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(ESPN)   Carolina Panthers: "We need your help to renovate our stadium, or else"   (espn.go.com) divider line 80
    More: Unlikely, Panthers, Bank of America Stadium, Jerry Richardson, Arrowhead Stadium, PSLs, stadiums, taxpayer dollars, Lucas Oil Stadium  
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2041 clicks; posted to Sports » on 30 Jan 2013 at 2:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-30 12:07:36 AM
Do it yourselves you greedy farks.  No city should ever pay for stadium improvements.  The loans are crippling to the city, especially these days.
 
2013-01-30 12:08:47 AM
I hear you calling, Los Angeles.
 
2013-01-30 12:20:52 AM
I hope citizens decide to do what we did with the Sonics and just let them go.  Just don't make the mistake of inviting them back.
 
2013-01-30 12:37:48 AM
If all the owners threatening to move to LA actually do so, LA could form their own league.
 
2013-01-30 01:44:09 AM

mr_a: I hear you calling, Los Angeles.


We don't want them.
 
2013-01-30 01:47:24 AM

Krieghund: mr_a: I hear you calling, Los Angeles.

We don't want them.


Indeed- why should we take on someones' garbage ?
 
2013-01-30 02:03:00 AM
I know why it happens, but public financing of stadiums is always a mistake. Seriously.

Thankfully cities are starting to realize this, though it took a huge recession for it to happen. Numerous cities are still paying for stadiums built decades ago and already demolished.
 
2013-01-30 02:08:59 AM
www.evolutionfairytale.com
 
2013-01-30 02:10:34 AM

mr_a: I hear you calling, Los Angeles.


As a third generation Los Angeleno, I hope the NFL never comes back.

I was overjoyed when the scumbag Raiders left.  I could not have cared less about the Rams.

I think that LA has been left without a team intentionally so other teams can blackmail their cities.

The NFL (and other pro leagues) have an anti-trust exemption and lotsa tax breaks.  Fark those guys.  If they want improvements, they can pay for them.  They're rolling in cash.  Taxpayers shouldn't give them a dime.  That's why I don't give a fark about pro leagues.  I don't go to their overpriced games and won't follow them.
 
2013-01-30 02:11:23 AM
The unfortunate response is that some of this locales simply don't warrant fancy renovations; Charlotte, NC isn't a bad city by any means... but it's not a destination. For as terrible as the Cardinals are as an ownership group and organization, people at least want to use the stadium we've built them. That's why we have the recurring Fiesta Bowl and an upcoming Superb Owl. North Carolina? Yeah...
 
2013-01-30 02:12:00 AM
fark 'em. if you need to upgrade, pay for it itself. public money to support that shiat is bullshiat.
 
2013-01-30 02:12:14 AM

Mentat: If all the owners threatening to move to LA actually do so, LA could form their own league.


Yeah, L.A. already has the Vikings, the Raiders, the Rams, and the Jaguars.  Greedy.
 
2013-01-30 02:13:32 AM

L.D. Ablo: mr_a: I hear you calling, Los Angeles.

As a third generation Los Angeleno, I hope the NFL never comes back.

I was overjoyed when the scumbag Raiders left.  I could not have cared less about the Rams.

I think that LA has been left without a team intentionally so other teams can blackmail their cities.

The NFL (and other pro leagues) have an anti-trust exemption and lotsa tax breaks.  Fark those guys.  If they want improvements, they can pay for them.  They're rolling in cash.  Taxpayers shouldn't give them a dime.  That's why I don't give a fark about pro leagues.  I don't go to their overpriced games and won't follow them.


This is comical coming form the most superficial, commercial and otherwise useless metropolitan centre in the United States outside Vegas. Please, the NFL doesn't want you.
 
2013-01-30 02:16:38 AM
maybe bank of america can bail out bank of america stadium. after all, they are too big to fail so no remodel would be too expensive for them to finance.

/fark 'em...
 
2013-01-30 02:16:53 AM
2013 is the 49ers last season in San Francisco.  They're moving 39 mils south to Santa Clara.
 
2013-01-30 02:24:22 AM
also, i would love to see the breakdown on those "4,400 direct jobs" claimed. shiatty seasonal employment selling beer for minimum wage isn't exactly the community building jobs that supporters of the "stadiums create jobs" bullshiat have sold the public. of course the public is stupid.
 
2013-01-30 02:25:26 AM
It's a trap! Trust us!


Signed,
Cincinnati
 
2013-01-30 02:37:57 AM

Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: L.D. Ablo: mr_a: I hear you calling, Los Angeles.

As a third generation Los Angeleno, I hope the NFL never comes back.

I was overjoyed when the scumbag Raiders left.  I could not have cared less about the Rams.

I think that LA has been left without a team intentionally so other teams can blackmail their cities.

The NFL (and other pro leagues) have an anti-trust exemption and lotsa tax breaks.  Fark those guys.  If they want improvements, they can pay for them.  They're rolling in cash.  Taxpayers shouldn't give them a dime.  That's why I don't give a fark about pro leagues.  I don't go to their overpriced games and won't follow them.

This is comical coming form the most superficial, commercial and otherwise useless metropolitan centre in the United States outside Vegas. Please, the NFL doesn't want you.


You sound like a butthurt New Yorker.

Include outlying cities in Los Angeles County and Orange County, and the area is easily the biggest city in the United States.

It's a huge TV market, which is where the money is.  The NFL leaves the market unfulfilled so teams can threaten to move to LA and extract cash from their market for not leaving.

The Dodgers, Angels, Lakers, Clippers, Kings, and Ducks extract a lot of cash.  The NFL isn't here as a negotiating tool.
 
2013-01-30 02:38:42 AM
If the Carolina Panthers want to renovate their stadium, I have an idea of who should pay for it: the Carolina Panthers. And if the Carolina Panthers can't afford it on their own, maybe they should do what small business owners do and take out a loan with a bank.
 
2013-01-30 02:42:58 AM

Serious Black: If the Carolina Panthers want to renovate their stadium, I have an idea of who should pay for it: the Carolina Panthers. And if the Carolina Panthers can't afford it on their own, maybe they should do what small business owners do and take out a loan with a bank.


If they only knew a bank to talk to about geting a loan...
 
2013-01-30 02:48:01 AM
17 years is too old now?

Speaking as a fan of the Packers (Lambeau Field opened 1957), Cubs (Wrigley Field opened 1914), and Aston Villa (Villa Park opened 1897), kindly go fark yourself.
 
2013-01-30 02:59:03 AM

Allen262: Serious Black: If the Carolina Panthers want to renovate their stadium, I have an idea of who should pay for it: the Carolina Panthers. And if the Carolina Panthers can't afford it on their own, maybe they should do what small business owners do and take out a loan with a bank.

If they only knew a bank to talk to about getting a loan...


nah, if they have to deal with BOA, they'll get farked and then illegally foreclosed upon...
 
2013-01-30 03:02:14 AM

A Fark Handle: also, i would love to see the breakdown on those "4,400 direct jobs" claimed. shiatty seasonal employment selling beer for minimum wage isn't exactly the community building jobs that supporters of the "stadiums create jobs" bullshiat have sold the public. of course the public is stupid.


Most of those jobs are to build the stadium. When the stadium is complete, the jobs go away.

China pulls the new-stadium stunt on third-world countries all the time. They love it. Some poor country gets offered a new national stadium on China's dime. The price is that China gets to use its own people, disregard local labor laws, and also if you could cease to recognize Taiwan as a sovereign nation and make some other national policy changes to China's liking, that'd be peachy keen. They don't tell the country that roads or schools or hospitals would be of much better use to the country and that a stadium is functionally worthless as far as actually bettering a nation's lot in life, but then, doing that would make it harder to bring the country under China's political thumb, and harder to keep them under China's thumb because then they might actually better themselves and want to change their policies back to what they were in the first place.
 
2013-01-30 03:05:53 AM
...it occurs to me that that last paragraph might want to have a source or something.
 
2013-01-30 03:17:07 AM

L.D. Ablo: The NFL isn't here as a negotiating tool.


Wrong. They arent here as nobody has built a place for a team to play.Yet.
I kinda like the downtown stadium idea, as I can drive to NoHO from my part of ventura county and subway it the rest of the way.
Dont get me wrong- I love the Coliseum for USC games, but its not good for the nfl. Ditto the rose bowl.
Build a place to play, not on the publics' dime, and we will get a team . Hopefully, we will get the chargers back.
 
2013-01-30 03:21:02 AM

L.D. Ablo: The NFL (and other pro leagues) have an anti-trust exemption and lotsa tax breaks.  Fark those guys.  If they want improvements, they can pay for them.  They're rolling in cash.  Taxpayers shouldn't give them a dime.  That's why I don't give a fark about pro leagues.  I don't go to their overpriced games and won't follow them.


And now not only do they have full absolution of responsibility for the cities they live, they also want full absolution of responsibility for the people they employ.

They are, in short, everything a corporatist entity wishes it could be...and they got there through means that, if used in any other branch of life, would be immediately decried as socialism.
 
2013-01-30 03:26:41 AM
There's always going to be a town somewhere who's a sucker enough to give a sports team everything they want. It's a scam, pure and simple. I don't care how much you like Sport Whatever or Team Your Town, they're using you as a chump if they're demanding municipal funds or tax breaks.
 
2013-01-30 04:09:20 AM
Move them to Chicago, this area could easily support a second NFL team.
 
2013-01-30 04:10:14 AM

alienated: L.D. Ablo: The NFL isn't here as a negotiating tool.

Wrong. They arent here as nobody has built a place for a team to play.Yet.
I kinda like the downtown stadium idea, as I can drive to NoHO from my part of ventura county and subway it the rest of the way.
Dont get me wrong- I love the Coliseum for USC games, but its not good for the nfl. Ditto the rose bowl.
Build a place to play, not on the publics' dime, and we will get a team . Hopefully, we will get the chargers back.


Oh, please.  The NFL could easily take up in the Coliseum or Rose Bowl.

Both have handled Superbowls and pro teams.  There's no reason either couldn't hose a franchise.
 
2013-01-30 04:12:19 AM
WTF? where in the hell does the ownership thknk they could move the panthers?
 
2013-01-30 04:37:16 AM

L.D. Ablo: alienated: L.D. Ablo: The NFL isn't here as a negotiating tool.

Wrong. They arent here as nobody has built a place for a team to play.Yet.
I kinda like the downtown stadium idea, as I can drive to NoHO from my part of ventura county and subway it the rest of the way.
Dont get me wrong- I love the Coliseum for USC games, but its not good for the nfl. Ditto the rose bowl.
Build a place to play, not on the publics' dime, and we will get a team . Hopefully, we will get the chargers back.

Oh, please.  The NFL could easily take up in the Coliseum or Rose Bowl.

Both have handled Superbowls and pro teams.  There's no reason either couldn't hose a franchise.


Really ? You do know there is not enough parking at either place, right ? The golf course dont count in Pasadena. Not to mention that seating sucks at both places.
Key word that you stated is handled. thats past tense. Neither can handle it now, and come on- both places are dumps. I watched the kings at the forum since 81, and it was allso a dump then.Would you like to see the kings play at staples, la sports arena or the forum ? This is Los Angeles, mate- we like places to go see sports without peeling tile and urine coated walkways.
 
2013-01-30 05:58:35 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Move them to Chicago, this area could easily support a second NFL team.


You have one?
 
2013-01-30 05:59:48 AM

dickfreckle: Popcorn Johnny: Move them to Chicago, this area could easily support a second NFL team.

You have one?


That was needlessly snarky, but c'mon man, it was wide open. Like you were holding the door for me.

 /Saints fan, so feel free to snark back
 
2013-01-30 06:09:35 AM

dickfreckle: dickfreckle: Popcorn Johnny: Move them to Chicago, this area could easily support a second NFL team.

You have one?

That was needlessly snarky, but c'mon man, it was wide open. Like you were holding the door for me.

 /Saints fan, so feel free to snark back


At least the Saints have won a Super Bowl recently.

/the Chiefs do not count as a real team right now
 
2013-01-30 06:09:46 AM
The owners should say they want to rename it Dale Earnhardt Memorial Stadium and change the team name to the Intimidators. The referendum would pass with 115% of the vote.
 
2013-01-30 06:29:00 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Move them to Chicago, this area could easily support a second NFL team.


Lovey as HC and Rivera as DC?
 
2013-01-30 06:44:40 AM
The owner of the Atlanta Falcons is trying the same BS in Atlanta citing a potential move to Los Angeles as a reason why the city should offer up $300 million dollars of a $1.0 billion retractable roof stadium. Never mind that the Georgia Dome (their current home) is less than twenty years old and has been renovated in the past decade or that all profits from the stadium would go for him. Even better is that the few hundred million in infrastructure improvements that would be needed to support the new stadium that would be solely the responsibility of the city.

Granted, 30% public funding is better than 50% or 100%, but attempting to extort the taxpayer for 30% of something we don't need in the first place is still a bad deal.
 
2013-01-30 06:57:56 AM

SniperJoe: The owner of the Atlanta Falcons is trying the same BS in Atlanta citing a potential move to Los Angeles as a reason why the city should offer up $300 million dollars of a $1.0 billion retractable roof stadium. Never mind that the Georgia Dome (their current home) is less than twenty years old and has been renovated in the past decade or that all profits from the stadium would go for him. Even better is that the few hundred million in infrastructure improvements that would be needed to support the new stadium that would be solely the responsibility of the city.

Granted, 30% public funding is better than 50% or 100%, but attempting to extort the taxpayer for 30% of something we don't need in the first place is still a bad deal.


100% public funding at least lets the city/state control what else goes on at the stadium. And get the money from those events.

MD owns M&T Bank an gets the proceeds from things like the X-Games, Manchester United friendlies, college lacrosse, or state Football championships play there.
 
2013-01-30 07:00:34 AM
The NFL has to be shaking in their boots worried that a team might actually move to LA ruining the threat for the other half dozen teams trying to get new stadiums.
 
2013-01-30 07:39:30 AM
But, Panthers are so popular in the Carolinas! Oh wait.
 
2013-01-30 07:40:21 AM
Meh, it's not like Charlotte doesn't have a history of handing out money on stuff like this like Rockefeller handed out dimes to kids. To lure the Bobcats the city built a brand new arena in the middle of uptown AFTER holding a "non-binding referendum" where 57% of the voters opposed the arena. Then there's the NASCAR Hall of Fame that was built with something like $300 million of public money.

The city typically increases the hotel/motel room tax to raise the money to pay off the bonds and justifies it under the guise that the money (by NC law) has to be spent on tourism related activities. Of course, the tax revenues coming in later aren't enough to make the payments so general funds are used. (This year may be an exception after the DNC convention). The NASCAR Hall is millions in the red.

Council already passed the prepared food & beverage tax 7-2, but needs state approval for it to go in to effect. So in reality half the money has already been raised.
 
2013-01-30 07:43:59 AM
images.quickblogcast.com

/ has heard this before
 
2013-01-30 07:52:15 AM

borg: 2013 is the 49ers last season in San Francisco.  They're moving 39 mils south to Santa Clara.


Ok. ?
 
2013-01-30 08:04:10 AM

L.D. Ablo:
You sound like a butthurt New Yorker.

Include outlying cities in Los Angeles County and Orange County, and the area is easily the biggest city in the United States.


Wrong.

/Not a New Yorker

Serious Black:

/the Chiefs do not count as a real team right now


They changed everything that the fans asked for and got arguably the biggest coach and GM names on the market- what else (besides whatever happens in free agency and the draft, which we can't judge yet, of course) did you want them to do?

In regards to the stadium issue, I'm with the consensus here- there should be little (if any) taxpayer involvement, and if there is, the people that pay it should get perks like first access to tickets, discounted concessions/parking, etc. The vast majority of cities that can host these teams don't have the spare revenue floating around.
 
2013-01-30 08:07:45 AM
Make ya a deal: You want public money, your bookkeeping and finances, of the football organization, any of its derivative or affiliated organizations or "charities," and personal records of any owner or part owner, must be made public before you get it, and left public after you take it. Let's see just how much money you claim you don't have first, ok?

Oh, wait, what's that? You don't need free help from the taxpayers any more? How surprising!
 
2013-01-30 08:09:10 AM

Incorrigible Astronaut: Serious Black:

/the Chiefs do not count as a real team right now

They changed everything that the fans asked for and got arguably the biggest coach and GM names on the market- what else (besides whatever happens in free agency and the draft, which we can't judge yet, of course) did you want them to do?


They haven't played a game since hiring Andy Reid and John Dorsey. I'm waiting to rule until after at least one regular season game...more likely most of a season.
 
2013-01-30 08:25:39 AM

Serious Black: Incorrigible Astronaut: Serious Black:

/the Chiefs do not count as a real team right now

They changed everything that the fans asked for and got arguably the biggest coach and GM names on the market- what else (besides whatever happens in free agency and the draft, which we can't judge yet, of course) did you want them to do?

They haven't played a game since hiring Andy Reid and John Dorsey. I'm waiting to rule until after at least one regular season game...more likely most of a season.


I'd argue that (barring a complete 3-13 disaster of a season or worse) it takes two years. I'm just saying that they got rid of the two (three, really, if you count how adamant they've been about getting two new QBs) biggest problems, so there's reason to believe that they're better than "not a real team."
 
2013-01-30 08:27:15 AM

mr_a: I hear you calling, Los Angeles.


The NFL, with is basically the owners, do not want a team in LA. If they were get a team there how will they leverage any threats about GIMME MONEY OR WE'RE LEAVING!!!
 
2013-01-30 08:35:08 AM

Gosling: 17 years is too old now?

Speaking as a fan of the Packers (Lambeau Field opened 1957),


"By the end of the 1990s, the Packers believed that they needed to update the facility to remain financially competitive in the NFL. Rather than build a new stadium, Chairman/CEO Bob Harlan and President/COO John Jones unveiled a $295 million plan to renovate Lambeau Field in January 2000. It was to be paid for partly by the team via the 1997-98 stock sale, which netted more than $20 million. Most of the proceeds were to be paid through a 0.5% sales tax in Brown County and personal seat license fees on season ticket holders. After their plan won approval by the Wisconsin State Legislature, it was ratified by Brown County voters on September 12, 2000 by a 53%-47% margin. Construction began early in 2001."

"In 2010, plans were announced by the Green Bay Packers to install new high definition scoreboards in place of their current scoreboards; plans for a new sound system were announced as well.[14] Later the plans were expanded to include adding as many as 7,500 seats both inside and outside as well as viewing platforms and lounge areas. On May 5, 2011 the Packers sent out an online survey to 30,000 season-ticket holders, club-seat holders and individuals on the season-ticket waiting list to get feedback from the fans on several concepts being considered for the south end-zone development. On August 25, 2011 plans were officially announced to add 6,500 new seats to the south end zone. The seats will be made up of heated bleacher areas that will melt snow as it falls (a concept tested on a small scale during winter 2010). This concept will solve the logistical problem of shoveling snow from an "upper deck" seating area. (Currently, the snow that falls is shoveled by compensated volunteers from the community. The snow is placed on temporary chutes placed in the aisles and runs down the chutes into carts on the field. The carts are then taken out of the stadium.)"

Cubs (Wrigley Field opened 1914),

"First and foremost, Kenney and the rest of the panel held no punches when talking about the current state of the ballpark. "As Dale [Sveum] said yesterday and almost every player that joins us [says]," Kenney said, "our facilities for our players are the worst in Major League Baseball." With that in mind, the first step in the process - which is expected to span over five offseasons and cost somewhere in the range of $300 - will be to update and upgrade the player facilities."

and Aston Villa (Villa Park opened 1897),


Aston Villa have initial planning permission to rebuild the North Stand in the same style as the Trinity Road Stand. Owner Randy Lerner has expressed his support for increased capacity as average attendances increased. When completed, the capacity of Villa Park will increase to around 50,000.[42][43] As of the start of the 2010 season, designs are at a conceptual stage and due to a "multi-year effort to consider business and supporter needs" there is no defined date for construction to start.[44] In the meantime, the entrance to the North Stand, "R Block", has been redecorated inside and out. The facelift has seen the curved fascia above the turnstiles replaced with cladding and canopies similar to those in front of the Holte Suite. The "R Block" concourse has also been expanded to create a larger, brighter open space.

kindly go fark yourself.

Ballparks age, and they all need some degree of major renovations. Some use public money, some do not.
 
2013-01-30 08:37:53 AM

Incorrigible Astronaut: Serious Black: Incorrigible Astronaut: Serious Black:

/the Chiefs do not count as a real team right now

They changed everything that the fans asked for and got arguably the biggest coach and GM names on the market- what else (besides whatever happens in free agency and the draft, which we can't judge yet, of course) did you want them to do?

They haven't played a game since hiring Andy Reid and John Dorsey. I'm waiting to rule until after at least one regular season game...more likely most of a season.

I'd argue that (barring a complete 3-13 disaster of a season or worse) it takes two years. I'm just saying that they got rid of the two (three, really, if you count how adamant they've been about getting two new QBs) biggest problems, so there's reason to believe that they're better than "not a real team."


Sure there is, but I'm a transplant. I didn't grow up cheering for the Chiefs. I don't really have a pro football team that I cheer for above all others right now.
 
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