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(io9) Video Watch Siskel and Ebert battle a snooty Star Wars-hating film critic "they are making children dumber than they need to be" Pssst, in the future people will pay $5 to "comment" on "W-E-B-S-I-T-E-S"   (io9.com) divider line 54
    More: Video, Star Wars, Pssst, Siskel, Ted Koppel, Return of the Jedi, Roger Ebert, battles  
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3863 clicks; posted to Video » on 29 Jan 2013 at 12:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-29 01:13:00 AM
... or even to NOT comment


(much)
 
2013-01-29 10:23:34 AM
Liked that comment about the 85%. There's a lot of Simons here when the subject of Episodes 1-2-3 comes up.
 
2013-01-29 12:03:23 PM
I don't pay to post on Fark.  I pay for Fark to leave after I post.
 
2013-01-29 12:05:51 PM
LOL, this guy lost all credibility when he goes "I'd take my kids to see 'Tender Mercies"..... at that point, I knew this was some old bachelor who never had kids (in addition to being snooty) film critic... what 10 year old boy is going to sit through Tender Mercies?
 
2013-01-29 12:33:39 PM
GIS for Space Hunter
a3.zassets.com
 
2013-01-29 12:40:42 PM
If you're going to rag on Star Wars, you'd better bring Plinkett.

I guess the weird thing is if you think about the whiner's POV in TFV in respect to episodes 1-3, he's mostly correct. He's still a boob, though.
 
2013-01-29 12:54:45 PM
The only thing that would have made that video more awesome is if that pretentious douche had casually dropped in a line about Vader being Luke's father.
 
2013-01-29 01:04:11 PM
Wasn't a lot of the Star Wars saga based on The Hero's Journey, which is in turn based on, oh I dunno, every mythological cycle going back to something like when we started making myths?

Doesn't teach you anything about reality?

Not about human beings?

Isn't made for mature minds?


oooookay...

This may be why I can still remember who Siskel and Ebert are and not so much who the hell John Simon is. And I'm not one who's honestly fond of Movie Critics.
 
2013-01-29 01:10:48 PM
Found this on Wikipedia... Ebert didn't warm to this guy over time...

Ebert in his memoirLife Itself, wrote, "I feel repugnance for the critic John Simon, who made it a specialty to attack the way actors look. They can't help how they look, any more than John Simon can help looking like a rat.
 
2013-01-29 01:26:45 PM
Ask Ebert about video games now, and he reads just like this Simon guy.

I always liked Siskel better. He was more of an everyman. Even, though I also enjoy Ebert's writing on film history. I just never enjoyed listening to Ebert talk. He could be very pompous.
 
2013-01-29 02:10:06 PM
I agree with Simon. They are bad movies with impressive (for the time) effects. Just look at any of James Cameron's movies and you'll see the same special effects/vapid storyline effect. I loved the Star Wars movies as a kid, but I grew up and realized they were bad. I still have nostalgic memories about them, but that nostalgia does not sustain me enough to watch even a little bit of the "best" of them..."The Empire Strikes Back".

On the other hand, other movies from a similar time, and with similar direction and effects, like "Raiders of the Lost Ark" hold up. I wish that those of us who were kids when Star Wars came out could just stop romanticizing these films and...well...grow up. Stop being butthurt because an iconic series (no arguments that Star Wars is iconic and has affected culture...so has Honey Boo Boo) turns out to not live up to your 9 year-old memories of glory, and disappoints your current 35-40 year old tastes.
 
2013-01-29 02:25:31 PM

barneyfifesbullet: Ask Ebert about video games now, and he reads just like this Simon guy.


This. Thus invalidating the "heroic" nature of his opinion. Not his opinion itself, just any "YEAH! YOU GO DUDE!".

Speaker2Animals: Liked that comment about the 85%. There's a lot of Simons here when the subject of Episodes 1-2-3 comes up.


Not really. We'd only be Simon's if we disliked them all.

We just don;t think 1,2 or 3 are very good to varying levels.
 
2013-01-29 02:36:35 PM

meehaw: I agree with Simon. They are bad movies with impressive (for the time) effects. Just look at any of James Cameron's movies and you'll see the same special effects/vapid storyline effect. I loved the Star Wars movies as a kid, but I grew up and realized they were bad. I still have nostalgic memories about them, but that nostalgia does not sustain me enough to watch even a little bit of the "best" of them..."The Empire Strikes Back".



I'm sorry. What did you just say?
I've probably watch Terminator and Aliens a hundred times.
 
2013-01-29 02:45:16 PM

HellRaisingHoosier: meehaw: I agree with Simon. They are bad movies with impressive (for the time) effects. Just look at any of James Cameron's movies and you'll see the same special effects/vapid storyline effect. I loved the Star Wars movies as a kid, but I grew up and realized they were bad. I still have nostalgic memories about them, but that nostalgia does not sustain me enough to watch even a little bit of the "best" of them..."The Empire Strikes Back".

I'm sorry. What did you just say?
I've probably watch Terminator and Aliens a hundred times.


I've watched My Dinner with Andre at least 40-50 times. Yep.

/csb
 
2013-01-29 02:53:27 PM

MelGoesOnTour: HellRaisingHoosier: meehaw: I agree with Simon. They are bad movies with impressive (for the time) effects. Just look at any of James Cameron's movies and you'll see the same special effects/vapid storyline effect. I loved the Star Wars movies as a kid, but I grew up and realized they were bad. I still have nostalgic memories about them, but that nostalgia does not sustain me enough to watch even a little bit of the "best" of them..."The Empire Strikes Back".

I'm sorry. What did you just say?
I've probably watch Terminator and Aliens a hundred times.

I've watched My Dinner with Andre at least 40-50 times. Yep.

/csb


I should clarify..."James Cameron as of late, as in, Avatar"
 
2013-01-29 03:24:26 PM
National Review film was a douche? Really?
 
2013-01-29 03:52:35 PM

Mr. Cat Poop: The only thing that would have made that video more awesome is if that pretentious douche had casually dropped in a line about Vader being Luke's father.


WTF, dude?!! How about a spoiler tag???
 
2013-01-29 04:25:20 PM

barneyfifesbullet: Ask Ebert about video games now, and he reads just like this Simon guy.

I always liked Siskel better. He was more of an everyman. Even, though I also enjoy Ebert's writing on film history. I just never enjoyed listening to Ebert talk. He could be very pompous.


Well, then I have some good news for you...
 
2013-01-29 04:31:00 PM
Star wars is "dehumanizing?"

He advocates Huck Finn for children? Gee, I guess he isn't bothered by the racial stereotypes.
 
2013-01-29 04:38:03 PM

barneyfifesbullet: Ask Ebert about video games now, and he reads just like this Simon guy.

I always liked Siskel better. He was more of an everyman. Even, though I also enjoy Ebert's writing on film history. I just never enjoyed listening to Ebert talk. He could be very pompous.


I read his movie reviews and blogs all the time, and agree with most of them. He's a fascinatingly smart guy, video game issues aside.

His review for Django Unchained alone is worth reading.
 
2013-01-29 04:38:15 PM

meehaw: I agree with Simon. They are bad movies with impressive (for the time) effects. . . I loved the Star Wars movies as a kid, but I grew up and realized they were bad. I still have nostalgic memories about them, but that nostalgia does not sustain me enough to watch even a little bit of the "best" of them..."The Empire Strikes Back".


Other things that were impressive about SW/ESB (and Jedi, for that matter, although things were getting played out by then):

• Settings: Death Star, Tattooine, and Dagobah are all fully-realized environments. Not to mention, all are realtively unique to science fiction movies at the time. Prior to SW, "space stations" were eaither domed moon bases, or spindly, sterile spaceships like "2001: A Space Odyssey," not huge, hulking things like the Death Star. (Granted, the interior sets for SW aren't all that special.)

• Character design: iconic costume designs for Vader and stormtroopers, sympathetic non-human characters like Yoda and Chewbacca, anthorpomorphic things like AT-ATs (and, to the extent ships are characters, the massive opening shot looking up at a Star Destroyer, conveying just how large the Empire's power is). Compare the design of C3PO to Box, the robot from the Star War contemporary, "Logan's Run" -- Star Wars is light years more creative and believable.

• Sound design: light saber noises, TIE fighter squeals, R2D2's array of noises, etc. are clever and evocative. Not necessarily scientifically accurate, but novel.

Sure, it's a realtively traditional plot and fairly stock characters (the naiive hero, the mystic, the omnipotent bad guy, etc.), but they're presented well and individualistically-conceived. They're by no means "bad" movies.
 
2013-01-29 04:46:10 PM

Speaker2Animals: Liked that comment about the 85%. There's a lot of Simons here when the subject of Episodes 1-2-3 comes up.


It's actually sad. I've never saw such irrational hatred.
 
2013-01-29 04:50:37 PM

BenJammin: Star wars is "dehumanizing?"

He advocates Huck Finn for children? Gee, I guess he isn't bothered by the racial stereotypes.


There wasn't any racial stereotyping in Huck Finn. White southern people were that ignorant.
 
2013-01-29 05:30:57 PM

Darth_Lukecash: BenJammin: Star wars is "dehumanizing?"

He advocates Huck Finn for children? Gee, I guess he isn't bothered by the racial stereotypes.

There wasn't any racial stereotyping in Huck Finn. White southern people were that ignorant.


As a white Southern people, I find your comment slightly disingenuous in light of your previous comment:

Darth_Lukecash: Speaker2Animals: Liked that comment about the 85%. There's a lot of Simons here when the subject of Episodes 1-2-3 comes up.

It's actually sad. I've never saw such irrational hatred.

 
2013-01-29 05:38:15 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Speaker2Animals: Liked that comment about the 85%. There's a lot of Simons here when the subject of Episodes 1-2-3 comes up.

It's actually sad. I've never saw such irrational hatred.


Stop by any of the My Little Pony Threads about 12 hours after they go green.

You'll see an army of frothing at the mouth attackers, most of whom have never seen the show, attacking with full vigor and true belief that it is a bad bad thing. The fact that someone finds joy in it is truly hateful to them, but most of them can not tell you why.
 
2013-01-29 06:12:03 PM
STOP THE WORLD!! A critic from The National Review didn't like something that was FUN!!??

I wonder what their music critics were like...
 
2013-01-29 06:18:59 PM
I like the cut of his jib...

jeffwinbush.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-29 06:49:54 PM
seeing ted coppel with a full head of hair again made me LOL
 
2013-01-29 07:31:57 PM

Shadow Blasko: Darth_Lukecash: Speaker2Animals: Liked that comment about the 85%. There's a lot of Simons here when the subject of Episodes 1-2-3 comes up.

It's actually sad. I've never saw such irrational hatred.

Stop by any of the My Little Pony Threads about 12 hours after they go green.

You'll see an army of frothing at the mouth attackers, most of whom have never seen the show, attacking with full vigor and true belief that it is a bad bad thing. The fact that someone finds joy in it is truly hateful to them, but most of them can not tell you why.


That's what I was thinking when I was listening to this guy.
 
2013-01-29 07:40:13 PM

BenJammin: Star wars is "dehumanizing?"

He advocates Huck Finn for children? Gee, I guess he isn't bothered by the racial stereotypes.


He wrote for the National Review. Of course he didn't!
 
2013-01-29 07:41:23 PM

barneyfifesbullet: Ask Ebert about video games now, and he reads just like this Simon guy.


To be fair, he's called a film critic for a reason.
 
2013-01-29 07:46:14 PM

Shadow Blasko: Darth_Lukecash: Speaker2Animals: Liked that comment about the 85%. There's a lot of Simons here when the subject of Episodes 1-2-3 comes up.

It's actually sad. I've never saw such irrational hatred.

Stop by any of the My Little Pony Threads about 12 hours after they go green.

You'll see an army of frothing at the mouth attackers, most of whom have never seen the show, attacking with full vigor and true belief that it is a bad bad thing. The fact that someone finds joy in it is truly hateful to them, but most of them can not tell you why.


Star Wars was written for a general audience, with a huge helping of the kinds of excitement that appeal to 10 year old boys. It's no surprise that they make up a large contingent of the fan base, even into adulthood.

My Little Pony is designed for grade school girls. Young adult men who watch this for entertainment value are either creepy or emotionally stunted.
 
2013-01-29 07:55:56 PM

Mr. Cat Poop: The only thing that would have made that video more awesome is if that pretentious douche had casually dropped in a line about Vader being Luke's father.


Which 'pretentious douche' would that be: Siskel, Ebert or Simon?
 
2013-01-29 08:14:54 PM

Uzzah: meehaw: I agree with Simon. They are bad movies with impressive (for the time) effects. . . I loved the Star Wars movies as a kid, but I grew up and realized they were bad. I still have nostalgic memories about them, but that nostalgia does not sustain me enough to watch even a little bit of the "best" of them..."The Empire Strikes Back".

Other things that were impressive about SW/ESB (and Jedi, for that matter, although things were getting played out by then):

• Settings: Death Star, Tattooine, and Dagobah are all fully-realized environments. Not to mention, all are realtively unique to science fiction movies at the time. Prior to SW, "space stations" were eaither domed moon bases, or spindly, sterile spaceships like "2001: A Space Odyssey," not huge, hulking things like the Death Star. (Granted, the interior sets for SW aren't all that special.)

• Character design: iconic costume designs for Vader and stormtroopers, sympathetic non-human characters like Yoda and Chewbacca, anthorpomorphic things like AT-ATs (and, to the extent ships are characters, the massive opening shot looking up at a Star Destroyer, conveying just how large the Empire's power is). Compare the design of C3PO to Box, the robot from the Star War contemporary, "Logan's Run" -- Star Wars is light years more creative and believable.

• Sound design: light saber noises, TIE fighter squeals, R2D2's array of noises, etc. are clever and evocative. Not necessarily scientifically accurate, but novel.

Sure, it's a realtively traditional plot and fairly stock characters (the naiive hero, the mystic, the omnipotent bad guy, etc.), but they're presented well and individualistically-conceived. They're by no means "bad" movies.


Strong arguments, all.  But I still can't get past the absolute corniness of the dialog, simplicity of storyline, and lack of depth of character.  "Logan's Run", however even with it's worse effects, is a much better and more timeless movie, IMO.  I need my adult mind to be occupied now, and the Star Wars movies just don't do it, and worse, make my childhood seem a little less real.

This is all just opinion, anyway.  It is fun to discuss, so thanks for your genuine and rational rebuttal.
 
2013-01-29 09:51:26 PM

douchebag/hater: Mr. Cat Poop: The only thing that would have made that video more awesome is if that pretentious douche had casually dropped in a line about Vader being Luke's father.

Which 'pretentious douche' would that be: Siskel, Ebert or Simon?


In this case it's the guy who thinks his fictional 10 year old son would sit through a movie aimed at adults just because it has a kid in it.
 
2013-01-29 10:11:57 PM
It insists upon itself.
images.wikia.com
Can't believe I'm the first.
 
2013-01-29 10:14:35 PM
media.sdreader.com
 
2013-01-29 10:15:11 PM

Great_Milenko: Shadow Blasko: Darth_Lukecash: Speaker2Animals: Liked that comment about the 85%. There's a lot of Simons here when the subject of Episodes 1-2-3 comes up.

It's actually sad. I've never saw such irrational hatred.

Stop by any of the My Little Pony Threads about 12 hours after they go green.

You'll see an army of frothing at the mouth attackers, most of whom have never seen the show, attacking with full vigor and true belief that it is a bad bad thing. The fact that someone finds joy in it is truly hateful to them, but most of them can not tell you why.

Star Wars was written for a general audience, with a huge helping of the kinds of excitement that appeal to 10 year old boys. It's no surprise that they make up a large contingent of the fan base, even into adulthood.

My Little Pony is designed for grade school girls. Young adult men who watch this for entertainment value are either creepy or emotionally stunted.


Or they have kids who watch cartoons and they choose to have them watch ones that they just might find amusing too.

And by "they", I of course mean "I".

/ the memes are generally funny too
 
2013-01-29 11:21:18 PM

Great_Milenko: BenJammin: Star wars is "dehumanizing?"

He advocates Huck Finn for children? Gee, I guess he isn't bothered by the racial stereotypes.

He wrote for the National Review. Of course he didn't!


Huck Finn is the most courageous fictional document in literary history where race is concerned. I encourage you to reread it.

/The dialogue and plot of SW were idiotic, and I loved every minute of it.
 
2013-01-29 11:44:53 PM

DrZiffle: Great_Milenko: BenJammin: Star wars is "dehumanizing?"

He advocates Huck Finn for children? Gee, I guess he isn't bothered by the racial stereotypes.

He wrote for the National Review. Of course he didn't!

Huck Finn is the most courageous fictional document in literary history where race is concerned. I encourage you to reread it.


This.

Also . . .

All American writing comes from Huckleberry Finn. There was nothing before. There has been nothing as good since. - Papa Hemingway


/ more here: http://classiclit.about.com/od/adventuresofhuckleberry/a/huckfinn_wri er.htm
 
2013-01-30 12:10:30 AM

BenJammin: Star wars is "dehumanizing?"

He advocates Huck Finn for children? Gee, I guess he isn't bothered by the racial stereotypes.


If that's what you got from Huck Finn, then you missed the entire farking point of the book.
 
2013-01-30 12:17:51 AM

OgreMagi: BenJammin: Star wars is "dehumanizing?"

He advocates Huck Finn for children? Gee, I guess he isn't bothered by the racial stereotypes.

If that's what you got from Huck Finn, then you missed the entire farking point of the book.


Ok, I can't let this go.  For idiots who think Huck Finn was nothing but racist stereotyping and who obviously did not read it or are too stupid to understand it.  Here's a short summary.

Huck was raised to believe that blacks are no better than apes, not good for anything but labor, much like oxen.  They are not really men.  And god meant it to be this way and if you believe otherwise you are going to hell.  Throughout the adventure, the runaway slave Jim proves to be the most noble, and humane person of the story.  Someone to be admired and trusted.  In the end, against everything he was taught, Huck realizes that Jim is a MAN, as good or better than anyone else Huck knows.  And he's willing to accept going to hell for this belief.

It was not a story of racial stereotypes.  It's a story that BREAKS those stereotypes.
 
2013-01-30 12:31:08 AM
35 years later, let's take score.............

-- Everyone knows who Ebert was.

-- Everyone knows who Siskel is.

-- George Lucas made over four BUH BUH BUH BUH BILLION dollars from his child-dumbing franchise. Oh yeah, EVERYONE knows who HE is!

-- And just WHO is this snooty fartknocker and does anyone even remember him anymore (aside from this You Tube video which now mocks him forever)?
 
2013-01-30 12:45:55 AM
Simon was just pissed that he didn't get the Grand Moff Tarkin role.
 
2013-01-30 03:54:22 AM

meehaw: "Logan's Run", however even with it's worse effects, is a much better and more timeless movie, IMO.


More timeless movie ? This movie aged worse than "The black hole".
 
2013-01-30 04:26:28 AM

padraig: This movie aged worse than "The black hole".


And black hole has aged badly
 
2013-01-30 10:55:31 AM
And for those of you who want to watch the video w/o gawker stupidity piled on top..

youtube link
 
2013-01-30 11:09:10 AM
BenJammin

He advocates Huck Finn for children? Gee, I guess he isn't bothered by the racial stereotypes.
You quote Huck Finn, a book that teaches how evil/wrong racism is as an example for promoting racism? Public schooling failed you.

dletter

LOL, this guy lost all credibility when he goes "I'd take my kids to see 'Tender Mercies".....
He didn't say he took his kids to see it

dletter at that point, I knew this was some old bachelor who never had kids

How much time did it take you to figure out he doesn't had kids, after he clearly stated he doesn't have kids.

They are for childish adults...


steampunkcostume.com

Kinda hard to argue with him.
 
2013-01-30 12:23:52 PM

MJMaloney187:

As a white Southern people, I find your comment slightly disingenuous in light of your previous comment:


As a student of history, what he said was fair. It's also fair to point out that a lot of people from the South hated slavery and defected to the Union once the War started. It's also fair to point out that what's in the past is in the past and that most modern Southerners are pretty cool and I doubt most harbor any intentionally racist attitudes, but it's not fair to whitewash history.
 
2013-01-30 02:17:04 PM

OnlyM3: dletter

LOL, this guy lost all credibility when he goes "I'd take my kids to see 'Tender Mercies".....
He didn't say he took his kids to see it


After Gene Siskel talks about not many good kids movies out other than Black Stallion and Empire, and mentioning bad examples of the genre like "Space Hunter", Koppel asks him if he's sunk as low as "Space Hunter" and his response to Gene...
"I think there was wondering things you can take kids to, there's a wonderful film called Tender Mercies".

I was paraphrasing doofus... he was basically saying "Star Wars is crap, take your kids to see Tender Mercies".  Yes, Tender Mercies is a good movie... for adults....again, most 9 and 10 year olds won't even get most of the drama going on, or will care.   My point being, he obviously has zero ability to understand why others would like certain movies, or how most in certain age groups would respond to a movie.
 
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