If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(CNN)   Judge approves BP plea agreement, record $4 billion fine. Company officials complain that the fine could set them back as much as three days   (cnn.com) divider line 46
    More: Followup, plea deal, gross negligence  
•       •       •

669 clicks; posted to Business » on 31 Jan 2013 at 11:41 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-01-31 11:31:45 AM
there's also criminal charges against individuals, an agreed $500M SEC fine and they're still fighting civil claims by the DoJ for damages that could be in the range of an additional $5-$20 billion.
 
2013-01-31 12:05:55 PM

thomps: there's also criminal charges against individuals, an agreed $500M SEC fine and they're still fighting civil claims by the DoJ for damages that could be in the range of an additional $5-$20 billion.


So in the end, 3 weeks worth of profit. They must be terrified.
 
2013-01-31 12:11:30 PM
That's more than 1% of their annual income.  This is truly a devastating lesson for them.  I wonder if the judge would give me the same draconian punishment for manslaughter charges.
 
2013-01-31 12:12:38 PM

limeyfellow: thomps: there's also criminal charges against individuals, an agreed $500M SEC fine and they're still fighting civil claims by the DoJ for damages that could be in the range of an additional $5-$20 billion.

So in the end, 3 weeks worth of profit. They must be terrified.


i don't mean to white knight bp, but i feel like it's also worth noting the billions of dollars they've spent on the actual clean-up of the spill and payments to those affected by it.
 
2013-01-31 12:16:49 PM

thomps: limeyfellow: thomps: there's also criminal charges against individuals, an agreed $500M SEC fine and they're still fighting civil claims by the DoJ for damages that could be in the range of an additional $5-$20 billion.

So in the end, 3 weeks worth of profit. They must be terrified.

i don't mean to white knight bp, but i feel like it's also worth noting the billions of dollars they've spent on the actual clean-up of the spill and payments to those affected by it.


No, you're white knighting. A company should not be praised for correcting a massive fark up, they should simply do it because it's what a responsible company would do. It's sad in our current corporate environment a company being responsible is a rarity.
 
2013-01-31 12:19:11 PM
How dare you pretend to hold our feet to the fire!
 
2013-01-31 12:19:22 PM
BP shouldn't farking exist after what they did.
 
2013-01-31 12:20:47 PM

max_pooper: thomps: limeyfellow: thomps: there's also criminal charges against individuals, an agreed $500M SEC fine and they're still fighting civil claims by the DoJ for damages that could be in the range of an additional $5-$20 billion.

So in the end, 3 weeks worth of profit. They must be terrified.

i don't mean to white knight bp, but i feel like it's also worth noting the billions of dollars they've spent on the actual clean-up of the spill and payments to those affected by it.

No, you're white knighting. A company should not be praised for correcting a massive fark up, they should simply do it because it's what a responsible company would do. It's sad in our current corporate environment a company being responsible is a rarity.


who's praising anyone? i'm just trying to point out that the headline is severely myopic in its view of the financial impact to BP of its criminal f*ck up.
 
2013-01-31 12:29:05 PM

max_pooper: thomps: limeyfellow: thomps: there's also criminal charges against individuals, an agreed $500M SEC fine and they're still fighting civil claims by the DoJ for damages that could be in the range of an additional $5-$20 billion.

So in the end, 3 weeks worth of profit. They must be terrified.

i don't mean to white knight bp, but i feel like it's also worth noting the billions of dollars they've spent on the actual clean-up of the spill and payments to those affected by it.

No, you're white knighting. A company should not be praised for correcting a massive fark up, they should simply do it because it's what a responsible company would do. It's sad in our current corporate environment a company being responsible is a rarity.


Fair enough, but part of that transaction is being mature enough to be honest about what the company has done rather than just being a shiat-throwing monkey.
 
2013-01-31 12:42:08 PM

Marcus Aurelius: That's more than 1% of their annual income.  This is truly a devastating lesson for them.  I wonder if the judge would give me the same draconian punishment for manslaughter charges.


Well, just to be the devil's advocate... our measly company did $12 mil bucks last year. A fine for 1% of our revenue might not sink us, but it would be closer than I care to think about and it would certainly hurt like a motherfarker. I assume they are doing a little better on the free cash flow than most. I loathe them and used to live in the affected area but the fine is certainly not a slap on the wrist.

I'd bet real money some of the board members are going to have to look at slightly smaller boats this year. Or worse, keep using boats that are like 3-5 years old!
 
2013-01-31 12:43:19 PM

Carousel Beast: max_pooper: thomps: limeyfellow: thomps: there's also criminal charges against individuals, an agreed $500M SEC fine and they're still fighting civil claims by the DoJ for damages that could be in the range of an additional $5-$20 billion.

So in the end, 3 weeks worth of profit. They must be terrified.

i don't mean to white knight bp, but i feel like it's also worth noting the billions of dollars they've spent on the actual clean-up of the spill and payments to those affected by it.

No, you're white knighting. A company should not be praised for correcting a massive fark up, they should simply do it because it's what a responsible company would do. It's sad in our current corporate environment a company being responsible is a rarity.

Fair enough, but part of that transaction is being mature enough to be honest about what the company has done rather than just being a shiat-throwing monkey.


Making whole those who were farked over should not absolve an entity of the legal (civil and criminal) responsibilities of said fark up.

If a person gets hammered and causes a massive car accident, should they be excused of criminal prosecution if they paid to everyone's repair and medical bills?
 
2013-01-31 12:45:49 PM

max_pooper: If a person gets hammered and causes a massive car accident, should they be excused of criminal prosecution if they paid to everyone's repair and medical bills?


Not necessarily. But if it's a choice between jailing them and letting them stick around so they CAN pay restitution I bet the affected families would choose the latter.
 
2013-01-31 12:48:41 PM

max_pooper: Making whole those who were farked over should not absolve an entity of the legal (civil and criminal) responsibilities of said fark up.


how is that in any way relevant to the facts of this case? if they were absolved of civil and criminal liability they wouldn't be paying a settlement or still on the hook for civil liabilities. in addition, individuals who can be shown to have been directly involved with the criminal misdeeds are being charged with such. compared to lehman or any of the other economy-destroying bad-actors that led to the 2008 meltdown, this is a sterling example of justice against corporate malfeasance.
 
2013-01-31 12:49:17 PM

limeyfellow: thomps: there's also criminal charges against individuals, an agreed $500M SEC fine and they're still fighting civil claims by the DoJ for damages that could be in the range of an additional $5-$20 billion.

So in the end, 3 weeks worth of profit. They must be terrified.


Actually, when all is said and done, thanks to fines and settlements, BP will have lost about 1/3 of its value over the Deepwater Horizon accident-but don't cry too hard for them that means they are worth about $120 billion down from $180 billion.

still since the company has now plead guilty to manslaughter, does that mean they get to add a tattooed tear to the company logo?
 
2013-01-31 12:50:42 PM

JohnBigBootay: max_pooper: If a person gets hammered and causes a massive car accident, should they be excused of criminal prosecution if they paid to everyone's repair and medical bills?

Not necessarily. But if it's a choice between jailing them and letting them stick around so they CAN pay restitution I bet the affected families would choose the latter.


Yes, because this fine which equates to a small percentage of the company's operating budget will not allow them to ever pay restitution.
 
2013-01-31 12:52:18 PM

JohnBigBootay: Marcus Aurelius: That's more than 1% of their annual income.  This is truly a devastating lesson for them.  I wonder if the judge would give me the same draconian punishment for manslaughter charges.

Well, just to be the devil's advocate... our measly company did $12 mil bucks last year. A fine for 1% of our revenue might not sink us, but it would be closer than I care to think about and it would certainly hurt like a motherfarker. I assume they are doing a little better on the free cash flow than most. I loathe them and used to live in the affected area but the fine is certainly not a slap on the wrist.

I'd bet real money some of the board members are going to have to look at slightly smaller boats this year. Or worse, keep using boats that are like 3-5 years old!


I'd prefer to see some of their executives in jail, but that's just me.
 
2013-01-31 12:54:46 PM

thomps: compared to lehman or any of the other economy-destroying bad-actors that led to the 2008 meltdown, this is a sterling example of justice against corporate malfeasance.


Agreed.


I'm not happy with BP. But AIG and the investment banks got away with far worse. There was virtually no criminal penalties (I did not say none) And many of them are doing better than before they tried to destroy the financial world. Forget about the gulf coast - those dicks cost virtually every man, woman and child in this country and many others real money and almost none of the perpetrators paid a high price for it.
 
2013-01-31 12:57:07 PM

thomps: max_pooper: Making whole those who were farked over should not absolve an entity of the legal (civil and criminal) responsibilities of said fark up.

how is that in any way relevant to the facts of this case? if they were absolved of civil and criminal liability they wouldn't be paying a settlement or still on the hook for civil liabilities. in addition, individuals who can be shown to have been directly involved with the criminal misdeeds are being charged with such. compared to lehman or any of the other economy-destroying bad-actors that led to the 2008 meltdown, this is a sterling example of justice against corporate malfeasance.


You're the one that came in white knighting them by noting that they paid for the clean costs. Why should the amount of money they paid to correct their fark up have any bearing on the fine should pay for said fark up?
 
2013-01-31 12:59:39 PM

max_pooper: Yes, because this fine which equates to a small percentage of the company's operating budget will not allow them to ever pay restitution.


Geez. How did I get in this boat? I loathe BP. But I think we all know they paid a hell of a lot of restitution in addition to this fine and long prior to it being levied. Do I think it's 'fair'? Depends on how you look at it I guess. 'Fair' to many would be them going out of business. Not sure that's a net win for everyone. If they DID go out of business, fine, I give two shiats. I'm just looking at this in context of other recent corporate malfeasance and in comparison, they got the ban hammer. Is that feeling due to the fact that others didn't receive near enough punishment? Probably.
 
2013-01-31 01:06:47 PM

max_pooper: You're the one that came in white knighting them by noting that they paid for the clean costs. Why should the amount of money they paid to correct their fark up have any bearing on the fine should pay for said fark up?


jesus, it's like talking to a f*cking wall.
 
2013-01-31 01:15:18 PM
fark 'em. Make it $5 Billion and every time they open their mouth to the farking Press another billion gets added.

Do they really not understand the damage they did to the planet?
 
2013-01-31 01:19:55 PM

thomps: who's praising anyone? i'm just trying to point out that the headline is severely myopic in its view of the financial impact to BP of its criminal f*ck up.


Exactly, if BP hadn't spent a penny on the cleanup, then 4 billion is a slap on the wrists.  If it is 4 billion fine for this, 500 million to the SEC, and a damage fund in the tens of the billions, then it isn't.

Personally I think the fine should wait until we see how much they spent in total on the cleanup and the sum of the damage, but they're getting hit.

Plus aren't we also going after Transocean and Haliburton for cash as well?
 
2013-01-31 01:20:09 PM
Pretty cheap for an ocean.
 
2013-01-31 01:20:10 PM

JohnBigBootay: max_pooper: Yes, because this fine which equates to a small percentage of the company's operating budget will not allow them to ever pay restitution.

Geez. How did I get in this boat? I loathe BP. But I think we all know they paid a hell of a lot of restitution in addition to this fine and long prior to it being levied. Do I think it's 'fair'? Depends on how you look at it I guess. 'Fair' to many would be them going out of business. Not sure that's a net win for everyone. If they DID go out of business, fine, I give two shiats. I'm just looking at this in context of other recent corporate malfeasance and in comparison, they got the ban hammer. Is that feeling due to the fact that others didn't receive near enough punishment? Probably.


Fair is not considering the money spent to fix the problem after the fact when considering the fine. The fine should be based solely upon what happened before the spill. It's hard to tell if the money was spent in good faith to correct a mistake or spent in an attempt to purchase good will in the hopes of offsetting criminal and civil responsibility. It's difficult to tell, and certainly not made any easier with the CEO saying the "spill is tiny" and "I want my life back." I'm sorry if your company's malfeasance has caused you stress but the millions of people who were financially burdened want their lives back as well.

The penalties should only be based upon their actions prior to the spill. They were irresponsible and it caused massive amounts of damage, their fine should reflect that.
 
2013-01-31 01:23:21 PM

JohnBigBootay: max_pooper: Yes, because this fine which equates to a small percentage of the company's operating budget will not allow them to ever pay restitution.

Geez. How did I get in this boat? I loathe BP. But I think we all know they paid a hell of a lot of restitution in addition to this fine and long prior to it being levied. Do I think it's 'fair'? Depends on how you look at it I guess. 'Fair' to many would be them going out of business. Not sure that's a net win for everyone. If they DID go out of business, fine, I give two shiats. I'm just looking at this in context of other recent corporate malfeasance and in comparison, they got the ban hammer. Is that feeling due to the fact that others didn't receive near enough punishment? Probably.


I'm sure a lot of people would be happy to nationalize their assets, but they're an international company and that's just not going to happen.

So if BP were to "go out of business" other oil companies would scoop up their assets and a few people who probably had nothing to do with the accident would lose their jobs and the other oil companies would just get bigger.
 
2013-01-31 01:30:22 PM
So, gas will be going up 50 cents a gallon?
 
2013-01-31 01:32:22 PM

Happy Hours: I'm sure a lot of people would be happy to nationalize their assets, but they're an international company and that's just not going to happen.

So if BP were to "go out of business" other oil companies would scoop up their assets and a few people who probably had nothing to do with the accident would lose their jobs and the other oil companies would just get bigger.


Exactly.
 
2013-01-31 01:35:27 PM

max_pooper: their fine should reflect that.


You're pissed. That's fine. But it it was 500 million you'd say it should have been more. And if it was a billion you'd say it should be more. It's five billion and you say it should be more. I don't know the appropriate amount any more than you do but I'm pretty sure there is no amount at which you would say was enough.
 
2013-01-31 01:54:50 PM

Magorn: still since the company has now plead guilty to manslaughter, does that mean they get to add a tattooed tear to the company logo?


In a just world, BP would be "imprisoned" for a number of years, then left to wander in search of anyone who would do business with a "murderer" in a world that has forgotten them during their imprisonment. The same way a real person might be, were they fined $50k for malfeasance and convicted of manslaughter (and served prison time for same).

Or, you know, just forbidden from doing business with state/local governments. Fining them doesn't hurt. Killing their future earnings will.
 
2013-01-31 02:10:56 PM
A small price to pay for nearly destroying the farking Gulf of Mexico.
 
2013-01-31 02:23:42 PM

The Angry Hand of God: So, gas will be going up 50 cents a gallon?


It's already up 35c a gallon where I live.  So, yeah, we're paying this fine on their behalf.
 
2013-01-31 02:45:05 PM

JohnBigBootay: I'd bet real money some of the board members lowly hourly workers are going to have to look at slightly smaller boats this year. Or worse, keep using boats that are like 3-5 years old pay cuts and temporary layoffs.


/Can't hurt the job creators or they'll get angry!
//F*ck the guy working 60 hours a week for 3 months on an oil rig in the middle of the pacific though, he's expendable.
 
2013-01-31 03:02:10 PM

The Angry Hand of God: So, gas will be going up 50 cents a gallon?


DING DING DING!
Step up and claim your prize.

/Can't wait for electric cars to become cheap.
 
2013-01-31 03:06:38 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: The Angry Hand of God: So, gas will be going up 50 cents a gallon?

DING DING DING!
Step up and claim your prize.

/Can't wait for electric cars to become cheap.


please explain how BP was able to accomplish this in such a highly competitive, commoditized price-taking industry?
 
2013-01-31 03:24:09 PM

thomps: Ego edo infantia cattus: The Angry Hand of God: So, gas will be going up 50 cents a gallon?

DING DING DING!
Step up and claim your prize.

/Can't wait for electric cars to become cheap.

please explain how BP was able to accomplish this in such a highly competitive, commoditized price-taking industry?


Other companies can increase prices & profit margin while BP has to pay this extra expense from the price hike.

They dont have to collude, just watch each others market pricing and adjust their own
 
2013-01-31 03:26:16 PM

DORMAMU: thomps: Ego edo infantia cattus: The Angry Hand of God: So, gas will be going up 50 cents a gallon?

DING DING DING!
Step up and claim your prize.

/Can't wait for electric cars to become cheap.

please explain how BP was able to accomplish this in such a highly competitive, commoditized price-taking industry?

Other companies can increase prices & profit margin while BP has to pay this extra expense from the price hike.

They dont have to collude, just watch each others market pricing and adjust their own


without collusion you'd expect the companies with the lower cost-basis to lower prices and steal volume from BP and the others that move with BP.
 
2013-01-31 03:58:01 PM

thomps: DORMAMU: thomps: Ego edo infantia cattus: The Angry Hand of God: So, gas will be going up 50 cents a gallon?

DING DING DING!
Step up and claim your prize.

/Can't wait for electric cars to become cheap.

please explain how BP was able to accomplish this in such a highly competitive, commoditized price-taking industry?

Other companies can increase prices & profit margin while BP has to pay this extra expense from the price hike.

They dont have to collude, just watch each others market pricing and adjust their own

without collusion you'd expect the companies with the lower cost-basis to lower prices and steal volume from BP and the others that move with BP.


Oh, they will, but they'll just undercut them by a couple cents per gallon. PROFIT!
 
2013-01-31 04:04:01 PM

FunkyBlue: thomps: DORMAMU: thomps: Ego edo infantia cattus: The Angry Hand of God: So, gas will be going up 50 cents a gallon?

DING DING DING!
Step up and claim your prize.

/Can't wait for electric cars to become cheap.

please explain how BP was able to accomplish this in such a highly competitive, commoditized price-taking industry?

Other companies can increase prices & profit margin while BP has to pay this extra expense from the price hike.

They dont have to collude, just watch each others market pricing and adjust their own

without collusion you'd expect the companies with the lower cost-basis to lower prices and steal volume from BP and the others that move with BP.

Oh, they will, but they'll just undercut them by a couple cents per gallon. PROFIT!


at which point one of the other non-BP companies will undercut that company by another couple of cents until we're back to the equilibrium margin for every company aside from BP who will be dealing with a lower margin as it absorbs the fines.
 
2013-01-31 04:13:05 PM

The Angry Hand of God: So, gas will be going up 50 cents a gallon?


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-31 04:50:12 PM

thomps: They dont have to collude, just watch each others market pricing and adjust their own

without collusion you'd expect the companies with the lower cost-basis to lower prices and steal volume from BP and the others that move with BP.

Oh, they will, but they'll just undercut them by a couple cents per gallon. PROFIT!

at which point one of the other non-BP companies will undercut that company by another couple of cents until we're back to the equilibrium margin for every company aside from BP who will be dealing with a lower margin as it absorbs the fines.


They do collude, but they can't do it openly and so they don't really speak of it or leave any record of it.  They just see that the other company is raising prices and they follow suit.   And it's all done very gradually, a couple cents at a time.
 
2013-01-31 07:26:34 PM

Marcus Aurelius: That's more than 1% of their annual income.  This is truly a devastating lesson for them.  I wonder if the judge would give me the same draconian punishment for manslaughter charges.


It's 1.3% of their total revenue, 12.5% of their operating income (pre-taxes, etc.), or 20% of their net yearly income.  At least according to the figures from 2011 on wiki.
 
2013-01-31 07:28:25 PM

LrdPhoenix: Marcus Aurelius: That's more than 1% of their annual income.  This is truly a devastating lesson for them.  I wonder if the judge would give me the same draconian punishment for manslaughter charges.

It's 1.3% of their total revenue, 12.5% of their operating income (pre-taxes, etc.), or 20% of their net yearly income.  At least according to the figures from 2011 on wiki.


If I were charged with manslaughter, I would expect to pay more than that in legal fees alone.
 
2013-01-31 08:46:59 PM

Starhawk: The Angry Hand of God: So, gas will be going up 50 cents a gallon?

It's already up 35c a gallon where I live.  So, yeah, we're paying this fine on their behalf.


So much ^This^.

Went from $3.09 to $3.59 here in the Louisville area in less than two weeks.
/Thanks Marathon - MugU-thon
//Thanks Greedway
 
2013-01-31 10:37:35 PM
So where do I line up for my cut?
 
2013-02-01 01:12:49 AM
Yes
And don't let them reduce the fine like they did for Exxon.

No one is going to learn anything if you let the lawyers talk their way out of everything.
 
2013-02-01 09:00:51 AM
We need to invent a death penalty for companies.
 
Displayed 46 of 46 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report