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(Sydney Morning Herald)   New study shows that vegetarians are 32% less likely to suffer from heart disease, 96% more likely to be insufferable   (smh.com.au) divider line 91
    More: Interesting, heart disease, clinical nutrition, Cancer Research UK, World Health Organisation, moral argument  
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1637 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Feb 2013 at 2:46 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-01 12:28:16 AM  
More like 128%, least for Americans. The Indians I know (quite a lot) manage to pull it off without the insufferability vibe.
 
2013-02-01 01:34:28 AM  
172% more likely to fart all the time and look vaguely sick and malnourished
 
2013-02-01 02:07:00 AM  
News Flash: Vegetarians who claim that being a vegetarian makes you healthy lead lives with healthy habits.
 
2013-02-01 02:50:37 AM  

vossiewulf: More like 128%, least for Americans. The Indians I know (quite a lot) manage to pull it off without the insufferability vibe.


Most vegetarians in the world are cauliflower curry loving peoples in India.  I live in a neighbourhood with many of them. Almost all their meals are made from scratch, at home, with plenty of fresh vegetables and spices.
 
2013-02-01 02:50:54 AM  
Newsflash: 78% of vegetarians aren't vegetarians.

/ yup, grew that salmon in my garden
 
2013-02-01 02:52:51 AM  
Work with quite a few Indian engineers who are vegetarian, and not a one of them is the least bit uppity about it. Had a conversation or two about it, started by me, talking about cultural differences and such and asking about how they manage to do it. Ive made red bean and lentil curry with naan a time or two for pitch ins for them. They appreciated it.
 
2013-02-01 03:04:22 AM  
Rufus Lee King:

Seriously, I admire Indian culture for that. I'd like to go vegetarian myself, but it seems to take more spiritual fortitude than I've got.


Na, as far as diet, spirit means zero. If you grow up vegetarian, the smell of most cooked meat or seafood will seam unattractive, sometimes offensive.

Though, some vegetarian dishes that I will never touch and make me want to vomit smell far worse than Barbecue which smellis mostly like smoke and burnt tomatoes.
 
2013-02-01 03:04:26 AM  
When you show me a 150 year old vegan, I'll give up the cute little animals for dinner. Deal?
 
2013-02-01 03:08:56 AM  
But seriously, vegetarians, you, too, are living off of death and killing.

I have heard the screams of the broccoli as it is cruelly harvested/cut from the stalk, the weeping of the grains as their seed/progeny are striped from them and ground into flour.

Every bit as brutal as a charnel house.
 
2013-02-01 03:09:59 AM  
32 + 96 is more than 100, idiot subby.
 
2013-02-01 03:10:01 AM  

Rufus Lee King: Bippal: Work with quite a few Indian engineers who are vegetarian, and not a one of them is the least bit uppity about it. Had a conversation or two about it, started by me, talking about cultural differences and such and asking about how they manage to do it. Ive made red bean and lentil curry with naan a time or two for pitch ins for them. They appreciated it.

Seriously, I admire Indian culture for that. I'd like to go vegetarian myself, but it seems to take more spiritual fortitude than I've got.


Yeah, it's great. Except for the whole gang rape thing.
 
2013-02-01 03:12:07 AM  

fusillade762: Yeah, it's great. Except for the whole gang rape thing.


If all you ate was variations on chickpeas and curry, you'd get gang-rapey too.
 
2013-02-01 03:14:06 AM  
I like to think I am a live and let live sort of guy. Vegetarians and vegans don't bother me as long as they aren't pushy and condescending, which most of them aren't. I also dislike the sort who act all gung ho about their meat eating and come into these threads and are just as pushy as those they complain about.

I like meat and unless the elixir of immortality involves giving it up I won't. One of the most enjoyable things in life for me is sitting around meat cooking over an open flame with good company and good beer.
 
2013-02-01 03:22:00 AM  
Have they done any studies regarding the long-term effects of only eating vegetarians?
 
2013-02-01 03:22:52 AM  
<i>The researchers followed almost 45,000 adults, one-third of them vegetarians, for an average of 11.5 years and accounted for factors such as their age, whether they smoked, alcohol consumption, physical activity, education and socio-economic background, according to the study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. </i>

"Accounted for factors"... except what they are eating, outside of "not meat".  They're not claiming meat is the cause, only that meat eaters are more likely... which still leaves a lot unanswered.  And shame on them for not providing the full reference info.  The article isn't in the most recent issue of AJCN.  They don't even say what population they're studying or how they are defining heart disease.
 
2013-02-01 03:28:22 AM  
Vegetarians are 32 per cent less likely to be hospitalised or die from heart disease than people who eat meat and fish, scientists at England's Oxford University say.

My problem with this is that they are putting big macs and fresh flounder in the same category.
 
2013-02-01 03:29:33 AM  
Anyway, Indian sweets are friggin' delicious. Mmmmm coconut, pistachios, and cardamom.
 
2013-02-01 03:30:19 AM  
One of my roommates was a bad vegetarian, her most frequent meal was cheese pizza and popcorn. It made my heart hurt looking at it. No veggies often. Conversely, my other roommate (same year) couldn't cook worth anything but attempted to and ate things like tomato soup and pseudo healthy things. I think it helped she was raised vegetarian. 

So basically, I have nothing.

I ate vegetarian this week (like that was my intention) and I have eaten both good and bad. I may try vegan sometime next month. Vegetarian is easy but vegan is hard man. I like cheese a lot and even though I don't eat eggs too much I always want them when I attempt 'vegan' for a while.

My heart probably sucks though because cheese, eggs (unless they're good for you this time round?), and occasional fried foods like chicken. Mmm. chicken.
 
2013-02-01 03:39:14 AM  

Rufus Lee King: miniflea: I like meat and unless the elixir of immortality involves giving it up I won't. One of the most enjoyable things in life for me is sitting around meat cooking over an open flame with good company and good beer.

Oh, I can dig it. I'd still like some prasadam, though. Hare Krishna, y'all.


To be perfectly clear, there is plenty of vegetarian stuff I like. Indian food Im not too familiar with but the few things I have tried I enjoyed quite a bit.
 
2013-02-01 03:45:13 AM  

manwithplanx: News Flash: Vegetarians who claim that being a vegetarian makes you healthy lead lives with healthy habits.


TFA stated this was accounted for.  Like it or not vegetarians ARE healthier and insufferable.
 
2013-02-01 03:51:14 AM  
Vegetarians are only healthier because those pussies actually give a toss as to what goes in their bodies. The rest of (most of us) eat whatever is slower then we are.

/But they're still insufferable prigs about it.
//Personally I'm a vaginatarian. ///Which I guess makes me a pussy as well via the 'you are what you eat' property.
////But at least I'm marginally less insufferable.
//Five, five slashies, MWAHAHA.
 
2013-02-01 03:52:34 AM  

Smgth: The rest of (most of us) eat whatever is slower then we are.


That is why I feast on the innards of retarded people.
 
2013-02-01 03:57:01 AM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Smgth: The rest of (most of us) eat whatever is slower then we are.

That is why I feast on the innards of retarded people.


I would have thought the young and corpulent. Doesn't seem like a decent diet. The young probably are all too soft and provide little meat, the corpulent probably offer a better harvest but how much tallow does one truly need?

/does not eat mammal
//Only way see that of changing is 'apocalypse'
///see plan 5b: cannibalism
 
2013-02-01 04:00:51 AM  
Some vegetarians I know always seem to be sick more often than other people. Same can be said for people that seemingly make it a point to exercise and eat right all the time.
Never did understand that.

People can be vegetarians all they want but I don't want to have a conversation with you about it as you spout off your righteous diatribe. I put that on the same level as people that want to show you their baby pictures. I absolutely do.not.care.

/Yes, I am fun at parties. Why do you ask?
 
2013-02-01 04:10:22 AM  

miniflea: . Vegetarians and vegans don't bother me as long as they aren't pushy and condescending, which most of them aren't. I also dislike the sort who act all gung ho about their meat eating and come into these threads and are just as pushy as those they complain about.


Like every other fark vegetarian thread, this will consist of 100 or more people insulting and belittling vegetarians, all while paradoxically claiming vegetarians act uppity.  There will, like every other thread, be a few polite vegetarians who will never, even once, insult the omnivores.  It's weird.
 
2013-02-01 04:30:45 AM  
When you correct for portion size, age, activity level, genetic tendency, and so on, you find that there's no difference in heart disease between americans (and therefore, likely everyone else) who are differentiated by omnivorous vs. vegetarian lifestyles.

The issue is largely self-selective.

People with a greater focus on health, who tend to maintain a reasonable weight, exercise, and so on are more likely to be vegetarians in a developed nation because it is incorrectly attributed as a more healthy lifestyle. Therefore, more people who would otherwise already be healthy choose a vegetarian lifestyle and mistake correlation for causation.

This would be like claiming that since all the people at the Democratic National Convention hall are democrats, that holding such a convention makes people into democrats.

This type irrational attribution happens all the time.

Another example: motorcycle helmet laws are usually based on statistics that say accidents involving riders without helmets were 4x (or more) likely to result in a serious injury or death. The helmet wasn't itself saving that many lives, rather it was self selective behavior - people who were more focused on safety, and thus got into less accidents or had less severe accidents tended to wear helmets, while those who drove with more risk tended to get into more accidents of a more deadly nature.

If you're going to be a vegetarian, do it for justifiable reasons, like morality or conservation.
 
2013-02-01 04:36:29 AM  
As a vegetarian every time I go out to eat in a group I have to justify myself to overly defensive meat-eaters. In my experience the amount of militant meat eaters massively dwarfs the amount of militant vegetarians (and they are generally short term ones who quit after 3 months).

Also what is it with dog threads? The minute someone is mean to a dog everyone is clamouring for their heads, then spend a few hundred posts bashing the sort of people who are against animal abuse?
 

And everyone hates Peta.
 
2013-02-01 04:37:23 AM  

quietwalker: Another example: motorcycle helmet laws are usually based on statistics that say accidents involving riders without helmets were 4x (or more) likely to result in a serious injury or death. The helmet wasn't itself saving that many lives, rather it was self selective behavior - people who were more focused on safety, and thus got into less accidents or had less severe accidents tended to wear helmets, while those who drove with more risk tended to get into more accidents of a more deadly nature.


I would like to see some relevant statistics on this. While the helmet itself may have not been saving four or more times the lives, it's certainly better to have cushioned plastic hitting the pavement instead of your skull. It's doing some significant life-saving for those skulls that do end up crashing into vehicle windshields.
 
2013-02-01 04:41:07 AM  

meep3d: Also what is it with dog threads? The minute someone is mean to a dog everyone is clamouring for their heads, then spend a few hundred posts bashing the sort of people who are against animal abuse?


people love dogs. It really is that simple.
 
2013-02-01 04:41:28 AM  

quietwalker: When you correct for portion size, age, activity level, genetic tendency, and so on, you find that there's no difference in heart disease between americans (and therefore, likely everyone else) who are differentiated by omnivorous vs. vegetarian lifestyles.

The issue is largely self-selective.

People with a greater focus on health, who tend to maintain a reasonable weight, exercise, and so on are more likely to be vegetarians in a developed nation because it is incorrectly attributed as a more healthy lifestyle. Therefore, more people who would otherwise already be healthy choose a vegetarian lifestyle and mistake correlation for causation.

This would be like claiming that since all the people at the Democratic National Convention hall are democrats, that holding such a convention makes people into democrats.

This type irrational attribution happens all the time.

Another example: motorcycle helmet laws are usually based on statistics that say accidents involving riders without helmets were 4x (or more) likely to result in a serious injury or death. The helmet wasn't itself saving that many lives, rather it was self selective behavior - people who were more focused on safety, and thus got into less accidents or had less severe accidents tended to wear helmets, while those who drove with more risk tended to get into more accidents of a more deadly nature.

If you're going to be a vegetarian, do it for justifiable reasons, like morality or conservation.



Incredibly well put.  But there is no justifiable reason for what is simply a lifestyle choice. One's morality is not another's and some of the best conservationist are avid hunter and meat eaters, they want their game to be around and health for generations to come to pass on a sport and a traditional link to our food.
 
2013-02-01 04:42:18 AM  

FunkOut: Most vegetarians in the world are cauliflower curry loving peoples in India. I live in a neighbourhood with many of them. Almost all their meals are made from scratch, at home, with plenty of fresh vegetables and spices.


My Indian neighbor has been showing me how to make curries and rotis and chutney from scratch. Good homecooked Indian is some of the best food on the planet. Her curried peas almost brought me to tears they were so good.
 
2013-02-01 04:43:19 AM  

log_jammin: meep3d: Also what is it with dog threads? The minute someone is mean to a dog everyone is clamouring for their heads, then spend a few hundred posts bashing the sort of people who are against animal abuse?

people love dogs. It really is that simple.


I don't. Hate the things, streets round mine are covered in dog shiat.  Maybe I should eat only dog.
 
2013-02-01 04:44:48 AM  
It is the vegan variety of vegetarian which is the most insufferable.  Those who eat dairy and eggs are not so bad.
 
2013-02-01 04:48:02 AM  

meep3d: I don't.


you're weird then.
 
2013-02-01 04:53:09 AM  

log_jammin: meep3d: I don't.

you're weird then.


I don't really see the difference between a pet dog and a pet goat, they each have their own personalities - dogs just tend to be needy, yappy and annoying. It's largely for that reason I choose not to eat them. From a moral standpoint if you think it's 'wrong' to eat dog, you shouldn't eat any other animals.
 
2013-02-01 05:05:49 AM  

meep3d: I don't really see the difference between a pet dog and a pet goat


I do.

we domesticated dogs something like 30,000 years ago. and not because we thought they were tasty, but because both species found the relationship to be mutually beneficial. Mankind in a sense back a part of the dogs pack just as much as they became a part of ours. and right up until today that relations ship continues.

goats were domesticated for food leather and whatever parts of the animal we could use.


meep3d: From a moral standpoint if you think it's 'wrong' to eat dog, you shouldn't eat any other animals.


from that standpoint you shouldn't eat any animals unless your willing to eat humans as well. unless you're saying humans are a "special" animal.
 
2013-02-01 05:18:50 AM  

log_jammin: meep3d: I don't really see the difference between a pet dog and a pet goat

I do.

we domesticated dogs something like 30,000 years ago. and not because we thought they were tasty, but because both species found the relationship to be mutually beneficial. Mankind in a sense back a part of the dogs pack just as much as they became a part of ours. and right up until today that relations ship continues.

goats were domesticated for food leather and whatever parts of the animal we could use.


meep3d: From a moral standpoint if you think it's 'wrong' to eat dog, you shouldn't eat any other animals.

from that standpoint you shouldn't eat any animals unless your willing to eat humans as well. unless you're saying humans are a "special" animal.


Animals are 'lesser creatures' not capable of what we think of as higher thought, which humans are not. And I see your 'dog pack' argument, but in reality that has not been the case for generations for the majority of people (the beneficial part).  People keep dogs and cats because they are cute and fun (to them). Other people keep other animals of all stripes for the same reason.  Thus you can make a personal judgement about eating/cruelty to dogs, but saying someone else being cruel to dogs is immoral isn't rational as the special protection afforded to dogs is relevant only to you.
 
2013-02-01 05:21:57 AM  
"vegetarian", isn't that Proto-Afroasiatic for "bad hunter"?
 
2013-02-01 05:23:11 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: My Indian neighbor has been showing me how to make curries and rotis and chutney from scratch. Good homecooked Indian is some of the best food on the planet. Her curried peas almost brought me to tears they were so good.


Cauliflower and okra...Indians do that shiat like they came down from heaven just to make it for you.
If I had to give up on murdering animals, I would need to be living near some Indian restaurants and food stores.
 
2013-02-01 05:29:32 AM  
I have been a vegetarian since I was 12. And it was hard being a vegetarian while also HATING vegetarian/vegans in high school and university when it got trendy.

My diet does not automatically make me an anarccho-feminist, you douches!

//vegan chocolate cake is tasty, though.
 
2013-02-01 05:35:27 AM  

meep3d: Animals are 'lesser creatures' not capable of what we think of as higher thought, which humans are not.


and as we beings of higher thoiught have brought dogs into our homes as friends and companions, yet not goats, I would say we are morally justified to eat one and not the other.

meep3d: (the beneficial part).


you see no benefite in a companion who loves you non judgmentally? who is always happy to see you and never nags you about your faults? There's a reason pets, especially cats and dogs are used as therapy for some people.

meep3d: hus you can make a personal judgement about eating/cruelty to dogs, but saying someone else being cruel to dogs is immoral isn't rational as the special protection afforded to dogs is relevant only to you.


It's not relevant only to me. It's relivant to the vast majority of people. which is why you see hundreds of posts where "The minute someone is mean to a dog everyone is clamouring for their heads, "

sorry my friend, but you are most decidedly in the minority on this.
 
2013-02-01 05:37:52 AM  
"benefite"??
 
2013-02-01 05:53:18 AM  

SpdrJay: Have they done any studies regarding the long-term effects of only eating vegetarians?


Well, for one one thing, it make you a weakass in no time flat!
 
2013-02-01 06:10:19 AM  

quietwalker: When you correct for portion size, age, activity level, genetic tendency, and so on, you find that there's no difference in heart disease between americans (and therefore, likely everyone else) who are differentiated by omnivorous vs. vegetarian lifestyles.

This type irrational attribution happens all the time.

Another example: motorcycle helmet laws are usually based on statistics that say accidents involving riders without helmets were 4x (or more) likely to result in a serious injury or death. The helmet wasn't itself saving that many lives, rather it was self selective behavior - people who were more focused on safety, and thus got into less accidents or had less severe accidents tended to wear helmets, while those who drove with more risk tended to get into more accidents of a more deadly nature.

If you're going to be a vegetarian, do it for justifiable reasons, like morality or conservation.


The intent of the study was to take  sample of a 'typical' population.   When you say things like '...correcting for age or genetic tendency..' that really defeats the purpose of the study.   I.e. Well 18% of the people in the study died of heart disease, but they were really old or had parents who had heart disease, so we are just going to exclude them.

I am certainly not vegetarian for morality or conservation issues, but it's because I enjoy the food and it honestly makes me feel better.  I still cook meat / eggs for the rest of the family, and it works out just fine.   However, I can honestly say that my health and overall fitness has improved as a result of my dietary changes.    This is after I was already very strict with the types of foods I was eating, and activity level has stayed consistent.

Your motorcycle is equally as ridiculous, but perhaps saved for another thread.
 
2013-02-01 06:22:06 AM  

FunkOut: vossiewulf: More like 128%, least for Americans. The Indians I know (quite a lot) manage to pull it off without the insufferability vibe.

Most vegetarians in the world are cauliflower curry loving peoples in India.  I live in a neighbourhood with many of them. Almost all their meals are made from scratch, at home, with plenty of fresh vegetables and spices.


And if I run out of cumin in the middle of making a rocking vindaloo, I know who has some.

/I know at least 6 vegetarians who are so for various reasons and none of them are jerks about it
 
2013-02-01 06:33:59 AM  
Only 32%? fark that. So not worth it.
 
2013-02-01 06:34:40 AM  

log_jammin: meep3d: I don't really see the difference between a pet dog and a pet goat

I do.

we domesticated dogs something like 30,000 years ago. and not because we thought they were tasty, but because both species found the relationship to be mutually beneficial. Mankind in a sense back a part of the dogs pack just as much as they became a part of ours. and right up until today that relations ship continues.

goats were domesticated for food leather and whatever parts of the animal we could use.


meep3d: From a moral standpoint if you think it's 'wrong' to eat dog, you shouldn't eat any other animals.

from that standpoint you shouldn't eat any animals unless your willing to eat humans as well. unless you're saying humans are a "special" animal.


What the hell is "food leather"? You making edible shoes?!?!

Genius!
 
2013-02-01 06:37:16 AM  

jaybeezey: What the hell is "food leather"?


heaven, my fiend. pure heaven...
 
2013-02-01 06:40:46 AM  
Obligatory song lyrics:


"look, let me make something
abundantly clear for people
that are so bereft of activities
they feel like they gotta comment on mine.
first of all being a vegetarian should
never be associated with being
a revolutionary or being open-minded.
that's a dietary choice.
if someone wants to proliferate the
type of ignorance we're supposed to
be fighting by thinking that,
you're just farking yourself.
i don't go around promoting
beef and pultry shoving it in
people's faces.
i don't castigate people for not
eating steak sandwiches;
and i would never diss someone
for being a farking broccoli-head,
or living off of radishes,
or eating grass or tofu.
i like a lot of vegan cuisine.
but the illogicality of expecting
everyone to adopt their particular
idea of what being healthy is
is just preposterous.
i've seen some of you herbivores;
and if you want to argue health,
y'all need to eat some kind of supplement
because some of y'all are so skinny
that it's disgusting; looking like the
only hip-hop motherfarkers on schindler's list.
being a malnutrition-ass got nothing to do
with being revolutionary or being on-point.
i'll be damned if i let somebody else push
their agenda on me. you know i don't eat pork,
not because i'm a muslim, i just don't
really like it, but i really will
fark a bird up. and fish is good
when that shiat is fresh. it's like my nubian
Vast Aire from Can Ox said. if you don't like
the smell of burning meat, well then get
the fark off the planet. you know i don't
criticize people for eating moss,
then don't open your farking mouth
about my food, man. i like beef
and broccoli motherfarker. mind
your god-damn business. matter of fact...
you know what? i'm out. i feel like some
arroz con pollo, a banana daiquiri, and
a motherfarking bistec aponado."

/immortal technique FTW
 
2013-02-01 06:42:42 AM  

log_jammin: my fiend


fark it. I'm out.
 
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