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(CBS News)   Organization known for short shorts and colored handkerchiefs considers ending longstanding ban on homosexuals   (cbsnews.com) divider line 84
    More: Cool, educational organizations, special committee, discriminations, Boy Scouts of America  
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7823 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jan 2013 at 5:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-01-28 05:58:51 PM
10 votes:
You can be a Boy Scout in good standing and believe in one God named Yahweh, or in the 33 gods of the Hindu Vedas. Or in Thor and Woden; or in a god who set the universe in motion but hasn't touched it since. You can be "spiritual but not religious" and have vague warm feelings that there's probably some fuzzy warm creature out there who cares about you, and be a Boy Scout in good standing. You can be a Buddhist and not actually believe in a personal God and still be a Boy Scout in good standing because, well, let's just say theology is not the BSA's strong point. You can believe in a God who considers death by bear mauling to be an appropriate punishment for children who tease an old man about his baldness, and be a Boy Scout in good standing.

You cannot say "I'm honestly not sure if God exists" and be a Boy Scout in good standing.

You cannot say "I do not believe in the existence of an omnipotent supernatural being" and be a Boy Scout in good standing. Even if you avoid torturing kittens and routinely help little old ladies across the street.

Let me know when that situation changes, BSA, before you expect me to be impressed.
2013-01-28 07:14:29 PM
4 votes:

Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.


You've never seen a fiercer pedophile-hunter than an out, proud gay man and his husband. The derp that 'gay = pederast' is like that minority's version of 'blacks will rape white women' or 'Jews use the blood of Christian babies in ceremonies.' They hate it, and to that end they are much, much tougher on pedophiles than mere straight people. And some gay people own guns and are proud 'shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out' conservatives whose response to finding kiddie porn will not so much be calling the cops to arrest the perp as the coroner to clean up the mess.

I can't see this as anything but a good idea.
2013-01-28 05:35:20 PM
4 votes:

mark12A: Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.


If the scouting movement was about being a jackass, then it's time it rightfully over.
2013-01-28 05:31:40 PM
4 votes:
For an organization that prides itself on developing leadership skills, they're doing an amazing job displaying none.
2013-01-28 05:31:39 PM
4 votes:
That's nice. My son will still be doing 4-H.
2013-01-28 03:40:38 PM
4 votes:
They're considering it. They haven't done it yet. Until they actually decide, this is not a story.
2013-01-28 06:42:46 PM
3 votes:
Well, I hope they do. Then maybe, I'd trust them around kids more. I don't know why, but for some reason it seems like the more homophobic an organization is, the more likely its members are to molest children.
2013-01-28 06:08:56 PM
3 votes:

Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.


Here is one thing I don't understand about the whole controversy. Why are you (the general you, not Thisbymaster specifically) leaving your kids alone with ANY adult you don't know really well? When I was in competitive dance as a kid and we traveled to other towns there were always several parents in attendance, not just one. I don't think my parents ever left me somewhere where there weren't multiple other parents keeping an eye on the kids.
2013-01-28 05:53:38 PM
3 votes:
I'm fairly certain that one of my Scoutmasters was a peter puffer. It didn't matter since he would have been one of the first to eviscerate any molester.

/military troops FTW
//can't beat having Navy SEALs as scoutmasters
2013-01-28 05:46:35 PM
3 votes:

LazarusLong42: madgonad: Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.

And nothing of value would be lost.

And the kids who really wanted to stick with scouts would find another troop pretty fast.


This I am OK with. Seperate the church from the troops and I will be 100% OK with that decision.
2013-01-28 05:41:43 PM
3 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Krieghund: Cythraul: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.

I think that anyone that would be in that situation would be more worried about shaping the next generation of leaders than upset about the assholes that are in charge today.

But it's something we've been through with women and African-Americans and all kind of once-excluded minorities. I have great respect for anyone willing to put up with the crap that comes with being an unwelcome member of an organization. Which makes me think: if they do change the rules, a (mostly) straight guy like me would have a role in being a scout leader and helping make it a welcoming organization for everyone.

Then again, they still have a problem with atheists, don't they?

Child molesters: OK
Atheists: No way

/godless heathen bastards have no place in a free Christian country


I consider myself Agnostic personally. I was not raised around religion and my family did not attend church. When I was young I was in the cub scouts and ultimately was not allowed to progress due to being unable to complete several of the sections involving religion as my family did not practice any organized religion. Frankly I have no desire to support  such an organization in any way. The girl scouts on the other hand appear to be fully inclusive and frankly sell a better product for fundraising so they have my full support

/seriously popcorn?
2013-01-28 05:30:46 PM
3 votes:
They must be losing money
2013-01-28 04:24:40 PM
3 votes:
My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.

I don't know how the BSA lets us do this, possibly because we were a troop of over 100, and that was a lot of dues or something.
2013-01-29 03:31:16 AM
2 votes:

Baloo Uriza: Cythraul: This is the one you greenlight? Bah!

From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.

Other way around, really. They lost the United Way, Bank of America, and countless other six and seven figure donors to keep the LDS happy. And now we have a generation of boys and girls who don't find anything wrong with someone having two dads or two moms and can't relate the BSA's homophobia. Basically, this is where a lot of us after the Dale case get to point at National Council and say "Yeah, we all told all y'all this would happen."


Also, their membership is down 20% since 1999. And it doesn't help them that a whole bunch of adult Eagle Scouts have returned their awards in protest.

Girl Scouts allows all girls, regardless of religion or sexuality. And it allows gay and atheist adult volunteers. Of course, that's because the Mormons aren't interested in making strong girls. Being a leader is kinda the opposite of being a good, obedient little baby-maker.
2013-01-29 12:37:03 AM
2 votes:
I was in Boy Scouts as I grew up from Cubs to Explorers. Later, I became a Scout Master. I noticed several troops where the Scoutmasters let little thugs intimidate the weaker scouts, creating an unhappy troop and Scoutmasters who were really by the book.

Some were not so good, but at least they tried when no one else would.

I don't have a problem with gay kids entering Scouts. I do figure there is potential for some problems down the way, which will be blown out of proportion by the press, kind of like if you mixed a troop of Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts.

Older scouts are starting to enter puberty. On mixed camps, where Boy Scouts were at one end of a big camp ground and Girl Scouts at the other, we had the inevitable groups sneaking off at night to see what they could see about the opposite sex.

Gays are basically already in with the 'opposite sex' and no doubt they'll be attracted to some of the kids. Hopefully, Scoutmasters will enforce new rules forbidding any form of sexual contact. All it has to do is happen once and the lawsuits will explode.

I grew up through segregation. I was there during the battle for Equal Rights. I was in school when the schools started becoming desegregated. I recall the assorted names used for Black people and the hostilities.

I also started the first, and, as far as I know, only mixed race Boy Scout Troop in my town and met with no resistance from anyone. I actually found I got more help from the Black parents than the White. I did loose a handful of white kids, but not many.

I did not find the Black and White kids clumping together, separated by race. Everyone shared tents, cooking gear, looked out for each other and I made it real clear that racial slurs were not acceptable.

It was a GREAT troop. I often think back fondly about them.
So, I have no problem with homosexuals joining Scouts. Besides, thanks to our society becoming the most litigious in the world, Boy Scouts are now under major restrictions.

Like they can't carry the sheath knives, belt axes or machetes we used to carry on campouts. Adult women now usually accompany the kids when camping, apparently to cut down on the chances of adult male guides being pervs. The Great Fireplace in a decades old camping pavilion in a Scout Camp, around which thousands of kids had a great time, was torn down due to insurance regulations over the possibility that it might be a fire hazard and no new one is allowed.

Plus, many Scouts now can't gather firewood for campfires. They use charcoal, gas stoves and things like that. The reason? It's bad for the ecology. Trees should not be cut down. Kids might get cut using axes to chop the wood. Fires might get out of control. Kids might get burnt. They might run into poison ivy in the woods, biting insects or snakes while picking up dead wood.

All of that means potential lawsuits.

So, with the current changes, which I disagree with, the kids will be watched more than ever before.

So, I'm glad the Scouts have chosen to accept Gays. Kids are kids and the Scouts is a great organization. Some of the best times of my life as a kid was in Scouts.

I was proud to be a Scoutmaster. I was proud of 'my kids', black and white.
2013-01-28 11:06:14 PM
2 votes:
biggeek assless chaps, cock rings, whips

"Assless chaps"? Meaning chaps that don't cover the ass? There's actually a name for those. They're called "chaps".
2013-01-28 10:53:39 PM
2 votes:

mark12A: Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.


"WAAAAHHHHHH, stop being intolerant of my intolerance! Let me discriminate against who I want to because my ancient created-and-messed-up-by-humans belief system tells me too! I believe everything about gay being the same as pedophile, all man-lovers only want little boy dick!"

Thank you for being Exhibit A in the retard pavilion. Please pick up your check, leave immediately, and never darken our doorstep again.
2013-01-28 08:02:17 PM
2 votes:

mark12A: Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.


Uh, just for your info, there are other countries in the world besides the U.S.
2013-01-28 06:52:37 PM
2 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: RexTalionis: They're considering it. They haven't done it yet. Until they actually decide, this is not a story.

I don't think the BSA would make an official announcement now if the change wasn't pretty sure to pass.  Next week's meeting will just formalize what's already been decided.


Even if it doesn't pass, the mere fact that they're considering it alone is a sign of progress.

The times, they are a-changin'
2013-01-28 06:26:40 PM
2 votes:

madgonad: Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.


I don't think so. The LDS Church has recently softened it's stance on homosexuality. They are beginning to realize that:

A) This is not a passing fancy, the world is growing more tolerant of gay people and they will only be more marginalized if they continue to be hardliners
B) There are real, financial consequences to continuing to discriminate.
C) Gay people aren't so bad.

Plus, LDS has the doctrine, unique among other major monotheistic religions, of present day revelation. They have a prophet who can speak with the authority of God and overturn previous doctrine. It's not just a matter of reinterpreting scripture like other Christian sects, but new codified laws. The "revelations" ending polygamy and allowing black people into the priesthood may be obviously politically motivated, but they are also useful precedents.
2013-01-28 06:20:16 PM
2 votes:

sleeper2995: Whatever happened to the idea of "If you don't like that group let's start our own group so we can be more inclusive then the original group."?


Will your New.organization receive.the same considerations from local and national gov't? Free, priority access to public spaces? A jamboree funded by the military? Automatic promotions for.members of a certain rank who join the military? When that happens, sure.
2013-01-28 06:19:12 PM
2 votes:

sleeper2995:

So the BSA is gay for pay. Seems more like a business and not an organization.


All religious groups are ______for pay. (Fill in the blank). It's their Raison d'être.
2013-01-28 06:16:27 PM
2 votes:
They're just trying to be good role model for young men. They're saying to young men...

"See? You don't need to have principles and the courage to stand by them. You can be mealy mouthed and say "Don't look at me, ask him what think".

Deferring the policy to local units is even worse than having a bigoted national policy.
2013-01-28 06:05:06 PM
2 votes:
Whatever happened to the idea of "If you don't like that group let's start our own group so we can be more inclusive then the original group."?
2013-01-28 06:01:24 PM
2 votes:

Cythraul: This is the one you greenlight? Bah!

From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.


So the BSA is gay for pay. Seems more like a business and not an organization.
2013-01-28 06:00:04 PM
2 votes:

LaraAmber: That's nice. My son will still be doing 4-H.


I'd get my kids involved, but I remember it was pretty religious backed growing up, at least in rural Michigan.
2013-01-28 05:53:40 PM
2 votes:
"the chartered organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting would accept membership and select leaders consistent with each organization's mission, principles, or religious beliefs."

Well, it's a start, I guess.

Still think the Boy Scouts are gross (not the individual scouts, of course, just the organization). Girl Scouts was amazingly important to me as a kid and I always assumed the Boy Scouts was just the same. I was shocked to learn what a bunch of assholes it was run by.
2013-01-28 05:47:30 PM
2 votes:

mark12A: Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.


Well, another hate-filled bigot exposes himself.
2013-01-28 05:41:56 PM
2 votes:
They are not considering ending the ban, they are considering allowing each chartering org to ban or permit gay kids/leaders.

If your local troop meets in a church basement odds are that church is the chartering org for that troop.

Considering how many troops are owned/chartered by evangelical/catholic/mormon churches hardly a damn thing will change even if they go through with what they are considering.
2013-01-28 05:41:36 PM
2 votes:

madgonad: Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.


And nothing of value would be lost.

And the kids who really wanted to stick with scouts would find another troop pretty fast.
2013-01-28 05:39:42 PM
2 votes:
Now that they're going to let in gays, are they going to flush out the pedophiles?

/They've been on an exchange program with the catholic church.
2013-01-28 05:33:14 PM
2 votes:
Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.
2013-01-28 05:25:19 PM
2 votes:
So.... The fox is going to be in charge of the chicken coop.

What could possibly go wrong?
2013-01-28 04:58:00 PM
2 votes:

Cythraul: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.


I think that anyone that would be in that situation would be more worried about shaping the next generation of leaders than upset about the assholes that are in charge today.

But it's something we've been through with women and African-Americans and all kind of once-excluded minorities. I have great respect for anyone willing to put up with the crap that comes with being an unwelcome member of an organization. Which makes me think: if they do change the rules, a (mostly) straight guy like me would have a role in being a scout leader and helping make it a welcoming organization for everyone.

Then again, they still have a problem with atheists, don't they?
2013-01-28 04:36:20 PM
2 votes:

Teknowaffle: My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.

I don't know how the BSA lets us do this, possibly because we were a troop of over 100, and that was a lot of dues or something.


Muslims and Jews are A-OK by the Boy Scouts.  Maybe the gays after next week.

The godless heathens are shiat out of luck.
2013-01-28 04:35:05 PM
2 votes:

serial_crusher: Could be too little too late.  The problem isn't just the discriminatory policy against gheys, but the lack of any real democracy within the organization.  Fix that, then let the members vote on gay bans and religious requirements.


There's democracy within the organization but really only at the local level.  They do that on purpose, because if there had to be a nationwide vote on everything you'd end up with an organization as fractured as the US populace.
2013-01-28 04:03:41 PM
2 votes:
Could be too little too late.  The problem isn't just the discriminatory policy against gheys, but the lack of any real democracy within the organization.  Fix that, then let the members vote on gay bans and religious requirements.
2013-01-28 03:40:19 PM
2 votes:
This is the one you greenlight? Bah!

From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.
2013-01-29 01:28:20 PM
1 votes:
The challenge will be the litany of local lawsuits that will be forthcoming.

The activist will want to join the local troop as a leader. There are training requirements most units have before someone is let loose with the young ones, they may not want to do that and the SUE because they are not allowed to be a leader.

Most units have leaders that have some connection to the troop (parent / relative / former scout in troop) or have some connection to the chartered partner (member ). Rarely do you have random guy (gal) come in off the street and let them be a leader. No doubt some random folks will try and when not welcomed with open arms, SUE like fiends.

Only ones who win by National BSA punting on this will be the lawyers
2013-01-29 09:07:40 AM
1 votes:

meat0918: LaraAmber: meat0918: LaraAmber: That's nice. My son will still be doing 4-H.

I'd get my kids involved, but I remember it was pretty religious backed growing up, at least in rural Michigan.

Here was your first problem.

O...H...

Oh I know.

I live in the city now, and in one of the most secular states (Oregon). It seems to have concentrated the religiosity into a more aggressive form though.

We have a 4-H club in Eugene though.


I was in a few 4-H clubs as a child in New Jersey, and went to sleepaway 4-H Camp for several years, and there was absolutely no religious stuff involved.
2013-01-29 06:49:54 AM
1 votes:

Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.


What predators are you talking about? You mean the Boy Scouts are allowing Catholic priests on sleepovers?? Or are you one of those farktards that equates homosexuality with pedophilia??

/I've got news for you...
2013-01-29 01:54:19 AM
1 votes:

Rik01: I do figure there is potential for some problems down the way, which will be blown out of proportion by the press, kind of like if you mixed a troop of Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts.


When was the last time there was a scandal with Scouts Canada? Because that's how they roll already.
2013-01-29 01:25:01 AM
1 votes:

meat0918: I live in the city now, and in one of the most secular states (Oregon). It seems to have concentrated the religiosity into a more aggressive form though.


I gotta wonder if the Census didn't get seriously gamed in Oregon. I grew up in Oregon, but I switched to Oklahoma and found this place to be way more tolerant and understanding on a bad day than Portland is on a good one. Could have something to do with this being where the US has been throwing people they didn't want away for the last 150 years, whereas it was actually illegal under the state constitution in Oregon to be anything other than white until 1927...
2013-01-29 01:00:34 AM
1 votes:

Tridentata: You can be a Boy Scout in good standing and believe in one God named Yahweh, or in the 33 gods of the Hindu Vedas. Or in Thor and Woden; or in a god who set the universe in motion but hasn't touched it since. You can be "spiritual but not religious" and have vague warm feelings that there's probably some fuzzy warm creature out there who cares about you, and be a Boy Scout in good standing. You can be a Buddhist and not actually believe in a personal God and still be a Boy Scout in good standing because, well, let's just say theology is not the BSA's strong point. You can believe in a God who considers death by bear mauling to be an appropriate punishment for children who tease an old man about his baldness, and be a Boy Scout in good standing.

You cannot say "I'm honestly not sure if God exists" and be a Boy Scout in good standing.

You cannot say "I do not believe in the existence of an omnipotent supernatural being" and be a Boy Scout in good standing. Even if you avoid torturing kittens and routinely help little old ladies across the street.

Let me know when that situation changes, BSA, before you expect me to be impressed.


Ask an Indian boy following his tribe's medicine. Strong odds "god" gets replaced with "the spirits" or "the earth" or whatever personification for either that family believes in gets substituted in without so much as anyone thinking strangely of it.
2013-01-29 12:35:24 AM
1 votes:

Lsherm: Teknowaffle: My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.

I don't know how the BSA lets us do this, possibly because we were a troop of over 100, and that was a lot of dues or something.

Muslims and Jews are A-OK by the Boy Scouts.  Maybe the gays after next week.

The godless heathens are shiat out of luck.


Not necessarily. Buddhists and people following various native american paths are included. The point of that isn't so much expression of any specific faith so much as you have faith in something and can solve a moral dilemma for yourself by it. Sean Penn makes a pretty compelling case for signing off on demonstrating Scout spirit the atheist way (basically, he says he rapes and kills all he wants to already because the amount of rape he wants is zero, and the amount of killing he wants to do is zero).
2013-01-29 12:24:26 AM
1 votes:

Teknowaffle: My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.

I don't know how the BSA lets us do this, possibly because we were a troop of over 100, and that was a lot of dues or something.


TL;DR: There's about a brazillion:1 ratio when it comes to district staff, and district staff only handles an area of a few neighborhoods in a big city or a few towns in rural areas, ergo, National Council is pretty much kidding themselves if they think they have much control in practice beyond what color the cover on the next edition of the Boy Scout Handbook's going to be.

Because it's a hierarchical system, and your local council is probably more concerned with making sure units are getting the program right rather than alienating rank and file membership and/or the adults playing logistics for those units to placate some old farts in Irving (National Council) and/or Salt Lake City (the Mormons). It's also not like every unit has a district or council exec hovering over them 24/7; Cascade Pacific Council's pretty big but the CE/DE staff is like, six people, covering pretty much all of Oregon and parts of Washington State. Having a DE drop in on a meeting is darn near a once-in-a-decade experience and I've yet to see a CE outside a council office that I can recall.
2013-01-29 12:11:06 AM
1 votes:

Cythraul: This is the one you greenlight? Bah!

From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.


Other way around, really. They lost the United Way, Bank of America, and countless other six and seven figure donors to keep the LDS happy. And now we have a generation of boys and girls who don't find anything wrong with someone having two dads or two moms and can't relate the BSA's homophobia. Basically, this is where a lot of us after the Dale case get to point at National Council and say "Yeah, we all told all y'all this would happen."
2013-01-29 12:04:06 AM
1 votes:
Mormons, Xtian Fundies and Catholics. When it comes to societal principles, in my opinion these groups need to be marginalized. Let their members feed and clothe all the poor they want to (without enforcing belief as a qualification for aid) if it makes 'em feel better, but they really don't need to be out and about during the daylight.

We get it. You've got a book that teaches you how to be better people. We can read that book, too - and skip over the parts that would teach us to be dicks to fellow humans.
2013-01-28 11:02:26 PM
1 votes:
The BSA has already explicitly foreclosed this option.

BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA FEBRUARY 6, 2002 RESOLUTION

1.WHEREAS, the Resolutions Committee of the Boy Scouts of America (on behalf of the
Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America) on June 1, 2001, assigned the Relationships
Committee of the Boy Scouts of America with the responsibility for considering and making recommendations to the Executive Board with respect to various resolutions submitted by members of the National Council at the annual meeting concerning the appropriate flexibility to be employed by the Boy Scouts of America in establishing standards for leadership; and

2.WHEREAS, the Relationships Committee duly formed a Task Force on Resolutions, composed of a cross section of representatives from religious and civic chartered organizations and others represented in Scouting, to consider these resolutions and make recommendations to the Relationships Committee; and

3.WHEREAS, the Task Force has reported the results of its thoughtful and extensive deliberations to
the Relationships Committee, which submitted the report to the Relationships/Marketing Group Committee, both of these committees having approved and adopted the Report of the Task Force on Resolutions as their own; and

4.WHEREAS, the national officers, having received and considered the Report, unanimously
adopt the recommendations of the Report without reservation; and

5.WHEREAS, the national officers agree with the report that "duty to God is not a mere ideal for those
choosing to associate with the Boy Scouts of America; it is an obligation," which has defined good character for youth of Scouting age throughout Scouting's 92-year history and that the Boy Scouts of America has made a commitment "to provide faith-based values to its constituency in a respectful manner;" and

6.WHEREAS, the national officers agree that "conduct of both Scouts and Scouters must be in compliance with the Scout Oath and Law" and that "membership is contingent upon one's willingness to accept the values and standards espoused by the Boy Scouts of America," and

7.WHEREAS the national officers further agree that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the
traditional values espoused in the Scout Oath and Law and that an avowed homosexual cannot
serve as a role model for the values of the Oath and Law; and


8.WHEREAS, the national officers reaffirm that, as a national organization whose very reason for existence is to instill and reinforce values in youth, the BSA's values cannot be subject to local option choices, but must be the same in every unit; and

9.WHEREAS, the Boy Scouts of America respects the right of persons and individuals to hold values
and standards different than the Boy Scouts of America, the national officers also agree that the Boy
Scouts of America is entitled to expect that persons and organizations with different values and standards will nevertheless respect those of the Boy Scouts of America;

10.THEREFORE, the national officers recommend the National Executive Board affirm that the Boy
Scouts of America shall continue to follow its traditional values and standards of leadership.
2013-01-28 10:50:49 PM
1 votes:

meat0918: Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.

You know, I've heard stories from former members that indicated the older youths, not necessarily the troop leaders, were also culpable for serious abuses of members under the guise of hazing.

I'm wondering when those stories will get more national media attention, mostly because fear sells and people really don't like the Boy Scouts all that much anymore.


The last troop I was in during junior high had a bunch of high school sociopaths that hazed the hell out of the younger Scouts. One guy I remember was in retrospect working through some issues, as I remember him carving a stick into a wooden dildo and poking other kids in the butt with it.
2013-01-28 10:12:02 PM
1 votes:

mark12A: Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.


CRY MOAR
2013-01-28 09:29:23 PM
1 votes:
It's about time they make this official policy. Troops I had experience with growing up ignored the exclusionary policy anyway. In troops in three different states we had openly atheist members, including myself, an agnostic, and no one cared a whit. Though I honestly don't remember any openly gay members, I also don't remember any specific proscriptions against them in our troops.
2013-01-28 08:11:21 PM
1 votes:

Cythraul: This is the one you greenlight? Bah!

From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.


At the local level (where it really matters) most troops outside of the deep south and Utah won't have a problem with a gay scout leader so long as he's not actively pushing a gay agenda. At the end of the day we're trying to find people to help teach our sons to be responsible, caring adults who are a bit more prepared for life than your average person, politics be damned. Hell, at the summer camp I attended in rural Pennsylvania near the WV border the service was decidedly non-christian despite the fact that the chaplin was obviously of christian faith.
2013-01-28 07:45:38 PM
1 votes:

madgonad: Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.


i.imgur.com
2013-01-28 07:30:42 PM
1 votes:

Terrydatroll: While this may be true, you will have never seen a fiercer child hunter than a homosexual pedophile scout leader in the woods with a bunch of young impressionable boys.


And they're perfectly capable of acting straight in order to get that access. Just ask your previously mentioned Jerry Sandusky.
2013-01-28 07:30:24 PM
1 votes:

Terrydatroll: SpiderQueenDemon: Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.

You've never seen a fiercer pedophile-hunter than an out, proud gay man and his husband. The derp that 'gay = pederast' is like that minority's version of 'blacks will rape white women' or 'Jews use the blood of Christian babies in ceremonies.' They hate it, and to that end they are much, much tougher on pedophiles than mere straight people. And some gay people own guns and are proud 'shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out' conservatives whose response to finding kiddie porn will not so much be calling the cops to arrest the perp as the coroner to clean up the mess.

I can't see this as anything but a good idea.

While this may be true, you will have never seen a fiercer child hunter than a homosexual pedophile scout leader in the woods with a bunch of young impressionable boys.


False.  Catholic priests and altar boys will still exist.
2013-01-28 07:20:22 PM
1 votes:
Great, Another fine organization gives in to the perversion. "OK boys and girl wannabe's, time for another funnnn camp out with old Jerry. Just think, had they done this 10 years ago Sandusky wouldn't have had to waste all his effort in those showers at Penn State.
2013-01-28 07:12:51 PM
1 votes:
This makes sense. Scouts are supposed to be preparing kids for the military. Gays are allowed now. Best to keep up if they don't fancy obsolescence.
2013-01-28 06:55:35 PM
1 votes:
The DERP on my local newspaper's facebook page about this is hilarious. There are people threatening to take their kids out of the local scout troop because they don't want them molested by gay men and teens.
2013-01-28 06:53:47 PM
1 votes:

I_Am_Weasel: Well, clearly this will lead the way to the new Scout motto - 'Be Pre-beared'

[www.freewebs.com image 533x558]


I'm waiting for the new Scout handbook, What to do if you Encounter Bears in the Wild.
2013-01-28 06:49:10 PM
1 votes:
As a former scout, and a cub and boy scout father(and assistant den leader, wife is the leader), I say good.

/atheist
2013-01-28 06:42:15 PM
1 votes:

LaraAmber: meat0918: LaraAmber: That's nice. My son will still be doing 4-H.

I'd get my kids involved, but I remember it was pretty religious backed growing up, at least in rural Michigan.

Here was your first problem.

O...H...


Oh I know.

I live in the city now, and in one of the most secular states (Oregon). It seems to have concentrated the religiosity into a more aggressive form though.

We have a 4-H club in Eugene though.
2013-01-28 06:35:09 PM
1 votes:

Lord Dimwit: The BSA is a private organization and free to set its membership requirements as it sees fit. I fully support their right to be bigots, though I vehemently disagree.


Just as long as you're OK with them losing their sweetheart deals with the military, the Federal, State and local governments, front-of-the-line access to public lands and so on.
2013-01-28 06:32:27 PM
1 votes:

ArgusRun: madgonad: Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.

I don't think so. The LDS Church has recently softened it's stance on homosexuality. They are beginning to realize that:

A) This is not a passing fancy, the world is growing more tolerant of gay people and they will only be more marginalized if they continue to be hardliners
B) There are real, financial consequences to continuing to discriminate.
C) Gay people aren't so bad.

Plus, LDS has the doctrine, unique among other major monotheistic religions, of present day revelation. They have a prophet who can speak with the authority of God and overturn previous doctrine. It's not just a matter of reinterpreting scripture like other Christian sects, but new codified laws. The "revelations" ending polygamy and allowing black people into the priesthood may be obviously politically motivated, but they are also useful precedents.


You'd think God wouldn't change His mind so much, but yeah. Honestly, LDS theology is radically different from just about every other major religion. Even calling it monotheistic could be debated...

That being said, I'm glad to see they're moving in that direction. The LDS church is a powerful force for good in the world, though the vast majority of Saints somehow seem to equate "good" with "voting Republican" even though doctrinally they don't agree with a large swath of what the Republican Party espouses. What's more interesting is that a huge portion of the Religious Right, which makes up the Republican base, didn't generally consider the LDS churches Christian until it became politically expedient.

(Not that I'm Mormon or even religious. I just like to study religion. I have nothing against the LDS church (churches, really, since there are active schismatics).)
2013-01-28 06:29:46 PM
1 votes:
Leatherwork merit badge requirements


Identify and demonstrate to your counselor the safe use of leatherworking tools. Show correct procedures for handling leathercraft dyes, cements, and finished. Know first aid for cuts, internal poisoning, and skin irritation.
Explain to your counselor

a. Where leather comes from
b. What kinds of hides are used to make leather
c. What are five types of leather
d. What are the best uses for each type of leather

Make one or more articles of leather that use at least five of the following steps:

a. Pattern layout and transfer
b. Cutting leather
c. Punching holes
d. Carving or stamping surface designs.
e. Applying dye or stain and finish to the project.
f. Assembly by lacing or stitching
g. Setting snaps and rivets
h. Dressing edges

Recondition or show that you can take proper care of your shoes, a baseball glove, a saddle, assless chaps, cock rings, whips, furniture or other articles of leather.
Do ONE of the following:

a. Learn about the commercial tanning process. Report about it to your merit badge counselor.
b. Tan the skin of a small animal. Describe the safety precautions you will take and the tanning method that you used.
c. Braid or plait an article out of leather or vinyl lace.
d. Visit a leather-related business. This could be a leathercraft supply company, a tannery, a leather goods or shoe factory, a saddle shop, or any bar named "The Eagle". Report on your visit to your counselor.
2013-01-28 06:21:05 PM
1 votes:
The BSA is a private organization and free to set its membership requirements as it sees fit. I fully support their right to be bigots, though I vehemently disagree.

That being said, your sexual orientation has absolutely no bearing on your ability to be a good member of your community. Same with the belief or disbelief in a supreme being, though that requirement's going to take longer to remove, I bet.
2013-01-28 06:15:24 PM
1 votes:

Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.


You know, I've heard stories from former members that indicated the older youths, not necessarily the troop leaders, were also culpable for serious abuses of members under the guise of hazing.

I'm wondering when those stories will get more national media attention, mostly because fear sells and people really don't like the Boy Scouts all that much anymore.
2013-01-28 06:11:21 PM
1 votes:
southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com
2013-01-28 06:09:57 PM
1 votes:

meat0918: LaraAmber: That's nice. My son will still be doing 4-H.

I'd get my kids involved, but I remember it was pretty religious backed growing up, at least in rural Michigan.


4H is run by rural people. Rural people tend to be church going. It comes with the territory. The upside is you aren't going to have a bunch of worthless shiat stains who are there just to fark things up for others.
2013-01-28 06:06:22 PM
1 votes:
See y'all at next year's Jamboree.  I'll be in my bunk.
2013-01-28 05:51:38 PM
1 votes:
Not if the Mormons in charge have anything to say about it.

//Or is that largely a Western US thing?
2013-01-28 05:48:03 PM
1 votes:

Oldiron_79: I_Am_Weasel: Well, clearly this will lead the way to the new Scout motto - 'Be Pre-beared'

Well im pretty sure most gheys that would want into scouting would be more likely to be bears than fairy twinks.


The guy that taught us first aid said we should bring...maxipads while camping. Just in case.

/good for soaking up blood
//didn't bring any
2013-01-28 05:46:43 PM
1 votes:
Still no cure for shiatty popcorn.
2013-01-28 05:46:35 PM
1 votes:

Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.


That's why you go camping where there aren't bears!

/Ba dum CHING!
//Tip your waitress, try the veal
2013-01-28 05:46:28 PM
1 votes:
Smith said a change in the policy toward atheists was not being considered, and that the BSA continued to view "Duty to God" as one of its basic principles.
2013-01-28 05:41:05 PM
1 votes:
The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.
2013-01-28 05:40:04 PM
1 votes:
They'd better... or their days are numbered.
2013-01-28 05:34:22 PM
1 votes:
Organization known for short shorts and colored handkerchiefs considers ending longstanding ban on homosexuals

Rebuttal: MD Boy Scout Pack Forced to Take Down Statement Supporting Gay Members
2013-01-28 05:27:38 PM
1 votes:
Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.
2013-01-28 04:59:42 PM
1 votes:

Krieghund: Cythraul: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.

I think that anyone that would be in that situation would be more worried about shaping the next generation of leaders than upset about the assholes that are in charge today.

But it's something we've been through with women and African-Americans and all kind of once-excluded minorities. I have great respect for anyone willing to put up with the crap that comes with being an unwelcome member of an organization. Which makes me think: if they do change the rules, a (mostly) straight guy like me would have a role in being a scout leader and helping make it a welcoming organization for everyone.

Then again, they still have a problem with atheists, don't they?


Child molesters: OK
Atheists: No way

/godless heathen bastards have no place in a free Christian country
2013-01-28 04:42:30 PM
1 votes:

Teknowaffle: My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.

I don't know how the BSA lets us do this, possibly because we were a troop of over 100, and that was a lot of dues or something.


The reality is that it requires a shiathead on the committee in order to exclude people based on religion or sexual orientation.  If the troop or pack lacks such a shiathead, then it's pretty much moot.
2013-01-28 04:25:20 PM
1 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org
2013-01-28 03:54:37 PM
1 votes:

RexTalionis: They're considering it. They haven't done it yet. Until they actually decide, this is not a story.


I don't think the BSA would make an official announcement now if the change wasn't pretty sure to pass.  Next week's meeting will just formalize what's already been decided.
2013-01-28 03:28:26 PM
1 votes:
Hanky code thread?

/Remember, leave the yellow or brown handkerchiefs at home, or you'll wind up pissed and have a shiatty time.
 
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