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(LA Times)   More than ten years after 9/11 and we still can't bring applesauce onto commercial flights   (latimesblogs.latimes.com) divider line 89
    More: Sad, Commercial aviation, TSA, Burbank-Glendale-Pasadena Airport Authority, complaints, United States District Court  
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4800 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2013 at 4:36 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-30 06:08:33 PM

p51d007: As long as the United States is controlled by politically correct IDIOTS, crap like this
will never end.


Because Bush's f*ckups that led to Afghanistan,  Iraq and the PATRIOT Act were because of "politically correct IDIOTS."

You truly have a dizzying intellect.
 
2013-01-30 06:26:05 PM

Kibbler: Seriously, at some point they'll blow up a plane again


Again?
 
2013-01-30 06:29:21 PM
Well duh. If they could sneak on board with several dozen gallons of the right liquid and a whole chemical sets and figure out a way to deal with gases, and given a good 12-14 hours they could make some of the stuff that is required to make part of a bomb, so it only makes sense to ban all liquids no matter how small.
 
2013-01-30 06:31:21 PM

Rich Cream: Kibbler: Seriously, at some point they'll blow up a plane again

Again?


Ah. Lockerbie.
 
2013-01-30 06:47:06 PM
The upside is that terrorists will never infiltrate the TSA as long as it refuses to hire anyone under 275 lbs.
 
2013-01-30 06:51:09 PM

highendmighty: And how many more 9/11's have there been since the ban?
OK then.


How many 9/11s were there before 9/11?
 
2013-01-30 07:00:14 PM
The paranoia in the USA is playing right into the terrorists' hands.
 I thought we were fighting FOR freedom, not restricting it.
 
2013-01-30 07:04:02 PM

highendmighty: And how many more 9/11's have there been since the ban?
OK then.


The logical fallacy is strong with this one.
 
2013-01-30 07:05:02 PM

wambu: highendmighty: And how many more 9/11's have there been since the ban?
OK then.

How many 9/11s were there before 9/11?


And I shall remain, in some cases unintentionally, straightman to the universe - unabashed, unapologetic :)
 
2013-01-30 07:07:15 PM

The Only Sane Man In Florida: highendmighty: And how many more 9/11's have there been since the ban?
OK then.

The logical fallacy is strong with this one.



www.lotustalk.com

/for your sarcasm detector.  I think it needs one.
 
2013-01-30 07:08:59 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-30 07:11:35 PM

QueenMamaBee: / Nah, better yank me out of line for the Spanish Inquisition because I have large canisters and am darker than a cafe latte.


If you have large cans, I'd imagine you get a lots of requests to pose in the Naked Passenger Photo Booth. Ya know, to prevent terrorism and all.
 
2013-01-30 07:15:43 PM
Is this how you would treat something you believed to pose a bomb threat, by tossing it in a plastic trash can from Home depot next to a crowd of people?

i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-30 07:19:20 PM

generallyso: Is this how you would treat something you believed to pose a bomb threat, by tossing it in a plastic trash can from Home depot next to a crowd of people?

[i.imgur.com image 245x180]
[i.imgur.com image 400x581]


That is a very good point!! <-- deserving of two exclamation points.
 
2013-01-30 07:26:03 PM

Rich Cream: Kibbler: Seriously, at some point they'll blow up a plane again

Again?


Ok ok.  Destroy a plane.
 
2013-01-30 07:33:16 PM

Kibbler: Rich Cream: Kibbler: Seriously, at some point they'll blow up a plane again

Again?

Ok ok.  Destroy a plane.


Yeah, the planes are the important thing. We must protect and preserve them for our children.
 
2013-01-30 07:36:41 PM
I want an app that will cross reference farkers from Anti-TSA threads, and the gun-grabber threads of late.  See how many and whoe hates decisions made in fear of terrorists, yet back doing something about guns due to fear of crazy people.
 
2013-01-30 07:39:55 PM
And the hoooomeee...of theeee....braaaaave!

Bullshiat.

The US government and people capitulated to terrorists by collectively shiatting our pants.

www.moneyandshit.com
We killed him, but the US government killed our collective spirit. We caved to terrorists by being terrified of too much toothpaste on a plane.
 
2013-01-30 07:45:02 PM

omeganuepsilon: I want an app that will cross reference farkers from Anti-TSA threads, and the gun-grabber threads of late.  See how many and whoe hates decisions made in fear of terrorists, yet back doing something about guns due to fear of crazy people.


I'm a second amendment supporter - it's there and it's somewhat unequivocal. But the actuarial tables will tell you you have a much higher chance of being killed by a handgun (crazy or sane, registered or not) than by an airplane wielding terrorist and it's not even remotely close. Crazy people without guns are a lot less dangerous than crazy people with them. I'm just sayin'... You don't have to send me a link to some nut stabbing people. It happens. It just doesn't happen nearly as often. And everyone - yes, everyone, has a knife.
 
2013-01-30 07:48:07 PM

generallyso: Is this how you would treat something you believed to pose a bomb threat, by tossing it in a plastic trash can from Home depot next to a crowd of people?

[i.imgur.com image 245x180]
[i.imgur.com image 400x581]


If you accept the premise of banning liquids, what they are doing makes perfect sense.

By tossing liquids into a bin, they are blocking terrorist plots that involve liquid explosives from passing security. They are not addressing the issue of terrorist plots to kill people in the security line. Think about it for a second. If you wanted to blow up the security line, how hard would it be? Hint: there's no security checkpoint to pass through to get into the line for the security checkpoint. :)
 
2013-01-30 07:50:31 PM

Shadowknight: Mine actually said "Sir, you have to understand it from our point of view. You have three inside there. That's suspicious. Why would you travel with more than the one? Why would you need so many?"


Meanwhile, Bruce Schneier had no problem carrying on two 12oz bottles of contact lens cleaning solution:

Later, Schneier would carry two bottles labeled saline solution-24 ounces in total-through security. An officer asked him why he needed two bottles. "Two eyes," he said. He was allowed to keep the bottles.
 
2013-01-30 07:57:14 PM

Jument: Think about it for a second. If you wanted to blow up the security line, how hard would it be?


Do you want to blow yourself up with the rest of the crowd or drop your bomb in a Home Depot trashcan and get away scott free?
 
2013-01-30 08:31:17 PM

lohphat: And the hoooomeee...of theeee....braaaaave!

Bullshiat.

The US government and people capitulated to terrorists by collectively shiatting our pants.

[www.moneyandshiat.com image 600x416]
We killed him, but the US government killed our collective spirit. We caved to terrorists by being terrified of too much toothpaste on a plane.


Maybe we killed him.  Maybe not.
 
2013-01-30 08:51:14 PM
"Nadine Hays of Camarillo"

www.certsoft.com
 
2013-01-30 08:52:29 PM

generallyso: Jument: Think about it for a second. If you wanted to blow up the security line, how hard would it be?

Do you want to blow yourself up with the rest of the crowd or drop your bomb in a Home Depot trashcan and get away scott free?


The airport is full of trashcans. You could walk from one end of the terminal to the other, dropping a bomb in as many cans as you could cover. No security checkpoint required. Hell, you could also just leave a truck full of anfo in the arrivals pickup area and walk away.

If the bad guys wanted to kill people outside security, they would just do it.
 
2013-01-30 09:10:03 PM

Jument: The airport is full of trashcans. You could walk from one end of the terminal to the other, dropping a bomb in as many cans as you could cover. No security checkpoint required. Hell, you could also just leave a truck full of anfo in the arrivals pickup area and walk away.

If the bad guys wanted to kill people outside security, they would just do it.


Yes. So in the end confiscating liquids is pointless theater.
 
2013-01-30 09:27:53 PM
i651.photobucket.com
Never forget!
i651.photobucket.com
/Pearl Harbor would've never happened if we'd had the TSA back in 1941!!
 
2013-01-30 09:46:39 PM

JohnBigBootay: omeganuepsilon: I want an app that will cross reference farkers from Anti-TSA threads, and the gun-grabber threads of late.  See how many and whoe hates decisions made in fear of terrorists, yet back doing something about guns due to fear of crazy people.

I'm a second amendment supporter - it's there and it's somewhat unequivocal. But the actuarial tables will tell you you have a much higher chance of being killed by a handgun (crazy or sane, registered or not) than by an airplane wielding terrorist and it's not even remotely close. Crazy people without guns are a lot less dangerous than crazy people with them. I'm just sayin'... You don't have to send me a link to some nut stabbing people. It happens. It just doesn't happen nearly as often. And everyone - yes, everyone, has a knife.


I'm not one to usually split hairs, but I'm talking about the whole "assault weapon"(IE AR-15) and cries for bans and limitations on such firearms, and the number for those compared to handguns, themselves.

The panic for guns, as it stands right now, is that 30~ people got killed at once with that sort of rifle.
Despite handguns having a much higher rate of ending lives, not much is really said about them.

It's demonstrated that it's the # at once dying that really sent people into a tizzy over the whole thing.  A whole bucket of sad at once is too much for some and their lose their tops.

9/11 was right around 3,000 people snuffed out, and that REALLY had people worked up, many still are, and it's certainly given the government a shoe in the door into our privacy in several ways.

Similar things are happening with firearms right now.  Bans, registrations, limitations on what they can do and how much ammo, etc, are all being clammored for, and down the road they could similarly impact our privacy.

There are a few parallells there, if not in the events, in the impacts and the public's reaction.

Many non-fliers don't give two shiats about the TSA, but because "security theater" as a principle does work(in theory) as a deterrent...well, can we go without it?

Many non-users of firearms think because hey, these things hurt people, why not get rid of them?

An even more similar thing with the TSA, is more and more security at our schools.  How long till kids are stripsearched at the doors?  They already get it in airports..

All in all, I think some diligence is required on both fronts, but neither approaches the US has come up with are the best way to put some effort into it, if the desired benefit is to actually deal with prevention of X.

Both circumstances will tend to treat a lot of legitimate users as if they are criminal, or be a straight up hassle to law abiding citizens, if not outright infringement of personal rights.
 
2013-01-30 09:47:40 PM
when you fly to israel, you get metal silverware, generally... and the security is far far quicker and easier...
 
2013-01-30 09:48:32 PM

omeganuepsilon: the lose their tops.


FTFM, but conveniently ignoring any others, long day.

/my chrome finally kicked in the new fark posting box, feels akward
 
2013-01-30 10:10:01 PM

proteus_b: when you fly to israel, you get metal silverware, generally... and the security is far far quicker and easier...


Because they're trained in psychological and behavioral profiling not just procedural rote checks. You're evaluated from the point you pass the first security checkpoint to access the airport terminals, to the curb, to the counter, to the gate, to the plane. Everyone is looking for signs of behavior -- primarily through interaction -- just asking simple pleasantries like "how are you doing today?" and "where are you off to?" and watching faces and body language are huge tip-off triggers for further scrutiny.

Here, our pre-diabetic TSA mouth-breathers just go through the motions looking for too much hair gel and toothpaste while the earn their overpaid salary and pensions. The old airport security personnel cost a fraction of what these federal employees cost and were no better or worse at the same damned job.
 
2013-01-31 12:20:44 AM

hitlersbrain: I had to give up a pair of nail scissors in my carry on a few years ago. Then I got on the plane and ordered a coffee. They gave me a 5 inch, hard plastic stirring stick with a end sharp enough that I could easily have stabbed someone to death with it.

/ Too much, Too late.


Too latte
 
2013-01-31 12:49:46 AM

Dahnkster: Mega Steve: You're next, pork chops!

The TSA hasn't touched my Peter...yet
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 615x463]


Brilliant!
 
2013-01-31 02:26:39 AM

Shadowknight: hitlersbrain: I had to give up a pair of nail scissors in my carry on a few years ago. Then I got on the plane and ordered a coffee. They gave me a 5 inch, hard plastic stirring stick with a end sharp enough that I could easily have stabbed someone to death with it.

/ Too much, Too late.

My sister is a flight attendant, and said that a fully uniformed and credentialed pilot of her's couldn't get onto the plane because he had a metal butter knife in his bag that he actually got from the first class galley on the previous plane.  The idea that he could take down the plane without the aid of that butter knife, namely by simply pushing the stick forward and closing his eyes, or that there were literally dozens more of them waiting on the very plane he was about to go fly completely eluded the TSA agent.  

My sister has a ton of stories about the stupid TSA issues, and I myself just seem to have bad luck with them.  Meanwhile, while I live in Europe and travel regularly, I have never gotten more than a "can I take a look into your bag?  Then you, move along."

/my fellow countrymen have become a nation of bed wetters


CSB: A few years ago a TSA agent looked into my carry-on bag and found a bottle of shampoo or cologne or something that was more than 3 oz. Instead of confiscating it, he just yelled at me for a minute, and gave me a "don't you know you're not supposed to bring that on a plane" speech. Then he let me through anyway, with my >3 oz. of liquid. They truly are not interested in security, only in having authority over us lowly passengers.
 
2013-01-31 05:01:52 AM
Three 3oz bolles? Pass! Once 9oz bottle? I'm sorry, you can't bring that on the plane
 
2013-01-31 08:16:56 AM
Just think of the children, if it even saves only 1 childs life you dont need any rights.
 
2013-01-31 08:33:29 AM

lohphat: Because they're trained in psychological and behavioral profiling not just procedural rote checks. You're evaluated from the point you pass the first security checkpoint to access the airport terminals, to the curb, to the counter, to the gate, to the plane. Everyone is looking for signs of behavior -- primarily through interaction -- just asking simple pleasantries like "how are you doing today?" and "where are you off to?" and watching faces and body language are huge tip-off triggers for further scrutiny.


exactly. not sure it could work in the u.s., being a much larger, more diverse country, with far more points of entry... but you never take off your shoes or belt in israel, and 3/4 of the time i don't even have to have my bags scanned... i guess i'm innocent looking :)
 
2013-01-31 09:22:25 AM

Shadowknight: QueenMamaBee: /CSB

I inadvertently brought applesauce on the plane home from Myrtle Beach. Didn't realize I still had some squeeze applesauce of my son's until on we were in the air. On the other hand, the TSA flipped out because I had "large canister shaped items" in my camera bag. Hmm, could they be lenses perhaps? Nah, better yank me out of line for the Spanish Inquisition because I have large canisters and am darker than a cafe latte.

//end CSB

If it makes you feel any better, I got the same thing the last time I flew into the States with my camera bag.  I have my portrait lens, my wide angle, and my 70-200 meter lens.  And I'm white as alabaster.  So you weren't profiled, they are just really really stupid.

Mine actually said "Sir, you have to understand it from our point of view.  You have three inside there.  That's suspicious.  Why would you travel with more than the one?  Why would you need so many?"

/seriously, you've never had photographers come through here before?


I'm glad they didn't say that, my impending sarcasm probably would have put me in the airport for a few more hours. As it is, I said to my agent (jokingly) "it's because I'm black isn't it?" (I'm not... just brown). She had zero sense of humor about it. Of course, the guy sitting next to me getting his luggage inspected was about the same color as me, so..... go figure.
 
2013-01-31 10:27:01 AM
The week after 9/11 you could bring applesauce on the plane, and probably a big jug of apple juice, if it could fit in the compartment. Maybe you guys' memories suck but 9/11 had nothing to do with this.
 
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