If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Times Union)   New York governor wants to charge fee to plea bargain speeding tickets because traffic court judges are diverting too much state ticket revenue to their towns   (blog.timesunion.com) divider line 46
    More: PSA, Governor of New York, New York, plea deal, speeding tickets, Andrew Cuomo, fees  
•       •       •

3922 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2013 at 11:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-01-30 10:38:50 AM  
How is this "saving lives"? Is the extra $80 supposed to be a discouragement to people who text and drive, or violate cell phone laws?

It won't. These people are already operating under the idea that "it won't happen to them." Not the ticket, not the accident, and not the vehicular manslaughter, so they certainly aren't worried about an extra charge.

Plus if they're able to afford to plea out, I'm guessing another $80 isn't hurting them. If it's not hurting, it's not discouraging. In the end, all that happens is the state gets more money.

But you already knew that.
 
2013-01-30 11:05:02 AM  
If it were about public safety, the money would go to charity and not be a budgeted source of income.
 
2013-01-30 11:05:33 AM  
As usual... NYS government (much like the local governments) don't have citizens, we're ATMs


Load of crap
 
2013-01-30 11:06:22 AM  

New York governor wants to charge fee to plea bargain speeding tickets


Why should people be charged for what is basically due process?
 
2013-01-30 11:07:52 AM  
NJ figured this out a while ago.

They came up with a new charge called careless driving. It carries a higher fine than most other tickets, but didn't hit you with points and insurance in the same way as say, a 20mph speeding ticket would, since the insurance companies had no idea what the actual ticket was for.

So instead of pleading down to a seatbelt ticket or something, they would offer you a careless driving ticket. State made a few bucks more, you saved on your insurance, and everyone was happy.

Except that everyone started offering and taking it as a plea, so they had to change it so you could only get it once every few years. Then the insurance companies realized they were missing out on a reason to raise your rates, so started treating careless driving as a mid-range speeding ticket, which everyone knew it was.
 
2013-01-30 11:08:13 AM  
I'd make fun of NY, but the sad truth is that every other state behaves like this, too. Some more than others, true....
 
2013-01-30 11:09:20 AM  
By adding all sorts of fees, taxes and surcharges to tickets, It becomes more and more of an incentive to just not pay the tickets. It already is becoming a choice for many, as every week I read the paper, someone is involved in a fatal accident and one of the parties had their license suspended 19 times. Either the driver either doesn't care or can't afford all the BS charges to license/register a vehicle
 
2013-01-30 11:09:52 AM  
Unless things have changed the state *already* makes money off speeding on pleas. My one and only speeding ticket was on 27 (Sunrise) out near S. Hampton heading to class. Cop pulled me over right after a passed a truck, had me dead to rights doing 78 in a 55, so I plead guilty and paid the rather large fine (and ate the points).~2 weeks later I found out that I also owed Albany a $150 "driver safety assessment fee" or I would lose my license. I went to the DMV to verify, which they did, so I paid it, but I *still* fume about it every so often.
 
2013-01-30 11:12:02 AM  

stevejovi: I'd make fun of NY, but the sad truth is that every other state behaves like this, too. Some more than others, true....


No, they deserve to be mocked, just as every other state that adopts this bullshiat approach to revenue generation.
 
2013-01-30 11:12:50 AM  
Amazing what subjects will put up with.
 
2013-01-30 11:14:37 AM  

Dave Lister: If it were about public safety, the money would go to charity and not be a budgeted source of income.


Most New Yorkers already think the government is a charity.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-30 11:17:17 AM  
seek3r

You pleaded guilty instead of plea bargaining.

This is what's supposed to happen:

Cop writes you up for going with the flow of traffic 76 in a 55. You plead guilty or are convicted. You pay $150 fine to the state, $85 state surcharge for a moving violation conviction, $300 DRA assessment for the 6 points.

This is what happens in many traffic courts:

Local prosecutor lets you plead guilty to one or two parking violations. Court collects the same $150 fine, which goes to the town where the court is located. The state gets no fine, no surcharge, and no DRA assessment.

The governor has two proposals: First, make sure you get points on your license (so you get the DRA asssessment, at least for a second offense). Second, make sure the state still gets the ticket surcharge.
 
2013-01-30 11:19:36 AM  
Reminds me of when I went to traffic court in Cali. Whatever your fine is, they multiply it by 1.5 and that is your court fee. Basically a tax on having to goto court.

I could understand a standing fee for actual court costs, but nope. total fees = fine + fine * 1.5.

Stupid.
 
2013-01-30 11:20:30 AM  
Because the only crime that really matters to governments is speeding.
Burglary, murder, actual real "Crime"is too much hard work and it's just not profitable enough.
 
2013-01-30 11:21:12 AM  
FTA: "Larry Schwartz, the governor's top aide, sent a letter to three leaders of local government groups saying the move is not a money grab at their expense"

So, the Governator can't tell his own lies? WTF?

Told you it was all about the MONEY!

Gonna have to apply "Divide and Conquer" to our petty little government stooges. They have shown you how well it works.
 
2013-01-30 11:21:59 AM  

BafflerMeal: Reminds me of when I went to traffic court in Cali. Whatever your fine is, they multiply it by 1.5 and that is your court fee. Basically a tax on having to goto court.

I could understand a standing fee for actual court costs, but nope. total fees = fine + fine * 1.5.

Stupid.


How else are you going to collect The MONEY from innocents?
 
2013-01-30 11:23:40 AM  
These are indeed troubling times in the shire.
 
2013-01-30 11:23:59 AM  

ZAZ: seek3r

You pleaded guilty instead of plea bargaining.

This is what's supposed to happen:

Cop writes you up for going with the flow of traffic 76 in a 55. You plead guilty or are convicted. You pay $150 fine to the state, $85 state surcharge for a moving violation conviction, $300 DRA assessment for the 6 points.

This is what happens in many traffic courts:

Local prosecutor lets you plead guilty to one or two parking violations. Court collects the same $150 fine, which goes to the town where the court is located. The state gets no fine, no surcharge, and no DRA assessment.

The governor has two proposals: First, make sure you get points on your license (so you get the DRA asssessment, at least for a second offense). Second, make sure the state still gets the ticket surcharge.


Fair enough, I'm more pissed that I got thwacked with the fine 2 weeks later with no mention of it on the ticket, the extra $150 was enough that I would have fought it for a plea bargain at the time had I known (which, I suppose, is why they're proposing this).
 
2013-01-30 11:24:50 AM  
Remember, traffic citations aren't for your safety - they're a tax, charged against the reckless, the inept, and the dangerous. In theory.

In practice, it's a crapshoot - the truly depressing part is that it's shiat like this that makes normal, honest, otherwise happy citizens fearful of the police. We understand that it's a crapshoot, and that no matter how good a driver you are, you may still get snagged by a cop looking to make his quota, or a cop who has flat-out made a mistake.

What's fun is that you'll now be punished if you protest. You will be fined if you contest a ticket. You will be fined if you don't contest a ticket. Basically, you will be fined if you're noticed - and that's why normal, honest, otherwise happy citizens fear the police. We don't want cops to notice us. We don't call you when a crime occurs, unless it's so heinous we can't deal with it ourselves, because cops often make a situation far worse by bringing it to their notice. We don't see you as a positive, protective presence, because you're just as likely to turn on us for no discernable reason, simply because you noticed us.

We gave you military weapons and tactics to protect us in extreme situations, You use them on no-knock warrants for a kid that might have pot. We gave you tools to protect us from terrorists. You use them on protestors and homless citizens. We try to restrain your capability to do inadvertent harm. You shoot us. We try to provide oversight. You circumvent it.

Is it any wonder we fear you? You do as much harm as those criminals you claim to protect us against, and there's even less recourse for us against you than there is against those criminals.
 
2013-01-30 11:27:16 AM  
Cue all the cops saying that finding violations and writing tickets is not all about revenue...
 
2013-01-30 11:28:57 AM  

seek3r:  doing 78 in a 55


Good gawd damn, kid.

Day_Old_Dutchie: Because the only crime that really matters to governments is speeding.
Burglary, murder, actual real "Crime"is too much hard work and it's just not profitable enough.


This.
 
2013-01-30 11:31:59 AM  
The only time I got a speeding ticket was in a rural county here in KY. I was told by co-workers to take the ticket to the County Attny's office and request that it be amended.

I did just that. Walked in and the assistant looked at me and said, "Speeding ticket?" I replied yes, she took the ticket, filled out a new form and handed it to me, then told me to take the form to the courthouse and pay the fine. $85 for "improper equipment" which is basically a broken taillight. The fine was the same as the ticket would've been.

The County got their money, I learned my lesson (and didn't get my ins. jacked up). No harm, no foul.
 
2013-01-30 11:32:09 AM  

ZAZ: The governor has two proposals: First, make sure you get points on your license

the insurance company who donated to the governor's campaign can jack up your rates for a ticky-tack offense

Fixed for you.

Cuomo is better than most but that's still a -NY after his name and you trust one of those at your peril.

This measure is a sop to New York City, where there's not as much highway-speed driving going on as there is upstate and on Lawn Guyland.

The trouble is that the state and local governments have gotten so addicted to using ticket revenue to paper over massive budget holes, there's no possible way to try all the cases that would go to court if this plan went through - in other words, the governor's flunky is full of shiat. There are plenty of spots in New York with artificially-low speed limits, where it's a piece of cake to get popped for going 20 over the limit.
 
2013-01-30 11:36:09 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: New York governor wants to charge fee to plea bargain speeding tickets


Why should people be charged for what is basically due process?


Because like all big cities, "they" don't give a shiat about you or your rights. They took my guns, now they're takin my due processes.
 
2013-01-30 12:10:07 PM  
New York is in contention for it's own tag and doing a fantastic job....
 
2013-01-30 12:42:50 PM  
6
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence


Exactly how does charging a fee for access to the court not violate your sixth amendment rights?
 
2013-01-30 12:55:20 PM  

Flakeloaf: 6
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence

Exactly how does charging a fee for access to the court not violate your sixth amendment rights?


With the 2nd amendment in the shiatter there already, why should you suppose any other amendments beyond the propaganda arm of the 1st or the court created right to abortion to even matter to this guy anyway?

He'll make a great VP for Hillary, and POTUS on his own when she has served her 2 terms. Thank god I'm old and obamacare will kill me long before that.
 
2013-01-30 01:01:16 PM  
As if I needed another reason to stay the fark out of New York.
 
2013-01-30 01:03:25 PM  

garandman1a: Thank god I'm old and obamacare will kill me long before that.


Is it wrong that I wouldn't much mind if this were actually true?
 
2013-01-30 01:13:33 PM  
Gov. Andrew Cuomo does not like his job very much.
 
2013-01-30 01:24:57 PM  

garandman1a: court created right to abortion


Much better than the court-created right to be obligated to follow someone else's religious bullshiat.
 
2013-01-30 01:41:03 PM  
After he came up with that idea, he went home and banged this:

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-30 02:35:03 PM  
What bugs me is being charged fees when you fight the ticket and win. I did win on a technicality (Officer didn't properly sign the ticket, and didn't show up in court, so it was tossed before I could even argue the merits...)

Later got a bill for $25 from the court clerk...

You plead, you get fee'd, that's a given, but "not guilty fee"s are unconscionable.
 
2013-01-30 02:55:31 PM  

seek3r: Unless things have changed the state *already* makes money off speeding on pleas. My one and only speeding ticket was on 27 (Sunrise) out near S. Hampton heading to class. Cop pulled me over right after a passed a truck, had me dead to rights doing 78 in a 55, so I plead guilty and paid the rather large fine (and ate the points).~2 weeks later I found out that I also owed Albany a $150 "driver safety assessment fee" or I would lose my license. I went to the DMV to verify, which they did, so I paid it, but I *still* fume about it every so often.


WTF does a "driver safety assessment" entail?  Pulling up your record on a screen and saying, "Meh, first offense" or "Holy shiat! We gotta pull this guy's license?"
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-30 03:31:13 PM  
BarkingUnicorn

It's effectively a state tax on license points, on top of the state surcharge on license points. $300 tax for 6 points plus $75 per point over 6, plus $85 surcharge per moving violation no matter how many points it is. Several states have imposed these fees to increase speeding ticket revenue. Virginia's was repealed due to bad press over $3,000 speeding tickets. Some states supposedly use the tax to fund medical care, the same way they supposedly use tobacco settlement funds to cure smoking.
 
2013-01-30 03:51:24 PM  
Stop giving California ideas.
 
2013-01-30 04:46:25 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: seek3r: Unless things have changed the state *already* makes money off speeding on pleas. My one and only speeding ticket was on 27 (Sunrise) out near S. Hampton heading to class. Cop pulled me over right after a passed a truck, had me dead to rights doing 78 in a 55, so I plead guilty and paid the rather large fine (and ate the points).~2 weeks later I found out that I also owed Albany a $150 "driver safety assessment fee" or I would lose my license. I went to the DMV to verify, which they did, so I paid it, but I *still* fume about it every so often.

WTF does a "driver safety assessment" entail?  Pulling up your record on a screen and saying, "Meh, first offense" or "Holy shiat! We gotta pull this guy's license?"


Hey, pulling up a record on a screen isn't free, the clerk has to drink coffee for a couple hours beforehand so that he can even understand NY's arcane records!
 
2013-01-30 04:47:37 PM  
"It's not a money grab" BULLSHIAT IT'S NOT A MONEY GRAB  auurrrghhhhhh sometimes I can't STAND the fact that I work for this state's government.
 
2013-01-30 04:48:41 PM  
Summary: We can't be arsed to go through all the hoops of passing a real law that would raise taxes, so we are just going to find something to slap a fee onto that we have the power to do without any of that actual legal-process nonsense.
 
2013-01-30 04:49:47 PM  

FormlessOne: We gave you tools to protect us from terrorists. You use them on protestors and homless citizens. We try to restrain your capability to do inadvertent harm. You shoot us. We try to provide oversight. You circumvent it.

Is it any wonder we fear you? You do as much harm as those criminals you claim to protect us against, and there's even less recourse for us against you than there is against those criminals.


Who likes protesters and homeless people? Tear gas em' all. They both smell equally bad and have no place on our sidewalks with their poorly drawn signs that are likely insincere in some way anyways.

You know, I especially like when people get tazed during traffic stops. There's always a big uproar about their rights being violated, etc, but you know what? I hear an awful lot of words in those videos that arent "Yes sir" or "No sir". If you say something other than that to a police officer, you're probably wrong. They already worry about whether the next person they pull over is going to shoot them in the face or run them over, they dont need to put up with you whining because you were going 70 in a 55. That's too fast, slow down you moron. Argue in court, not on the side of the road.
 
2013-01-30 05:52:10 PM  

seek3r: BarkingUnicorn: seek3r: Unless things have changed the state *already* makes money off speeding on pleas. My one and only speeding ticket was on 27 (Sunrise) out near S. Hampton heading to class. Cop pulled me over right after a passed a truck, had me dead to rights doing 78 in a 55, so I plead guilty and paid the rather large fine (and ate the points).~2 weeks later I found out that I also owed Albany a $150 "driver safety assessment fee" or I would lose my license. I went to the DMV to verify, which they did, so I paid it, but I *still* fume about it every so often.

WTF does a "driver safety assessment" entail?  Pulling up your record on a screen and saying, "Meh, first offense" or "Holy shiat! We gotta pull this guy's license?"

Hey, pulling up a record on a screen isn't free, the clerk has to drink coffeevodka for a couple hours beforehand so that he can even understand NY's arcane records!


/ftfy
 
2013-01-30 09:44:04 PM  
Come to CT - They hand you an envelope with your ticket so you can just plead nolo contendere & pay the fine, and mail it to the CIB (centralized infractions bureau). The state has really streamlined their driving taxes.
 
2013-01-31 05:16:21 AM  

david_gaithersburg: Amazing what subjects will put up with.


And what would YOU do about it?
 
2013-01-31 08:10:40 AM  
I am 4 and 0 defending traffic tickets for clients. I count it as a "win" if there's no guilty plea or finding of guilt or any need to pay state assessments or the fine, and the insurance companies never find out about it. In exchange, the citizen pays just the "court costs" which are less than court costs plus fines and state assessments and risking higher insurance premiums. And I get like 50 bucks and take a long lunch hour and visit my colleagues working municipal prosecution.

You have to have an otherwise clean driving record. The judge wants to make sure that you're not a menace to society. Also, the prosecutr usually checks with the cop to make sure that you weren't all mouthy and hard to get along with, I assume to not reward people who act like asses to the cops.

Of course, actual guilt or innocence doesn't enter anywhere into this equation. :)

So, be polite, keep a clean record, and find an attorney buddy willing to work for little more than gas money to ask them to remand the case to the file in exchange for just paying court costs and you can save money and keep it off your record. If you ask for the same thing without an attorney, you might not have as much luck, but you're welcome to try. :)

Or, you know, don't speed and be really careful. That works too. :)
 
2013-01-31 10:03:27 AM  

Abacus9: david_gaithersburg: Amazing what subjects will put up with.

And what would YOU do about it?


Complain, mostly.  Prolly blame it on someone he doesn't like while he's at it.

He is the Gaithersburg.
 
2013-01-31 03:54:11 PM  

FormlessOne: Remember, traffic citations aren't for your safety - they're a tax, charged against the reckless, the inept, and the dangerous. In theory.

In practice, it's a crapshoot - the truly depressing part is that it's shiat like this that makes normal, honest, otherwise happy citizens fearful of the police. We understand that it's a crapshoot, and that no matter how good a driver you are, you may still get snagged by a cop looking to make his quota, or a cop who has flat-out made a mistake.

What's fun is that you'll now be punished if you protest. You will be fined if you contest a ticket. You will be fined if you don't contest a ticket. Basically, you will be fined if you're noticed - and that's why normal, honest, otherwise happy citizens fear the police. We don't want cops to notice us. We don't call you when a crime occurs, unless it's so heinous we can't deal with it ourselves, because cops often make a situation far worse by bringing it to their notice. We don't see you as a positive, protective presence, because you're just as likely to turn on us for no discernable reason, simply because you noticed us.

We gave you military weapons and tactics to protect us in extreme situations, You use them on no-knock warrants for a kid that might have pot. We gave you tools to protect us from terrorists. You use them on protestors and homless citizens. We try to restrain your capability to do inadvertent harm. You shoot us. We try to provide oversight. You circumvent it.

Is it any wonder we fear you? You do as much harm as those criminals you claim to protect us against, and there's even less recourse for us against you than there is against those criminals.


The most dangerous criminals are the "legal" ones licensed by the State.
"It's not illegal when we do it!" What utter bullchit.
Always has been that way. That would be why you, the Citizen, are supposed to be in charge and ARMED.
Arming the cops is just a sissy nanny to avoid responsibility and rationalize fear.
 
Displayed 46 of 46 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report