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(Military.com)   Former and current Green Berets explain why they do not support the current gun control efforts   (military.com) divider line 762
    More: Interesting, Army Special Forces, McChrystal, local board, lobbying  
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4122 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Jan 2013 at 11:28 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-31 10:46:03 AM  
I had no idea that the Green Berets were trained in criminology.  Is that part of the basic training program, or something they're expected to take at war colleges?
 
2013-01-31 10:48:21 AM  

Babwa Wawa: I had no idea that the Green Berets were trained in criminology.  Is that part of the basic training program, or something they're expected to take at war colleges?



No, but considering how familiar they are with firearms, I would trust their opinion over some moonbat or Brit on CNN who says "ZOMG WE NEED TO BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS AND MACHINE GUNS."
 
2013-01-31 10:50:25 AM  
Ask these folks if it mattered that the gunman had to stop and reload. One of them is even an advocate of guns...

1)  http://fox4kc.com/2013/01/18/shooting-survivor-remains-gun-advocate/

"When the gunman stopped to reload, a church member took action. "

2)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucson_shooting

" Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair. "

3)  http://my.umbc.edu/media/5358

"As the gunman reloaded, Hupp escaped through a broken window and believed that her mother, Ursula Gratia, was behind her. "
 
2013-01-31 10:59:10 AM  
Oops....forgot to cite what my post was in response to:
"Would an increase of 6 -8 seconds make any real difference to the outcome in a mass shooting incident? In our opinion it would not."
 
2013-01-31 11:01:01 AM  
"Would an increase of 6 -8 seconds make any real difference to the outcome in a mass shooting incident? In our opinion it would not."

One one-thousand.

Two one-thousand.

Three one-thousand.

Four one-thousand.

Five one-thousand.

Six one-thousand.

Seven one-thousand.

Eight one-thousand.


A person could run several feet and tackle someone (or escape) in that amount of time. So I'm a bit unclear on what criteria they used to form their opinion.
 
2013-01-31 11:03:27 AM  

Blues_X: A person could run several feet and tackle someone (or escape) in that amount of time. So I'm a bit unclear on what criteria they used to form their opinion.


They really, really love guns.
 
2013-01-31 11:04:29 AM  

The_Sponge: Babwa Wawa: I had no idea that the Green Berets were trained in criminology.  Is that part of the basic training program, or something they're expected to take at war colleges?


No, but considering how familiar they are with firearms, I would trust their opinion over some moonbat or Brit on CNN who says "ZOMG WE NEED TO BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS AND MACHINE GUNS."


Would you really? I can't believe that. I hope your trolling.
 
2013-01-31 11:06:26 AM  

johnryan51: Would you really? I can't believe that. I hope your trolling.



Not trolling, pal.

Anyone who throws "machine guns" into an argument about gun control has already lost the debate.
 
2013-01-31 11:11:31 AM  

The_Sponge: Anyone who throws "machine guns" into an argument about gun control has already lost the debate.



ah.... so you've already lost?
 
2013-01-31 11:12:56 AM  

Blues_X: The_Sponge: Anyone who throws "machine guns" into an argument about gun control has already lost the debate.


ah.... so you've already lost?



Hurrrrrr.

I was referring to the people that do....as a way of making an emotional appeal, and trying to win over people who know little about current firearm laws.

It's called proving an example, maybe you've heard of it.
 
2013-01-31 11:14:25 AM  
Nobody at all should care what you have to say on this matter. Simply having spent some time using one doesn't mean you get to build policy.
 
2013-01-31 11:14:33 AM  
I've said it before and I'll say it again if you need more than a semi-auto pistol with a 10 shot magazine to defend yourself in your own home you have either done something illegal and the cops are coming in or you've done something illegal and you pissed off the wrong fellow criminals.

A burglar or random home invasion should be easily held off with a 9mm till the cops arrive.
 
2013-01-31 11:16:16 AM  

NuttierThanEver: I've said it before and I'll say it again if you need more than a semi-auto pistol with a 10 shot magazine to defend yourself in your own home you have either done something illegal and the cops are coming in or you've done something illegal and you pissed off the wrong fellow criminals.



You do realize that many models of handguns come with magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, right?
 
2013-01-31 11:17:56 AM  

The_Sponge: johnryan51: Would you really? I can't believe that. I hope your trolling.


Not trolling, pal.

Anyone who throws "machine guns" into an argument about gun control has already lost the debate.


Well...  The gun nuts won this debate a long time ago.  That's why we are having all these problems now.  It's our inability to accept the inevitable result of giving the gun nuts what they want.  Dead kids are just the price we pay for arming complete morons to fight in a war against a tyranny that will never happen in this country.

But, yeah.  When you're preparing yourself to fight an imaginary war against an imaginary enemy, I guess it's usually best to go balls-out crazy.
 
2013-01-31 11:18:42 AM  
In its letter, the group also offers several recommendations it says will help solve gun-violence, including gun-safety programs in schools, legislation mandating that court-determined mentally ill people undergo treatment, and giving border states the job of implementing border control laws to prevent illegal shipments of both firearms and drugs.
The government intercepts only about 10 percent of illegal drugs coming into the country, while its attempt to track illegal guns has also proven a failure, the group said, pointing to the "Fast and Furious" program that allowed criminals to buy and move guns.


wasn't the fast and furious program the one where licensed gun dealers in the united states legally sold guns to people who then trafficked them to drug cartels in mexico?  how does that have anything to do with this discussion?
 
2013-01-31 11:19:25 AM  

The_Sponge: NuttierThanEver: I've said it before and I'll say it again if you need more than a semi-auto pistol with a 10 shot magazine to defend yourself in your own home you have either done something illegal and the cops are coming in or you've done something illegal and you pissed off the wrong fellow criminals.


You do realize that many models of handguns come with magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, right?


And?
 
2013-01-31 11:20:28 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: The_Sponge: NuttierThanEver: I've said it before and I'll say it again if you need more than a semi-auto pistol with a 10 shot magazine to defend yourself in your own home you have either done something illegal and the cops are coming in or you've done something illegal and you pissed off the wrong fellow criminals.


You do realize that many models of handguns come with magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, right?

And?



And it's pretty farking stupid to pass a magazine limit.
 
2013-01-31 11:23:11 AM  

Vodka Zombie: The_Sponge: johnryan51: Would you really? I can't believe that. I hope your trolling.


Not trolling, pal.

Anyone who throws "machine guns" into an argument about gun control has already lost the debate.

Well...  The gun nuts won this debate a long time ago.  That's why we are having all these problems now.  It's our inability to accept the inevitable result of giving the gun nuts what they want.  Dead kids are just the price we pay for arming complete morons to fight in a war against a tyranny that will never happen in this country.

But, yeah.  When you're preparing yourself to fight an imaginary war against an imaginary enemy, I guess it's usually best to go balls-out crazy.


You're talking to a guy who once said "Casino is my favorite film but I don't like that Robert de Niro's character dies at the end".

I mention it for perspective.
 
2013-01-31 11:25:18 AM  

The_Sponge: cameroncrazy1984: The_Sponge: NuttierThanEver: I've said it before and I'll say it again if you need more than a semi-auto pistol with a 10 shot magazine to defend yourself in your own home you have either done something illegal and the cops are coming in or you've done something illegal and you pissed off the wrong fellow criminals.


You do realize that many models of handguns come with magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, right?

And?


And it's pretty farking stupid to pass a magazine limit.


Why? If you need 17 shots to hit anything within handgun range with a Glock, you've got bigger problems.
 
2013-01-31 11:30:15 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Why? If you need 17 shots to hit anything within handgun range with a Glock, you've got bigger problems.


The argument is that magazine sizes are irrelevant and pointless, and have no bearing on the usage of the weapons.

Which is why it's important that they cannot be limited. For... reasons.
 
2013-01-31 11:31:07 AM  
Cars go faster than 65mph, so it's pretty stupid to pass a speed limit.
 
2013-01-31 11:31:48 AM  

Tigger: You're talking to a guy who once said "Casino is my favorite film but I don't like that Robert de Niro's character dies at the end".



So you have to make shiat up now?

I never said that.  What I said was that they make it look like he died in the explosion right before the opening credits.
 
2013-01-31 11:33:06 AM  
So a letter of boilerplate right wing pablum and nobody is allowed to know who signed it. This is indeed powerful stuff.
 
2013-01-31 11:33:08 AM  
Spare me the deification of the military nonsense.  Their opinion matters no more than anyone else's.
 
2013-01-31 11:33:19 AM  
In its letter, the group also offers several recommendations it says will help solve gun-violence, including gun-safety programs in schools, legislation mandating that court-determined mentally ill people undergo treatment, and giving border states the job of implementing border control laws to prevent illegal shipments of both firearms and drugs.

Why would they believe that would be an improvement?
 
2013-01-31 11:33:29 AM  

The_Sponge: cameroncrazy1984: The_Sponge: NuttierThanEver: I've said it before and I'll say it again if you need more than a semi-auto pistol with a 10 shot magazine to defend yourself in your own home you have either done something illegal and the cops are coming in or you've done something illegal and you pissed off the wrong fellow criminals.


You do realize that many models of handguns come with magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, right?

And?


And it's pretty farking stupid to pass a magazine limit.


Yes because forcing someone to reload would do nothing to improve people's chances of finding cover in a mass shooting situation
 
2013-01-31 11:33:36 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Why? If you need 17 shots to hit anything within handgun range with a Glock, you've got bigger problems.



We already have MILLIONS of magazines that hold more than 10 rounds on the market.  So unless you want a ban where people have to turn them in, another "Clinton style" ban won't do anything.
 
2013-01-31 11:34:26 AM  

The_Sponge: Babwa Wawa: I had no idea that the Green Berets were trained in criminology.  Is that part of the basic training program, or something they're expected to take at war colleges?


No, but considering how familiar they are with firearms, I would trust their opinion over some moonbat or Brit on CNN who says "ZOMG WE NEED TO BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS AND MACHINE GUNS."


Why should I listen to some doctor talk about STDs when I've got about 30 Ron Jeremy videos.
 
2013-01-31 11:34:30 AM  

NuttierThanEver: Yes because forcing someone to reload would do nothing to improve people's chances of finding cover in a mass shooting situation



And how do you propose getting millions of magazines out of circulation?
 
2013-01-31 11:34:32 AM  
 
2013-01-31 11:35:06 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Blues_X: A person could run several feet and tackle someone (or escape) in that amount of time. So I'm a bit unclear on what criteria they used to form their opinion.

They really, really love guns.


But are really bad at aiming them, hence the need for large magazine capacities, etc.
 
2013-01-31 11:36:08 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Why should I listen to some doctor talk about STDs when I've got about 30 Ron Jeremy videos.



Well that's a poor analogy.

I was referring to gun control supporters who have no idea what they are talking about.  How is that parallel to a doctor?
 
2013-01-31 11:36:47 AM  

xria: But are really bad at aiming them, hence the need for large magazine capacities, etc.



Or maybe I just want the magazines that come standard with my handguns.
 
2013-01-31 11:37:32 AM  

The_Sponge: xria: But are really bad at aiming them, hence the need for large magazine capacities, etc.


Or maybe I just want the magazines that come standard with my handguns.


And such standards never ever change, right?
 
2013-01-31 11:38:03 AM  

The_Sponge: johnryan51: Would you really? I can't believe that. I hope your trolling.


Not trolling, pal.

Anyone who throws "machine guns" into an argument about gun control has already lost the debate.


That would imply a debate has begun. It hasn't. Because everybody's yelling and nobody's listening. So a bunch of SF guys oppose it. Fine. OFFER A GODDAMN SOLUTION then instead of engaging in pointless farking grandstanding.
 
2013-01-31 11:38:38 AM  

The_Sponge: cameroncrazy1984: Why? If you need 17 shots to hit anything within handgun range with a Glock, you've got bigger problems.


We already have MILLIONS of magazines that hold more than 10 rounds on the market.  So unless you want a ban where people have to turn them in, another "Clinton style" ban won't do anything.


Wow, where can I get these magic magazines that last forever?
 
2013-01-31 11:38:45 AM  

qorkfiend: The_Sponge: xria: But are really bad at aiming them, hence the need for large magazine capacities, etc.


Or maybe I just want the magazines that come standard with my handguns.

And such standards never ever change, right?



F*ck it....let's just ban all semi-auto handguns and only allow people to own revolvers.
 
2013-01-31 11:40:02 AM  

The_Sponge: xria: But are really bad at aiming them, hence the need for large magazine capacities, etc.


Or maybe I just want the magazines that come standard with my handguns.


If there's a ban, you will get the magazines that come standard with your handguns, unless the manufacturer wants to break the law.
 
2013-01-31 11:40:36 AM  

NuttierThanEver: The_Sponge: cameroncrazy1984: The_Sponge: NuttierThanEver: I've said it before and I'll say it again if you need more than a semi-auto pistol with a 10 shot magazine to defend yourself in your own home you have either done something illegal and the cops are coming in or you've done something illegal and you pissed off the wrong fellow criminals.


You do realize that many models of handguns come with magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, right?

And?


And it's pretty farking stupid to pass a magazine limit.

Yes because forcing someone to reload would do nothing to improve people's chances of finding cover in a mass shooting situation


Do you think the guy intent on creating a mass shooting is thinking about getting caught with a 30+ round magazine....he is about to take lives. The charge for possession of a 30 rounder pales in comparison to what he is about to do or something
 
2013-01-31 11:40:41 AM  

The_Sponge: qorkfiend: The_Sponge: xria: But are really bad at aiming them, hence the need for large magazine capacities, etc.


Or maybe I just want the magazines that come standard with my handguns.

And such standards never ever change, right?


F*ck it....let's just ban all semi-auto handguns and only allow people to own revolvers.


Slippery slope arguments are a logical fallacy, bud.
 
2013-01-31 11:40:43 AM  

LasersHurt: Nobody at all should care what you have to say on this matter. Simply having spent some time using one doesn't mean you get to build policy.


But it's totally cool when a POG like biden's son rants against the evil assault weapons, right?
 
2013-01-31 11:41:04 AM  
Would 6-8 seconds really make a difference?  I dunno.  If someone I cared about had 6-8 extra seconds to escape or 6-8 seconds extra for the cavalry to arrive, I'm gonna go with YES.
 
2013-01-31 11:41:53 AM  
This guy agrees with the letter...

www.addictinginfo.org
 
2013-01-31 11:41:55 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: The_Sponge: xria: But are really bad at aiming them, hence the need for large magazine capacities, etc.


Or maybe I just want the magazines that come standard with my handguns.

If there's a ban, you will get the magazines that come standard with your handguns, unless the manufacturer wants to break the law.



What difference does it make if (OH NO!), I get to have 15 round mags instead of 10 round mags?
 
2013-01-31 11:42:18 AM  

Giltric: NuttierThanEver: The_Sponge: cameroncrazy1984: The_Sponge: NuttierThanEver: I've said it before and I'll say it again if you need more than a semi-auto pistol with a 10 shot magazine to defend yourself in your own home you have either done something illegal and the cops are coming in or you've done something illegal and you pissed off the wrong fellow criminals.


You do realize that many models of handguns come with magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, right?

And?


And it's pretty farking stupid to pass a magazine limit.

Yes because forcing someone to reload would do nothing to improve people's chances of finding cover in a mass shooting situation

Do you think the guy intent on creating a mass shooting is thinking about getting caught with a 30+ round magazine....he is about to take lives. The charge for possession of a 30 rounder pales in comparison to what he is about to do or something


He's only worried that the a brave concealed carry holder will shoot him.
 
2013-01-31 11:42:31 AM  
Apparently CAFE standards are also stupid. I just want the fuel economy that the manufacturers WANT to give me!
 
2013-01-31 11:42:49 AM  

Blues_X: "Would an increase of 6 -8 seconds make any real difference to the outcome in a mass shooting incident? In our opinion it would not."

One one-thousand.

Two one-thousand.

Three one-thousand.

Four one-thousand.

Five one-thousand.

Six one-thousand.

Seven one-thousand.

Eight one-thousand.


A person could run several feet and tackle someone (or escape) in that amount of time. So I'm a bit unclear on what criteria they used to form their opinion.


it is not consecutive seconds. It is cumulative seconds to change 2 magazines. Even then 3-4 seconds on a mag swap is on the longer side of estimates. It is more like 1-2 seconds to swap a mag.
 
2013-01-31 11:42:53 AM  

qorkfiend: The_Sponge: xria: But are really bad at aiming them, hence the need for large magazine capacities, etc.


Or maybe I just want the magazines that come standard with my handguns.

And such standards never ever change, right?


No new... fix old.

Also, never forget.  If you make 17 round clips illegal only illegals will have 17 round clips.
 
2013-01-31 11:42:58 AM  

Frank N Stein: LasersHurt: Nobody at all should care what you have to say on this matter. Simply having spent some time using one doesn't mean you get to build policy.

But it's totally cool when a POG like biden's son rants against the evil assault weapons, right?


Anyone can sat what they want. I didn't say "You are not allowed to say these things." I said "nobody should listen to you." Biden's son can say whatever he likes.
 
2013-01-31 11:43:10 AM  

The_Sponge: Rapmaster2000: Why should I listen to some doctor talk about STDs when I've got about 30 Ron Jeremy videos.


Well that's a poor analogy.

I was referring to gun control supporters who have no idea what they are talking about.  How is that parallel to a doctor?


The issue isn't "guns".  The issue is "gun control".  Ergo, the ability to shoot someone in the face at 300 yards is equivalent in expertise on "gun control" to the ability to be some moonbat CNN.
 
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