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(Slate)   The nuclear waste storage facility next door   (slate.com) divider line 70
    More: Scary, Yucca Mountain, Nuclear Regulatory Commission, yucca, Idaho National Laboratory, telecommunications facility, nuclear waste, spent fuel pool, Gun politics  
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7054 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jan 2013 at 10:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-31 10:13:05 AM
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4092 - Rethinking Nuclear Power
Are modern nuclear reactors as bad for us as the environmentalists have painted them?

tl;dr -  http://skeptoid.com/audio/skeptoid-4092.mp3
 
2013-01-31 10:16:52 AM
so, that article pretty much ignores all the stuff it started out with

wtf is the deal with the machine guns?  the writer said nothing about why they wanted more guns.

fta:
There's got to be a better solution.   And here's the crazy part: There is. The scientists have proposed it. The environmentalists and the power companies agree on it. So why isn't America doing it?

so, wtf was the better solution?  the problem is burying the shiat deep.  the solution is burying the shiat deep...

it's like this guy writes cliffhangers for crappy shows that never pick up the hook on the next episode.
 
2013-01-31 10:21:23 AM
Swimming in the spent fuel swimming pool could actually be /SAFER/ than walking around outside on a normal day.   http://what-if.xkcd.com/29/
 
2013-01-31 10:22:10 AM
I have heard about Yucca literally since I was old enough to be interested in "stuff".  It seems to me the Boomers just decided to stop doing the stuff that made America great 30 years ago and instead just kept repeating "USA!USA!" and daring anyone to say they were wrong.

You were wrong. The world we live in today is testament to a generational inability to take power seriously.
 
2013-01-31 10:27:18 AM

TelemonianAjax: I have heard about Yucca literally since I was old enough to be interested in "stuff".  It seems to me the Boomers just decided to stop doing the stuff that made America great 30 years ago and instead just kept repeating "USA!USA!" and daring anyone to say they were wrong.

You were wrong. The world we live in today is testament to a generational inability to take power seriously.


He lays it out pretty well, Nevada does not want it, but the law says they can't do anything else. We must first get the law changed to allow for another site.

Perhaps once it is changed we can consider shipping the nuclear waste and storing it on the moon, but first we would have to build a moon base. Maybe we can call it moon base Obama.
 
2013-01-31 10:28:15 AM
Nevada needs to just bend over and let America stick its rods into a hole in Yucca.
 
2013-01-31 10:29:21 AM
25.media.tumblr.com

Sooo lonely...
 
2013-01-31 10:30:27 AM
content7.flixster.com
May I see...this storage facility?
 
2013-01-31 10:30:29 AM
I'm sitting about 500 yards from one of these so-called "nuclear dumpsters."

They are incredibly well engineered, naturally cooling storage casks inside immense concrete vaults. They're guarded as tightly as the plant itself. They're certainly rugged enough to last more than "decades."

And, they are the nuclear industry's only option until a waste facility is finally opened so we can ship the casks offsite.

TFA's author is an idiot in claiming that the NRC wants more guns, larger magazines, etc. The NRC doesn't provide security at a nuclear site. Our security is no joke, and it's (correctly) required by the NRC - but the NRC doesn't carry weapons. We leave that to trained professionals.
 
2013-01-31 10:35:14 AM
If arizona doesn't want it then put it in west texas...  Surely we can do something with all those mesas out there...

/texan
 
2013-01-31 10:35:55 AM
I've got a wood lot you guy can use. I'll need $500 million per year and all those guns you were talking about.
 
2013-01-31 10:36:56 AM
Just sneak all the waste onto some submarines and secretly dump it all into the ocean off China's coast. When the casks rupture in about 50 years and create a catastrophe it'll all be on their plate. And they'll take the blame too. Think anyone will believe em when they say they didn't put it there? Naw.
 
2013-01-31 10:37:52 AM

Raharu: Are modern nuclear reactors as bad for us as the environmentalists have painted them?


No.
 
2013-01-31 10:38:18 AM

Ned Stark: Just sneak all the waste onto some submarines and secretly dump it all into the ocean off China's coast. When the casks rupture in about 50 years and create a catastrophe it'll all be on their plate. And they'll take the blame too. Think anyone will believe em when they say they didn't put it there? Naw.


That has to be the best plan I've ever heard for anything. +1.
 
2013-01-31 10:38:38 AM
They didn't even mention WIPP?


The first nuclear waste arrived to the plant on March 26, 1999. This waste shipment was from Los Alamos National Laboratory, a major nuclear weapons research and development facility located north of Albuquerque, New Mexico. Another shipment followed on April 6 of the same year. These shipments marked the beginning of plant operations.[10] As of December 2010, the plant had received and stored 9,207 shipments (72,422 cubic meters) of waste. The majority of this waste was transported to the facility via railroad or truck.[3] The final facility contains a total of 56 storage rooms located approximately 650 meters underground. Each room is 100 yards in length.[8] The plant is estimated to continue accepting waste for 25 to 35 years and is estimated to cost a grand total of 19 billion dollars.[10]

I'd say the article fails,

I like the warning sign:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-01-31 10:38:57 AM
The law has been written, the site is a good one. fark the pansy politicians and put the waste there. Jesus Christ.
 
2013-01-31 10:40:48 AM

Zapruder: [content7.flixster.com image 250x224]
May I see...this storage facility?


Everything was going fine, sir, until our containment grid was shut off by Dickless, here.
 
2013-01-31 10:42:09 AM
Didn't I read something last week about how graphene was eventually gonna solve (or at least simplify) the nuclear waste issue?
 
2013-01-31 10:43:23 AM
Slaves2Darkness: We must first get the law changed to allow for another site.


What I don't get is why we have to change the law and get another site.   A decision was made, now we will follow through with it.  This is the stagnation I'm talking about, thinking that every thing can just be undone a couple years down the road and done the way someone else wants, which means nothing gets done.

WE HOLLOWED OUT A GODDAMN MOUNTAIN!  This isn't a project that's in the early stages, it's been worked on for 30 years and is insanely expensive.  Just like abortion, Obamacare, the never ending tax talk, free trade, immigration, gun control: These are all the same arguments America has been having for 30 years.  Congratulations, conservatives, you have finally stood astride history and yelled Stop.
 
2013-01-31 10:50:21 AM
Well, I <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8WkOHdpifc"> mangled the shiat out of that quote</a>....hey it's been over ten years since I watched that, eh.
 
2013-01-31 10:51:20 AM

SuperChuck: Raharu: Are modern nuclear reactors as bad for us as the environmentalists have painted them?

No.



Exactly.
 
2013-01-31 10:51:44 AM

Ishidan: Zapruder: [content7.flixster.com image 250x224]
May I see...this storage facility?

Everything was going fine, sir, until our containment grid was shut off by Dickless, here.


Is that true?
 
2013-01-31 10:58:54 AM

Committee_For_Aesthetic_Deletions: but the NRC doesn't carry weapons. We leave that to trained professionals.


The NRC might not, but the NNSA and the DOE sure do. I've been involved in some inter-agency sales with them - they buy good stuff.
 
2013-01-31 11:00:28 AM

wraithmare: Ishidan: Zapruder: [content7.flixster.com image 250x224]
May I see...this storage facility?

Everything was going fine, sir, until our containment grid was shut off by Dickless, here.

Is that true?


Yes, your honor, this man has no dick.


/Well that's what I heard!
 
2013-01-31 11:00:49 AM
Why are we not using thorium again?
 
2013-01-31 11:04:15 AM

Happy Hours: They didn't even mention WIPP?



Look a few paragraphs down in the article under the "Criteria" section.  That's why it can't be used for the waste the article refers to.
 
2013-01-31 11:11:47 AM

wraithmare: Ishidan: Zapruder: [content7.flixster.com image 250x224]
May I see...this storage facility?

Everything was going fine, sir, until our containment grid was shut off by Dickless, here.

Is that true?


Yes sir, this man has no dick.
 
2013-01-31 11:12:38 AM

Uisce Beatha: wraithmare: Ishidan: Zapruder: [content7.flixster.com image 250x224]
May I see...this storage facility?

Everything was going fine, sir, until our containment grid was shut off by Dickless, here.

Is that true?

Yes, your honor, this man has no dick.


/Well that's what I heard!


I read slow :/
 
2013-01-31 11:13:00 AM
What happens to a hole when you fill it up? It's full. Now where are you going to put all that lethal waste?

Our goals should be to get rid of the damn power plants.
 
2013-01-31 11:24:18 AM
you know.. we could also, *GASP*, recycle it...
 
2013-01-31 11:24:28 AM

TelemonianAjax: Slaves2Darkness: We must first get the law changed to allow for another site.


What I don't get is why we have to change the law and get another site.   A decision was made, now we will follow through with it.  This is the stagnation I'm talking about, thinking that every thing can just be undone a couple years down the road and done the way someone else wants, which means nothing gets done.

WE HOLLOWED OUT A GODDAMN MOUNTAIN!  This isn't a project that's in the early stages, it's been worked on for 30 years and is insanely expensive.  Just like abortion, Obamacare, the never ending tax talk, free trade, immigration, gun control: These are all the same arguments America has been having for 30 years.  Congratulations, conservatives, you have finally stood astride history and yelled Stop.


You seriously went off the derp cliff there at the end.  How is this the conservatives fault?  Maybe I missed that information somewhere.

oh right... This is fark, they are always at fault...
 
2013-01-31 11:28:40 AM
static.flickr.com

Well, storing it on the moon was a bad idea. Sept 13th. Never forget!
 
2013-01-31 11:29:47 AM
Hicksville, NY.
 
2013-01-31 11:33:39 AM

Maul555: TelemonianAjax: Slaves2Darkness: We must first get the law changed to allow for another site.


What I don't get is why we have to change the law and get another site.   A decision was made, now we will follow through with it.  This is the stagnation I'm talking about, thinking that every thing can just be undone a couple years down the road and done the way someone else wants, which means nothing gets done.

WE HOLLOWED OUT A GODDAMN MOUNTAIN!  This isn't a project that's in the early stages, it's been worked on for 30 years and is insanely expensive.  Just like abortion, Obamacare, the never ending tax talk, free trade, immigration, gun control: These are all the same arguments America has been having for 30 years.  Congratulations, conservatives, you have finally stood astride history and yelled Stop.

You seriously went off the derp cliff there at the end.  How is this the conservatives fault?  Maybe I missed that information somewhere.

oh right... This is fark, they are always at fault...


Yeah, you can tell when the car leaves the cliff on that one.  It's a general rant I've been having in my head for a few years now.  No, I don't think it's conservatives who are at fault re: Yucca.  However, it's undeniable that there are no decisions that actually have consequences anymore, there's always the next election, the next SCOTUS case, the next fiscal cliff negotiation, where a losing side can try to win the next battle, thus ensuring there is never forward motion made.  This happens to coincide perfectly with William F. Buckley's famous pronouncement that the intent of conservatism was to stand astride history and yell "Stop!", which sounds awfully bold and pretty but is a petulant and self defeating approach to reality.

It's strange, but this project just strikes a nerve for me because attempts to change it at this time are so patently childish.So here we are, 30 years and $9 billion (yes, billion) into the project to hollow out a mountain and put it to use securing our own energy production, and people are still trying to say that we can undo this decision because they don't like it.  When I ask my daughter whether she wants juice or milk to drink with dinner and she tells me juice, I go get a cup of juice and set it on the table for her.  when she tells me she changed her mind and that she wants milk, I point out that I asked her what she wanted already, and I've gotten her what she wanted, the time for decisions is over.  I really don't see how that situation is different from what's going on here, a decision was present, was made, was followed through on, and now a group decides it wants a do-over with no change in circumstance, despite the previous decision already being underway.
 
2013-01-31 11:33:48 AM

kattana: you know.. we could also, *GASP*, recycle it...


Bill Gates has an awesome TED Talk on the subject
http://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates.html
 
2013-01-31 11:34:39 AM

Stoker: What happens to a hole when you fill it up? It's full. Now where are you going to put all that lethal waste?

Our goals should be to get rid of the damn power plants.


Good idea. Let's get rid of our most productive clean sources of electricity.
 
2013-01-31 11:47:36 AM
First, if I had a choice of burning oil, NG, or god forbid, coal, I'd take the issues of nuclear waste in a heartbeat. Second, It's NOT useless waste! In many case, over 80% of the available energy is still in that waste. It's just not profitable to reprocess it to remove the daughter products that poison further use of the current fuel. Because for now, new fuel is cheaper. But when new fuel reaches a certain cost point, nuclear waste is like money in the bank.
 
2013-01-31 11:58:50 AM
I'm lookin' for some primo, female boner storage
 
2013-01-31 12:02:39 PM
 
2013-01-31 12:12:28 PM
Getting local communities to buy into a nuclear waste repository isn't easy

What kind of incentives would be needed for local politicians to take a dump?
 
2013-01-31 12:25:56 PM

Raharu: Are modern nuclear reactors as bad for us as the environmentalists fossil fuel industry have painted them?


FTFY

Fun Fact:  One of the nation's most prominent pro-nuclear activists is a guy named Patrick Moore.  You might remember him as the guy who founded a little organization called Greenpeace.
 
2013-01-31 12:57:18 PM
When I was living in Las Vegas ('97-'06) Nevadans were quick to take the cash and the jobs for the project.  The really big stop sign didn't come up until after the project was completed & the money was drying up. Then it became NIMBY.
I demonstrated against it from the beginning, although the beginning for me, in '97, was already a little too late for the wheels to be stopped.
 
2013-01-31 12:57:47 PM
I wonder what the feasibility is of creating a 'science party' in politics. Part of me would be really interested as it would be a place where we could look to have no bullshiat answers to stuff and leave out the politics, but part of me doesn't want to sully the good name of science and do anything to associate it with politics, as I believe science is above all that gutterwater.  It's high time I think to start on that LFTR technology. like others have said in here, too many politicians and organizations worried about staying in power and future elections. Nothing gets done anymore, its all passed on to the next generation or even the next few years.

And its any wonder why after the space race america pretty just sat around and has gotten fat, and accomplished very little in the way of huge human works projects, or reaching for the future.
 
2013-01-31 01:08:07 PM
There are ways to 'burn' spent fuel.  Essentially you just need to continue fissioning spent fuel - the various fission products down the chain, smaller and smaller nuclei - until the elements that remain have relatively short half-lives (or aren't radioactive at all).  If memory serves the Japanese even had a concept using a proton accelerator that could get a fair bit of energy out of the process (perhaps not break-even, but close enough).

The main problem, of course, is cost.  What would be interesting to find out is what the cost of fully processing spent fuel down to safer elements on a large enough scale is compared to the amount of money spent arguing over long-term storage.  Of course any storage solution that needs to last (and be maintained) for thousands of years is going to be more expensive than dealing with it over tens of years.
 
2013-01-31 01:31:01 PM
The Yucca facility needs to happen.  First off you can have reactors that can take the spent fuel of other reactors and use it.  You don't get the energy output of some of other reactors but you get something.  With Yucca being 90 miles from Vegas a lot of that energy could flow right into Vegas.  In addition you have the Hoover Dam transmission lines that run to CA.  So you could plug the waste reactors into that grid.  When they're done with your waste, into Yucca it goes.

I'm seeing this complex where you have reactors drawing coolant from Lake Meade (the problem of course is Lake Meade's water level is going to shiat), using the waste, and then moving it on to Yucca in secure convoy.

Canada has a similar setup on their side of the Great Lakes.  A number of regular reactors, some waste reactors, and then a giant hole nearby they drop the final product in (or they are still constructing that hole, one of the two).
 
2013-01-31 03:02:17 PM

pute kisses like a man: so, that article pretty much ignores all the stuff it started out with

wtf is the deal with the machine guns?  the writer said nothing about why they wanted more guns.

fta:
There's got to be a better solution.   And here's the crazy part: There is. The scientists have proposed it. The environmentalists and the power companies agree on it. So why isn't America doing it?

so, wtf was the better solution?  the problem is burying the shiat deep.  the solution is burying the shiat deep...

it's like this guy writes cliffhangers for crappy shows that never pick up the hook on the next episode.


No freaking kidding.  I thought I was missing something.  The author must have some serious distraction issues.
 
2013-01-31 03:23:09 PM
About 5% of the usable energy in a uranium fuel rod is used before it's declared "waste" in the U.S. Other countries reprocess.

Yes, reprocessing is more expensive than throwing it away and getting more, and yes, recycling is totally unAmerican and hippy-dippy liberal.

Tough shiat.
 
2013-01-31 06:54:31 PM
I have stood over the spent fuel pool of a major US nuclear reactor, and I can tell you that it actually does glow iridescent blue. It's something about the radiation activating the boron that's mixed in the water to help create a radiation shield. That was a long time ago - back in the late 1980's

The good thing, is that after all these years I have finally learned how to type with my third hand.
 
2013-01-31 07:45:16 PM

Ned Stark: Just sneak all the waste onto some submarines and secretly dump it all into the ocean off China's coast. When the casks rupture in about 50 years and create a catastrophe it'll all be on their plate. And they'll take the blame too. Think anyone will believe em when they say they didn't put it there? Naw.


what would be wrong with just dumping them into the Mariana Trench
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench

1) international law? meh ignore it.
2) might not be safe long term because of earthquakes? ROFL

not like this shiat floats
not like there is anything down there to eat it and then enter the food chain.
not like there isnt uranium already in the coean water.

yes I know, everyone hates ocean dumping, except that this time, it might be the right time
 
2013-01-31 07:46:49 PM

tekmo: About 5% of the usable energy in a uranium fuel rod is used before it's declared "waste" in the U.S. Other countries reprocess.

Yes, reprocessing is more expensive than throwing it away and getting more, and yes, recycling is totally unAmerican and hippy-dippy liberal.

Tough shiat.


couldnt you also store this at the urnaium mines?
they already have to deal with radiation and what not ...
or the fuel processing plants ... or or or
 
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