Father_Jack: you really think the US would respond with nuclear weapons against cities if it lost carriers?i find this difficult to believe.
SuperNinjaToad: pag1107: Mose: 2,000 km range... these are ballistic missiles I take it?I'd bet they work like the old AIM-54, ballistic boost phase with radar or ir homing unpowered terminal phase. Either that or they are big, slow cruise missiles that can be intercepted.actually no... the DF-21 is considered much more effective because it is a ballistic missile no different than an ICBM except it uses conventional warhead instead of nuclear and it tracks moving targets.Unlike a cruise missile which cruises, the trajectory of the DF-21 is parabolic and comes down from a high altitude with extremely high speed. Very difficult to intercept.China got really really pissed off when we parked a carrier next to them back in the 1990's and they were ABSOLUTELY powerless to do anything other than complain. They want to make sure that never happens again and this weapon is a good deterrent I guess.
maggoo: Thunderpipes: No, I don't think they could. To actually hit one of our carriers would require an enormous effort, and assure that China no longer would have a military shortly afterwards.This is Fark. People here think China, Russia, Brazil, Canada could somehow kick our asses with magic missiles and supersonic torpedoes and diesel-electric subs. Of course I expect this. You see a picture of a rumored Chinese stealth fighter and all of a sudden the F-15 and F-22 are doomed. The latest Russian tank is encountered in Iraq and the Abrams is doomed. Just never turns out that way.China probably could damage a carrier if they focused thousands of units against it. It would have to be a surprise attack. Then what? No aircraft, no sub, no surface ship would be able to so much as leave port or take to the air without getting its ass kicked. A hundred million screaming Chinamen on the ground are no use. Nuclear war?That's some strong wishfull thinking right there.Meanwhile, reality has this habit of contradicting you. We aren't talking about brazil, canada or any other state. This is China we are talking about, and wether you like it or not they are the world's super power now, and they are actually preparing for an inevitable confrontation with a belligerent US, desperate to retake its former relevance.And your criticism of non-cutting-edge tech only shows how completely ignorant of history you are. Go read on how the soviet union managed to defeat nazi germany, with all its cutting-edge tech, with what essentially amounted to wave after wave of cannon fodder, armed with machine guns assembled in basements and tanks which weren't much more than mass produced crude farm tractors with some armor, a gun on top and a stick to drive them. If push comes to shove, China has 1 billion people and a population grown problem they want to tackle. So, there's that.In addition, care to tell me how the US managed to fight a war with a vastly out-teched military, such as ...
WegianWarrior: Can't point to all the sources, but information gleamed from a couple of dozen articles over the last year or so:- Maneuverable warheads (nuke or HE, it really don't matter to much) comes down at high hypersonic speeds (Mach 10-15)- Initial target data from satellites, active radar guidance in the warhead- Time from initial target acquisition to impact around 20 minutes, meaning the vessels can at best move 20-30 km - well within the maneuvering capabilities of the warhead- Persistent rumors of a MIRVed missile- Even if the CIWS manages to hit the approaching warhead the wreckage will still hit the flight deck - at the very least putting the carrier out of commission until the wreckage of all the planes parked there is cleaned up.Would it be a wise move of China to start taking potshots on US carriers? Not really - but since a DF-21D is a fair bit cheaper than a carrier, it's a good trade from their point of view IF it gets to be a shooting war.
bulldg4life: Baryogenesis: Honestly, a swarm of missiles seem like an effective and relatively cheap counter to an expensive surface fleet. If 90% of incoming missiles are shot down, how many missiles do you need to fire at a carrier (group) to knock it out? Is it more than 4.5 billion dollars worth (construction cost of a Nimitz class according to wiki) of missiles?You probably only need to hit with a couple missiles. Of course, attempting to sink a US carrier group can't be good for the health of your populace.
Meethos: One of the best things on FARK is seeing all the indignation at the painfully obvious, yet very humorous satirical posts by spentmilesNow watch the people who got caught by him vanish from the thread.
Baryogenesis: Honestly, a swarm of missiles seem like an effective and relatively cheap counter to an expensive surface fleet. If 90% of incoming missiles are shot down, how many missiles do you need to fire at a carrier (group) to knock it out? Is it more than 4.5 billion dollars worth (construction cost of a Nimitz class according to wiki) of missiles?
spentmiles: With the current administration pushing massive defense spending cuts (by way of refusing to make the cuts in entitlements), America will soon lose its ranking as the largest, most powerful military in the world. We'll fall second to China, then third to India, and soon we'll be pillow fighting with the rest of the pre-teens at the bottom-of-the-list-sleepover. We won't be sending forces to help quell the Greek riots or any other humanitarian or security missions. We'll be welcoming Chinese soldiers to our gulf coasts and other disaster prone areas. How does that make you feel?How does the thought of a Chinese soldier laying his bayonet next to your daughter's bed make you feel?How does the vision of your wife stir frying the household pets for the "visiting" platoon sound?How does the sound of "OOOOHHHHAAAAAAAA...." beginning the answer to even simple questions make you feel?How does that ping pong paddle feel in your hands as your forced to compete for rations?Probably makes you a little sick, doesn't it? Well, you could always join the American Armed Forces and do something about it - or, do something about it as a private citizen, while you still have your Second Amendment rights.Or you could go back to bed and snuggle yourself to sleep in your warm comforter. Tell me, American slave, was it sewn in the USA?I didn't think so.
spentmiles: Probably makes you a little sick, doesn't it?
Evil Twin Skippy: If only Navy Carriers stood still on dry land.Not, say, sail at 30+knots surrounded by cruisers and destroyed with capability to down theater ballistics missiles.
yagottabefarkinkiddinme: Did those farking idiots just call the Navy dogs and our country a doghouse?
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