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(Opposing Views)   If you can't get a 7-year-old to confess that he stole $5 after 10 hours of interrogation, he probably didn't steal it   (opposingviews.com) divider line 171
    More: Stupid, old boys, verbal abuse, mommies  
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13921 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2013 at 2:51 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-30 04:14:51 PM  
I suppose this has been asked already, but where were the parents that didn't step in?

/anyone know the race of the kids?
 
2013-01-30 04:19:15 PM  

ModernPrimitive01: I suppose this has been asked already, but where were the parents that didn't step in?

/anyone know the race of the kids?


in the piss tank two cells over
/not really
 
2013-01-30 04:19:19 PM  

dletter: Yeah, I mean, these things do happen... I actually recall when I was a kid (between 8-10 I think?) going to be questioned by the police (my mom was next to me i am pretty sure though).... from what I recall, I believe some guy had a big bottle of change stolen from his house, and some kid in the neighborhood said "Hey, that kid (me) was running a lemonade stand and had a bunch of change to buy his stuff".   I recall having to show them the hole I made in the back of my plastic Spiderman piggy bank to get the change out.

This instance though seemed like it went way over the line.


That is simultaneously sad and adorable.  I hope the police were behaving in a manner consistent with "I'm dealing with an 8 year old".

As for the case at hand, what the blue fark is wrong with NYPD?  I'm usually a supporter of cops but lord all mighty, things like this make it really hard for me to continue.  Hopefully there's just "something missing" from the story, like the mother is the reason they were there so long or... something.
 
2013-01-30 04:20:18 PM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

You pissed off some powerful people today, sonny. Someone's out $5 and that's not gonna just go away.
 
2013-01-30 04:22:44 PM  
This will just encourage the cops to use a taser combined with some old fashioned broom handle sodomy next time.  That little bastard would have confessed if they hadn't used kid gloves on him, this I can assure you.
 
2013-01-30 04:23:03 PM  
more information is always so helpful:
the "robbery" didn't happen at school
the little punk ass had been repeatedly harassing the other kid.

Bully's Victim Speaks

themoreyouknow.jpg
 
2013-01-30 04:23:20 PM  

xria: dletter: ZAZ: According to a $250 million claim that has been filed against the city and the NYPD

If you ask for $250 million for 10 hours of "interrogation and verbal abuse" you should be thrown out of court and fined for a frivolous claim, whether the allegations are true or false

Agreed, I mean, yes, there should probably be some sort of settlement here, but.... $250 million?  WTF do you even get that number?

Is this the same woman who claimed her boyfriend gave her 5 $1 million dollar bills to use to buy groceries at Walmart... and didn't have to cognitive ability to go "Wait a minute"....

Yeah, I mean he should surely know there is no way Walmart is going to have enough change to break a $1m bill.


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-30 04:27:09 PM  

damaje: more information is always so helpful:
the "robbery" didn't happen at school
the little punk ass had been repeatedly harassing the other kid.

Bully's Victim Speaks

themoreyouknow.jpg


Good info----anyone who hasn't checked out your link SHOULD in order to get the rest of the story.

The punk Reyes mother (in the pics) looks like a real piece of work herself.
 
2013-01-30 04:27:28 PM  
*CTRL-F* c-r-u-i-s.... 0 of 0

WHAT? Who is going to come to the defense of the police?
 
2013-01-30 04:27:54 PM  

damaje: more information is always so helpful:
the "robbery" didn't happen at school
the little punk ass had been repeatedly harassing the other kid.

Bully's Victim Speaks

themoreyouknow.jpg


Oh. My. God the comments that I am holding in... barely... righ now. Let's just go with, hey mom of bullied kid: maybe your son wouldn't be such a target for a child two years younger and much smaller if he maybe were in some sort of physical condition to be able to defend himself. And maybe you could help him out with that.
 
2013-01-30 04:28:42 PM  

The Muthaship: OgreMagi: Popcorn Johnny: So the little punk punched the kid in the face and then took the money.  fark the lil bastard, he got what he deserved.

Another kid confessed to taking the money.

According to the plaintiff's attorney.


Considering the city law office dropped all charges against this kid, it would seem he was not the guilty party. And even if he was, this is not the appropriate way to handle a 7-year-old, even the non-white ones.
 
2013-01-30 04:29:16 PM  
brammerfamily.com

NYPD: umm, nope!
 
2013-01-30 04:29:46 PM  

question_dj: I was illegally interrogated by the police as a child, so I'm really getting a kick...


Me too. Long story short:

Stole some liquor from the gas station where I worked. Stupidly left said liquor in my car. Owners kid saw me putting a box in my car, asked the owner what I was doing -- so they call the cops under the suspicion I was stealing. I'm chillin at a friends house, biggest A-hole cop shows up and completely tears my car apart, writes me 5 tickets. Takes me back to the station for interrogation from 11:00pm - 2am, lets me go after I don't tell him who or what all the liquor is for. I get 3 of the tickets dropped because they were complete BS.

But yes, I was interrogated for 3 hours without adult supervision and I was barely 16 years old.
 
2013-01-30 04:32:49 PM  
Was this one of those days when there weren't any murders in NYC? The cops musta been bored out of their skulls.
 
2013-01-30 04:35:09 PM  

dittybopper: xanadian: dittybopper: ZAZ: According to a $250 million claim that has been filed against the city and the NYPD

If you ask for $250 million for 10 hours of "interrogation and verbal abuse" you should be thrown out of court and fined for a frivolous claim, whether the allegations are true or false

I don't think so.

Imagine if this were a speeding ticket. If an individual were to get it, perhaps a fine of $200 would be appropriate. But what if the law says that a hired driver isn't responsible for for his actions, but his employer is. A $200 fine to a large company might not even be noticeable on their books. That's the situation here: The individual officers will likely not face any serious punishment because they have qualified immunity. Their employer, therefore, must be "encouraged" through the use of high fines to ensure that their employees follow the law.

True, but I still think a QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS is a bit too much. $25M, maybe. But not $250M.

And those cops should be fired and forbidden to work in law enforcement ever again.

Two additional things:

1. We're talking about New York City, the city with perhaps the deepest pockets in the US.
2. That's an initial bargaining position.


Punitive damages, guys, punitive damages. Until whatever corrupt/abusive authority realizes their actions will destroy their institution and the power it provides, you can count on these abuses continuing unencumbered. Seriously - how many heads rolled and policies adjusted do you think would come of a 250M judgment against the NYPD, Seattle PD, Denver PD, etc.

Would you change your view if the majority of the funds were distributed (say, 240M) to charities of the plaintiff's choosing?
 
2013-01-30 04:40:04 PM  

damaje: more information is always so helpful:
the "robbery" didn't happen at school
the little punk ass had been repeatedly harassing the other kid.

Bully's Victim Speaks

themoreyouknow.jpg


Thanks for the background information.  I retract my earlier statement.  With the current data (which may change), I'm going to guess the mom is a biatch who knows her kid is a punk and doesn't care at best, maybe even encourages him.

In 10 years the mom will be telling the police there is no way her precious little boy could have shot that store clerk.  Her baby is a good kid.
 
2013-01-30 04:40:49 PM  
They should have used a broom handle.
 
2013-01-30 04:46:12 PM  

Mr.Poops: question_dj: I was illegally interrogated by the police as a child, so I'm really getting a kick...

Me too. Long story short:

Stole some liquor from the gas station where I worked. Stupidly left said liquor in my car. Owners kid saw me putting a box in my car, asked the owner what I was doing -- so they call the cops under the suspicion I was stealing. I'm chillin at a friends house, biggest A-hole cop shows up and completely tears my car apart, writes me 5 tickets. Takes me back to the station for interrogation from 11:00pm - 2am, lets me go after I don't tell him who or what all the liquor is for. I get 3 of the tickets dropped because they were complete BS.

But yes, I was interrogated for 3 hours without adult supervision and I was barely 16 years old.


I actually did nothing illegal.  My friend's mother had a storage unit in the storage complex across the road from the apartments we lived in.  In the mornings before school we would ride our bikes through it because it had these awesome ramps and hills that were tons of fun to ride.  I think I was 12?  Anyway, one day during class the principal calls my name over the intercom and tells me to go to a room.  The DARE officer is waiting there.  Why is she there?  Because the night before, someone used the gate code to try to get into the storage complex.  Not the actual storage unit, just the complex.

She interrogated me for about an hour, to the point of tears, without my parents there, without any school administrators either.  Just me and her.  She accused me, told me that I had to have done it because the other two kids were in tears saying that they didn't do it, so I must have done it.  So when I got back to class, everyone thought I was going to juvenile hall because I'd done something.

Once we contacted the ACLU, the Police Chief, and the school district superintendent, the principal stepped down and the DARE officer lost her job.  I don't think any charges were ever filed.
 
2013-01-30 04:49:55 PM  

namegoeshere: lectnamegoeshere: Except after this the child has a hate for all things police and sees them as the Evil Enemy.

Well we all have to learn that lesson eventually.

 
2013-01-30 04:50:45 PM  

abhorrent1: robbery charge? Fark, people have gone full-on farking stupid.


That's probably the one of numerous factual errors made by the newspaper. In New York you can't charge a minor under 14 with a crime. The only thing you can charge them with is juvenile delinquency, which is a status offense.

I've seen plenty of stuff in person, then have read news articles on it where none of the information is correct. I know this is Fark, but don't believe everything you read in the papers; heck, don't even believe half of it.
 
2013-01-30 04:53:06 PM  

MelGoesOnTour: damaje: more information is always so helpful:
the "robbery" didn't happen at school
the little punk ass had been repeatedly harassing the other kid.

Bully's Victim Speaks

themoreyouknow.jpg

Good info----anyone who hasn't checked out your link SHOULD in order to get the rest of the story.

The punk Reyes mother (in the pics) looks like a real piece of work herself.


Could she be this Frances Mendez?

gallery.rxmuscle.com
 
2013-01-30 04:53:23 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: Well, with a surname like Reyes, could you blame them?


Cop must have been an angry Mets Fan
 
2013-01-30 05:02:38 PM  
Jack Yankowitz.

Jack Yankowitz

Jack Yankowitz
 
2013-01-30 05:03:26 PM  
OK this shows me the NYPD has too much time on its hands. Maybe cut the force by 5% this fiscal year.
 
2013-01-30 05:04:08 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Obviously you've never dealt with a seven year old.


/father of a seven and a four year old
//need to be Matlock to figure out who broke the coffee mug.


I was an only child, and was always jealous of my friends who had siblings to draw attention away from themselves. In my house, even if the babysitter broke the coffee mug it was still my fault. There was no interrogation; I was just grounded or slapped without due process, lol. My dad even blamed things on me to escape my mom's wrath, the way you'd blame a fart on the dog.

 On the other hand, I didn't have to share the Christmas gift budget with a brother or sister, so that was pretty cool.
 
2013-01-30 05:04:12 PM  

namegoeshere: damaje: more information is always so helpful:
the "robbery" didn't happen at school
the little punk ass had been repeatedly harassing the other kid.

Bully's Victim Speaks

themoreyouknow.jpg

Oh. My. God the comments that I am holding in... barely... righ now. Let's just go with, hey mom of bullied kid: maybe your son wouldn't be such a target for a child two years younger and much smaller if he maybe were in some sort of physical condition to be able to defend himself. And maybe you could help him out with that.


You are a fool; hopefully, a childless, sterile fool.  The victim certainly could have defended himself, and ended up in the attacker's cuffs.  His mom taught him not to fight and he didn't. Good mom, good kid.

And he's not fat; he's just big-boned.
 
2013-01-30 05:09:08 PM  

Godscrack: Clicks link. Yup.

How did I know this would either be a Hispanic or black kid?


Hell, I guessed New York before I even clicked the link.

Has anybody ever had a decent experience with the NYPD? Personally? Anybody?

/Bueller?
 
2013-01-30 05:19:49 PM  

question_dj: I was illegally interrogated by the police as a child, so I'm really getting a kick...


it never ceases to amaze me how many people have experienced what's going on in the corresponding news article. it really takes all kinds to make a world.
 
2013-01-30 05:23:47 PM  
And every one of these so called public "servants" (I use the term EXTREMELY loosely) will get the best lawyers money can buy and to keep his or her job. Zero incentive to ever do the right thing.

In any other profession, a monumental screw-up like this would result in one being frog-marched out the door.

Disgusting wastes of oxygen.
 
2013-01-30 05:24:41 PM  

question_dj: Mr.Poops: question_dj: I was illegally interrogated by the police as a child, so I'm really getting a kick...

Me too. Long story short:

Stole some liquor from the gas station where I worked. Stupidly left said liquor in my car. Owners kid saw me putting a box in my car, asked the owner what I was doing -- so they call the cops under the suspicion I was stealing. I'm chillin at a friends house, biggest A-hole cop shows up and completely tears my car apart, writes me 5 tickets. Takes me back to the station for interrogation from 11:00pm - 2am, lets me go after I don't tell him who or what all the liquor is for. I get 3 of the tickets dropped because they were complete BS.

But yes, I was interrogated for 3 hours without adult supervision and I was barely 16 years old.

I actually did nothing illegal.  My friend's mother had a storage unit in the storage complex across the road from the apartments we lived in.  In the mornings before school we would ride our bikes through it because it had these awesome ramps and hills that were tons of fun to ride.  I think I was 12?  Anyway, one day during class the principal calls my name over the intercom and tells me to go to a room.  The DARE officer is waiting there.  Why is she there?  Because the night before, someone used the gate code to try to get into the storage complex.  Not the actual storage unit, just the complex.

She interrogated me for about an hour, to the point of tears, without my parents there, without any school administrators either.  Just me and her.  She accused me, told me that I had to have done it because the other two kids were in tears saying that they didn't do it, so I must have done it.  So when I got back to class, everyone thought I was going to juvenile hall because I'd done something.

Once we contacted the ACLU, the Police Chief, and the school district superintendent, the principal stepped down and the DARE officer lost her job.  I don't think any charges were ever filed.


Gee, thanks for making me look like a bad guy! That really sucks though, especially at 12 -- that's such an awkward age.
 
2013-01-30 05:24:50 PM  

slayer199: They should have waterboarded him.  That would have gotten him to talk.


They should have shown him what happens when you find a stranger in the amps.
 
2013-01-30 05:40:47 PM  
That was a great 'Amazing World of Gumball' episode.
 
2013-01-30 05:48:00 PM  
Reason #234, 873, 293, 934 that I HATE cops.

ALL of them are douchebags at a fundamental level.

/it it wasn't for cops, fewer laws would actually be broken.

//yes, I dont care the circumstances...cops are useless.

///interrogating a 7 year old without parents present is illegal...but who cares, right?
 
2013-01-30 05:49:00 PM  
I feel safer.
 
2013-01-30 05:56:52 PM  
The police may be brutalizing kids in NYC but at least no one can have a large soda, well unless you go to 7-11 then that's ok!
 
2013-01-30 06:15:45 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: namegoeshere: damaje: more information is always so helpful:
the "robbery" didn't happen at school
the little punk ass had been repeatedly harassing the other kid.

Bully's Victim Speaks

themoreyouknow.jpg

Oh. My. God the comments that I am holding in... barely... righ now. Let's just go with, hey mom of bullied kid: maybe your son wouldn't be such a target for a child two years younger and much smaller if he maybe were in some sort of physical condition to be able to defend himself. And maybe you could help him out with that.

You are a fool; hopefully, a childless, sterile fool.  The victim certainly could have defended himself, and ended up in the attacker's cuffs.  His mom taught him not to fight and he didn't. Good mom, good kid.

And he's not fat; he's just big-boned.


Nope. Bad mom for allowing causing him to be in that condition. And he is a lifetime victim. And now that he has announced as much in the news, every bully in his school will target him.

Sometimes you have to throw the elbow.
 
2013-01-30 06:37:11 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: Well, with a surname like Reyes, could you blame them?


What the perp might look like:
www.archives-alliance.com
 
2013-01-30 06:40:27 PM  

namegoeshere: damaje: more information is always so helpful:
the "robbery" didn't happen at school
the little punk ass had been repeatedly harassing the other kid.

Bully's Victim Speaks

themoreyouknow.jpg

Oh. My. God the comments that I am holding in... barely... righ now. Let's just go with, hey mom of bullied kid: maybe your son wouldn't be such a target for a child two years younger and much smaller if he maybe were in some sort of physical condition to be able to defend himself. And maybe you could help him out with that.


So he needs to fight back because he's a fatty? They'd find something else to bully him for, or someone else to assault and rob.
 
2013-01-30 06:46:55 PM  

xanadian: dittybopper: ZAZ: According to a $250 million claim that has been filed against the city and the NYPD

If you ask for $250 million for 10 hours of "interrogation and verbal abuse" you should be thrown out of court and fined for a frivolous claim, whether the allegations are true or false

I don't think so.

Imagine if this were a speeding ticket. If an individual were to get it, perhaps a fine of $200 would be appropriate. But what if the law says that a hired driver isn't responsible for for his actions, but his employer is. A $200 fine to a large company might not even be noticeable on their books. That's the situation here: The individual officers will likely not face any serious punishment because they have qualified immunity. Their employer, therefore, must be "encouraged" through the use of high fines to ensure that their employees follow the law.

True, but I still think a QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS is a bit too much. $25M, maybe. But not $250M.

And those cops should be fired and forbidden to work in law enforcement ever again.


It's not a penalty for screwing this up.  It's a penalty for hiring someone stupid enough to do something like this.... and then giving them a gun.
 
2013-01-30 06:48:21 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Could she be this Frances Mendez?


Why did you do this to us? What have we ever done to you to deserve that post? Better make with the eye bleach, son, because I don't get paid until Friday.
 
2013-01-30 06:49:18 PM  

DB: Before you freak out, the sources for this story all go back to claims in a lawsuit for which no evidence has yet been prevented. I'm not saying the cops were right but you're not getting the whole picture when the scoop is from the New York Post. Get some credible info first.


The police charged a 7yr old with robbery over a $5 bill.

That should result in resignations of everyone involved, even if everything else in the story were false.
 
2013-01-30 06:51:23 PM  

moothemagiccow: namegoeshere: damaje: more information is always so helpful:
the "robbery" didn't happen at school
the little punk ass had been repeatedly harassing the other kid.

Bully's Victim Speaks

themoreyouknow.jpg

Oh. My. God the comments that I am holding in... barely... righ now. Let's just go with, hey mom of bullied kid: maybe your son wouldn't be such a target for a child two years younger and much smaller if he maybe were in some sort of physical condition to be able to defend himself. And maybe you could help him out with that.

So he needs to fight back because he's a fatty? They'd find something else to bully him for, or someone else to assault and rob.


No, he needs to be able to defend himself so they leave him alone. The bully is a tiny little shiat. The victim is much larger and two years older. If he made any effort at all to defend himself, he would stop being a target.

No I'm not saying he should himself turn into a bully. But there is nothing wrong with self defense.
 
2013-01-30 06:58:00 PM  

dittybopper: ZAZ: According to a $250 million claim that has been filed against the city and the NYPD

If you ask for $250 million for 10 hours of "interrogation and verbal abuse" you should be thrown out of court and fined for a frivolous claim, whether the allegations are true or false

I don't think so.

Imagine if this were a speeding ticket. If an individual were to get it, perhaps a fine of $200 would be appropriate. But what if the law says that a hired driver isn't responsible for for his actions, but his employer is. A $200 fine to a large company might not even be noticeable on their books. That's the situation here: The individual officers will likely not face any serious punishment because they have qualified immunity. Their employer, therefore, must be "encouraged" through the use of high fines to ensure that their employees follow the law.


That's the logic behind hospitals, automakers, and the others who pay heavily for mistakes. The idea is that it needs to be punitive. If a hospital, company or, yes, police force believes it can act recklessly and face only modest fines, there would be no incentive to follow the rules. The judgments are supposed to be ludicrously high in order to keep people in line.

I say take it a step further. Let's say you're a guy making 35k per year and you get a $200 speeding ticket. That hurts. The guy driving the Ferrari can just shrug it off like dropping a quarter in a storm drain. Make the penalties commensurate with your income/worth. Some European locales already do this, particularly towns along roads known to be frequented by sports car enthusiasts. A punishment is only fair when it hurts everyone proportionally.  Is it a cash grab? Probably. But it makes people think twice before douching up society.
 
2013-01-30 07:06:00 PM  

lostcat: If they have no evidence, deny the accusation until you are dead.

I'm pretty sure I figured this out before I turned 7.


I recently had a run-in with some local cops, though I had done nothing wrong. Typically, I fall on the side of the police, but even I know to clam up even when innocent. Nothing you say can possibly help you, and can be twisted to work against you even though you were conversing in good faith.

Whenever I watch Law & Orderor a true crime show, I'm baffled at how a suspect would give anything but their name and perhaps an address. The more you talk, the more you fark yourself. I think that most people want to please the police and end up inadvertently screwing themselves.

No matter what the cop pressures you with, it's your right to STFU. It's one of the most important rights we have. So use it.
 
2013-01-30 07:13:21 PM  

namegoeshere: No, he needs to be able to defend himself so they leave him alone. The bully is a tiny little shiat. The victim is much larger and two years older. If he made any effort at all to defend himself, he would stop being a target.

No I'm not saying he should himself turn into a bully. But there is nothing wrong with self defense.


And yes, unfortunately, he will quite probably face discipline for defending himself. Zero tolerance - Huzzah! But when he gets back to school from his suspension, I'll bet the little shiat will leave him alone. Personally, I'd have my kid take the black mark on his permanent record if it takes the bullseye off his ass.
 
2013-01-30 07:35:57 PM  

dickfreckle: I say take it a step further. Let's say you're a guy making 35k per year and you get a $200 speeding ticket. That hurts. The guy driving the Ferrari can just shrug it off like dropping a quarter in a storm drain. Make the penalties commensurate with your income/worth. Some European locales already do this, particularly towns along roads known to be frequented by sports car enthusiasts. A punishment is only fair when it hurts everyone proportionally. Is it a cash grab? Probably. But it makes people think twice before douching up society.


It is a cash grab, which is why we have the point system.  It's an 'alternate traffic currency' in which everyone in the jurisdiction has the exact same amount of currency.  It has it's problems, such as lack of reciprocity, but the guy who skips town due to points is also the same guy who can skip town due to fines.
 
2013-01-30 08:07:50 PM  
This is just how cops roll.
 
2013-01-30 08:23:14 PM  
Every day I see articles and youtubes about incompetent policing or involving wanton criminals exercising their police powers over innocents. WTF is wrong with you America? I used to look up to you but now I'm just sad.
 
2013-01-30 08:27:00 PM  
We bought a two family house with another couple back in 1990, Two of their kids shared a room that was technically on our side of the house but in order to even things up, we gave to them (ten years later we converted to condo, they sold their side, and we got the room back). My wife complained to me one day that money she thought she had in her purse kept turning up missing. We couldn't figure it out. One night I was having a cigarette on the back porch when I saw the door between the houses open and the older daughter, maybe 10 or 11 at the time, skipped into our kitchen. She helped herself to a cookie from the jar, then opened my wife's purse, pulled out a twenty, and skipped out again. The weeping and gnashing of teeth could be heard through all of Gilead that day, let me tell you.

On the other hand, when my own girls were about four and six, I was downstairs doing the dishes one night when I heard screaming and crying from the girls' room. My wife had walked past their door and heard the following whispered conversation:

"Should I tell her?"
"I dunno."
"What should I do?"
"Don't say anything!"

It seems that when my wife had gone shopping that day No. 1 daughter had plucked a single black olive from the salad bar as they rolled past it and popped it into her mouth. I ran upstairs and she was wailing "I have guilt! I have guilt!" Naturally both my wife and I had to stifle our laughter as we sternly told her she would have to make restitution. She begged us not to make her go there in person and she ended up laboriously writing a letter with a penny taped to it that started "By an accident..."
 
2013-01-30 08:27:36 PM  
I hope the victim's family sues this kid's family and gets everything, including any nuisance payoff the city attorney decides to pay this woman.
 
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