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(Want China Times)   China missile test sinks simulated US aircraft carrier, although the photo clearly shows they need 3 more red pegs   (wantchinatimes.com) divider line 30
    More: Interesting, missile test  
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14138 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jan 2013 at 7:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-01-31 07:48:17 AM
4 votes:
If only Navy Carriers stood still on dry land.

Not, say, sail at 30+knots surrounded by cruisers and destroyed with capability to down theater ballistics missiles.
2013-01-31 07:46:13 AM
4 votes:
Did those farking idiots just call the Navy dogs and our country a doghouse? They do realize if they hit a carrier it's game on right?
2013-01-31 08:01:40 AM
3 votes:
China won't ever directly attack us, we owe them way too much money. Should it come to a shooting war, not only would China get it's ass kicked by our superior military, they wouldn't see a dime of that money paid back.
2013-01-31 08:58:49 AM
2 votes:

Father_Jack: you really think the US would respond with nuclear weapons against cities if it lost carriers?

i find this difficult to believe.


No, if America has learned anything from Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it's that the world respects disproportionate civilian casualties.
2013-01-31 08:10:59 AM
2 votes:
I guess if we ever decide to park one of our carriers in the Gobi, we'll really be in trouble.

Meanwhile, these things are actually going 30 knots out in the middle of the ocean surrounded by half a dozen ships all with anti-missile countermeasures.
2013-01-31 07:56:07 AM
2 votes:
Hmmm, they sink one of our carriers,we irradiate most of their major cities. Sounds like a fair trade to me.


Your cunning plan. You haven't thought it through.
2013-01-31 07:52:35 AM
2 votes:
With the current administration pushing massive defense spending cuts (by way of refusing to make the cuts in entitlements), America will soon lose its ranking as the largest, most powerful military in the world.  We'll fall second to China, then third to India, and soon we'll be pillow fighting with the rest of the pre-teens at the bottom-of-the-list-sleepover.  We won't be sending forces to help quell the Greek riots or any other humanitarian or security missions.  We'll be welcoming Chinese soldiers to our gulf coasts and other disaster prone areas.  How does that make you feel?

How does the thought of a Chinese soldier laying his bayonet next to your daughter's bed make you feel?
How does the vision of your wife stir frying the household pets for the "visiting" platoon sound?
How does the sound of "OOOOHHHHAAAAAAAA...." beginning the answer to even simple questions make you feel?
How does that ping pong paddle feel in your hands as your forced to compete for rations?

Probably makes you a little sick, doesn't it?  Well, you could always join the American Armed Forces and do something about it - or, do something about it as a private citizen, while you still have your Second Amendment rights.

Or you could go back to bed and snuggle yourself to sleep in your warm comforter.  Tell me, American slave, was it sewn in the USA?

I didn't think so.
2013-01-31 11:06:23 AM
1 votes:
Did the "simulation" also include "simulated" fleet of surrounding ships who's purpose it is to screen incoming fire from reaching the carrier?
2013-01-31 11:05:06 AM
1 votes:

SuperNinjaToad: pag1107: Mose: 2,000 km range... these are ballistic missiles I take it?

I'd bet they work like the old AIM-54, ballistic boost phase with radar or ir homing unpowered terminal phase.  Either that or they are big, slow cruise missiles that can be intercepted.

actually no... the DF-21 is considered much more effective because it is a ballistic missile no different than an ICBM except it uses conventional warhead instead of nuclear and it tracks moving targets.

Unlike a cruise missile which cruises, the trajectory of the DF-21 is parabolic and comes down from a high altitude with extremely high speed. Very difficult to intercept.

China got really really pissed off when we parked a carrier next to them back in the 1990's and they were ABSOLUTELY powerless to do anything other than complain. They want to make sure that never happens again and this weapon is a good deterrent I guess.


We "park" carriers near them all the time. Like, every couple months there's somebody transiting through international waters that they claim to control, just to make the point that they can't close the sea lanes. Nobody has ever hit a ship with a ballistic missile, and until they do I'll remain skeptical that this is some quantum leap in technology. People forget that Billy Mitchell was WRONG. Strategic bombers didn't make warships obsolete, and neither have missiles.
2013-01-31 10:55:18 AM
1 votes:

maggoo: Thunderpipes: No, I don't think they could. To actually hit one of our carriers would require an enormous effort, and assure that China no longer would have a military shortly afterwards.

This is Fark. People here think China, Russia, Brazil, Canada could somehow kick our asses with magic missiles and supersonic torpedoes and diesel-electric subs. Of course I expect this. You see a picture of a rumored Chinese stealth fighter and all of a sudden the F-15 and F-22 are doomed. The latest Russian tank is encountered in Iraq and the Abrams is doomed. Just never turns out that way.

China probably could damage a carrier if they focused thousands of units against it. It would have to be a surprise attack. Then what? No aircraft, no sub, no surface ship would be able to so much as leave port or take to the air without getting its ass kicked. A hundred million screaming Chinamen on the ground are no use. Nuclear war?

That's some strong wishfull thinking right there.

Meanwhile, reality has this habit of contradicting you. We aren't talking about brazil, canada or any other state. This is China we are talking about, and wether you like it or not they are the world's super power now, and they are actually preparing for an inevitable confrontation with a belligerent US, desperate to retake its former relevance.

And your criticism of non-cutting-edge tech only shows how completely ignorant of history you are. Go read on how the soviet union managed to defeat nazi germany, with all its cutting-edge tech, with what essentially amounted to wave after wave of cannon fodder, armed with machine guns assembled in basements and tanks which weren't much more than mass produced crude farm tractors with some armor, a gun on top and a stick to drive them. If push comes to shove, China has 1 billion people and a population grown problem they want to tackle. So, there's that.

In addition, care to tell me how the US managed to fight a war with a vastly out-teched military, such as ...


China's defense budget is less than one-tenth of the U.S. defense budget. China's GDP is less than 1/2 of the U.S. GDP, with four times the population to support. China is sitting on a real estate bubble that's going to make the U.S. 2008 financial collapse look like a Sunday School picnic. The purpose of China's military isn't to confront the U.S., anyway, it's to intimidate its smaller neighbors, all of whom are beefing up their militaries. Combined, the militaries of Japan, South Korea, Indonesia, Vietnam, India, etc. are superior to the Chinese military, without even considering the U.S.

Also, you have no idea what you're talking about in regard to military history. The Soviet Union's tech was equal or superior to the equivalent German stuff (T-38 > Pzkw IV), just simpler to produce and less polished. The North Vietnamese didn't defeat the U.S. Army; they defeated the South Vietnamese army two years after we left. The Viet Cong were basically wiped out in the Tet Offensive. We "lost" the Vietnam war because we decided it was against our national interest to continue fighting it, not because our military was incapable of continuing to control the southern part of the country indefinitely.

Oh, and assuming you could put a billion troops in the field armed with pitchforks or whatever, and march them toward a border, most of them would die of thirst, hunger and disease within a week or two.
2013-01-31 09:21:56 AM
1 votes:

WegianWarrior: Can't point to all the sources, but information gleamed from a couple of dozen articles over the last year or so:

- Maneuverable warheads (nuke or HE, it really don't matter to much) comes down at high hypersonic speeds (Mach 10-15)
- Initial target data from satellites, active radar guidance in the warhead
- Time from initial target acquisition to impact around 20 minutes, meaning the vessels can at best move 20-30 km - well within the maneuvering capabilities of the warhead
- Persistent rumors of a MIRVed missile
- Even if the CIWS manages to hit the approaching warhead the wreckage will still hit the flight deck - at the very least putting the carrier out of commission until the wreckage of all the planes parked there is cleaned up.

Would it be a wise move of China to start taking potshots on US carriers? Not really - but since a DF-21D is a fair bit cheaper than a carrier, it's a good trade from their point of view IF it gets to be a shooting war.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Ballistic_Missile_Defense_System   BOOM
2013-01-31 09:02:52 AM
1 votes:
been created by China's DF-21D anti-ship missile, dubbed the "carrier killer."

aircraft carriers are weird, they don't really have a lot of in-site defenses, it's almost like they need support ships or airplanes or something that can defend them. we outta equip our aircraft carriers with anti-missile defenses of some kind.
2013-01-31 09:01:06 AM
1 votes:
A few thousand relatively cheap missiles disable our carrier groups. Waste

Now you are getting so far out of the realm of reasonableness that it is silly.

What nation/organization is going to have thousands of these missiles with the ability to send them to all of our carrier groups?

Yes, a dozen or 24 of these things might put a dent in one carrier group. Yes, that would be relatively cheap when thinking of the cost of that carrier group.

That's a pretty specific and overall incomplete picture.
2013-01-31 08:48:03 AM
1 votes:
"the nationalistic Chinese tabloid Global Times stated that the weapon was only designed for self-defense"

I always love the self-defense line when describing weapons.  Who does that actually placate anyway?  It's a long range self-defense guided rocket with lots of self-defense explosives on it.  We're gunna self-defense you till you die from it.
2013-01-31 08:47:53 AM
1 votes:
If they have something that can get past a Phalanx CIWS, then they deserve to down a U.S. aircraft carrier.
2013-01-31 08:44:59 AM
1 votes:
Aside from their powerplants and the shape of their decks, Navy carrier design hasn't really changed since 1945. They're all basically built the same way the USS Midway was, which means they're actually designed to survive an impressive amount of battle damage.
2013-01-31 08:44:26 AM
1 votes:

bulldg4life: Baryogenesis: Honestly, a swarm of missiles seem like an effective and relatively cheap counter to an expensive surface fleet.  If 90% of incoming missiles are shot down, how many missiles do you need to fire at a carrier (group) to knock it out?  Is it more than 4.5 billion dollars worth (construction cost of a Nimitz class according to wiki) of missiles?

You probably only need to hit with a couple missiles. Of course, attempting to sink a US carrier group can't be good for the health of your populace.


Yup. If even one missile hits, China's population will drop from "India" to "Indiana" within 24 hours.
2013-01-31 08:38:18 AM
1 votes:
Came here to say I love spentmiles.  no  homo.
2013-01-31 08:20:56 AM
1 votes:

Meethos: One of the best things on FARK is seeing all the indignation at the painfully obvious, yet very humorous satirical posts by  spentmiles

Now watch the people who got caught by him vanish from the thread.


I wouldn't call them particularly humorous.  Mildly amusing, at best.  However, seeing those that respond to him is truly amusing.
2013-01-31 08:15:59 AM
1 votes:
spentmiles:

1.) How does the thought of a Chinese soldier laying his bayonet next to your daughter's bed make you feel?
2.) How does the vision of your wife stir frying the household pets for the "visiting" platoon sound?
3.) How does the sound of "OOOOHHHHAAAAAAAA...." beginning the answer to even simple questions make you feel?
4.) How does that ping pong paddle feel in your hands as your forced to compete for rations?


1.) Less discomforting than the thought of an American military-state police doing the same, because that's a more likely scenario. While being the average Chinese citizen sucks more than being the average American citizen, the Chinese mind their own damn business. We're the ones sending troops all over the world on fools' errands.
2.) Delicious actually. Idiot beagle eats better than me.
3.) Sounds motivational
4.) Probably the same as having to play badminton for rations, because I suck at both. I'd probably starve.

The Chinese have defensive weapons, not offense. We have a military with enough funding to invade and hold most countries around the world - hell it only took us 1 month to decimate the world's former 4th largest army.

It's OUR leaders who've spent us into the ground on fruitless unconstitutional wars, demanded warrant free access to our e-mails, indefinite detention of American citizens, created the LARGEST police/prison population in the world, are seeking to revoke more of our 2nd amendment rights, and who are starting to turn our fancy weapons of war towards us. Why sweat a Chinese invasion, when Obama's got 20,000 drones flying over our heads?

In the end, the only power the Chinese have over us is some laughable pieces of paper we've been shoveling to them for their hard labor and raw materials. Paper promises we'll probably soon hyper-inflate away.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Surprisingly, many people think its about foreign invasion. Great and powerful nations don't get conquered overnight. They rot from the inside out long before that happens.
2013-01-31 08:15:49 AM
1 votes:

Baryogenesis: Honestly, a swarm of missiles seem like an effective and relatively cheap counter to an expensive surface fleet.  If 90% of incoming missiles are shot down, how many missiles do you need to fire at a carrier (group) to knock it out?  Is it more than 4.5 billion dollars worth (construction cost of a Nimitz class according to wiki) of missiles?


You probably only need to hit with a couple missiles. Of course, attempting to sink a US carrier group can't be good for the health of your populace.
2013-01-31 08:05:13 AM
1 votes:

spentmiles: With the current administration pushing massive defense spending cuts (by way of refusing to make the cuts in entitlements), America will soon lose its ranking as the largest, most powerful military in the world.  We'll fall second to China, then third to India, and soon we'll be pillow fighting with the rest of the pre-teens at the bottom-of-the-list-sleepover.  We won't be sending forces to help quell the Greek riots or any other humanitarian or security missions.  We'll be welcoming Chinese soldiers to our gulf coasts and other disaster prone areas.  How does that make you feel?

How does the thought of a Chinese soldier laying his bayonet next to your daughter's bed make you feel?
How does the vision of your wife stir frying the household pets for the "visiting" platoon sound?
How does the sound of "OOOOHHHHAAAAAAAA...." beginning the answer to even simple questions make you feel?
How does that ping pong paddle feel in your hands as your forced to compete for rations?

Probably makes you a little sick, doesn't it?  Well, you could always join the American Armed Forces and do something about it - or, do something about it as a private citizen, while you still have your Second Amendment rights.

Or you could go back to bed and snuggle yourself to sleep in your warm comforter.  Tell me, American slave, was it sewn in the USA?

I didn't think so.



That's right...you did not think.
www.pgpf.org  Link
2013-01-31 08:00:18 AM
1 votes:

spentmiles: With the current administration pushing massive defense spending cuts (by way of refusing to make the cuts in entitlements), America will soon lose its ranking as the largest, most powerful military in the world.  We'll fall second to China, then third to India, and soon we'll be pillow fighting with the rest of the pre-teens at the bottom-of-the-list-sleepover.  We won't be sending forces to help quell the Greek riots or any other humanitarian or security missions.  We'll be welcoming Chinese soldiers to our gulf coasts and other disaster prone areas.  How does that make you feel?

How does the thought of a Chinese soldier laying his bayonet next to your daughter's bed make you feel?
How does the vision of your wife stir frying the household pets for the "visiting" platoon sound?
How does the sound of "OOOOHHHHAAAAAAAA...." beginning the answer to even simple questions make you feel?
How does that ping pong paddle feel in your hands as your forced to compete for rations?

Probably makes you a little sick, doesn't it?  Well, you could always join the American Armed Forces and do something about it - or, do something about it as a private citizen, while you still have your Second Amendment rights.

Or you could go back to bed and snuggle yourself to sleep in your warm comforter.  Tell me, American slave, was it sewn in the USA?

I didn't think so.


Awesome.  Having a ping pong table as a kid will finally pay off.
2013-01-31 07:56:34 AM
1 votes:

spentmiles: Probably makes you a little sick, doesn't it?


This post? Yes.

4/10 for appeal to emotion and baked-in derpitude.
2013-01-31 07:56:32 AM
1 votes:

spentmiles: With the current administration pushing massive defense spending cuts (by way of refusing to make the cuts in entitlements), America will soon lose its ranking as the largest, most powerful military in the world.  We'll fall second to China, then third to India, and soon we'll be pillow fighting with the rest of the pre-teens at the bottom-of-the-list-sleepover.  We won't be sending forces to help quell the Greek riots or any other humanitarian or security missions.  We'll be welcoming Chinese soldiers to our gulf coasts and other disaster prone areas.  How does that make you feel?

How does the thought of a Chinese soldier laying his bayonet next to your daughter's bed make you feel?
How does the vision of your wife stir frying the household pets for the "visiting" platoon sound?
How does the sound of "OOOOHHHHAAAAAAAA...." beginning the answer to even simple questions make you feel?
How does that ping pong paddle feel in your hands as your forced to compete for rations?

Probably makes you a little sick, doesn't it?  Well, you could always join the American Armed Forces and do something about it - or, do something about it as a private citizen, while you still have your Second Amendment rights.

Or you could go back to bed and snuggle yourself to sleep in your warm comforter.  Tell me, American slave, was it sewn in the USA?

I didn't think so.


i123.photobucket.com
2013-01-31 07:55:17 AM
1 votes:
Yawn.  BTDT, World War 2.  CV-6

www.cv6.org
This was on 10/26/42.  On November 13, she participated in Guadalcanal.
2013-01-31 07:50:51 AM
1 votes:

Evil Twin Skippy: If only Navy Carriers stood still on dry land.

Not, say, sail at 30+knots surrounded by cruisers and destroyed with capability to down theater ballistics missiles.



So this seems more along the lines of a first strike "defensive" weapon? Like if we decided to park a carrier group in or near Taiwan?
xcv
2013-01-31 07:49:44 AM
1 votes:

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: Did those farking idiots just call the Navy dogs and our country a doghouse?


I think they're saying they want to eat our seamen as a delicacy.
2013-01-31 07:37:49 AM
1 votes:
Well, I guess if your propaganda blog says so.....
2013-01-31 07:25:24 AM
1 votes:
I blame the Republicans!
 
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