Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Pravda)   Sadistic methods of raising children all the rage in US   (english.pravda.ru ) divider line
    More: Interesting, United States, perfectly normal space, children's rights, foster children, child psychology, Child and family services  
•       •       •

14604 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jan 2013 at 7:55 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



117 Comments   (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-01-31 01:42:09 AM  
This phenomenon has an explanation. It is called the lack-of-attachment syndrome. This diagnosis, along with fetal alcohol syndrome, is attributed in the United States to adopted children, especially to those adopted from Russia.

Am I the only one who read that in a Rocky & Bullwinkle announcer voice?
 
2013-01-31 03:17:07 AM  

davidphogan: Am I the only one who read that in a Rocky & Bullwinkle announcer voice?


Well, I didn't until you said that.
 
2013-01-31 07:27:03 AM  
I blame the Republicans!
 
2013-01-31 07:34:11 AM  
While I personally think attachment theory is crap because it basically blames the parents (mostly the mother) for everything, that article was off on the coo-coo train.
 
2013-01-31 07:49:17 AM  
I've read lots of parenting books in my 21 years of child raising (I was going to say 'rearing', but I remembered where I was) I don't recall actual torture in any of those books. The worst I can remember is letting a baby cry it out. (That didn't work for me).
 
2013-01-31 07:57:35 AM  
Oh great, a Pravda article. The only "news" source posted on here that's less believable than the Daily Fail.
 
2013-01-31 07:57:55 AM  

Earpj: I've read lots of parenting books in my 21 years of child raising (I was going to say 'rearing', but I remembered where I was) I don't recall actual torture in any of those books. The worst I can remember is letting a baby cry it out. (That didn't work for me).


So they told you not to let your kids watch Barney?

/torture for the adults
 
2013-01-31 07:58:49 AM  
Link appears to be farked. But considering its Pravda, I'm sure its a fair, reasonable, and accurate look at how things really are in the US.
 
2013-01-31 08:01:18 AM  
Happy Hours:
So they told you not to let your kids watch Barney?

/torture for the adults


Gads! The hours of watching Barney! UGH.
Granted, when I was early pregnant with my 2nd, and exhausted 24/7, I could pop in "Barney Live" for my 2 yr old and snooze on the couch for 45 minutes. Only to be roused to rewind it or get her a drink.

/Everything has pros and cons.
 
2013-01-31 08:02:26 AM  

davidphogan: This phenomenon has an explanation. It is called the lack-of-attachment syndrome. This diagnosis, along with fetal alcohol syndrome, is attributed in the United States to adopted children, especially to those adopted from Russia.

Am I the only one who read that in a Rocky & Bullwinkle announcer voice?


Natasha approves this message, comrade
 
2013-01-31 08:03:01 AM  

Earpj: I've read lots of parenting books in my 21 years of child raising (I was going to say 'rearing', but I remembered where I was) I don't recall actual torture in any of those books. The worst I can remember is letting a baby cry it out. (That didn't work for me).



"Crying it out" only really works if they cry out in a few minutes, else it just becomes unpleasant for everyone.

I wonder if this lady had a husband who did these same things to her, if she'd think it unfair.
 
2013-01-31 08:04:18 AM  
Pravda is Truth.

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
 
2013-01-31 08:06:59 AM  
www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net
 
2013-01-31 08:07:02 AM  
DRTFA, but my first thought after reading the headline was, "authoritarian parenting".
 
2013-01-31 08:07:28 AM  
In 2007, there were 4,726 children exported from Guatemala to the United States. In 2009, the number reduced to 754, in 2011 - to only 32. Vietnam also banned the "export" of its children. In 2007, U.S. citizens adopted 828 Vietnamese children, in 2010 - 9, in 2011 - 0. Even the Chinese export of children to the U.S. has decreased by 50% over the past five years.


I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.
 
2013-01-31 08:07:49 AM  
Or maybe whoever handles adoptions in Russia could actually do background checks instead of handing over children to any foreign family that can write a check?
 
2013-01-31 08:09:06 AM  
This is an anti-US adoption propoganda article. Attachment Therapy is horrible, yes, which is why it is illegal in many states and frowned upon by all but a whacked few. And the lady with the hot sauce and cold showers? HATED. Dr Phil (sorry...) even did a series of episodes ripping her a new one.

Yes this shiat happens. No it is not how America parents. Hey Russia? Do you want us taking a close-up look at how Russians parent? Because I'm sure it's not all sunshine and puppies. And take care of your own orphaned children and they wouldn't have to leave the country.
 
2013-01-31 08:12:57 AM  
ftfa "serious head injuries incompatible with life"

Why does this description make me giggle?

/bad, bad me
 
2013-01-31 08:13:02 AM  

namegoeshere: This is an anti-US adoption propoganda article. Attachment Therapy is horrible, yes, which is why it is illegal in many states and frowned upon by all but a whacked few. And the lady with the hot sauce and cold showers? HATED. Dr Phil (sorry...) even did a series of episodes ripping her a new one.

Yes this shiat happens. No it is not how America parents. Hey Russia? Do you want us taking a close-up look at how Russians parent? Because I'm sure it's not all sunshine and puppies. And take care of your own orphaned children and they wouldn't have to leave the country.


Yes, it's propaganda. It's pushing an agenda. The same thing the American media does.
 
2013-01-31 08:14:13 AM  
Dreyelle:
I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.

This is true. Tho, I have heard that some are scared off b/c in America, there are horror stories of birth parents getting their kids back. In foreign countries, once the kid is adopted, that's it. 

Also, I've looked at lists of kids up for adoption in Texas. They're either large families or have serious disabilities that most people just aren't able to deal with.

/Disclaimer: This is what I've read, so it isn't known as fact to me, just an idea.
 
2013-01-31 08:19:28 AM  
Asserting that Attachment Therapy is representative of US parenting is like claiming the "Three Guys One Hammer" maniacs are representative of Russian woodworking.
 
2013-01-31 08:19:47 AM  

Dreyelle: In 2007, there were 4,726 children exported from Guatemala to the United States. In 2009, the number reduced to 754, in 2011 - to only 32. Vietnam also banned the "export" of its children. In 2007, U.S. citizens adopted 828 Vietnamese children, in 2010 - 9, in 2011 - 0. Even the Chinese export of children to the U.S. has decreased by 50% over the past five years.

I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.  perfect.

 
2013-01-31 08:22:20 AM  
... incidents of child abuse entail a punishment of at least three years in prison. However, when it comes to children from Russia, the terms turn to probational ones.

Oh, get over yourselves. You're not special and you're not treated differently.

Buncha whiny white Christians.
 
2013-01-31 08:22:38 AM  
Sure, blame the good American foster parents who rescued these poor damaged children.  Would you rather they stood in breadlines for days on end like all other Russians?  And be forced to call everyone 'Comrade'? Be given nothing but wodka in their bottles?  Being forced to trudge through miles kilometers of snow, year round, on their way to the salt mines?  Because that's what Russia is, I read it in a definitive news-like article nearly thirty years ago.
 
2013-01-31 08:23:29 AM  

badhatharry: Yes, it's propaganda. It's pushing an agenda. The same thing the American media does.


I saw nothing nuttier than what I read here on a regular basis.  Their view of us may be a little less twisted than our own as the world's police.
 
2013-01-31 08:24:11 AM  
Meh, my mom used to take me to K-Mart just so she could beat me.
 
2013-01-31 08:25:23 AM  

mytdawg: badhatharry: Yes, it's propaganda. It's pushing an agenda. The same thing the American media does.

I saw nothing nuttier than what I read here in our news sources on a regular basis.  Their view of us may be a little less twisted than our own as the world's police.


Didn't mean "here" so much but it qualifies.
 
2013-01-31 08:27:58 AM  
FTA: serious head injuries incompatible with life

I see someone already pointed it out, but it bears repeating:

[snort!]
 
2013-01-31 08:30:46 AM  

namegoeshere: This is an anti-US adoption propoganda article. Attachment Therapy is horrible, yes, which is why it is illegal in many states and frowned upon by all but a whacked few. And the lady with the hot sauce and cold showers? HATED. Dr Phil (sorry...) even did a series of episodes ripping her a new one.

Yes this shiat happens. No it is not how America parents. Hey Russia? Do you want us taking a close-up look at how Russians parent? Because I'm sure it's not all sunshine and puppies. And take care of your own orphaned children and they wouldn't have to leave the country.


Or not parent, as the case may be.  I've been to orphanages in ex-Soviet countries where the kids are all failed abortions.  And yes, I mean that literally, and yes, they were just as depressing and soul crushing as you might think.  We may have our issues here, but they are nothing when compared to places in the world where the government can literally do whatever it wants and you can be thrown out of a window or just disappeared for questioning.
 
2013-01-31 08:34:37 AM  

eKonk: Sure, blame the good American foster parents who rescued these poor damaged children.  Would you rather they stood in breadlines for days on end like all other Russians?  And be forced to call everyone 'Comrade'? Be given nothing but wodka in their bottles?  Being forced to trudge through miles kilometers of snow, year round, on their way to the salt mines?  Because that's what Russia is, I read it in a definitive news-like article nearly thirty years ago.


You are sorely out of touch with modern Russia.  it is not longer long trudges to salt mines.  From my hours of research, it is now one large game of Frogger where you have to avoid drunken motorists driving their little commie rattle trap cars.  The difficultly is that you are drunk too, even as child.  Because in Russia, everyone is always drunk.  But its okay as royalties from dashcam footage is now Russia's major source of income.  I know this from hours of fantastic YouTube and Break videos.
 
2013-01-31 08:35:06 AM  

Old enough to know better: Link appears to be farked. But considering its Pravda, I'm sure its a fair, reasonable, and accurate look at how things really are in the US.


No extrapolation based on isolated incidents.  No siree!
 
2013-01-31 08:35:24 AM  
We need to toughen these kids up for the civil war raging in Michigan.
 
2013-01-31 08:35:31 AM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Dreyelle: In 2007, there were 4,726 children exported from Guatemala to the United States. In 2009, the number reduced to 754, in 2011 - to only 32. Vietnam also banned the "export" of its children. In 2007, U.S. citizens adopted 828 Vietnamese children, in 2010 - 9, in 2011 - 0. Even the Chinese export of children to the U.S. has decreased by 50% over the past five years.

I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.  perfect.


I for one am shocked that the predominately white pool of adoptive parents might want to seek out children of their own race.  While most parents will inform the child later in life about their origins, I can't believe that many would want to have a child of a different race because it's easier to keep the lie going into adolescence and pretend that it "could be" their biological child.

Nah, what am I saying?  This is obviously a sign that Americans are racist and hate black kids, right?
 
2013-01-31 08:38:35 AM  
I know a child who was adopted from Bulgaria. I've heard her story is very similar to Russian adoptions.

When she arrived in the US as a two-year old, she had some serious issues and PTSD from her treatment at the orphanage. It would take me a book to share all the stories and they'll just make me cry so I'll spare you. It took years for her to trust anyone and she will always be developmentally at least 2 years behind all her peers. Her mother went to support groups with other parents who had adopted from Bulgaria and Russia and they all shared similar horror stories and none of them ever discussed any of the methods described (except to mention that many of these "techniques" had been used on their children in the orphanages prior to adoption).

So you'll excuse me if I call hogwash.
 
2013-01-31 08:40:26 AM  

Gwendolyn: While I personally think attachment theory is crap because it basically blames the parents (mostly the mother) for everything, that article was off on the coo-coo train.


Yeah, attachment theory is do stupid, what with their lame-brain idea that you can mess up your kids by being a bad parent.
 
2013-01-31 08:40:50 AM  
what the hell is wrong with some people
 
2013-01-31 08:45:48 AM  

Son of Thunder: Gwendolyn: While I personally think attachment theory is crap because it basically blames the parents (mostly the mother) for everything, that article was off on the coo-coo train.

Yeah, attachment theory is do stupid, what with their lame-brain idea that you can mess up your kids by being a bad parent.


And apparently I do stupid, what with my inability to type simple words.

(And for them what care, TFA's "attachment therapy" is representative of attachment theory in the same way that Korean-War-era brainwashing is representative of cognitive behavioral therapy)
 
2013-01-31 08:46:02 AM  
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
"Adop me, muthafuka."
 
2013-01-31 08:48:52 AM  

Dreyelle: I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.


I agree with your first two sentences.  However, when I was starting the adoption process, the first place my wife and I visited had one of its workers (a black lady) counsel us (white people) on why it was morally abhorrent for us to ever consider adopting a black baby.  And she used "abhorrent" in that southern baptist preacher tone that Obama always slips into whenever he's speaking before an all- or mostly-black audience.

We were instructed that if we couldn't find a white baby (with no uncertainty that any white children would be meth- or crack-babies) that we should adopt a Mexican.

We got out of that place fast--they did not get a return phone call.
 
2013-01-31 08:54:09 AM  
This reminds me of the old days when I listened to Radio Moscow. Some of the propaganda was hilarious.
 
2013-01-31 09:00:08 AM  
I want a cute little Asian baby, he would get on splendidly with my labradoodle pup.
 
2013-01-31 09:05:11 AM  
Wow, look at all that pravda.
 
2013-01-31 09:06:15 AM  

dr.zaeus: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Dreyelle: In 2007, there were 4,726 children exported from Guatemala to the United States. In 2009, the number reduced to 754, in 2011 - to only 32. Vietnam also banned the "export" of its children. In 2007, U.S. citizens adopted 828 Vietnamese children, in 2010 - 9, in 2011 - 0. Even the Chinese export of children to the U.S. has decreased by 50% over the past five years.

I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.  perfect.

I for one am shocked that the predominately white pool of adoptive parents might want to seek out children of their own race.  While most parents will inform the child later in life about their origins, I can't believe that many would want to have a child of a different race because it's easier to keep the lie going into adolescence and pretend that it "could be" their biological child.

Nah, what am I saying?  This is obviously a sign that Americans are racist and hate black kids, right?


I said nothing about RACE.  I used PERFECT.  As in less than 8 weeks old, perfectly healthy, correct eye color, correct hair color, correct genetic markers.

YOU are the one who brought up race.  I'll thank you in advance to not put words down that I did not use.

So who's the racist now?  Hm?
 
2013-01-31 09:07:08 AM  
was hospitalized with serious head injuries incompatible with life.

What does that mean? He died?
 
2013-01-31 09:09:09 AM  
 
2013-01-31 09:10:51 AM  

dr.zaeus: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Dreyelle: In 2007, there were 4,726 children exported from Guatemala to the United States. In 2009, the number reduced to 754, in 2011 - to only 32. Vietnam also banned the "export" of its children. In 2007, U.S. citizens adopted 828 Vietnamese children, in 2010 - 9, in 2011 - 0. Even the Chinese export of children to the U.S. has decreased by 50% over the past five years.

I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.  perfect.

I for one am shocked that the predominately white pool of adoptive parents might want to seek out children of their own race.  While most parents will inform the child later in life about their origins, I can't believe that many would want to have a child of a different race because it's easier to keep the lie going into adolescence and pretend that it "could be" their biological child.

Nah, what am I saying?  This is obviously a sign that Americans are racist and hate black kids, right?


Because when I think "white kids", I think of the Guatemalans, Chinese, and Vietnamese!

/derp
 
2013-01-31 09:11:39 AM  
Russian kids I can understand abusing. The communism and Stalinesque ideals run deep, and the only known method of purifying their souls with capitalism and democracy is torture.
 
Xai
2013-01-31 09:13:15 AM  

Target Builder: Meanwhile in Russia


so they are bad so it is ok that we are not quite as bad?

Great logic you have there.
 
2013-01-31 09:16:49 AM  
Since when is Pravda filled with anti-American propaganda?
 
2013-01-31 09:17:15 AM  
Seriously, wtfamireading.jpg

I've heard of a few idiots practicing 'Attachment Therapy' but anyone else with a functioning brain knows it's quackery at best and child abuse at worst. Acting like this is the rule rather than the exception is probably the most disingenuous and yellow 'journalism' I've seen since reefer madness.
 
2013-01-31 09:21:54 AM  

Dreyelle: In 2007, there were 4,726 children exported from Guatemala to the United States. In 2009, the number reduced to 754, in 2011 - to only 32. Vietnam also banned the "export" of its children. In 2007, U.S. citizens adopted 828 Vietnamese children, in 2010 - 9, in 2011 - 0. Even the Chinese export of children to the U.S. has decreased by 50% over the past five years.

I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.


Your kneejerk racism is unacceptable.
 
2013-01-31 09:24:52 AM  

davidphogan: This phenomenon has an explanation. It is called the lack-of-attachment syndrome. This diagnosis, along with fetal alcohol syndrome, is attributed in the United States to adopted children, especially to those adopted from Russia.

Am I the only one who read that in a Rocky & Bullwinkle announcer voice?


www.pikabit.net
 
2013-01-31 09:26:00 AM  
 If Russia and China and other countries really wanted to poke the dynamite monkey
they would close off adoptions to the U.S. for one reason. No guaranteed health care.
The howls of moral confusion from the wing-nuts and religious freaks would be audible in
what's left of Timbuktu.
 
2013-01-31 09:26:29 AM  
50+ posts and I wonder if anyone else watched the linked video in the farking article?

/yes, Pravda is a joke, but the video is not.
 
2013-01-31 09:26:33 AM  
what some of you think you understand about overseas adoption indicates your IQ's are about the same as the number of teeth left in your pieholes.
 
2013-01-31 09:27:14 AM  
Isn't Pravda like the Russian Onion?
 
2013-01-31 09:28:10 AM  

MNguy: I want a cute little Asian baby, he she would get on splendidly with my labradoodle pup.


FTFY. If you're going with the stereotype, go all the way.
 
2013-01-31 09:30:45 AM  

Gwendolyn: While I personally think attachment theory is crap because it basically blames the parents (mostly the mother) for everything, that article was off on the coo-coo train.


 Propaganda.  How does it work?
 
2013-01-31 09:33:45 AM  
Sorry, but reading this in Pravda gives this about as much credence as the story last week (earlier this week?) about the Norks eating their own children. Someone is forwarding their own agenda against members of another country. This time we're just on the receiving end.
 
2013-01-31 09:34:21 AM  

Mark Ratner: 50+ posts and I wonder if anyone else watched the linked video in the farking article?

/yes, Pravda is a joke, but the video is not.


Seen it many times. It was a Fark article, IIRC. The thing is, this chickie lost custody of her kids and went to jail. And she's HATED and villified in this country. Death threats. TFA is implying that her behavior is acceptable by US standards, and that any Russian children adopted by US parents will be treated the same. Not true. Yes there are some disgusting, abusive farks in this country, both adoptive and bio. But really, is TFA saying that their own country has none?
 
2013-01-31 09:36:04 AM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Dreyelle: In 2007, there were 4,726 children exported from Guatemala to the United States. In 2009, the number reduced to 754, in 2011 - to only 32. Vietnam also banned the "export" of its children. In 2007, U.S. citizens adopted 828 Vietnamese children, in 2010 - 9, in 2011 - 0. Even the Chinese export of children to the U.S. has decreased by 50% over the past five years.

I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.

Your kneejerk racism is unacceptable.


Sadly, adoption *everywhere* is tied strongly to race.

There are all sorts of issues with African Americans in the US- I've adopted multiracial kids and know a lot of other people who have, and it's really a mixed bag on how it goes.  There is resistance from both whites and blacks.

But foreign adoptions are just as bad.  My sister adopted from Guatemala, and it's not an accident that her daughter is primarily Mayan, not Hispanic.  I've known people who've done Peru and Columbia and seen how lighter-skinned children are handled compared to the darker ones.  If you look at the fees associated with international adoption from various countries it becomes instantly obvious the prices are higher the lighter the skin.

Or if you'd rather deal with sex, I know a lot of people with Chinese adoptees.  Interestingly, they are all female- what are the odds?

Protip: adoption is tied very strongly into deeply held beliefs about the worth of various people: race, sex, background, income, family situation, etc, and humanity is truly farked up when it comes to things like that.
 
2013-01-31 09:36:09 AM  

Dreyelle: I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.


I'm going to go out on a limb here & assume you've never tried to adopt a child in the US. Let me just give you a quick rundown of some of the pitfalls Mr. SWAF & I encountered when we looked into it years ago:

- open adoptions where the birth mother can change her mind & regain custody;
- birth *grandparents* who stalk the adoptive family because they're upset their daughter gave "their blood" away;
- adoptions where the birth father (if he finds out years after the fact that he did indeed father a child) can get visitation rights;
- adoptions where one or both birth parents actively look to get their child back (via parental kidnapping) because the courts forcibly terminated their rights & they're p*issed off;
- adoptive kids with such severe physical & psychological problems that at least one prospective adoptive parent would have to quit their job to become a lifelong, 24/7 caregiver;
- adoption agency personnel who actively discourage white couples from adopting non-white babies so the children can "retain their cultural identity";
- exorbitant fees charged by some agencies (most are which are non-refundable even if the adoption doesn't go through);
- the US legal process which takes 2-3x as long as a foreign adoption;
- adoptive kids who can't get access to their own friggin' medical records due to confidentiality laws re: the birth mother.

Godspeed to those couples who decide to go through with it, but It's not hard to see why some people wouldn't.
 
2013-01-31 09:36:41 AM  
I have had 27 (american) foster siblings, and I can tell you that these kids have major attachment issues. Some never do attach at all. And yea, sociopathic tendencies are a major issue with all of them (that I have managed to stay in contact with) but I don't understand how causing more trauma would be any more beneficial. Sounds like throwing kerosene on an already bad fire.
 
2013-01-31 09:42:10 AM  

GameSprocket: We need to toughen these kids up for the civil war raging in Michigan.


Please tell me my home state has not degraded THAT far.

/It would not surprise me though.
//Had to leave when the economy tanked but hope to return some day
 
2013-01-31 09:44:50 AM  

Old enough to know better:


Or maybe whoever handles adoptions in Russia could actually do background checks instead of handing over children to any foreign family that can write a check?

But that would be socialism! They had enough of that in the USSR days when Pravda was the Communist Party's paper. (I see from wikipedia it is again, if you can call the current CPRF a communist party.)

TFA says "this 'therapy' is recommended in the United States to suppress the will of foster children and make them attach to their foster parents." Isn't suppressing the will the goal of all current US child-rearing practices?  The Wikipedia article does make this paricular version sound goofy:

The common form of attachment therapy is holding therapy, in which a child is firmly held (or lain upon) by therapists or parents. Through this process of restraint and confrontation, therapists seek to produce in the child a range of responses such as rage and despair with the goal of achieving catharsis. In theory, when the child's resistance is overcome and the rage is released, the child is reduced to an infantile state in which he or she can be "re-parented" by methods such as cradling, rocking, bottle feeding and enforced eye contact.


WTF?
 
2013-01-31 09:50:20 AM  
StandsWithAFist:

Godspeed to those couples who decide to go through with it, but It's not hard to see why some people wouldn't.

Yep.  Just buy a kid from a 3rd world country.  Much easier on the adoptive parents, which should obviously be the primary concern.
 
2013-01-31 09:51:55 AM  
The One True TheDavid: [attachment therapy]  The Wikipedia article does make this paricular version sound goofy:

The common form of attachment therapy is holding therapy, in which a child is firmly held (or lain upon) by therapists or parents. Through this process of restraint and confrontation, therapists seek to produce in the child a range of responses such as rage and despair with the goal of achieving catharsis. In theory, when the child's resistance is overcome and the rage is released, the child is reduced to an infantile state in which he or she can be "re-parented" by methods such as cradling, rocking, bottle feeding and enforced eye contact.
WTF?


It's often worse than that. Which is why it is illegal in many places and scorned by all medical and child development professionals who aren't complete whacked idiots. Or Fundies.
 
2013-01-31 09:51:58 AM  
Dreyelle:

Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.

That's the current "race problem": 100 years ago Jews weren't "white," 100 years before then Catholic Irish weren't. Now except for the "Close the border!" crowd all that really matters is that you're not black.

In other words, anti-black racism is indeed deeply built into American society.
 
2013-01-31 09:52:43 AM  

namegoeshere: Mark Ratner: 50+ posts and I wonder if anyone else watched the linked video in the farking article?

/yes, Pravda is a joke, but the video is not.

Seen it many times. It was a Fark article, IIRC. The thing is, this chickie lost custody of her kids and went to jail. And she's HATED and villified in this country. Death threats. TFA is implying that her behavior is acceptable by US standards, and that any Russian children adopted by US parents will be treated the same. Not true. Yes there are some disgusting, abusive farks in this country, both adoptive and bio. But really, is TFA saying that their own country has none?


I did some googling, and all I could find is that she was found guilty of child abuse and sentenced to three years probation and no info whether or not she lost custody of her kids, so I assume she didn't. (She basically did it as a stunt to get on the Dr. Phil show). I agree with you that the article is joke, though
 
2013-01-31 09:54:02 AM  

Dreyelle: I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.


Plenty? Yes. Available? Not really. The US adoption laws were past with the best intentions, but they're so broken and farked up that it can take years to be cleared to adopt a child, and they haven't even shown themselves to be particularly reliable for their stated purpose: weeding out abusers. They've been kept in place out of the (again, well-meaning) idea that they're better than nothing, but to be honest, I'm not so sure that the current implementation is better than nothing.

As for your poorly-concealed cry of racism, the situation is actually considerably more complex. Interracial adoption is a controversial topic in the US, where it was once used as a tool of what we would now call genocide (specifically, forced adoption of the children of native peoples). That potential has tainted discussion of the subject ever since.

The only argument that pro-interracial-adoption folks have is simple pathos: that there are children who need to be loved and would-be parents who want to love children, and vast imbalances in numbers between them when it comes to race, and shouldn't that be enough reason to set race aside and get these kids into homes? But there are many, many people who don't find that convincing. Resistance comes from both sides of just about every spectrum imaginable: both black and white, yes, but also otherwise-opposing schools of thought in sociology, psychology, economics, politics, and many others.
 
2013-01-31 09:56:18 AM  

Mark Ratner: namegoeshere: Mark Ratner: 50+ posts and I wonder if anyone else watched the linked video in the farking article?

/yes, Pravda is a joke, but the video is not.

Seen it many times. It was a Fark article, IIRC. The thing is, this chickie lost custody of her kids and went to jail. And she's HATED and villified in this country. Death threats. TFA is implying that her behavior is acceptable by US standards, and that any Russian children adopted by US parents will be treated the same. Not true. Yes there are some disgusting, abusive farks in this country, both adoptive and bio. But really, is TFA saying that their own country has none?

I did some googling, and all I could find is that she was found guilty of child abuse and sentenced to three years probation and no info whether or not she lost custody of her kids, so I assume she didn't. (She basically did it as a stunt to get on the Dr. Phil show). I agree with you that the article is joke, though


Huh, I must be remembering wrong about the jail time, but she did lose the kids at least temporarily. But to hold her up as the example of American parenting is... odd.

Also, Dr. Phil - is there anything he can't do fark up?
 
2013-01-31 09:56:53 AM  
StrangeQ:

I've been to orphanages in ex-Soviet countries where the kids are all failed abortions. And yes, I mean that literally

Please elaborate. What method of abortion do they use that fails and what are the effects on the fetus/child?
 
2013-01-31 09:58:19 AM  

The One True TheDavid: StrangeQ:

I've been to orphanages in ex-Soviet countries where the kids are all failed abortions. And yes, I mean that literally

Please elaborate. What method of abortion do they use that fails and what are the effects on the fetus/child?


Not going to google, not going to google, not going to google...
 
2013-01-31 09:58:20 AM  
It's no accident they focused in on a family called the  Leszczynskis.  That's the name of Polish nobility, people that Russians have been conditioned to hate and consider inferior for centuries.   link  It's not something Americans are going to get, but it's like waving a red flag in front of a Russian bull.  Bigley, Cravers, Leszczynski... it's all about foreigners, Poles, Brits & Americans being a threat to Russians.

Of course I know nothing about attachment therapy, and it sounds awful, but Putin wouldn't be making such a big deal out of this if it didn't serve another need.
 
2013-01-31 10:05:32 AM  
Alternate Pravda Headlines

Experts Agree:  America Sucks, Russia Rules
Glorious Putin Travels Back in Time, Wins Cold War
Russian Pizza is World's Greatest Pizza
 
2013-01-31 10:06:32 AM  
dr.zaeus:

While most parents will inform the child later in life about their origins, I can't believe that many would want to have a child of a different race because it's easier to keep the lie going into adolescence and pretend that it "could be" their biological child.

Why would people do that? Why does it matter so much?

I can imagine a kid feeling more special being chosen from a pool of dozens than just happening to pop out because Mommy can't count.
 
2013-01-31 10:15:45 AM  
Whenever the Russian economy is in the toilet, the officials in charge create a new, outrageous strawman to distract the people with.

The current party whipping boy is US parents adopting Russian orphans. Who cares if the new ban on American adoptions leaves thousands of orphans in state run orphanages - the Party now has a safe target for the people's anger: foreigners with no morals.

Hmmm, actually sounds a bit like FOX's MO.
 
2013-01-31 10:16:00 AM  
V Pravde net izvestiy, v Izvestiyakh net pravdy.

/And none of either on Fox
 
2013-01-31 10:18:59 AM  

The One True TheDavid: dr.zaeus:

While most parents will inform the child later in life about their origins, I can't believe that many would want to have a child of a different race because it's easier to keep the lie going into adolescence and pretend that it "could be" their biological child.

Why would people do that? Why does it matter so much?

I can imagine a kid feeling more special being chosen from a pool of dozens than just happening to pop out because Mommy can't count.


It's easy enough to imagine, but instinct doesn't work that way: it says that attachment means biological connection. Overcoming that is something even many adults have trouble with: asking a kid to do it is just too much.
 
2013-01-31 10:19:32 AM  

Private_Citizen: Whenever the Russian economy is in the toilet, the officials in charge create a new, outrageous strawman to distract the people with.

The current party whipping boy is US parents adopting Russian orphans. Who cares if the new ban on American adoptions leaves thousands of orphans in state run orphanages - the Party now has a safe target for the people's anger: foreigners with no morals.

Hmmm, actually sounds a bit like FOX's MO.


Some the US is so adept at, it's spawned an entire industry of award-winning documentaries. This one's on Google, has three hour long episodes, and is utterly awesome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
 
2013-01-31 10:21:32 AM  
If it was one of your previously unknown kids who had been adopted out without your knowledge, I'll bet many of you would be mighty thankful for all the safeguards built in then (especially you military farkers).
 
2013-01-31 10:34:11 AM  
"Jessica Bigley became famous overnight not only in her state of Alaska, but also far beyond its borders."

Could the reporter see Jessica Bigley from his/her back yard?

Good to see that Pravda has returned to it's Soviet propaganda roots.
 
2013-01-31 10:34:33 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Oh great, a Pravda article. The only "news" source posted on here that's less believable than the Daily Fail.


But Pravda means Truth in Russian!! They can't possibly lie with a name like that!!
 
2013-01-31 10:35:10 AM  
Glockenspiel Hero:

I know a lot of people with Chinese adoptees. Interestingly, they are all female- what are the odds?

Oddly enough, sons are so highly valued in Chinese culture that under mainland China's One Child policy girl babies are often unwanted (link),  You'd have a harder time finding a healthy male Chinese baby to adopt.
 
2013-01-31 10:57:55 AM  
They are not all redheaded stepchildren.
 
2013-01-31 11:04:08 AM  

BillCo: I blame the Republicans!


Well actually, you most likely can. Cretins who come up with this sort of junk-science sadism tend to be on the gop side of the fence.
 
2013-01-31 11:10:03 AM  

Millennium: The One True TheDavid: dr.zaeus:

While most parents will inform the child later in life about their origins, I can't believe that many would want to have a child of a different race because it's easier to keep the lie going into adolescence and pretend that it "could be" their biological child.

Why would people do that? Why does it matter so much?

I can imagine a kid feeling more special being chosen from a pool of dozens than just happening to pop out because Mommy can't count.

It's easy enough to imagine, but instinct doesn't work that way: it says that attachment means biological connection. Overcoming that is something even many adults have trouble with: asking a kid to do it is just too much.


Uh-huh. Like an infant who's too young to even hold her head up cares what color her skin is.

Instinct says any baby will cry, poop and suck. Once a kid is walking and knows she's in an orphanage, e.g., she can be taught that the color of somebody's skin is not a big deal.

There are some innate characteristics of form, function and temperament. Racism is none of the above, and has to be taught early and often in order to form a large and significant part of the personality.
 
2013-01-31 11:23:22 AM  

The One True TheDavid: Glockenspiel Hero:

I know a lot of people with Chinese adoptees. Interestingly, they are all female- what are the odds?

Oddly enough, sons are so highly valued in Chinese culture that under mainland China's One Child policy girl babies are often unwanted (link),  You'd have a harder time finding a healthy male Chinese baby to adopt.


WHOOOOOSH!
 
2013-01-31 11:38:19 AM  

The One True TheDavid: Millennium: The One True TheDavid: dr.zaeus:

While most parents will inform the child later in life about their origins, I can't believe that many would want to have a child of a different race because it's easier to keep the lie going into adolescence and pretend that it "could be" their biological child.

Why would people do that? Why does it matter so much?

I can imagine a kid feeling more special being chosen from a pool of dozens than just happening to pop out because Mommy can't count.

It's easy enough to imagine, but instinct doesn't work that way: it says that attachment means biological connection. Overcoming that is something even many adults have trouble with: asking a kid to do it is just too much.

Uh-huh. Like an infant who's too young to even hold her head up cares what color her skin is.

Instinct says any baby will cry, poop and suck. Once a kid is walking and knows she's in an orphanage, e.g., she can be taught that the color of somebody's skin is not a big deal.

There are some innate characteristics of form, function and temperament. Racism is none of the above, and has to be taught early and often in order to form a large and significant part of the personality.


I was talking about the parents ability to handle the issue, really.  I know that kids can adapt, but the benefits of not having to have "that talk" with a kid until later in life (if ever) are probably an attractive thing to consider for a parent.
 
2013-01-31 11:41:09 AM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: dr.zaeus: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Dreyelle: In 2007, there were 4,726 children exported from Guatemala to the United States. In 2009, the number reduced to 754, in 2011 - to only 32. Vietnam also banned the "export" of its children. In 2007, U.S. citizens adopted 828 Vietnamese children, in 2010 - 9, in 2011 - 0. Even the Chinese export of children to the U.S. has decreased by 50% over the past five years.

I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.  perfect.

I for one am shocked that the predominately white pool of adoptive parents might want to seek out children of their own race.  While most parents will inform the child later in life about their origins, I can't believe that many would want to have a child of a different race because it's easier to keep the lie going into adolescence and pretend that it "could be" their biological child.

Nah, what am I saying?  This is obviously a sign that Americans are racist and hate black kids, right?

I said nothing about RACE.  I used PERFECT.  As in less than 8 weeks old, perfectly healthy, correct eye color, correct hair color, correct genetic markers.

YOU are the one who brought up race.  I'll thank you in advance to not put words down that I did not use.

So who's the racist now?  Hm?


Lighten up, and please unscrew those panties for a second.  I accidentally used your post with the redaction and "perfect" edit instead of the original one, which blatantly mentioned race.

Living life on a hair trigger like this, ready to throw a rod at any perceived slight, is going to lead to an early grave.
 
2013-01-31 11:59:18 AM  

Earpj: Happy Hours:
So they told you not to let your kids watch Barney?

/torture for the adults

Gads! The hours of watching Barney! UGH.
Granted, when I was early pregnant with my 2nd, and exhausted 24/7, I could pop in "Barney Live" for my 2 yr old and snooze on the couch for 45 minutes. Only to be roused to rewind it or get her a drink.

/Everything has pros and cons.


One word: Caillou.
 
2013-01-31 12:02:23 PM  

dr.zaeus: Satan's Bunny Slippers: dr.zaeus: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Dreyelle: In 2007, there were 4,726 children exported from Guatemala to the United States. In 2009, the number reduced to 754, in 2011 - to only 32. Vietnam also banned the "export" of its children. In 2007, U.S. citizens adopted 828 Vietnamese children, in 2010 - 9, in 2011 - 0. Even the Chinese export of children to the U.S. has decreased by 50% over the past five years.

I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.  perfect.

I for one am shocked that the predominately white pool of adoptive parents might want to seek out children of their own race.  While most parents will inform the child later in life about their origins, I can't believe that many would want to have a child of a different race because it's easier to keep the lie going into adolescence and pretend that it "could be" their biological child.

Nah, what am I saying?  This is obviously a sign that Americans are racist and hate black kids, right?

I said nothing about RACE.  I used PERFECT.  As in less than 8 weeks old, perfectly healthy, correct eye color, correct hair color, correct genetic markers.

YOU are the one who brought up race.  I'll thank you in advance to not put words down that I did not use.

So who's the racist now?  Hm?

Lighten up, and please unscrew those panties for a second.  I accidentally used your post with the redaction and "perfect" edit instead of the original one, which blatantly mentioned race.

Living life on a hair trigger like this, ready to throw a rod at any perceived slight, is going to lead to an early grave.



Ah, I see.

Sorry then.  Carry on.  My bad.
 
2013-01-31 12:11:09 PM  

Earpj: I've read lots of parenting books in my 21 years of child raising (I was going to say 'rearing', but I remembered where I was) I don't recall actual torture in any of those books. The worst I can remember is letting a baby cry it out. (That didn't work for me).


I'm not finding it now, but there was a TED talk that referenced the belief that you could 'train' babies by not giving them attention and letting them cry.  Studies show that not only does it not work, it's actually harmful to their development.

Turns out that they're not at a stage where they can learn via conditioning or positive/negative reinforcement.  The thing that will be most likely to make them stop crying (assuming it's not due to hunger, gas pains, etc), is to present them with something familiar - like a parent holding them.  This also helps them learn how to understand human interaction and develop a sense of empathy, as compared to the ignored child, who may eventually be mentally or emotionally stunted!
 
2013-01-31 12:13:49 PM  
Can someone link me to the infamous "Civil war in Michigan" Pravda story? Cause I really want to read it now.
 
2013-01-31 12:17:33 PM  
I've said it before, but I hate uncertainty.  So for me, adopting a kid with known issues is much better, than having a perfectly normal or average child that gets into a terrible accident and becomes much different.  I feel awful when I read about some family, full of life and great expectations being reduced to grieving the loss of dreams and hopeful futures.

I'm just weird that way.  Tell me not to get my hopes up, give me the little wretch, and let's see what miracles develop.  It's not easy, but local adoption really works for me, versus the uncertainty of international adoption.
 
2013-01-31 12:34:03 PM  

megarian: Earpj: Happy Hours:
So they told you not to let your kids watch Barney?

/torture for the adults

Gads! The hours of watching Barney! UGH.
Granted, when I was early pregnant with my 2nd, and exhausted 24/7, I could pop in "Barney Live" for my 2 yr old and snooze on the couch for 45 minutes. Only to be roused to rewind it or get her a drink.

/Everything has pros and cons.

One word: Caillou.


I don't know if it was around yet. Those kids are 21 and, almost, 19.

Moved on to Blue's Clues and Dora with later offspring.
 
2013-01-31 12:34:28 PM  

dr.zaeus: The One True TheDavid:

[...]

There are some innate characteristics of form, function and temperament. Racism is none of the above, and has to be taught early and often in order to form a large and significant part of the personality.

I was talking about the parents ability to handle the issue, really.  I know that kids can adapt, but the benefits of not having to have "that talk" with a kid until later in life (if ever) are probably an attractive thing to consider for a parent.


Should people so racist and cowardly be allowed to rear kids?

How would they handle other important discussions, like "Your Changing Body" and "No Means NO?"

Of course racism works in several ways concerning this stuff. One is black-on-black: the idea that it's better for a black kid to grow to 18 in an orphanage than to be "raised white."

(We wouldn't have this problem if aborted fetuses were an expensive medicinal delicacy and if parents were still allowed to sell unwanted kids as slaves.)

 
2013-01-31 12:38:26 PM  
dr.zaeus:

Living life on a hair trigger like this, ready to throw a rod at any perceived slight, is going to lead to an early grave.

So they say, but I ain't been so lucky yet.
 
2013-01-31 12:45:27 PM  
i always come to fark for my child rearing advice, maybe that was their problem? also for dating and invest tips

don't spank your children, that's child abuse

if your son wants to play with barbies, encourage him and helicopter him for safety if his friends are afraid of him

dang this is hard, i'm just gunna let TV/Internet raise em, problem solved

i'll just send them here, be sure you guys take good care of them, kthanx bai
 
2013-01-31 12:47:19 PM  

BillCo: I blame the Republicans!


vote democrat
 
2013-01-31 01:11:42 PM  

StandsWithAFist: Dreyelle: I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.

I'm going to go out on a limb here & assume you've never tried to adopt a child in the US. Let me just give you a quick rundown of some of the pitfalls Mr. SWAF & I encountered when we looked into it years ago:

- open adoptions where the birth mother can change her mind & regain custody;
- birth *grandparents* who stalk the adoptive family because they're upset their daughter gave "their blood" away;
- adoptions where the birth father (if he finds out years after the fact that he did indeed father a child) can get visitation rights;
- adoptions where one or both birth parents actively look to get their child back (via parental kidnapping) because the courts forcibly terminated their rights & they're p*issed off;
- adoptive kids with such severe physical & psychological problems that at least one prospective adoptive parent would have to quit their job to become a lifelong, 24/7 caregiver;
- adoption agency personnel who actively discourage white couples from adopting non-white babies so the children can "retain their cultural identity";
- exorbitant fees charged by some agencies (most are which are non-refundable even if the adoption doesn't go through);
- the US legal process which takes 2-3x as long as a foreign adoption;
- adoptive kids who can't get access to their own friggin' medical records due to confidentiality laws re: the birth mother.

Godspeed to those couples who decide to go through with it, but It's not hard to see why some people wouldn't.


This, this THIS.

My wife and I looked into it as well, as we had enough money for IVF or adoption, but not both.  We went the IVF route and that worked.  Otherwise, we were looking at going to Russia as they had young kids with relatively low issues.  The risks and pitfalls of domestic adoption were just too great, both were about the same cost and process time (this was 2 years ago).

/all children from orphanages have issues, the older they are the more ingrained they are and the longer it takes them to bond with you
//this stupid crap the people in TFA pulled is not how you do that
 
2013-01-31 01:15:20 PM  

rolladuck: Dreyelle: I'm good with this. Would-be parents in the US should look for children in the US. There are plenty available. Oh wait, I forgot, they aren't all non-black.

I agree with your first two sentences.  However, when I was starting the adoption process, the first place my wife and I visited had one of its workers (a black lady) counsel us (white people) on why it was morally abhorrent for us to ever consider adopting a black baby.  And she used "abhorrent" in that southern baptist preacher tone that Obama always slips into whenever he's speaking before an all- or mostly-black audience.

We were instructed that if we couldn't find a white baby (with no uncertainty that any white children would be meth- or crack-babies) that we should adopt a Mexican.

We got out of that place fast--they did not get a return phone call.


A friend of mine had to fight it out in court to adopt their son as the state said a black child should not be adopted by a white family.
 
2013-01-31 02:35:56 PM  
I'm sorry I'm so late in this thread but I still have to say that any adoptive parent who waits until the teen years or later is an idiot. Let the child know that he/she was chosen as soon as they can.
 
2013-01-31 02:45:32 PM  

dr.zaeus: I was talking about the parents ability to handle the issue, really.  I know that kids can adapt, but the benefits of not having to have "that talk" with a kid until later in life (if ever) are probably an attractive thing to consider for a parent.


'No, we don't have the same skin color, because you're adopted. Adopted is a word for when a family is made up of love instead of blood. We're always family and I will always be your mommy\daddy, because I love you, and families are about love.' Answer follow-up questions as needed depending on age.

And that is honestly no more difficult than explaining why the sky is blue.
 
2013-01-31 02:59:26 PM  
Both my grandmothers were orphans, but they had very different stories about it.

My paternal grandmother was one of 13 children. Her father worked on oil rigs and was killed at work one day when she was four. Her mother took up with another man (one would assume out of necessity), who didn't want all those children around. The older ones, mostly boys, just took off riding the rails. My grandmother was sent to an Indian family who were family friends. My grandmother loved them and loved living there, she was close enough to still visit with her younger siblings who were still at home. Apparently the state got wind of her placement after a couple of years and took her out of the home because "Indians can't be allowed to raise whites." They put her in an orphanage where she stayed until she was 17 and able to "take care" of herself. She eventually found all but 1 of her siblings, when she was in her late sixties and there were newspaper accounts of the reunion. She always said she loved her Indian caregivers and would have stayed with them if it had been her choice. The orphanage was *not* a fun place to be.

My maternal grandmother was born in Italy and came over at age two with her parents who soon died, she said, of overwork in sweatshops, where she was destined to work, too, once she got old enough. She was immediately placed in an orphanage where she remained her whole childhood. She ended up taking care of thirty or forty younger children and was basically an unpaid matron from about age 10 until she finally left on her own when she was 18. The orphanage was *not* a fun place to be.

So one never had a chance to be adopted and never got to experience a normal home life, the other was adopted, did have loving foster parents, and was taken away from them due to racism, suffering the loss of two sets of parents. Both said that orphanages are no place to grow up.

My parents, after I was born and my mother couldn't have more children, tried to adopt a little boy in Germany when we were stationed there. They tried for over a year. We went to the orphanage weekly, bringing presents and visiting, taking him out for day trips, etc., and they were ultimately turned down by the orphanage because my father couldn't promise we would be staying in Germany for at least five years after the adoption. He wasn't in charge of when and where we would be stationed next. My mother cried for weeks. My childish impression of the orphanage was a nightmare. It was clean, well run, good food (we ate there for that very reason, to check out the food), etc., but the fact that any toy we gave to my prospective little brother was immediately snatched away and played with to destruction by the other kids made it seem like my worse nightmare as an only child.

Putting up any kind of barriers to adoption that don't involve the *actual fitness* of the prospective adoptive parents are stupid because orphanages are not good (they are just better than the streets).
 
2013-01-31 03:04:14 PM  

PsiChick: dr.zaeus: I was talking about the parents ability to handle the issue, really.  I know that kids can adapt, but the benefits of not having to have "that talk" with a kid until later in life (if ever) are probably an attractive thing to consider for a parent.

'No, we don't have the same skin color, because you're adopted. Adopted is a word for when a family is made up of love instead of blood. We're always family and I will always be your mommy\daddy, because I love you, and families are about love.' Answer follow-up questions as needed depending on age.

And that is honestly no more difficult than explaining why the sky is blue.


I wasn't really saying the explanation was hard to come up with in theory or word correctly for a child to understand; any caring parent should be able to communicate sensitively the nature of life's harsh realities. However, you have to admit that it is considerably more difficult emotionally to explain something like this than teaching a kid about the color of the sky.

I could be wrong, but I assume that it's probably an understandable truth of human nature for a lot of parents to want to avoid difficult discussions like this, even when they are between themselves and someone (their child) that they care about greatly.
 
2013-01-31 03:12:18 PM  

perigee: [encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 225x225]
"Adop me, muthafuka."


I will love him and hold him and stroke him and squeeze him and call him George.
 
2013-01-31 03:16:12 PM  

dr.zaeus: PsiChick: dr.zaeus: I was talking about the parents ability to handle the issue, really.  I know that kids can adapt, but the benefits of not having to have "that talk" with a kid until later in life (if ever) are probably an attractive thing to consider for a parent.

'No, we don't have the same skin color, because you're adopted. Adopted is a word for when a family is made up of love instead of blood. We're always family and I will always be your mommy\daddy, because I love you, and families are about love.' Answer follow-up questions as needed depending on age.

And that is honestly no more difficult than explaining why the sky is blue.

I wasn't really saying the explanation was hard to come up with in theory or word correctly for a child to understand; any caring parent should be able to communicate sensitively the nature of life's harsh realities. However, you have to admit that it is considerably more difficult emotionally to explain something like this than teaching a kid about the color of the sky.

I could be wrong, but I assume that it's probably an understandable truth of human nature for a lot of parents to want to avoid difficult discussions like this, even when they are between themselves and someone (their child) that they care about greatly.


I've said this before and I'll say it again: When you're parenting, it's about the kid, not you. It's hard to get up at three AM to cuddle a nightmare-having toddler, too, but you put on your big boy\girl pants and do it, because  that's what you signed up for. It does  far more harm to the kid to suddenly find out at eighteen that they're adopted--or, worse, for them to figure it out--than for the kid to grow up knowing that they're adopted and it's not a big deal.
 
2013-01-31 03:28:48 PM  

dr.zaeus: PsiChick: dr.zaeus: I was talking about the parents ability to handle the issue, really.  I know that kids can adapt, but the benefits of not having to have "that talk" with a kid until later in life (if ever) are probably an attractive thing to consider for a parent.

'No, we don't have the same skin color, because you're adopted. Adopted is a word for when a family is made up of love instead of blood. We're always family and I will always be your mommy\daddy, because I love you, and families are about love.' Answer follow-up questions as needed depending on age.

And that is honestly no more difficult than explaining why the sky is blue.

I wasn't really saying the explanation was hard to come up with in theory or word correctly for a child to understand; any caring parent should be able to communicate sensitively the nature of life's harsh realities. However, you have to admit that it is considerably more difficult emotionally to explain something like this than teaching a kid about the color of the sky.

I could be wrong, but I assume that it's probably an understandable truth of human nature for a lot of parents to want to avoid difficult discussions like this, even when they are between themselves and someone (their child) that they care about greatly.


Ok, I'll be the one to tell you that you're wrong.  The discussion isn't hard at all- you need to be honest with them from day 1.  My kids both have pictures of their birthmothers in their rooms.  They understand they were adopted, and they know some of the details of the process (the ones that are appropriate for their ages)

The key is that they don't see it as abnormal.  Yes, they are adopted.  Yes, they don't look like us.  But families everywhere aren't "normal".  One of their cousins is Guatemalan.  The family two down from us adopted two kids from family services.  My younger son plays with a kid who has two mommies, and got called to the principal's office today for fighting with one being raised by his grandparents.

It was a lot more awkward having the "birds and bees" talk with the younger a few months back.  He wanted to know if I'd had sex with his birthmommy...
 
2013-01-31 03:45:53 PM  

The One True TheDavid: dr.zaeus: The One True TheDavid:

[...]There are some innate characteristics of form, function and temperament. Racism is none of the above, and has to be taught early and often in order to form a large and significant part of the personality.

I was talking about the parents ability to handle the issue, really.  I know that kids can adapt, but the benefits of not having to have "that talk" with a kid until later in life (if ever) are probably an attractive thing to consider for a parent.

Should people so racist and cowardly be allowed to rear kids?


Not so fun fact: this also works with step-parents. Non-biological children get harsher punishment and less attention (on average) than biological children. Why? because there is less of a connection. Now try substituting the white child with an adopted black child. Not only is there still the lack of biological connection but this time it's even worse because the child and the parent don't even look like they could be related. Sure, in most (?) cases things work out just fine, but considering the information that was just imparted, do you still think it is racist to (subconsciously) prefer a child that looks like you? After all, it's not something based on race per se.

/Cinderella was based on a true story
//Got my bachelors in psychology, can't link to stuff mentioned during lectures
 
2013-01-31 05:55:39 PM  
Eh, this is Putin propaganda for his dumb 'Americans can't adopt Russian kids' law, which isn't very popular.

Some of it could even be true, but it's a) Pravda, b) Putin. It's like reading an NRA or Al Sharpton press release.
 
2013-01-31 06:45:47 PM  
Russian Businessman testifies against Russian mafia, Russian Businessman dies in Russian prison, US addopts (ha ha) Magnitsky Law, Russia discovers that American parents are evil. The Putinists!
 
2013-01-31 06:53:58 PM  

dr.zaeus: PsiChick: dr.zaeus: I was talking about the parents ability to handle the issue, really.  I know that kids can adapt, but the benefits of not having to have "that talk" with a kid until later in life (if ever) are probably an attractive thing to consider for a parent.

'No, we don't have the same skin color, because you're adopted. Adopted is a word for when a family is made up of love instead of blood. We're always family and I will always be your mommy\daddy, because I love you, and families are about love.' Answer follow-up questions as needed depending on age.

And that is honestly no more difficult than explaining why the sky is blue.

I wasn't really saying the explanation was hard to come up with in theory or word correctly for a child to understand; any caring parent should be able to communicate sensitively the nature of life's harsh realities. However, you have to admit that it is considerably more difficult emotionally to explain something like this than teaching a kid about the color of the sky.

I could be wrong, but I assume that it's probably an understandable truth of human nature for a lot of parents to want to avoid difficult discussions like this, even when they are between themselves and someone (their child) that they care about greatly.


It's easier to tell a kid from the start, "Hey, guess what?  We're a family of choice not chance.  Yeah, us!  And even better, guess what else?  You get two parties every year.  Every body has birthdays, so what.  You get Happy Homecoming, or Happy Adoption or Glad We Gotcha!  Hooray!"  That's a lot easier than trying to remember the coverup, and who's in the loop and who's not.

 Go Loganville
 
2013-01-31 08:57:29 PM  
Pravda
 
2013-01-31 10:49:23 PM  
Well, for one, the Pravda in question (as someone noted) is pretty much the Russian version of, oh, The Onion or the Weekly World News.

That said, there's a whole mess of issues with international adoption, and on BOTH sides:

a) International adoption, particularly through international "baby mill" agencies, has become a very attractive option to parents who aren't able to adopt in the US--sometimes for legit reasons (a lot of states won't adopt to older families or to same-sex partners), sometimes...because adoption agencies would rule them unfit in the US due to severe disciplinary practices, etc.

b) Almost all of the international "baby mill" groups have engaged in a LOT of skeevy behaviours including:

1) Not disclosing to parents that almost all international adoptions are what would be termed "Wednesday's Child Adoptions" in the US--that is, adoption of special-needs kids who are otherwise unadoptable.  Probably the luckiest one gets with this is China (where female babies are considered essentially "Wednesday's Child" adoptions due to not being as preferred as male babies)--in most other cases, though, it's going to be older kids (who often have socialisation issues of some type or another) or severe disabilities (usually intellectual and/or psychiatric disabilities, sometimes physical disabilities too, FAS is especially common in the ex-Warsaw Pact).

2) Often being caught in adopting out children who had living parents whose custodial rights had NOT been terminated (and taking advantage of the fact that in many developing countries children can be turned over to an orphanage temporarily as a rough equivalent of the foster-care system that exists in the US and having often-illiterate parents unknowingly signing over custody to an orphanage in a language they don't speak--and that's assuming babies and children aren't stolen outright from the streets, which has happened to fuel the international baby mill industry).  Guatemala actually got its entire international adoption program shut down over a major case of just this happening (and this has resulted in a major international custody crisis potentially involving thousands of kids adopted out from Guatemala dating from the 70s onward), Vietnam and Cambodia and Ethiopia are shutting down their international adoption programs over cases of kids being illicitly "adopted out" without parental rights being properly terminated, and there have even been incidents in China of babies and children being literally stolen and/or sold to international baby mills.

3) It has actually been insinuated in some cases that ethnic minorities have been targeted in some cases--partly because they don't speak the primary language of the country whose adoption laws are being used, but (and again, this comes up particularly with the Guatemalan and Ethiopian "baby mill" situations); in some cases it's also been alleged these groups have been targeted by the governments of these countries as a sort of ethnic cleansing.  (The best evidence of the latter would be with the Guatemalan and Ethiopian baby-mill situations; almost all reports of illicit adoptions of Guatemalans have concerned kids of Mayan and other indigenous descent (who have been targeted for genocide in Guatemala in VERY recent history), and almost all the Ethiopian baby-mills have targeted ethnic minorities in Ethiopia who have been discriminated against in past by the Ethiopian government.)

Incidentially--almost identical abuses used to occur here in the US and Canada regarding women who were forced to give up custody if they gave birth in "maternity homes", kids being raised in poor conditions (and the sickly ones or the dark ones being outright killed off), kids in First Nations communities being outright adopted out to white families in order to "civilise" them.  In fact, the practice was so common up to the 60s that it earned a name--"baby farming".  It's specifically all those abuses that have directly led to stuff like parents being able to retain some custodial and/or visitation rights, long grace periods for turning over custody to the state or adoptive parents, restrictions in some cases on cross-cultural adoption (more notable with First Nations adoptions, because adopting out NDN kids WAS pretty explicitly done as a form of ethnic cleansing), etc.  It's also why the baby mills now pretty much either operate overseas (almost inevitably as "Christian adoption agencies" at that) or in the form of private "Christian adoption agencies" in the US who pretty much still do the "forced turnover of custody in the maternal home" stuff (using "pregnancy counseling centers" as the major intake for maternity homes nowadays) and refuse to adopt to anyone who isn't a full-blown dominionist (right down to interviews with ministers and agreements to explicitly exclusionary statements of faith that effectively ban conservative Catholics from adopting).
 
2013-02-01 01:47:22 AM  
Pravda - lozh, da v ney namjok.
 
2013-02-01 08:01:33 AM  

Glockenspiel Hero: dr.zaeus: PsiChick: dr.zaeus: I was talking about the parents ability to handle the issue, really.  I know that kids can adapt, but the benefits of not having to have "that talk" with a kid until later in life (if ever) are probably an attractive thing to consider for a parent.

'No, we don't have the same skin color, because you're adopted. Adopted is a word for when a family is made up of love instead of blood. We're always family and I will always be your mommy\daddy, because I love you, and families are about love.' Answer follow-up questions as needed depending on age.

And that is honestly no more difficult than explaining why the sky is blue.

I wasn't really saying the explanation was hard to come up with in theory or word correctly for a child to understand; any caring parent should be able to communicate sensitively the nature of life's harsh realities. However, you have to admit that it is considerably more difficult emotionally to explain something like this than teaching a kid about the color of the sky.

I could be wrong, but I assume that it's probably an understandable truth of human nature for a lot of parents to want to avoid difficult discussions like this, even when they are between themselves and someone (their child) that they care about greatly.

Ok, I'll be the one to tell you that you're wrong.  The discussion isn't hard at all- you need to be honest with them from day 1.  My kids both have pictures of their birthmothers in their rooms.  They understand they were adopted, and they know some of the details of the process (the ones that are appropriate for their ages)

The key is that they don't see it as abnormal.  Yes, they are adopted.  Yes, they don't look like us.  But families everywhere aren't "normal".  One of their cousins is Guatemalan.  The family two down from us adopted two kids from family services.  My younger son plays with a kid who has two mommies, and got called to the principal's office today for fighting with one being rai ...


C'mon everyone.  I'm obviously not saying that this is right, I'm just positing that it's probably common.  No judgment from me about the need to be honest with kids, it's a no-brainer that you would want to handle this kind of stuff early in a child's life.
 
Displayed 117 of 117 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report