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(StarAfrica)   You probably have more money in the bank than the entire government of Zimbabwe   (en.starafrica.com) divider line 31
    More: Amusing, Zimbabwe, government of Zimbabwe, Harare, international sanctions, South African rand  
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9565 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2013 at 12:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-30 03:13:08 AM
5 votes:
Zimbabwe will be much better off when Mugabe (and his political friends) is gone. It'll also be better off when the farmland isn't in the hands of a small number of landowners who have inherited it over the years from the colonial ancestors that took it by force. The white farmers like to claim they only have a very small percentage of Zimbabwe's land, which is true. What they leave out is that the have most of the arable land.

Botswana next door has gone from being one of the poorest countries in the world at the time of their independence to a county with a per capita GDP equal to some part of the US (crappy parts of the US but still, quite an accomplishment in a relatively short period of time). Zimbabwe probably could too but like so many countries after colonization ended, the resulting power vacuum allowed a terrible leader to take power. In most of the other countries, those leaders have since been replaced and the countries are on a path to a better place (most of them anyway).

But Mugabe has held on and that sucks for Zimbabwe. When he loses power, probably by death, even if the country ended up with good leadership, the land issue would still have to be resolved. Not an easy thing to do now that the white farmers have held on to it for so long. From their perspective, they were born in Zimbabwe and have as much right to property ownership as any other citizen. Of course that's an easy position to take when stolen land has been handed down to you through generations.

The best thing might be for the government to take ownership of the land but lease it back to the white farmers at a good rate with the understanding that the leases over time will be bid out to everyone. This gives those with the expertise to farm the land that feeds the country a chance to transition to a country not built on theft by white ancestors nor racism by Mugabe and friends. Not sure if this is actually possible given how deep the tensions between the groups goes.
2013-01-30 12:51:23 AM
5 votes:
So they have 16 trillion more in their bank than the US does....
2013-01-30 01:37:49 AM
3 votes:

super_grass: Because seizing stolen land property from your former oppressors and giving it back to your people is wrong.
Not having capital after they flee the country with a good chunk wealth and knowledge is wrong.
Not having skilled management because you were systematically barred from government and education is wrong.
Having a hard time with autonomy self-rule after it was taken away from you for more than a generation is wrong.


As I understand it, the people whose land he "seized" were citizens of Zimbabwe. The British stopped helping the government buy it back from voluntary sellers after they realized Mugabe was using the land to enrich his cronies, not the people, and a referendum to pass legislation to seize the land through a legal process was rejected. That was when Mugabe used his thugs to start storming white-owned farms, not for transfer to the people but to his elite supporters.

Later, he took to bulldozing the homes of tens of thousands of the urban poor as part of a claimed effort to drive them into the countryside in order to force them to learn subsistence farming to resolve the famine caused by turning the farms into his party goons' personal palaces. In reality, the urban poor hate his guts and he just wanted to hurt them for opposing him.

Don't even farking try, dude. This is not "having a hard time with autonomy". Mugabe is an evil motherfarker who has disregarded his own people and intentionally inflicted far greater horrors on his country than the colonial British ever did, however wrong they were.
2013-01-30 12:08:08 AM
3 votes:
"Zimbabwe's economy went into free-fall at the turn of the millennium, after President Robert Mugabe began seizing white-owned farms. The move demolished investor confidence in the country, paralysed production, prompted international sanctions and scared off tourists."

So, how's that racism workin out for ya?
2013-01-30 02:43:39 AM
2 votes:

stonent: So they have 16 trillion more in their bank than the US does....


Came here to say this!
2013-01-30 01:44:28 AM
2 votes:

super_grass: Yup, a wealthy ruling class should not be toppled, and if they do get knocked down a few pegs, they should have full rights to empty the country and flee overseas. After all, it't only fair, right?

Does that servile mind of yours ever think that maybe, just MAYBE, that there could be a group of parasites whose ill-gotten wealth was created through exclusion, nepotism, whose only reason for existence is because they created a chokehold on a fe specializations?


Mugabe's land reforms were not some populist, workers of the world unite, union strong gesture. He relocated and/or tortured and murdered the competent black farm workers right alongside the white owners. Most Zimbabweans opposed the policies.

He took the wealth *away* from the people of his country, gave it to his own elite ruling class of relatives and henchmen, and let it go to ruin. What part of this do you not get?
2013-01-30 12:52:53 AM
2 votes:

mexican bathtub cheese: And we just reelected the idiot who is trying to inflict the same economic policies on the United States.

Have a good look, it's where we're headed.


Obama's trying to seize all white owned farm land?
Pssst the stock market is at an all time high, and investor confidence is growing.
2013-01-30 12:47:56 AM
2 votes:
And we just reelected the idiot who is trying to inflict the same economic policies on the United States.

Have a good look, it's where we're headed.
2013-01-30 02:14:24 PM
1 votes:

stonent: So they have 16 trillion more in their bank than the US does....


Came here to say that. At least Zimbabwe has a surplus compared to a $17T deficit.
2013-01-30 04:32:14 AM
1 votes:
They're running a surplus, which is more than the US can say.
2013-01-30 03:29:47 AM
1 votes:

GUTSU: Especially when you force out all the rich, white, educated people.


Zimbabwe had a good number of rich black people. Only problem is, a good many took one look at Mugabe and were on the first flight out. Yes the people native to Zimbabwe left before the whites did.
2013-01-30 03:28:33 AM
1 votes:
super_grass: Because seizing stolen land property from your former oppressors and giving it back to your people is wrong.
Not having capital after they flee the country with a good chunk wealth and knowledge is wrong.
Not having skilled management because you were systematically barred from government and education is wrong.
Having a hard time with autonomy self-rule after it was taken away from you for more than a generation is wrong.

freewill: As I understand it, the people whose land he "seized" were citizens of Zimbabwe. The British stopped helping the government buy it back from voluntary sellers after they realized Mugabe was using the land to enrich his cronies, not the people, and a referendum to pass legislation to seize the land through a legal process was rejected. That was when Mugabe used his thugs to start storming white-owned farms, not for transfer to the people but to his elite supporters.

Later, he took to bulldozing the homes of tens of thousands of the urban poor as part of a claimed effort to drive them into the countryside in order to force them to learn subsistence farming to resolve the famine caused by turning the farms into his party goons' personal palaces. In reality, the urban poor hate his guts and he just wanted to hurt them for opposing him.

Don't even farking try, dude. This is not "having a hard time with autonomy". Mugabe is an evil motherfarker who has disregarded his own people and intentionally inflicted far greater horrors on his country than the colonial British ever did, however wrong they were.


Yup. Seizing the farms "for black Zimbabweans" was paying off the cops to declare you a "true Zimbabwean" and escort you over there with guns to seize it.

Well, the thing was, this isn't like stealing an oil well where wealth just changes hands. The people who seized it had no expertise or desire to farm, they just wanted some land, something to sell. Productivity stopped, it's not like you could work with a bank or equipment vendors or food processors, they had no business experience and were thieves. I assume many just sold off anything of value.

So basically they might see a "rich" neighbor with a $20M farm being all selfish and bourgeois, decided to seize it to even things out, and got about $20,000 of real estate value and equipment liquidation out of it. Bottom line, most of the "wealth" just dissolved as it was permanently scrapped for pennies on the dollar. The wealth of the nation was basically gone, not simply taken.

.
2013-01-30 03:06:10 AM
1 votes:

coeyagi: freewill: super_grass: Yup, a wealthy ruling class should not be toppled, and if they do get knocked down a few pegs, they should have full rights to empty the country and flee overseas. After all, it't only fair, right?

Does that servile mind of yours ever think that maybe, just MAYBE, that there could be a group of parasites whose ill-gotten wealth was created through exclusion, nepotism, whose only reason for existence is because they created a chokehold on a fe specializations?

Mugabe's land reforms were not some populist, workers of the world unite, union strong gesture. He relocated and/or tortured and murdered the competent black farm workers right alongside the white owners. Most Zimbabweans opposed the policies.

He took the wealth *away* from the people of his country, gave it to his own elite ruling class of relatives and henchmen, and let it go to ruin. What part of this do you not get?

The part that doesn't jive with his impenetrable narrative. Otherwise known as "all of it".


Dunno if using it incorrectly is a farkism but....

The word you meant to use is "jibe" (look it up)

"Jive" is what blacksploitation movie pimps speak.
2013-01-30 01:40:54 AM
1 votes:

super_grass: coeyagi: super_grass: RabidJade: super_grass:
Because seizing stolen land property from your former oppressors and giving it back to your people is wrong.
Not having capital after they flee the country with a good chunk wealth and knowledge is wrong.
Not having skilled management because you were systematically barred from government and education is wrong.
Having a hard time with autonomy self-rule after it was taken away from you for more than a generation is wrong.

Clearly, Zimbabwe should have stayed with the status quo. You might be a second-class citizen in your own land, but at least the upper crust gets to run everything, right?

Because fighting oppression with oppression always works out in the end? Let's give out formerly productive and fertile farmland as a reward to someone who hasn't did anything with their life other than killings others. Breadbasket to food aid queen in a matter of years, guaranteed!

You must be in favor of Monarchies and CEO bonuses.

Guess what? Zimbabwe followed through with killing/eating the rich and now they have no more masters. I guess that's less important than a well-pampered lapdog of you masters though...

This is some magical reasoning. It's justified to get rid of the masters at the threat of death, but man, what assholes they are for taking their wealth with them!

Please proceed, governor. Still waiting for someone to back you.

Yup, a wealthy ruling class should not be toppled, and if they do get knocked down a few pegs, they should have full rights to empty the country and flee overseas. After all, it't only fair, right?

Does that servile mind of yours ever think that maybe, just MAYBE, that there could be a group of parasites whose ill-gotten wealth was created through exclusion, nepotism, whose only reason for existence is because they created a chokehold on a fe specializations?


Yeah, um, that's what Mugabe did. Gave the money to his cronies. The white farmers were citizens of Zimbabwe. They had lived there for generations. The British government was out. People told Mugabe this would happen, if he seized the land. He did it anyway. Where is your condemnation for him?

Do you even have one bit of understanding of history?
2013-01-30 01:38:18 AM
1 votes:

super_grass: viscountalpha: super_grass: Colonialism and centuries of oppression by the west has rendered a nation unable to fend for itself or manage its finances and now we're looking down on them?

It takes a special kind of ignorance and assholery to do that.

"Zimbabwe's economy went into free-fall at the turn of the millennium, after President Robert Mugabe began seizing white-owned farms."

What part of THEY DID IT TO THEMSELVES DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

The ignorance is on you. Learn to read.

Because seizing stolen land property from your former oppressors and giving it back to your people is wrong.
Not having capital after they flee the country with a good chunk wealth and knowledge is wrong.
Not having skilled management because you were systematically barred from government and education is wrong.
Having a hard time with autonomy self-rule after it was taken away from you for more than a generation is wrong.

Clearly, Zimbabwe should have stayed with the status quo. You might be a second-class citizen in your own land, but at least the upper crust gets to run everything, right?


I don't defend any of the incorrect policies that the white people might of had in zimbabwe but murdering and stealing is completely justifiable right?

And now it's destabilized the entire country.

You really are a complete ignorant fark and I'm done with you.
2013-01-30 01:27:10 AM
1 votes:

coeyagi: super_grass: coeyagi: super_grass: Colonialism and centuries of oppression by the west has rendered a nation unable to fend for itself or manage its finances and now we're looking down on them?

It takes a special kind of ignorance and assholery to do that.

And yet other countries, while still poor, aren't in such dire straits. But yes, it was TOTALLY all the West's fault.

Also, you can't even call it "centuries". The colonial era of Zimbabwe was 1888-1965. That's not even 1 century, bro.

You should go have a seat... somewhere else.

Yup, because you can't do any damage in less than a century and the destruction of indigenous institutions will take less than half that time.

Smart. Very smart.

A) I didn't say they didn't do any damage. So, you're wrong there.
B) You claimed it was centuries. I proved you wrong there too.
C) The article even states that their economic freefall was mainly due to Mugabe. So, strike 3.

Keep going bro, someone is bound to defend you.

//Hint: To have that happen, you should create an ALT and then defend yourself with your cool new alter ego.



A) You focused on how Zimbabwe didn't technically suffer from colonialism for a full magical century, but you're not trying to downplay its effect?
B) You assumed that my point was how long the country was a colony, that couldn't be farther from the truth. And you can't be subjugated unless you're an official colony? Good to know.
C) I never mentioned Mugabe, but good straw man. I said that Zimbabwe's dire situation was largely caused by colonialism and racial suppression.

And projecting your fark browsing habits on others isn't going to help you a single bit. A little extra work on reading comprehension might though.
2013-01-30 01:21:04 AM
1 votes:
When that country was still Rhodesia, I almost signed up as recruit for a mercenary outfit going over there. If the good guys had won, I was supposed to had gotten enough land to start my own farm there as a bonus.

Good thing I didn't though.
2013-01-30 01:20:17 AM
1 votes:
I don't see what's so funny. That would mean Zimbabwe has about 17 trillion more dollars than the US.
2013-01-30 01:17:33 AM
1 votes:

viscountalpha: super_grass: Colonialism and centuries of oppression by the west has rendered a nation unable to fend for itself or manage its finances and now we're looking down on them?

It takes a special kind of ignorance and assholery to do that.

"Zimbabwe's economy went into free-fall at the turn of the millennium, after President Robert Mugabe began seizing white-owned farms."

What part of THEY DID IT TO THEMSELVES DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

The ignorance is on you. Learn to read.


Because seizing stolen land property from your former oppressors and giving it back to your people is wrong.
Not having capital after they flee the country with a good chunk wealth and knowledge is wrong.
Not having skilled management because you were systematically barred from government and education is wrong.
Having a hard time with autonomy self-rule after it was taken away from you for more than a generation is wrong.

Clearly, Zimbabwe should have stayed with the status quo. You might be a second-class citizen in your own land, but at least the upper crust gets to run everything, right?
2013-01-30 01:09:19 AM
1 votes:

mexican bathtub cheese: coeyagi: mexican bathtub cheese: coeyagi: mexican bathtub cheese: And we just reelected the idiot who is trying to inflict the same economic policies on the United States.

Have a good look, it's where we're headed.

He is trying to get rid of white farmers? Got a link?

Yes, the guns and bibles crowd. Or maybe you forgot about that one.

What economic horrors has he levied against them?

Not too fast, I need to get some popcorn first...

Oh and don't forget "you didn't build that". It's a real crowd pleaser with people who actually work for a living, something Obama has never done.


Are you a troll, or just one of the morons that keep repeating line that out of context?
Thanks for the election by the way. You guys helped us more than you'll ever have the reasoning power to realize.
2013-01-30 01:07:56 AM
1 votes:
At least they're in the black. That's a few trillion more than the US has when you figure in our debt.

I know Zimbabwe has outstanding debts, too. Just making a point that the US is far deeper in the hole.
2013-01-30 01:07:33 AM
1 votes:

super_grass: Colonialism and centuries of oppression by the west has rendered a nation unable to fend for itself or manage its finances and now we're looking down on them?

It takes a special kind of ignorance and assholery to do that.


"Zimbabwe's economy went into free-fall at the turn of the millennium, after President Robert Mugabe began seizing white-owned farms."

What part of THEY DID IT TO THEMSELVES DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

The ignorance is on you. Learn to read.
2013-01-30 01:04:58 AM
1 votes:

GUTSU: Bondith: The comments are an interesting blend of outright racism and religioderp, which a leavening of RANDOM CAPSLOCK thrown in for good measure.

Well when the ANC's demand that white farmers turn over their land, money, and daughters... I can see where they might get a bit flustered, especially if one of their neighbors had just been butchered with machetes.
http://www.genocidewatch.org/zimbabwe.html


Nothing on that page mentioned daughters, and the ANC is a South African party and not Zimbabwean, but apart from pedantic quibbling I see your point.

However, I still think the "AFRICA, turn back to GOD and WHITE PEOPLE" guy needs to dial back a bit and maybe learn the correct use of capital letters.
2013-01-30 01:03:31 AM
1 votes:

coeyagi: mexican bathtub cheese: coeyagi: mexican bathtub cheese: And we just reelected the idiot who is trying to inflict the same economic policies on the United States.

Have a good look, it's where we're headed.

He is trying to get rid of white farmers? Got a link?

Yes, the guns and bibles crowd. Or maybe you forgot about that one.

What economic horrors has he levied against them?

Not too fast, I need to get some popcorn first...


Oh and don't forget "you didn't build that". It's a real crowd pleaser with people who actually work for a living, something Obama has never done.
2013-01-30 01:02:32 AM
1 votes:
I just realized... The Kochs want to buy the US, but obviously haven't figured it out quite yet. Has anyone suggested they just buy Zimbabwe instead? It would probably be way cheaper.
2013-01-30 12:59:57 AM
1 votes:
FTA: "After more than a decade - in which the country suffered hyper-inflation of 231 million percent and infrastructure that crumbled as quickly as prices went up - the situation is now more stable."

I'm pretty sure that was just the last official statistic before they quit counting. Some estimates ran as high as 6,000,000,000,000,000,000,000%, which I believe is pronounced "six kerplillion".

moothemagiccow: Zimbabwe had tourists?


They used to have a wonderful wildlife preserve, until they were forced to eat all the animals.

/ I seem to recall this being an actual quote from the country's Tourism Minister.
2013-01-30 12:57:52 AM
1 votes:
Colonialism and centuries of oppression by the west has rendered a nation unable to fend for itself or manage its finances and now we're looking down on them?

It takes a special kind of ignorance and assholery to do that.
2013-01-30 12:54:58 AM
1 votes:

mexican bathtub cheese: And we just reelected the idiot who is trying to inflict the same economic policies on the United States.

Have a good look, it's where we're headed.


He's going to take all the white-owned farms and give them back to the Indians?
2013-01-30 12:52:16 AM
1 votes:

mexican bathtub cheese: And we just reelected the idiot who is trying to inflict the same economic policies on the United States.

Have a good look, it's where we're headed.


He is trying to get rid of white farmers? Got a link?
2013-01-30 12:44:31 AM
1 votes:

TommyymmoT: "Zimbabwe's economy went into free-fall at the turn of the millennium, after President Robert Mugabe began seizing white-owned farms. The move demolished investor confidence in the country, paralysed production, prompted international sanctions and scared off tourists."

So, how's that racism workin out for ya?


During the cold war, Rhodesia had a stronger currency than the USD. But as a consolation, it must be nice to be on the "Do not travel" list, and to be able to spend 100,000,000,000 on a couple of eggs.
2013-01-30 12:38:38 AM
1 votes:
I probably have more money in my shoe than the entire government of Zimbabwe.
 
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