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(io9)   Twelve things that ruined Superman   (io9.com) divider line 142
    More: Interesting, Superman, Dawson's Creek, comic book creator, Man of Steel, Superboy, Leaning Tower of Pisa, Brandon Routh, Martha Kent  
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10913 clicks; posted to Geek » on 31 Jan 2013 at 8:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-31 06:42:40 PM
img.gawkerassets.com
say what now?
 
2013-01-31 06:45:07 PM
13. Obama

~O'Reilly
 
2013-01-31 06:45:22 PM
Counting or not counting that Superman is a lame superhero in the first place?
 
2013-01-31 06:55:13 PM
I find 99% of Superman stuff to be horribly boring. BUT the one piece of Superman media that I do love (and will watch anytime) is when he finally gets to unleash all his power and deliver an epic beatdown to Darkseid.

That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am!

Youtube
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-01-31 06:59:08 PM
The only Superman worth watching/reading/etc is the one in Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.
 
2013-01-31 07:00:20 PM
I'll defend the use of Drunk-Ass Superman in Superman III.

Other than that... meh.
 
2013-01-31 07:10:45 PM
www.iep.utm.edu

"The most grievous being his lack of an uber mustache."
 
2013-01-31 07:38:33 PM

wee: The only Superman worth watching/reading/etc is the one in Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.


That's got one of my favorite Superman moments: when he rips the top off the Batmobile and finds Robin inside. "Isn't it a school night?"
 
2013-01-31 08:18:33 PM
1. Superman III
2-10.Superman IV: The Quest For Peace
11. Superman Returns
12. The New 52
 
2013-01-31 08:20:23 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-31 08:24:42 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: [Drunk-Ass Superman drinking]


You are now my favorite person in the world for the next hour.
 
2013-01-31 08:24:56 PM
The only Superman analysis/critique worth reading was written over 40 years ago, and it's right here:  http://www.rawbw.com/~svw/superman.html
 
2013-01-31 08:35:47 PM
I'm torn.

It has some legit stuff like JMS run and Smallville, but it has incredibly idiotic mind-numbing stuff such as "he flies" or "Lois Lane" that I can't take this bulls*** seriously. Par for the course with Gawker.
 
2013-01-31 08:39:31 PM
The animated series ruined Superman as well, because it was such a huge success that nothing else could really compare to it. If you want to see a great version of Superman watch the animated movie The Dark Knight Returns Part 2. I liked it even better than The Dark Knight Rises.
 
2013-01-31 08:41:33 PM

scottydoesntknow: I find 99% of Superman stuff to be horribly boring. BUT the one piece of Superman media that I do love (and will watch anytime) is when he finally gets to unleash all his power and deliver an epic beatdown to Darkseid.

That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am!

Youtube


The whole Timm/Dini animated canon is just plain awesome, but JLU might be the most awesome of the awesome.  I'm of the opinion that JLU Season 2, taken as a whole, is one of the greatest superhero stories ever told.
 
2013-01-31 08:42:41 PM
13.  Superman takes up horse back riding.
 
2013-01-31 08:45:38 PM

NeedlesslyCanadian: Counting or not counting that Superman is a lame superhero in the first place?


This.  I never saw the appeal of the character.  Every bit of it is flawed.  Ridiculous underwear on the outside costume with unnecessary cape, a secret identity a fetus in a jar could figure out, piled on attributes and backstory, more powers, last survivor of Krypton becomes one of many, different kinds of Kryptonite for different effects, some truly horrible villains, powers that make the JLA obsolete but he still joins..and on and on.
 
2013-01-31 08:50:23 PM

scottydoesntknow: I find 99% of Superman stuff to be horribly boring. BUT the one piece of Superman media that I do love (and will watch anytime) is when he finally gets to unleash all his power and deliver an epic beatdown to Darkseid.

That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am!

Youtube


As much as I love that little speech [spoiler alert] it's kinda diminished by Supes subsequently getting smacked down and having to be bailed out by someone else's hail-Mary gambit.

Oh, and what ruin Superman for me is the "situationally adaptive powers". I had some Superman cartoons on VHS growing up and I swear each episode involved him unveiling a new power.
 
2013-01-31 08:50:32 PM

wee: The only Superman worth watching/reading/etc is the one in Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.


The one who was Ronald Reagan's biatch?
 
2013-01-31 08:51:12 PM

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: I'll defend the use of Drunk-Ass Superman in Superman III.


How can Superman even get drunk? You get drunk when your liver gets overloaded with booze and it can't process it all. How can that happen to Superman? Same thing with Hancock.

So they're not using John Williams' score in the the next film? I suppose that's one way to go.
 
2013-01-31 08:52:04 PM

Mad_Radhu: wee: The only Superman worth watching/reading/etc is the one in Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

The one who was Ronald Reagan's biatch?


He was Batman's biatch as well.
 
2013-01-31 08:53:44 PM

Mugato: How can Superman even get drunk? You get drunk when your liver gets overloaded with booze and it can't process it all. How can that happen to Superman? Same thing with Hancock.


Maybe an anchovy olive coated with a dusting of Kryptonite?


Mugato: So they're not using John Williams' score in the the next film? I suppose that's one way to go.


I'd be alright with that. They didn't rehash Danny Elfman's music for the Nolan Batman movies, and that worked out a-okay.
 
2013-01-31 08:55:53 PM

Mad_Radhu: wee: The only Superman worth watching/reading/etc is the one in Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

The one who was Ronald Reagan's biatch?


You mean Lex Luthor's biatch right?

/Just watched Dark Knight Returns Part 2.  The final fight scene was AWESOME
 
2013-01-31 08:56:08 PM

wee: The only Superman worth watching/reading/etc is the one in Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.


I would argue that MIller is partially responsible for the ruination of comics today. Dark Knight Returns was exceptional and a good piece of comics literature, but the problem is that with the success of DKR and Watchmen, 'deconstruction' became far too popular. Suddenly, every character had to deal with vastly amplified problems. Comics from the big two became less and less about action and adventure and more about how much torment a hero can take. When Stan Lee wanted to give superheroes real-world problems, he never intended it to go to the extreme that is has these days. It's no longer enough to have Peter Parker worry about making the rent or Aunt May's health; now, he has to get beaten to a bloody pulp, framed for murder and suffer through a Daily Bugle smear campaign all while Aunt May lies comatose in Manhattan General ICU.

Comics have gone from the 'Saturday Morning Matinee' type of stories to the 'Saw Torture Porn' type of stories.
 
2013-01-31 09:05:48 PM
Scott Lobdell?
 
2013-01-31 09:06:29 PM

HeartBurnKid: scottydoesntknow: I find 99% of Superman stuff to be horribly boring. BUT the one piece of Superman media that I do love (and will watch anytime) is when he finally gets to unleash all his power and deliver an epic beatdown to Darkseid.

That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am!

Youtube

The whole Timm/Dini animated canon is just plain awesome, but JLU might be the most awesome of the awesome.  I'm of the opinion that JLU Season 2, taken as a whole, is one of the greatest superhero stories ever told.


Clash is a GLORIOUS episode, with Captain Marvel and Superman absolutely WRECKING a city, AND Superman is wrong. And Batman knows they've been set up.
 
2013-01-31 09:07:07 PM
io9 ruined Superman because io9 ruins everything.
 
2013-01-31 09:07:21 PM
I can't tell you how much I hated Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane. It was irrational, I know, but yet,I hated her. How the hell can Lois Lane be a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist with years of experience when she's just barely 23? And then there's the whole having a 6 year old kid thing. Was Lois Lane, star reporter, banging Superman when she was a teenager?
 
2013-01-31 09:11:15 PM
Number 1

nakeddc.com
 
2013-01-31 09:13:53 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: NeedlesslyCanadian: Counting or not counting that Superman is a lame superhero in the first place?

This.  I never saw the appeal of the character.  Every bit of it is flawed.  Ridiculous underwear on the outside costume with unnecessary cape, a secret identity a fetus in a jar could figure out, piled on attributes and backstory, more powers, last survivor of Krypton becomes one of many, different kinds of Kryptonite for different effects, some truly horrible villains, powers that make the JLA obsolete but he still joins..and on and on.


I never liked the fact that the dick can hang out in space, listening to everything on Earth, and instead of tracking down terrorist groups or serial killers or drug gangs massacring huge swathes of certain areas of Mexico, he decides to stop...a bank robbery.
 
2013-01-31 09:14:02 PM
13. Superman at World's End, which somehow makes THIS boring:

www.redshirt.co.uk
 
2013-01-31 09:14:20 PM

NeedlesslyCanadian: Counting or not counting that Superman is a the lamest superhero in the first place?


ftfy
 
2013-01-31 09:15:54 PM

doglover: Number 1

[nakeddc.com image 544x523]


You've lost me. Why is this being trotted out?
 
2013-01-31 09:18:27 PM

Apos: doglover: Number 1

[nakeddc.com image 544x523]

You've lost me. Why is this being trotted out?


I think it's Comet, the Wonder Horse that deflowered Kara Zor-El
 
2013-01-31 09:18:44 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: NeedlesslyCanadian: Counting or not counting that Superman is a lame superhero in the first place?

This.  I never saw the appeal of the character.  Every bit of it is flawed.  Ridiculous underwear on the outside costume with unnecessary cape, a secret identity a fetus in a jar could figure out, piled on attributes and backstory, more powers, last survivor of Krypton becomes one of many, different kinds of Kryptonite for different effects, some truly horrible villains, powers that make the JLA obsolete but he still joins..and on and on.


Superman vs The Elite is actually a pretty decent animated movie.
 
2013-01-31 09:20:17 PM

Apos: doglover: Number 1

[nakeddc.com image 544x523]

You've lost me. Why is this being trotted out?


What's the opposite of Christopher Walken?
 
2013-01-31 09:22:19 PM

I_Am_Weasel: 13.  Superman takes up horse back riding.


Heh, lolled hard on that.
 
2013-01-31 09:23:31 PM

AntonChigger: Mad_Radhu: wee: The only Superman worth watching/reading/etc is the one in Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

The one who was Ronald Reagan's biatch?

You mean Lex Luthor's biatch right?

/Just watched Dark Knight Returns Part 2.  The final fight scene was AWESOME


I'm trying to pretend DK2 didn't happen.
 
2013-01-31 09:23:34 PM
Re: #12...

This was the outcome, so more power to it I say!

www.anime.com
 
2013-01-31 09:24:27 PM

Fano: Apos: doglover: Number 1

[nakeddc.com image 544x523]

You've lost me. Why is this being trotted out?

I think it's Comet, the Wonder Horse that deflowered Kara Zor-El


paul.rutgers.edu

You did what?
 
2013-01-31 09:25:20 PM

baka-san: Re: #12...

This was the outcome, so more power to it I say!

[www.anime.com image 380x344]


I see what you did there...
 
2013-01-31 09:28:36 PM

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: Mugato: So they're not using John Williams' score in the the next film? I suppose that's one way to go.

I'd be alright with that. They didn't rehash Danny Elfman's music for the Nolan Batman movies, and that worked out a-okay.


Danny Elfman's no John Williams and the Batman score is no Superman score. I doubt the origin story with Marlon Brando and the Christmas tree ornament spaceship is going to improved upon either.
 
2013-01-31 09:49:44 PM

Mugato: Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: Mugato: So they're not using John Williams' score in the the next film? I suppose that's one way to go.

I'd be alright with that. They didn't rehash Danny Elfman's music for the Nolan Batman movies, and that worked out a-okay.

Danny Elfman's no John Williams and the Batman score is no Superman score. I doubt the origin story with Marlon Brando and the Christmas tree ornament spaceship is going to improved upon either.


At this point there's no reason to ever film an origin for Superman or Spider-man ever again. Everyone knows the gist of it.
 
2013-01-31 09:50:01 PM

Fano: HeartBurnKid: scottydoesntknow: I find 99% of Superman stuff to be horribly boring. BUT the one piece of Superman media that I do love (and will watch anytime) is when he finally gets to unleash all his power and deliver an epic beatdown to Darkseid.

That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am!

Youtube

The whole Timm/Dini animated canon is just plain awesome, but JLU might be the most awesome of the awesome.  I'm of the opinion that JLU Season 2, taken as a whole, is one of the greatest superhero stories ever told.

Clash is a GLORIOUS episode, with Captain Marvel and Superman absolutely WRECKING a city, AND Superman is wrong. And Batman knows they've been set up.


Lets not forget the super awesome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUL_Oyo8Asc Man who has everything episode. Alan Moore I love you so.
 
2013-01-31 09:51:25 PM

doglover: Apos: doglover: Number 1

[nakeddc.com image 544x523]

You've lost me. Why is this being trotted out?

What's the opposite of Christopher Walken?


Damn it, I....can't believe I didn't get this immediately. Well played.

/Fark polo

/
 
2013-01-31 10:10:07 PM
It might just be me but the list sounds like a Superman hater ripping into him just to rip in to him.
 
2013-01-31 10:12:42 PM

grimlock1972: It might just be me but the list sounds like a Superman hater ripping into him just to rip in to him.


Why doesn't he put the entire IO9 in a bottle?
 
2013-01-31 10:27:08 PM
www.blogcdn.com

These shenanigans turned me off a bit.
 
2013-01-31 10:30:33 PM
As lame as Superman is, this was the best cartoon ever:

upload.wikimedia.org

//Hotlinks are hot.
 
2013-01-31 10:53:07 PM
farm5.staticflickr.com
 
2013-01-31 11:01:32 PM
when done well, there are some exceptionally good Superman stories. Except those are few and far between the filler.

Red Son, Birthright, Secret Identity, Kingdom Come, All-Star Superman.

and yes, no more origin stories needed, if you don't know it by now, this is all you need to know:

img190.imageshack.us
 
2013-01-31 11:09:29 PM

scottydoesntknow: I find 99% of Superman stuff to be horribly boring. BUT the one piece of Superman media that I do love (and will watch anytime) is when he finally gets to unleash all his power and deliver an epic beatdown to Darkseid.

That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am!

Youtube


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTECNKpZAM4 Every fight he had with Darkseid in both Superman and JLU was EPIC. Especially the one where Darkseid is sucked into oblivion, and he calls Superman a loser when Batman pulls him from the fight. His rage at Bruce for not letting him die trying to kill Darkseid was great. "You know what, Bruce? You're not always right!."
 
2013-01-31 11:12:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmTg7ROPssc Justice League season 2: Twilight "This time I won't stop until you're just a greasy smear on my fist."


Superman is great when given the chance to cut loose.
 
2013-01-31 11:13:43 PM
The Silver Age was just a dark time for comics in general. Nothing but enforced sweetness and fluff, taking every last bit of testicular fortitude out of comics.

That's how we ended up with 75% of the list.
 
2013-01-31 11:15:34 PM

ModernLuddite: As lame as Superman is, this was the best cartoon ever:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x494]

//Hotlinks are hot.


YES!  I had this on some cartoon classic VHS tape when I was a kid.  Watched the fark out of it.
 
2013-01-31 11:18:09 PM

calbert: when done well, there are some exceptionally good Superman stories. Except those are few and far between the filler.

Red Son, Birthright, Secret Identity, Kingdom Come, All-Star Superman.


I also liked A Superman for All Seasons.
 
2013-01-31 11:20:01 PM

Zombie Butler: Fano: HeartBurnKid: scottydoesntknow: I find 99% of Superman stuff to be horribly boring. BUT the one piece of Superman media that I do love (and will watch anytime) is when he finally gets to unleash all his power and deliver an epic beatdown to Darkseid.

That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am!

Youtube

The whole Timm/Dini animated canon is just plain awesome, but JLU might be the most awesome of the awesome.  I'm of the opinion that JLU Season 2, taken as a whole, is one of the greatest superhero stories ever told.

Clash is a GLORIOUS episode, with Captain Marvel and Superman absolutely WRECKING a city, AND Superman is wrong. And Batman knows they've been set up.

Lets not forget the super awesome For the Man who Has Everything episode. Alan Moore I love you so.


R.I.P., Dwayne McDuffie. We still miss you deeply, two years later. :-(


WippitGuud: AdolfOliverPanties: NeedlesslyCanadian: Counting or not counting that Superman is a lame superhero in the first place?

This. I never saw the appeal of the character. Every bit of it is flawed. Ridiculous underwear on the outside costume with unnecessary cape, a secret identity a fetus in a jar could figure out, piled on attributes and backstory, more powers, last survivor of Krypton becomes one of many, different kinds of Kryptonite for different effects, some truly horrible villains, powers that make the JLA obsolete but he still joins..and on and on.

Superman vs The Elite is actually a pretty decent animated movie.


Actually, much of what AdolfOliverPanties said was not true about Superman in the first place, but was added on by later writers. The original Superman was truly innovative in many ways, being the first time the particular combination of a character having super powers (which were nowhere near as extreme as they became) and a costume and a secret identity, etc. had been used together.

Granted, there were previous characters in comics and pulp fiction that had one or more of those attributes (The Gladiator, John Carter of Barsoom aka Mars, etc. had similar powers; The Scarlet Pimpernel apparently invented the seemingly incompetent secret identity and dashing costumed hero identity that was quickly also used by Zorro, and The Shadow had two secret identities [one of which apparently supplied Clark Kent's surname, while Doc Savage, Man of Bronze apparently supplied his given name], etc.), but Supes was the first to combine them.
 
2013-01-31 11:25:47 PM

WippitGuud: AdolfOliverPanties: NeedlesslyCanadian: Counting or not counting that Superman is a lame superhero in the first place?

This.  I never saw the appeal of the character.  Every bit of it is flawed.  Ridiculous underwear on the outside costume with unnecessary cape, a secret identity a fetus in a jar could figure out, piled on attributes and backstory, more powers, last survivor of Krypton becomes one of many, different kinds of Kryptonite for different effects, some truly horrible villains, powers that make the JLA obsolete but he still joins..and on and on.

Superman vs The Elite is actually a pretty decent animated movie.


The conclusion is a giant middle finger to people that want certain heroes to become dark and edgy, because what you REALLY don't want is a crazed, pissed off Kryptonian god-man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0lWjKK6KOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APZFAryvC8Q  (spoilers of course, since I'm posting the climactic battle) "I understand now what the world wants. What it NEEDS."
 
2013-01-31 11:37:11 PM
Essentially accurate but a little too heavy on some things.

There's way to do the character. Most writers don't do a good job with it. Superman isn't a blank canvas. He's essentially an archetype. You can't mold an archetype into what you want it to be. If you want to be creative and make a new character... make a new character.

Pocket Ninja: The only Superman analysis/critique worth reading was written over 40 years ago, and it's right here:  http://www.rawbw.com/~svw/superman.html


Wondered when that would appear.
 
2013-01-31 11:42:47 PM
COMALite J:

R.I.P., Dwayne McDuffie. We still miss you deeply, two years later. :-(

Now I'm sad.  We are more for having him amongst us and less for loosing him.
 
2013-01-31 11:49:27 PM
13. Superman 64
 
2013-02-01 12:06:33 AM

Uakronkid: 13. Superman 64


OUCH.

That... that's about right, I'd say.
 
2013-02-01 12:07:54 AM

COMALite J: Actually, much of what AdolfOliverPanties said was not true about Superman in the first place, but was added on by later writers. The original Superman was truly innovative in many ways, being the first time the particular combination of a character having super powers (which were nowhere near as extreme as they became) and a costume and a secret identity, etc. had been used together.

Granted, there were previous characters in comics and pulp fiction that had one or more of those attributes (The Gladiator, John Carter of Barsoom aka Mars, etc. had similar powers; The Scarlet Pimpernel apparently invented the seemingly incompetent secret identity and dashing costumed hero identity that was quickly also used by Zorro, and The Shadow had two secret identities [one of which apparently supplied Clark Kent's surname, while Doc Savage, Man of Bronze apparently supplied his given name], etc.), but Supes was the first to combine them.


Supes borrowed a few other things from Dr. Clark Savage, Jr. than just his first name.  Doc, a man with super-human strength and intellect, was known as "The Man of Bronze" before Kal-El was "The Man of Steel".  And Doc had the Fortress of Solitude(tm) first as well.  Maybe it was a time-share.
 
2013-02-01 12:10:37 AM

likefunbutnot: NeedlesslyCanadian: Counting or not counting that Superman is a the lamest superhero in the first place?

ftfy


Uh, Aquaman and Arm Fall Off Boy.
 
2013-02-01 12:12:38 AM

propasaurus: I can't tell you how much I hated Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane. It was irrational, I know, but yet,I hated her. How the hell can Lois Lane be a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist with years of experience when she's just barely 23? And then there's the whole having a 6 year old kid thing. Was Lois Lane, star reporter, banging Superman when she was a teenager?


I so agree, made no sense. I am far from being a geek with this genre but dang it get it close.
 
2013-02-01 12:37:25 AM

erveek: likefunbutnot: NeedlesslyCanadian: Counting or not counting that Superman is a the lamest superhero in the first place?

ftfy

Uh, Aquaman and Arm Fall Off Boy.


Marvel has its own share of lame superheroes. Brother Voodoo, anyone?


Radioactive_Clown: COMALite J: Actually, much of what AdolfOliverPanties said was not true about Superman in the first place, but was added on by later writers. The original Superman was truly innovative in many ways, being the first time the particular combination of a character having super powers (which were nowhere near as extreme as they became) and a costume and a secret identity, etc. had been used together.

Granted, there were previous characters in comics and pulp fiction that had one or more of those attributes (The Gladiator, John Carter of Barsoom aka Mars, etc. had similar powers; The Scarlet Pimpernel apparently invented the seemingly incompetent secret identity and dashing costumed hero identity that was quickly also used by Zorro, and The Shadow had two secret identities [one of which apparently supplied Clark Kent's surname, while Doc Savage, Man of Bronze apparently supplied his given name], etc.), but Supes was the first to combine them.

Supes borrowed a few other things from Dr. Clark Savage, Jr. than just his first name.  Doc, a man with super-human strength and intellect, was known as "The Man of Bronze" before Kal-El was "The Man of Steel".  And Doc had the Fortress of Solitude(tm) first as well.  Maybe it was a time-share.


I don't recall Clark Savage having superhuman strength. More like suprahuman. The very best that humans could conceivably achieve, but still human, more like Captain America than even the original Superman (well, not the original Superman ― that one was a bald telepathic world-conquering villain! ― but you know what I mean).

John Carter and Hugo Danner (Gladiator) both had truly super strength before Superman (in Carter's case, for similar reasons as would be later used to explain Superman's strength: a species adapted for higher gravity has super strength when on a planet with lesser gravity, and it's arguable that John Carter was no stronger than maximal human strength, but seemed much stronger compared to the peoples of Barsoom). Danner's powers were virtually identical to the ones Superman would show in his first published appearance almost a decade later, and indeed the explanation for his strength was similar to that used in Action #1: about how insects can lift great weights compared to their size (Spider-Man would decades later use that).

True about the Fortress of Solitude, but Superman didn't get that until quite a bit later. His original super-home was known as his Secret Citadel, and was in a mountainside outside of Metropolis, not in the arctic. While he did allude to having a Fortress of Solitude a decade after his first appearance, that was more of a free-standing castle and never took a major role in stories. The Fortress that is anything like Doc Savage's didn't appear until a decade after that.
 
2013-02-01 12:42:14 AM

COMALite J: erveek: likefunbutnot: NeedlesslyCanadian: Counting or not counting that Superman is a the lamest superhero in the first place?

ftfy

Uh, Aquaman and Arm Fall Off Boy.

Marvel has its own share of lame superheroes. Brother Voodoo, anyone?


Radioactive_Clown: COMALite J: Actually, much of what AdolfOliverPanties said was not true about Superman in the first place, but was added on by later writers. The original Superman was truly innovative in many ways, being the first time the particular combination of a character having super powers (which were nowhere near as extreme as they became) and a costume and a secret identity, etc. had been used together.

Granted, there were previous characters in comics and pulp fiction that had one or more of those attributes (The Gladiator, John Carter of Barsoom aka Mars, etc. had similar powers; The Scarlet Pimpernel apparently invented the seemingly incompetent secret identity and dashing costumed hero identity that was quickly also used by Zorro, and The Shadow had two secret identities [one of which apparently supplied Clark Kent's surname, while Doc Savage, Man of Bronze apparently supplied his given name], etc.), but Supes was the first to combine them.

Supes borrowed a few other things from Dr. Clark Savage, Jr. than just his first name.  Doc, a man with super-human strength and intellect, was known as "The Man of Bronze" before Kal-El was "The Man of Steel".  And Doc had the Fortress of Solitude(tm) first as well.  Maybe it was a time-share.

I don't recall Clark Savage having superhuman strength. More like suprahuman. The very best that humans could conceivably achieve, but still human, more like Captain America than even the original Superman (well, not the original Superman ― that one was a bald telepathic world-conquering villain! ― but you know what I mean).

John Carter and Hugo Danner (Gladiator) both had truly super strength before Superman (in Carter's case, for similar reasons as would be later used to explain S ...


you sound like a geek. lolz
 
2013-02-01 12:53:32 AM
Take a chill pill, enjoy your comic.

/if you don't like it, don't buy it...try it again later.
 
2013-02-01 01:24:43 AM

doglover: Number 1

[nakeddc.com image 544x523]


LOL, that's some sick funny shiat right there.
 
2013-02-01 01:32:39 AM

AntonChigger: Mad_Radhu: wee: The only Superman worth watching/reading/etc is the one in Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

The one who was Ronald Reagan's biatch?

You mean Lex Luthor's biatch right?

/Just watched Dark Knight Returns Part 2.  The final fight scene was AWESOME


After reading this thread, I just watched parts 1 & 2. Now it's 1:30 and I want MORE! Damn you.
 
2013-02-01 01:33:06 AM
www.supermanhomepage.com

I blame Spiderman.
 
2013-02-01 01:33:41 AM
killed my image. grrrrr

and eff you photbucket/google
 
2013-02-01 01:34:45 AM

erveek: Uh, Aquaman


OUTRAGEOUS!

/my kids love Batman:The Brave and the Bold
//Aquaman's actually pretty cool in that
 
2013-02-01 01:35:29 AM

erveek: likefunbutnot: NeedlesslyCanadian: Counting or not counting that Superman is a the lamest superhero in the first place?

ftfy

Uh, Aquaman and Arm Fall Off Boy.


YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH
 
2013-02-01 01:48:24 AM

rocky_howard: I'm torn.

It has some legit stuff like JMS run and Smallville, but it has incredibly idiotic mind-numbing stuff such as "he flies" or "Lois Lane" that I can't take this bulls*** seriously. Par for the course with Gawker.


While I agree in general, flying is often used as a key early example of the expansion of his powers that went on to become just ridiculous. So I can see why it was listed, however the "every power anyone could think of" should have been part of the same entry.
This is my biggest issue with Superman, and why I much prefer Batman, Spiderman, X-men, etc. The best superhero stories are as much about the hero's flaws as anything else (hell, most of the best stories, period, revolve around the main character's flaws). And building up the all powerful, indestructible and near perfect Superman really makes that hard to do.
 
2013-02-01 01:48:39 AM

I_Am_Weasel: 13.  Superman takes up horse back riding.


GRND FLOOR
 
2013-02-01 01:56:34 AM
I don't see how he could possibly leave the Daily Planet. He worked the crime desk to give him a heads-up on crimes in progress that required Superman's presence. Because Superman isn't good at finding this shiat out himself.
 
2013-02-01 02:10:29 AM

RoyFokker'sGhost: wee: The only Superman worth watching/reading/etc is the one in Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

I would argue that MIller is partially responsible for the ruination of comics today. Dark Knight Returns was exceptional and a good piece of comics literature, but the problem is that with the success of DKR and Watchmen, 'deconstruction' became far too popular. Suddenly, every character had to deal with vastly amplified problems. Comics from the big two became less and less about action and adventure and more about how much torment a hero can take. When Stan Lee wanted to give superheroes real-world problems, he never intended it to go to the extreme that is has these days. It's no longer enough to have Peter Parker worry about making the rent or Aunt May's health; now, he has to get beaten to a bloody pulp, framed for murder and suffer through a Daily Bugle smear campaign all while Aunt May lies comatose in Manhattan General ICU.

Comics have gone from the 'Saturday Morning Matinee' type of stories to the 'Saw Torture Porn' type of stories.


you spelled 'Grant Morrison' wrong.
 
2013-02-01 02:41:24 AM

Hoban Washburne: ModernLuddite: As lame as Superman is, this was the best cartoon ever:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x494]

//Hotlinks are hot.

YES!  I had this on some cartoon classic VHS tape when I was a kid.  Watched the fark out of it.


Seeing it now reminds me of how much of a missed opportunity Sky Captain was.
 
2013-02-01 02:47:39 AM
I always kinda liked the Superman-Wonder Woman thing. At least he's found someone he can bang without worrying about accidentally tearing her in half. And their outfits don't clash.
 
2013-02-01 02:53:20 AM
well, he has two weaknesses:

The first is obvious - kryptonite.  Don't have much to say about it.

The second is he can't be in more than one place at once.  Now this.... gets broken all the time from what I've seen of Superman shows....  From the famous punching time in the face to an army of super robots it removes one of the very few weaknesses he has and cheapens his character.  It brings out the old question of why even have a Justice League if Superman can do literally everything.
 
2013-02-01 03:41:18 AM

exparrot: RoyFokker'sGhost: wee: The only Superman worth watching/reading/etc is the one in Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

I would argue that MIller is partially responsible for the ruination of comics today. Dark Knight Returns was exceptional and a good piece of comics literature, but the problem is that with the success of DKR and Watchmen, 'deconstruction' became far too popular. Suddenly, every character had to deal with vastly amplified problems. Comics from the big two became less and less about action and adventure and more about how much torment a hero can take. When Stan Lee wanted to give superheroes real-world problems, he never intended it to go to the extreme that is has these days. It's no longer enough to have Peter Parker worry about making the rent or Aunt May's health; now, he has to get beaten to a bloody pulp, framed for murder and suffer through a Daily Bugle smear campaign all while Aunt May lies comatose in Manhattan General ICU.

Comics have gone from the 'Saturday Morning Matinee' type of stories to the 'Saw Torture Porn' type of stories.

you spelled 'Grant Morrison' wrong.


I agree that Morrison ramped up the decay, but the problem started when DC & Marvel both decided everything needed to be gritty like Moore and Miller, rather than just have gritty stories as the occasional break. The next step came with the Jim Lee/McFarlaine/Liefeld anti-heroes, then Morrison stepped in with the batshiatting craziness that was fun in his Vertigo titles, but just completely destroys mainstream characters. Mark Millar and Garth Ennis upped the ante with Authority, then the inmates truly started running the asylum when Quesada and DiDio were put in charge and all stories had to reference minutiae from 30 or so years ago. Which leads us to the ruins of comic books today...
 
2013-02-01 05:00:16 AM

timswar: scottydoesntknow: I find 99% of Superman stuff to be horribly boring. BUT the one piece of Superman media that I do love (and will watch anytime) is when he finally gets to unleash all his power and deliver an epic beatdown to Darkseid.

That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am!

Youtube

As much as I love that little speech [spoiler alert] it's kinda diminished by Supes subsequently getting smacked down and having to be bailed out by someone else's hail-Mary gambit.

Oh, and what ruin Superman for me is the "situationally adaptive powers". I had some Superman cartoons on VHS growing up and I swear each episode involved him unveiling a new power.


The old stuff (cartoons, comics, TV shows) was lousy with that shiat. Especially in the comics and the Super Friends cartoon, Superman would whip out one new power after another that was just what the situation called for and would never appear again. Super-Knitting, Super-Math, Super-Anti-Malaria-Earwax, Super-Jazz Hands. Though you can't mock only Superman for that, all of the DC characters were guilty, especially Batman and his goddamned waist-mounted toolshed/laboratory.

Fortunately they stopped doing that shiat so much during the 90's and it's sticking so far.

/rolled my eyes so hard after Superman peeled off the S from his chest and tossed it at one of Zod's henchmen in Superman II and wrapped him in a Super-Saran wrap Bubble
 
2013-02-01 05:37:49 AM

Hoban Washburne: ModernLuddite: As lame as Superman is, this was the best cartoon ever:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x494]

//Hotlinks are hot.

YES!  I had this on some cartoon classic VHS tape when I was a kid.  Watched the fark out of it.


We probably had the same tape.

*brofist*

I have it on DVD now, and made my wife a fan.
 
2013-02-01 07:22:11 AM

ModernLuddite: As lame as Superman is, this was the best cartoon ever:


So weird, I JUST watched that like a WEEK ago!  Never saw it before!

/Lois, you're gonna get knocked around inside that giant metal robot full of diamonds and shiat!!
 
2013-02-01 07:28:45 AM

Waldo Pepper: propasaurus: I can't tell you how much I hated Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane. It was irrational, I know, but yet,I hated her. How the hell can Lois Lane be a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist with years of experience when she's just barely 23? And then there's the whole having a 6 year old kid thing. Was Lois Lane, star reporter, banging Superman when she was a teenager?

I so agree, made no sense. I am far from being a geek with this genre but dang it get it close.


And Parker Posey was right there as Luthor's henchwoman. She would have been perfect.
 
2013-02-01 07:57:37 AM
You know you've got a problem when the only way to have your hero in jeopardy is to take away the powers that define him.
 
2013-02-01 07:59:52 AM
scottydoesntknow: Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't ya, big man?

And these buildings full of people that I'm about to knock you through right now, and near the large crater I'm going to make with you, and so on, they...uh, they can probably take it too. Probably. ...Okay. Good talk.
 
2013-02-01 08:05:43 AM

czetie: You know you've got a problem when the only way to have your hero in jeopardy is to take away the powers that define him.


If your Superman story requires putting Superman in jeopardy, you're doing it wrong.

/as a rule
 
2013-02-01 08:12:23 AM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: czetie: You know you've got a problem when the only way to have your hero in jeopardy is to take away the powers that define him.

If your Superman story requires putting Superman in jeopardy, you're doing it wrong.

/as a rule


If your X story does not involve putting X in jeopardy, you're doing it wrong, for all values of X.

/as a rule
 
2013-02-01 08:33:20 AM

czetie: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: czetie: You know you've got a problem when the only way to have your hero in jeopardy is to take away the powers that define him.

If your Superman story requires putting Superman in jeopardy, you're doing it wrong.

/as a rule

If your X story does not involve putting X in jeopardy, you're doing it wrong, for all values of X.

/as a rule


Don't be fatuous, czetie. For Superman, even more than most superheroes, the suspense should tend to arise from the possibility that Superman will be unable or unwilling to prevent some harm to others, not from Superman's own physical peril.
 
2013-02-01 08:34:52 AM

StoPPeRmobile: [www.supermanhomepage.com image 369x288]



Ducking when criminals throw guns at you.
 
2013-02-01 09:11:44 AM
1. Invincible characters are boring
2. Did you need something else?
 
2013-02-01 09:50:49 AM
Actually, there's only one thing that ruins Superman, and that is that he is a character without a defining story. Similarly, the recent attempt to take the Watchmen out of their story and to create new stories around them is pointless because those where the characters necessary to telling that story. Characters shorn of their purpose in a story aren't much at all.
 
2013-02-01 09:59:07 AM

randomjsa: 1. Invincible characters are boring
2. Did you need something else?


That's why Batman had to beat his ass to make the character halfway interesting.

My problem with Superman is that he works at a farking newspaper (or media outlet nowadays I suppose) instead of stopping international shiat from going down. Say what you want about Zod and his crew, once he took over he pretty much left everyone alone and would probably get around to straightening out the bullshiat around the world. And power hungry dictators threatening to take over or destroy other countries? Zod wouldn't put up with that shiat.

/Hail Zod
 
2013-02-01 10:41:36 AM
"Hi Captain Dude! Welcome to the city!   I'm Lois Lane, can you answer a few questions about your career as a superhero?"
"Sure Ms Lane."
"Can you fly faster than the speed of light?"
"No."
"Do your visual senses extend into well beyond the visual range of ordinary humans?"
"No."
"Are you immune to nuclear explosions, and the cold dark vacuum of space?"
"No."
"Can you move planetary masses unassisted?"
"No."
<pause>
"Are you sure you're a superhero?"
 
2013-02-01 10:41:50 AM
I'm going with geeks who spend far to much time worrying about stupid sh*t like this.

Ya.

Let's go with that.
 
2013-02-01 10:43:08 AM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Don't be fatuous, czetie.


Being fatuous is my superpower. Taking me seriously is my kryptonite.

For Superman, even more than most superheroes, the suspense should tend to arise from the possibility that Superman will be unable or unwilling to prevent some harm to others, not from Superman's own physical peril.

Yes, that's kind of my point, thank you. That's precisely what makes it so hard to make a Superman story interesting. The suspense that arises from Superman being unable to prevent some harm is, frankly, a very second rate kind of suspense. It's a Saturday Morning kind of suspense, not a Sunday Night kind of suspense.

What makes Batman infinitely more interesting is that he chooses to put himself in peril to prevent harm to others. (One of the themes of TDKR is Alfred's suggestion that Wayne is obsessively putting himself in harm's way, and that only actually suffering harm will satisfy his need to feel that he has done all he can.) Captain America embodies the ethos of putting himself in harm's way, lampshaded by the fact that his iconic weapon is a shield -- especially in the movie adaptation, beginning with his determination to sign up, his behavior in basic training, his mission to rescue the PoWs, all the way to his final self-sacrifice. Even the Thor movie understands this, making the central moment of the story a de-powered Thor's willingness to sacrifice himself to prevent harm to others. (Contrast Superman II, where a de-powered Superman is willing to... go and get his powers back.)

From a story telling perspective Superman is uninteresting precisely because he has nothing personally at risk (unless you take away his powers or kidnap Lois Lane). He's like the mirror image of a Natural Disaster movie: as a protagonist, he is about as interesting as a meteor or a tidal wave or a volcano is as an antagonist.
 
2013-02-01 10:47:41 AM
those reasons are all true.
however you'll never really get Superman untill you've read Grant Morrisons All Star Superman. One of the best comics ever written IMO.
the reason he's crap is he's generally given crappy writers relying on crappy powers to save the crappy story.
 
2013-02-01 10:51:48 AM

czetie: From a story telling perspective Superman is uninteresting precisely because he has nothing personally at risk (unless you take away his powers or kidnap Lois Lane). He's like the mirror image of a Natural Disaster movie: as a protagonist, he is about as interesting as a meteor or a tidal wave or a volcano is as an antagonist.


Incidentally, it occurs to me that at the opposite pole of the Superman story problem is the Teen Slasher Flick story problem. In the typical Teen Slasher movie, the teens are personally at risk for no reason other than for them to be at risk. When everybody at Camp Hackemup has been horribly dismembered and agonizingly killed... that's the end of the story* and the lurking horror goes to back to lurking, until next time.

Somewhere in the middle are all those stories where the protagonist accepts the danger to themself because something greater is at risk. Those are the interesting stories.

/*Or, as Ebert once noted, "the same teenager dies twice, if you happened to come in in the middle of the movie".
//It used to be considered bad form on Usenet to reply to your own posts, but I don't have alts
 
2013-02-01 10:58:13 AM
During the 60's I was in middle school and it seemed like every other Superman issue dealt with Red Kryptonite giving Superman wierd problems.  So my friends and I came up with our
own story where Superman was exposed to a version of red Kryptonite that made him fart every hour on the hour for 48 hours, each one twice as powerful as the last one.  I can't remember
each and every detail but I do remember we had him leaning his butt out of a window while in a meeting with Perry White and 'blowing' a falling building upright.  We also had him hiding in a
volcano to hide his predicament and the final fart ended with him re-igniting a dying sun.   Oh yes and he was being pursued by the Martian Manhunter because it turned out that kryptonian-farts were
like ecstasy to Martians and in the old days they used to hire Kryptonians to walk around farting (after taking a special pill) during Martian 'rave parties' so the Martian man-hunter couldn't
help himself and kept wanting to hang around Superman.  The story ended with the Martian Manhunter re-exposing Superman to the special Red-Kryptonite along with Supergirl and Krypto.

Yes, we were weird and it is a wonder any of us got married....
 
2013-02-01 11:47:50 AM

czetie: (Contrast Superman II, where a de-powered Superman is willing to... go and get his powers back.)


And how did a de-powered Superman walk back to civilization from the North Pole? Or and he and Lois for that matter? And when he gets his powers back he farks up the trucker guy? That's not very Superman of him. That was a highly overrated movie.
 
2013-02-01 11:49:34 AM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: czetie: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: czetie: You know you've got a problem when the only way to have your hero in jeopardy is to take away the powers that define him.

If your Superman story requires putting Superman in jeopardy, you're doing it wrong.

/as a rule

If your X story does not involve putting X in jeopardy, you're doing it wrong, for all values of X.

/as a rule

Don't be fatuous, czetie. For Superman, even more than most superheroes, the suspense should tend to arise from the possibility that Superman will be unable or unwilling to prevent some harm to others, not from Superman's own physical peril.


Bingo. Superman's greatest weakness isn't kryptonite or magic. It's his friends, his family, and his city.
 
2013-02-01 11:58:20 AM
superman.nu

Is it too late to join the party?
 
2013-02-01 12:51:00 PM

Mugato: czetie: (Contrast Superman II, where a de-powered Superman is willing to... go and get his powers back.)

And how did a de-powered Superman walk back to civilization from the North Pole? Or and he and Lois for that matter? And when he gets his powers back he farks up the trucker guy? That's not very Superman of him. That was a highly overrated movie.


For sure. A smarter man would have flown the Depowering Machine somewhere more convenient before using it. And who knows how long Superman was hanging around outside that truckstop waiting for that guy to show up?

Everything about that movie's plot is a loose thread crying out not to be tugged. Where did the Power-Losing Device come from? Why does it even exist (if Superman turned evil, who is going to put him in it?) How does it work (other than A Wizard Did It)? Why does Superman suddenly have never-before mentioned powers? And on and on...

Some people say that the franchise started to go downhill with Superman III. The reality is that it started downhill about 10 minutes before the end of Superman 1, whose message apparently was: "Superman just brought somebody back from the dead, with all of the mind-shattering ethical, spiritual, religious and philosophical implications that entails. Let us never speak of this again."
 
2013-02-01 12:53:30 PM
The one and only response that is needed for any "Superman totally sucks because he's too powerful!" argument: All-Star Superman. If you can read that story or even just watch the adaptation (which is free on Netflix right now), and if you can  still say you hate Superman then, fine... you and I have an irreconcilable difference of opinion. That, and you're completely wrong.

The only problem that Superman has isn't that he's too powerful, or too perfect, or anything else of the sort. The problem is that too many writers don't know how to write for the character. Those who do can produce amazing works that take advantage of Superman's traits rather than treating them as things that need to be written around.

See also, The Dark Knight Returns, Red Son, and Kingdom Come.
 
2013-02-01 01:03:21 PM

Pyynk: For Superman, even more than most superheroes, the suspense should tend to arise from the possibility that Superman will be unable or unwilling to prevent some harm to others, not from Superman's own physical peril.

Bingo. Superman's greatest weakness isn't kryptonite or magic. It's his friends, his family, and his city.


And his rigid moral code. How many times have we seen this?

MegaUberEvilOverlordman: Haha! I have killed dozens of innocent bystanders, and will kill hundreds more!
Superman: The only way to stop him is... to kill him! What should I do???

(The answer, by the way, is to use your superspeed to fly off and fetch somebody with a less stupid moral code, use your superstrength to break them into MegaUberEvilOverlordman's lair, and shield them with your invulnerable body while they care of business. A SWAT officer or a Marine sniper would be good choices.)

Amongst his greatest weaknesses are such diverse elements as kryptonite, magic, his personal affections, his moral code... I'll go out and come back in...

And yet, still, none of that is very interesting in story terms because he doesn't risk or sacrifice himself to save his friends, his family or his city. As I suggested in another post, he's more like a force of nature than a character.
 
2013-02-01 01:07:23 PM
Superman Red Son is still the best one around.
 
2013-02-01 01:07:50 PM

czetie: Where did the Power-Losing Device come from? Why does it even exist (if Superman turned evil, who is going to put him in it?) How does it work (other than A Wizard Did It)? Why does Superman suddenly have never-before mentioned powers? And on and on...


Well a machine that could take away Kal'el's powers makes sense. Not everyone can deal with being a god. It's like the question of rather you be Han Solo or Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker can move shiat with his mind but Hand Solo got the girl. And if you start up about Mara Jade, I'll shoot you on general principle.

The goofy ass powers that Superman had in Superman 2 were retarded even for comic book standards.

message apparently was: "Superman just brought somebody back from the dead, with all of the mind-shattering ethical, spiritual, religious and philosophical implications that entails. Let us never speak of this again."

Don Corleone said that it was forbidden to interfere with human development to the point that Superman did but he did anyway and there should have been some consequence to it.
 
2013-02-01 01:19:39 PM
Other than 1, 2 and 7, I agree with this list.
 
2013-02-01 01:20:57 PM

Some 'Splainin' To Do: The one and only response that is needed for any "Superman totally sucks because he's too powerful!" argument: All-Star Superman.


That's not the argument (which, by itself, would be a pretty stupid one). The argument is that Superman "sucks" in story terms when he personally has nothing at risk.

[SPOILER ALERT] All-Star Superman fixes this precisely because Superman risks and loses everything (literally everything, when you think about the choice he makes in order to defeat Luthor).


Some 'Splainin' To Do: See also, The Dark Knight Returns, Red Son, and Kingdom Come.


...which are, respectively, Mixed Yet Interesting, Very Good, and Excellent, IMHO.

/I have to stop taking this stuff so seriously
 
2013-02-01 01:24:12 PM

scottydoesntknow: I find 99% of Superman stuff to be horribly boring. BUT the one piece of Superman media that I do love (and will watch anytime) is when he finally gets to unleash all his power and deliver an epic beatdown to Darkseid.

That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am!

Youtube


See, THAT version of Superman was great.  Can't understand why DC's hierarchy can't translate that awesomeness to live action...

Oh yeah I forgot, WARNER BROTHERS is pants-on-head retarded.
 
2013-02-01 01:27:07 PM

HeartBurnKid: scottydoesntknow: I find 99% of Superman stuff to be horribly boring. BUT the one piece of Superman media that I do love (and will watch anytime) is when he finally gets to unleash all his power and deliver an epic beatdown to Darkseid.

That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am!

Youtube

The whole Timm/Dini animated canon is just plain awesome, but JLU might be the most awesome of the awesome.  I'm of the opinion that JLU Season 2, taken as a whole, is one of the greatest superhero stories ever told.


If you're talking the whole Cadmus/"Panic In The Sky" season then, yes; holy crap that was awesome.  Not knocking the following season either 'cause that was plenty fun as well.

Have to admit, want to see "Superman: Unbound"; far more excited for that than "The Man of Steel."
 
2013-02-01 01:30:10 PM
Fano: Clash is a GLORIOUS episode, with Captain Marvel and Superman absolutely WRECKING a city, AND Superman is wrong. And Batman knows they've been set up.

Oh yeah, always loved Captain Marvel and actually geeked out for him not just standing toe-to-toe with Superman but actually winning before he made that one fatal mistake.
 
2013-02-01 01:31:44 PM

baka-san: Re: #12...

This was the outcome, so more power to it I say!

[www.anime.com image 380x344]


Haha, awesome!

/Project A-ko rules.  That is all.
 
2013-02-01 01:33:48 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: with unnecessary cape


2.bp.blogspot.com

Edna, is that you?
 
2013-02-01 01:34:37 PM

Zombie Butler: COMALite J:

R.I.P., Dwayne McDuffie. We still miss you deeply, two years later. :-(

Now I'm sad.  We are more for having him amongst us and less for loosing him.


All of this.
 
2013-02-01 02:01:06 PM

czetie: Pyynk: For Superman, even more than most superheroes, the suspense should tend to arise from the possibility that Superman will be unable or unwilling to prevent some harm to others, not from Superman's own physical peril.

Bingo. Superman's greatest weakness isn't kryptonite or magic. It's his friends, his family, and his city.

And his rigid moral code. How many times have we seen this?

MegaUberEvilOverlordman: Haha! I have killed dozens of innocent bystanders, and will kill hundreds more!
Superman: The only way to stop him is... to kill him! What should I do???

(The answer, by the way, is to use your superspeed to fly off and fetch somebody with a less stupid moral code, use your superstrength to break them into MegaUberEvilOverlordman's lair, and shield them with your invulnerable body while they care of business. A SWAT officer or a Marine sniper would be good choices.)

Amongst his greatest weaknesses are such diverse elements as kryptonite, magic, his personal affections, his moral code... I'll go out and come back in...

And yet, still, none of that is very interesting in story terms because he doesn't risk or sacrifice himself to save his friends, his family or his city. As I suggested in another post, he's more like a force of nature than a character.


I'm probably not the best person to argue most of those points since I'm much more of a Batman guy and there are some I agree with, especially in regards to lazy writing.

I think one of the big problems we've seen with Superman is a return of power creep. Every few years, a writer tries to dial down Superman's powers or power levels. Conversely every few months someone pushes him up a little bit until eventually you've got Superman travelling through time, super ventriloquism, or what have you.

Is it possible to tell a good Superman story? I think so. Waid proved it in Kingdom Come and Morrison proved it twice in JLA and All Star Superman. It just isn't easy to tell a good Superman story, especially since a lot of the common tropes have been used to death.
 
2013-02-01 02:05:02 PM
I love the accompanying  video that had Elijah Wood and Ron Howard in it. However, I take issue with one thing they said.  The narrator went on about all the superheroes and villians that have returned from the dead since Superman "killed death."  Um, did he read comics prior to The Death of Superman?  This is not a new thing.
 
2013-02-01 02:06:23 PM
If superman has muscles that are so efficient that he can lift a car as a baby etc then surely he would look like this
farm3.staticflickr.com
because everything he tries to lift would not give him exercise?
 
2013-02-01 02:17:02 PM

Rwa2play: Fano: Clash is a GLORIOUS episode, with Captain Marvel and Superman absolutely WRECKING a city, AND Superman is wrong. And Batman knows they've been set up.

Oh yeah, always loved Captain Marvel and actually geeked out for him not just standing toe-to-toe with Superman but actually winning before he made that one fatal mistake.


It's a satisfying setup for why two heroes should fight, and "fight's over, kid."

Captain Marvel's rebuke to the Justice League was epic. He shows that he isn't JUST a big kid, just very idealistic. And just when you decide Superman is being a paranoid dick, he's shown to be justified. The whole Cadmus arc was well done. Of course, the Star crossed arc was built up well with Hawk girl. So many things that pay off much later. Hamilton turning traitor was a shock and totally believable based on all his appearances.
 
2013-02-01 02:18:40 PM

scottydoesntknow: Youtube


Wow, Superman caused a lot of property damage there, hopefully no collateral damage.
Oh, and I never watched the animated show before, he's very buff - how does he hide that as Clark Kent?
 
2013-02-01 02:21:13 PM

Gig103: scottydoesntknow: Youtube

Wow, Superman caused a lot of property damage there, hopefully no collateral damage.
Oh, and I never watched the animated show before, he's very buff - how does he hide that as Clark Kent?


Superslouching
 
2013-02-01 02:25:10 PM

Rwa2play: scottydoesntknow: I find 99% of Superman stuff to be horribly boring. BUT the one piece of Superman media that I do love (and will watch anytime) is when he finally gets to unleash all his power and deliver an epic beatdown to Darkseid.

That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am!

Youtube

See, THAT version of Superman was great.  Can't understand why DC's hierarchy can't translate that awesomeness to live action...

Oh yeah I forgot, WARNER BROTHERS is pants-on-head retarded.


So much THIS.

I didn't read a lot of DC as a kid, at the time the characters just didn't appeal to me that much. Around 2005, I started reading a TON of DC titles. What caused the change? Justice League Unlimited. If Bruce Timm, Dwayne McDuffie, and the rest of the DC Animation group could make me give a damn about a character like Vigilante or Vixen, characters that I'd rolled my eyes at for years, what might they do if they got the keys to the kingdom?
 
2013-02-01 02:26:48 PM

Gig103: scottydoesntknow: Youtube

Wow, Superman caused a lot of property damage there, hopefully no collateral damage.
Oh, and I never watched the animated show before, he's very buff - how does he hide that as Clark Kent?


It's the DC Animated Universe. *Everyone* is built like that.
 
2013-02-01 03:32:32 PM

Gig103: scottydoesntknow: Youtube

Wow, Superman caused a lot of property damage there, hopefully no collateral damage.
Oh, and I never watched the animated show before, he's very buff - how does he hide that as Clark Kent?


Glasses and 2 piece suit.

/sometimes jeans and a flannel shirt.
 
2013-02-01 03:42:05 PM

lc6529: During the 60's I was in middle school and it seemed like every other Superman issue dealt with Red Kryptonite giving Superman wierd problems.  So my friends and I came up with our
own story where Superman was exposed to a version of red Kryptonite that made him fart every hour on the hour for 48 hours, each one twice as powerful as the last one.  I can't remember
each and every detail but I do remember we had him leaning his butt out of a window while in a meeting with Perry White and 'blowing' a falling building upright.  We also had him hiding in a
volcano to hide his predicament and the final fart ended with him re-igniting a dying sun.   Oh yes and he was being pursued by the Martian Manhunter because it turned out that kryptonian-farts were
like ecstasy to Martians and in the old days they used to hire Kryptonians to walk around farting (after taking a special pill) during Martian 'rave parties' so the Martian man-hunter couldn't
help himself and kept wanting to hang around Superman.  The story ended with the Martian Manhunter re-exposing Superman to the special Red-Kryptonite along with Supergirl and Krypto.

Yes, we were weird and it is a wonder any of us got married....


Hey, in the 80s, there was some sci-fi erotica fiction compilation that came out.  I remember one story having to do with Superman trying to get Lois pregnant.  He's have to masturbate, then fly as quickly as he could to catch his semen (he had learned that his ejaculation would punch though walls), and catch his semen in a kryptonite-lined container before it punctured anyone.
 
2013-02-01 04:36:26 PM

wee: The only Superman worth watching/reading/etc is the one in Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.


www.larrytye.com

Disagrees.
 
2013-02-01 04:39:52 PM

Fano: Rwa2play: Fano: Clash is a GLORIOUS episode, with Captain Marvel and Superman absolutely WRECKING a city, AND Superman is wrong. And Batman knows they've been set up.

Oh yeah, always loved Captain Marvel and actually geeked out for him not just standing toe-to-toe with Superman but actually winning before he made that one fatal mistake.

It's a satisfying setup for why two heroes should fight, and "fight's over, kid."

Captain Marvel's rebuke to the Justice League was epic. He shows that he isn't JUST a big kid, just very idealistic. And just when you decide Superman is being a paranoid dick, he's shown to be justified. The whole Cadmus arc was well done. Of course, the Star crossed arc was built up well with Hawk girl. So many things that pay off much later. Hamilton turning traitor was a shock and totally believable based on all his appearances.


Sadly, they wouldn't introduce the Marvel family until "Brave and The Bold."  Would've geeked out for Mary and CM Jr.
 
2013-02-01 04:59:00 PM

Pyynk: I didn't read a lot of DC as a kid, at the time the characters just didn't appeal to me that much. Around 2005, I started reading a TON of DC titles. What caused the change? Justice League Unlimited. If Bruce Timm, Dwayne McDuffie, and the rest of the DC Animation group could make me give a damn about a character like Vigilante or Vixen, characters that I'd rolled my eyes at for years, what might they do if they got the keys to the kingdom?


Just imagine how awesome DC would be at this point in time if (instead of the likes of Lee, Johns and Liefeld) Timm, McDuffie, Dini and others involved with "JLU" had become DC's head honchos.

(waits a bit)

Yea, that awesome.  Now I haz a sad.
 
2013-02-01 05:19:20 PM

Some 'Splainin' To Do: The only problem that Superman has isn't that he's too powerful, or too perfect, or anything else of the sort. The problem is that too many writers don't know how to write for the character. Those who do can produce amazing works that take advantage of Superman's traits rather than treating them as things that need to be written around.

See also, The Dark Knight Returns, Red Son, and Kingdom Come.


Although I like all three of those graphic novels, they are all weird examples that actually seem to run counter to your argument. Each of those graphic novels totally changes Superman's normal role and basically turns him into a new character. In DKR, superman is basically a villain who works for a corrupt government. In Red Son, Superman is again kind of a villain and a communist Superman fighting for the USSR. In Kingdom Come, Superman is part of the again old guard.

What does it mean if the best examples of a character are when that character is uncharacteristically portrayed?

It would seem to imply that AS A CHARACTER Superman is pretty weak, and that the only way to make him interesting is to change who he is OR to treat him as less an actual character than just an archtype to comment on ("What if Superman was a communist??")

Truly great and interesting characters don't need to be inverted or flipped around every time you want to make a good story with them.
 
2013-02-01 05:20:52 PM

Gig103: Wow, Superman caused a lot of property damage there, hopefully no collateral damage.
Oh, and I never watched the animated show before, he's very buff - how does he hide that as Clark Kent?


Ha, I noticed that too. "I'm always having to watch myself, because if I make the tiniest miscalculation, people will die! But I can whale on you all day long!" And then he demolishes a bunch of skyscrapers with Darkseid's body as panicked Metropolites flee for their lives. Yyyyyeah.

As for his secret identity on that show, when he puts on his Clark Kent reporter's suit, it shrinks him down to about a quarter his size. I believe he shops at the Not Really Men's Wearhouse. ("You're going to like the way you look nothing like your normal self.")
 
2013-02-01 06:12:13 PM

Rwa2play: Fano: Clash is a GLORIOUS episode, with Captain Marvel and Superman absolutely WRECKING a city, AND Superman is wrong. And Batman knows they've been set up.

Oh yeah, always loved Captain Marvel and actually geeked out for him not just standing toe-to-toe with Superman but actually winning before he made that one fatal mistake.


Wasn't a huge fan of Captain Marvel, kind of liked him.  Until I started watching Young Justice.  I found it really interesting how Captain Marvel reacted to them

Bill Frist: Although I like all three of those graphic novels, they are all weird examples that actually seem to run counter to your argument. Each of those graphic novels totally changes Superman's normal role and basically turns him into a new character. In DKR, superman is basically a villain who works for a corrupt government. In Red Son, Superman is again kind of a villain and a communist Superman fighting for the USSR. In Kingdom Come, Superman is part of the again old guard.

What does it mean if the best examples of a character are when that character is uncharacteristically portrayed?


I would have to disagree with Some 'Splainin' To Do's choices (and by extension your analysis).  In my mind 3 of the best choices are the DCAU (Specifically JLU), All-Star Superman (animated and book), Superman vs. the Elite.  All of them have essentially the token "overpowered" Superman.  And I find all of them compelling (especially All-Star Superman)
 
2013-02-01 06:35:17 PM

czetie: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Don't be fatuous, czetie.

Being fatuous is my superpower. Taking me seriously is my kryptonite.

For Superman, even more than most superheroes, the suspense should tend to arise from the possibility that Superman will be unable or unwilling to prevent some harm to others, not from Superman's own physical peril.

Yes, that's kind of my point, thank you. That's precisely what makes it so hard to make a Superman story interesting. The suspense that arises from Superman being unable to prevent some harm is, frankly, a very second rate kind of suspense. It's a Saturday Morning kind of suspense, not a Sunday Night kind of suspense.

What makes Batman infinitely more interesting is that he chooses to put himself in peril to prevent harm to others. (One of the themes of TDKR is Alfred's suggestion that Wayne is obsessively putting himself in harm's way, and that only actually suffering harm will satisfy his need to feel that he has done all he can.) Captain America embodies the ethos of putting himself in harm's way, lampshaded by the fact that his iconic weapon is a shield -- especially in the movie adaptation, beginning with his determination to sign up, his behavior in basic training, his mission to rescue the PoWs, all the way to his final self-sacrifice. Even the Thor movie understands this, making the central moment of the story a de-powered Thor's willingness to sacrifice himself to prevent harm to others. (Contrast Superman II, where a de-powered Superman is willing to... go and get his powers back.)

From a story telling perspective Superman is uninteresting precisely because he has nothing personally at risk (unless you take away his powers or kidnap Lois Lane). He's like the mirror image of a Natural Disaster movie: as a protagonist, he is about as interesting as a meteor or a tidal wave or a volcano is as an antagonist.


Well, he is hardly my favorite character, but I think it is possible to write just as compelling a story about  a hero who isn't normally at risk of physical harm. I think there is plenty to work with in terms of Superman being at risk of personal loss or failure in ways other than simply getting his ass kicked, or stories that include things other than punching. So I'm not convinced he is inherently uninteresting. He is maybe less conducive to attempts to hack out a gripping weekly cookie-cutter adventure pamphlet, and that can be a problem for a character owned by a comic publisher. But I'm not sure that requiring a better writer in order to achieve his potential doesn't make Superman a worse character any more than requiring a better driver makes a Ferrari a worse car. And I feel like I'd have to sift through mounds of uninteresting garbage to find a worthwhile story in a comic book anyway.
 
2013-02-01 06:38:14 PM

Pocket Ninja: The only Superman analysis/critique worth reading was written over 40 years ago, and it's right here:  http://www.rawbw.com/~svw/superman.html


what the fark did I just read
 
2013-02-01 07:11:24 PM

Rwa2play: HeartBurnKid: scottydoesntknow: I find 99% of Superman stuff to be horribly boring. BUT the one piece of Superman media that I do love (and will watch anytime) is when he finally gets to unleash all his power and deliver an epic beatdown to Darkseid.

That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking constant care not to break something. To break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't ya, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose, and show you just how powerful I really am!

Youtube

The whole Timm/Dini animated canon is just plain awesome, but JLU might be the most awesome of the awesome.  I'm of the opinion that JLU Season 2, taken as a whole, is one of the greatest superhero stories ever told.

If you're talking the whole Cadmus/"Panic In The Sky" season then, yes; holy crap that was awesome.  Not knocking the following season either 'cause that was plenty fun as well.


That's the one.  Just an amazing story, start to finish.  Ties up a lot of the loose plot threads from the whole Timm/Dini meta-series to that point, too.
 
2013-02-01 07:43:05 PM

RyansPrivates: Rwa2play: Fano: Clash is a GLORIOUS episode, with Captain Marvel and Superman absolutely WRECKING a city, AND Superman is wrong. And Batman knows they've been set up.

Oh yeah, always loved Captain Marvel and actually geeked out for him not just standing toe-to-toe with Superman but actually winning before he made that one fatal mistake.

Wasn't a huge fan of Captain Marvel, kind of liked him.  Until I started watching Young Justice.  I found it really interesting how Captain Marvel reacted to them

Bill Frist: Although I like all three of those graphic novels, they are all weird examples that actually seem to run counter to your argument. Each of those graphic novels totally changes Superman's normal role and basically turns him into a new character. In DKR, superman is basically a villain who works for a corrupt government. In Red Son, Superman is again kind of a villain and a communist Superman fighting for the USSR. In Kingdom Come, Superman is part of the again old guard.

What does it mean if the best examples of a character are when that character is uncharacteristically portrayed?

I would have to disagree with Some 'Splainin' To Do's choices (and by extension your analysis).  In my mind 3 of the best choices are the DCAU (Specifically JLU), All-Star Superman (animated and book), Superman vs. the Elite.  All of them have essentially the token "overpowered" Superman.  And I find all of them compelling (especially All-Star Superman)


I wasn't much of a DC fan until the DCAU. I grew up loving Marvel and disliking the "boring" DC heroes. During the 80s I'd read maybe a one off Superman or Batman if there wasn't anything else to look at. I thought Captain Marvel was just some poor man's knockoff Superman. The DCAU got me reading all the comics with the b-listers because they suddenly seemed compelling. Booster Gold would be another example, ditto Boston Brand.

In retrospect, I'm disappointed that Captain Marvel had so many legal troubles in getting published, because it's something that would be a great introduction for little kids into comics. Let's face it, comics for kids are about wish fulfillment, and the reason there are characters like Robin and Jimmy Olsen are so that kids can imagine themselves as their place as "Batman's pal" and "Superman's pal." But the truth is, no kid playing wanted to be Jimmy Olsen, he wanted to be Superman, thus Billy Batson cuts out the middle man.

I'm no Supermanologist, but between growing up with the movies and the DCAU, I think I get him now. They managed to distill the good parts and keep some of the stuff that drags down the character. Superman is meant to be an example, a beacon of hope. He can't solve all our problems. Turning Luthor at the end of All Star Superman, when he has his own "why don't you put the whole world in a bottle" is a gem in context " If it had mattered to you, Luthor, you could have saved the world years ago " was a great way to show how much he cares. Just my two cents, rather than dealing with land swindles, it would be nice to see a well-executed version of "Quest for Peace," where Superman realizes he can't just MAKE everyone get along, as a good movie if you aren't going to have a world-shattering villain like Darkseid for him to fight.

"Live as one of them, Kal-El, to discover where your strength and your power are needed. Always hold in your heart the pride of your special heritage. They can be a great people, Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you... my only son. "  Yes, he's space Jesus. But that's ok too.  All-Star Superman and Superman vs. the Elite both hinge on the issue of Superman showing us a better way. In the Elite everyone is glad for superpowered goons with the stones to finally do what Wimpyman wouldn't - throw all the bad guys into the sun. The climax shows exactly why he doesn't. And it's nearly the same answer Batman gives Jason Todd for why he doesn't kill. Because that's too easy. But it's not right. Superman ISN'T invincible and perfect. He wobbles enough during the Cadmus arc as Luthor pushes his buttons. You get to see villains like Mongul and Darkseid bring him to a full rage. Watching him try to do the right thing with is powers is interesting.

The argument that he's boring because he's invincible, and only kryptonite can hurt him, falls a bit flat when you start comparing that a mere mortal like Bruce Wayne never gets shot in the back of the head while facing off against 50 murderous goons, nor do they drop a bunker buster on the Batcave while he's washing his tights. shiat, we just concluded a storyline where he was blasted to oblivion by Darkseid's unfailing Omega beam, only to fight his way back from the past.
 
2013-02-01 08:40:59 PM
I think a key to making great Superman stories is to so write him that his character (moral fiber, compassion, and love) keep him from ever exerting ALL of his power and he's always holding back no matter how bad the bad guy is. This is what made Dark Seid so interesting because he plays mind games AND is so immensely strong that he pushes Superman closer to his character breaking point more than any other villain. He brings him closer more than anyone else to crossing the line.
 
2013-02-01 09:08:31 PM
io9. sigh.

A point regarding Marvel mythology:  Mephisto is  not Lucifer or Satan. Marvel  has a Satan (and a Son of Satan, and a daughter of Satan) and Mephisto is not that guy. Mephisto is a demon, not a devil (there's a difference in Marvel's cosmology) and he's certainly not THE Devil.

Yes, Mephisto has posed as Satan on a few occasions, but that was part of his M.O. -- He's all about chaos and mischief. He's not unlike Loki in that regard, except that he's far more malevolent and doesn't have much in the way of sentimental ties to other beings or family members.

I know it's nitpicky, but I just hate it when people say "Spider-Man made a deal with Satan." It's just wrong. First off, he didn't make the deal. In the end it was MJ who made the deal, and he agreed to it.  Second, as I said above, Mephisto is not Satan; He's a deal-making demon. Small difference, I know, but from everything I've read in Marvel, Mephisto is small potatoes next to Satan. Just ask Daimon Hellstrom or Satana about that. The Biblical Lucifer/Satan in Marvel is actually  Marduk Kurios, another demon of great power... One that has been known to taunt Mephisto, but otherwise tends to stay out of the affairs of most people.

And yes, both Mephisto and Satan/Kurios/Lucifer are rulers in Hell, but there are many others. Just like there are plenty of Hell-like dimensions with other demons, such as Limbo which has guys like Bellasco and demons like S'ym.

None of these guys, demons, devils, or creatures is anything when compared to the Elder Gods or beings like Death, Eternity, the Vishanti, The Living Tribunal, The Beyonder, Stranger, Shaper of Worlds, or the Watchers.

When you think of Mephisto, don't think of him as 'The Devil' or 'Satan", but instead as the demonic mirror-image of Loki. He's god-powerful in the Thor/Loki/Hercules way, but he's not omnipotent, omnipresent, or even on the same level as most cosmic entities in the Marvel Universe. Simply put, Thanos (without the Infinity Gauntlet) probably couldn't kick Marduk Kurios/Satan's ass, but he definitely could push Mephisto around for a while if he wanted to (and he has reason to, because Mephisto played toady to him when he had the Infinity Gauntlet, with the goal of stealing it for himself).

Somehow, I think that if Peter Parker made a deal with Loki, people wouldn't have been half as mad as they were with it being Mephisto, and I think a lot of that stems from the belief that Mephisto is Marvel's version of Satan... And well, he's not. Not all the time, anyway. Only when it suits him... And Parker knew that.
 
2013-02-01 10:59:38 PM
When I was a kid shiat like this had me convinced this Superman fella was a total maniac:

i42.photobucket.com
i42.photobucket.com
i42.photobucket.com
i42.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-02 02:09:07 AM

ZeroCorpse: Somehow, I think that if Peter Parker made a deal with Loki, people wouldn't have been half as mad as they were with it being Mephisto, and I think a lot of that stems from the belief that Mephisto is Marvel's version of Satan... And well, he's not. Not all the time, anyway. Only when it suits him... And Parker knew that.


I don't think they are so much fixated on the "deal with the Devil" as much as they are fixated on "wow, Parker chose to have a backalley abortion of his kid after Planned Parenthood told him it would be a good idea to have it."
 
2013-02-02 06:34:47 AM
13, Turning Superman into a child molester.
www.funnyreign.com
 
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