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(Huffington Post)   There's a sale at Penney's again   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 54
    More: Spiffy, J.C. Penney, The Practice, credit ratings, JCP, total sales, Izod, luxury vehicles, reversal  
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5131 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 Jan 2013 at 5:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-28 05:20:59 PM
 
2013-01-28 05:28:01 PM

syrynxx: Bad news! The fog is getting thicker.


encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

and leon's getting laaaarger!
 
2013-01-28 05:41:15 PM
And this is why we can't have nice things.

Every time I shopped there the employees were happier with the setup and not having to spend half their work week or more adjusting prices and signage. I was happy with the prices and the much more widely available service. I made it a point to shop there.
 
2013-01-28 05:48:54 PM
As someone who works for a retailer that was watching this closely I weep. Dealing with a constant barrage of sales and coupons every week is a huge hassle not just for the customers but the employees; however, as this proves it's just part of the business. Apparently people want to get ripped off, as long as long as there is the illusion that they are somehow saving money.
 
2013-01-28 05:55:09 PM

msupf: Every time I shopped there the employees were happier with the setup and not having to spend half their work week or more adjusting prices and signage.


My local Kohl's has gone digital for signage with exact prices.
 
2013-01-28 06:06:36 PM
You can sell something for $20 regular price or sell the same thing for $20 on sale and people will prefer the item on sale because they think they are getting a better deal. It's a mental thing and it's buried too deep in our minds to change it at this point.
 
2013-01-28 06:06:44 PM

FlashHarry: syrynxx: Bad news! The fog is getting thicker.



and leon's getting laaaarger!


"A hat or a brooch or a pterodactyl!"
 
2013-01-28 06:11:29 PM

12349876: msupf: Every time I shopped there the employees were happier with the setup and not having to spend half their work week or more adjusting prices and signage.

My local Kohl's has gone digital for signage with exact prices.


Too bad you can't hardly read the signs in their lighting setup.
 
2013-01-28 06:11:45 PM

GendoIkari: As someone who works for a retailer that was watching this closely I weep. Dealing with a constant barrage of sales and coupons every week is a huge hassle not just for the customers but the employees; however, as this proves it's just part of the business. Apparently people want to get ripped off, as long as long as there is the illusion that they are somehow saving money.


That's the thing that cracks me up. Read the comments on the article on Huff Post...people specifically stating they stopped shopping there once JCP took away the sales. Is the average person really that farking stupid? Sell something for $20 and people biatch and moan. Sell that same thing for $30 but then put the same item "on sale" for $20 and people flock in droves. If I didn't have a conscience I'd be a millionaire.
 
2013-01-28 06:12:21 PM

ddam: You can sell something for $20 regular price or sell the same thing for $20 on sale and people will prefer the item on sale because they think they are getting a better deal. It's a mental thing and it's buried too deep in our minds to change it at this point.


Haha you beat me to it. Even chose the same $20 lol
 
2013-01-28 06:13:28 PM
I don't see all the all the grief with dealing with sales.
Someone enters a few key strokes, sends out the data to pricing databases at the stores, which automatically is the price when an item is scanned, then fires off the info to the stores. What, that probably takes all of about 2hrs per week.
At the stores, ya have to put a few signs around reflecting a sale and its discounted price. How long can it take one person walking around a store putting up signs? Another what, 2hrs per week if they are slow and stop to chit-chat along the way?
Hand out a few fliers to sales people so they know when a sale is in their department. 5mins tops per per week.
If it isn't this simple, it should be.
 
2013-01-28 06:16:49 PM

keepitcherry: ddam: You can sell something for $20 regular price or sell the same thing for $20 on sale and people will prefer the item on sale because they think they are getting a better deal. It's a mental thing and it's buried too deep in our minds to change it at this point.

Haha you beat me to it. Even chose the same $20 lol


I got lazy. In reality it's $19.99
 
2013-01-28 06:20:26 PM

DownDaRiver: I don't see all the all the grief with dealing with sales.
Someone enters a few key strokes, sends out the data to pricing databases at the stores, which automatically is the price when an item is scanned, then fires off the info to the stores. What, that probably takes all of about 2hrs per week.
At the stores, ya have to put a few signs around reflecting a sale and its discounted price. How long can it take one person walking around a store putting up signs? Another what, 2hrs per week if they are slow and stop to chit-chat along the way?
Hand out a few fliers to sales people so they know when a sale is in their department. 5mins tops per per week.
If it isn't this simple, it should be.


Mrs. Smurf occasionally helps with resigning. In a 14K sq ft store it takes 2 people upwards of 5 hours to process the new signage scheme, print the new signs, verify each sign to be removed, place new signs, verify new sign is correct and located according to the latest merchandising plan.

Going all digital would seem like a great idea until you realize that it would be done by corporate. Would you trust a corporate office to handle pricing signage when they would be completely removed from all repercussions when they fark it up? The same corporate office that regularly refuses to provide enough funding to keep toilet paper in the public restrooms.
 
2013-01-28 06:22:22 PM
FABULOUS!
Let's trot right on down there!
 
2013-01-28 06:29:07 PM
I stopped shopping there not because there weren't sales, but because the quality of their products had dropped below WalMart's.
 
2013-01-28 06:32:41 PM
Back in '70s New York State to Sear's to court because they had so many sales that the "retail price" was meaningless. One of the items looked at was a microwave oven. Exactly one had been sold at the retail price in an entire year.
 
2013-01-28 06:57:04 PM

Smeggy Smurf: DownDaRiver: I don't see all the all the grief with dealing with sales.
Someone enters a few key strokes, sends out the data to pricing databases at the stores, which automatically is the price when an item is scanned, then fires off the info to the stores. What, that probably takes all of about 2hrs per week.
At the stores, ya have to put a few signs around reflecting a sale and its discounted price. How long can it take one person walking around a store putting up signs? Another what, 2hrs per week if they are slow and stop to chit-chat along the way?
Hand out a few fliers to sales people so they know when a sale is in their department. 5mins tops per per week.
If it isn't this simple, it should be.

Mrs. Smurf occasionally helps with resigning. In a 14K sq ft store it takes 2 people upwards of 5 hours to process the new signage scheme, print the new signs, verify each sign to be removed, place new signs, verify new sign is correct and located according to the latest merchandising plan.

Going all digital would seem like a great idea until you realize that it would be done by corporate. Would you trust a corporate office to handle pricing signage when they would be completely removed from all repercussions when they fark it up? The same corporate office that regularly refuses to provide enough funding to keep toilet paper in the public restrooms.


Not to mention having to execute planogram changes to reflect sales specials or having to rearrange racks/displays of clothing to separate similar items that do not share sale pricing. That can add quite a few extra hours per department, digital signage or not. Plus you have to add in physical price changes that usually have to executed weekly and completed by certain dates, along with removing old signage from expiring sales while creating new signage for permanent price changes.

/worked bad clothing retail(Dick's) and good clothing retail(Galyan's)
//sales setup sucks, and took away a lot of time from actual work
 
2013-01-28 06:58:07 PM

Kyosuke: I stopped shopping there not because there weren't sales, but because the quality of their products had dropped below WalMart's.


Pretty much the reason I stopped too. Their clothes, especially jeans felt like they were about as durable as construction paper.
 
2013-01-28 07:12:47 PM
"I'm two inches taller, a better dancer, and much more fun to be with."
 
2013-01-28 07:14:11 PM
And personally I think people prefer to buy something if they know an underpaid worker had to waste a bunch of time putting up signs for it week in and out.
 
2013-01-28 07:19:50 PM
Johnson, who rolled out the pricing plan shortly after taking the top job in November 2011, told The Associated Press the latest moves are not a "deviation" from his strategy but rather an "evolution."

So he went with "I know this is right" rather than read a book on human psychology or, hell, spend 25 minutes talking to someone who read a book on human psychology - - - better give him another farking huge bonus so he's not lured away by another company!
 
2013-01-28 07:31:10 PM

msupf: Smeggy Smurf: DownDaRiver

/worked bad clothing retail(Dick's) and good clothing retail(Galyan's)
//sales setup sucks, and took away a lot of time from actual work


What's the actual work part? Standing around watching people?
Wouldn't sales setup be part of the actual work?
When they hired you, didn't they tell that part of your job is doing work like that?
 
2013-01-28 07:32:20 PM

msupf: And this is why we can't have nice things.

Every time I shopped there the employees were happier with the setup and not having to spend half their work week or more adjusting prices and signage. I was happy with the prices and the much more widely available service. I made it a point to shop there.


GendoIkari: As someone who works for a retailer that was watching this closely I weep. Dealing with a constant barrage of sales and coupons every week is a huge hassle not just for the customers but the employees; however, as this proves it's just part of the business. Apparently people want to get ripped off, as long as long as there is the illusion that they are somehow saving money.


They pay employees for more than standing around blocking the aisles. Changing signage is not the end of the world.

JC Penney's CEO screwed up big time. They didn't stop having sales... they just became more pretentious as "month long values" and confused shoppers who tend to have a short attention span. I guess a hundred years of hardcore consumerism wasn't enough for JCP.... they decided to become the "Apple" of retail, forgetting that what makes Apple able to do a lot of what they do is because they are Apple, not JC Penney.

There are consumers who aren't concerned with sales, or marked prices.... but why should they shop at your store over any other? Maybe because your moves have eliminated 80% of your customers from the floor? Beyond that, the customers JCP hoped to attract had little reason to flock to JCP.

Walmart doesn't have "sales" - they just have damn cheap prices; but then they've always had damn cheap prices. JCP went from a retailer where customers only bought stuff on sale because normal prices are considered too high, to a retailer that "just got rid of sales" - so what did they expect? Pretentiousness  won't pay the bills unless you are some obscene "in fashion" retailer that rich people are used to going to.

/Worked retail
 
2013-01-28 08:21:38 PM
I thought their new pricing scheme was fine, but the quality and selection of products is absolutly awful now. Ordered a pair of work pants (jcp brand since they chose to discontinue the St. Johns Bay brand for whatever reason). Quality was poor, and the fit was geared to the girly-hipster types. Oh, and they were $20. I have got better quality, normal fitting pants at Walmart for half of that. Not to mention their website has been broken for months now and everything is pretty much Out Of Stock. What a clusterfark.
 
2013-01-28 08:23:49 PM
I'm getting a kick out of this since after my latest move the town near me has a Penny's, the first one I've seen in years.

/Bought a blanket there last week when it got cold
 
2013-01-28 08:31:48 PM
I worked at Target for years. The amount of time wasted at the store level on signing setup is absolutely mind-boggling, but I'm certain corporate ran a ton of cost/benefit analysis to justify it. That aside, the psychology of a "sale" really is fascinating. Target (and I'm sure many others) frequently jacked up regular prices on the popular items a few weeks before the holidays to make the sales appear more significant. The average shopper IS that dumb and/or too busy to notice the difference. And all major retailers know it.
 
2013-01-28 08:42:15 PM

DownDaRiver: msupf: Smeggy Smurf: DownDaRiver

/worked bad clothing retail(Dick's) and good clothing retail(Galyan's)
//sales setup sucks, and took away a lot of time from actual work

What's the actual work part? Standing around watching people?
Wouldn't sales setup be part of the actual work?
When they hired you, didn't they tell that part of your job is doing work like that?


Thing is, they don't factor that time into the metrics they use to determine your work schedule, performance, or pay. The work they expect of you is you being able to help customers and sell them items and services, process incoming stock and set new product out as needed, keep the displays replenished and neat, etc. etc. they treat sales setup and tear down as unproductive time so want you to do it as fast as possible while still somehow keeping every other priority higher on the list.
that's why retail sucks, morons don't understand what goes into doing it, and morons are both customers and management for the most part.
 
2013-01-28 08:57:28 PM

LesserEvil: msupf: And this is why we can't have nice things.

Every time I shopped there the employees were happier with the setup and not having to spend half their work week or more adjusting prices and signage. I was happy with the prices and the much more widely available service. I made it a point to shop there.

GendoIkari: As someone who works for a retailer that was watching this closely I weep. Dealing with a constant barrage of sales and coupons every week is a huge hassle not just for the customers but the employees; however, as this proves it's just part of the business. Apparently people want to get ripped off, as long as long as there is the illusion that they are somehow saving money.

They pay employees for more than standing around blocking the aisles. Changing signage is not the end of the world.

JC Penney's CEO screwed up big time. They didn't stop having sales... they just became more pretentious as "month long values" and confused shoppers who tend to have a short attention span. I guess a hundred years of hardcore consumerism wasn't enough for JCP.... they decided to become the "Apple" of retail, forgetting that what makes Apple able to do a lot of what they do is because they are Apple, not JC Penney.

There are consumers who aren't concerned with sales, or marked prices.... but why should they shop at your store over any other? Maybe because your moves have eliminated 80% of your customers from the floor? Beyond that, the customers JCP hoped to attract had little reason to flock to JCP.

Walmart doesn't have "sales" - they just have damn cheap prices; but then they've always had damn cheap prices. JCP went from a retailer where customers only bought stuff on sale because normal prices are considered too high, to a retailer that "just got rid of sales" - so what did they expect? Pretentiousness  won't pay the bills unless you are some obscene "in fashion" retailer that rich people are used to going to.

/Worked retail


Actually, they don't like to pay people for ad setting. You get in a lot more trouble for setting an ad and trying to do it right and within the time constraints you have to complete and not being as available for customer service because of it than you would for doing a half-assed ad set and making your sales goal for that time period.

The two places I worked at considered ad set important, but would rake you over the coals for doing it instead of the other dozen things that were expected of you in that same timeframe already. It's a no-win situation for employees, especially of they work on any sort of commission basis because that ad set realistically means they just lost wages.

It was especially fun when the ad signage that was sent or pre-printed for you does not match the display/floor set up you have, most stores do not provide workstations or printers for each dept. so a whole store has to usually share one or two computers and printers to make and print all the extra signage they so need to make the ad set complete. There was no bigger sin than not having a sale item marked with the special signage for that ad.
 
2013-01-28 09:13:16 PM
I'll take a bit of a different tack and quote a different film.

``OH take me to the drive in and prove you love me!''
 
2013-01-28 10:15:58 PM

msupf: And this is why we can't have nice things.

Every time I shopped there the employees were happier with the setup and not having to spend half their work week or more adjusting prices and signage. I was happy with the prices and the much more widely available service. I made it a point to shop there.


Same here. I'd go out of my way to shop there. I was much happier with their business model and every employee I spoke with liked it, too.
 
2013-01-28 10:24:35 PM

keepitcherry: GendoIkari: As someone who works for a retailer that was watching this closely I weep. Dealing with a constant barrage of sales and coupons every week is a huge hassle not just for the customers but the employees; however, as this proves it's just part of the business. Apparently people want to get ripped off, as long as long as there is the illusion that they are somehow saving money.

That's the thing that cracks me up. Read the comments on the article on Huff Post...people specifically stating they stopped shopping there once JCP took away the sales. Is the average person really that farking stupid? Sell something for $20 and people biatch and moan. Sell that same thing for $30 but then put the same item "on sale" for $20 and people flock in droves. If I didn't have a conscience I'd be a millionaire.


The average Huff Pist reader is.
 
2013-01-28 10:28:42 PM
I kinda liked the pricing structure they had. It didn't feel like I was getting robbed by buying something at their daily price.

Is it even possible to buy something at Kohl's at the so-called "regular price"? You'd be a fool to pay that price.
 
2013-01-28 10:32:09 PM

ChrisDe: Is it even possible to buy something at Kohl's at the so-called "regular price"? You'd be a fool to pay that price.


It's pretty easy if you buy just one item. Lots of "buy one get one half off" type stuff.
 
2013-01-28 10:44:39 PM

natazha: Back in '70s New York State to Sear's to court because they had so many sales that the "retail price" was meaningless. One of the items looked at was a microwave oven. Exactly one had been sold at the retail price in an entire year.

My state has a law about that. I don't think there is anyone that ever enforces it. They make more money by ticketing speeders and stuff.
I think there was a report on NPR (one of the shows) within the last month about a store that was perpetually going "out of business". They obscured the sign though and it actually said "going out for business" so they were a-ok!
 
2013-01-28 11:09:52 PM

ChrisDe: I kinda liked the pricing structure they had. It didn't feel like I was getting robbed by buying something at their daily price.

Is it even possible to buy something at Kohl's at the so-called "regular price"? You'd be a fool to pay that price.


I like to hit the 70% off sale racks. Yeah, its shirts from two years ago, but who give a fark as long as it looks good and fits well? I've gotten some nice dress shirts for like $8 that were once $40+

My wife always hates it, since the mens sales rack is usually chock full of decent stuff, but the womens rack is always wiped clean.
 
2013-01-29 12:02:46 AM
The problem that JCP ran into was that their shoppers were conditioned to buy on sales. Once they are they can't be convinced otherwise.
There are shops out there (usually higher end) that dont do sales and they are doing fine. However once they go after the sale siren call for short term gains they are doomed.
 
2013-01-29 12:03:26 AM

ddam: keepitcherry: ddam: You can sell something for $20 regular price or sell the same thing for $20 on sale and people will prefer the item on sale because they think they are getting a better deal. It's a mental thing and it's buried too deep in our minds to change it at this point.

Haha you beat me to it. Even chose the same $20 lol

I got lazy. In reality it's $19.99


More likely its mark the product up to $30 and send out a 20% off coupon good from 8am to 11am and 15% off from 11am till close. People will salivate as they stand in line at 10:50 all giddy over the savings.
 
2013-01-29 12:27:13 AM
Analogous, I suppose: If supermarkets that rely on "discount cards" would just price everything honestly to begin with - either you need $2.99 for that box of oatmeal or you don't - if you can make do with $2, then leave it that way 'til the price of oats goes up - then they would save a lot of time and hassle and money, it seems to me.
I picked my discount card up off the street, anyway - it's not like you're getting my consumer profile from my purchases.

That's the only thing I give to Wal-Mart in its favor. No discount cards.
 
2013-01-29 12:37:08 AM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: I picked my discount card up off the street, anyway - it's not like you're getting my consumer profile from my purchases.


They may not know your address (and I'm there are tons of people who haven't bothered to update addresses on discount cards) but they're definitely tracking your purchases and using it for things like how to stock the store.
 
2013-01-29 12:41:20 AM
Did I leave the iron on?

/miss that guy...
 
2013-01-29 02:33:53 AM
How about some coffee, Johnny?
 
2013-01-29 03:02:54 AM
drtfa, what can you make of it?
 
2013-01-29 04:28:26 AM

GendoIkari: As someone who works for a retailer that was watching this closely I weep. Dealing with a constant barrage of sales and coupons every week is a huge hassle not just for the customers but the employees; however, as this proves it's just part of the business. Apparently people want to get ripped off, as long as long as there is the illusion that they are somehow saving money.


What's really sad is that as a customer who only pops into a clothing store on occasion, this was a fantastic idea for me. I worked at JCP for a summer after high school, and it wasn't a horrid place to work, so I still shopped there for business casual stuff from time to time. Now that I'm in the certified fattie category though, a good 80% of my clothing purchases happen at Lane Bryant. That's fine, except that there is always some sale or another that I'm missing out on - not to mention that I get coupons toward a purchase that I might make during a particular 2-week period that's a month or more away.

I've paid $70 for a pair of good jeans - mind you, they're worth it, even at full retail, because the worksmanship and fabric are still very good - but if I'd waited until I got a text message about a flash sale, I could've dropped everything and gone to the store THAT NIGHT for a big discount. All of this is determined by a bunch of statistical sales models, which not only makes it difficult to keep up a decent wardrobe at a reasonable price a pain, but it also means that I end up paying $20 or so more for the same pair of pants that a woman would buy the next day, potentially. It's a load of garbage.

FWIW, though, I do plan ahead when they have the semi-annual bra sale. They're basically the only place I can walk into and find a 42H, much less a 42H on sale for a buy one, get one half off deal - and the bras are rarely on sale, ever.

/bought four bras last week
//sales screw over the consumer, but they at least hold my boobs up
 
2013-01-29 05:26:33 AM
Ron Johnson? That's a terrible name.

Should've been Ron Mexico.
 
2013-01-29 06:51:48 AM
cdn.theatlantic.com

Now she can get a new dress and shoes!
 
2013-01-29 07:24:29 AM
static.fjcdn.com


/close enough
// hot
 
2013-01-29 08:18:39 AM

msupf: And this is why we can't have nice things.

Every time I shopped there the employees were happier with the setup and not having to spend half their work week or more adjusting prices and signage. I was happy with the prices and the much more widely available service. I made it a point to shop there.


I started shopping there because of the new policy as well.

And based on the people I've seen say the same, it looks like they successfully managed to attract men to shop at their store and chased off women. If the stock price is to be trusted, that was a very bad thing to do.
 
2013-01-29 08:37:31 AM

LemSkroob: ChrisDe: I kinda liked the pricing structure they had. It didn't feel like I was getting robbed by buying something at their daily price.

Is it even possible to buy something at Kohl's at the so-called "regular price"? You'd be a fool to pay that price.

I like to hit the 70% off sale racks. Yeah, its shirts from two years ago, but who give a fark as long as it looks good and fits well? I've gotten some nice dress shirts for like $8 that were once $40+

My wife always hates it, since the mens sales rack is usually chock full of decent stuff, but the womens rack is always wiped clean.


Same here and same reaction from my wife lol.  They also have pretty good deals on shoes.  I buy most of my work clothes (business casual) from Kohls.  I have also found that the staff is very helpful and seems to know where things are.
 
2013-01-29 10:15:47 AM
It's Penny's...WHO CARES?!?!?!
 
2013-01-29 10:16:08 AM

LemSkroob: I like to hit the 70% off sale racks.


I worked at a store that did the 70$ off...all it was was moving the cheapest items to one are, taking about 10% off it, and putting up a huge bold 70% off sign. It worked.

/just sayin
/might be different in clothing
 
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