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(Some Religion Clause Blog)   Florist sued for religious discrimination over refusal to deliver flowers congratulating an atheist over her court victory over the local school board   (religionclause.blogspot.com) divider line 317
    More: Followup, religious discrimination, school boards, establishment clause, Freedom From Religion Foundation, public accommodations, atheists  
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2568 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Jan 2013 at 2:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-30 01:00:09 PM  
Before we get endless tirades about what dicks atheists are, imagine this.

"Hello, I'd like to send flowers to some friends, their daughter just had her baptism!"

"NO!  There is no God but Allah!  I will not deliver!"

I'm not commenting on whether or not a law was broken, just pointing out that there would be plenty of outrage from Christians if this happened.  It'd probably be the outrage du jour on FOX.
 
2013-01-30 01:11:12 PM  
The florist refused to deliver the order, and defended the decision publicly as the right to free speech, saying that an independent owner can choose his customers.

This is true... As long as the reason isn't on account of race or color, religion, country of ancestral origin, disability, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression
 
2013-01-30 01:11:19 PM  
♫  It's the cir-cle, of dickishness... ♫
 
2013-01-30 01:11:46 PM  
this is a bullshiat lawsuit, and I hope the florist loses her business due to a good old fashioned boycott due to her shiatty business plan.
 
2013-01-30 01:12:58 PM  
Some folks just don't understand 'freedom of speech'.  These idiots probably thought it was okay not to hire a black man because it's private business and freedom of speech.
 
2013-01-30 01:15:39 PM  

what_now: this is a bullshiat lawsuit, and I hope the florist loses her business due to a good old fashioned boycott due to her shiatty business plan.


The Conservative F-U machine that gave Chick-fil-a a banner week will also make sure she's richer now than she's ever been.
 
2013-01-30 01:17:13 PM  
last I checked, there was no constitutional right to flower delivery.
 
2013-01-30 01:20:45 PM  

unlikely: what_now: this is a bullshiat lawsuit, and I hope the florist loses her business due to a good old fashioned boycott due to her shiatty business plan.

The Conservative F-U machine that gave Chick-fil-a a banner week will also make sure she's richer now than she's ever been.


Nah, the Rerepubs don't like atheists, but they HATE the gheys. And this is actual discrimination instead of a dipshiat CEO speaking his mind. He never actually did anything except sound bigoted. This WAS bigoted.
 
2013-01-30 01:30:35 PM  

PapaChester: Nah, the Rerepubs don't like atheists, but they HATE the gheys


It wasn't about hating the gheys it was about hating the libs who called for a boycott.

That's why so many people were surprised they lost friends over it; they thought they were just taunting the libby-lib-libs and didn't realize what they were doing was calling their gay friends sub-human.
 
2013-01-30 01:31:36 PM  
I honestly don't even know what the law is here. It seems like they wouldn't be allowed to discriminate on the basis of who their customer is, much like a restaurant can't, but I don't really know.
 
2013-01-30 01:41:45 PM  

Weaver95: last I checked, there was no constitutional right to flower delivery.


Not the US Constitution.  However, the Rhode Island constitution, Title 11, Ch. 24, is more strict.   § 11-24-2 explicitly prohibits religious discrimination in places of public accommodation, and  § 11-24-3 (5) makes it clear that "public accommodations" includes retail stores.

Personally, I would prefer it if the florist just went out of business because people found out that s/he was a jerk and stopped shopping there.  However, it looks like s/he also broke the law.
 
2013-01-30 01:47:02 PM  

unlikely: what_now: this is a bullshiat lawsuit, and I hope the florist loses her business due to a good old fashioned boycott due to her shiatty business plan.

The Conservative F-U machine that gave Chick-fil-a a banner week will also make sure she's richer now than she's ever been.


Yeah, i thought that too..until I realized this was in Rhode Island. That kind of derp isn't very prevalent in New England.
 
2013-01-30 01:58:14 PM  

DamnYankees: I honestly don't even know what the law is here. It seems like they wouldn't be allowed to discriminate on the basis of who their customer is, much like a restaurant can't, but I don't really know.


Neither do I.

I *DO* know, however, that if I were the florist I would say, "Okay, that will be $XX.XX. Thank you very much. Your flowers will be delivered at the appointed time. Have a great day! Tell your friends about us!"

Because, unlike this person, I LIKE money.
 
2013-01-30 02:01:06 PM  
I'd like to send a gift basket, with a card that reads "Congratulations on your successful abortion.  Three times the charm." with picture of a woman releasing a dove.
 
2013-01-30 02:05:52 PM  
Shostie:

I *DO* know, however, that if I were the florist I would say, "Okay, that will be $XX.XX. Thank you very much. Your flowers will be delivered at the appointed time. Have a great day! Tell your friends about us!"

Because, unlike this person, I LIKE money.


Yeah, if someone hates a certain class of people more than they like making money, they probably should not have gone into business.
 
2013-01-30 02:12:39 PM  

mrshowrules: I'd like to send a gift basket, with a card that reads "Congratulations on your successful abortion.  Three times the charm." with picture of a woman releasing a dove.


How badly...

i105.photobucket.com

...do you want to...
i105.photobucket.com


...troll them?
i105.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-30 02:13:25 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: ♫  It's the cir-cle, of dickishness... ♫


Yeah, whoeve thinks they should be treated equally is a complete dick.
 
2013-01-30 02:13:38 PM  

FloydA: Weaver95: last I checked, there was no constitutional right to flower delivery.

Not the US Constitution.  However, the Rhode Island constitution, Title 11, Ch. 24, is more strict.   § 11-24-2 explicitly prohibits religious discrimination in places of public accommodation, and  § 11-24-3 (5) makes it clear that "public accommodations" includes retail stores.

Personally, I would prefer it if the florist just went out of business because people found out that s/he was a jerk and stopped shopping there.  However, it looks like s/he also broke the law.


What is awesome is that this moronic florist knew ANYTHING, she could have just said "I'm sorry, we'll be closed that day" or, "sorry, we are unable to get {whatever flower they requested}" maybe you should call the florist down the street.
 
2013-01-30 02:14:24 PM  
since when is a florist's services considered "public accommodation"?
 
2013-01-30 02:16:08 PM  

FloydA: mrshowrules: I'd like to send a gift basket, with a card that reads "Congratulations on your successful abortion.  Three times the charm." with picture of a woman releasing a dove.

How badly...

[i105.photobucket.com image 426x480]

...do you want to...
[i105.photobucket.com image 214x236]


...troll them?
[i105.photobucket.com image 561x720]


Then have a second person order a similar basket, to the same address, but have the message only read "Yay! Omelets!"
 
2013-01-30 02:17:42 PM  
As an athiest, I would just like to say encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-01-30 02:19:34 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: since when is a florist's services considered "public accommodation"?


This question has been answered.

Pay attention, Corky.
 
2013-01-30 02:19:42 PM  

FloydA: Weaver95: last I checked, there was no constitutional right to flower delivery.

Not the US Constitution.  However, the Rhode Island constitution, Title 11, Ch. 24, is more strict.   § 11-24-2 explicitly prohibits religious discrimination in places of public accommodation, and  § 11-24-3 (5) makes it clear that "public accommodations" includes retail stores.

Personally, I would prefer it if the florist just went out of business because people found out that s/he was a jerk and stopped shopping there.  However, it looks like s/he also broke the law.


That's one expansive definition of "place of public accommodation."
 
2013-01-30 02:19:51 PM  

impaler: The florist refused to deliver the order, and defended the decision publicly as the right to free speech, saying that an independent owner can choose his customers.

This is true... As long as the reason isn't on account of race or color, religion, country of ancestral origin, disability, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression


doubt a flower shop is a public accommodation.
 
2013-01-30 02:22:18 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: since when is a florist's services considered "public accommodation"?


Since their state constitution said they are.
 
2013-01-30 02:22:55 PM  

relcec: doubt a flower shop is a public accommodation.


It's open to the public. It serves the public. Just like restaurants and all other retail businesses.
 
2013-01-30 02:23:41 PM  

relcec: impaler: The florist refused to deliver the order, and defended the decision publicly as the right to free speech, saying that an independent owner can choose his customers.

This is true... As long as the reason isn't on account of race or color, religion, country of ancestral origin, disability, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression

doubt a flower shop is a public accommodation.


It's not that's why my flower shop has a sign that says No colored allowed.
 
2013-01-30 02:24:06 PM  

chopit: As an athiest, I would just like to say [encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 259x194]


How is it not helping to want equal protection under the established system of laws?
 
2013-01-30 02:24:20 PM  

what_now: unlikely: what_now: this is a bullshiat lawsuit, and I hope the florist loses her business due to a good old fashioned boycott due to her shiatty business plan.

The Conservative F-U machine that gave Chick-fil-a a banner week will also make sure she's richer now than she's ever been.

Yeah, i thought that too..until I realized this was in Rhode Island. That kind of derp isn't very prevalent in New England.


I know you're not far from RI, much like myself(CT), but you bet your sweet ass RI has that kind of derp. You're talking about the same state that ran a teenage girl out of school and town because she dared protest about a bible passage written on a gym wall. She _still_ receives threats about it, even now.

This even appears to be taking place in the same town as the above mentioned school shenanigans(Cranston)
 
2013-01-30 02:24:36 PM  

FloydA: Shostie:

I *DO* know, however, that if I were the florist I would say, "Okay, that will be $XX.XX. Thank you very much. Your flowers will be delivered at the appointed time. Have a great day! Tell your friends about us!"

Because, unlike this person, I LIKE money.

Yeah, if someone hates a certain class of people more than they like making money, they probably should not have gone into business.


This reminds me of the 2004 senate election in Colorado when Pete Coors was running for the seat as a Republican. In the GOP primary, he was attacked for providing benefits to the partners of its gay and lesbian employees and for promoting Coors in gay bars. He defended it as "good business" and then promptly reassured his base that he was still personally very much in support of a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

Yes, that's right. Coors was forced to defend himself, not for supporting gay marriage, but just for providing employee benefits to his gay workers. Imagine that even being a campaign controversy to discuss in 2013. It sometimes does pleasantly surprise me just how much progress we've already made in just 8 years time.
 
2013-01-30 02:26:52 PM  
There is nothing I enjoy more than a special right afforded to religious organizations being used against them.
 
2013-01-30 02:27:14 PM  

Genevieve Marie: It's open to the public. It serves the public. Just like restaurants and all other retail businesses.


It is a private business. Butt out. Go boycott it if you don't like it. WTF, are prostitutes (where legal) public accommodation?

Goddamit, this is why we need the second amendment.
 
2013-01-30 02:27:21 PM  

BlackCat23: what_now: unlikely: what_now: this is a bullshiat lawsuit, and I hope the florist loses her business due to a good old fashioned boycott due to her shiatty business plan.

The Conservative F-U machine that gave Chick-fil-a a banner week will also make sure she's richer now than she's ever been.

Yeah, i thought that too..until I realized this was in Rhode Island. That kind of derp isn't very prevalent in New England.

I know you're not far from RI, much like myself(CT), but you bet your sweet ass RI has that kind of derp. You're talking about the same state that ran a teenage girl out of school and town because she dared protest about a bible passage written on a gym wall. She _still_ receives threats about it, even now.

This even appears to be taking place in the same town as the above mentioned school shenanigans(Cranston)


In fact, I'm almost certain this is the same teenage girl, and that same court case is the one referenced in this lawsuit. If I recall, the florist didn't refuse to deliver out of direct dickishness, but because the religious townfolk threatened a boycott if the florist didn't refuse to serve the girl who dared to be atheist and follow the law.
 
2013-01-30 02:27:23 PM  

relcec: impaler: The florist refused to deliver the order, and defended the decision publicly as the right to free speech, saying that an independent owner can choose his customers.

This is true... As long as the reason isn't on account of race or color, religion, country of ancestral origin, disability, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression

doubt a flower shop is a public accommodation.


I just read the relevant section of the Rhode Island Constitution. I'm pretty sure a flower shop would be considered a "retail store".

§ 11-24-3 "Places of public accommodation" construed. - A "Place of public accommodation, resort, or amusement" within the meaning of §§ 11-24-1 - 11-24-3 includes, but is not limited to: (1) inns, taverns, roadhouses, hotels, whether conducted for the entertainment or accommodation of transient guests or of those seeking health, recreation or rest; (2) restaurants, eating houses or any place where food is sold for consumption on the premises; (3) buffets, saloons, barrooms, or any stores, parks, or enclosures where spirituous or malt liquors are sold; (4) ice cream parlors, confectioneries, soda fountains, and all stores where ice cream, ice and fruit preparations or their derivatives, or beverages of any kind are retailed for consumption on the premises; (5) retail stores and establishments, dispensaries, clinics, hospitals, rest rooms, bath houses, barber shops, beauty parlors, theaters, motion picture houses, music halls, airdromes, roof gardens, race courses, skating rinks, amusement and recreation parks, fairs, bowling alleys, golf courses, gymnasiums, shooting galleries, billiard and pool parlors, swimming pools, seashore accommodations and boardwalks, and public libraries; (6) garages; (7) all public conveyances operated on land, water or in the air as well as their stations and terminals; (8) public halls and public elevators of buildings occupied by two (2) or more tenants or by the owner and one or more tenants; and (9) public housing projects. Nothing in this section shall be construed to include any place of accommodation, resort, or amusement which is in its nature distinctly private. Link
 
2013-01-30 02:27:28 PM  
soooo, its a religion now?
 
2013-01-30 02:27:34 PM  
Doesn't a business owner have the right to refuse their services to anyone?
 
2013-01-30 02:28:08 PM  

poorcku: Genevieve Marie: It's open to the public. It serves the public. Just like restaurants and all other retail businesses.

It is a private business. Butt out. Go boycott it if you don't like it. WTF, are prostitutes (where legal) public accommodation?

Goddamit, this is why we need the second amendment.


So the florist should have been allowed to shoot the atheist?
 
2013-01-30 02:28:26 PM  

poorcku: Genevieve Marie: It's open to the public. It serves the public. Just like restaurants and all other retail businesses.

It is a private business. Butt out. Go boycott it if you don't like it. WTF, are prostitutes (where legal) public accommodation?

Goddamit, this is why we need the second amendment.


Who is it that you want to murder?
 
2013-01-30 02:29:00 PM  

Genevieve Marie: relcec: doubt a flower shop is a public accommodation.

It's open to the public. It serves the public. Just like restaurants and all other retail businesses.


perhaps you are focusing on the wrong word. accommodation might be important too.
 
2013-01-30 02:30:11 PM  

poorcku: Genevieve Marie: It's open to the public. It serves the public. Just like restaurants and all other retail businesses.

It is a private business. Butt out. Go boycott it if you don't like it. WTF, are prostitutes (where legal) public accommodation?

Goddamit, this is why we need the second amendment.


i.chzbgr.com
 
2013-01-30 02:30:37 PM  
I am not sure if anyone had pointed this out yet, but atheism isn't a religion.
 
2013-01-30 02:30:52 PM  

impaler: The florist refused to deliver the order, and defended the decision publicly as the right to free speech, saying that an independent owner can choose his customers.

This is true... As long as the reason isn't on account of race or color, religion, country of ancestral origin, disability, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression


So you are saying atheism is a religion?
 
2013-01-30 02:30:52 PM  

Spanky_McFarksalot: soooo, its a religion now?


No.
 
2013-01-30 02:31:39 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Before we get endless tirades about what dicks atheists are, imagine this.

"Hello, I'd like to send flowers to some friends, their daughter just had her baptism!"

"NO!  There is no God but Allah!  I will not deliver!"

I'm not commenting on whether or not a law was broken, just pointing out that there would be plenty of outrage from Christians if this happened.  It'd probably be the outrage du jour on FOX.


I wouldn't sue though. I'd go to their competitor. What if a guy went to your business requesting flowers to celebrate the anniversary of 911? You'd have the right to refuse to do business.
 
2013-01-30 02:31:39 PM  

poorcku: Genevieve Marie: It's open to the public. It serves the public. Just like restaurants and all other retail businesses.

It is a private business. Butt out. Go boycott it if you don't like it. WTF, are prostitutes (where legal) public accommodation?

Goddamit, this is why we need the second amendment.


Aw, man. If you left out the gun part at the end your troll would have been way more successful.
 
2013-01-30 02:31:50 PM  

Solon Isonomia: That's one expansive definition of "place of public accommodation."


relcec: doubt a flower shop is a public accommodation.


Any business that sells to the public, is a public accommodation.


Q. What are public accommodations?
A. A public accommodation is a private entity that owns, operates, leases, or leases to, a place of public accommodation. Places of public accommodation include a wide range of entities, such as restaurants, hotels, theaters, doctors' offices, pharmacies, retail stores, museums, libraries, parks, private schools, and day care centers. Private clubs and religious organizations are exempt from the ADA's title III requirements for public accommodations.
 
2013-01-30 02:33:25 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Who is it that you want to murder?


media.tumblr.com
 
2013-01-30 02:33:27 PM  
I, for one, am glad that someone rose to the occasion and acted on their beliefs. Most people talk about equal rights, but only as tulip service while pushing their own agenda. I can only hope that they keep their protest simple, as there is no need to gild the lily on this one. Carnations!
 
2013-01-30 02:33:47 PM  
I believe it's not to do with atheism being a religion but that the reason of refusal of accommodating the business is religious.
 
2013-01-30 02:33:57 PM  

RminusQ: BlackCat23: what_now: unlikely: what_now: this is a bullshiat lawsuit, and I hope the florist loses her business due to a good old fashioned boycott due to her shiatty business plan.

The Conservative F-U machine that gave Chick-fil-a a banner week will also make sure she's richer now than she's ever been.

Yeah, i thought that too..until I realized this was in Rhode Island. That kind of derp isn't very prevalent in New England.

I know you're not far from RI, much like myself(CT), but you bet your sweet ass RI has that kind of derp. You're talking about the same state that ran a teenage girl out of school and town because she dared protest about a bible passage written on a gym wall. She _still_ receives threats about it, even now.

This even appears to be taking place in the same town as the above mentioned school shenanigans(Cranston)

In fact, I'm almost certain this is the same teenage girl, and that same court case is the one referenced in this lawsuit. If I recall, the florist didn't refuse to deliver out of direct dickishness, but because the religious townfolk threatened a boycott if the florist didn't refuse to serve the girl who dared to be atheist and follow the law.


I didn't realize the cases were linked in such a manner. Frankly, I skimmed it(and the comments here)while waiting in the doctor's office. Now that I'm home, it appears you're correct.


/RI has some of the looniest fundie catholics I've ever had the displeasure of meeting. This is not to say it's not a lovely state and that most of the people aren't awesome, but this contingent is about as bad as it gets in New England..
 
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