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(Opposing Views)   If you can't get a 7-year-old to confess that he stole $5 after 10 hours of interrogation, he probably didn't steal it   (opposingviews.com) divider line 172
    More: Stupid, old boys, verbal abuse, mommies  
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13916 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2013 at 2:51 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-30 03:12:09 PM

Bob_Laublaw: ZAZ: According to a $250 million claim that has been filed against the city and the NYPD

If you ask for $250 million for 10 hours of "interrogation and verbal abuse" you should be thrown out of court and fined for a frivolous claim, whether the allegations are true or false

And no judge will do that. Like in any other similar litigation, the price was and is driven by lawyers, and it's highly likely based upon precident.

The $250 mil here is indeed seen as high by sensible people; sensible people should also focus their attention on the police who basically handed the civilians in question this lawsuit.


I know you're a lawyer with a Law Blog, but imo, this amount is too low.
Sorry you disagree, but this kind of behavior is considered completely unacceptable by a lot of us. Since nobody involved will actually be reprimanded, the court should be levying such a fine against the city so the city feels the pain enough to make sure this kind of nonsense doesn't continue.
 
2013-01-30 03:12:50 PM

The Muthaship: He beat up a weaker kid and took his money. That's a robbery.

The police say his mother was there the whole time, and that he was at the station for less than 5 hours (I've spent that long trying to get my license renewed), unwad your panties.

If you want to b*tch about them arresting a 7 year old, advocate for a change in the law that requires them to do so.


What law would we be advocating to change that requires the police to do this?
 
2013-01-30 03:14:20 PM
Cops must of been trained by Cheney.
 
2013-01-30 03:14:48 PM

kbronsito: dittybopper: How in the Hell did they think they could interrogate a 7 year old child without a parent present? A child that age can't understand his rights under the Constitution, and so even if they *DID* read him his rights, any information they did get couldn't be used against him. Any competent lawyer would be able to get that thrown out of court in a New York Minute.

How does the police not know about this? Every other lawyer show on tv has an episode per season dealing with questioning of minors. The school also should know that a child needs to be with a parent of someone from social services serving as an advocate to be interrogated. If the school didn't attempt to stop the police from questioning or taking the boy, the kid's family should sue them after they finish with NYPD.

The kid should also get a trip to Disney when the money rolls in.


Where in the article does it say the kid was interrogated without a parent present? The mom admits to seeing her son in handcuffs and nothing is mentioned in the article about the family wondering where the kid was for those 10 hours so I figured the Mom was present.

But it's still farked up to even question the kid for 4 hours (not to mention 10) over 5 dollars. How the fark are the cops even justifying this waste of time to their superiors?
 
2013-01-30 03:15:18 PM

Moopy Mac: What law would we be advocating to change that requires the police to do this?


The article I read said that 7 year old's can be charged, but 6 year old's can't. Sort of arbitrary.
 
2013-01-30 03:17:51 PM

Bob_Laublaw: "If you have a child, a nephew, can you even imagine this happening to them?"

Maybe.... what race is my child or nephew?


My nephews and nieces are mixed race of white with black, philipino, or hispanic, depending upon which of my siblining's children we are talking about.  Yeah, we are the damn melting pot of America.

Doing this shiat to a member of my family will result in years of legal difficulties for the people involved.  Not surprised this is in NYC.  That government considers Rights and the Constitution to be something to be set aside when it becomes inconvenient.
 
2013-01-30 03:17:55 PM

Dirtybird971: it's amazing to me how much different this article is to a different one I read earlier today. The other one had it like the 7 yo knocked down a 9 yo and took the 5.00 from his pocket.


Yea but that was a the Daily News.....
 
2013-01-30 03:18:37 PM
Great cost to benefit ratio......
 
2013-01-30 03:18:47 PM
Of course they didn't get anything out of him - they didn't waterboard him or hook up his nipples to a car battery. Amateurs.
 
2013-01-30 03:19:20 PM
And people wonder why cops get so much crap. If any other random group of people tried to hold a kid for 10 hours without his parents present, you'd expect very bad things to be happening.
 
2013-01-30 03:19:44 PM

2wolves: "Can you say lawsuit?"


I can't see any jury siding with the city on this one. We're not quite that soulless. Yet.

I want to say "idiots will be fired". This is abuse of authority if ever there was.
 
2013-01-30 03:20:05 PM

Popcorn Johnny: So the little punk punched the kid in the face and then took the money.  fark the lil bastard, he got what he deserved.


Another kid confessed to taking the money.
 
2013-01-30 03:20:20 PM

DrPainMD: Came to read posts from Farkers who are not only outraged about this, but also who vote for the same politicians who won't do anything about it and ridicule everybody who votes for people who would do something about it. Left satisfied, and somewhat disgusted.


Really? I don't think a lot of the people in this thread vote for law&order, "prove you're a US citizen with papers if you're in Arizona", authoritative republicans.

That is what you meant, right?
 
2013-01-30 03:21:38 PM

OgreMagi: Popcorn Johnny: So the little punk punched the kid in the face and then took the money.  fark the lil bastard, he got what he deserved.

Another kid confessed to taking the money.


According to the plaintiff's attorney.
 
2013-01-30 03:24:14 PM
robbery charge? Fark, people have gone full-on farking stupid.
 
2013-01-30 03:24:51 PM
api.ning.com
 
2013-01-30 03:25:14 PM

xanadian: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: dletter: ZAZ: According to a $250 million claim that has been filed against the city and the NYPD

If you ask for $250 million for 10 hours of "interrogation and verbal abuse" you should be thrown out of court and fined for a frivolous claim, whether the allegations are true or false

Agreed, I mean, yes, there should probably be some sort of settlement here, but.... $250 million?  WTF do you even get that number?

Not even her attorney thinks for a moment they will get that amount in a settlement, or judgement.
You toss out a high number, and negotiate down.

I do hope the family gets something out of this, and not just peanuts. While I can see having a cop handy to put the fear of God into a kid (yes, I also have--or had--a seven year old, he's now 9) just with his presence, hauling the kid off to jail in cuffs and keeping him there for 6+ hours is just a tad bit extreme. And when I say "a tad bit," I mean SERIOUSLY WTF IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE!??!?


Yeah, I mean, these things do happen... I actually recall when I was a kid (between 8-10 I think?) going to be questioned by the police (my mom was next to me i am pretty sure though).... from what I recall, I believe some guy had a big bottle of change stolen from his house, and some kid in the neighborhood said "Hey, that kid (me) was running a lemonade stand and had a bunch of change to buy his stuff".   I recall having to show them the hole I made in the back of my plastic Spiderman piggy bank to get the change out.

This instance though seemed like it went way over the line.
 
2013-01-30 03:29:07 PM
"The city's Law Department wound up dropping the robbery charge"

The liitle boy isn't the only one who was pulled out of school, evidently.
 
2013-01-30 03:29:56 PM

silverjets: But it's still farked up to even question the kid for 4 hours (not to mention 10) over 5 dollars. How the fark are the cops even justifying this waste of time to their superiors?


cops can have all the overtime they can make up a reason for. this is how many cops in houston make well over $100k a year (not, of course, counting the money they get from bribes or selling drugs and guns and other confiscated stuff). i'm sure the nypd can make much, much more by grabbing some overtime here and there.
 
2013-01-30 03:32:01 PM
With all the murders and rapes going I'm glad the NYPD found the time to shake down a 7yo for 10 hrs over $5 bill
 
2013-01-30 03:32:10 PM
Did they try the comfy chair?
orangecow.org
/he wouldn't expect that
 
2013-01-30 03:32:14 PM
dittybopper

How in the Hell did they think they could interrogate a 7 year old child without a parent present? A child that age can't understand his rights under the Constitution, and so even if they *DID* read him his rights, any information they did get couldn't be used against him. Any competent lawyer would be able to get that thrown out of court in a New York Minute.

All well and good but I learned in 3rd grade "you can't claim ignorance to the law".

/that's why everyone here is a lawyer.
 
DB
2013-01-30 03:32:32 PM
Before you freak out, the sources for this story all go back to claims in a lawsuit for which no evidence has yet been prevented. I'm not saying the cops were right but you're not getting the whole picture when the scoop is from the New York Post. Get some credible info first.
 
2013-01-30 03:32:51 PM

Popcorn Johnny: So the little punk punched the kid in the face and then took the money.  fark the lil bastard, he got what he deserved.


I guess you missed the part where the article said another kid admitted to taking the money?
 
2013-01-30 03:34:38 PM

robbiex0r

Dirtybird971: it's amazing to me how much different this article is to a different one I read earlier today. The other one had it like the 7 yo knocked down a 9 yo and took the 5.00 from his pocket.

Yea but that was a the Daily News.....


STAY OUT OF MY BRAIN!!!
 
2013-01-30 03:36:55 PM
www.officialpsds.com
 
2013-01-30 03:39:54 PM

dittybopper: How in the Hell did they think they could interrogate a 7 year old child without a parent present? A child that age can't understand his rights under the Constitution, and so even if they *DID* read him his rights, any information they did get couldn't be used against him. Any competent lawyer would be able to get that thrown out of court in a New York Minute.


Unless the law has changed recently, a child in New York State can not be questioned without a parent or guardian present. I have no idea WTF was really going on here, (I suspect we might not be getting the full story on this one) but if the mother had any knowledge at any point during that time that this was going on and did not say "STOP IMMEDIATELY I DEMAND A LAWYER FOR MY CHILD" then she is an idiot.

I taught mine from an early age to be polite and respectful to all police officers, and to politely say, "I want a lawyer, please" if they are ever questioned.
 
2013-01-30 03:41:51 PM
Give this kid a ton of credit. After 10 hours of interrogation by police I run across grown adults who admit to doing it (whatever it happens to be at the time) regardless of their actual guilt.
 
DB
2013-01-30 03:43:56 PM
From the Daily News article:

The cop source close to the incident said the 7-year-old had been bullying the victim for some time, prompting the victim's mom to call for a meeting with teachers and the suspect's mom.

"This kid is no angel, even though he may look like it," the source said. "We made the arrest based on the complainant aggressively complaining about what the defendant did to him."


Still not saying the cops are right but don't take the lawyer's word at face face value
 
2013-01-30 03:45:34 PM

DB: From the Daily News article:

The cop source close to the incident said the 7-year-old had been bullying the victim for some time, prompting the victim's mom to call for a meeting with teachers and the suspect's mom.

"This kid is no angel, even though he may look like it," the source said. "We made the arrest based on the complainant aggressively complaining about what the defendant did to him."

Still not saying the cops are right but don't take the lawyer's word at face face value


Grains of salt for everyone!
 
2013-01-30 03:45:56 PM

dletter: ZAZ: According to a $250 million claim that has been filed against the city and the NYPD

If you ask for $250 million for 10 hours of "interrogation and verbal abuse" you should be thrown out of court and fined for a frivolous claim, whether the allegations are true or false

Agreed, I mean, yes, there should probably be some sort of settlement here, but.... $250 million?  WTF do you even get that number?

Is this the same woman who claimed her boyfriend gave her 5 $1 million dollar bills to use to buy groceries at Walmart... and didn't have to cognitive ability to go "Wait a minute"....


Yeah, I mean he should surely know there is no way Walmart is going to have enough change to break a $1m bill.
 
2013-01-30 03:50:54 PM

Godscrack: Clicks link. Yup.

How did I know this would either be a Hispanic or black kid?


Cause they have a genetic disposition to be criminals?
 
2013-01-30 03:52:15 PM
Maybe this'll put a stop to the "boys will be boys" horseshiat
 
DB
2013-01-30 03:52:17 PM
mahuika: Grains of salt for everyone!

Heh. Exactly.
 
2013-01-30 03:52:59 PM
250 MILLION DOLLARS?!?@?!?!?!? ARE YOU farkING KIDDING ME!? i'm so farking sick of lazy americans thinking every litigious event is a free cash grab. fark you.
 
2013-01-30 03:54:22 PM

rogue_L_chick: WTF did they tell the mom for 5 hours?? She says she heard him crying, in handcuffs - so she was there? I don't want to get all Internet Toughie here, but I can't imagine not being able to get him out of there. If Idiot #1 doesn't cough up the key to the cuffs, then I would be off to find #2. Think about it, enough time stating the situation, to enough people in a police station, someone will agree that interrogating a 7 year old without counsel for 10 hours for $5 is not a good thing. Hell, you could have a lawyer there in 30 minutes, I'm sure. This time thing is really driving me nuts.

I'm also amazed they wanted to keep him that long. I'm pretty sure they would have tossed my kid within 2 hours. At 7, he talked about nothing but Pokemon to anyone who would sit still. After the 50th "you know what a squirtle's revoloution is? I'll tell you..." they'd turn him loose.


Probably the mom thought he was in school, called the district, found out, and was waiting outside until they gave him back, in handcuffs. And he was probably too busy crying to say anything, unfortunately--I wish these numbnuts had gotten the full hyperactive-kid treatment.

/The kid is  seven. You sit with them for five minutes, let them play with a flashlight, listen to the Pokemon stories, and ask "you're not in trouble, but did you take the money? OK, can you empty your pockets? Thanks, have a cookie, go have fun today".
//Seriously, WHY is someone who doesn't know the above working in a FARKING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?
 
2013-01-30 03:54:29 PM
I'm just not understanding WHY they wanted to arrest the kid over 5 bucks in thefirst place. They wouldn't arrest an adult for that, so was this some monstrously-gone-wrong scared-straight program?
 
2013-01-30 03:55:53 PM

lackadaisicalfreakshow: I'm just not understanding WHY they wanted to arrest the kid over 5 bucks in thefirst place. They wouldn't arrest an adult for that, so was this some monstrously-gone-wrong scared-straight program?


It depends on the set of facts you want to accept. If an adult walked up to another adult and punched them in the face knocking them down, then took $5 from them, you may rest assured they'd be arrested.
 
2013-01-30 03:58:19 PM
WTF?!?!?
kid needed to throw down some sass and tell them he didn't take the money but if they take him to his house he's sure his parents would give them $5 to stfu and GBTW.
WTF

Rustblade: 250 MILLION DOLLARS?!?@?!?!?!? ARE YOU farkING KIDDING ME!? i'm so farking sick of lazy americans thinking every litigious event is a free cash grab. fark you.


I would've sued for double that if it was my kid and then sued you for calling me lazy
/not american
 
2013-01-30 03:58:46 PM

Felgraf: DrPainMD: Came to read posts from Farkers who are not only outraged about this, but also who vote for the same politicians who won't do anything about it and ridicule everybody who votes for people who would do something about it. Left satisfied, and somewhat disgusted.

Really? I don't think a lot of the people in this thread vote for law&order, "prove you're a US citizen with papers if you're in Arizona", authoritative republicans.

That is what you meant, right?


He probably meant the politicians who control city council, which has been under solid Democratic control for years (y'know, the party largely in bed with the public employee unions that will make sure the policemen who used this kind of excessive force will receive nothing worse than paid leave time).
 
2013-01-30 03:58:52 PM

The Muthaship: Moopy Mac: What law would we be advocating to change that requires the police to do this?

The article I read said that 7 year old's can be charged, but 6 year old's can't. Sort of arbitrary.


Any age limit is arbitrary. You can buy beer when you're 21 years old, but not when you're 20 years and 364 days old.
 
2013-01-30 03:59:27 PM

PsiChick:
/The kid is  seven. You sit with them for five minutes, let them play with a flashlight, listen to the Pokemon stories, and ask "you're not in trouble, but did you take the money? OK, can you empty your pockets? Thanks, have a cookie, go have fun today".
//Seriously, WHY is someone who doesn't know the above working in a FARKING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?


If (big if here) the reports about the kid being a serial bully and hitting other kids in the face is true I think "sitting with them for 5 minutes then talk about Pokemon" is not doing the kid any favors for his future. I think you're imaging fragile little Timmy in a case of mistaken identity, but depending on how they're raised kids can start getting vicious at age 6-7 without proper parental guidance. Again, that could be total BS and I agree with you on principle, but there are plenty of dudes in jail now who might've turned out alright if someone had set them straight at that age instead of giving them a figurative cookie.
 
2013-01-30 03:59:31 PM

lackadaisicalfreakshow: I'm just not understanding WHY they wanted to arrest the kid over 5 bucks in thefirst place. They wouldn't arrest an adult for that, so was this some monstrously-gone-wrong scared-straight program?


They wouldn't arrest an adult for assault? To the face? I'm not moving to your version of NYC
 
2013-01-30 04:00:44 PM
Can't do the time, don't be black
 
2013-01-30 04:02:49 PM

Rustblade: 250 MILLION DOLLARS?!?@?!?!?!? ARE YOU farkING KIDDING ME!? i'm so farking sick of lazy americans lawyers thinking every litigious event is a free cash grab. fark you.


Lawyers. The price was set by LAWYERS. They will win in court or get a settlement for much less, but they will reap a financial windfall.

Once again, it's got nothing to do with the kid or his family; it has everything to do with law enforcement not playing by well-established rules of engagement.
 
2013-01-30 04:03:34 PM

The Muthaship: lackadaisicalfreakshow: I'm just not understanding WHY they wanted to arrest the kid over 5 bucks in thefirst place. They wouldn't arrest an adult for that, so was this some monstrously-gone-wrong scared-straight program?

It depends on the set of facts you want to accept. If an adult walked up to another adult and punched them in the face knocking them down, then took $5 from them, you may rest assured they'd be arrested.


And TFA states that another boy admitted taking the cash, and it sounds like the altercation was after the accusation of theft. Again, with a separate confession and reasonable provocation, I doubt even an adult would get this treatment. If he was a dick, an arrest for simple assault maybe. A cowed individual? Not hardly.
 
2013-01-30 04:03:43 PM
That read like a Daily Fail article.
 
2013-01-30 04:04:38 PM

Electromax: PsiChick:
/The kid is  seven. You sit with them for five minutes, let them play with a flashlight, listen to the Pokemon stories, and ask "you're not in trouble, but did you take the money? OK, can you empty your pockets? Thanks, have a cookie, go have fun today".
//Seriously, WHY is someone who doesn't know the above working in a FARKING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?

If (big if here) the reports about the kid being a serial bully and hitting other kids in the face is true I think "sitting with them for 5 minutes then talk about Pokemon" is not doing the kid any favors for his future. I think you're imaging fragile little Timmy in a case of mistaken identity, but depending on how they're raised kids can start getting vicious at age 6-7 without proper parental guidance. Again, that could be total BS and I agree with you on principle, but there are plenty of dudes in jail now who might've turned out alright if someone had set them straight at that age instead of giving them a figurative cookie.


Except after this the child has a hate for all things police and sees them as the Evil Enemy.
 
2013-01-30 04:08:24 PM

dittybopper: ZAZ: According to a $250 million claim that has been filed against the city and the NYPD

If you ask for $250 million for 10 hours of "interrogation and verbal abuse" you should be thrown out of court and fined for a frivolous claim, whether the allegations are true or false

I don't think so.

Imagine if this were a speeding ticket. If an individual were to get it, perhaps a fine of $200 would be appropriate. But what if the law says that a hired driver isn't responsible for for his actions, but his employer is. A $200 fine to a large company might not even be noticeable on their books. That's the situation here: The individual officers will likely not face any serious punishment because they have qualified immunity. Their employer, therefore, must be "encouraged" through the use of high fines to ensure that their employees follow the law.


This^ It's called punitive damages, and mixed into it is the N word -- negligence. Once you get to the level that the cops acted without appropriate supervision or, more importantly, with the knowledge and acquiescence of their superiors, it's a whole different game.

Let's say you're t-boned by an oil truck and the driver turns out to be on meth or drunk. If his superiors had no knowledge of his behavior, it is difficult to prove negligence. But let's say his supervisor knew of this problem, reported it to management and nothing was done about it - look out below, the big N is in play, and it's going to cost the company enough to bust it.
 
2013-01-30 04:09:57 PM
If they have no evidence, deny the accusation until you are dead.

I'm pretty sure I figured this out before I turned 7.
 
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