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(CBS News)   Organization known for short shorts and colored handkerchiefs considers ending longstanding ban on homosexuals   (cbsnews.com) divider line 171
    More: Cool, educational organizations, special committee, discriminations, Boy Scouts of America  
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7823 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jan 2013 at 5:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
 
2013-01-28 03:28:26 PM
Hanky code thread?

/Remember, leave the yellow or brown handkerchiefs at home, or you'll wind up pissed and have a shiatty time.
 
2013-01-28 03:34:32 PM
Boy Scouts Reconsider Stance on Gay Members

their stance wasn't wide enough to receive those members
 
2013-01-28 03:35:00 PM
That reminds me, I haven't been the the Eagle in a while.
 
2013-01-28 03:40:19 PM
This is the one you greenlight? Bah!

From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.
 
2013-01-28 03:40:38 PM
They're considering it. They haven't done it yet. Until they actually decide, this is not a story.
 
2013-01-28 03:43:18 PM

vernonFL: That reminds me, I haven't been the the Eagle in a while.


I'll be at Otter Crossing.
 
2013-01-28 03:54:37 PM

RexTalionis: They're considering it. They haven't done it yet. Until they actually decide, this is not a story.


I don't think the BSA would make an official announcement now if the change wasn't pretty sure to pass.  Next week's meeting will just formalize what's already been decided.
 
2013-01-28 03:55:15 PM
We're here at Cub Scout troop 234's meeting where we secretly replaced the fine usual crypto-fascist reward system they usually serve in their Cub Scout Guide to Awards and Insigniabooks with The Leatherman's Handbook.

Let's see if anyone can tell the difference!

- brap recycles
 
2013-01-28 04:03:41 PM
Could be too little too late.  The problem isn't just the discriminatory policy against gheys, but the lack of any real democracy within the organization.  Fix that, then let the members vote on gay bans and religious requirements.
 
2013-01-28 04:06:54 PM
Well, clearly this will lead the way to the new Scout motto - 'Be Pre-beared'

www.freewebs.com
 
2013-01-28 04:11:01 PM

I_Am_Weasel: Well, clearly this will lead the way to the new Scout motto - 'Be Pre-beared'

[www.freewebs.com image 533x558]


fap fap fap fap fap fap
 
2013-01-28 04:24:40 PM
My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.

I don't know how the BSA lets us do this, possibly because we were a troop of over 100, and that was a lot of dues or something.
 
2013-01-28 04:25:20 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-01-28 04:28:25 PM
In other news, BSA is expected to announce several fabulous new merit badges
 
2013-01-28 04:35:05 PM

serial_crusher: Could be too little too late.  The problem isn't just the discriminatory policy against gheys, but the lack of any real democracy within the organization.  Fix that, then let the members vote on gay bans and religious requirements.


There's democracy within the organization but really only at the local level.  They do that on purpose, because if there had to be a nationwide vote on everything you'd end up with an organization as fractured as the US populace.
 
2013-01-28 04:36:20 PM

Teknowaffle: My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.

I don't know how the BSA lets us do this, possibly because we were a troop of over 100, and that was a lot of dues or something.


Muslims and Jews are A-OK by the Boy Scouts.  Maybe the gays after next week.

The godless heathens are shiat out of luck.
 
2013-01-28 04:37:28 PM

Cythraul: From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create


Teknowaffle: My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.


You'll probably end up with a varying mix of tolerant and non tolerant troops. If you don't like one, go find another, just as in Teknowaffle's example.
 
2013-01-28 04:42:30 PM

Teknowaffle: My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.

I don't know how the BSA lets us do this, possibly because we were a troop of over 100, and that was a lot of dues or something.


The reality is that it requires a shiathead on the committee in order to exclude people based on religion or sexual orientation.  If the troop or pack lacks such a shiathead, then it's pretty much moot.
 
2013-01-28 04:58:00 PM

Cythraul: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.


I think that anyone that would be in that situation would be more worried about shaping the next generation of leaders than upset about the assholes that are in charge today.

But it's something we've been through with women and African-Americans and all kind of once-excluded minorities. I have great respect for anyone willing to put up with the crap that comes with being an unwelcome member of an organization. Which makes me think: if they do change the rules, a (mostly) straight guy like me would have a role in being a scout leader and helping make it a welcoming organization for everyone.

Then again, they still have a problem with atheists, don't they?
 
2013-01-28 04:59:42 PM

Krieghund: Cythraul: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.

I think that anyone that would be in that situation would be more worried about shaping the next generation of leaders than upset about the assholes that are in charge today.

But it's something we've been through with women and African-Americans and all kind of once-excluded minorities. I have great respect for anyone willing to put up with the crap that comes with being an unwelcome member of an organization. Which makes me think: if they do change the rules, a (mostly) straight guy like me would have a role in being a scout leader and helping make it a welcoming organization for everyone.

Then again, they still have a problem with atheists, don't they?


Child molesters: OK
Atheists: No way

/godless heathen bastards have no place in a free Christian country
 
2013-01-28 05:25:19 PM
So.... The fox is going to be in charge of the chicken coop.

What could possibly go wrong?
 
2013-01-28 05:26:25 PM

I_Am_Weasel: Well, clearly this will lead the way to the new Scout motto - 'Be Pre-beared'


Well im pretty sure most gheys that would want into scouting would be more likely to be bears than fairy twinks.
 
2013-01-28 05:27:38 PM
Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.
 
2013-01-28 05:30:46 PM
They must be losing money
 
2013-01-28 05:31:39 PM
That's nice. My son will still be doing 4-H.
 
2013-01-28 05:31:40 PM
For an organization that prides itself on developing leadership skills, they're doing an amazing job displaying none.
 
2013-01-28 05:33:03 PM

Dinjiin: Cythraul: From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create

Teknowaffle: My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.

You'll probably end up with a varying mix of tolerant and non tolerant troops. If you don't like one, go find another, just as in Teknowaffle's example.


THIS. The first troop I was in was run by a chain smoker who had a grey mustache. Except under his two nostrils that were as farking yellow as the sun. Finally found another troop that was run by decent folk who were much more tolerant than the other ass clowns.
 
2013-01-28 05:33:14 PM
Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.
 
2013-01-28 05:33:26 PM
Wow awesome job Boy Scouts. Next thing you know they'll be supporting integration.
 
2013-01-28 05:33:45 PM

Teknowaffle: My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.

I don't know how the BSA lets us do this, possibly because we were a troop of over 100, and that was a lot of dues or something.


From my understanding it was a "Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies" arrangement. We had some local troops that would allow atheists but officially that wasn't allowed. My concern with my son is he'd get into it, want to move up the ranks, then some twatwaffle would pull up the religious thing.
 
2013-01-28 05:34:22 PM
Organization known for short shorts and colored handkerchiefs considers ending longstanding ban on homosexuals

Rebuttal: MD Boy Scout Pack Forced to Take Down Statement Supporting Gay Members
 
2013-01-28 05:35:20 PM

mark12A: Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.


If the scouting movement was about being a jackass, then it's time it rightfully over.
 
2013-01-28 05:36:50 PM
 
2013-01-28 05:39:07 PM

Sarsin: mark12A: Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.

If the scouting movement was about being a jackass, then it's time it rightfully over.


I think he's referring to the overall system in place which teaches kids good morals(minus the gay hatred), good citizenship, etc etc. The Higher structure bans on the gheys is extremely disappointing.
 
2013-01-28 05:39:42 PM
Now that they're going to let in gays, are they going to flush out the pedophiles?

/They've been on an exchange program with the catholic church.
 
2013-01-28 05:40:04 PM
They'd better... or their days are numbered.
 
2013-01-28 05:41:05 PM
The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.
 
2013-01-28 05:41:36 PM

madgonad: Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.


And nothing of value would be lost.

And the kids who really wanted to stick with scouts would find another troop pretty fast.
 
2013-01-28 05:41:43 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Krieghund: Cythraul: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.

I think that anyone that would be in that situation would be more worried about shaping the next generation of leaders than upset about the assholes that are in charge today.

But it's something we've been through with women and African-Americans and all kind of once-excluded minorities. I have great respect for anyone willing to put up with the crap that comes with being an unwelcome member of an organization. Which makes me think: if they do change the rules, a (mostly) straight guy like me would have a role in being a scout leader and helping make it a welcoming organization for everyone.

Then again, they still have a problem with atheists, don't they?

Child molesters: OK
Atheists: No way

/godless heathen bastards have no place in a free Christian country


I consider myself Agnostic personally. I was not raised around religion and my family did not attend church. When I was young I was in the cub scouts and ultimately was not allowed to progress due to being unable to complete several of the sections involving religion as my family did not practice any organized religion. Frankly I have no desire to support  such an organization in any way. The girl scouts on the other hand appear to be fully inclusive and frankly sell a better product for fundraising so they have my full support

/seriously popcorn?
 
2013-01-28 05:41:56 PM
They are not considering ending the ban, they are considering allowing each chartering org to ban or permit gay kids/leaders.

If your local troop meets in a church basement odds are that church is the chartering org for that troop.

Considering how many troops are owned/chartered by evangelical/catholic/mormon churches hardly a damn thing will change even if they go through with what they are considering.
 
2013-01-28 05:42:26 PM

upndn: So.... The fox is going to be in charge of the chicken coop.

What could possibly go wrong?


It's the ones in the closet that will continue to be a problem.
 
2013-01-28 05:46:28 PM
Smith said a change in the policy toward atheists was not being considered, and that the BSA continued to view "Duty to God" as one of its basic principles.
 
2013-01-28 05:46:35 PM

Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.


That's why you go camping where there aren't bears!

/Ba dum CHING!
//Tip your waitress, try the veal
 
2013-01-28 05:46:35 PM

LazarusLong42: madgonad: Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.

And nothing of value would be lost.

And the kids who really wanted to stick with scouts would find another troop pretty fast.


This I am OK with. Seperate the church from the troops and I will be 100% OK with that decision.
 
2013-01-28 05:46:43 PM
Still no cure for shiatty popcorn.
 
2013-01-28 05:47:30 PM

mark12A: Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.


Well, another hate-filled bigot exposes himself.
 
2013-01-28 05:48:03 PM

Oldiron_79: I_Am_Weasel: Well, clearly this will lead the way to the new Scout motto - 'Be Pre-beared'

Well im pretty sure most gheys that would want into scouting would be more likely to be bears than fairy twinks.


The guy that taught us first aid said we should bring...maxipads while camping. Just in case.

/good for soaking up blood
//didn't bring any
 
2013-01-28 05:48:42 PM

I_Am_Weasel: Well, clearly this will lead the way to the new Scout motto - 'Be Pre-beared'


I read that and Scar singing in the Lion King popped into my head. Hhhmmmm
 
2013-01-28 05:51:38 PM
Not if the Mormons in charge have anything to say about it.

//Or is that largely a Western US thing?
 
2013-01-28 05:53:24 PM

PanicMan: Smith said a change in the policy toward atheists was not being considered, and that the BSA continued to view "Duty to God" as one of its basic principles.


I always had a burning questions about this.The by-laws say you can believe in any religion, but you have to be theistic in some way.

What if I decide to believe in an evil deity? Can I be an evil Boy Scout? Would I be forced to grow a goatee so they could tell me from the normal scouts?
 
2013-01-28 05:53:38 PM
I'm fairly certain that one of my Scoutmasters was a peter puffer. It didn't matter since he would have been one of the first to eviscerate any molester.

/military troops FTW
//can't beat having Navy SEALs as scoutmasters
 
2013-01-28 05:53:40 PM
"the chartered organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting would accept membership and select leaders consistent with each organization's mission, principles, or religious beliefs."

Well, it's a start, I guess.

Still think the Boy Scouts are gross (not the individual scouts, of course, just the organization). Girl Scouts was amazingly important to me as a kid and I always assumed the Boy Scouts was just the same. I was shocked to learn what a bunch of assholes it was run by.
 
2013-01-28 05:57:41 PM
Brokeback Scouting?
 
2013-01-28 05:58:51 PM
You can be a Boy Scout in good standing and believe in one God named Yahweh, or in the 33 gods of the Hindu Vedas. Or in Thor and Woden; or in a god who set the universe in motion but hasn't touched it since. You can be "spiritual but not religious" and have vague warm feelings that there's probably some fuzzy warm creature out there who cares about you, and be a Boy Scout in good standing. You can be a Buddhist and not actually believe in a personal God and still be a Boy Scout in good standing because, well, let's just say theology is not the BSA's strong point. You can believe in a God who considers death by bear mauling to be an appropriate punishment for children who tease an old man about his baldness, and be a Boy Scout in good standing.

You cannot say "I'm honestly not sure if God exists" and be a Boy Scout in good standing.

You cannot say "I do not believe in the existence of an omnipotent supernatural being" and be a Boy Scout in good standing. Even if you avoid torturing kittens and routinely help little old ladies across the street.

Let me know when that situation changes, BSA, before you expect me to be impressed.
 
2013-01-28 06:00:04 PM

LaraAmber: That's nice. My son will still be doing 4-H.


I'd get my kids involved, but I remember it was pretty religious backed growing up, at least in rural Michigan.
 
2013-01-28 06:01:24 PM

Cythraul: This is the one you greenlight? Bah!

From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.


So the BSA is gay for pay. Seems more like a business and not an organization.
 
2013-01-28 06:02:03 PM

Tridentata: You can be a Boy Scout in good standing and believe in one God named Yahweh, or in the 33 gods of the Hindu Vedas. Or in Thor and Woden; or in a god who set the universe in motion but hasn't touched it since. You can be "spiritual but not religious" and have vague warm feelings that there's probably some fuzzy warm creature out there who cares about you, and be a Boy Scout in good standing. You can be a Buddhist and not actually believe in a personal God and still be a Boy Scout in good standing because, well, let's just say theology is not the BSA's strong point. You can believe in a God who considers death by bear mauling to be an appropriate punishment for children who tease an old man about his baldness, and be a Boy Scout in good standing.

You cannot say "I'm honestly not sure if God exists" and be a Boy Scout in good standing.

You cannot say "I do not believe in the existence of an omnipotent supernatural being" and be a Boy Scout in good standing. Even if you avoid torturing kittens and routinely help little old ladies across the street.

Let me know when that situation changes, BSA, before you expect me to be impressed.


I don't remember all that much of a religious background to scouts honestly. Probably because our sponsor was a VFW hall. And my memory from 17 years ago isn't the greatest.
 
2013-01-28 06:05:06 PM
Whatever happened to the idea of "If you don't like that group let's start our own group so we can be more inclusive then the original group."?
 
2013-01-28 06:06:22 PM
See y'all at next year's Jamboree.  I'll be in my bunk.
 
2013-01-28 06:06:33 PM
Catholic?
 
2013-01-28 06:08:56 PM

Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.


Here is one thing I don't understand about the whole controversy. Why are you (the general you, not Thisbymaster specifically) leaving your kids alone with ANY adult you don't know really well? When I was in competitive dance as a kid and we traveled to other towns there were always several parents in attendance, not just one. I don't think my parents ever left me somewhere where there weren't multiple other parents keeping an eye on the kids.
 
2013-01-28 06:09:57 PM

meat0918: LaraAmber: That's nice. My son will still be doing 4-H.

I'd get my kids involved, but I remember it was pretty religious backed growing up, at least in rural Michigan.


4H is run by rural people. Rural people tend to be church going. It comes with the territory. The upside is you aren't going to have a bunch of worthless shiat stains who are there just to fark things up for others.
 
2013-01-28 06:11:21 PM
southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com
 
2013-01-28 06:15:24 PM

Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.


You know, I've heard stories from former members that indicated the older youths, not necessarily the troop leaders, were also culpable for serious abuses of members under the guise of hazing.

I'm wondering when those stories will get more national media attention, mostly because fear sells and people really don't like the Boy Scouts all that much anymore.
 
2013-01-28 06:16:27 PM
They're just trying to be good role model for young men. They're saying to young men...

"See? You don't need to have principles and the courage to stand by them. You can be mealy mouthed and say "Don't look at me, ask him what think".

Deferring the policy to local units is even worse than having a bigoted national policy.
 
2013-01-28 06:17:11 PM
RAINBOW COUNCIL illinois, represent

/it was fabulous
//they really need to get past this sex/religion barrier
 
2013-01-28 06:18:47 PM
My scouting years led to my sense of entitlement as a baby boomer. Our scout master would give us a test fro a bronze badge and then give us the gold. I had my gold chain in my second year.

Is there a defined pension for ex-scouts?
 
2013-01-28 06:19:12 PM

sleeper2995:

So the BSA is gay for pay. Seems more like a business and not an organization.


All religious groups are ______for pay. (Fill in the blank). It's their Raison d'être.
 
2013-01-28 06:20:16 PM

sleeper2995: Whatever happened to the idea of "If you don't like that group let's start our own group so we can be more inclusive then the original group."?


Will your New.organization receive.the same considerations from local and national gov't? Free, priority access to public spaces? A jamboree funded by the military? Automatic promotions for.members of a certain rank who join the military? When that happens, sure.
 
2013-01-28 06:21:05 PM
The BSA is a private organization and free to set its membership requirements as it sees fit. I fully support their right to be bigots, though I vehemently disagree.

That being said, your sexual orientation has absolutely no bearing on your ability to be a good member of your community. Same with the belief or disbelief in a supreme being, though that requirement's going to take longer to remove, I bet.
 
2013-01-28 06:21:26 PM
more precisely, neckerchief. handkerchief's gayer sibling.
 
2013-01-28 06:22:37 PM
Sorry bout the periods. Darn mobile keypad.
 
2013-01-28 06:24:03 PM

meat0918: LaraAmber: That's nice. My son will still be doing 4-H.

I'd get my kids involved, but I remember it was pretty religious backed growing up, at least in rural Michigan.


Here was your first problem.

O...H...
 
2013-01-28 06:26:40 PM

madgonad: Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.


I don't think so. The LDS Church has recently softened it's stance on homosexuality. They are beginning to realize that:

A) This is not a passing fancy, the world is growing more tolerant of gay people and they will only be more marginalized if they continue to be hardliners
B) There are real, financial consequences to continuing to discriminate.
C) Gay people aren't so bad.

Plus, LDS has the doctrine, unique among other major monotheistic religions, of present day revelation. They have a prophet who can speak with the authority of God and overturn previous doctrine. It's not just a matter of reinterpreting scripture like other Christian sects, but new codified laws. The "revelations" ending polygamy and allowing black people into the priesthood may be obviously politically motivated, but they are also useful precedents.
 
2013-01-28 06:28:15 PM
I am having some wicked flashbacks of intoning the word Reverant in a deadpan voice right now. Woah where did that come from?!
 
2013-01-28 06:29:46 PM
Leatherwork merit badge requirements


Identify and demonstrate to your counselor the safe use of leatherworking tools. Show correct procedures for handling leathercraft dyes, cements, and finished. Know first aid for cuts, internal poisoning, and skin irritation.
Explain to your counselor

a. Where leather comes from
b. What kinds of hides are used to make leather
c. What are five types of leather
d. What are the best uses for each type of leather

Make one or more articles of leather that use at least five of the following steps:

a. Pattern layout and transfer
b. Cutting leather
c. Punching holes
d. Carving or stamping surface designs.
e. Applying dye or stain and finish to the project.
f. Assembly by lacing or stitching
g. Setting snaps and rivets
h. Dressing edges

Recondition or show that you can take proper care of your shoes, a baseball glove, a saddle, assless chaps, cock rings, whips, furniture or other articles of leather.
Do ONE of the following:

a. Learn about the commercial tanning process. Report about it to your merit badge counselor.
b. Tan the skin of a small animal. Describe the safety precautions you will take and the tanning method that you used.
c. Braid or plait an article out of leather or vinyl lace.
d. Visit a leather-related business. This could be a leathercraft supply company, a tannery, a leather goods or shoe factory, a saddle shop, or any bar named "The Eagle". Report on your visit to your counselor.
 
2013-01-28 06:31:21 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Hanky code thread?

/Remember, leave the yellow or brown handkerchiefs at home, or you'll wind up pissed and have a shiatty time.


It's the red neckerchiefs that REALLY bother me.
 
2013-01-28 06:32:27 PM

ArgusRun: madgonad: Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.

I don't think so. The LDS Church has recently softened it's stance on homosexuality. They are beginning to realize that:

A) This is not a passing fancy, the world is growing more tolerant of gay people and they will only be more marginalized if they continue to be hardliners
B) There are real, financial consequences to continuing to discriminate.
C) Gay people aren't so bad.

Plus, LDS has the doctrine, unique among other major monotheistic religions, of present day revelation. They have a prophet who can speak with the authority of God and overturn previous doctrine. It's not just a matter of reinterpreting scripture like other Christian sects, but new codified laws. The "revelations" ending polygamy and allowing black people into the priesthood may be obviously politically motivated, but they are also useful precedents.


You'd think God wouldn't change His mind so much, but yeah. Honestly, LDS theology is radically different from just about every other major religion. Even calling it monotheistic could be debated...

That being said, I'm glad to see they're moving in that direction. The LDS church is a powerful force for good in the world, though the vast majority of Saints somehow seem to equate "good" with "voting Republican" even though doctrinally they don't agree with a large swath of what the Republican Party espouses. What's more interesting is that a huge portion of the Religious Right, which makes up the Republican base, didn't generally consider the LDS churches Christian until it became politically expedient.

(Not that I'm Mormon or even religious. I just like to study religion. I have nothing against the LDS church (churches, really, since there are active schismatics).)
 
2013-01-28 06:35:09 PM

Lord Dimwit: The BSA is a private organization and free to set its membership requirements as it sees fit. I fully support their right to be bigots, though I vehemently disagree.


Just as long as you're OK with them losing their sweetheart deals with the military, the Federal, State and local governments, front-of-the-line access to public lands and so on.
 
2013-01-28 06:37:34 PM

anuran: It's the red neckerchiefs that REALLY bother me.


No kidding.  Everyone knows that red is the color of pure communism.
 
2013-01-28 06:42:15 PM
Where does scoutmaster fit on this chart?

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-01-28 06:42:15 PM

LaraAmber: meat0918: LaraAmber: That's nice. My son will still be doing 4-H.

I'd get my kids involved, but I remember it was pretty religious backed growing up, at least in rural Michigan.

Here was your first problem.

O...H...


Oh I know.

I live in the city now, and in one of the most secular states (Oregon). It seems to have concentrated the religiosity into a more aggressive form though.

We have a 4-H club in Eugene though.
 
2013-01-28 06:42:46 PM
Well, I hope they do. Then maybe, I'd trust them around kids more. I don't know why, but for some reason it seems like the more homophobic an organization is, the more likely its members are to molest children.
 
2013-01-28 06:49:10 PM
As a former scout, and a cub and boy scout father(and assistant den leader, wife is the leader), I say good.

/atheist
 
2013-01-28 06:52:37 PM

BarkingUnicorn: RexTalionis: They're considering it. They haven't done it yet. Until they actually decide, this is not a story.

I don't think the BSA would make an official announcement now if the change wasn't pretty sure to pass.  Next week's meeting will just formalize what's already been decided.


Even if it doesn't pass, the mere fact that they're considering it alone is a sign of progress.

The times, they are a-changin'
 
2013-01-28 06:53:47 PM

I_Am_Weasel: Well, clearly this will lead the way to the new Scout motto - 'Be Pre-beared'

[www.freewebs.com image 533x558]


I'm waiting for the new Scout handbook, What to do if you Encounter Bears in the Wild.
 
2013-01-28 06:55:35 PM
The DERP on my local newspaper's facebook page about this is hilarious. There are people threatening to take their kids out of the local scout troop because they don't want them molested by gay men and teens.
 
2013-01-28 06:58:02 PM

ArgusRun: madgonad: Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.

I don't think so. The LDS Church has recently softened it's stance on homosexuality. They are beginning to realize that:

A) This is not a passing fancy, the world is growing more tolerant of gay people and they will only be more marginalized if they continue to be hardliners
B) There are real, financial consequences to continuing to discriminate.
C) Gay people aren't so bad.

Plus, LDS has the doctrine, unique among other major monotheistic religions, of present day revelation. They have a prophet who can speak with the authority of God and overturn previous doctrine. It's not just a matter of reinterpreting scripture like other Christian sects, but new codified laws. The "revelations" ending polygamy and allowing black people into the priesthood may be obviously politically motivated, but they are also useful precedents.


Ding ding ding!!!


The LDS and their recent change is directly correlated to the Scouts new stance.
 
2013-01-28 07:00:05 PM

truthseeker2083: I_Am_Weasel: Well, clearly this will lead the way to the new Scout motto - 'Be Pre-beared'

I read that and Scar singing in the Lion King popped into my head. Hhhmmmm


You too?

/great minds and all
 
2013-01-28 07:04:46 PM
Oh, I thought this was going to be about Hooters.
 
2013-01-28 07:12:51 PM
This makes sense. Scouts are supposed to be preparing kids for the military. Gays are allowed now. Best to keep up if they don't fancy obsolescence.
 
2013-01-28 07:14:29 PM

Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.


You've never seen a fiercer pedophile-hunter than an out, proud gay man and his husband. The derp that 'gay = pederast' is like that minority's version of 'blacks will rape white women' or 'Jews use the blood of Christian babies in ceremonies.' They hate it, and to that end they are much, much tougher on pedophiles than mere straight people. And some gay people own guns and are proud 'shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out' conservatives whose response to finding kiddie porn will not so much be calling the cops to arrest the perp as the coroner to clean up the mess.

I can't see this as anything but a good idea.
 
2013-01-28 07:20:22 PM
Great, Another fine organization gives in to the perversion. "OK boys and girl wannabe's, time for another funnnn camp out with old Jerry. Just think, had they done this 10 years ago Sandusky wouldn't have had to waste all his effort in those showers at Penn State.
 
2013-01-28 07:23:02 PM

SpiderQueenDemon: Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.

You've never seen a fiercer pedophile-hunter than an out, proud gay man and his husband. The derp that 'gay = pederast' is like that minority's version of 'blacks will rape white women' or 'Jews use the blood of Christian babies in ceremonies.' They hate it, and to that end they are much, much tougher on pedophiles than mere straight people. And some gay people own guns and are proud 'shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out' conservatives whose response to finding kiddie porn will not so much be calling the cops to arrest the perp as the coroner to clean up the mess.

I can't see this as anything but a good idea.


While this may be true, you will have never seen a fiercer child hunter than a homosexual pedophile scout leader in the woods with a bunch of young impressionable boys.
 
2013-01-28 07:30:24 PM

Terrydatroll: SpiderQueenDemon: Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.

You've never seen a fiercer pedophile-hunter than an out, proud gay man and his husband. The derp that 'gay = pederast' is like that minority's version of 'blacks will rape white women' or 'Jews use the blood of Christian babies in ceremonies.' They hate it, and to that end they are much, much tougher on pedophiles than mere straight people. And some gay people own guns and are proud 'shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out' conservatives whose response to finding kiddie porn will not so much be calling the cops to arrest the perp as the coroner to clean up the mess.

I can't see this as anything but a good idea.

While this may be true, you will have never seen a fiercer child hunter than a homosexual pedophile scout leader in the woods with a bunch of young impressionable boys.


False.  Catholic priests and altar boys will still exist.
 
2013-01-28 07:30:42 PM

Terrydatroll: While this may be true, you will have never seen a fiercer child hunter than a homosexual pedophile scout leader in the woods with a bunch of young impressionable boys.


And they're perfectly capable of acting straight in order to get that access. Just ask your previously mentioned Jerry Sandusky.
 
2013-01-28 07:30:49 PM

Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.


Not sure if serious.
 
2013-01-28 07:31:11 PM
They put a black kid in their ad too.
Dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!


imageshack.us
 
2013-01-28 07:34:37 PM

snowjack: They put a black kid in their ad too.
Dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!


[imageshack.us image 450x340]


I'm trying to tell if that's shooped. The black kids shirt doesn't have any badges on it. Even if it isn't I'm guessing black kids are so rare they couldn't find one the same height as the others.
 
2013-01-28 07:37:50 PM

anuran: FirstNationalBastard: Hanky code thread?

/Remember, leave the yellow or brown handkerchiefs at home, or you'll wind up pissed and have a shiatty time.

It's the red neckerchiefs that REALLY bother me.


I'm from Mississippi and i could not agree more
 
2013-01-28 07:38:20 PM

Smeggy Smurf: I'm fairly certain that one of my Scoutmasters was a peter puffer.


But that doesn't really go to his character. The real question, as regards his fitness to be a role model for young men, is this: was he the kind of guy who would fark a person in the ass and not even have the goddamn common courtesy to give him a reach-around?
 
2013-01-28 07:43:36 PM
www.orgsites.com

That is all.
 
2013-01-28 07:45:38 PM

madgonad: Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-28 07:48:56 PM

12349876: snowjack: They put a black kid in their ad too.
Dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!


[imageshack.us image 450x340]

I'm trying to tell if that's shooped. The black kids shirt doesn't have any badges on it. Even if it isn't I'm guessing black kids are so rare they couldn't find one the same height as the others.


I shooped in "MORMON" over the word "SCOUT" 'cause that's what it was about when I was a kid (in the '80s) Someone else might'a shooped him in there, but it wasn't me. :-)
 
2013-01-28 07:51:07 PM
Oh this is horrible. Up until now it was perfectly safe to leave your kids in the care of a strange man of unknown sexual predilection dressed in a scout uniform.
 
2013-01-28 07:53:21 PM
I don't remember any religion in my scouting outside the oath. But I grew up in wealthy suburbs full of educated people.

Still not sure why this is even an issue, aren't most scout leaders parents of scouts? When did we let homogays have kids?
 
2013-01-28 08:02:17 PM

mark12A: Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.


Uh, just for your info, there are other countries in the world besides the U.S.
 
2013-01-28 08:05:01 PM
And the resident FarkLibtards STILL are unhappy.
 
2013-01-28 08:11:21 PM

Cythraul: This is the one you greenlight? Bah!

From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.


At the local level (where it really matters) most troops outside of the deep south and Utah won't have a problem with a gay scout leader so long as he's not actively pushing a gay agenda. At the end of the day we're trying to find people to help teach our sons to be responsible, caring adults who are a bit more prepared for life than your average person, politics be damned. Hell, at the summer camp I attended in rural Pennsylvania near the WV border the service was decidedly non-christian despite the fact that the chaplin was obviously of christian faith.
 
2013-01-28 08:13:06 PM

snowjack: 12349876: snowjack: They put a black kid in their ad too.
Dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!


[imageshack.us image 450x340]

I'm trying to tell if that's shooped. The black kids shirt doesn't have any badges on it. Even if it isn't I'm guessing black kids are so rare they couldn't find one the same height as the others.

I shooped in "MORMON" over the word "SCOUT" 'cause that's what it was about when I was a kid (in the '80s) Someone else might'a shooped him in there, but it wasn't me. :-)


I didn't think it was you. I was thinking it was something the Mormons would do. Something akin to this.
www.chilloutpoint.com
 
2013-01-28 08:13:57 PM

Martstar: [www.orgsites.com image 746x746]

That is all.


www.freeimagehosting.net

FTFY

 
2013-01-28 08:26:56 PM
people shouldnt be worried of the boyscouts, they should be more concerned of effeminate english butlers
Link

They pray on the young with their enticing fun kits
Link
 
2013-01-28 08:30:48 PM

Cythraul: This is the one you greenlight? Bah!

From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.


Because God and Jeebus can't print money on their own.
 
2013-01-28 08:31:31 PM

InterruptingQuirk: Martstar: [www.orgsites.com image 746x746]

That is all.

[www.freeimagehosting.net image 746x746]FTFY


We Be Moslem Scouts?
 
2013-01-28 08:40:06 PM

Well Armed Sheep: sleeper2995: Whatever happened to the idea of "If you don't like that group let's start our own group so we can be more inclusive then the original group."?

Will your New.organization receive.the same considerations from local and national gov't? Free, priority access to public spaces? A jamboree funded by the military? Automatic promotions for.members of a certain rank who join the military? When that happens, sure.


Yes because we will have multicultural organization that will cater to everyone's specific needs of exclusion and inclusion.
 
2013-01-28 08:56:22 PM

God-is-a-Taco: They must be losing money


Yup. Their principles are strong up until the money runs out, then the revelation magically appears.

Douchebags.
 
2013-01-28 08:57:23 PM

cynicalbastard: mark12A: Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.

Uh, just for your info, there are other countries in the world besides the U.S.


There's already Scouting for All.
 
2013-01-28 08:58:48 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: In other news, BSA is expected to announce several fabulous new merit badges


Showtunes.

Fab Abs.

Tweezing.

Golden Girl.
 
2013-01-28 09:03:36 PM

ArgusRun: madgonad: Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.

I don't think so. The LDS Church has recently softened it's stance on homosexuality. They are beginning to realize that:

A) This is not a passing fancy, the world is growing more tolerant of gay people and they will only be more marginalized if they continue to be hardliners
B) There are real, financial consequences to continuing to discriminate.
C) Gay people aren't so bad.

Plus, LDS has the doctrine, unique among other major monotheistic religions, of present day revelation. They have a prophet who can speak with the authority of God and overturn previous doctrine. It's not just a matter of reinterpreting scripture like other Christian sects, but new codified laws. The "revelations" ending polygamy and allowing black people into the priesthood may be obviously politically motivated, but they are also useful precedents.


I already have a number of excommunicated Mormons who are gay and are really emotionally farked up because their family and social networks shunned them.

What a way to share "god's love".

Two-faced Hypocrites©
 
2013-01-28 09:17:54 PM
amquelbettamin:
Where does scoutmaster fit on this chart?

[Linnaean taxonomy of gays]


Until I looked closer I thought the "DILF" was wearing a Half-Life t-shirt and I was like, hey, it's the gay version of me.

/gay me seems better-looking somehow :P
 
2013-01-28 09:29:23 PM
It's about time they make this official policy. Troops I had experience with growing up ignored the exclusionary policy anyway. In troops in three different states we had openly atheist members, including myself, an agnostic, and no one cared a whit. Though I honestly don't remember any openly gay members, I also don't remember any specific proscriptions against them in our troops.
 
2013-01-28 09:52:01 PM
I dunno, it doesn't say they're banning discrimination, but that they're letting local chapters decide. Not really that much of an improvement.


rocketpants: madgonad: Can anyone else hear the Mormon Church gathering up their bases, balls, and bats and going home?

Seriously - if this is the case, thousands of troops will cease to exist on the following day.

[i.imgur.com image 300x200]


^^^ This. fark'em if they're too stupid to know the difference between Pedo's and gay men.
 
2013-01-28 10:12:02 PM

mark12A: Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.


CRY MOAR
 
2013-01-28 10:49:37 PM

Lord Dimwit: The BSA is a private organization and free to set its membership requirements as it sees fit. I fully support their right to be bigots, though I vehemently disagree.


That is the reasoning Chief Asshole Rehnquist applied in BSA v Dale, allowing him to stick it to the filthy homos after they'd won in New Jersey. Justice Stevens noted in his astonished dissent how utterly spurious Rehnquist's logic was:

The majority...finds that BSA in fact " `teach[es] that homosexual conduct is not morally straight.' " This conclusion, remarkably, rests entirely on statements in BSA's briefs. (citing Brief for Petitioners 39; Reply Brief for Petitioners 5)....So long as the record "contains written evidence" to support a group's bare assertion, "[w]e need not inquire further."...

This is an astounding view of the law. I am unaware of any previous instance in which our analysis of the scope of a constitutional right was determined by looking at what a litigant asserts in his or her brief and inquiring no further. It is even more astonishing in the First Amendment area, because, as the majority itself acknowledges, "we are obligated to independently review the factual record." It is an odd form of independent review that consists of deferring entirely to whatever a litigant claims....

More critically, that inquiry requires our independent analysis, rather than deference to a group's litigating posture....

Surely there are instances in which an organization that truly aims to foster a belief at odds with the purposes of a State's antidiscrimination laws will have a First Amendment right to association that precludes forced compliance with those laws. But that right is not a freedom to discriminate at will, nor is it a right to maintain an exclusionary membership policy simply out of fear of what the public reaction would be if the group's membership were opened up. It is an implicit right designed to protect the enumerated rights of the First Amendment, not a license to act on any discriminatory impulse.

...If this Court were to defer to whatever position an organization is prepared to assert in its briefs, there would be no way to mark the proper boundary between genuine exercises of the right to associate, on the one hand, and sham claims that are simply attempts to insulate nonexpressive private discrimination, on the other hand. Shielding a litigant's claim from judicial scrutiny would, in turn, render civil rights legislation a nullity, and turn this important constitutional right into a farce.


[internal citations omitted, emphasis mine]
 
2013-01-28 10:50:49 PM

meat0918: Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.

You know, I've heard stories from former members that indicated the older youths, not necessarily the troop leaders, were also culpable for serious abuses of members under the guise of hazing.

I'm wondering when those stories will get more national media attention, mostly because fear sells and people really don't like the Boy Scouts all that much anymore.


The last troop I was in during junior high had a bunch of high school sociopaths that hazed the hell out of the younger Scouts. One guy I remember was in retrospect working through some issues, as I remember him carving a stick into a wooden dildo and poking other kids in the butt with it.
 
2013-01-28 10:53:39 PM

mark12A: Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.


"WAAAAHHHHHH, stop being intolerant of my intolerance! Let me discriminate against who I want to because my ancient created-and-messed-up-by-humans belief system tells me too! I believe everything about gay being the same as pedophile, all man-lovers only want little boy dick!"

Thank you for being Exhibit A in the retard pavilion. Please pick up your check, leave immediately, and never darken our doorstep again.
 
2013-01-28 11:02:26 PM
The BSA has already explicitly foreclosed this option.

BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA FEBRUARY 6, 2002 RESOLUTION

1.WHEREAS, the Resolutions Committee of the Boy Scouts of America (on behalf of the
Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America) on June 1, 2001, assigned the Relationships
Committee of the Boy Scouts of America with the responsibility for considering and making recommendations to the Executive Board with respect to various resolutions submitted by members of the National Council at the annual meeting concerning the appropriate flexibility to be employed by the Boy Scouts of America in establishing standards for leadership; and

2.WHEREAS, the Relationships Committee duly formed a Task Force on Resolutions, composed of a cross section of representatives from religious and civic chartered organizations and others represented in Scouting, to consider these resolutions and make recommendations to the Relationships Committee; and

3.WHEREAS, the Task Force has reported the results of its thoughtful and extensive deliberations to
the Relationships Committee, which submitted the report to the Relationships/Marketing Group Committee, both of these committees having approved and adopted the Report of the Task Force on Resolutions as their own; and

4.WHEREAS, the national officers, having received and considered the Report, unanimously
adopt the recommendations of the Report without reservation; and

5.WHEREAS, the national officers agree with the report that "duty to God is not a mere ideal for those
choosing to associate with the Boy Scouts of America; it is an obligation," which has defined good character for youth of Scouting age throughout Scouting's 92-year history and that the Boy Scouts of America has made a commitment "to provide faith-based values to its constituency in a respectful manner;" and

6.WHEREAS, the national officers agree that "conduct of both Scouts and Scouters must be in compliance with the Scout Oath and Law" and that "membership is contingent upon one's willingness to accept the values and standards espoused by the Boy Scouts of America," and

7.WHEREAS the national officers further agree that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the
traditional values espoused in the Scout Oath and Law and that an avowed homosexual cannot
serve as a role model for the values of the Oath and Law; and


8.WHEREAS, the national officers reaffirm that, as a national organization whose very reason for existence is to instill and reinforce values in youth, the BSA's values cannot be subject to local option choices, but must be the same in every unit; and

9.WHEREAS, the Boy Scouts of America respects the right of persons and individuals to hold values
and standards different than the Boy Scouts of America, the national officers also agree that the Boy
Scouts of America is entitled to expect that persons and organizations with different values and standards will nevertheless respect those of the Boy Scouts of America;

10.THEREFORE, the national officers recommend the National Executive Board affirm that the Boy
Scouts of America shall continue to follow its traditional values and standards of leadership.
 
2013-01-28 11:06:14 PM
biggeek assless chaps, cock rings, whips

"Assless chaps"? Meaning chaps that don't cover the ass? There's actually a name for those. They're called "chaps".
 
2013-01-29 12:00:20 AM

semiotix: Smeggy Smurf: I'm fairly certain that one of my Scoutmasters was a peter puffer.

But that doesn't really go to his character. The real question, as regards his fitness to be a role model for young men, is this: was he the kind of guy who would fark a person in the ass and not even have the goddamn common courtesy to give him a reach-around?


Beats me about his character. We only cared that he's the one that taught us how to make napalm and to store it in small glass vials in case we needed a firestarter that would work in any weather.
 
2013-01-29 12:04:06 AM
Mormons, Xtian Fundies and Catholics. When it comes to societal principles, in my opinion these groups need to be marginalized. Let their members feed and clothe all the poor they want to (without enforcing belief as a qualification for aid) if it makes 'em feel better, but they really don't need to be out and about during the daylight.

We get it. You've got a book that teaches you how to be better people. We can read that book, too - and skip over the parts that would teach us to be dicks to fellow humans.
 
2013-01-29 12:11:06 AM

Cythraul: This is the one you greenlight? Bah!

From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.


Other way around, really. They lost the United Way, Bank of America, and countless other six and seven figure donors to keep the LDS happy. And now we have a generation of boys and girls who don't find anything wrong with someone having two dads or two moms and can't relate the BSA's homophobia. Basically, this is where a lot of us after the Dale case get to point at National Council and say "Yeah, we all told all y'all this would happen."
 
2013-01-29 12:24:10 AM
A lesbian scout leader was ousted? Isn't that the safest person to have around young males?
 
2013-01-29 12:24:26 AM

Teknowaffle: My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.

I don't know how the BSA lets us do this, possibly because we were a troop of over 100, and that was a lot of dues or something.


TL;DR: There's about a brazillion:1 ratio when it comes to district staff, and district staff only handles an area of a few neighborhoods in a big city or a few towns in rural areas, ergo, National Council is pretty much kidding themselves if they think they have much control in practice beyond what color the cover on the next edition of the Boy Scout Handbook's going to be.

Because it's a hierarchical system, and your local council is probably more concerned with making sure units are getting the program right rather than alienating rank and file membership and/or the adults playing logistics for those units to placate some old farts in Irving (National Council) and/or Salt Lake City (the Mormons). It's also not like every unit has a district or council exec hovering over them 24/7; Cascade Pacific Council's pretty big but the CE/DE staff is like, six people, covering pretty much all of Oregon and parts of Washington State. Having a DE drop in on a meeting is darn near a once-in-a-decade experience and I've yet to see a CE outside a council office that I can recall.
 
2013-01-29 12:25:03 AM

Lsherm: serial_crusher: Could be too little too late.  The problem isn't just the discriminatory policy against gheys, but the lack of any real democracy within the organization.  Fix that, then let the members vote on gay bans and religious requirements.

There's democracy within the organization but really only at the local level.  They do that on purpose, because if there had to be a nationwide vote on everything you'd end up with an organization as fractured as the US populace.


Pretty much already is that anyway.
 
2013-01-29 12:25:28 AM

Lsherm: Teknowaffle: My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.

I don't know how the BSA lets us do this, possibly because we were a troop of over 100, and that was a lot of dues or something.

Muslims and Jews are A-OK by the Boy Scouts.  Maybe the gays after next week.

The godless heathens are shiat out of luck.


Atheists are the new gays.
 
2013-01-29 12:35:24 AM

Lsherm: Teknowaffle: My troop let in gays, atheists, muslims, jews. We had some of everything in there, and if parents had a problem with it, they were told to send their kid to the shiatty troop across town.

I don't know how the BSA lets us do this, possibly because we were a troop of over 100, and that was a lot of dues or something.

Muslims and Jews are A-OK by the Boy Scouts.  Maybe the gays after next week.

The godless heathens are shiat out of luck.


Not necessarily. Buddhists and people following various native american paths are included. The point of that isn't so much expression of any specific faith so much as you have faith in something and can solve a moral dilemma for yourself by it. Sean Penn makes a pretty compelling case for signing off on demonstrating Scout spirit the atheist way (basically, he says he rapes and kills all he wants to already because the amount of rape he wants is zero, and the amount of killing he wants to do is zero).
 
2013-01-29 12:37:03 AM
I was in Boy Scouts as I grew up from Cubs to Explorers. Later, I became a Scout Master. I noticed several troops where the Scoutmasters let little thugs intimidate the weaker scouts, creating an unhappy troop and Scoutmasters who were really by the book.

Some were not so good, but at least they tried when no one else would.

I don't have a problem with gay kids entering Scouts. I do figure there is potential for some problems down the way, which will be blown out of proportion by the press, kind of like if you mixed a troop of Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts.

Older scouts are starting to enter puberty. On mixed camps, where Boy Scouts were at one end of a big camp ground and Girl Scouts at the other, we had the inevitable groups sneaking off at night to see what they could see about the opposite sex.

Gays are basically already in with the 'opposite sex' and no doubt they'll be attracted to some of the kids. Hopefully, Scoutmasters will enforce new rules forbidding any form of sexual contact. All it has to do is happen once and the lawsuits will explode.

I grew up through segregation. I was there during the battle for Equal Rights. I was in school when the schools started becoming desegregated. I recall the assorted names used for Black people and the hostilities.

I also started the first, and, as far as I know, only mixed race Boy Scout Troop in my town and met with no resistance from anyone. I actually found I got more help from the Black parents than the White. I did loose a handful of white kids, but not many.

I did not find the Black and White kids clumping together, separated by race. Everyone shared tents, cooking gear, looked out for each other and I made it real clear that racial slurs were not acceptable.

It was a GREAT troop. I often think back fondly about them.
So, I have no problem with homosexuals joining Scouts. Besides, thanks to our society becoming the most litigious in the world, Boy Scouts are now under major restrictions.

Like they can't carry the sheath knives, belt axes or machetes we used to carry on campouts. Adult women now usually accompany the kids when camping, apparently to cut down on the chances of adult male guides being pervs. The Great Fireplace in a decades old camping pavilion in a Scout Camp, around which thousands of kids had a great time, was torn down due to insurance regulations over the possibility that it might be a fire hazard and no new one is allowed.

Plus, many Scouts now can't gather firewood for campfires. They use charcoal, gas stoves and things like that. The reason? It's bad for the ecology. Trees should not be cut down. Kids might get cut using axes to chop the wood. Fires might get out of control. Kids might get burnt. They might run into poison ivy in the woods, biting insects or snakes while picking up dead wood.

All of that means potential lawsuits.

So, with the current changes, which I disagree with, the kids will be watched more than ever before.

So, I'm glad the Scouts have chosen to accept Gays. Kids are kids and the Scouts is a great organization. Some of the best times of my life as a kid was in Scouts.

I was proud to be a Scoutmaster. I was proud of 'my kids', black and white.
 
2013-01-29 01:00:34 AM

Tridentata: You can be a Boy Scout in good standing and believe in one God named Yahweh, or in the 33 gods of the Hindu Vedas. Or in Thor and Woden; or in a god who set the universe in motion but hasn't touched it since. You can be "spiritual but not religious" and have vague warm feelings that there's probably some fuzzy warm creature out there who cares about you, and be a Boy Scout in good standing. You can be a Buddhist and not actually believe in a personal God and still be a Boy Scout in good standing because, well, let's just say theology is not the BSA's strong point. You can believe in a God who considers death by bear mauling to be an appropriate punishment for children who tease an old man about his baldness, and be a Boy Scout in good standing.

You cannot say "I'm honestly not sure if God exists" and be a Boy Scout in good standing.

You cannot say "I do not believe in the existence of an omnipotent supernatural being" and be a Boy Scout in good standing. Even if you avoid torturing kittens and routinely help little old ladies across the street.

Let me know when that situation changes, BSA, before you expect me to be impressed.


Ask an Indian boy following his tribe's medicine. Strong odds "god" gets replaced with "the spirits" or "the earth" or whatever personification for either that family believes in gets substituted in without so much as anyone thinking strangely of it.
 
2013-01-29 01:05:17 AM

Lord Dimwit: The BSA is a private organization


Despite the Dale ruling, there's a 1914 congressional charter still in effect stating otherwise.
 
2013-01-29 01:25:01 AM

meat0918: I live in the city now, and in one of the most secular states (Oregon). It seems to have concentrated the religiosity into a more aggressive form though.


I gotta wonder if the Census didn't get seriously gamed in Oregon. I grew up in Oregon, but I switched to Oklahoma and found this place to be way more tolerant and understanding on a bad day than Portland is on a good one. Could have something to do with this being where the US has been throwing people they didn't want away for the last 150 years, whereas it was actually illegal under the state constitution in Oregon to be anything other than white until 1927...
 
2013-01-29 01:30:39 AM

BronyMedic: The DERP on my local newspaper's facebook page about this is hilarious. There are people threatening to take their kids out of the local scout troop because they don't want them molested by gay men and teens.


static.fjcdn.com

/and by your, I mean their...
 
2013-01-29 01:35:13 AM

Terrydatroll: SpiderQueenDemon: Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.

You've never seen a fiercer pedophile-hunter than an out, proud gay man and his husband. The derp that 'gay = pederast' is like that minority's version of 'blacks will rape white women' or 'Jews use the blood of Christian babies in ceremonies.' They hate it, and to that end they are much, much tougher on pedophiles than mere straight people. And some gay people own guns and are proud 'shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out' conservatives whose response to finding kiddie porn will not so much be calling the cops to arrest the perp as the coroner to clean up the mess.

I can't see this as anything but a good idea.

While this may be true, you will have never seen a fiercer child hunter than a homosexual pedophile scout leader in the woods with a bunch of young impressionable boys.


0/10...obvious troll is obvious. But, statistically speaking, and I'm sure the records the courts opened will back me up on this, the folks you talk about typically have a wife and kids. No joke.
 
2013-01-29 01:39:26 AM

robodog: At the local level (where it really matters) most troops outside of the deep south and Utah won't have a problem with a gay scout leader so long as he's not actively pushing a gaysexual agenda.


Fixed it. Straight or gay, if you're joining for the sex, you're doing it wrong™.
 
2013-01-29 01:51:48 AM

PanicMan: Smith said a change in the policy toward atheists was not being considered, and that the BSA continued to view "Duty to God" as one of its basic principles.


I am so glad the Australian Scout Association has absolutely no connection with the one in the USoA - being gay or atheist never even enters the equation.
 
2013-01-29 01:54:19 AM

Rik01: I do figure there is potential for some problems down the way, which will be blown out of proportion by the press, kind of like if you mixed a troop of Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts.


When was the last time there was a scandal with Scouts Canada? Because that's how they roll already.
 
2013-01-29 02:04:58 AM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: Mormons, Xtian Fundies and Catholics. When it comes to societal principles, in my opinion these groups need to be marginalized. Let their members feed and clothe all the poor they want to (without enforcing belief as a qualification for aid) if it makes 'em feel better, but they really don't need to be out and about during the daylight.

We get it. You've got a book that teaches you how to be better people. We can read that book, too - and skip over the parts that would teach us to be dicks to fellow humans.


Sometimes I want to become a Christian just to show them how to actually do as Jesus taught.
 
2013-01-29 02:05:08 AM

Langdon_777: PanicMan: Smith said a change in the policy toward atheists was not being considered, and that the BSA continued to view "Duty to God" as one of its basic principles.

I am so glad the Australian Scout Association has absolutely no connection with the one in the USoA - being gay or atheist never even enters the equation.


Actually, they do. World Organisation for the Scouting Movement. It's why the ASA and BSA both have this as common insignia:

www.bsa150.com

Wouldn't surprise me if WOSM isn't at minimum the least bit frustrated with the BSA getting tangled up in these distractions on religion and orientation when there's Scouting to be done.
 
2013-01-29 02:06:36 AM

Rik01: I was in Boy Scouts as I grew up from Cubs to Explorers. Later, I became a Scout Master. I noticed several troops where the Scoutmasters let little thugs intimidate the weaker scouts, creating an unhappy troop and Scoutmasters who were really by the book.

Some were not so good, but at least they tried when no one else would.

I don't have a problem with gay kids entering Scouts. I do figure there is potential for some problems down the way, which will be blown out of proportion by the press, kind of like if you mixed a troop of Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts.

Older scouts are starting to enter puberty. On mixed camps, where Boy Scouts were at one end of a big camp ground and Girl Scouts at the other, we had the inevitable groups sneaking off at night to see what they could see about the opposite sex.

Gays are basically already in with the 'opposite sex' and no doubt they'll be attracted to some of the kids. Hopefully, Scoutmasters will enforce new rules forbidding any form of sexual contact. All it has to do is happen once and the lawsuits will explode.

I grew up through segregation. I was there during the battle for Equal Rights. I was in school when the schools started becoming desegregated. I recall the assorted names used for Black people and the hostilities.

I also started the first, and, as far as I know, only mixed race Boy Scout Troop in my town and met with no resistance from anyone. I actually found I got more help from the Black parents than the White. I did loose a handful of white kids, but not many.

I did not find the Black and White kids clumping together, separated by race. Everyone shared tents, cooking gear, looked out for each other and I made it real clear that racial slurs were not acceptable.

It was a GREAT troop. I often think back fondly about them.
So, I have no problem with homosexuals joining Scouts. Besides, thanks to our society becoming the most litigious in the world, Boy Scouts are now under major restrictions.

Like they can't car ...


Hehe yeah - when I look back on my scouting days I am surprised no one died. We were daring and the world is not a safe place, some of the things we got up too or had forced upon us because we were outback. It was a group that taught self reliance in wild situations (and yes once we got to Venturers where we had both sexes, then lots of virginities were lost.) Sadly I drove past my old Venturer hall the other day and it was closed - I guess we don't wish to challenge our kids anymore, better to be safe than sorry (LOL).

If you get to 18 years of age without having had at least one broken bone, then you really have not been challenged ever and are going to prove to be pretty mediocre in the big bad world.
 
2013-01-29 02:31:03 AM

sleeper2995: Whatever happened to the idea of "If you don't like that group let's start our own group so we can be more inclusive then the original group."?


The issue is not about having the right / ability to start a new group.

The issue is about eliminating discrimination.
 
2013-01-29 02:34:00 AM
Ironic.

/well, sort of
 
2013-01-29 02:54:45 AM

BronyMedic: The DERP on my local newspaper's facebook page about this is hilarious. There are people threatening to take their kids out of the local scout troop because they don't want them molested by gay men and teens.


A couple users on this link are caterwauling about it too. They're convinced that older gay boys are going to rape the innocent straight kids.

Regardless of the ridiculous fear of gay rape, I'm also baffled that anyone thinks gay people aren't in the Scouts already. DADT didn't keep gay people from the service and the Scouts' ban hasn't either.
 
2013-01-29 02:57:14 AM

Baloo Uriza: meat0918: I live in the city now, and in one of the most secular states (Oregon). It seems to have concentrated the religiosity into a more aggressive form though.

I gotta wonder if the Census didn't get seriously gamed in Oregon. I grew up in Oregon, but I switched to Oklahoma and found this place to be way more tolerant and understanding on a bad day than Portland is on a good one. Could have something to do with this being where the US has been throwing people they didn't want away for the last 150 years, whereas it was actually illegal under the state constitution in Oregon to be anything other than white until 1927...


It weird. There are pockets of hate and intolerance here that would make a Texan go "Chillout guys".
 
2013-01-29 03:31:16 AM

Baloo Uriza: Cythraul: This is the one you greenlight? Bah!

From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.

Other way around, really. They lost the United Way, Bank of America, and countless other six and seven figure donors to keep the LDS happy. And now we have a generation of boys and girls who don't find anything wrong with someone having two dads or two moms and can't relate the BSA's homophobia. Basically, this is where a lot of us after the Dale case get to point at National Council and say "Yeah, we all told all y'all this would happen."


Also, their membership is down 20% since 1999. And it doesn't help them that a whole bunch of adult Eagle Scouts have returned their awards in protest.

Girl Scouts allows all girls, regardless of religion or sexuality. And it allows gay and atheist adult volunteers. Of course, that's because the Mormons aren't interested in making strong girls. Being a leader is kinda the opposite of being a good, obedient little baby-maker.
 
2013-01-29 06:46:15 AM

upndn: So.... The fox is going to be in charge of the chicken coop.

What could possibly go wrong?


Maybe you should do a little research on the founder of the Boy Scouts. Maybe. Dumbass.
 
2013-01-29 06:49:54 AM

Thisbymaster: The last thing I want for sons is to have predators around them on sleep overs. They say the same thing for girl scouts.


What predators are you talking about? You mean the Boy Scouts are allowing Catholic priests on sleepovers?? Or are you one of those farktards that equates homosexuality with pedophilia??

/I've got news for you...
 
2013-01-29 08:13:27 AM

robodog: Cythraul: This is the one you greenlight? Bah!

From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.

At the local level (where it really matters) most troops outside of the deep south and Utah won't have a problem with a gay scout leader so long as he's not actively pushing a gay agenda. At the end of the day we're trying to find people to help teach our sons to be responsible, caring adults who are a bit more prepared for life than your average person, politics be damned. Hell, at the summer camp I attended in rural Pennsylvania near the WV border the service was decidedly non-christian despite the fact that the chaplin was obviously of christian faith.


How does one push a 'gay agenda?' Whenever I hear that, it's usually just bigot-code for, 'don't acknowledge anything about your sexuality while you're around us, and don't you dare try and demand equality.'
 
2013-01-29 08:58:46 AM

meat0918: Baloo Uriza: meat0918: I live in the city now, and in one of the most secular states (Oregon). It seems to have concentrated the religiosity into a more aggressive form though.

I gotta wonder if the Census didn't get seriously gamed in Oregon. I grew up in Oregon, but I switched to Oklahoma and found this place to be way more tolerant and understanding on a bad day than Portland is on a good one. Could have something to do with this being where the US has been throwing people they didn't want away for the last 150 years, whereas it was actually illegal under the state constitution in Oregon to be anything other than white until 1927...

It weird. There are pockets of hate and intolerance here that would make a Texan go "Chillout guys".


Yeah, Portland and Salem, for starters...and for ultimate irony, there's Bend, the city for yuppie white supremacists, nestled between the Warm Springs and Klamath Nations...
 
2013-01-29 09:00:36 AM

Mike Chewbacca: Of course, that's because the Mormons aren't interested in making strong girls. Being a leader is kinda the opposite of being a good, obedient little baby-maker.


Then why is there no fury like a pissed off, PMSing Mormon biatch?
 
2013-01-29 09:07:40 AM

meat0918: LaraAmber: meat0918: LaraAmber: That's nice. My son will still be doing 4-H.

I'd get my kids involved, but I remember it was pretty religious backed growing up, at least in rural Michigan.

Here was your first problem.

O...H...

Oh I know.

I live in the city now, and in one of the most secular states (Oregon). It seems to have concentrated the religiosity into a more aggressive form though.

We have a 4-H club in Eugene though.


I was in a few 4-H clubs as a child in New Jersey, and went to sleepaway 4-H Camp for several years, and there was absolutely no religious stuff involved.
 
2013-01-29 09:23:18 AM

Cythraul: robodog: Cythraul: This is the one you greenlight? Bah!

From the other thread: I wonder what kind of a social atmosphere that would create. So you're gay Scout Master John Doe, and you're trying to be a positive influence to kids in the BSA, all the while knowing the only reason they're tolerating your membership is because they want to keep their largest donors.

At the local level (where it really matters) most troops outside of the deep south and Utah won't have a problem with a gay scout leader so long as he's not actively pushing a gay agenda. At the end of the day we're trying to find people to help teach our sons to be responsible, caring adults who are a bit more prepared for life than your average person, politics be damned. Hell, at the summer camp I attended in rural Pennsylvania near the WV border the service was decidedly non-christian despite the fact that the chaplin was obviously of christian faith.

How does one push a 'gay agenda?' Whenever I hear that, it's usually just bigot-code for, 'don't acknowledge anything about your sexuality while you're around us, and don't you dare try and demand equality.'


Don't you remember the 50s and 60s, when the uppity negros were pushing their 'Black Agenda'?

It's a lot of whining about equal rights, and wanting everyone to be treated the same. I'm so Goddamned sick of every single special-interest group expecting equal treatment.

What's so great about equality, acceptance and tolerance, anyway?

\Who Would Jesus Bully and Oppress?
 
2013-01-29 09:48:25 AM
As a gay eagle scout, I'm getting a kick out of this.
 
2013-01-29 09:58:58 AM
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight good.
 
2013-01-29 10:01:11 AM

Langdon_777: Rik01: I was in Boy Scouts as I grew up from Cubs to Explorers. Later, I became a Scout Master. I noticed several troops where the Scoutmasters let little thugs intimidate the weaker scouts, creating an unhappy troop and Scoutmasters who were really by the book.

Some were not so good, but at least they tried when no one else would.

I don't have a problem with gay kids entering Scouts. I do figure there is potential for some problems down the way, which will be blown out of proportion by the press, kind of like if you mixed a troop of Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts.

Older scouts are starting to enter puberty. On mixed camps, where Boy Scouts were at one end of a big camp ground and Girl Scouts at the other, we had the inevitable groups sneaking off at night to see what they could see about the opposite sex.

Gays are basically already in with the 'opposite sex' and no doubt they'll be attracted to some of the kids. Hopefully, Scoutmasters will enforce new rules forbidding any form of sexual contact. All it has to do is happen once and the lawsuits will explode.

I grew up through segregation. I was there during the battle for Equal Rights. I was in school when the schools started becoming desegregated. I recall the assorted names used for Black people and the hostilities.

I also started the first, and, as far as I know, only mixed race Boy Scout Troop in my town and met with no resistance from anyone. I actually found I got more help from the Black parents than the White. I did loose a handful of white kids, but not many.

I did not find the Black and White kids clumping together, separated by race. Everyone shared tents, cooking gear, looked out for each other and I made it real clear that racial slurs were not acceptable.

It was a GREAT troop. I often think back fondly about them.
So, I have no problem with homosexuals joining Scouts. Besides, thanks to our society becoming the most litigious in the world, Boy Scouts are now under major restrictions.

Like they ca ...


Former Asst. Scoutmaster here, my Wife is a Unit Commisioner and Council Training chair and my son is an Eagle scout.  Concerning the use of firewood and axes and such, our troop sells firewood as a fund raising tool.  The boys are taught how to respect sharp tools and how to use them properly.  Concerning the gay issue, our troop has a don't ask don't tell type unwritten rule.  It just doesn't come up.  Sex has no place in scouts and is not discussed unless the scout is taking the Family Life merit badge.
 
2013-01-29 10:07:28 AM

Bilgewater: mentally awake, and morally straight good.


I see we don't know the difference between the words "morally" and "sexually," eh?
 
2013-01-29 10:26:48 AM

Baloo Uriza: mentally awake, and morally straight good.

I see we don't know the difference between the words "morally" and "sexually," eh?


I know. You're right. It's hard to believe how many people equate morality with sexuality. I've got the morals of an alley cat but I'm conveniently straight.
 
2013-01-29 12:47:29 PM
Fark is turning gayer than the scouts.... 'Short Shorts in a headline and not a single pic....
 
2013-01-29 01:28:20 PM
The challenge will be the litany of local lawsuits that will be forthcoming.

The activist will want to join the local troop as a leader. There are training requirements most units have before someone is let loose with the young ones, they may not want to do that and the SUE because they are not allowed to be a leader.

Most units have leaders that have some connection to the troop (parent / relative / former scout in troop) or have some connection to the chartered partner (member ). Rarely do you have random guy (gal) come in off the street and let them be a leader. No doubt some random folks will try and when not welcomed with open arms, SUE like fiends.

Only ones who win by National BSA punting on this will be the lawyers
 
2013-01-29 05:58:56 PM

Zukipilot: Fark is turning gayer than the scouts.... 'Short Shorts in a headline and not a single pic....


Don't git maaaad....

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-29 07:18:41 PM

JohnCarter: Rarely do you have random guy (gal) come in off the street and let them be a leader.


Pretty much every unit I know has one or two flat out volunteers, though the universal connection is that they were Scouts growing up and moved to another area.
 
2013-01-30 07:19:51 PM

lohphat: cynicalbastard: mark12A: Wow. Divide and conquer. Split BSA into gay/non gay factions and thus identify and bring enormous pressure onto the non-gay faction. The PC Brigade is relentless, I'll give them that.

If BSA folds, the Scouting Movement is over. Done.

Uh, just for your info, there are other countries in the world besides the U.S.

There's already Scouting for All.


And this is actually probably where the change is coming from, to be honest.

You see...a lot of the international Scouting orgs (outside of places like Saudi Arabia) not only allow LGBT troop leaders but--much like the Explorers before it split from BSA proper--are actually co-ed troops.  (Yes, BSA troops in a number of countries allow GIRLS too; what we term Girl Scouting is termed Girl Guides pretty much everywhere outside of the US.)

And, well, there HAS been some notable brouhaha in the international Scouting association regarding some of the more discriminatory practices of the BSA (not just barring LGBT people but barring atheists/agnostics/apatheists and some troops barring kids raised in neopagan religions without a formal "church" structure; the latter is pretty much the exact reason the Spiral Scouts came into being as a neopagan-friendly scouting org)...including (especially as some government groups are starting to shut out the BSA) a push to pretty much no longer have the BSA (as it is now) considered the internationally recognised scouting group in the US and switching recognition to a more inclusive scouting group.

Letting in Teh Gays wouldn't be the end of the BSA--but pretty much every other Baden-Powell-based Scouting org pretty much treating the BSA as pariahs might, especially if they start throwing support more to stuff like Scouting For All.

It also doesn't hurt that the BSA pretty much lost the Explorers over the brouhaha (the latter are now their own separate and decidedly more inclusive org--the BSA's exclusionary policies of late in conjunction with recent court rulings pretty much would have directly threatened the Explorers' cadet programs among emergency management and public safety groups) and it also doesn't help the BSA that a lot of groups that have in past been lesser-known have been embraced as being decidedly more inclusive (4-H in particular has REALLY gained by this, even getting 4-H posts in urban areas which was UNHEARD of thirty years ago; FFA has also had some growth, as has Campfire).

(And to directly compare it to the OTHER major Baden-Powell-based Scouting org in the US--the Girl Scouts of America do NOT have this issue and are a welcomed member of the WAGGGS (basically the worldwide association of national Girl Scout and Girl Guide groups).  There is NOT the murmuring of kicking GSA out of WAGGGS like there is the murmuring (and active petitioning) to get the BSA kicked out of the World Scout Bureau.  Then again, GSA is also an explicitly inclusive scouting group that allows LGBT leaders and members (even transgirls and transwomen), does not prohibit atheists/agnostics/apatheists/neopagan members, and pretty much the only people saying Bad Things about GSA tend to be dominionists (who have set up their own dominionist alternatives to traditional Scouting in general and to the GSA in particular and who don't like the empowering messages in the GSA...but hell, they also don't like the empowering messages for girls in "My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic") and folks who worry about the health effects of eating two pounds of Girl Scout Cookies at a setting. :D  IMNSHO, the BSA could stand to learn from their "sisters" in the Scouting movement.)
 
2013-01-30 07:32:15 PM

Baloo Uriza: Rik01: I do figure there is potential for some problems down the way, which will be blown out of proportion by the press, kind of like if you mixed a troop of Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts.

When was the last time there was a scandal with Scouts Canada? Because that's how they roll already.


More properly, the Canadian member of the World Scouting Bureau (the international "Baden-Powell-based" scouting umbrella group that the BSA is under) is co-ed, just like almost every "Boy Scouting" group in the developed nations of the world is co-ed.  (If anything, the BSA is one of the few glaring exemptions of a "Baden-Powell" WSB member Scouting org that is still boys-only; the other exemptions tend to be in countries where there is still extremely strong sexual segregation (like Saudi Arabia) and in countries still very new to the Scouting movement that did not have a predecessor "Scouting-equivalent" movement.  Even in some of the newer countries to Scouting that formerly had "Scouting-equivalents" like the Young Pioneers, some co-ed troops exist.)

The Girl Scouts in Canada are known as Girl Guides (again, the US is actually the weird one out in calling its WAGGGS org "Girl Scouts" due to its heritage of being basically a "women's auxillary" of the original Baden-Powell scouting movement that was founded by Juliette Low--everyone else pretty much refers to them as "Girl Guides"); they have a separate international Scouting organisation and still maintain a separate identity.

What goes on with the local "BSA equivalents" in most Western countries is akin to what happened to one of the competitors to Scouting (both the BSA and GSA)--Campfire, which formerly was the Campfire Girls until they went co-ed in the 80s.
 
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