If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Pravda)   Sadistic methods of raising children all the rage in US   (english.pravda.ru) divider line 45
    More: Interesting, United States, perfectly normal space, children's rights, foster children, child psychology, Child and family services  
•       •       •

14578 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jan 2013 at 7:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-01-31 09:36:04 AM
4 votes:

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Dreyelle: In 2007, there were 4,726 children exported from Guatemala to the United States. In 2009, the number reduced to 754, in 2011 - to only 32. Vietnam also banned the "export" of its children. In 2007, U.S. citizens adopted 828 Vietnamese children, in 2010 - 9, in 2011 - 0. Even the Chinese export of children to the U.S. has decreased by 50% over the past five years.

I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.

Your kneejerk racism is unacceptable.


Sadly, adoption *everywhere* is tied strongly to race.

There are all sorts of issues with African Americans in the US- I've adopted multiracial kids and know a lot of other people who have, and it's really a mixed bag on how it goes.  There is resistance from both whites and blacks.

But foreign adoptions are just as bad.  My sister adopted from Guatemala, and it's not an accident that her daughter is primarily Mayan, not Hispanic.  I've known people who've done Peru and Columbia and seen how lighter-skinned children are handled compared to the darker ones.  If you look at the fees associated with international adoption from various countries it becomes instantly obvious the prices are higher the lighter the skin.

Or if you'd rather deal with sex, I know a lot of people with Chinese adoptees.  Interestingly, they are all female- what are the odds?

Protip: adoption is tied very strongly into deeply held beliefs about the worth of various people: race, sex, background, income, family situation, etc, and humanity is truly farked up when it comes to things like that.
2013-01-31 09:06:15 AM
3 votes:

dr.zaeus: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Dreyelle: In 2007, there were 4,726 children exported from Guatemala to the United States. In 2009, the number reduced to 754, in 2011 - to only 32. Vietnam also banned the "export" of its children. In 2007, U.S. citizens adopted 828 Vietnamese children, in 2010 - 9, in 2011 - 0. Even the Chinese export of children to the U.S. has decreased by 50% over the past five years.

I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.  perfect.

I for one am shocked that the predominately white pool of adoptive parents might want to seek out children of their own race.  While most parents will inform the child later in life about their origins, I can't believe that many would want to have a child of a different race because it's easier to keep the lie going into adolescence and pretend that it "could be" their biological child.

Nah, what am I saying?  This is obviously a sign that Americans are racist and hate black kids, right?


I said nothing about RACE.  I used PERFECT.  As in less than 8 weeks old, perfectly healthy, correct eye color, correct hair color, correct genetic markers.

YOU are the one who brought up race.  I'll thank you in advance to not put words down that I did not use.

So who's the racist now?  Hm?
2013-01-31 08:38:35 AM
3 votes:
I know a child who was adopted from Bulgaria. I've heard her story is very similar to Russian adoptions.

When she arrived in the US as a two-year old, she had some serious issues and PTSD from her treatment at the orphanage. It would take me a book to share all the stories and they'll just make me cry so I'll spare you. It took years for her to trust anyone and she will always be developmentally at least 2 years behind all her peers. Her mother went to support groups with other parents who had adopted from Bulgaria and Russia and they all shared similar horror stories and none of them ever discussed any of the methods described (except to mention that many of these "techniques" had been used on their children in the orphanages prior to adoption).

So you'll excuse me if I call hogwash.
2013-01-31 08:30:46 AM
3 votes:

namegoeshere: This is an anti-US adoption propoganda article. Attachment Therapy is horrible, yes, which is why it is illegal in many states and frowned upon by all but a whacked few. And the lady with the hot sauce and cold showers? HATED. Dr Phil (sorry...) even did a series of episodes ripping her a new one.

Yes this shiat happens. No it is not how America parents. Hey Russia? Do you want us taking a close-up look at how Russians parent? Because I'm sure it's not all sunshine and puppies. And take care of your own orphaned children and they wouldn't have to leave the country.


Or not parent, as the case may be.  I've been to orphanages in ex-Soviet countries where the kids are all failed abortions.  And yes, I mean that literally, and yes, they were just as depressing and soul crushing as you might think.  We may have our issues here, but they are nothing when compared to places in the world where the government can literally do whatever it wants and you can be thrown out of a window or just disappeared for questioning.
2013-01-31 08:14:13 AM
3 votes:
Dreyelle:
I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.

This is true. Tho, I have heard that some are scared off b/c in America, there are horror stories of birth parents getting their kids back. In foreign countries, once the kid is adopted, that's it. 

Also, I've looked at lists of kids up for adoption in Texas. They're either large families or have serious disabilities that most people just aren't able to deal with.

/Disclaimer: This is what I've read, so it isn't known as fact to me, just an idea.
2013-01-31 08:09:06 AM
3 votes:
This is an anti-US adoption propoganda article. Attachment Therapy is horrible, yes, which is why it is illegal in many states and frowned upon by all but a whacked few. And the lady with the hot sauce and cold showers? HATED. Dr Phil (sorry...) even did a series of episodes ripping her a new one.

Yes this shiat happens. No it is not how America parents. Hey Russia? Do you want us taking a close-up look at how Russians parent? Because I'm sure it's not all sunshine and puppies. And take care of your own orphaned children and they wouldn't have to leave the country.
2013-01-31 08:07:49 AM
3 votes:
Or maybe whoever handles adoptions in Russia could actually do background checks instead of handing over children to any foreign family that can write a check?
2013-01-31 08:07:28 AM
3 votes:
In 2007, there were 4,726 children exported from Guatemala to the United States. In 2009, the number reduced to 754, in 2011 - to only 32. Vietnam also banned the "export" of its children. In 2007, U.S. citizens adopted 828 Vietnamese children, in 2010 - 9, in 2011 - 0. Even the Chinese export of children to the U.S. has decreased by 50% over the past five years.


I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.
2013-01-31 07:34:11 AM
3 votes:
While I personally think attachment theory is crap because it basically blames the parents (mostly the mother) for everything, that article was off on the coo-coo train.
2013-01-31 10:19:32 AM
2 votes:

Private_Citizen: Whenever the Russian economy is in the toilet, the officials in charge create a new, outrageous strawman to distract the people with.

The current party whipping boy is US parents adopting Russian orphans. Who cares if the new ban on American adoptions leaves thousands of orphans in state run orphanages - the Party now has a safe target for the people's anger: foreigners with no morals.

Hmmm, actually sounds a bit like FOX's MO.


Some the US is so adept at, it's spawned an entire industry of award-winning documentaries. This one's on Google, has three hour long episodes, and is utterly awesome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
2013-01-31 09:36:09 AM
2 votes:

Dreyelle: I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.


I'm going to go out on a limb here & assume you've never tried to adopt a child in the US. Let me just give you a quick rundown of some of the pitfalls Mr. SWAF & I encountered when we looked into it years ago:

- open adoptions where the birth mother can change her mind & regain custody;
- birth *grandparents* who stalk the adoptive family because they're upset their daughter gave "their blood" away;
- adoptions where the birth father (if he finds out years after the fact that he did indeed father a child) can get visitation rights;
- adoptions where one or both birth parents actively look to get their child back (via parental kidnapping) because the courts forcibly terminated their rights & they're p*issed off;
- adoptive kids with such severe physical & psychological problems that at least one prospective adoptive parent would have to quit their job to become a lifelong, 24/7 caregiver;
- adoption agency personnel who actively discourage white couples from adopting non-white babies so the children can "retain their cultural identity";
- exorbitant fees charged by some agencies (most are which are non-refundable even if the adoption doesn't go through);
- the US legal process which takes 2-3x as long as a foreign adoption;
- adoptive kids who can't get access to their own friggin' medical records due to confidentiality laws re: the birth mother.

Godspeed to those couples who decide to go through with it, but It's not hard to see why some people wouldn't.
2013-01-31 09:34:21 AM
2 votes:

Mark Ratner: 50+ posts and I wonder if anyone else watched the linked video in the farking article?

/yes, Pravda is a joke, but the video is not.


Seen it many times. It was a Fark article, IIRC. The thing is, this chickie lost custody of her kids and went to jail. And she's HATED and villified in this country. Death threats. TFA is implying that her behavior is acceptable by US standards, and that any Russian children adopted by US parents will be treated the same. Not true. Yes there are some disgusting, abusive farks in this country, both adoptive and bio. But really, is TFA saying that their own country has none?
2013-01-31 09:26:00 AM
2 votes:
 If Russia and China and other countries really wanted to poke the dynamite monkey
they would close off adoptions to the U.S. for one reason. No guaranteed health care.
The howls of moral confusion from the wing-nuts and religious freaks would be audible in
what's left of Timbuktu.
2013-01-31 08:48:52 AM
2 votes:

Dreyelle: I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.


I agree with your first two sentences.  However, when I was starting the adoption process, the first place my wife and I visited had one of its workers (a black lady) counsel us (white people) on why it was morally abhorrent for us to ever consider adopting a black baby.  And she used "abhorrent" in that southern baptist preacher tone that Obama always slips into whenever he's speaking before an all- or mostly-black audience.

We were instructed that if we couldn't find a white baby (with no uncertainty that any white children would be meth- or crack-babies) that we should adopt a Mexican.

We got out of that place fast--they did not get a return phone call.
2013-01-31 08:19:47 AM
2 votes:

Dreyelle: In 2007, there were 4,726 children exported from Guatemala to the United States. In 2009, the number reduced to 754, in 2011 - to only 32. Vietnam also banned the "export" of its children. In 2007, U.S. citizens adopted 828 Vietnamese children, in 2010 - 9, in 2011 - 0. Even the Chinese export of children to the U.S. has decreased by 50% over the past five years.

I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.  perfect.

2013-01-31 08:07:02 AM
2 votes:
DRTFA, but my first thought after reading the headline was, "authoritarian parenting".
2013-01-31 08:06:59 AM
2 votes:
www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net
2013-01-31 07:57:35 AM
2 votes:
Oh great, a Pravda article. The only "news" source posted on here that's less believable than the Daily Fail.
2013-01-31 06:53:58 PM
1 votes:

dr.zaeus: PsiChick: dr.zaeus: I was talking about the parents ability to handle the issue, really.  I know that kids can adapt, but the benefits of not having to have "that talk" with a kid until later in life (if ever) are probably an attractive thing to consider for a parent.

'No, we don't have the same skin color, because you're adopted. Adopted is a word for when a family is made up of love instead of blood. We're always family and I will always be your mommy\daddy, because I love you, and families are about love.' Answer follow-up questions as needed depending on age.

And that is honestly no more difficult than explaining why the sky is blue.

I wasn't really saying the explanation was hard to come up with in theory or word correctly for a child to understand; any caring parent should be able to communicate sensitively the nature of life's harsh realities. However, you have to admit that it is considerably more difficult emotionally to explain something like this than teaching a kid about the color of the sky.

I could be wrong, but I assume that it's probably an understandable truth of human nature for a lot of parents to want to avoid difficult discussions like this, even when they are between themselves and someone (their child) that they care about greatly.


It's easier to tell a kid from the start, "Hey, guess what?  We're a family of choice not chance.  Yeah, us!  And even better, guess what else?  You get two parties every year.  Every body has birthdays, so what.  You get Happy Homecoming, or Happy Adoption or Glad We Gotcha!  Hooray!"  That's a lot easier than trying to remember the coverup, and who's in the loop and who's not.

 Go Loganville
2013-01-31 05:55:39 PM
1 votes:
Eh, this is Putin propaganda for his dumb 'Americans can't adopt Russian kids' law, which isn't very popular.

Some of it could even be true, but it's a) Pravda, b) Putin. It's like reading an NRA or Al Sharpton press release.
2013-01-31 02:59:26 PM
1 votes:
Both my grandmothers were orphans, but they had very different stories about it.

My paternal grandmother was one of 13 children. Her father worked on oil rigs and was killed at work one day when she was four. Her mother took up with another man (one would assume out of necessity), who didn't want all those children around. The older ones, mostly boys, just took off riding the rails. My grandmother was sent to an Indian family who were family friends. My grandmother loved them and loved living there, she was close enough to still visit with her younger siblings who were still at home. Apparently the state got wind of her placement after a couple of years and took her out of the home because "Indians can't be allowed to raise whites." They put her in an orphanage where she stayed until she was 17 and able to "take care" of herself. She eventually found all but 1 of her siblings, when she was in her late sixties and there were newspaper accounts of the reunion. She always said she loved her Indian caregivers and would have stayed with them if it had been her choice. The orphanage was *not* a fun place to be.

My maternal grandmother was born in Italy and came over at age two with her parents who soon died, she said, of overwork in sweatshops, where she was destined to work, too, once she got old enough. She was immediately placed in an orphanage where she remained her whole childhood. She ended up taking care of thirty or forty younger children and was basically an unpaid matron from about age 10 until she finally left on her own when she was 18. The orphanage was *not* a fun place to be.

So one never had a chance to be adopted and never got to experience a normal home life, the other was adopted, did have loving foster parents, and was taken away from them due to racism, suffering the loss of two sets of parents. Both said that orphanages are no place to grow up.

My parents, after I was born and my mother couldn't have more children, tried to adopt a little boy in Germany when we were stationed there. They tried for over a year. We went to the orphanage weekly, bringing presents and visiting, taking him out for day trips, etc., and they were ultimately turned down by the orphanage because my father couldn't promise we would be staying in Germany for at least five years after the adoption. He wasn't in charge of when and where we would be stationed next. My mother cried for weeks. My childish impression of the orphanage was a nightmare. It was clean, well run, good food (we ate there for that very reason, to check out the food), etc., but the fact that any toy we gave to my prospective little brother was immediately snatched away and played with to destruction by the other kids made it seem like my worse nightmare as an only child.

Putting up any kind of barriers to adoption that don't involve the *actual fitness* of the prospective adoptive parents are stupid because orphanages are not good (they are just better than the streets).
2013-01-31 02:45:32 PM
1 votes:

dr.zaeus: I was talking about the parents ability to handle the issue, really.  I know that kids can adapt, but the benefits of not having to have "that talk" with a kid until later in life (if ever) are probably an attractive thing to consider for a parent.


'No, we don't have the same skin color, because you're adopted. Adopted is a word for when a family is made up of love instead of blood. We're always family and I will always be your mommy\daddy, because I love you, and families are about love.' Answer follow-up questions as needed depending on age.

And that is honestly no more difficult than explaining why the sky is blue.
2013-01-31 11:23:22 AM
1 votes:

The One True TheDavid: Glockenspiel Hero:

I know a lot of people with Chinese adoptees. Interestingly, they are all female- what are the odds?

Oddly enough, sons are so highly valued in Chinese culture that under mainland China's One Child policy girl babies are often unwanted (link),  You'd have a harder time finding a healthy male Chinese baby to adopt.


WHOOOOOSH!
2013-01-31 10:16:00 AM
1 votes:
V Pravde net izvestiy, v Izvestiyakh net pravdy.

/And none of either on Fox
2013-01-31 10:15:45 AM
1 votes:
Whenever the Russian economy is in the toilet, the officials in charge create a new, outrageous strawman to distract the people with.

The current party whipping boy is US parents adopting Russian orphans. Who cares if the new ban on American adoptions leaves thousands of orphans in state run orphanages - the Party now has a safe target for the people's anger: foreigners with no morals.

Hmmm, actually sounds a bit like FOX's MO.
2013-01-31 09:58:20 AM
1 votes:
It's no accident they focused in on a family called the  Leszczynskis.  That's the name of Polish nobility, people that Russians have been conditioned to hate and consider inferior for centuries.   link  It's not something Americans are going to get, but it's like waving a red flag in front of a Russian bull.  Bigley, Cravers, Leszczynski... it's all about foreigners, Poles, Brits & Americans being a threat to Russians.

Of course I know nothing about attachment therapy, and it sounds awful, but Putin wouldn't be making such a big deal out of this if it didn't serve another need.
2013-01-31 09:56:53 AM
1 votes:
StrangeQ:

I've been to orphanages in ex-Soviet countries where the kids are all failed abortions. And yes, I mean that literally

Please elaborate. What method of abortion do they use that fails and what are the effects on the fetus/child?
2013-01-31 09:56:18 AM
1 votes:

Mark Ratner: namegoeshere: Mark Ratner: 50+ posts and I wonder if anyone else watched the linked video in the farking article?

/yes, Pravda is a joke, but the video is not.

Seen it many times. It was a Fark article, IIRC. The thing is, this chickie lost custody of her kids and went to jail. And she's HATED and villified in this country. Death threats. TFA is implying that her behavior is acceptable by US standards, and that any Russian children adopted by US parents will be treated the same. Not true. Yes there are some disgusting, abusive farks in this country, both adoptive and bio. But really, is TFA saying that their own country has none?

I did some googling, and all I could find is that she was found guilty of child abuse and sentenced to three years probation and no info whether or not she lost custody of her kids, so I assume she didn't. (She basically did it as a stunt to get on the Dr. Phil show). I agree with you that the article is joke, though


Huh, I must be remembering wrong about the jail time, but she did lose the kids at least temporarily. But to hold her up as the example of American parenting is... odd.

Also, Dr. Phil - is there anything he can't do fark up?
2013-01-31 09:51:58 AM
1 votes:
Dreyelle:

Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.

That's the current "race problem": 100 years ago Jews weren't "white," 100 years before then Catholic Irish weren't. Now except for the "Close the border!" crowd all that really matters is that you're not black.

In other words, anti-black racism is indeed deeply built into American society.
2013-01-31 09:51:55 AM
1 votes:
The One True TheDavid: [attachment therapy]  The Wikipedia article does make this paricular version sound goofy:

The common form of attachment therapy is holding therapy, in which a child is firmly held (or lain upon) by therapists or parents. Through this process of restraint and confrontation, therapists seek to produce in the child a range of responses such as rage and despair with the goal of achieving catharsis. In theory, when the child's resistance is overcome and the rage is released, the child is reduced to an infantile state in which he or she can be "re-parented" by methods such as cradling, rocking, bottle feeding and enforced eye contact.
WTF?


It's often worse than that. Which is why it is illegal in many places and scorned by all medical and child development professionals who aren't complete whacked idiots. Or Fundies.
2013-01-31 09:50:20 AM
1 votes:
StandsWithAFist:

Godspeed to those couples who decide to go through with it, but It's not hard to see why some people wouldn't.

Yep.  Just buy a kid from a 3rd world country.  Much easier on the adoptive parents, which should obviously be the primary concern.
2013-01-31 09:44:50 AM
1 votes:

Old enough to know better:


Or maybe whoever handles adoptions in Russia could actually do background checks instead of handing over children to any foreign family that can write a check?

But that would be socialism! They had enough of that in the USSR days when Pravda was the Communist Party's paper. (I see from wikipedia it is again, if you can call the current CPRF a communist party.)

TFA says "this 'therapy' is recommended in the United States to suppress the will of foster children and make them attach to their foster parents." Isn't suppressing the will the goal of all current US child-rearing practices?  The Wikipedia article does make this paricular version sound goofy:

The common form of attachment therapy is holding therapy, in which a child is firmly held (or lain upon) by therapists or parents. Through this process of restraint and confrontation, therapists seek to produce in the child a range of responses such as rage and despair with the goal of achieving catharsis. In theory, when the child's resistance is overcome and the rage is released, the child is reduced to an infantile state in which he or she can be "re-parented" by methods such as cradling, rocking, bottle feeding and enforced eye contact.


WTF?
2013-01-31 09:28:10 AM
1 votes:

MNguy: I want a cute little Asian baby, he she would get on splendidly with my labradoodle pup.


FTFY. If you're going with the stereotype, go all the way.
2013-01-31 09:26:29 AM
1 votes:
50+ posts and I wonder if anyone else watched the linked video in the farking article?

/yes, Pravda is a joke, but the video is not.
2013-01-31 09:24:52 AM
1 votes:

davidphogan: This phenomenon has an explanation. It is called the lack-of-attachment syndrome. This diagnosis, along with fetal alcohol syndrome, is attributed in the United States to adopted children, especially to those adopted from Russia.

Am I the only one who read that in a Rocky & Bullwinkle announcer voice?


www.pikabit.net
2013-01-31 09:09:09 AM
1 votes:
2013-01-31 09:07:08 AM
1 votes:
was hospitalized with serious head injuries incompatible with life.

What does that mean? He died?
2013-01-31 08:54:09 AM
1 votes:
This reminds me of the old days when I listened to Radio Moscow. Some of the propaganda was hilarious.
2013-01-31 08:40:50 AM
1 votes:
what the hell is wrong with some people
2013-01-31 08:34:37 AM
1 votes:

eKonk: Sure, blame the good American foster parents who rescued these poor damaged children.  Would you rather they stood in breadlines for days on end like all other Russians?  And be forced to call everyone 'Comrade'? Be given nothing but wodka in their bottles?  Being forced to trudge through miles kilometers of snow, year round, on their way to the salt mines?  Because that's what Russia is, I read it in a definitive news-like article nearly thirty years ago.


You are sorely out of touch with modern Russia.  it is not longer long trudges to salt mines.  From my hours of research, it is now one large game of Frogger where you have to avoid drunken motorists driving their little commie rattle trap cars.  The difficultly is that you are drunk too, even as child.  Because in Russia, everyone is always drunk.  But its okay as royalties from dashcam footage is now Russia's major source of income.  I know this from hours of fantastic YouTube and Break videos.
2013-01-31 08:22:20 AM
1 votes:
... incidents of child abuse entail a punishment of at least three years in prison. However, when it comes to children from Russia, the terms turn to probational ones.

Oh, get over yourselves. You're not special and you're not treated differently.

Buncha whiny white Christians.
2013-01-31 08:13:02 AM
1 votes:

namegoeshere: This is an anti-US adoption propoganda article. Attachment Therapy is horrible, yes, which is why it is illegal in many states and frowned upon by all but a whacked few. And the lady with the hot sauce and cold showers? HATED. Dr Phil (sorry...) even did a series of episodes ripping her a new one.

Yes this shiat happens. No it is not how America parents. Hey Russia? Do you want us taking a close-up look at how Russians parent? Because I'm sure it's not all sunshine and puppies. And take care of your own orphaned children and they wouldn't have to leave the country.


Yes, it's propaganda. It's pushing an agenda. The same thing the American media does.
2013-01-31 07:58:49 AM
1 votes:
Link appears to be farked. But considering its Pravda, I'm sure its a fair, reasonable, and accurate look at how things really are in the US.
2013-01-31 07:27:03 AM
1 votes:
I blame the Republicans!
2013-01-31 03:17:07 AM
1 votes:

davidphogan: Am I the only one who read that in a Rocky & Bullwinkle announcer voice?


Well, I didn't until you said that.
 
Displayed 45 of 45 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report