Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.
Note: forcing pagination mode for this thread because of the high number of comments. (why?)

(My Fox Memphis)   And for today's school shooting we have... Atlanta. 14-year old in hospital with gunshot wound to the head, one faculty member injured   ( myfoxmemphis.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Carlos Campos, Grady Memorial Hospital, Atlanta Fire Department, DeKalb County, gunshot wound, elementary schools  
•       •       •

7757 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jan 2013 at 5:50 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



914 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest

 
2013-01-31 03:15:31 PM  
With only two victims, I guess we don't have to reset the "mass shooting" clock.
 
2013-01-31 03:19:56 PM  

ox45tallboy: With only two victims, I guess we don't have to reset the "mass shooting" clock.


If only we could find the particle that gives shootings mass.
 
2013-01-31 03:23:38 PM  

Relatively Obscure: If only we could find the particle that gives shootings mass.


The media seems to be identifying that particle as "the third victim", but that's not a great bit of comfort to the loved ones of the first two.
 
2013-01-31 03:26:02 PM  
We should just ban schools.
 
2013-01-31 03:26:09 PM  

ox45tallboy: Relatively Obscure: If only we could find the particle that gives shootings mass.

The media seems to be identifying that particle as "the third victim", but that's not a great bit of comfort to the loved ones of the first two.


Plus it's not very catchy.
 
2013-01-31 03:26:24 PM  
We need to arm all students.
 
2013-01-31 03:29:43 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: We need to arm all students.


only solution.  The only thing that stops a a Bad Guy with a gun is a Good Guy with a gun.
 
2013-01-31 03:32:01 PM  

Relatively Obscure: Plus it's not very catchy.


There's a 14-year old kid in the hospital with a gunshot wound to the head, and probably a couple of very distraught parents or other family members, and I'm considering making a joke about it because I'm becoming so jaded.

I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?
 
2013-01-31 03:33:11 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: We need to arm all students.


Or, hear me out here, we could amputate all students' arms.  Give 'em back after they graduate.  I bet it's hard to hit things with, like, toe guns and stuff.
 
2013-01-31 03:33:50 PM  

ambassador_ahab: AdolfOliverPanties: We need to arm all students.

only solution.  The only thing that stops a a Bad Guy with a gun is a Good Guy with a gun.


So... if LaPierre got his wish, in the best case scenario we would have the same number of victims here.
 
2013-01-31 03:35:43 PM  

ox45tallboy: There's a 14-year old kid in the hospital with a gunshot wound to the head, and probably a couple of very distraught parents or other family members, and I'm considering making a joke about it because I'm becoming so jaded.

I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?


Without reducing the availability of weapons.. hell if I know, man.  Uhm.  Tele-schooling?
 
2013-01-31 03:40:23 PM  

Relatively Obscure: ox45tallboy: With only two victims, I guess we don't have to reset the "mass shooting" clock.

If only we could find the particle that gives shootings mass.


I believe that's the "Godless" particle.  If only prayer were allowed in public schools...
 
2013-01-31 03:44:03 PM  

wxboy: If only prayer were allowed in public schools...


Jesus would have used an AR-15 instead of an AK-47 because he was NOT a godless commie.
 
2013-01-31 03:54:09 PM  

ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?


Not if you're not in favor of gun control.  That shiat needs to be heavily regulated.  Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.
 
2013-01-31 04:02:04 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?

Not if you're not in favor of gun control.  That shiat needs to be heavily regulated.  Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.


Or at least regulate guns at least as much as you do cars.  Licenses and insurance.
 
2013-01-31 04:06:53 PM  

texdent: We should just ban schools.


or give all the kids/teachers there scissors
 
2013-01-31 04:27:24 PM  

jchic: AdolfOliverPanties: ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?

Not if you're not in favor of gun control.  That shiat needs to be heavily regulated.  Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.

Or at least regulate guns at least as much as you do cars.  Licenses and insurance.


How exactly do you think that would stop things like this from happening?
 
2013-01-31 04:59:07 PM  

EatenTheSun: jchic: AdolfOliverPanties: ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?

Not if you're not in favor of gun control.  That shiat needs to be heavily regulated.  Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.

Or at least regulate guns at least as much as you do cars.  Licenses and insurance.

How exactly do you think that would stop things like this from happening?


Never said it would.  But then again how many automobile fatalities have been prevented by having operators restricted/licensed?  You can't say that X or Y would have prevented Z but you can decide that an item whose sole purpose is to destroy should be at least as regulated as many other items in our daily lives.
 
2013-01-31 05:27:04 PM  
This would have been avoided if that hapless faculty member had had a Mossberg to defend himself.....
 
2013-01-31 05:29:47 PM  

ox45tallboy: Relatively Obscure: If only we could find the particle that gives shootings mass.

The media seems to be identifying that particle as "the third victim", but that's not a great bit of comfort to the loved ones of the first two.


Yep, as with serial killers, you need three victims to count.
 
2013-01-31 05:31:32 PM  

ambassador_ahab: AdolfOliverPanties: We need to arm all students.

only solution.  The only thing that stops a a Bad Guy with a gun is a Good Guy with a gun.


Like the off-duty armed cop that works as the school resource officer?
 
2013-01-31 05:36:48 PM  
I think all gun threads at Fark should have to suddenly terminate after a 100 comment limit.
 
2013-01-31 05:42:31 PM  

whidbey: I think all gun threads at Fark should have to suddenly terminate after a 100 comment limit.


No one reads any farther than that, they just skip ahead until their comment posts and start reading there.
 
2013-01-31 05:42:53 PM  

ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.


ban this
www.jotdown.es
 
2013-01-31 05:52:14 PM  

robsul82: Yep, as with serial killers, you need three victims to count.


I see the grieving parents of a first or second victim thinking to themselves, "Thank God he's only dead because someone didn't like him, and not because he was a random victim of a mentally unbalanced individual!"

Although to be honest, they might be relieved that they wouldn't have to deal with all the media sensationalism and posturing by political activists shouting all the wrong details about the tragedy for the next decade or six.
 
2013-01-31 05:52:31 PM  
At this point I just sit back and listen the increasingly shrill cries from the gun nuts out there about this God-given right to go on shooting rampages.
 
2013-01-31 05:53:30 PM  
Was an assault rifle used? If no, it's not news worthy.
 
2013-01-31 05:54:15 PM  
1478 since Sandy Hook.

Also, did you know that 40% of felons obtained their guns at gun shows where there are often no background checks? You are Soft on Crime if you don't support changing the law to change this.
 
2013-01-31 05:55:31 PM  
Atlanta? Says it all right there.
 
Xai
2013-01-31 05:55:34 PM  
If only that guy had a gun, he would have been able to magically deflect the bullet from hitting the back of his head...
 
2013-01-31 05:55:49 PM  

Fark Rye For Many Whores: ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

ban this
[www.jotdown.es image 637x277]


If you can't use guns to shoot demon bulls in the face, what's the point of even having them?
 
2013-01-31 05:56:12 PM  

theorellior: At this point I just sit back and listen the increasingly shrill cries from the gun nuts out there about this God-given right to go on shooting rampages.


-10/10
 
2013-01-31 05:56:49 PM  
We should definitely arm teachers, because they are incompetent in every way. So we should trust them with guns. Cut their pay, though, because they don't deserve to be rich of us taxpayers.
 
2013-01-31 05:57:26 PM  
That's it!  I've heard enough.  Tomorrow when my kids go to school each one of them is going to be carrying a handgun in their backpacks for protection.
 
2013-01-31 05:57:29 PM  

The_Sponge: theorellior: At this point I just sit back and listen the increasingly shrill cries from the gun nuts out there about this God-given right to go on shooting rampages.

-10/10


More proof that gun nuts, are in, fact, nuts. Who have guns.
 
2013-01-31 05:57:55 PM  

jchic: EatenTheSun: jchic: AdolfOliverPanties: ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?

Not if you're not in favor of gun control.  That shiat needs to be heavily regulated.  Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.

Or at least regulate guns at least as much as you do cars.  Licenses and insurance.

How exactly do you think that would stop things like this from happening?

Never said it would.  But then again how many automobile fatalities have been prevented by having operators restricted/licensed?  You can't say that X or Y would have prevented Z but you can decide that an item whose sole purpose is to destroy should be at least as regulated as many other items in our daily lives.


Why don't you come out to Los Angeles.

You're quite likely to get in an accident with an unlicensed illegal, who usually takes off after the accident so he won't get arrested for being unlicensed and uninsured.

They're deliberately doing something illegal.

As for guns, the cat is out of the bag.  Several more cats will be coming out of the same bag as 3D CNC machining picks up.  Anyone and everyone will be able to print weapons.  Go look around the Internet for plans to the AR-15 and AK-47.  They're out there.  I've seen them.  If you have a copy of the file, you can make one.

If you're upset about violence, well, me too.  But I'm not going to chase my tail with feelgood nonsense that makes no difference at all.

This is a mental health and celebrity issue.  Mental health needs lots and lots and lots of funding.  Second, the press has to be restrained from playing up the celebrity angle.  When they go into 24 hour coverage and turn the shooter into a celebrity, it encourages others.  How many school shooters can you name?  How many victims can you name?  Exactly.
 
2013-01-31 05:58:59 PM  
The NRA could take the money it spends on hookers, blow and lobbying Congressmen and use it to provide discounted gun safes to gunowners with angsty teenage boys.

Or Congress could require all guns sold include a trigger lock.

Or they can make it a misdemeanor for you to have your gun used in a crime so that parents lock it up.
 
2013-01-31 05:59:12 PM  

ghare: The_Sponge: theorellior: At this point I just sit back and listen the increasingly shrill cries from the gun nuts out there about this God-given right to go on shooting rampages.

-10/10

More proof that gun nuts, are in, fact, nuts. Who have guns.


Yeah, I'm a real nut case for calling out an obvious troll.
 
2013-01-31 05:59:16 PM  
Seriously! Stop reporting this shiat! It just spawns copycats.

Also; can we admit that guns are inanimate objects that wouldn't function without people?

It isn't a gun control issue; it's a PEOPLE control issue. Until you can ensure that everyone aren't going to become murderous sociopaths; you're just ignoring the actual issue
 
2013-01-31 06:00:02 PM  

iheartscotch: Seriously! Stop reporting this shiat! It just spawns copycats.

Also; can we admit that guns are inanimate objects that wouldn't function without people?

It isn't a gun control issue; it's a PEOPLE control issue. Until you can ensure that everyone aren't going to become murderous sociopaths; you're just ignoring the actual issue


You sound like you want to arm criminals and terrorists... why do you hate Family Values and want to be Soft on Crime?
 
2013-01-31 06:00:23 PM  
Do we have to count gang shootings, one-off incidents, and 1 or 2 victims as "school shootings" now? Because it's going to have to big newspaper to serve houston and LA..
 
2013-01-31 06:00:23 PM  
This is just normal; there's no need to do anything, we can't do anything, and even if we did do something it wouldn't achieve anything.
 
2013-01-31 06:00:37 PM  

ghare: The_Sponge: theorellior: At this point I just sit back and listen the increasingly shrill cries from the gun nuts out there about this God-given right to go on shooting rampages.

-10/10

More proof that gun nuts, are in, fact, nuts. Who have guns.


If that is proof to you, you must be simple.
 
2013-01-31 06:00:53 PM  

iheartscotch: Seriously! Stop reporting this shiat! It just spawns copycats.

Also; can we admit that guns are inanimate objects that wouldn't function without people?

It isn't a gun control issue; it's a PEOPLE control issue. Until you can ensure that everyone aren't going to become murderous sociopaths; you're just ignoring the actual issue


As much as I hate the "people will commit these crimes with another weapon" defense, this kid could have easily walked up behind the guy and slit his throat. He had the motivation to do so and one of many tools to accomplish it.
 
2013-01-31 06:01:03 PM  

iheartscotch: Seriously! Stop reporting this shiat! It just spawns copycats.

Also; can we admit that guns are inanimate objects that wouldn't function without people?

It isn't a gun control issue; it's a PEOPLE control issue. Until you can ensure that everyone aren't going to become murderous sociopaths; you're just ignoring the actual issue


Yeah buh-buh I don't want Obummer to raise my taxes any more. Welfare DEADBEATS.
HURRR.
 
2013-01-31 06:01:35 PM  
When will we wake up and flood the school system with firearms?
 
2013-01-31 06:01:43 PM  
Is it possible that the victims are of a certain... umm...  "demographic" that will allow the the derp brigade to claim this is gang related?

Because based on what I've been reading from the derpers, there is absolutely nothing that can ever be done about gang related shootings, and therefore they don't count.
 
2013-01-31 06:02:00 PM  

Crocoduck: When will we wake up and flood the school system with firearms?


1986
 
2013-01-31 06:02:12 PM  
These shootings were happening all along, they just get news coverage now because of the general level of public outrage.
 
2013-01-31 06:02:19 PM  

iheartscotch: Seriously! Stop reporting this shiat! It just spawns copycats.


And here comes the Blame The Media crowd.....
 
2013-01-31 06:03:27 PM  
Gun fetishists agree:  More guns = more safety.  Therefore, infinite number of guns = infinite amount of safety.

MORE GUNS - unless you HATE SAFETY!
 
2013-01-31 06:03:29 PM  
This is not the time to show "Bullet to the Head" in movie theaters.
 
2013-01-31 06:03:42 PM  
I really do not think this is a gun issue, and I am starting to even wonder if its a mental health issue..

I think the counter to this is nothing more then more death. A good plague has not swept threw our culture in a long ass time, so at the moment, we are packed like rats on top of one another going ape shiat and fighting for a tiny little spot of peace in a world full of everyone trying to decide everyone elses business. Maybe if that happened, we could all get breathing room and not go nuthouse on the ones of us left alive.
 
2013-01-31 06:03:55 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: iheartscotch: Seriously! Stop reporting this shiat! It just spawns copycats.

Also; can we admit that guns are inanimate objects that wouldn't function without people?

It isn't a gun control issue; it's a PEOPLE control issue. Until you can ensure that everyone aren't going to become murderous sociopaths; you're just ignoring the actual issue

You sound like you want to arm criminals and terrorists... why do you hate Family Values and want to be Soft on Crime?


Message received; no reason or logic in gun threads.

/ it's against teh rooles
 
2013-01-31 06:04:12 PM  

ox45tallboy: Relatively Obscure: Plus it's not very catchy.

There's a 14-year old kid in the hospital with a gunshot wound to the head, and probably a couple of very distraught parents or other family members, and I'm considering making a joke about it because I'm becoming so jaded.

I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?


Pre-shoot all the kids. No one wants to shoot a kid that's already been shot.
Freedom isn't free.
 
2013-01-31 06:04:14 PM  

grxymkjbn: Gun fetishists agree:  More guns = more safety.  Therefore, infinite number of guns = infinite amount of safety.

MORE GUNS - unless you HATE SAFETY!


An armed school is a polite school.
 
2013-01-31 06:04:18 PM  

ox45tallboy: Relatively Obscure: Plus it's not very catchy.

There's a 14-year old kid in the hospital with a gunshot wound to the head, and probably a couple of very distraught parents or other family members, and I'm considering making a joke about it because I'm becoming so jaded.

I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?


Not going to touch the gun control part, but there is the social and psychological reasons. Giving these shootings less press coverage and media frenzy would be a great step to prevent kids from getting the idea shooting someone in the way to glory/fame/infamy/etc.
 
2013-01-31 06:04:45 PM  
It's a 14 year old boy with the head wound.  There's nothing up there right now anyway but a burning desire to touch boobs and fap.  No big deal.   Let him touch some titties and he'll be on his way inside of a week.
 
2013-01-31 06:05:41 PM  
Isn't this like a daily occurrence in Chicago?
 
2013-01-31 06:05:44 PM  
Because gun free disarmed victim zones work
 
2013-01-31 06:05:50 PM  
According to the article:

In a press conference, Atlanta Public Schools Superintendent Erroll Davis said that there was hope that the student could be released from the hospital on Thursday night.

Either the shooter had very poor aim, or the shooter used a .22LR caliber firearm. Both may be true.

That no other individuals were shot strongly suggests that the injured student was specifically targeted.
 
2013-01-31 06:05:52 PM  

Somaticasual: Do we have to count gang shootings, one-off incidents, and 1 or 2 victims as "school shootings" now? Because it's going to have to big newspaper to serve houston and LA..


Why don't victims of gang shootings count?   Are they less dead?   Or do they have some other "demographic" that makes you think they're worth less than you?
 
2013-01-31 06:06:08 PM  
Take the time to go over Google's archived newspapers.  You'll see this has been going on for decades, except now, the media has an interest in creating outrage.

The same way they tried to create mass hysteria/ outrage with

SARS
H1N1
Mad Cow
AIDS
The 1%

etc

They always troll, because it works every damn time.
 
2013-01-31 06:06:36 PM  
Hrmmm, one student shot and one teacher shot, possibly while trying to protect said student.

You got gun thread in my bully thread!
 
2013-01-31 06:06:39 PM  
Was a gun used in self defense? If not ignore and carry on. Otherwise 'Murica Fark Yeah!!!!
 
2013-01-31 06:06:49 PM  

edmo: iheartscotch: Seriously! Stop reporting this shiat! It just spawns copycats.

And here comes the Blame The Media crowd.....


Yeah, stupid freedom of press.
 
2013-01-31 06:07:02 PM  

whidbey: iheartscotch: Seriously! Stop reporting this shiat! It just spawns copycats.

Also; can we admit that guns are inanimate objects that wouldn't function without people?

It isn't a gun control issue; it's a PEOPLE control issue. Until you can ensure that everyone aren't going to become murderous sociopaths; you're just ignoring the actual issue

Yeah buh-buh I don't want Obummer to raise my taxes any more. Welfare DEADBEATS.
HURRR.


Ah I see; banana, wildebeest, snorkel. Does that clear up my position?

/ see? I can type random stuff too
 
2013-01-31 06:07:23 PM  
Old and busted: student/teacher sex. New hotness: student/teacher gunfights.

/I know the teacher wasn't shot, but the power of the meme compelled me
 
2013-01-31 06:07:45 PM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: Hrmmm, one student shot and one teacher shot, possibly while trying to protect said student.

You got gun thread in my bully thread!


No teachers were shot.
 
2013-01-31 06:07:46 PM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: Hrmmm, one student shot and one teacher shot, possibly while trying to protect said student.

You got gun thread in my bully thread!


The article:
That teacher was not shot.
 
2013-01-31 06:07:54 PM  
Atlanta public school + Google images of said school.
 
2013-01-31 06:08:17 PM  

scotchcrotch: edmo: iheartscotch: Seriously! Stop reporting this shiat! It just spawns copycats.

And here comes the Blame The Media crowd.....

Yeah, stupid freedom of press.


Freedom of the Press can and is often abused, though.

See: Faux "News"
 
2013-01-31 06:09:22 PM  

edmo: iheartscotch: Seriously! Stop reporting this shiat! It just spawns copycats.

And here comes the Blame The Media crowd.....


How is it not a function of media fixation? We're talking about mentally unstable people. Psyco monkey see; psyco monkey do.
 
2013-01-31 06:10:19 PM  

Treygreen13: Zarquon's Flat Tire: Hrmmm, one student shot and one teacher shot, possibly while trying to protect said student.

You got gun thread in my bully thread!

The article:
That teacher was not shot.


Ah, see that's what I get for basing my comment off of earlier radio reports instead of reading the article.

Apologies everyone
 
2013-01-31 06:10:34 PM  

Randomly: The NRA could take the money it spends on hookers, blow and lobbying Congressmen and use it to provide discounted gun safes to gunowners with angsty teenage boys.

Or Congress could require all guns sold include a trigger lock.

Or they can make it a misdemeanor for you to have your gun used in a crime so that parents lock it up.


My Taurus has an integrated trigger lock. Just don't require me to keep it locked in a way that renders it useless for personal or home defense.
 
2013-01-31 06:11:06 PM  

whidbey: Welfare DEADBEATS.



Remember when you were one?
 
2013-01-31 06:11:56 PM  

TheHumanCannonball: Not going to touch the gun control part, but there is the social and psychological reasons. Giving these shootings less press coverage and media frenzy would be a great step to prevent kids from getting the idea shooting someone in the way to glory/fame/infamy/etc.


Seconded. It makes you wonder - what if the media just started giving every school shooter a really insulting nickname.. You probably wouldn't see as many copycat shootings if they thought they were going to be less "BTK" or "VT killer" and more "Poser #72" or "some douche with a gun"
 
2013-01-31 06:12:16 PM  
And for today's school shooting we have... (spins chamber) Atlanta.

Sad...FTFY
 
2013-01-31 06:12:17 PM  
Another day, another shooting.
 
2013-01-31 06:12:18 PM  
false alarm, it was black people, gun grabbers and gun nuts can stand down.
 
2013-01-31 06:12:33 PM  
AdolfOliverPanties

We need to arm all students.
Wow, 3 whole posts before this tired old hyperbole.

Gunowner say: Right to Keep and Bear arms
Hoplophobes Claim we said: You want to own Nuclear weapons!

Gunowner say: Arm guards or trained rational adults to protect schools
Hoplophobes Claim we said: Hand kindergardeners S&W 500's
**bonus points for this one as FARK Hypocrites (aka leftists) bashed the NRA when they called for it, yet ~4 days later when obmessiah called for it they fell to their knees in worship.**
 
2013-01-31 06:14:42 PM  

ph0rk: These shootings were happening all along, they just get news coverage now because of the general level of public outrage.


iheartscotch: Seriously! Stop reporting this shiat! It just spawns copycats.


Both of these statements can not be correct.
 
2013-01-31 06:15:54 PM  
ambassador_ahab

>>>> AdolfOliverPanties: We need to arm all students.

only solution. The only thing that stops a a Bad Guy with a gun is a Good Guy with a gun.

Well we certainly have seen your plan to work. You wanted bad guys stopped by disarming responsible adults.
So what has stopped "Bad Guys with a gun"? A shiatload of children's bodies. But hey! Now you have the talking points you wanted, so ... Mission Accomplished!
 
2013-01-31 06:15:55 PM  
I ban all of you
 
2013-01-31 06:16:04 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: 1478 since Sandy Hook.

Also, did you know that 40% of felons obtained their guns at gun shows where there are often no background checks? You are Soft on Crime if you don't support changing the law to change this.


If we can't trust a felon who has served their sentence (including any parole) then we probably shouldn't let them out of prison until we do.

Same with allowing them to vote.  Have any of these recent mass shooters had a criminal record when they committed their crimes?
 
2013-01-31 06:16:31 PM  

OnlyM3: Gunowner say: Arm guards or trained rational adults to protect schools


I see. So you're just going to pretend that a bunch of gun nuts nationwide haven't called for the arming of teachers?
 
2013-01-31 06:17:36 PM  
I don't understand folks who are surprised by the amount of school shootings when the media does such a bang-up job of publicizing it.  Almost glorifying it, in a way.  They make the shooter farking famous with all their reports, and to an ill mind, it could be telling them "this is the answer to my problems".  So another happens, the media hypes it, and the cycle continues.  Guns are a very small part of the problem.  What we should be concerned about is the abysmal work we've been doing in aiding those with mental health problems.  We must get better at detecting such ailments, and helping to treat them as soon as humanly possible.  And the media should stop farking hyping this shiat.
 
2013-01-31 06:18:39 PM  
The news is saying its a flesh wound and the situation possibly evolved out of bullying. The question now is where'd the other kid get the gun? If it is his parents, they need to held accountable.

I had to change the channel - sick of seeing reporters jam microphones in kid's faces.
 
2013-01-31 06:19:14 PM  
Who are the biggest threat to Americans: terrorists, or each other?

www.mindparts.org
 
2013-01-31 06:20:13 PM  

Cornelius Dribble: ph0rk: These shootings were happening all along, they just get news coverage now because of the general level of public outrage.

iheartscotch: Seriously! Stop reporting this shiat! It just spawns copycats.

Both of these statements can not be correct.


I feel what was ment; shootings in general were happening at the same frequency before; but went unreported on.

Where, I said; reporting causes copycats. It's been shown dozens of times that some people see a shooting on the news and seek to emulate that.
 
2013-01-31 06:20:15 PM  

OnlyM3: AdolfOliverPanties

We need to arm all students. Wow, 3 whole posts before this tired old hyperbole.

Gunowner say: Right to Keep and Bear arms
Hoplophobes Claim we said: You want to own Nuclear weapons!

Gunowner say: Arm guards or trained rational adults to protect schools
Hoplophobes Claim we said: Hand kindergardeners S&W 500's
**bonus points for this one as FARK Hypocrites (aka leftists) bashed the NRA when they called for it, yet ~4 days later when obmessiah called for it they fell to their knees in worship.**




Mmm hmm.
 
2013-01-31 06:20:26 PM  
AdolfOliverPanties

Not if you're not in favor of gun control. That shiat needs to be heavily regulated. Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.
We've seen you blame Reagan for the nation's mental health issues, yet you've had 8 years w/ clinton and 4+ with obama. If such a serious issue, why has your party chosen to ignore the issue? Waiting for the body count to get high enough?

So tel us oh enlightened one. How would a background check have stopped Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc...?
 
2013-01-31 06:20:34 PM  
imgboot.com
 
2013-01-31 06:20:47 PM  
Why does this keep happening?
 
2013-01-31 06:21:23 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: 1478 since Sandy Hook.

Also, did you know that 40% of felons obtained their guns at gun shows where there are often no background checks? You are Soft on Crime if you don't support changing the law to change this.


There was a study that showed that 40% of transfers of firearms didn't take place at a license dealer.  Of that 40%, over 30% was transfers to friends and family.  Furthermore, most of the dealers at gun shows are FFLs, and they will always run background checks, regardless of state.  At the shows I've been to (in a gun friendly state), 1-2% or so of the sellers weren't FFLs, and they sold a very, very small percentage of the guns.

I bought a gun as a gift for my wife to use in self defense.  That would be counted in the 40%, even though I passed a background check, and she could just fine.  I also traded a gun to a friend for another gun.  Despite adding no new guns, and the fact that both of us have CCWs (meaning we passed a more strict background check, including fingerprints), both guns would be included in the 40% as well.

There is no gun show loophole.
 
2013-01-31 06:21:51 PM  
meanwhile, in the real world that is divorced from the ratings whoring 24/7 news channels:

violent crime is near record lows
http://news.discovery.com/human/violent-crime-statistics-120612.htm
 
2013-01-31 06:22:32 PM  
Princess Ryans Knickers

1478 since Sandy Hook.

Also, did you know that 40% of felons obtained their guns at gun shows where there are often no background checks?

You need to phone in for new talking points. That lie was debunked weeks ago.
// not that the left has ever let little things like facts get in the way of their deranged ramblings.
 
2013-01-31 06:23:08 PM  
If only there had been a policeman with a gun there, then he could have stopped this before it got out of hand!

"The suspect was disarmed and taken into custody by a school resource officer, according to Davis."


Oh...  Well, we should have laws against Middle School children owning guns!!!!
 
2013-01-31 06:24:06 PM  

OnlyM3: **bonus points for this one as FARK Hypocrites (aka leftists) bashed the NRA when they called for it, yet ~4 days later when obmessiah called for it they fell to their knees in worship.**


I'm what you call a "leftist" (in reality I'm probably more of a centrist in a global perspective, but alas), I have no problem having armed police officers in schools.

Makes more sense than having teachers packing heat in the classroom.

But this should NOT be the only take away from these tragic events. That's what the "leftists" were trying to point out.
 
2013-01-31 06:24:22 PM  

libranoelrose: Why does this keep happening?


A culture of war and gun worship.  Well, that's my take on it.  YMMV.
 
2013-01-31 06:25:04 PM  

Click Click D'oh: If only there had been a policeman with a gun there, then he could have stopped this before it got out of hand!

"The suspect was disarmed and taken into custody by a school resource officer, according to Davis."


Oh...  Well, we should have laws against Middle School children owning guns!!!!


I agree, having armed police officers does help.

Is this the only lesson we should be learning from this?
 
2013-01-31 06:25:14 PM  

EatenTheSun: jchic: AdolfOliverPanties: ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?

Not if you're not in favor of gun control.  That shiat needs to be heavily regulated.  Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.

Or at least regulate guns at least as much as you do cars.  Licenses and insurance.

How exactly do you think that would stop things like this from happening?


I don't know, but a minor got his hands on a gun and ammunition and brought it to school and shot someone in the head with it. Maybe we should hold the owner of the gun and ammo at least partially responsible for this? Maybe then people will be a little more careful with their guns.
 
2013-01-31 06:26:24 PM  
Treygreen13

Zarquon's Flat Tire: Hrmmm, one student shot and one teacher shot, possibly while trying to protect said student.

You got gun thread in my bully thread!

The article:
That teacher was not shot.

You're not expecting honesty or literacy from these deranged fools are you?
 
2013-01-31 06:26:33 PM  

OnlyM3: So tel us oh enlightened one. How would a background check have stopped Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc...?


You mean how would this country have benefited from having a uniform system of standards regarding gun ownership if we had enacted policies  decades ago, don't you?
 
2013-01-31 06:26:38 PM  
What? Since she's black it's only "Sad"?  Only white kids get the "Newsflash"?
 
2013-01-31 06:27:14 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Maybe we should hold the owner of the gun and ammo at least partially responsible for this? Maybe then people will be a little more careful with their guns.


I like this idea.

But sadly a lot of people won't.
 
2013-01-31 06:28:22 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Mike Chewbacca: Maybe we should hold the owner of the gun and ammo at least partially responsible for this? Maybe then people will be a little more careful with their guns.

I like this idea.

But sadly a lot of people won't.


Seems fair enough to me.   What would be the objection?
 
2013-01-31 06:29:01 PM  

DittoToo: What? Since she's black it's only "Sad"?  Only white kids get the "Newsflash"?


I just think this whole thing is sad.

We got some wacko holding a kid hostage in Alabama and now this.

I'm just sick of it all. What the fark has happened to this country?
 
2013-01-31 06:29:02 PM  

jchic: AdolfOliverPanties: ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?

Not if you're not in favor of gun control.  That shiat needs to be heavily regulated.  Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.

Or at least regulate guns at least as much as you do cars.  Licenses and insurance.


You do realize that car insurance is to fix someone else s car if you cause an accident.  (Or pay their medical bills).  It doesn't even remotely decrease the frequency of accidents, so in this case, it's a f*cking "gun fee" plain and simple.
 
2013-01-31 06:29:26 PM  
whidbey

>>> OnlyM3: Gunowner say: Arm guards or trained rational adults to protect schools

I see. So you're just going to pretend that a bunch of gun nuts nationwide haven't called for the arming of teachers?

So you're just going to pretend that the fools I was responding too were saying we called for the arming children?

You're saying no teachers are not "rational adults"?
 
2013-01-31 06:30:14 PM  

The Larch: Somaticasual: Do we have to count gang shootings, one-off incidents, and 1 or 2 victims as "school shootings" now? Because it's going to have to big newspaper to serve houston and LA..

Why don't victims of gang shootings count?   Are they less dead?   Or do they have some other "demographic" that makes you think they're worth less than you?


Different motivations, and they'll require different tactics to counter. A "school shooter" is going for a body count and wants the location to be a heinous as possible. A gang shooting targets a specific individual (possibly individuals), and in this case (possibly, but it's looking like a gang shooting) just happened to be at a school.
 
2013-01-31 06:30:39 PM  

OnlyM3: whidbey

>>> OnlyM3: Gunowner say: Arm guards or trained rational adults to protect schools

I see. So you're just going to pretend that a bunch of gun nuts nationwide haven't called for the arming of teachers?
So you're just going to pretend that the fools I was responding too were saying we called for the arming children?

You're saying no teachers are not "rational adults"?


I think it's a pretty farked up idea to even consider arming teachers myself.

That's a liability waiting to happen.
 
2013-01-31 06:30:48 PM  

Farkage: jchic: AdolfOliverPanties: ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?

Not if you're not in favor of gun control.  That shiat needs to be heavily regulated.  Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.

Or at least regulate guns at least as much as you do cars.  Licenses and insurance.

You do realize that car insurance is to fix someone else s car if you cause an accident.  (Or pay their medical bills).  It doesn't even remotely decrease the frequency of accidents, so in this case, it's a f*cking "gun fee" plain and simple.


And? If someone's irresponsibility allowed someone else to be harmed by their firearm, shouldn't the victim be assured their losses will be covered?
 
2013-01-31 06:31:13 PM  
Mike Chewbacca:  I don't know, but a minor got his hands on a gun and ammunition and brought it to school and shot someone in the head with it. Maybe we should hold the owner of the gun and ammo at least partially responsible for this? Maybe then people will be a little more careful with their guns.

What makes you think they won't?  Every state I know the firearms laws in makes it a crime if a minor gains access to a firearm and hurts themselves or another person.
 
2013-01-31 06:31:16 PM  
I wonder if this the plan: Flood streets with guns, shootings just about every day, so therefore it always be too soon to talk about gun control
 
2013-01-31 06:31:28 PM  

OnlyM3: Princess Ryans Knickers

1478 since Sandy Hook.

Also, did you know that 40% of felons obtained their guns at gun shows where there are often no background checks?
You need to phone in for new talking points. That lie was debunked weeks ago.
// not that the left has ever let little things like facts get in the way of their deranged ramblings.


Debunked how? Care to point to some actual facts? The 40% comes from the FBI which you can easily find on Google.
 
2013-01-31 06:31:29 PM  
Remember the good-ol'-days when you would get into an argument with someone and you would get your ass thouroughly kicked?  I really miss those days.
 
2013-01-31 06:31:49 PM  

Mrtraveler01: DittoToo: What? Since she's black it's only "Sad"?  Only white kids get the "Newsflash"?

I just think this whole thing is sad.

We got some wacko holding a kid hostage in Alabama and now this.

I'm just sick of it all. What the fark has happened to this country?


I wouldn't be surprised if the loss of decent jobs and lowering of wages while huge corporations continue to profit massively might have something to do with it.

People are basically losing hope despite attempts at social progress.
 
2013-01-31 06:32:05 PM  

ambassador_ahab: wxboy: If only prayer were allowed in public schools...

Jesus would have used an AR-15 instead of an AK-47 because he was NOT a godless commie.


No, he was a Jew so he would likely prefer a Tavor, UZI, or a good old fashioned Desert Eagle.
 
2013-01-31 06:32:09 PM  

whidbey: Mrtraveler01: Mike Chewbacca: Maybe we should hold the owner of the gun and ammo at least partially responsible for this? Maybe then people will be a little more careful with their guns.

I like this idea.

But sadly a lot of people won't.

Seems fair enough to me.   What would be the objection?


Strict liability, without exception, would be objectionable. A defined minimum and reasonable standard of security which, if followed, renders a firearm owner immune to any liability if that security is bypassed by an unauthorized individual should address any rational objection.
 
2013-01-31 06:32:27 PM  

Kathrin: There is no gun show loophole.


False, NRA's LaPierre stated, and you can find this video on YouTube, to Congress that there IS a gun show loophole.
 
2013-01-31 06:32:41 PM  

OnlyM3: whidbey

>>> OnlyM3: Gunowner say: Arm guards or trained rational adults to protect schools

I see. So you're just going to pretend that a bunch of gun nuts nationwide haven't called for the arming of teachers?
So you're just going to pretend that the fools I was responding too were saying we called for the arming children?

You're saying no teachers are not "rational adults"?


They don't have any business carrying weapons, <B>OnlyM3</B>. For fark's sake.
 
2013-01-31 06:32:53 PM  

Herb Utsmelz

Can-stop-a-badguy-with-a-gun.jpg



Thankfully disarmed victims can... ohh.. wait.
 
2013-01-31 06:33:26 PM  

whidbey: Seems fair enough to me. What would be the objection?


Depends on how he got it. Did his folks/friends make no effort to keep it away from him? Charge them. Did they take reasonable precautions and he still managed to steal it? Leave them alone.
 
2013-01-31 06:34:52 PM  

Dimensio: whidbey: Mrtraveler01: Mike Chewbacca: Maybe we should hold the owner of the gun and ammo at least partially responsible for this? Maybe then people will be a little more careful with their guns.

I like this idea.

But sadly a lot of people won't.

Seems fair enough to me.   What would be the objection?

Strict liability, without exception, would be objectionable. A defined minimum and reasonable standard of security which, if followed, renders a firearm owner immune to any liability if that security is bypassed by an unauthorized individual should address any rational objection.


If your weapon caused a murder, then YOU should be also held accountable for it.

Guns are not like any other item on this planet.  They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.
 
2013-01-31 06:35:15 PM  
DYK that convicted felons can legally purchase guns in Ohio? This is just one of MANY states that allow it.
 
2013-01-31 06:35:36 PM  

ItchyMcDoogle: I wonder if this the plan: Flood streets with guns, shootings just about every day, so therefore it always be too soon to talk about gun control


Not really. Gun violence is going down, and has been for a long time. Reporting, however, has gone up.
 
2013-01-31 06:35:40 PM  

libranoelrose: Why does this keep happening?


Because people are assholes.

I mean, at the end of the day, all we have as a society and a species is to tell ourselves, "Hey, don't do that, it's bad."

People no longer do that.
 
2013-01-31 06:36:02 PM  
Maybe we should start using the Obvious tag for stories about shootings. Or Repeat.
 
2013-01-31 06:36:13 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: whidbey: Seems fair enough to me. What would be the objection?

Depends on how he got it. Did his folks/friends make no effort to keep it away from him? Charge them. Did they take reasonable precautions and he still managed to steal it? Leave them alone.


Disagree, obviously.  If the weapon ended up stolen, then whatever "reasonable precaution"  put in place didn't work.
 
2013-01-31 06:36:23 PM  

whidbey: Dimensio: whidbey: Mrtraveler01: Mike Chewbacca: Maybe we should hold the owner of the gun and ammo at least partially responsible for this? Maybe then people will be a little more careful with their guns.

I like this idea.

But sadly a lot of people won't.

Seems fair enough to me.   What would be the objection?

Strict liability, without exception, would be objectionable. A defined minimum and reasonable standard of security which, if followed, renders a firearm owner immune to any liability if that security is bypassed by an unauthorized individual should address any rational objection.

If your weapon caused a murder, then YOU should be also held accountable for it.

Guns are not like any other item on this planet.  They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.


If a firearm owner secures his firearm in a secure locked storage unit, and a thief breaks into the owner's home, then breaks the locked storage unit and obtains the firearm, holding the firearm owner liable for criminal acts committed with use of the firearm is entirely unreasonable.
 
2013-01-31 06:36:28 PM  

whidbey: Guns are not like any other item on this planet.


Bull honkey.

whidbey: They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.


How do you make something theft-proof?
 
2013-01-31 06:36:48 PM  

OnlyM3: Treygreen13

Zarquon's Flat Tire: Hrmmm, one student shot and one teacher shot, possibly while trying to protect said student.

You got gun thread in my bully thread!

The article:
That teacher was not shot.
You're not expecting honesty or literacy from these deranged fools are you?


Missed the part where I apologized for getting my information from an earlier news report did you?  Also, does making a joke automatically mean I am opposed to reasonable gun control?
 
2013-01-31 06:39:02 PM  
Mrtraveler01

OnlyM3: **bonus points for this one as FARK Hypocrites (aka leftists) bashed the NRA when they called for it, yet ~4 days later when obmessiah called for it they fell to their knees in worship.**

I'm what you call a "leftist" (in reality I'm probably more of a centrist in a global perspective, but alas), I have no problem having armed police officers in schools.

Makes more sense than having teachers packing heat in the classroom.

Really? Why? Who are the first adults these evil sob's encounter? Why not allow the first person (adult) on scene a chance to save lives? Please remember in your reply, that "training" was part of the proposition.

Lets say we go your way and have 1 cop on every campus. Hell make it two. How hard would it be for some loon to distract those 2 (or just wait till they're wandering in some other location) and have open season?
 
2013-01-31 06:39:18 PM  
If mental health issues were discovered and addressed early and more thoroughly this kind of thing would not happen as much. Oh but providing universal care would be socialist so forget that. Guns don't kill people. Angry, crazy people kill people with whatever weapon they get their hands on.
 
2013-01-31 06:39:25 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: whidbey: Guns are not like any other item on this planet.

Bull honkey.

whidbey: They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.

How do you make something theft-proof?


If the item is something as dangerous as a firearm,  you had better think of something at least 99% effective,
 
2013-01-31 06:39:31 PM  
Isolated incident #1,000,780,987

USA USA USA
 
2013-01-31 06:39:44 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Debunked how? Care to point to some actual facts? The 40% comes from the FBI which you can easily find on Google.


Not quite true as represented.  The 40% number is for all transactions.  40% of gun sales are from private.  Not necessarily at gun shows, and not necessarily to felons.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

There's is the study where the factoid comes from.  Page 6.
 
2013-01-31 06:39:56 PM  
I hate guns, particularly handguns, and I do not think most people should be allowed to own them.
And I'm sorry that this kid got shot.

That being said, having lived through my share of crap from assholes while I was in school, I'm also going to say that my first thought in this case was "I bet the kid that got shot is a huge bully."
 
2013-01-31 06:40:05 PM  

The_Sponge: ghare: The_Sponge: theorellior: At this point I just sit back and listen the increasingly shrill cries from the gun nuts out there about this God-given right to go on shooting rampages.

-10/10

More proof that gun nuts, are in, fact, nuts. Who have guns.

Yeah, I'm a real nut case for calling out an obvious troll.


Part of me was trolling, part of me wasn't. I don't have a problem with guns, shooting or hunting. I do have a problem with nutso people who seem to think a tool designed for taking human life is a holy relic that should be treated with so much fetishistic respect that every other consideration becomes secondary to the Rights of the Gun.
 
2013-01-31 06:40:49 PM  
whidbey

OnlyM3: So tel us oh enlightened one. How would a background check have stopped Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc...?

You mean how would this country have benefited from having a uniform system of standards regarding gun ownership if we had enacted policies decades ago, don't you?

I see you failed to answer the direct question. Care to try again?
 
2013-01-31 06:40:53 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Mike Chewbacca:  I don't know, but a minor got his hands on a gun and ammunition and brought it to school and shot someone in the head with it. Maybe we should hold the owner of the gun and ammo at least partially responsible for this? Maybe then people will be a little more careful with their guns.

What makes you think they won't?  Every state I know the firearms laws in makes it a crime if a minor gains access to a firearm and hurts themselves or another person.


Oh, I don't know, history, maybe? Robyn Anderson bought Harris and Klebold 3 of the 4 guns used in the Columbine massacre. But because she had no knowledge of her plans, she was never charged with a crime. Mark Manes sold the fourth weapon and some ammo to Klebold and "was charged with one count of unlawfully providing or permitting a juvenile to possess a handgun. Manes was also charged with one count of possession of a dangerous or illegal weapon because he had gone shooting with Klebold and Harris in March 1999 and had shot one of their sawed off shotguns. "
 
2013-01-31 06:40:59 PM  

OnlyM3: Lets say we go your way and have 1 cop on every campus. Hell make it two. How hard would it be for some loon to distract those 2 (or just wait till they're wandering in some other location) and have open season?


So you don't support having police officers stationed on campus?
 
2013-01-31 06:41:13 PM  

Dimensio: Guns are not like any other item on this planet. They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.

If a firearm owner secures his firearm in a secure locked storage unit, and a thief breaks into the owner's home, then breaks the locked storage unit and obtains the firearm, holding the firearm owner liable for criminal acts committed with use of the firearm is entirely unreasonable.


Seriously, tell that to the judge and jury.

It's unreasonable to assume that a gun owner would automatically  be immune from responsibility, even in the case of such unlikely events.
 
2013-01-31 06:41:20 PM  

Rufus Lee King: Herb Utsmelz: A culture of war

[ian.macky.net image 850x598]


Change the clothes and weapons and here we are.
 
2013-01-31 06:41:41 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Farkage: jchic: AdolfOliverPanties: ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?

Not if you're not in favor of gun control.  That shiat needs to be heavily regulated.  Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.

Or at least regulate guns at least as much as you do cars.  Licenses and insurance.

You do realize that car insurance is to fix someone else s car if you cause an accident.  (Or pay their medical bills).  It doesn't even remotely decrease the frequency of accidents, so in this case, it's a f*cking "gun fee" plain and simple.

And? If someone's irresponsibility allowed someone else to be harmed by their firearm, shouldn't the victim be assured their losses will be covered?


Yep.  Sue them, just like what happens now.  Do you own a hammer or club?  Maybe you should get insurance just in case.  After all, I don't know you or what you're capable of...
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/01/03/fbi-hammers-clubs-kill-mor e- people-than-rifles-shotguns/
 
2013-01-31 06:41:49 PM  

atomicmask: I really do not think this is a gun issue, and I am starting to even wonder if its a mental health issue..

I think the counter to this is nothing more then more death. A good plague has not swept threw our culture in a long ass time, so at the moment, we are packed like rats on top of one another going ape shiat and fighting for a tiny little spot of peace in a world full of everyone trying to decide everyone elses business. Maybe if that happened, we could all get breathing room and not go nuthouse on the ones of us left alive.


Well, when you gleefully encourage people to use chemical weapons on their own population on the virtue that brown people dying doesn't really matter a comment like this doesn't really shock people.
 
2013-01-31 06:41:54 PM  

The Larch: Somat


Ignoring the fact you're just trolling for racism, no. Their lives are no less as meaningful, but the intent is usually to kill one or more specific gang members in gang shootings- not over 20 random kids that just got killed for showing up that day because of one twisted spree shooter.
 
2013-01-31 06:42:17 PM  

texdent: We should just ban schools.


But if we ban schools then only fish will have schools. And don't think for a minute they won't use them.
 
2013-01-31 06:43:42 PM  

ambassador_ahab: AdolfOliverPanties: We need to arm all students.

only solution.  The only thing that stops a a Bad Guy with a gun is a Good Guy with a gun.



The other effective solution is to throw waves of children at the bad guy till he runs out of bullets. Brannigans war strategy for children.
i4.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-31 06:44:05 PM  

OnlyM3: whidbey

OnlyM3: So tel us oh enlightened one. How would a background check have stopped Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc...?

You mean how would this country have benefited from having a uniform system of standards regarding gun ownership if we had enacted policies decades ago, don't you?
I see you failed to answer the direct question. Care to try again?


I did answer it.

You didn't care for the answser.

If we had had a longtime system of standards for gun owners for decades,  neither incident might have even happened.

Gun enthusiasts and the NRA have made sure we haven't had one, and are now suffering as a society because of those efforts.
 
2013-01-31 06:44:19 PM  

whidbey: Dimensio: Guns are not like any other item on this planet. They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.

If a firearm owner secures his firearm in a secure locked storage unit, and a thief breaks into the owner's home, then breaks the locked storage unit and obtains the firearm, holding the firearm owner liable for criminal acts committed with use of the firearm is entirely unreasonable.

Seriously, tell that to the judge and jury.


As the unreasonable measure that you advocate is not law, no judge nor jury need be told anything.


It's unreasonable to assume that a gun owner would automatically  be immune from responsibility, even in the case of such unlikely events.

Holding the owner of a dangerous item liable for harm caused in part by negligence of the owner liable is reasonable. Holding the owner of a dangerous item liable for harm caused in spite of reasonable efforts to secure the item is not reasonable. Only an authoritarian fascist would endorse such a measure.
 
2013-01-31 06:44:26 PM  
Mind you that I have the same stance that the NRA has in that they think we should have police officers stationed on campus.

They never said anything about arming teachers.

So a "leftist" "Fark Hypocrite" like me is actually on board with the NRA on this. Why aren't you?
 
2013-01-31 06:44:42 PM  
It appears to an outsider that firearms are somewhat of a sacred cow to many US citizens, and you get a very visceral reaction if you even hint that greater control is needed.

We have these sacred cows in Canada too, but they tend to be relatively harmless. Such as hockey, the French Language and Tim Hortons coffee.

Sacred cows make the best burgers.
 
2013-01-31 06:44:46 PM  
I don't want the TSA in the schools.
 
2013-01-31 06:45:08 PM  

ox45tallboy: With only two victims, I guess we don't have to reset the "mass shooting" clock.


Yup, routine school shooting. Need more guns to get up to "mass shooting" levels.
 
2013-01-31 06:45:23 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: OnlyM3: Princess Ryans Knickers

1478 since Sandy Hook.

Also, did you know that 40% of felons obtained their guns at gun shows where there are often no background checks?
You need to phone in for new talking points. That lie was debunked weeks ago.
// not that the left has ever let little things like facts get in the way of their deranged ramblings.

Debunked how? Care to point to some actual facts? The 40% comes from the FBI which you can easily find on Google.


Lie.

The 40% falsehood is from a single poorly-conducted survey from before background checks were even in place under the Brady Act.  It included transactions between immediate family members, dealers buying from the public and from other dealers, and several other situations that can only be construed as "loopholes" with extraordinary intellectual dishonesty.

The actual figure for the type of transactions you're trying to represent is significantly less than 10%.

But I know you're not concerned with the whole "facts" thing... just emotions.  Like panic and fear.
 
2013-01-31 06:46:02 PM  

TheHumanCannonball: ox45tallboy: Relatively Obscure: Plus it's not very catchy.

There's a 14-year old kid in the hospital with a gunshot wound to the head, and probably a couple of very distraught parents or other family members, and I'm considering making a joke about it because I'm becoming so jaded.

I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?

Not going to touch the gun control part, but there is the social and psychological reasons. Giving these shootings less press coverage and media frenzy would be a great step to prevent kids from getting the idea shooting someone in the way to glory/fame/infamy/etc.


That would also take the heat off the NRA... So no thanks.
 
2013-01-31 06:46:07 PM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: It appears to an outsider that firearms are somewhat of a sacred cow to many US citizens, and you get a very visceral reaction if you even hint that greater control is needed.

We have these sacred cows in Canada too, but they tend to be relatively harmless. Such as hockey, the French Language and Tim Hortons coffee.

Sacred cows make the best burgers.


The most politically vocal firearm rights advocates oppose any new regulation related to firearms.

The most politically vocal gun control advocates oppose any new regulation that does not ban some currently legally available class of firearm.

Neither of those extremes are actually reasonable.
 
2013-01-31 06:47:23 PM  

Farkage: Mike Chewbacca: Farkage: jchic: AdolfOliverPanties: ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?

Not if you're not in favor of gun control.  That shiat needs to be heavily regulated.  Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.

Or at least regulate guns at least as much as you do cars.  Licenses and insurance.

You do realize that car insurance is to fix someone else s car if you cause an accident.  (Or pay their medical bills).  It doesn't even remotely decrease the frequency of accidents, so in this case, it's a f*cking "gun fee" plain and simple.

And? If someone's irresponsibility allowed someone else to be harmed by their firearm, shouldn't the victim be assured their losses will be covered?

Yep.  Sue them, just like what happens now.  Do you own a hammer or club?  Maybe you should get insurance just in case.  After all, I don't know you or what you're capable of...
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/01/03/fbi-hammers-clubs-kill-mor e- people-than-rifles-shotguns/


Better yet, file a claim with their firearm insurer and get your bills covered immediately without having to hire a lawyer. Also, your quote conveniently leaves out handguns.
 
2013-01-31 06:47:31 PM  

Mrtraveler01: DittoToo: What? Since she's black it's only "Sad"?  Only white kids get the "Newsflash"?

I just think this whole thing is sad.

We got some wacko holding a kid hostage in Alabama and now this.

I'm just sick of it all. What the fark has happened to this country?


Whats happened Since when? What point in our history was better?
 
2013-01-31 06:47:51 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Princess Ryans Knickers: Debunked how? Care to point to some actual facts? The 40% comes from the FBI which you can easily find on Google.

Not quite true as represented.  The 40% number is for all transactions.  40% of gun sales are from private.  Not necessarily at gun shows, and not necessarily to felons.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

There's is the study where the factoid comes from.  Page 6.


So you don't deny that 40% had no background checks and that by refusing to close this loophole that you are helping to arm gangsters?
 
2013-01-31 06:48:20 PM  

Dimensio: Day_Old_Dutchie: It appears to an outsider that firearms are somewhat of a sacred cow to many US citizens, and you get a very visceral reaction if you even hint that greater control is needed.

We have these sacred cows in Canada too, but they tend to be relatively harmless. Such as hockey, the French Language and Tim Hortons coffee.

Sacred cows make the best burgers.

The most politically vocal firearm rights advocates oppose any new regulation related to firearms.

The most politically vocal gun control advocates oppose any new regulation that does not ban some currently legally available class of firearm.

Neither of those extremes are actually reasonable.


I know. I've given up.

Guess we're just all going to have to get used to these shootings happening on a routine basis. Because we can't get anything done in this farking country anymore.

/sorry, this whole debate has made me want to go into my angry dome
 
2013-01-31 06:49:01 PM  

Farkage: jchic: AdolfOliverPanties: ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?

Not if you're not in favor of gun control.  That shiat needs to be heavily regulated.  Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.

Or at least regulate guns at least as much as you do cars.  Licenses and insurance.

You do realize that car insurance is to fix someone else s car if you cause an accident.  (Or pay their medical bills).  It doesn't even remotely decrease the frequency of accidents, so in this case, it's a f*cking "gun fee" plain and simple.


Gun fee? Good!
 
2013-01-31 06:49:16 PM  

whidbey: If the item is something as dangerous as a firearm, you had better think of something at least 99% effective,


So you're willing to concede at least 1% fallibility, yet you still want 100% liability?

/Just for the sake of argument let's ignore the fact that the SCOTUS agrees with me and not you.
 
2013-01-31 06:49:17 PM  

Dimensio: It's unreasonable to assume that a gun owner would automatically be immune from responsibility, even in the case of such unlikely events.

Holding the owner of a dangerous item liable for harm caused in part by negligence of the owner liable is reasonable. Holding the owner of a dangerous item liable for harm caused in spite of reasonable efforts to secure the item is not reasonable.</I>


Again your "reasonable efforts"  failed, and someone died because of it.

Only an authoritarian fascist would endorse such a measure.
 Because allowing the legal system to determine if the gun owner is liable or not constitutes endorsing "authoritarian fascism."


Yeah, you're out of arguments again, Dimensio.

Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.
 
2013-01-31 06:49:41 PM  

whidbey: OnlyM3: whidbey

OnlyM3: So tel us oh enlightened one. How would a background check have stopped Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc...?

You mean how would this country have benefited from having a uniform system of standards regarding gun ownership if we had enacted policies decades ago, don't you?
I see you failed to answer the direct question. Care to try again?

I did answer it.

You didn't care for the answser.

If we had had a longtime system of standards for gun owners for decades,  neither incident might have even happened.

Gun enthusiasts and the NRA have made sure we haven't had one, and are now suffering as a society because of those efforts.


Sure.  Okay, so in your mind, that will stop psychos from killing people?  Especially when stuff like this is freely available all over the internet with a 2 second Google search?
http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/june2007/imhv3.pdf

Or this?
http://thehomegunsmith.com/pdf/Expedient-Homemade-Firearms-Vol-II-PA -L uty.pdf

Yeah, better make it tougher for the law abiding people like me to legally buy something.  That should fix it.
 
2013-01-31 06:49:46 PM  

Mrtraveler01

I think it's a pretty farked up idea to even consider arming teachers myself.

That's a liability waiting to happen.

So "Stack o dead kids" > "slim possibility of a liability suit".

Where are your priorities man?

Armed cops are a liability issue as well, but -as much as I despise l.e. and believe it needs an overhaul- a necessity.
 
2013-01-31 06:49:51 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: whidbey: Guns are not like any other item on this planet.

Bull honkey.

whidbey: They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.

How do you make something theft-proof?


Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms.  It wouldn't be theft proof, or insane-wielder proof, but it would prevent the unauthorized use.  Expensive?  Yes.  More valuable than innocent human lives?  We've spent more money on less noble causes...
 
2013-01-31 06:50:08 PM  

HeWhoHasNoName: The 40% falsehood is from a single poorly-conducted survey from before background checks were even in place under the Brady Act. It included transactions between immediate family members, dealers buying from the public and from other dealers, and several other situations that can only be construed as "loopholes" with extraordinary intellectual dishonesty.

The actual figure for the type of transactions you're trying to represent is significantly less than 10%.


Odd since someone else further up the thread from you provided the 40% and he, also, was claiming I was wrong. Funnily he had supporting documentation... and you don't.
 
2013-01-31 06:50:09 PM  
I think the best solution that has been offered is to create safety adaptations at schools (and other public buildings) that can at least come close to matching the fire safety code, but against violence.

There are a lot of good suggestions out there for making public buildings inherently more secure against violence, like we make them inherently more secure against fire.

Do you have a fire-extinguisher in your home? Do you have an attacker-extinguisher?
 
2013-01-31 06:50:51 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: whidbey: If the item is something as dangerous as a firearm, you had better think of something at least 99% effective,

So you're willing to concede at least 1% fallibility, yet you still want 100% liability?

/Just for the sake of argument let's ignore the fact that the SCOTUS agrees with me and not you.


They're not gods, either.  The SCOTUS "agreed" with segregation for decades.   It took sensible progressive efforts to overturn previous decisions.
 
2013-01-31 06:50:57 PM  

highendmighty: Noticeably F.A.T.: whidbey: Guns are not like any other item on this planet.

Bull honkey.

whidbey: They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.

How do you make something theft-proof?

Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms.  It wouldn't be theft proof, or insane-wielder proof, but it would prevent the unauthorized use.  Expensive?  Yes.  More valuable than innocent human lives?  We've spent more money on less noble causes...


They tried to do this in the 1990s, NRA worked hard to prevent it.
 
2013-01-31 06:51:05 PM  

whidbey: Dimensio: It's unreasonable to assume that a gun owner would automatically be immune from responsibility, even in the case of such unlikely events.

Holding the owner of a dangerous item liable for harm caused in part by negligence of the owner liable is reasonable. Holding the owner of a dangerous item liable for harm caused in spite of reasonable efforts to secure the item is not reasonable.</I>

Again your "reasonable efforts"  failed, and someone died because of it.

Only an authoritarian fascist would endorse such a measure.
 Because allowing the legal system to determine if the gun owner is liable or not constitutes endorsing "authoritarian fascism."


Yeah, you're out of arguments again, Dimensio.

Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.


I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.
 
2013-01-31 06:51:34 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: That would also take the heat off the NRA... So no thanks.


Poor baby, better have a glass of warm milk...
 
2013-01-31 06:51:39 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Oh, I don't know, history, maybe? Robyn Anderson bought Harris and Klebold 3 of the 4 guns used in the Columbine massacre. But because she had no knowledge of her plans, she was never charged with a crime. Mark Manes sold the fourth weapon and some ammo to Klebold and "was charged with one count of unlawfully providing or permitting a juvenile to possess a handgun. Manes was also charged with one count of possession of a dangerous or illegal weapon because he had gone shooting with Klebold and Harris in March 1999 and had shot one of their sawed off shotguns. "


Heh.  I just looked up Colorados law and they don't have a law against providing a firearm to a minor...  Score one for messed up.  Didn't know Colorados laws.

Georgia does have one though.  It's a 3 to 5 felony.
 
2013-01-31 06:51:44 PM  

OnlyM3: So "Stack o dead kids" > "slim possibility of a liability suit".

Where are your priorities man?


You can't do the same thing with armed police officers?
 
2013-01-31 06:52:10 PM  
I was driving through Oakland last night and saw a flickering light up ahead and a large crowd of black people. I slowed down because I'm nosy. They were standing next to a fence with a sheet that had photos and artificial flowers pinned to it and were putting candles on the sidewalk next to the fence.

phark you, NRA.  Thanks so much fo all of those unmonitored gun sales you so cherish. That way all the petty burglars in Oakland and the suburbs around it have unfettered access to a plentiful number of guns that turn a simple pissing contest into a deadly shooting match.
 
2013-01-31 06:52:23 PM  

Farkage: whidbey: OnlyM3: whidbey

OnlyM3: So tel us oh enlightened one. How would a background check have stopped Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc...?

You mean how would this country have benefited from having a uniform system of standards regarding gun ownership if we had enacted policies decades ago, don't you?
I see you failed to answer the direct question. Care to try again?

I did answer it.

You didn't care for the answser.

If we had had a longtime system of standards for gun owners for decades,  neither incident might have even happened.

Gun enthusiasts and the NRA have made sure we haven't had one, and are now suffering as a society because of those efforts.

Sure.  Okay, so in your mind, that will stop psychos from killing people?  Especially when stuff like this is freely available all over the internet with a 2 second Google search?
http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/june2007/imhv3.pdf

Or this?
http://thehomegunsmith.com/pdf/Expedient-Homemade-Firearms-Vol-II-PA -L uty.pdf

Yeah, better make it tougher for the law abiding people like me to legally buy something.  That should fix it.


How would background checks stop "law-abiding people" from legally buying firearms?

Be specific.
 
2013-01-31 06:52:26 PM  

highendmighty: Noticeably F.A.T.: whidbey: Guns are not like any other item on this planet.

Bull honkey.

whidbey: They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.

How do you make something theft-proof?

Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms.  It wouldn't be theft proof, or insane-wielder proof, but it would prevent the unauthorized use.  Expensive?  Yes.  More valuable than innocent human lives?  We've spent more money on less noble causes...


How will you convince police agencies to adopt such firearms? Please demonstrate that such triggering systems are effective and that they are infallibly reliable.
 
2013-01-31 06:52:32 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: So you don't deny that 40% had no background checks and that by refusing to close this loophole that you are helping to arm gangsters?


1) Nice goalpost moving

2) How do you close it? I sincerely doubt criminals are just going to say "I'm willing to commit the crimes of buying while being a felon (plus whatever other crime I was going to commit with the gun), but ignoring a background check? I'm not going there. I'm a felon, not the devil."
 
2013-01-31 06:53:06 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: highendmighty: Noticeably F.A.T.: whidbey: Guns are not like any other item on this planet.

Bull honkey.

whidbey: They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.

How do you make something theft-proof?

Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms.  It wouldn't be theft proof, or insane-wielder proof, but it would prevent the unauthorized use.  Expensive?  Yes.  More valuable than innocent human lives?  We've spent more money on less noble causes...

They tried to do this in the 1990s, NRA worked hard to prevent it.


Of course, because it's too expensive for gun manufactures to design/make.

But i bet the NRA used some phony baloney excuse on how it would infringe on our 2nd Amendment rights or some other stupid BS.
 
2013-01-31 06:53:39 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: highendmighty: Noticeably F.A.T.: whidbey: Guns are not like any other item on this planet.

Bull honkey.

whidbey: They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.

How do you make something theft-proof?

Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms.  It wouldn't be theft proof, or insane-wielder proof, but it would prevent the unauthorized use.  Expensive?  Yes.  More valuable than innocent human lives?  We've spent more money on less noble causes...

They tried to do this in the 1990s, NRA worked hard to prevent it.


What "biometric trigger locks" existed in the 1990s?
 
2013-01-31 06:53:44 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Farkage: Mike Chewbacca: Farkage: jchic: AdolfOliverPanties: ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?

Not if you're not in favor of gun control.  That shiat needs to be heavily regulated.  Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.

Or at least regulate guns at least as much as you do cars.  Licenses and insurance.

You do realize that car insurance is to fix someone else s car if you cause an accident.  (Or pay their medical bills).  It doesn't even remotely decrease the frequency of accidents, so in this case, it's a f*cking "gun fee" plain and simple.

And? If someone's irresponsibility allowed someone else to be harmed by their firearm, shouldn't the victim be assured their losses will be covered?

Yep.  Sue them, just like what happens now.  Do you own a hammer or club?  Maybe you should get insurance just in case.  After all, I don't know you or what you're capable of...
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/01/03/fbi-hammers-clubs-kill-mor e- people-than-rifles-shotguns/

Better yet, file a claim with their firearm insurer and get your bills covered immediately without having to hire a lawyer. Also, your quote conveniently leaves out handguns.


My point stands since one of the jumping up and down screaming points is we have to ban "assault weapons", which are rifles by the way.  That's all they are.
 
2013-01-31 06:54:11 PM  

jchic: Never said it would. But then again how many automobile fatalities have been prevented by having operators restricted/licensed? You can't say that X or Y would have prevented Z but you can decide that an item whose sole purpose is to destroy should be at least as regulated as many other items in our daily lives.


We do know that guns being regulated as they are now are involved in around 8800 homicides, 18000 suicides, while cars which are very regulated are involved in around 32,000+ deaths.  Hmmm,..

Suicides are at around the same rate in this country as countries like Japan, South Korea, Australia, despite those countries have very strict gun control.

Does this mean the cars/guns comparison is allowed?
 
2013-01-31 06:54:46 PM  

ox45tallboy: robsul82: Yep, as with serial killers, you need three victims to count.

I see the grieving parents of a first or second victim thinking to themselves, "Thank God he's only dead because someone didn't like him, and not because he was a random victim of a mentally unbalanced individual!"

Although to be honest, they might be relieved that they wouldn't have to deal with all the media sensationalism and posturing by political activists shouting all the wrong details about the tragedy for the next decade or six.


your igorance is part of the problem. you watch way too much Law & Order. every 3 episodes is a mentally ill person run amuck, death & destruction. well check the statistics sunshine. because in realityville it's not that way. please don't feed the stupid monster. people living with mental illness have it hard enough without false blame for the majority of horrendous crime in America.
 
2013-01-31 06:55:02 PM  

Dimensio: Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.

I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.


You are insisting that gun owners not be held accountable for their property and you are loathe to allow the legal system be the arbiter in such cases.  You clearly  want special rights.
 
2013-01-31 06:55:54 PM  
DYK:

17 states of 50 regulate private firearm sales at gun shows
Only 7 require background checks on all gun sales.

No background check, no guns. Simple, effective protection of YOUR family and keeping weapons out of the hands of felons.
 
2013-01-31 06:56:02 PM  

pedrop357: jchic: Never said it would. But then again how many automobile fatalities have been prevented by having operators restricted/licensed? You can't say that X or Y would have prevented Z but you can decide that an item whose sole purpose is to destroy should be at least as regulated as many other items in our daily lives.

We do know that guns being regulated as they are now are involved in around 8800 homicides, 18000 suicides, while cars which are very regulated are involved in around 32,000+ deaths.  Hmmm,..

Suicides are at around the same rate in this country as countries like Japan, South Korea, Australia, despite those countries have very strict gun control.

Does this mean the cars/guns comparison is allowed?


You are mistaken. Suicide rates of Japan, South Korea and Australia are higher than suicide rates in the United States of America.
 
2013-01-31 06:56:46 PM  
This is good news for the gun grabbers.
 
2013-01-31 06:56:54 PM  
Mrtraveler01 [TotalFark] Smartest Funniest
2013-01-31 06:40:59 PM

OnlyM3: Lets say we go your way and have 1 cop on every campus. Hell make it two. How hard would it be for some loon to distract those 2 (or just wait till they're wandering in some other location) and have open season?

So you don't support having police officers stationed on campus?

I'm leery of police officers on campus for numerous reasons. If however they are limited in what they're allowed to do ( i.e. not allowed to talk to or interact w/ students ) I could hold my nose and support it.
 
2013-01-31 06:57:01 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: So you don't deny that 40% had no background checks and that by refusing to close this loophole that you are helping to arm gangsters?


Stretch Armstrong is having a rough day.

All I said, and all you derive from that is that when that report was published, 60% of all gun transactions were conducted with a background check, which by extension means that 40% were not.  Ergo, that information does not support the claim that 40% of felons get their guns from gun shows, where background check are not performed.
 
2013-01-31 06:57:03 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: highendmighty: Noticeably F.A.T.: whidbey: Guns are not like any other item on this planet.

Bull honkey.

whidbey: They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.

How do you make something theft-proof?

Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms.  It wouldn't be theft proof, or insane-wielder proof, but it would prevent the unauthorized use.  Expensive?  Yes.  More valuable than innocent human lives?  We've spent more money on less noble causes...

They tried to do this in the 1990s, NRA worked hard to prevent it.


If Police departments refuse to use it because it isn't 100% reliable, I don't want it either.  And by the way, that is the reason Police departments don't want it.  Cops get show with their own guns too.
 
2013-01-31 06:57:07 PM  

NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT GUN CONTROL!

 
2013-01-31 06:57:56 PM  

whidbey: Dimensio: Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.

I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.

You are insisting that gun owners not be held accountable for their property


I have made no such insistence. I have stated only that such liability must be mitigated when reasonable security measures are implemented. I cannot be held liable for injuries caused by a thief who steals my automobile and causes injury with it if I have taken reasonable measures to prevent theft of my automobile; I am requesting a standard no different for firearms. Your claim is therefore a lie.

Is your position so devoid of merit that you are incapable of justifying it without lying?
 
2013-01-31 06:58:01 PM  

highendmighty: Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms.


When they come up with one as reliable as the rest of my gun, I'll consider it. Until then I'm not going to decrease the reliability of something I may need to protect my life. You also will need to have them at a reasonable cost, SCOTUS has repeatedly ruled that laws that unreasonably increase the cost of gun ownership are de facto bans as they keep poor people from being able to afford them.
 
2013-01-31 06:58:06 PM  

Dimensio: highendmighty: Noticeably F.A.T.: whidbey: Guns are not like any other item on this planet.

Bull honkey.

whidbey: They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.

How do you make something theft-proof?

Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms.  It wouldn't be theft proof, or insane-wielder proof, but it would prevent the unauthorized use.  Expensive?  Yes.  More valuable than innocent human lives?  We've spent more money on less noble causes...

How will you convince police agencies to adopt such firearms? Please demonstrate that such triggering systems are effective and that they are infallibly reliable.



There is technology for it.  And your argument is guns are otherwise infallible devices?  Never been a misfire?  Never been a bullet caught in the barrel?  Never had a safety jam?
 
2013-01-31 06:58:11 PM  

jchic: AdolfOliverPanties: ox45tallboy: I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?

Not if you're not in favor of gun control.  That shiat needs to be heavily regulated.  Background checks and attention toward mental health are a necessity.

It won't stop these things from happening, but it could dramatically lower their frequency.

Or at least regulate guns at least as much as you do cars.  Licenses and insurance.


Because licenses and insurance have done so much to stop the unlicensed and uninsured drivers out there that there isn't a specific line on all auto insurance forms for 'uninsured driver.'
 
2013-01-31 06:58:15 PM  

OnlyM3: Princess Ryans Knickers

1478 since Sandy Hook.

Also, did you know that 40% of felons obtained their guns at gun shows where there are often no background checks?
You need to phone in for new talking points. That lie was debunked weeks ago.
// not that the left has ever let little things like facts get in the way of their deranged ramblings.


They also include suicides, while ignoring countries with similar suicide rates and much stricter gun control.
 
2013-01-31 06:58:19 PM  
Wow, this thread was supposed to be shut down 93 comments ago.  Scandalous.
 
2013-01-31 06:58:50 PM  

whidbey: Dimensio: Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.

I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.

You are insisting that gun owners not be held accountable for their property and you are loathe to allow the legal system be the arbiter in such cases.  You clearly  want special rights.


No, more like you want to do blanket punishments on people who never did anything wrong. But you're an authoritarian douche asshat, and we already know that.
 
2013-01-31 06:59:11 PM  

atomicmask: I really do not think this is a gun issue, and I am starting to even wonder if its a mental health issue..

I think the counter to this is nothing more then more death. A good plague has not swept threw our culture in a long ass time, so at the moment, we are packed like rats on top of one another going ape shiat and fighting for a tiny little spot of peace in a world full of everyone trying to decide everyone elses business. Maybe if that happened, we could all get breathing room and not go nuthouse on the ones of us left alive.


Maybe this is the new plague?
 
2013-01-31 06:59:26 PM  

ox45tallboy: Relatively Obscure: Plus it's not very catchy.

There's a 14-year old kid in the hospital with a gunshot wound to the head, and probably a couple of very distraught parents or other family members, and I'm considering making a joke about it because I'm becoming so jaded.

I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools

and

3.) At least lowers the frequency and number of victims of gun violence.

I know there is no magic solution which will eliminate it, but how can we at least reduce it enough so that I'm not tempted to make jokes about a 14-year-old kid fighting for his life after being shot in the head while at school, exactly where he's supposed to be?


we could close all the schools.
 
2013-01-31 06:59:52 PM  

whidbey: Wow, this thread was supposed to be shut down 93 comments ago.  Scandalous.


STFU or get out.
 
2013-01-31 06:59:54 PM  

highendmighty: Dimensio: highendmighty: Noticeably F.A.T.: whidbey: Guns are not like any other item on this planet.

Bull honkey.

whidbey: They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.

How do you make something theft-proof?

Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms.  It wouldn't be theft proof, or insane-wielder proof, but it would prevent the unauthorized use.  Expensive?  Yes.  More valuable than innocent human lives?  We've spent more money on less noble causes...

How will you convince police agencies to adopt such firearms? Please demonstrate that such triggering systems are effective and that they are infallibly reliable.


There is technology for it.


Then you should be able to provide reference to it. Please do so.

Additionally, how will police be convinced to adopt such technology?


  And your argument is guns are otherwise infallible devices?  Never been a misfire?  Never been a bullet caught in the barrel?  Never had a safety jam?

Previous malfunctions of my carry firearm were corrected through proper cleaning. The firearm has functioned reliably since.
 
2013-01-31 07:00:00 PM  

ox45tallboy: With only two victims, I guess we don't have to reset the "mass shooting" clock.


Nah.  He couldn't aim worth a flip.
 
2013-01-31 07:00:07 PM  

whidbey: Farkage: whidbey: OnlyM3: whidbey

OnlyM3: So tel us oh enlightened one. How would a background check have stopped Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc...?

You mean how would this country have benefited from having a uniform system of standards regarding gun ownership if we had enacted policies decades ago, don't you?
I see you failed to answer the direct question. Care to try again?

I did answer it.

You didn't care for the answser.

If we had had a longtime system of standards for gun owners for decades,  neither incident might have even happened.

Gun enthusiasts and the NRA have made sure we haven't had one, and are now suffering as a society because of those efforts.

Sure.  Okay, so in your mind, that will stop psychos from killing people?  Especially when stuff like this is freely available all over the internet with a 2 second Google search?
http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/june2007/imhv3.pdf

Or this?
http://thehomegunsmith.com/pdf/Expedient-Homemade-Firearms-Vol-II-PA -L uty.pdf

Yeah, better make it tougher for the law abiding people like me to legally buy something.  That should fix it.

How would background checks stop "law-abiding people" from legally buying firearms?

Be specific.


I have nothing against background checks and I've never said otherwise.  I was referring to some of the other retarded proposals.
 
2013-01-31 07:00:38 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: highendmighty: Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms.

When they come up with one as reliable as the rest of my gun, I'll consider it. Until then I'm not going to decrease the reliability of something I may need to protect my life. You also will need to have them at a reasonable cost, SCOTUS has repeatedly ruled that laws that unreasonably increase the cost of gun ownership are de facto bans as they keep poor people from being able to afford them.


I hear your SCOTUS argument - and I am not an anti-gun guy.  I love guns.  The government has subsidised so much crap over the decades, I think this, at least, would be worth some subsidy money.
 
2013-01-31 07:01:08 PM  

muck4doo: whidbey: Dimensio: Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.

I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.

You are insisting that gun owners not be held accountable for their property and you are loathe to allow the legal system be the arbiter in such cases.  You clearly  want special rights.

No, more like you want to do blanket punishments on people who never did anything wrong. But you're an authoritarian douche asshat, and we already know that.


He is also violent. He advocated beating a restaurant owner to death solely because the restaurant owner engaged in an unpopular (but legal) business practice.
 
2013-01-31 07:01:43 PM  

Click Click D'oh: gun shows, where background check are not performed.


Depends on the show. I'm unsure about other states, but in CO it's illegal for anyone (including private buyers/sellers) to transfer any gun without a check at a gun show, or on the property (to prevent private deals on the floor then making the sale in the parking lot).
 
2013-01-31 07:01:47 PM  

ox45tallboy: Relatively Obscure: Plus it's not very catchy.

There's a 14-year old kid in the hospital with a gunshot wound to the head, and probably a couple of very distraught parents or other family members, and I'm considering making a joke about it because I'm becoming so jaded.

I'm not in favor of gun control, but this is just getting ridiculous. Is there any solution out there which:

1.) Doesn't force everyone to hand in all of their guns
2.) Doesn't put kids further at risk by putting more guns in schools


Most likely. The biggest problem is discussing it. When both sides can maturely discuss the issue without going into complete hyperbolic bullshiat, than it might be possible. Sadly, we're not there yet.
 
2013-01-31 07:02:01 PM  

iheartscotch: It isn't a gun control issue; it's a PEOPLE control issue. Until you can ensure that everyone aren't going to become murderous sociopaths; you're just ignoring the actual issue


The same day as the Sandy Hook shooting a kid in a school in China went on a knife rampage and injured like 22 kids. INJURED them. Of course that's terrible, but luckily he didn't have a gun with which to completely destroy them as happened in Sandy Hook.

It's a people issue and a gun control issue.
 
2013-01-31 07:02:05 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Princess


17 states out of 50 regulate private gun sales. Guess where most of those occurred?
 
2013-01-31 07:02:09 PM  

whidbey: Dimensio: Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.

I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.

You are insisting that gun owners not be held accountable for their property and you are loathe to allow the legal system be the arbiter in such cases.  You clearly  want special rights.


So if a criminal breaks into your locked garage, steals your car and kills someone with it, you go to jail because f*ck you.  That's what you're saying?
 
2013-01-31 07:02:37 PM  

img.photobucket.com 
It's ok libs, I'll keep your daughters safe.



Also, told ya so.
 
2013-01-31 07:02:41 PM  

OnlyM3: Mrtraveler01

OnlyM3: **bonus points for this one as FARK Hypocrites (aka leftists) bashed the NRA when they called for it, yet ~4 days later when obmessiah called for it they fell to their knees in worship.**

I'm what you call a "leftist" (in reality I'm probably more of a centrist in a global perspective, but alas), I have no problem having armed police officers in schools.

Makes more sense than having teachers packing heat in the classroom.
Really? Why? Who are the first adults these evil sob's encounter? Why not allow the first person (adult) on scene a chance to save lives? Please remember in your reply, that "training" was part of the proposition.

Lets say we go your way and have 1 cop on every campus. Hell make it two. How hard would it be for some loon to distract those 2 (or just wait till they're wandering in some other location) and have open season?


If guns save lives, how many have you saved or personally witnessed as saved? I have medical training - First Aid, CPR, AED, First Responder, Lifeguard Trainer, and Emergency Tracheotomy. I've used it twice, both times in a situation where someone was in peril (anaphylactic shock and a distressed child struggling to stay above water, in that order). I don't own a gun, and I'm a liberal.

If you've fired a gun at a human being with the sole purpose of saving the lives of people around you less than 2 times, then I'm winning that race. There are better means to save a life than carrying a projectile launcher.
 
2013-01-31 07:02:45 PM  
whidbey

OnlyM3: whidbey

OnlyM3: So tel us oh enlightened one. How would a background check have stopped Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc...?

You mean how would this country have benefited from having a uniform system of standards regarding gun ownership if we had enacted policies decades ago, don't you?
I see you failed to answer the direct question. Care to try again?

I did answer it.

You didn't care for the answser.

If we had had a longtime system of standards for gun owners for decades, neither incident might have even happened.

No, that's a lie, those firearms were sold via background checks and later taken by thieves. You're proving how uninformed and silly your side is. You throw out a "solution" that won't have any real affect. Lie about prior incidents and hope nobody calls you on it.

Well. You've been called on it.
 
2013-01-31 07:02:50 PM  

highendmighty: Noticeably F.A.T.: whidbey: Guns are not like any other item on this planet.

Bull honkey.

whidbey: They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.

How do you make something theft-proof?

Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms.  It wouldn't be theft proof, or insane-wielder proof, but it would prevent the unauthorized use.  Expensive?  Yes.  More valuable than innocent human lives?  We've spent more money on less noble causes...


Anyone know how to root a Glock 17?
 
2013-01-31 07:03:16 PM  

pedrop357: OnlyM3: Princess Ryans Knickers

1478 since Sandy Hook.

Also, did you know that 40% of felons obtained their guns at gun shows where there are often no background checks?
You need to phone in for new talking points. That lie was debunked weeks ago.
// not that the left has ever let little things like facts get in the way of their deranged ramblings.

They also include suicides, while ignoring countries with similar suicide rates and much stricter gun control.


Gun violence is gun violence. Jesus would not approve.
 
2013-01-31 07:03:21 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: No background check, no guns. Simple, effective protection of YOUR family and keeping weapons out of the hands of felons.


How do you suggest it be implemented?  The NICS system came to a crashing halt recently with requests from FFL dealers.  How would it handle the uptick in private sales?  How would private sales even be able access it since a FFL number is needed to access the system?
 
2013-01-31 07:03:23 PM  

highendmighty: There is technology for it. And your argument is guns are otherwise infallible devices? Never been a misfire? Never been a bullet caught in the barrel? Never had a safety jam?


That guns are not infallible in no way justifies deliberately adding things that can significantly reduce its reliability rate.
 
2013-01-31 07:03:23 PM  

Dimensio: muck4doo: whidbey: Dimensio: Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.

I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.

You are insisting that gun owners not be held accountable for their property and you are loathe to allow the legal system be the arbiter in such cases.  You clearly  want special rights.

No, more like you want to do blanket punishments on people who never did anything wrong. But you're an authoritarian douche asshat, and we already know that.

He is also violent. He advocated beating a restaurant owner to death solely because the restaurant owner engaged in an unpopular (but legal) business practice.


He is my IHOP buddy, so I know he better not be messing with IHOP.
 
2013-01-31 07:03:40 PM  

Dimensio: You are mistaken. Suicide rates of Japan, South Korea and Australia are higher than suicide rates in the United States of America.


Probably misquoted statistic. I think I've seen the numbers that suicide by gun is higher in America than pretty much all other countries. That's also where they get the huge number of "gun related deaths" in a lot of quotes.

Studies have shown that if guns are taken away from a group, it lowers suicides by gun in that group.
http://gsoa.feinheit.ch/media/medialibrary/2010/12/Lubin_10.pdf

I'm going to avoid any overgeneralization of that for how that could apply to the whole of USA.
 
2013-01-31 07:03:41 PM  

whidbey: Wow, this thread was supposed to be shut down 93 comments ago.  Scandalous.


Ahhhh....But this is a legitimate thread, and therefore expected.
 
2013-01-31 07:04:04 PM  

pedrop357: OnlyM3: Princess Ryans Knickers

1478 since Sandy Hook.

Also, did you know that 40% of felons obtained their guns at gun shows where there are often no background checks?
You need to phone in for new talking points. That lie was debunked weeks ago.
// not that the left has ever let little things like facts get in the way of their deranged ramblings.

They also include suicides, while ignoring countries with similar suicide rates and much stricter gun control.


Also, the numbers are ONLY for the US. Unlike some of the drunk driving claims posted here.
 
2013-01-31 07:05:36 PM  
whidbey
How would background checks stop "law-abiding people" from legally buying firearms?

Be specific.
What you're trying now is called moving the goal post. You made a claim. You were called on it. You have shown you are incapable of supporting your claim, even when given multiple chances. So now you try to change the argument and throw the burden onto your opponent. Debates don't work that way.
 
2013-01-31 07:06:42 PM  

muck4doo: whidbey: Dimensio: Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.

I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.

You are insisting that gun owners not be held accountable for their property and you are loathe to allow the legal system be the arbiter in such cases.  You clearly  want special rights.

No, more like you want to do blanket punishments on people who never did anything wrong. But you're an authoritarian douche asshat, and we already know that.


I don't think you should be charged if your gun was stolen by a criminal, but if you knowingly gave a weapon to a criminal of your free will, then you deserved to be charged for something IMHO.
 
2013-01-31 07:06:57 PM  
Whidbey, where did the gun weilding IHOP touch you?

/Hope it wasn't anywhere special
 
2013-01-31 07:06:58 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: 17 states out of 50 regulate private gun sales. Guess where most of those occurred?


You aren't even forming full coherent sentences anymore.
 
2013-01-31 07:07:17 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: [img.photobucket.com image 800x600] 
It's ok libs, I'll keep your daughters safe.

Also, told ya so.


Are those Diamond "Strike Anywhere" matches by the ammo?  That's not very safe . . .
 
2013-01-31 07:07:33 PM  
highendmighty
Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms. It wouldn't be theft proof, or insane-wielder proof, but it would prevent the unauthorized use. Expensive? Yes. More valuable than innocent human lives? We've spent more money on less noble causes...
even those clowns on mythbusters were able to circumvent biometric locks. Care to try for a real world, non-sci-fi answer?
 
2013-01-31 07:07:43 PM  

Mrtraveler01: muck4doo: whidbey: Dimensio: Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.

I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.

You are insisting that gun owners not be held accountable for their property and you are loathe to allow the legal system be the arbiter in such cases.  You clearly  want special rights.

No, more like you want to do blanket punishments on people who never did anything wrong. But you're an authoritarian douche asshat, and we already know that.

I don't think you should be charged if your gun was stolen by a criminal, but if you knowingly gave a weapon to a criminal of your free will, then you deserved to be charged for something IMHO.


Mind you, I'm not well versed in gun laws to see how a law like this can be designed without negatively impacting people whose guns are stolen but it's worth a shot.
 
2013-01-31 07:08:01 PM  

Dimensio: No, more like you want to do blanket punishments on people who never did anything wrong. But you're an authoritarian douche asshat, and we already know that.

He is also violent. He advocated beating a restaurant owner to death solely because the restaurant owner engaged in an unpopular (but legal) business practice.


I'm starting to wonder if you either have no sense of humor or you are suffering from some sort of personality disorder that would take such a colloquial expression that much to heart.

Either way, you're agreeing with a known troll who has a history of disrupting threads.
 
2013-01-31 07:08:10 PM  
So is the guarantee to a green just submit a story about a shooting, or does it have to be a school shooting.  Let me know.

...crap's getting old....
 
2013-01-31 07:08:25 PM  

highendmighty: And your argument is guns are otherwise infallible devices?


Mine isn't. My argument is that the current crop of (affordable) biometric devices are more fallible than my guns, which are pretty farking reliable. If you can give me a device that 1) doesn't reduce my gun's current reliability and 2) is at a reasonable cost and 3) isn't easily defeated*, I'll take it. Until then, it's not happening.

*I'm less worried about someone taking my gun off my person than I am them taking it from my safe. If all it takes is two minutes with a screwdriver to bypass it, you really haven't done much to improve the situation, it'll still be a target for theft.
 
2013-01-31 07:08:27 PM  
The Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that 80 percent of state inmates purchased guns from family, friends, a street buy or an illegal source. Those guns don't grow on trees. ATF trafficking investigations show that many of them come from trafficking from gun shows.
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/backgroundchecks/gunshowloo ph ole#Harlow

Gun shows are a major trafficking channel according to ATF, with an average of 130 guns trafficked per investigation, and over 25,000 firearms trafficked in total over one 17-month period alone http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/backgroundchecks/gunshowloop h ole#ATF

Bush Attorney General Gonzales:  "...gun shows are a marketplace for felons and other prohibited persons to buy firearms from unlicensed sellers without background checks "
 
2013-01-31 07:08:51 PM  
What? No NEWS tag?
Damn FARK libs, you're slippin'.
 
2013-01-31 07:09:05 PM  

boomm: Dimensio: You are mistaken. Suicide rates of Japan, South Korea and Australia are higher than suicide rates in the United States of America.

Probably misquoted statistic. I think I've seen the numbers that suicide by gun is higher in America than pretty much all other countries. That's also where they get the huge number of "gun related deaths" in a lot of quotes.

Studies have shown that if guns are taken away from a group, it lowers suicides by gun in that group.
http://gsoa.feinheit.ch/media/medialibrary/2010/12/Lubin_10.pdf

I'm going to avoid any overgeneralization of that for how that could apply to the whole of USA.


Wow.  You completely missed the point.

Suicides by gun go down when people are deprived of guns?  What a farking shock!

Now the big question is, did they simply find another way to kill themselves?  If they did, then they simply substituted methods and no progress has been made in SAVING LIVES.  Gun control is not supposed to be an end unto itself.

If you only care about suicides where a gun was used and don't care if they switch to something else, then you are part of the problem
 
2013-01-31 07:10:25 PM  

Mrtraveler01: muck4doo: whidbey: Dimensio: Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.

I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.

You are insisting that gun owners not be held accountable for their property and you are loathe to allow the legal system be the arbiter in such cases.  You clearly  want special rights.

No, more like you want to do blanket punishments on people who never did anything wrong. But you're an authoritarian douche asshat, and we already know that.

I don't think you should be charged if your gun was stolen by a criminal, but if you knowingly gave a weapon to a criminal of your free will, then you deserved to be charged for something IMHO.


Serial numbers can be taken out.
 
2013-01-31 07:10:34 PM  
The cat's out of the bag in the US when it comes to guns. There's a shiatload of them and they're not going away. No amount of background checks, registration or anything else is going to stop some psycho from shooting up a place if he really needs to.

It is pretty retarded though that we have all these background check laws and anyone can walk into a gun show and buy anything they want with no ID check whatsoever. I'm not saying the background checks help but if you're going to have them, don't leave such an obvious loophole.

Buy all the guns you want just shut up about the second amendment and how people have guns to protect themselves from the government. If Hilary Clinton wants in, she's coming in and no amount of assault rifles you bought at the Brandon Gun Expo is going to stop that. Enjoy your toys but don't act like you're some last line of defense against the oppressive State.
 
2013-01-31 07:10:55 PM  

OnlyM3: whidbey
How would background checks stop "law-abiding people" from legally buying firearms?

Be specific. What you're trying now is called moving the goal post. You made a claim. You were called on it. You have shown you are incapable of supporting your claim, even when given multiple chances. So now you try to change the argument and throw the burden onto your opponent. Debates don't work that way.


I've actually been quite consistent in my arguments here.

You clearly don't want this country to have any kind of uniform standards in place regarding firearms.   My point was that if we had, neither Columbine nor Sandy Hook might have occurred.

This is not "moving goalposts, this is you attempting to avoid the point altogether.
 
2013-01-31 07:10:58 PM  

OnlyM3: whidbey

OnlyM3: whidbey

OnlyM3: So tel us oh enlightened one. How would a background check have stopped Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc...?

You mean how would this country have benefited from having a uniform system of standards regarding gun ownership if we had enacted policies decades ago, don't you?
I see you failed to answer the direct question. Care to try again?

I did answer it.

You didn't care for the answser.

If we had had a longtime system of standards for gun owners for decades, neither incident might have even happened.
No, that's a lie, those firearms were sold via background checks and later taken by thieves. You're proving how uninformed and silly your side is. You throw out a "solution" that won't have any real affect. Lie about prior incidents and hope nobody calls you on it.

Well. You've been called on it.


It's a hypothetical situation. By definition, it can't be a lie because it's based on something that didn't happen in the first place. This is what I mean by saying that we're not mature enough to discuss this situation. We still care more about "scoring points" than doing anything about children getting shot.
 
2013-01-31 07:10:59 PM  

Dimensio: highendmighty: Dimensio: highendmighty: Noticeably F.A.T.: whidbey: Guns are not like any other item on this planet.

Bull honkey.

whidbey: They should be held to the highest standard of responsibility.

How do you make something theft-proof?

Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms.  It wouldn't be theft proof, or insane-wielder proof, but it would prevent the unauthorized use.  Expensive?  Yes.  More valuable than innocent human lives?  We've spent more money on less noble causes...

How will you convince police agencies to adopt such firearms? Please demonstrate that such triggering systems are effective and that they are infallibly reliable.


There is technology for it.

Then you should be able to provide reference to it. Please do so.

Additionally, how will police be convinced to adopt such technology?


  And your argument is guns are otherwise infallible devices?  Never been a misfire?  Never been a bullet caught in the barrel?  Never had a safety jam?

Previous malfunctions of my carry firearm were corrected through proper cleaning. The firearm has functioned reliably since.


Nothing mechanical is 100% reliable, not even your sparkling clean guns. (and i'm glad it didn't fail for you at a time when you might need it most). I will defer to your argument that the smart gun idea is not 100% there yet, but again, it's on the cusp and a little bit of time and money invested in such a prospect would save countless lives - not necessarily immediately, but in the very near future.  I'm thinking of a long-term, reasonable solution to a large part of a problem in a time when off-the-cuff ass-pulling-out-of seems to be the flavor of the day. (and i apologize for the mixing of metaphors).
 
2013-01-31 07:11:20 PM  
Just wait until the tinfoil brigade finds out all the most recent shooters were home-schooled.
[horseteeteethed_chick.jpeg]
 
2013-01-31 07:11:22 PM  

TommyDeuce: Are those Diamond "Strike Anywhere" matches by the ammo? That's not very safe . . .


Why?
 
2013-01-31 07:11:33 PM  

Mugato: . No amount of background checks, registration or anything else is going to stop some psycho from shooting up a place if he really needs to.


Why bother?

Why bother with airbags, food safety, vaccines, safety checks on airplanes, car safety, etc... someone is going to die anyway.
 
2013-01-31 07:12:17 PM  

Farkage: whidbey: Dimensio: Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.

I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.

You are insisting that gun owners not be held accountable for their property and you are loathe to allow the legal system be the arbiter in such cases.  You clearly  want special rights.

So if a criminal breaks into your locked garage, steals your car and kills someone with it, you go to jail because f*ck you.  That's what you're saying?


No,  you are saying that a gun should be equated with an automobile.  Which has nothing to do with my point.
 
2013-01-31 07:12:40 PM  
This sort of gun violence is inevitable when one has a large, heavily armed populace.  Can we all agree on one thing, though....that even more guns, more people armed at schools, cops, soldiers, etc. will solve all of these problems?  It's simple math, people.  Arm everyone and this will somehow sort itself out.
 
2013-01-31 07:12:47 PM  

Mugato: It is pretty retarded though that we have all these background check laws and anyone can walk into a gun show and buy anything they want with no ID check whatsoever. I'm not saying the background checks help but if you're going to have them, don't leave such an obvious loophole.


Citation needed.

Dealer sales, which are the overwhelming majority of gun sales at gun shows, ALWAYS require a background check.  If you want to ban all private sales, have the guts to come right out and call for it.  Don't hide behind "gun shows".

Gun shows do not have any special laws that exempt sales there vs other places.
 
2013-01-31 07:12:56 PM  

muck4doo: Mrtraveler01: muck4doo: whidbey: Dimensio: Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.

I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.

You are insisting that gun owners not be held accountable for their property and you are loathe to allow the legal system be the arbiter in such cases.  You clearly  want special rights.

No, more like you want to do blanket punishments on people who never did anything wrong. But you're an authoritarian douche asshat, and we already know that.

I don't think you should be charged if your gun was stolen by a criminal, but if you knowingly gave a weapon to a criminal of your free will, then you deserved to be charged for something IMHO.

Serial numbers can be taken out.


And giant meteors can fall on your house tomorrow. Just because something can happen doesn't mean it always does.
 
2013-01-31 07:13:09 PM  

Mugato: The cat's out of the bag in the US when it comes to guns. There's a shiatload of them and they're not going away. No amount of background checks, registration or anything else is going to stop some psycho from shooting up a place if he really needs to.

It is pretty retarded though that we have all these background check laws and anyone can walk into a gun show and buy anything they want with no ID check whatsoever. I'm not saying the background checks help but if you're going to have them, don't leave such an obvious loophole.

Buy all the guns you want just shut up about the second amendment and how people have guns to protect themselves from the government. If Hilary Clinton wants in, she's coming in and no amount of assault rifles you bought at the Brandon Gun Expo is going to stop that. Enjoy your toys but don't act like you're some last line of defense against the oppressive State.


Why bother with a gun, people are just going to shoot you anyway.
 
2013-01-31 07:13:55 PM  

whidbey: OnlyM3: whidbey
How would background checks stop "law-abiding people" from legally buying firearms?

Be specific. What you're trying now is called moving the goal post. You made a claim. You were called on it. You have shown you are incapable of supporting your claim, even when given multiple chances. So now you try to change the argument and throw the burden onto your opponent. Debates don't work that way.

I've actually been quite consistent in my arguments here.

You clearly don't want this country to have any kind of uniform standards in place regarding firearms.   My point was that if we had, neither Columbine nor Sandy Hook might have occurred.

This is not "moving goalposts, this is you attempting to avoid the point altogether.


No, this is you being your usual stupid self, comrade.
 
2013-01-31 07:13:58 PM  
We should make a law where it's illegal to have a gun at school.  That'll fix it.
 
2013-01-31 07:14:19 PM  

OnlyM3: whidbey

OnlyM3: whidbey

OnlyM3: So tel us oh enlightened one. How would a background check have stopped Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc...?

You mean how would this country have benefited from having a uniform system of standards regarding gun ownership if we had enacted policies decades ago, don't you?
I see you failed to answer the direct question. Care to try again?

I did answer it.

You didn't care for the answser.

If we had had a longtime system of standards for gun owners for decades, neither incident might have even happened.
No, that's a lie, those firearms were sold via background checks and later taken by thieves. You're proving how uninformed and silly your side is. You throw out a "solution" that won't have any real affect. Lie about prior incidents and hope nobody calls you on it.

Well. You've been called on it.


Not really. You still have this irrational fear of having a nationwide system in place to determine how firearms are obtained by the public.

I submit that the NRA and the other gun lobbies have wanted to keep the industry and the sale of firearms as unregulated as possible, and that has proven to be a great deal of the problem.
 
2013-01-31 07:14:34 PM  
NO kills?

Son, I am dissapoint.
 
2013-01-31 07:15:01 PM  

pedrop357: Now the big question is, did they simply find another way to kill themselves?


Read the link, maybe? The researchers believe that there was not a noticeable increase in suicide by other method.

But, there are other problems you could point out. You can proceed with calm.

For example, the access to the weapon was temporary (just the weekend leave), and it doesn't represent the prevention or failures beyond the weekend leave situation.
 
2013-01-31 07:15:11 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: The Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that 80 percent of state inmates purchased guns from family, friends, a street buy or an illegal source. Those guns don't grow on trees. ATF trafficking investigations show that many of them come from trafficking from gun shows.
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/backgroundchecks/gunshowloo ph ole#Harlow

Gun shows are a major trafficking channel according to ATF, with an average of 130 guns trafficked per investigation, and over 25,000 firearms trafficked in total over one 17-month period alone http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/backgroundchecks/gunshowloop h ole#ATF

Bush Attorney General Gonzales:  "...gun shows are a marketplace for felons and other prohibited persons to buy firearms from unlicensed sellers without background checks "


Holy crap, you're citing the f'ing Brady campaign?  The same group that got busted talking about how many "Children" are killed each year by guns until they got called out for classifying anyone under the age of 26 as a 'child' and including people the Police shot during the commission of a crime?  Really?
 
2013-01-31 07:16:10 PM  

whidbey: I submit that the NRA and the other gun lobbies have wanted to keep the industry and the sale of firearms as unregulated as possible, and that has proven to be a great deal of the problem.


I submit that the ACLU and the other speech lobbies have wanted to keep the industry and the sale of books and magazines as unregulated as possible, and that has proven to be a great deal of the problem.
 
2013-01-31 07:16:54 PM  

RevMercutio: muck4doo: Mrtraveler01: muck4doo: whidbey: Dimensio: Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.

I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.

You are insisting that gun owners not be held accountable for their property and you are loathe to allow the legal system be the arbiter in such cases.  You clearly  want special rights.

No, more like you want to do blanket punishments on people who never did anything wrong. But you're an authoritarian douche asshat, and we already know that.

I don't think you should be charged if your gun was stolen by a criminal, but if you knowingly gave a weapon to a criminal of your free will, then you deserved to be charged for something IMHO.

Serial numbers can be taken out.

And giant meteors can fall on your house tomorrow. Just because something can happen doesn't mean it always does.


Yes, giant meteors falling on my house and criminals scratching out serial numbers on illegally purchased guns have the same absolute chance of happening.

/This is why most people don't take you gun grabbing tards seriously.
 
2013-01-31 07:17:07 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier

CPR, AED, First Responder, Lifeguard Trainer, and Emergency Tracheotomy. I've used it twice, both times in a situation where someone was in peril (anaphylactic shock and a distressed child struggling to stay above water, in that order). I don't own a gun, and I'm a liberal.

If you've fired a gun at a human being with the sole purpose of saving the lives of people around you less than 2 times, then I'm winning that race. There are better means to save a life than carrying a projectile launcher.
So by your argument, if we find a person who has had your training and not saved anyone than their efforts are wasted?

So your claim is since I -one person out of millions- have thankfully never had to discharge my weapon than all guns are useless for defense? I've never driven my car to NY. Does that mean cars aren't needed in NY State?

You're free to google up the thousands of times firearms are used by non-cops to save lives. I posted a list of 7 or so just this month -including examples with "AR15 style firearms"- in another thread yesterday, so it shouldn't be to hard for you to find.
 
2013-01-31 07:17:21 PM  

whidbey: Farkage: whidbey: Dimensio: Gun owners are not gods. They are people, and you want them to be treated with more rights than people.

I have advocated no additional rights for firearm owners. Your claim is a lie, and your proposal of absolute liability without exception regardless of any precautions taken by a firearm owner remains entirely unreasonable.

You are insisting that gun owners not be held accountable for their property and you are loathe to allow the legal system be the arbiter in such cases.  You clearly  want special rights.

So if a criminal breaks into your locked garage, steals your car and kills someone with it, you go to jail because f*ck you.  That's what you're saying?

No,  you are saying that a gun should be equated with an automobile.  Which has nothing to do with my point.


You're saying you should be held responsible for what someone does with your property even when you've taken steps to secure it.  In other words, what I said was dead on.
 
2013-01-31 07:17:24 PM  

Farkage: Princess Ryans Knickers: The Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that 80 percent of state inmates purchased guns from family, friends, a street buy or an illegal source. Those guns don't grow on trees. ATF trafficking investigations show that many of them come from trafficking from gun shows.
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/backgroundchecks/gunshowloo ph ole#Harlow

Gun shows are a major trafficking channel according to ATF, with an average of 130 guns trafficked per investigation, and over 25,000 firearms trafficked in total over one 17-month period alone http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/backgroundchecks/gunshowloop h ole#ATF

Bush Attorney General Gonzales:  "...gun shows are a marketplace for felons and other prohibited persons to buy firearms from unlicensed sellers without background checks "

Holy crap, you're citing the f'ing Brady campaign?  The same group that got busted talking about how many "Children" are killed each year by guns until they got called out for classifying anyone under the age of 26 as a 'child' and including people the Police shot during the commission of a crime?  Really?


Attack the source... also known as having no argument or supporting facts to defend their position. AKA Fail.
 
2013-01-31 07:17:41 PM  

pedrop357: whidbey: I submit that the NRA and the other gun lobbies have wanted to keep the industry and the sale of firearms as unregulated as possible, and that has proven to be a great deal of the problem.

I submit that the ACLU and the other speech lobbies have wanted to keep the industry and the sale of books and magazines as unregulated as possible, and that has proven to be a great deal of the problem.


Ah the old guns are books, cars, knives, jars of peanut butter bullshiat and not actual GUNS subject to specific criteria.
 
2013-01-31 07:17:44 PM  

OnlyM3: highendmighty
Stimulate the economy by legislating biometric triggers on all existing firearms. It wouldn't be theft proof, or insane-wielder proof, but it would prevent the unauthorized use. Expensive? Yes. More valuable than innocent human lives? We've spent more money on less noble causes... even those clowns on mythbusters were able to circumvent biometric locks. Care to try for a real world, non-sci-fi answer?


Are you serious?  Mythbusters said it isn't possible, ergo ???
You are assuming I am taking a "do it today" position, talking like a politician who thinks if you can't do it now,  it won't matter for the future.  It's called investing resources into something that will matter for generations, not whether or not implementing a half-assed plan today would make a half-assed difference tomorrow.
Everything is science fiction - that's how we develop technology; and, the truth is, there are multiple  smart gun technologies on the verge of working as reliably as the existing mechanisms.
 
2013-01-31 07:17:56 PM  
A paraprofessional suffered minor injuries when she was trampled by students who had heard the gunshot
 
DAFUG?
 
2013-01-31 07:18:34 PM  

whidbey: Ah the old guns are books, cars, knives, jars of peanut butter bullshiat and not actual GUNS subject to specific criteria.


Guns and books are both articles of a protected right, and all rights are equal.
 
2013-01-31 07:18:48 PM  

Farkage: No, you are saying that a gun should be equated with an automobile. Which has nothing to do with my point.

You're saying you should be held responsible for what someone does with your property even when you've taken steps to secure it. In other words, what I said was dead on.


I am talking about a GUN.  Which someone OWNS and was stolen.

Why do you feel the need to talk about something completely unrelated?
 
2013-01-31 07:19:25 PM  

pedrop357: I submit that the ACLU and the other speech lobbies have wanted to keep the industry and the sale of books and magazines as unregulated as possible, and that has proven to be a great deal of the problem.


Magazines, I can see.
What about round clips?
 
2013-01-31 07:19:33 PM  

whidbey: I am talking about a GUN. Which someone OWNS and was stolen.

Why do you feel the need to talk about something completely unrelated?


You're a farking moron if you can't understand the usefulness of parallels and analogies.
 
2013-01-31 07:21:01 PM  

pedrop357: whidbey: Ah the old guns are books, cars, knives, jars of peanut butter bullshiat and not actual GUNS subject to specific criteria.

Guns and books are both articles of a protected right, and all rights are equal.


Except Freedom of Speech isn't pre-faced with WELL-REGULATED as guns are.
 
2013-01-31 07:21:20 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: HeWhoHasNoName: The 40% falsehood is from a single poorly-conducted survey from before background checks were even in place under the Brady Act. It included transactions between immediate family members, dealers buying from the public and from other dealers, and several other situations that can only be construed as "loopholes" with extraordinary intellectual dishonesty.

The actual figure for the type of transactions you're trying to represent is significantly less than 10%.

Odd since someone else further up the thread from you provided the 40% and he, also, was claiming I was wrong. Funnily he had supporting documentation... and you don't.


http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/338735/40-percent-myth-john-l ot t#

That link includes the .pdf to the original survey - which was less than 300 samples, and was conducted more than two decades ago, at a point in time prior to changes in federal law about how gun sales were conducted.  Ignoring for a moment that less than 300 samples is dubiously small for the subject in question, that data is two decades and a significant change in federal law out of date.

So yes.  I DO have documentation.  You can choose to ignore it or try and wave your arms around and call it spin or propaganda or whatever excuse I'm sure you'll trot out to try and salvage your argument, but the fact of the matter is that analysis of the data by people more familiar with the details of the laws and activities in question at the time the data was collected have determined the "40%" figure is factually inaccurate as a representation of "overall gun sales without background checks".

Continue to present it as such at your own imperilment of what little credibility you have left.