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(Roll Call)   Menendez investigation that was first a bogus hit piece, then a nothingtoseehere, has now progressed to the plausible-deniability stage and will next become an "it's only bad when the other side does it" thing   (rollcall.com) divider line 53
    More: Followup, Target, Citizens for Responsibility, Foreign Relations Committee, Senate Ethics Committee, Melanie Sloan, investigation  
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1339 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Feb 2013 at 10:34 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-01 09:55:37 AM  
I went from the "pig should resign" to "this seems like a hoax".

Now I'm back to thinking it is real and the pig should resign (and be charged if there is a case).  Menendez admitting he traveled to Dominican Republic on this guy's plane adds some credibility to the other stuff.
 
2013-02-01 10:00:17 AM  

mrshowrules: I went from the "pig should resign" to "this seems like a hoax".

Now I'm back to thinking it is real and the pig should resign (and be charged if there is a case).  Menendez admitting he traveled to Dominican Republic on this guy's plane adds some credibility to the other stuff.



Read the NY Times article, I'm trying to decide myself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/01/nyregion/senator-menendezs-ties-to -p olitical-donor-are-scrutinized.html?hp&_r=0
 
2013-02-01 10:00:43 AM  
No... it's bad no matter who does it.
 
2013-02-01 10:05:25 AM  
Just for your information the "Mendendez Probe" will cost you about $150 US in the Dominican Republic.
 
2013-02-01 10:08:10 AM  

AlwaysRightBoy: mrshowrules: I went from the "pig should resign" to "this seems like a hoax".

Now I'm back to thinking it is real and the pig should resign (and be charged if there is a case).  Menendez admitting he traveled to Dominican Republic on this guy's plane adds some credibility to the other stuff.


Read the NY Times article, I'm trying to decide myself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/01/nyregion/senator-menendezs-ties-to -p olitical-donor-are-scrutinized.html?hp&_r=0


So, it looks like Menendez probably tipped Meglen to a contract in the DR.  That's a firin' and a few fraud charges.

Still completely unconvinced there is any truth to the sex w/underaged girls thing.  Lots of people go to DR--Punta Cana's been a popular travel destination for years.

/Have no particular opinion of Menendez one way or another
 
2013-02-01 10:11:33 AM  
"Obviously Menendez broke some ethics rules," Sloan said. "He took some flights that he didn't disclose as gifts. Now he's reimbursing personally so he doesn't have to disclose them."

Otter: Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests - we did.
[winks at Dean Wormer]
 
2013-02-01 10:16:21 AM  
He's a senator from Jersey - constituents are fist pumping happy about what he's done.  He's living up exactly to Jersey's expectations.
 
2013-02-01 10:41:57 AM  
Do an investigation and punish him appropriately if he did committee crimes.
 
2013-02-01 10:44:01 AM  

brigid_fitch: So, it looks like Menendez probably tipped Meglen to a contract in the DR.  That's a firin' and a few fraud charges.

Still completely unconvinced there is any truth to the sex w/underaged girls thing.  Lots of people go to DR--Punta Cana's been a popular travel destination for years.

/Have no particular opinion of Menendez one way or another


Seconded.  Considering the (at the moment) dearth of evidence on the underage girl thing I'll holdoff my outrage, but it still looks like crooked politicians are crooked.

For now, it kinda feels like conservatives are gonna Benghazi this, and take a legitimate issue only to invent a scandal on top of it just to make it look even worse, but really only hurting themselves.  Just because when one of their guys gets caught coming back from the DR he's accused of sexual improprieties (hint: unprescribed viagra).

Can his ass and charge him.  If overwhelming evidence comes out on the other stuff, I'd vote to castrate him too.
 
2013-02-01 10:44:25 AM  

brigid_fitch: Still completely unconvinced there is any truth to the sex w/underaged girls thing


I haven't heard any truth to this either. If the Times article is correct, that's pretty damning.
 
2013-02-01 10:44:45 AM  

bradkanus: He's a senator from Jersey - constituents are fist pumping happy about what he's done.  He's living up exactly to Jersey's expectations.


To be fair, people in NJ are constantly fist pumping. That's how they say hello.
 
2013-02-01 10:49:06 AM  
Right in the frickin headline it says "Ethics Watchdog Believes Menendez is Probe Target." Personally I believe Melanie Sloan is a Communist. . It's what I believe. I have no more evidence of that than she does of Menendez's wrong-doing, but if her unsupported beliefs are worthy of repeating, why not mine? Again, if these allegations are true, Menendez should pay the price. But so long as the accusations are anonymous and unsuported by any evidence they are undeserving of attention.
 
2013-02-01 10:51:40 AM  
call-of-duty-facts.wikispaces.com

MENENDEZ!
 
2013-02-01 10:58:38 AM  

HypnozombieX: [call-of-duty-facts.wikispaces.com image 283x300]

MENENDEZ!


24.media.tumblr.com
MENENDEZZES!
 
2013-02-01 11:02:18 AM  
Ah, is this another thread where Fark Independents and Right Wing Themed Troll accounts just make up their own reality when EVERY LEFTIST (which is every person who isn't them) on the WORLD were all blindly defending this guy?
 
2013-02-01 11:16:40 AM  

Car_Ramrod: bradkanus: He's a senator from Jersey - constituents are fist pumping happy about what he's done.  He's living up exactly to Jersey's expectations.

To be fair, people from Staten Island and Long Island in NJ are constantly fist pumping. That's how they say hello.


Don't tarnish my state with those guido assholes from the other side of the Hudson.
 
2013-02-01 11:27:02 AM  
They seem to be downplaying the prostition angle on this -And have completely sanitized the underaged prostitues from the story line all togethor and are trying to make this scandel "Yea, he forgot to pay for 2 trips to the DR".

Hmmmm.
 
2013-02-01 11:28:33 AM  
Menendez on the Secret Service prostitution scandal of not so long ago:

"If the facts are true, they should all be fired"

Awkward.
 
2013-02-01 11:30:15 AM  

NeverDrunk23: Do an investigation and punish him appropriately if he did committee crimes.


The benchmark for a Senator to resign if to be convicted of a crime?  That is pretty horrible if that is the case.
 
2013-02-01 11:36:46 AM  
I don't know if it's accurate. There is a lot of hearsay on this one and not a lot of hard evidence. I think it's Menendez's time to go, personally, and I think Booker should win the primary, but considering he's been a decent public servant for so long and hasn't been a terrible blowhard, I'm not willing to call him a pedophile on the basis of nothing more than rumors. And that's all it is right now - rumors that maybe someone somewhere is doing an investigation. There's nothing particularly time-critical about it; there's no need to jump to conclusions.

If the investigation comes up with substantial evidence of wrongdoing, of course, then expel him and charge him.
 
2013-02-01 11:45:31 AM  

captainktainer: I don't know if it's accurate. There is a lot of hearsay on this one and not a lot of hard evidence. I think it's Menendez's time to go, personally, and I think Booker should win the primary, but considering he's been a decent public servant for so long and hasn't been a terrible blowhard, I'm not willing to call him a pedophile on the basis of nothing more than rumors. And that's all it is right now - rumors that maybe someone somewhere is doing an investigation. There's nothing particularly time-critical about it; there's no need to jump to conclusions.

If the investigation comes up with substantial evidence of wrongdoing, of course, then expel him and charge him.


You can hit a threshhold of wrongdoing before he is even charged with anything.

Being bribed with flights not even to mention cavorting with prostitutes (regardless of ages) should be grounds for a Senator to resign.
 
2013-02-01 11:55:51 AM  

captainktainer: I don't know if it's accurate. There is a lot of hearsay on this one and not a lot of hard evidence. I think it's Menendez's time to go, personally, and I think Booker should win the primary, but considering he's been a decent public servant for so long and hasn't been a terrible blowhard, I'm not willing to call him a pedophile on the basis of nothing more than rumors. And that's all it is right now - rumors that maybe someone somewhere is doing an investigation. There's nothing particularly time-critical about it; there's no need to jump to conclusions.


Booker wants Lautenberg's seat, not Menendez's. Menendez just got reelected.
 
2013-02-01 11:59:22 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Otter: Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests - we did.
[winks at Dean Wormer]


www.cyber-cinema.com
 
2013-02-01 12:04:41 PM  
Actually yes, Subbo. When you have republicans who try to force their strict morality laws down our throats and are later caught with a dead hooker or a live boy, it's not only a crime, it shows their disgusting hypocrisy towards society. As if they want US to live like a bunch of Teletubbies while they alone would be the only ones allowed to have any vices.

blog.tmcnet.com
 
2013-02-01 12:06:24 PM  
Yeah, I was in the Smells Like Bullshiat camp as well. Now it's moved over into There May Be Something to This, but it still has a whiff of BS about it.  We'll see. I'm not calling for his head yet, but the credibility of the accusations has certainly increased a bit
 
2013-02-01 12:08:12 PM  
Wait a second. Here's how I remember the scandal playing out:
Conservative Media November ~ Menendez had sex with underage prostitutes!!!!!
Conservative Media Now: Menedez took a private flight where he forgot/didn't pay for until he was captured.
 
2013-02-01 12:40:17 PM  

Komplex: Wait a second. Here's how I remember the scandal playing out:
Conservative Media November ~ Menendez had sex with underage prostitutes!!!!!
Conservative Media Now: Menedez took a private flight where he forgot/didn't pay for until he was captured.


The Daily Caller has not retracted its prostitution scandal story with the Melgen link.  They appear to be doubling down.  Other news sources are now reporting it.  The private flight stuff is just additional stinky details adding credence to the original Daily Caller story.
 
2013-02-01 12:42:41 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Yeah, I was in the Smells Like Bullshiat camp as well. Now it's moved over into There May Be Something to This, but it still has a whiff of BS about it.  We'll see. I'm not calling for his head yet, but the credibility of the accusations has certainly increased a bit


The free flights stuff seems pretty conclusive.  The prostitution thing is quickly becoming "well, well, what do we have here?" territory.
 
2013-02-01 12:44:20 PM  
Clearly, the fact that sometimes Democratic politicians do shiatty things can only lead to the conclusion that libtards have a terrible double standard unlike the noble conservatives and furthermore comma
 
2013-02-01 12:48:17 PM  
I said this the other day - even if Menendez did hire him some prostitutes, he should tell everyone to fark off so long as Sen. David Vitter is still a congressman in good standing.
 
2013-02-01 12:51:12 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: I said this the other day - even if Menendez did hire him some prostitutes, he should tell everyone to fark off so long as Sen. David Vitter is still a congressman in good standing.


Rationalizing something based on finding a worse example is no way to go through life.  I am disappoint.
 
2013-02-01 12:51:59 PM  
Is anyone here familiar with the group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington?

According to their website, they claim to be non-partisan group that actively works to "target government officials who sacrifice the common good to special interests."   And, based on the little bit I can find on them, they appear to actually be exactly that.

Are these people who deserve a donation?
 
2013-02-01 01:01:36 PM  

The Larch: Is anyone here familiar with the group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington?

According to their website, they claim to be non-partisan group that actively works to "target government officials who sacrifice the common good to special interests."   And, based on the little bit I can find on them, they appear to actually be exactly that.

Are these people who deserve a donation?


I think they are awesome.
 
2013-02-01 01:05:22 PM  
It seems to me that the real scandal is that a political donor put him on a private plane and flew him to a foreign country for a few days to participate in a hookerpalooza, in return for greasing the wheels on a five hundred million dollar government contract.

I mean, sure... I'm upset about the hookers too. Sex trafficking is bad. He shouldn't do that.

But I'm a hell of a lot more upset that five hundred million dollars.
 
2013-02-01 01:10:33 PM  

The Larch: It seems to me that the real scandal is that a political donor put him on a private plane and flew him to a foreign country for a few days to participate in a hookerpalooza, in return for greasing the wheels on a five hundred million dollar government contract.

I mean, sure... I'm upset about the hookers too. Sex trafficking is bad. He shouldn't do that.

But I'm a hell of a lot more upset that five hundred million dollars.


If they are under-aged it is also child-rape.  If this is not enough to have an angry mob of people with pitch forks outside his office, what is?
 
2013-02-01 01:11:51 PM  

mrshowrules: captainktainer: I don't know if it's accurate. There is a lot of hearsay on this one and not a lot of hard evidence. I think it's Menendez's time to go, personally, and I think Booker should win the primary, but considering he's been a decent public servant for so long and hasn't been a terrible blowhard, I'm not willing to call him a pedophile on the basis of nothing more than rumors. And that's all it is right now - rumors that maybe someone somewhere is doing an investigation. There's nothing particularly time-critical about it; there's no need to jump to conclusions.

If the investigation comes up with substantial evidence of wrongdoing, of course, then expel him and charge him.

You can hit a threshhold of wrongdoing before he is even charged with anything.

Being bribed with flights not even to mention cavorting with prostitutes (regardless of ages) should be grounds for a Senator to resign.


I seriously think the prostitution/underage thing is just made-up BS from the right.  Limbaugh goes to the DR and gets detained w/unprescribed viagra.  Rumor mill starts about him going there to sleep w/underage boys.  3+ years later, the Breitbart wannabes are all like, "Look--Menendez went to the DR.  He OBVIOUSLY went there to sleep w/prostitutes!"

There's a big difference--Menendez wasn't caught w/Viagra and apparently had dealings w/companies in the DR.  The only real question is if those dealings were in order to commit fraud or not.  "Forgetting" to claim flights on your campaign finances is a violation, yes, but small potatoes in today's political climate.  Not condoning or excusing him, just pointing out that, on its own, a couple of free flights is hardly worth the media attention it's getting.   If the right-wing hadn't started the whole prostitution thing in retaliation for Rush, we probably wouldn't even be hearing about all of this until the investigation was almost over.
 
2013-02-01 01:24:05 PM  

brigid_fitch: mrshowrules: captainktainer: I don't know if it's accurate. There is a lot of hearsay on this one and not a lot of hard evidence. I think it's Menendez's time to go, personally, and I think Booker should win the primary, but considering he's been a decent public servant for so long and hasn't been a terrible blowhard, I'm not willing to call him a pedophile on the basis of nothing more than rumors. And that's all it is right now - rumors that maybe someone somewhere is doing an investigation. There's nothing particularly time-critical about it; there's no need to jump to conclusions.

If the investigation comes up with substantial evidence of wrongdoing, of course, then expel him and charge him.

You can hit a threshhold of wrongdoing before he is even charged with anything.

Being bribed with flights not even to mention cavorting with prostitutes (regardless of ages) should be grounds for a Senator to resign.

I seriously think the prostitution/underage thing is just made-up BS from the right.  Limbaugh goes to the DR and gets detained w/unprescribed viagra.  Rumor mill starts about him going there to sleep w/underage boys.  3+ years later, the Breitbart wannabes are all like, "Look--Menendez went to the DR.  He OBVIOUSLY went there to sleep w/prostitutes!"

There's a big difference--Menendez wasn't caught w/Viagra and apparently had dealings w/companies in the DR.  The only real question is if those dealings were in order to commit fraud or not.  "Forgetting" to claim flights on your campaign finances is a violation, yes, but small potatoes in today's political climate.  Not condoning or excusing him, just pointing out that, on its own, a couple of free flights is hardly worth the media attention it's getting.   If the right-wing hadn't started the whole prostitution thing in retaliation for Rush, we probably wouldn't even be hearing about all of this until the investigation was almost over.


I thought it was real.  Then looked into it further and thought it was a pure hoax.  Now I think there is something to it again.

It reminds my of Anthony Weiner thing.  Even a broken clock can be right once and awhile.

For a hoax, you take a bunch of unrelated things and cobble them together.  When its real, you provide what you have and later a whole bunch of things slowing start coming out that line up with it.

It seems the latter is happening in this case.
 
2013-02-01 01:48:39 PM  
I think there is a pretty boring scandal here involving free travel and political connections and doing favor for friends, and Menendez won't get disciplined for it, because most other Senators do the same thing.

There are allegations of a much more titillating scandal involving prostitutes (which wouldn't be illegal) who might be underage (which would). But at this point the allegations are essentially hearsay from a single source.
 
2013-02-01 01:52:43 PM  
Dominican Republican? I'll take remedial journalism for $200, Alex.
 
2013-02-01 01:54:00 PM  

Gulper Eel: Menendez on the Secret Service prostitution scandal of not so long ago:
"If the facts are true, they should all be fired"
Awkward.


There is a significant difference in that the Secret Service agents were traveling as representatives of the United States (in other words, they were working).
Menendez was traveling as a private citizen (he was on vacation, according to the NYT story).

It's still hypocritical.
 
2013-02-01 02:00:05 PM  
He brings a special level of personal experience to the position of Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee
 
2013-02-01 02:38:53 PM  
I thought it was BS at first but now I want to know the truth.

Don't be an ass though, subby. Nobody here is going to say "child prostitution is only bad when republicans do it."
 
2013-02-01 02:48:38 PM  

Moosecakes: I thought it was BS at first but now I want to know the truth.

Don't be an ass though, subby. Nobody here is going to say "child prostitution is only bad when republicans do it."


Not to fight the Conservatives battle for them but the assumption that Limbaugh was banging boys versus "I will believe Menendez did it when he is successfully convicted" would, in theory, be a double-standard.
 
2013-02-01 03:06:03 PM  

mrshowrules: If they are under-aged it is also child-rape.  If this is not enough to have an angry mob of people with pitch forks outside his office, what is?


Look, I really, really, really don't want to defend the guy. But everything I've read linking this guy to underage prostitutes has been written in the form "Since we have no idea who the prostitutes might be, is it possible that he's sleeping with underage prostitutes?  I mean, we're just asking questions, not making accusations, but you have to wonder..."
 
2013-02-01 03:07:06 PM  

mrshowrules: Not to fight the Conservatives battle for them but the assumption that Limbaugh was banging boys versus "I will believe Menendez did it when he is successfully convicted" would, in theory, be a double-standard.


Well, if it makes you feel better, I don't plan on voting for either of them in the next election.
 
2013-02-01 03:42:34 PM  

The Larch: It seems to me that the real scandal is that a political donor put him on a private plane and flew him to a foreign country for a few days to participate in a hookerpalooza, in return for greasing the wheels on a five hundred million dollar government contract.

I mean, sure... I'm upset about the hookers too. Sex trafficking is bad. He shouldn't do that.

But I'm a hell of a lot more upset that five hundred million dollars.


$500 million? Meh. That's only 0.93 Solyndras. Chump change.
 
2013-02-01 04:40:17 PM  

The Larch: mrshowrules: If they are under-aged it is also child-rape.  If this is not enough to have an angry mob of people with pitch forks outside his office, what is?

Look, I really, really, really don't want to defend the guy. But everything I've read linking this guy to underage prostitutes has been written in the form "Since we have no idea who the prostitutes might be, is it possible that he's sleeping with underage prostitutes?  I mean, we're just asking questions, not making accusations, but you have to wonder..."


at first you had a video tape of two prostitutes being interviewed, a bunch of E-mails and a scanned document of an FBI interview and a story on the Daily Caller with a bunch of details (this eye-doctor guy, the resort, stuff like that).

All could be fake but it would have to be someone with a heck of alot of time on their hands and no other hobbies. I was leaning hoax.  Fake FBI documents, fake E-mail and someone paying these girls to say something on camera.  All easy shiat to pull off and sources were super sketchy.  Menendez not even commenting on it because it was so crazy.  Which would indicate that was likely all made up.

Then, the FBI raid on the doctor.  That's too much of a coincidence.  That makes the E-mails and the interview transcript instantly more credible.

Then admitting the flights to the Dominican Republic in his plane (only the Daily Caller was talking about this before).  Granted that are a right-wing rag but have they actually made up this level of shiat before?  Dangerous legally to do this if you don't at least have some proof.

If parts of the story become revealed as true, the likelihood of the entire story on the Daily Caller being true increases dramatically.  It reminds me so much of Weiner-Gate.
 
2013-02-01 05:03:33 PM  

mrshowrules: Moosecakes: I thought it was BS at first but now I want to know the truth.

Don't be an ass though, subby. Nobody here is going to say "child prostitution is only bad when republicans do it."

Not to fight the Conservatives battle for them but the assumption that Limbaugh was banging boys versus "I will believe Menendez did it when he is successfully convicted" would, in theory, be a double-standard.


For the record, I don't think there's a credible reason to believe Limbaugh was having sex with underage boys, either.  There is good reason (the smuggled Viagra) to believe he was having sex, and went on the trip planning to have sex, that he wouldn't want people to know about, but unless I missed something, there's no evidence for who he was planning to have sex  with.  It could've been any of the following:

* Underage girl prostitutes
* Of-age male prostitutes
* Of-age female prostitutes
* A secret lover from when he was younger
* Some other conservative man who he was meeting on the QT to avoid the American press

Or none of them, and it's something else entirely.  I think "underage boys" was chosen as the line because (a) it's something that exists in the DR, and (b) it's the most unflattering one.
 
2013-02-01 05:55:43 PM  

mrshowrules: The Larch: It seems to me that the real scandal is that a political donor put him on a private plane and flew him to a foreign country for a few days to participate in a hookerpalooza, in return for greasing the wheels on a five hundred million dollar government contract.

I mean, sure... I'm upset about the hookers too. Sex trafficking is bad. He shouldn't do that.

But I'm a hell of a lot more upset that five hundred million dollars.

If they are under-aged it is also child-rape.  If this is not enough to have an angry mob of people with pitch forks outside his office, what is?


I'm still leaning toward the "under-aged prostitute" angle being the made-up part. Possibly the prostitute angle entirely. So far, the only evidence for that seems to be an interview with anonymous Dominican prostitutes at the paragon of impartiality that is The Daily Caller. Cue "seems legit.jpg."

The rest of it...well, it's definitely shady, but I reckon 75% of congressmen on both sides of the aisle have done something equally bad. I won't be upset if he gets punished for it, but I won't get upset if he doesn't either.

If it is revealed that he used prostitutes, but they were of legal age, I'd really like to see him say "I'll resign if Vitter resigns." At least in the DR prostitution's not a crime.
 
2013-02-01 07:16:49 PM  

Krieghund: Menendez was traveling as a private citizen (he was on vacation, according to the NYT story).


That didn't work for Eliot Spitzer and I don't think it'd work for Menendez.
 
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