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(Smithsonian Magazine)   Geologists wandering Siberia find a family living 150 miles from anything. And boy do those people miss salt   (smithsonianmag.com) divider line 183
    More: Interesting, WWII, Siberia, Peter the Great, Russians  
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22237 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2013 at 5:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-30 07:08:48 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: miss diminutive: The scientist in me finds this story fascinating and wonders how such extreme isolation would alter group dynamics and social hierarchies.

The pampered consumerist in me finds this story appalling and wonders what those women used for tampons.

Seals, what else would you use in the Arctic.


Cherokee hair.
 
2013-01-30 07:09:49 AM
Damn. Too late.
 
2013-01-30 07:12:04 AM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: That was incredibly depressing.

These aren't some wild animals where you have to watch with stoicism as their young get eaten by predators. These are human beings. If they don't want to be airlifted out of there to save their lives, fark 'em! They're clearly not thinking straight, since they've lived out in the woods for decades. Save their lives now, and deal with the emotional fallout later.


Why? As you said, they aren't wild animals, so they get a choice. You don't get to make that choice for them. If they want to stay, I say let them. Drop them some cheap supplies if you want, and maybe try to gradually convince them it's better in Modern Russia, but if they want to die there, that's ultimately their choice.
 
2013-01-30 07:12:19 AM

Martin The Mess: Minecraft survival-mode LARPing before it was cool. But it's a lot harder to create an elaborate underground base when a single swing of a pick doesn't cleanly remove a cubic meter of solid rock, and you can't carry thousands of tons of rock in your pockets at once.


Also makes it harder to build a giant wang of solid gold...

/You better get the reference...
 
2013-01-30 07:13:20 AM

david_gaithersburg: Interesting article reminding us of the dangers posed by so-called-progressives.


yeah, blame Peter The Great, why don't you
 
2013-01-30 07:15:57 AM

soundguy: miss diminutive: The scientist in me finds this story fascinating and wonders how such extreme isolation would alter group dynamics and social hierarchies.

The pampered consumerist in me finds this story appalling and wonders what those women used for tampons.

------

Birch bark?


More like БИТЧ Bark, am I right fellas?
 
2013-01-30 07:23:14 AM
Reminds me of my college days, readking anthropological studies.

People are weird.
 
2013-01-30 07:24:42 AM
There are a lot of Old Believers still left, around the coasts of Lake Peipsi, between Estonia and Russia. I can't even try to explain the difference between the regular Russian Orthodox faith and them; all I know it exists.

One of the unintended negative consquences of Estonia regaining independence in 1991 was the border between the states. Now travel between the countries is much more difficult (really, because Russia insists on being dicks), and the Old Believers have their population split in half.

I don't think they'll exist much longer, as the young tend to leave for the cities. Nice folks, though. I buy rugs, smoked fish, onions, and the sort every time I am in the area.
 
2013-01-30 07:26:06 AM
If you can remember the 70's you weren't really there.
 
2013-01-30 07:29:15 AM

LewDux: david_gaithersburg: Interesting article reminding us of the dangers posed by so-called-progressives.

yeah, blame Peter The Great, why don't you


.
FTFA

"During the purges of the 1930s, with Christianity itself under assault, a Communist patrol had shot Lykov's brother on the outskirts of their village while Lykov knelt working beside him. He had responded by scooping up his family and bolting into forest."

I do not mean to offend anyone with facts, I'm just trying to stop people from repeating a horrid and bloody very recent history. I believe that education is the best defense against ignorance.
 
2013-01-30 07:33:16 AM

Mart Laar's beard shaver: There are a lot of Old Believers still left, around the coasts of Lake Peipsi


No Peipsi. Coke.
 
2013-01-30 07:33:44 AM

LewDux: david_gaithersburg: Interesting article reminding us of the dangers posed by so-called-progressives.

yeah, blame Peter The Great, why don't you


The split which produced the Old Believers came about before Peter was on the throne, right?
 
2013-01-30 07:40:35 AM

Mart Laar's beard shaver: I can't even try to explain the difference between the regular Russian Orthodox faith and them; all I know it exists.


Their priests drink more?
 
2013-01-30 07:42:03 AM

david_gaithersburg: LewDux: david_gaithersburg: Interesting article reminding us of the dangers posed by so-called-progressives.

yeah, blame Peter The Great, why don't you

.
FTFA

"During the purges of the 1930s, with Christianity itself under assault, a Communist patrol had shot Lykov's brother on the outskirts of their village while Lykov knelt working beside him. He had responded by scooping up his family and bolting into forest."

I do not mean to offend anyone with facts, I'm just trying to stop people from repeating a horrid and bloody very recent history. I believe that education is the best defense against ignorance.


And the facts you bring up would not offend anyone were it not for your (implied) comparison of Western Progressive movements to Stalin's version of Communism. I, too, believe that education is the best defense against ignorance and it may do you good to look up the differences between two groups who use similar terms before equating them.
 
2013-01-30 07:46:23 AM

Saberus Terras: Martin The Mess: Minecraft survival-mode LARPing before it was cool. But it's a lot harder to create an elaborate underground base when a single swing of a pick doesn't cleanly remove a cubic meter of solid rock, and you can't carry thousands of tons of rock in your pockets at once.

Also makes it harder to build a giant wang of solid gold...

/You better get the reference...


Goldmember?
 
2013-01-30 07:46:55 AM
Dragging your family 150 miles into the Siberian outback to live cut off from society, in near-fathom conditions with no salt and not much more than birch bark and potatoes for decades is not normal... but on religion, it is.

Religion: Not even once.
 
2013-01-30 07:50:40 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Excellent article, and nice to see that there still exists that kind of isolation today.


It's from 1978.
 
2013-01-30 07:51:27 AM

dittybopper: soundguy: miss diminutive: The scientist in me finds this story fascinating and wonders how such extreme isolation would alter group dynamics and social hierarchies.

The pampered consumerist in me finds this story appalling and wonders what those women used for tampons.

------

Birch bark?

More like БИТЧ Bark, am I right fellas?


snl.jt.org
 
2013-01-30 07:52:05 AM

CthulhuCalling: Saberus Terras: Martin The Mess: Minecraft survival-mode LARPing before it was cool. But it's a lot harder to create an elaborate underground base when a single swing of a pick doesn't cleanly remove a cubic meter of solid rock, and you can't carry thousands of tons of rock in your pockets at once.

Also makes it harder to build a giant wang of solid gold...

/You better get the reference...

Goldmember?


Not quite
 
2013-01-30 07:56:04 AM

david_gaithersburg: the_colors: There are people who don't have david_gaithersburg on ignore? Huh. I quickly get sick of threadshiatters.

Anyway, this was a fascinating read. Farking Russia, man. I guess this is as close as we'll ever get to having time travelers from the past visit our wacky future.

.
Not everyone is afraid of different ideas and open debate. I expect I'll get banned for pointing out that these people fled into the wild to keep from being murdered with the other 20,000,000 people who lost their lives during The Great Purge.


That's not the whole story, though: The Tsars also persecuted Old Believers. Say what you want about religion, but beliefs held that deeply are always a threat to a domineering government - left or right,
 
2013-01-30 07:57:35 AM

eldritch2k4: david_gaithersburg: LewDux: david_gaithersburg: Interesting article reminding us of the dangers posed by so-called-progressives.

yeah, blame Peter The Great, why don't you

.
FTFA

"During the purges of the 1930s, with Christianity itself under assault, a Communist patrol had shot Lykov's brother on the outskirts of their village while Lykov knelt working beside him. He had responded by scooping up his family and bolting into forest."

I do not mean to offend anyone with facts, I'm just trying to stop people from repeating a horrid and bloody very recent history. I believe that education is the best defense against ignorance.

And the facts you bring up would not offend anyone were it not for your (implied) comparison of Western Progressive movements to Stalin's version of Communism. I, too, believe that education is the best defense against ignorance and it may do you good to look up the differences between two groups who use similar terms before equating them.


.
What are the differences?

Similarities:
Both believe that success is to be punished.
Both believe that rights and freedoms should be bestowed to the people by the government.
Both believe in religious intolerance and bigotry.
Both believe in government control of the press.
Both believe in one party political systems.

These are not traits of "Stalin's communism", but communism itself. I'm glad to see that you are willing to admit that the "Western Progressive movements" is communism, we need more of that sort of honesty.

Now please educate me on the differences.
 
2013-01-30 07:59:23 AM
its easier to die in the Siberian wilderness than get into heaven using modern technology common sense?

am i doing this right?
 
2013-01-30 08:01:31 AM

david_gaithersburg: LewDux: david_gaithersburg: Interesting article reminding us of the dangers posed by so-called-progressives.

yeah, blame Peter The Great, why don't you

.
FTFA

"During the purges of the 1930s, with Christianity itself under assault, a Communist patrol had shot Lykov's brother on the outskirts of their village while Lykov knelt working beside him. He had responded by scooping up his family and bolting into forest."

I do not mean to offend anyone with facts, I'm just trying to stop people from repeating a horrid and bloody very recent history. I believe that education is the best defense against ignorance.


Oh, sorry, I thought you were referring to progressive reforms of Peter The Great

for him, Peter was a personal enemy and "the anti-Christ in human form"-a point he insisted had been amply proved by Tsar's campaign to modernize Russia
 
2013-01-30 08:01:53 AM
They apparently had plenty of hemp
 
2013-01-30 08:02:46 AM

KrispyKritter: i found that a very difficult read for their suffering. the murder of the mans brother led them to this paltry existence. i doubt putin's clowns will do the right thing and see to it the family gets to force this family to live out their lives in warmth and comfort with full stomachs and Mtv.


FTFY, or maybe FTF Peter the Great (beard-chopper). People who "know what's best" have a way of dragging folks from one extreme to the other. Best intentions of course, but watch out for unintended consequences. I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't approve.
 
2013-01-30 08:03:24 AM

fusillade762: No word on what they thought of the helicopter the geologists arrived in.


This was my first thought too. I'd be curious what they thought.
 
2013-01-30 08:07:27 AM

cameroncrazy1984: nice to see that there still exists that kind of isolation today.


Nice?  They left to avoid persecution and constantly lived on the edge of famine.  Several of them died of starvation or organ failure.

I find the social dynamics fascinating, though.  In an environment with little margin for error, they usually had just enough talent in the right areas to keep the family alive.  The dude who could walk barefoot in snow and sleep outdoors without dying of exposure was amazing to read about.  Part of me wishes I could've beaten the derp out of the authoritarian guy, but a lot of these neighborhood fatties where I live could use a winter or two in Siberia.
 
mjl
2013-01-30 08:08:00 AM

Deep Contact: Wow, no guns or bows or years of food supplies. What kind of preppers are these people?


Joking apart... Its hard, perhaps impossible, for a small group to make sufficient preparations to last decades of total isolation. Things break, wear, rot, get lost, get used up, medicine has a shelf life.
if your lucky after 20 years you'll be living in the early Industrial Revolution
 
2013-01-30 08:09:17 AM

dittybopper: Mart Laar's beard shaver: There are a lot of Old Believers still left, around the coasts of Lake Peipsi

No Peipsi. Coke.


I'm guessing this is an old joke where you live?
/Um well okay then ; )
 
2013-01-30 08:12:19 AM

KrispyKritter: i found that a very difficult read for their suffering. the murder of the mans brother led them to this paltry existence. i doubt putin's clowns will do the right thing and see to it the family gets to live out their lives in warmth and comfort with full stomachs and Mtv.


We can tell you found it difficult to read, since the story was about finding the family in 1978 and it told what happened to all the family members.
 
2013-01-30 08:17:39 AM

maskedloser: david_gaithersburg: the_colors: There are people who don't have david_gaithersburg on ignore? Huh. I quickly get sick of threadshiatters.

Anyway, this was a fascinating read. Farking Russia, man. I guess this is as close as we'll ever get to having time travelers from the past visit our wacky future.

.
Not everyone is afraid of different ideas and open debate. I expect I'll get banned for pointing out that these people fled into the wild to keep from being murdered with the other 20,000,000 people who lost their lives during The Great Purge.

That's not the whole story, though: The Tsars also persecuted Old Believers. Say what you want about religion, but beliefs held that deeply are always a threat to a domineering government - left or right,


Main problem Tsars had with Old believers is that they were anti-government, and in Tsarist Russia State and Church are united

/In a way Pussy Riot are Old believers too - they believe in seperation of Church and State, unlike Church which pretty much calls Putin a saviour
//A stone will be thrown at the state, and a stone will be thrown at the churches
 
2013-01-30 08:20:13 AM

mjl: Its hard, perhaps impossible, for a small group to make sufficient preparations to last decades of total isolation.


It's the difference between survival (which is to live long enough to GTFO) and settlement.  These people were settlers, and sadly not very good at it (why would they be, they're exiles), though they had the resolve when it counted.

Survival is about making sure you don't run out of supplies.  Settlement requires your own ground-up infrastructure.  The challenge here is that this is Siberia; harsh environments have a higher overhead.
 
2013-01-30 08:21:20 AM
i16.tinypic.com
 
2013-01-30 08:22:50 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: dittybopper: Mart Laar's beard shaver: There are a lot of Old Believers still left, around the coasts of Lake Peipsi

No Peipsi. Coke.

I'm guessing this is an old joke where you live?
/Um well okay then ; )


Yeah. It's an old joke where *WE* come from.
 
2013-01-30 08:23:34 AM

Pvt Joker: [i16.tinypic.com image 320x240]


Actually, don't. It stings. Trust me on this one.
 
2013-01-30 08:23:54 AM

david_gaithersburg: Similarities:
Both believe that success is to be punished.
Both believe that rights and freedoms should be bestowed to the people by the government.
Both believe in religious intolerance and bigotry.
Both believe in government control of the press.
Both believe in one party political systems.


A stunning grasp of post-Industrial Revolution liberalism on display here.

Bro, do you even left?
 
2013-01-30 08:32:18 AM
preposterous.  No credit cards?  No Costco membership?  NO KEURIG? Does Cigna even deliver their 90 days of medications or do they have to WALK to the post office?

Someone ought to teach that old fart how to punch in ON TIME.  Then we'll be talking about TRUE privation.

OTOH, at 6500 feet they must have great reception.
 
2013-01-30 08:35:37 AM

dragonchild: cameroncrazy1984: nice to see that there still exists that kind of isolation today.

Nice?  They left to avoid persecution and constantly lived on the edge of famine.  Several of them died of starvation or organ failure.

I find the social dynamics fascinating, though.  In an environment with little margin for error, they usually had just enough talent in the right areas to keep the family alive.  The dude who could walk barefoot in snow and sleep outdoors without dying of exposure was amazing to read about.  Part of me wishes I could've beaten the derp out of the authoritarian guy, but a lot of these neighborhood fatties where I live could use a winter or two in Siberia.


LOL! I did spend a winter in Siberia. Now I'm fat and happy to be as far away from there as possible; I happen to enjoy food - and by that I mean stuff I don't have to farking trap. I hate the fark out of having to survive on my fancy good looks alone :)

Next time you eat, think on all those people dotted across the wilderness who have to put up with that bullshiat all their poor lives.

It amuses me to no end how many people here rag on how modern tech has softened us up too much. Are you farking kidding me? Kids die all over the world of shiat we can treat with a single shot of vaccine. That is not the path to human success. Here, at least most children can expect to survive their parents and it's considered a tragedy when they don't. There are parts of the world where that isn't true.
 
2013-01-30 08:36:42 AM

david_gaithersburg: Interesting article reminding us of the dangers posed by so-called-progressives.


i18.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-30 08:39:40 AM

dittybopper: tinfoil-hat maggie: dittybopper: Mart Laar's beard shaver: There are a lot of Old Believers still left, around the coasts of Lake Peipsi

No Peipsi. Coke.

I'm guessing this is an old joke where you live?
/Um well okay then ; )

Yeah. It's an old joke where *WE* come from.


LoL, I still liked it, and really ya can't outmatch me on the where "we" come from card : )
 
2013-01-30 08:45:37 AM

jso2897: david_gaithersburg: Interesting article reminding us of the dangers posed by so-called-progressives.

[i18.photobucket.com image 384x400]


I have no idea what that picture has to do with anything but OMG so cute. oh yea thanks for messing with all my maternal feelings, just to play with a troll. Okay I'm sorta kidding, no really I have no maternal feelings.
 
2013-01-30 08:47:14 AM
Interesting read. I read a story about the human experience and, welcome to fark, there are dipshiats in here turning it into a political pissing match. Or really one dipshiat from Floriduh.
 
2013-01-30 08:50:31 AM

david_gaithersburg: I'm glad to see that you are willing to admit that the "Western Progressive movements" is communism, we need more of that sort of honesty.

Now please educate me on the differences.


I refuse to further engage you. At no point did I say that Western Progressive Movements were Communism. As you have already twisted my few words into something unrecognizable, I feel it would be a waste of my time to actively attempt to educate you. So, I will leave you with these:

1. You bear all the hallmarks of a willfully ignorant fool
2. If you wish to prove me wrong, read the following Wikipedia article on Progressive Movements and acknowledge how nearly everything you listed as similarities to Stalin's regime are false: Wikipedia's Article on Progressivism
 
2013-01-30 08:54:33 AM

miss diminutive: The pampered consumerist in me finds this story appalling and wonders what those women used for tampons.


Probably all the pine nut shells and potato peels littering the floor. The clotted blood makes mighty fine insulation and floor polish.
 
2013-01-30 08:56:05 AM

david_gaithersburg: What are the differences?

Similarities:
Both believe that success is to be punished.
Both believe that rights and freedoms should be bestowed to the people by the government.
Both believe in religious intolerance and bigotry.
Both believe in government control of the press.
Both believe in one party political systems.

These are not traits of "Stalin's communism", but communism itself. I'm glad to see that you are willing to admit that the "Western Progressive movements" is communism, we need more of that sort of honesty.

Now please educate me on the differences.


Don't set the hook quite yet... you can keep this going a little longer.
 
2013-01-30 08:58:40 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: dittybopper: tinfoil-hat maggie: dittybopper: Mart Laar's beard shaver: There are a lot of Old Believers still left, around the coasts of Lake Peipsi

No Peipsi. Coke.

I'm guessing this is an old joke where you live?
/Um well okay then ; )

Yeah. It's an old joke where *WE* come from.

LoL, I still liked it, and really ya can't outmatch me on the where "we" come from card : )


Challenge *ACCEPTED*.

Andrews Sisters song about cunnilingus.
 
2013-01-30 08:59:20 AM

DrunkenBob: miss diminutive: The pampered consumerist in me finds this story appalling and wonders what those women used for tampons.

Probably all the pine nut shells and potato peels littering the floor. The clotted blood makes mighty fine insulation and floor polish.


It's a floor wax *AND* a dessert topping!
 
2013-01-30 09:08:13 AM

maskedloser: It amuses me to no end how many people here rag on how modern tech has softened us up too much. Are you farking kidding me? Kids die all over the world of shiat we can treat with a single shot of vaccine. That is not the path to human success. Here, at least most children can expect to survive their parents and it's considered a tragedy when they don't. There are parts of the world where that isn't true.


Well, there is something in the middle. And if you think modern life hasn't made us soft and spoiled, just watch someone drive to their mailbox, jump on a motorized cart at Wal-Mart after they walked in from the parking lot, or leave their vehicle running for half an hour while they go shopping, because it's 30 degrees outside and they don't want their car to get cold.

Like somebody said the other day, we're about two generations away from Wall-E.

/I'd go with 3 generations, but without the space travel. We'll just be driving over all the garbage, completely isolated from the outside world with our self-driving cars and headphones that shield every outside noise from us.
 
2013-01-30 09:10:06 AM
Great find subby. Thanks.
 
2013-01-30 09:12:50 AM

Saberus Terras: Ishkur: Hey libertarians: You want to live in a completely free society?

That's where you should go. In Siberia no one will ever crush your freedoms or suppress your rights..... nor even notice you are there.

No, in Siberia, you either get tough or die. That's why it's been used as a unwalled prison at times in Russian history. Siberia is a gorgeous, harsh, strict mistress that brooks no safewords and shows no pity or mercy, she will beat you when she likes and fark you when she likes.


Go on...
 
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