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(Peoria Journal Star)   Workers vs. smart machines: THEY TOOK ER JERBS   (pjstar.com) divider line 305
    More: Sad, AWs, information need, big data, machines, technological change, MIT  
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10228 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jan 2013 at 4:01 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-28 06:22:24 PM  
I own a 40-acre farm.

Ha! Ha! Estoy usando el Internet!
 
2013-01-28 06:30:28 PM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu:
Didn't someone say, a long long time ago, that only a rich society could support a large 'art' class?

Anyway, the way to get those back into schools is to make them profitable for schools. How can schools make money with art and music classes?


How do they make money on sports? Schools can make money on concerts, plays, art shows, and so forth. As for society, art has more uses than paintings on walls and sculptures in halls. Just about everything we use was designed by somebody, aesthetically as well as mechanically. And I can't imagine people giving up listening to music. It seems like our whole smart phone industry sprang up around the fact that people were obsessed with bringing their music with them. I might be able to see people giving up reading, maybe. But somebody still needs to come up with the plots to tv shows, movies, games, etc., even if all the actors and scenery are replaced by CGI. People are still, presumably, going to want new styles of clothing, different looking cars, aesthetically pleasing and interesting houses, and so forth. The machines will be able to do all the menial labor of it, and people will do the part that gives it the human touch that I'm not sure machines will really be able to replace. I'm not sure if I'm expressing my thoughts well enough.
 
2013-01-28 06:30:31 PM  
My job is firing all the people our company has replaced with robots. Good thing there's no robot that can do my job. Hang on, something's coming over the fax...

www.yourprops.com
 
2013-01-28 06:32:13 PM  
If your job involves looking at numbers and writing them down, and if you get paid $67,000 a year to do so, don't be surprised when your job goes away

/Duh
 
2013-01-28 06:33:22 PM  

Evil Twin Skippy: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: What's really going to be fun is when the "safe" jobs start to be lost to automation: engineers, IT admins, programmers, etc...

That's when the real butthurt will begin.

I use scripting to do the work of several programmers in my job. Seriously, I write programs that write programs. When you are dealing with simulations, there are so many interconnections that need to be spot on, you can't trust it to even the guy who wrote it to keep the t's dotted and i's crossed.

In a bigger company, we would have a cast of thousands working from a spec, constantly throwing changes over the wall and praying they work in production.

I just update my spec, and the scripts put together all of the C and Tcl code that would be needed to implement the simulation, the user interface to the simulation, and the validation tools to import and export data to other models. For bonus points, I can even automate the process of generating regression tests.


I specialise in cleaning up the toxic piles of waste that are the results of well-meaning amateurs in the software industry. My day job is almost always about automating myself out of work, much in the way you use. Sadly, even if we tripled the number of shops using fully automated build and deploy, test driven, etc, I would still be facing an eternity of work.

Cheers.
 
2013-01-28 06:33:33 PM  

oh_please: amquelbettamin: If there's 15% unemployment everyone should only work 4 out of the 5 days they otherwise would. Then there would be room for 20% more work. The demand vs supply gap of 5% of workers should drive up salaries as well.

wat? Think that through again.


Hmmm..

Maybe 5% of people need to work 20% harder......errr. My dog ate my calculator.
 
2013-01-28 06:35:40 PM  

StrandedInAZ: doczoidberg: Thinking about the jobless future makes me feel a little less regret for never having kids.

Yessir, things don't look good for our species.

For me, it's seeing how entitled today's kids are. I don't imagine I'd be able to raise a kid the way my parents raised me. I got hit when I acted up and deserved it. If I'd been born 20 years later, CPS would have probably taken me away from them, even though I never thought I was abused. My parents couldn't afford brand name clothing or sneakers, but we didn't care because nobody else in our neighborhood had that stuff, either. We as kids understood mom and dad were doing the best they could and wouldn't think of asking our parents for something we knew they couldn't afford. My parents didn't believe in buying things on credit (except for the house, which had a mortgage). If you couldn't afford to buy it with cash, you didn't need it. I've worked since I was 11, starting with a paper route. If I wanted designer sneakers, I could buy them with my own money.

As for the future of the species, I'm more optimistic than you. However, I think the ones who will survive are the ones who learn to adapt. You can't just bury your head in the sand and pretend progress isn't happening. If people who had jobs such as a travel agent didn't see the obsolescence of their jobs coming, they weren't paying attention. If you do a job that a machine can do or that the internet now allows your clients to do themselves, then you should be training and preparing to do something else. Even the pron industry has been affected by the internet boom. If pron isn't safe, nothing is.

/I see what I did there


And 100 years ago you would have been working in a factory when you were 8. And 100 years before that, your life expectancy was something like 40. And 100 years before that you would have been an indentured servant on some rich guy's farm.

What I'm saying is we're progressing, so be happy that you don't have to beat your kids
 
2013-01-28 06:36:32 PM  

Kaiku: Is it so hard to envision a future where working for a living is no longer the norm and everyone is afforded a basic standard of living via a guaranteed minimum income?


And who are these noble people who will pay bums to lay around?
 
2013-01-28 06:37:53 PM  

o5iiawah: Cyno01: Give it a few years for the RFID tag to replace the UPC and stores wont even HAVE checkouts anymore, youll just bag up your shiat at the front of the store and walk out, everything in your cart automatically being totaled up and charged to your card. Sure you still need stockboys and a few people on the floor, but thats hundreds of thousands of entry level no skill cashiering jobs that will just be GONE.

Because its not like that wont open the market for tens of thousands of people to install, maintain, sell, repair, and distribute the RFID equipment - many of them high paying and a store that installs the system might then find itself in a position to lower its prices as compared to competitors. AS they are now spending less money on groceries, they have more money to spend in other areas of the economy which will in the aggregate create jobs.

The same arguments were made in nu-industrial england when the made-nails-and-screws-by-hand lobby was outraged that machines were going to take their jerbs away.


newton: I have met a lot of people at bars who work in automation. programming, etc.
Their argument is that they are helping the day come where no one has to work, so they are helping.
They argue that for every assembly job they robotize, there is no loss in jobs because programmers need to be hired.
They don't seem to notice that one programmer can take out thousands of jobs.

The argument that they are saving the world by making robots do everything-
I tell them I like the idea, but it does not seem to be something that we can achieve at this time in our society.

Who is feeding the factory workers you just laid off with your robots? Do they now get free food and shelter? Oh, no they do not.
So how does this robots save the humans from working thing actually work?

They always run out of good answers really fast.

such a shame that we dont carry shiat around on horseback now that we have cars, trucks and trains
Such a shame that we have modern machines that make parts that go into everyday items that make our lives better
Such a shame that we dont have to spend all day in a field with rudimentary hand tools now that we have tractors and plows

But I am sure you fabricated your computer by hand, with rare earth minerals dug up by your own hand-made tools, with power generated from a wheel in a nearby stream which delivers current via electricity produced from forging tons of copper ore into wire.


Way to be black and white. Either everything technology has ever done or is about to do is perfect or we need to haul things by horse? Seems legit.
 
2013-01-28 06:40:25 PM  

maegen: ExperianScaresCthulhu:
Didn't someone say, a long long time ago, that only a rich society could support a large 'art' class?

Anyway, the way to get those back into schools is to make them profitable for schools. How can schools make money with art and music classes?

How do they make money on sports? Schools can make money on concerts, plays, art shows, and so forth. As for society, art has more uses than paintings on walls and sculptures in halls. Just about everything we use was designed by somebody, aesthetically as well as mechanically. And I can't imagine people giving up listening to music. It seems like our whole smart phone industry sprang up around the fact that people were obsessed with bringing their music with them. I might be able to see people giving up reading, maybe. But somebody still needs to come up with the plots to tv shows, movies, games, etc., even if all the actors and scenery are replaced by CGI. People are still, presumably, going to want new styles of clothing, different looking cars, aesthetically pleasing and interesting houses, and so forth. The machines will be able to do all the menial labor of it, and people will do the part that gives it the human touch that I'm not sure machines will really be able to replace. I'm not sure if I'm expressing my thoughts well enough.



I agree. It's funny how today what a low value some people put on creative arts, but eventually much engineering and science will be automated away - in fact, it already is, if you've spent any time in a lab recently. There are not enough jobs for all the science majors graduating because of this. What few jobs that remain go to the creative ones with novel ways of solving problems.

Eventually all that will be left for man to do is have ideas to express and implement and finally, space exploration. The means of production will be no longer be much of an obstacle. Worried about using up natural resources? Asteroids, our neighborhood gas giants and the sun have plenty to last a looong time.
 
2013-01-28 06:44:50 PM  
All your jobs r belong to us.
 
2013-01-28 06:47:39 PM  

Fano: And who are these noble people who will pay bums to lay around?


Currently, it's the noble taxpayer that pays the bums in Congress to sit around not getting shiat accomplished...

HaywoodJablonski: be happy that you don't have to beat your kids.


Just so we're clear...I don't HAVE to beat 'em, but I can if I want to, right?
 
2013-01-28 06:51:16 PM  

super_grass: Technological advancement is a means to improve the lives of humans. If it no longer serves that purpose, it should be culled.


You owe me a keyboard
 
2013-01-28 06:52:53 PM  
I automated my day job but I'm not telling my boss. Pretty good money in running macros.
 
2013-01-28 06:53:27 PM  

o5iiawah: Cyno01: Give it a few years for the RFID tag to replace the UPC and stores wont even HAVE checkouts anymore, youll just bag up your shiat at the front of the store and walk out, everything in your cart automatically being totaled up and charged to your card. Sure you still need stockboys and a few people on the floor, but thats hundreds of thousands of entry level no skill cashiering jobs that will just be GONE.

Because its not like that wont open the market for tens of thousands of people to install, maintain, sell, repair, and distribute the RFID equipment - many of them high paying and a store that installs the system might then find itself in a position to lower its prices as compared to competitors. AS they are now spending less money on groceries, they have more money to spend in other areas of the economy which will in the aggregate create jobs.


You dont think those sort of jobs already exist with standard checkouts now? Discounting the whole RFID thing... a store goes from needing 8 checkers to 1 clerk manning 8 self checkout lanes. Keying in coupons, overriding errors, changing receipt tape, etc. Did those other 7 jobs shift to installing and repairing those self checkouts?

You replace 1000 walmart checkers in a city with RFID systems, the company making the RFID systems is the one that already sold them their old checkouts, NEC or somebody, no new jobs there. Corporate has a dozen teams traveling the country installing the things, probably the same guys who used to install standard checkouts at new stores and upgrade old ones. And maintenance? Are they going to break down more than the old ones? If they did, why install them, its not like every store has a checkout repair guy on staff now, its going to be one guy for the whole city who travels from store to store as needed, exactly like it is now.

If automation created more jobs, it wouldnt be cost effective. You said yourself, hundreds of thousands of unskilled jobs turning into tens of thousands of semi to skilled jobs. And how are people supposed to pay for school to learn those skilled jobs if there arent unskilled entry level jobs? If you replace americas half a million burger flippers with robots, it doesnt take half a million burger flipping skill level positions to design, build, install and maintain those burger flipping robots. If it took 500k people to do that, why pay for 500k robots ontop of their pay?
 
2013-01-28 06:59:18 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Eddie Adams from Torrance: ajgeek: Does anyone smarter than me have a potential solution to this problem? Obviously we can't generate work for work's sake and not everyone can fix the machines that do work for us, but we're getting to a point where we are going to have an excess of human labor. This is both real and very serious. Idle hands and all that.

/and no, sending everyone to China won't help either.

Well, we could educate our citizens better so they could compete for jobs in the new information based economy, but that's socialism.... so, no.

People are not machines that can be programmed for any task.


No. People are machines that can be programmed for any task equal to or less than their ability. The solution is to keep your ability above that of a machine. The goal of any person should be to keep their ability at such a point that it's not replaceable by a machine at that time.

To be utilitarian about it, if the only point of you having a job is to provide you with an income; I'd just as soon give you the money for free and have a more capable machine do your job. Accomplishing things slower just to pretend that it's capitalism instead of socialism is idiotic.

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Knowledge of what? what is there to learn? And what would you do with that knowledge once you got it? That's not human nature. The pursuit is not of knowledge, but of pleasure. What do the idle rich do all day, compete for noble prizes? nah, man. They compete for pleasures. To be idle and rich is not to be Tony Stark, it's to be an Eldar. or a Kuwaiti.


sandeshkumard.files.wordpress.com
Sir Richard Branson laughs in your general direction. Personally, I were filthy rich, I'd spend my time bankrolling awesome crap for the sake of being awesome. But maybe that's because I derive pleasure from knowledge and innovation.

/hot
 
2013-01-28 07:03:03 PM  

jst3p: xynix: I spanked my son until it hurt my hand more than his ass which was at about age 9 1/2. Now I just threaten to take away his iPhone (which he earned by the way) and he does what I ask. He has a 4.0 GPA and if that slips at all he loses the phone. It's really not that hard to discipline a child these days it's just a different technique. Grounding a kid has become mobile or electronics based.

My kids fear having their memory card deleted far more than any spanking.


Jesus that's cruel. I mean, spanking is one thing, but reformatting your children?!
 
2013-01-28 07:03:53 PM  

Cyno01: If automation created more jobs, it wouldnt be cost effective. You said yourself, hundreds of thousands of unskilled jobs turning into tens of thousands of semi to skilled jobs. And how are people supposed to pay for school to learn those skilled jobs if there arent unskilled entry level jobs? If you replace americas half a million burger flippers with robots, it doesnt take half a million burger flipping skill level positions to design, build, install and maintain those burger flipping robots. If it took 500k people to do that, why pay for 500k robots ontop of their pay?


Automate the schools. QED.
 
2013-01-28 07:09:57 PM  
"Today we fight the machine 'culture' as it creeps toward us from the hives of artificially nursed industry and stunted taste. That we are probably foredoomed to defeat, does not alter the essential aspect of the case. The impending victory of the intruding order does not alter its intrinsic status. What is to be, is to be, but we are not obligated to grin and pretend we like it. Personally, we can do all in our power to stave off the calamity, and then step aside with the resignation of a dying man, or of a 6th century Roman confronted by the Dark Ages."

H. P. Lovecraft, 1929

/ He was pretty sure the rise of machines would destroy civilization.
// It hasn't so far, and probably won't.
/// Also, Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
 
2013-01-28 07:14:02 PM  

inclemency: Reverend Monkeypants: Ya know what?
fark this guy.
Making 67 grand a year for reading farking numbers?
I don't care how farking long you've been doing it.
It's as bad as the $40 an hour assholes who attach bumpers to cars in Detroit...
The $50 an hour construction site flag wavers.
fark all y'all.

Yes. Let your masters teach you to rage about overpaid number readers. THEY'RE the ones keeping you down, you temporarily embarrassed millionaire.


I'm sorry. Is this man a specialist that deserves more than a McDonalds employee?

Yes, I'm serious. I know it's your "American Dream" to do as little as farking possible and get paid as much as possible to do so but this is REALLY part of crap that unbalances an economy. Overvaluation of services is good? Really? I know you scream and yell at it but don't you think we should level the playing field a little? Why should a tool who reads meters all day for 24 years make more than a farmer that busts his ass his entire life so he can eat?
 
2013-01-28 07:15:38 PM  
I forsee one of two scenarios:

1) Robots put everyone out of a job, rich people who own all the robots own and control everything, we fall back into fuedalism.

2) Everyone ends up working in entertainment while the robots do the labor
 
2013-01-28 07:18:43 PM  

ban_sidhe: "Today we fight the machine 'culture' as it creeps toward us from the hives of artificially nursed industry and stunted taste. That we are probably foredoomed to defeat, does not alter the essential aspect of the case. The impending victory of the intruding order does not alter its intrinsic status. What is to be, is to be, but we are not obligated to grin and pretend we like it. Personally, we can do all in our power to stave off the calamity, and then step aside with the resignation of a dying man, or of a 6th century Roman confronted by the Dark Ages."

H. P. Lovecraft, 1929

/ He was pretty sure the rise of machines would destroy civilization.
// It hasn't so far, and probably won't.
/// Also, Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.


He wrote, before sending his manuscript off to the presses rather than employing a team of scribes...
 
2013-01-28 07:19:36 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: there4igraham: If your job involves sitting or standing in one place doing the same thing over and over again you're going to be replaced by a machine.

That might not happen as soon as you might be thinking. There's a lot of repetitive tasks in manufacturing that are still fiddly enough to keep machines from doing the job at the moment, and from what I've seen (I'll admit I don't follow it as close anymore) they aren't really very close to solving the problem. Picking up a small part from a pile of other small parts, orienting it correctly and placing it in a jig, then removing it and putting it back in a pile isn't as easy for robots as it is for humans. Yet.


I will say, "how it's made" surprises me at the sort of tasks that are done by hand still.
 
2013-01-28 07:22:48 PM  
WORLD OF LUDDITES


/new MMORPG!
 
2013-01-28 07:23:32 PM  
I make under 40k trying to cure cancer :/
 
2013-01-28 07:24:20 PM  

ProfessorOhki: ban_sidhe: "Today we fight the machine 'culture' as it creeps toward us from the hives of artificially nursed industry and stunted taste. That we are probably foredoomed to defeat, does not alter the essential aspect of the case. The impending victory of the intruding order does not alter its intrinsic status. What is to be, is to be, but we are not obligated to grin and pretend we like it. Personally, we can do all in our power to stave off the calamity, and then step aside with the resignation of a dying man, or of a 6th century Roman confronted by the Dark Ages."

H. P. Lovecraft, 1929

/ He was pretty sure the rise of machines would destroy civilization.
// It hasn't so far, and probably won't.
/// Also, Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

He wrote, before sending his manuscript off to the presses rather than employing a team of scribes...


He wrote all his stuff longhand, then typed the stuff submitted for publication. He also ate cold beans out of a can because he was too broke to afford anything else. So...no team of scribes.
 
2013-01-28 07:34:15 PM  

Jument: cman: Is losing a job to a machine really such a bad thing?

I really dont understand why people are pissed off of technological progress.

It's only a bad thing if you're the one who ends up homeless as a result.


This! It's not that we are afraid of progress, it's the way we're afraid of progress being used.

Technological progress is not being pushed by a Roddenberrysque mindset, that eventually people will be living comfortably and poverty will be eliminated, thanks to advancement. Instead it is being pushed as a free market solution to eliminate workers and increase profits, with the mindset that those people who lost their jobs are useless now upon society and give us either one of three recommendations: "re-educate themselves into a new employment" (while cost of education is increasing, and long term debt will likely follow the person around, with no guarantee that the degree will net them a job), "work in a service industry" (which will eventually be replaced by automation, and the new job will not cover living expenses as the prior one successfully did; which will require two or three jobs to do that, taking those potential jobs away from others in the same situation), or "die in a ditch somewhere"! (which seems to be the attitude that quite a few "haves" intertwine with the idea of poverty, even if it isn't the individual's own fault that caused it).
 
2013-01-28 07:38:08 PM  
They said the same thing about the cotton gin, the tractor, and all other modern farming equipment, without which we'd all still be spending 75% of our paychecks on food.
 
2013-01-28 07:44:26 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: Jument: cman: Is losing a job to a machine really such a bad thing?

I really dont understand why people are pissed off of technological progress.

It's only a bad thing if you're the one who ends up homeless as a result.

This! It's not that we are afraid of progress, it's the way we're afraid of progress being used.

Technological progress is not being pushed by a Roddenberrysque mindset, that eventually people will be living comfortably and poverty will be eliminated, thanks to advancement. Instead it is being pushed as a free market solution to eliminate workers and increase profits, with the mindset that those people who lost their jobs are useless now upon society and give us either one of three recommendations: "re-educate themselves into a new employment" (while cost of education is increasing, and long term debt will likely follow the person around, with no guarantee that the degree will net them a job), "work in a service industry" (which will eventually be replaced by automation, and the new job will not cover living expenses as the prior one successfully did; which will require two or three jobs to do that, taking those potential jobs away from others in the same situation), or "die in a ditch somewhere"! (which seems to be the attitude that quite a few "haves" intertwine with the idea of poverty, even if it isn't the individual's own fault that caused it).


That comment is smart and very apropos with your username. It is amazing how the rich have convinced even many poor that the poor are scum. I read something the other day about how the richest few hundred people make as much as the poorest several billion or something like that.
 
2013-01-28 07:57:02 PM  

mama2tnt: azmoviez: cman: Is losing a job to a machine really such a bad thing? I really dont understand why people are pissed off of technological progress.

If you had made a career out of being a travel agent, I could imagine you'd be pissed that your livelihood is gone in a matter of just a few years. There's really not much of a grace period when technology just overwhelms the industry that you work.  Ask Borders.

I see the change happening with major grocery and retail workers right now in a big hurry.

I used to be a typesetter.


The late 90s/early 00s were depressing as hell for prepress. Mind you, there was also a webpage design entrepreneur across the hall from us at the time who could no longer afford to pay his 6 employees.
 
2013-01-28 07:57:21 PM  

Skraeling: I make under 40k trying to cure cancer :/


Yeah and that's the point I was trying to make above but some assheads think I'm a communist or something for suggesting that payscales are skewed to hell.
 
2013-01-28 08:08:52 PM  

Kaiku: The sound of one hand clapping:It would create a very obvious class divide because the jobless probably would have little to no disposable income so they'd be limited to hobbies and pursuits that cost no money.

I think some disposable income would be a necessary and desirable part of a basic standard of living. People need entertainment, especially people who no longer have work to expend their energy. Otherwise they will become bored and destructive.


But if everyone is able to afford it, you might as well just make it free and accessible to everyone, right?
 
2013-01-28 08:11:39 PM  

Fano: Kaiku: Is it so hard to envision a future where working for a living is no longer the norm and everyone is afforded a basic standard of living via a guaranteed minimum income?

And who are these noble people who will pay bums to lay around?


The minority who don't want the majority (of bums) to rise up against them. Even Caesar provided coliseums.
 
2013-01-28 08:12:59 PM  
DarkSoulNoHope: Nice summation there o bleak one.
 
2013-01-28 08:19:39 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: My job is firing all the people our company has replaced with robots. Good thing there's no robot that can do my job. Hang on, something's coming over the fax...

[www.yourprops.com image 600x337]


Know what? I recently found out that Cusco is a real company.
They make industrial vacuum trucks.

There's a "sucker" joke in there somewhere...
 
2013-01-28 08:20:37 PM  

ashinmytomatoes: DarkSoulNoHope: Jument: cman: Is losing a job to a machine really such a bad thing?

I really dont understand why people are pissed off of technological progress.

It's only a bad thing if you're the one who ends up homeless as a result.

This! It's not that we are afraid of progress, it's the way we're afraid of progress being used.

Technological progress is not being pushed by a Roddenberrysque mindset, that eventually people will be living comfortably and poverty will be eliminated, thanks to advancement. Instead it is being pushed as a free market solution to eliminate workers and increase profits, with the mindset that those people who lost their jobs are useless now upon society and give us either one of three recommendations: "re-educate themselves into a new employment" (while cost of education is increasing, and long term debt will likely follow the person around, with no guarantee that the degree will net them a job), "work in a service industry" (which will eventually be replaced by automation, and the new job will not cover living expenses as the prior one successfully did; which will require two or three jobs to do that, taking those potential jobs away from others in the same situation), or "die in a ditch somewhere"! (which seems to be the attitude that quite a few "haves" intertwine with the idea of poverty, even if it isn't the individual's own fault that caused it).

That comment is smart and very apropos with your username. It is amazing how the rich have convinced even many poor that the poor are scum. I read something the other day about how the richest few hundred people make as much as the poorest several billion or something like that.


Here's how the rich have convinced the poor to vote against their own economic interests and hate other poor people...

rlv.zcache.com

Because you see, they aren't "poor", they're either "temporarily inconvenienced millionaires" or "future millionaires"!

/trying not to burst out laughing when I first heard it
//then I try to prevent myself from crying when I realize the ploy actually works on those people whom actually believe it
 
2013-01-28 08:23:32 PM  
There is always a job for a qualified engineer.
 
2013-01-28 08:24:49 PM  

JWideman: maegen: Can't believe nobody's brought up creative markets. Art, music, literature, even the actual aesthetic design of things such as websites, boxes, marketing literature, etc. In theory, machines might be able to do some of it someday, but it won't mean anything. These are forms of human expression. A large part of what makes them great is the connection with another person. Of course, these are exactly the things everybody is, mindbogglingly, trying to remove all funding for in schools.

Indeed. The very thing that most makes us human - our creativity - is what society values least. The robot apocalypse isn't coming, it is here. WE are the robots.


I wouldn't say society values them the least. I mean, best-selling authors make bank and more-so than most top-of-their-field engineers. Same goes towards actors, artists, etc.

At most companies, UI designers and graphic artists are viewed as just as valuable as programmers.

The reason it's viewed as less important in the context of school is that it's not really viewed as something that's as teachable in a curriculum, lecture style environment compared to say, math and science. Creativity isn't exactly devalued, it's just viewed as something parents and peers have to foster because an authoritarian school system really can't.
 
2013-01-28 08:24:52 PM  

berylman: DarkSoulNoHope: Nice summation there o bleak one.


Sometimes the truth has to come out through grim facts.
 
2013-01-28 08:27:39 PM  

ajgeek: Does anyone smarter than me have a potential solution to this problem?


What problem? Efficiency is always good for an economy. Jobs lost in one field are replaced by jobs in other fields, and lower production costs result in a higher standard of living for everybody. It's a win-win situation.
 
2013-01-28 08:29:37 PM  

imgod2u: Fano: Kaiku: Is it so hard to envision a future where working for a living is no longer the norm and everyone is afforded a basic standard of living via a guaranteed minimum income?

And who are these noble people who will pay bums to lay around?

The minority who don't want the majority (of bums) to rise up against them. Even Caesar provided coliseums.


In the end, panum et circusae isn't a solid strategy.It's demeaning and dehumanizing. People need a purpose. Think of what trust fund kids do with their time and realize that an infinite amount of money wouldn't be enough.
 
2013-01-28 08:33:00 PM  

super_grass: Contrary to our negative view of luddites: efficiency and automation do cost jobs.


200 years ago, 90% of Americans worked in food production. Today it's only 5%. We don't have an 85% unemployment rate. Think about it. The Luddites deserve their reputation.
 
2013-01-28 08:39:38 PM  

Fano: imgod2u: Fano: Kaiku: Is it so hard to envision a future where working for a living is no longer the norm and everyone is afforded a basic standard of living via a guaranteed minimum income?

And who are these noble people who will pay bums to lay around?

The minority who don't want the majority (of bums) to rise up against them. Even Caesar provided coliseums.

In the end, panum et circusae isn't a solid strategy.It's demeaning and dehumanizing. People need a purpose. Think of what trust fund kids do with their time and realize that an infinite amount of money wouldn't be enough.


A better example would be modern day UK. So the worst we'll have to worry about is high levels of binge drinking and lack of attractive women.
 
2013-01-28 08:44:10 PM  
Just because no one has posted it yet. DURRRK A DURRR!!

America has always been a nation of innovation. Our technological improvements are one of the reason we're sitting at #1 in the world's economy. However, as has been stated in this article, that's because these advancements have been to enhance our work and not necessarily to replace human workers. One bulldozer can do the work of 100 guys, but you still need a guy driving the bulldozer. Nowadays, it seems there are so many jobs that can be done automatically that we're advancing ourselves to the unemployment line.
 
2013-01-28 08:54:25 PM  
Heck, ever since I bought my Fleshlight, I have automated the women in my life
 
2013-01-28 09:03:47 PM  
We're fast approaching the "one paragraph of content" web page.
 
2013-01-28 09:04:42 PM  

imgod2u:

The reason it's viewed as less important in the context of school is that it's not really viewed as something that's as teachable in a curriculum, lecture style environment compared to say, math and science. Creativity isn't exactly devalued, it's just viewed as something parents and peers have to foster because an authoritarian school system really can't.


The real problem of this is that many children, especially at the lower end of the income spectrum who are most likely to be adversely affected by the changing economy, are unlikely to have a space/time to explore and discover their creative talents/potential unless space is made for that in the schools. Even for someone natively creative and engaged,it's very easy to learn to suppress that (creativity/imagination) is the system in which you spend the majority of your structured time tells you it's of no value. Schools that try to produce drones rather than engaged, thinking citizens are counterproductive at best.
 
2013-01-28 09:05:14 PM  
Ever seen Wall-E? We're maybe two generations away.
 
2013-01-28 09:08:35 PM  

FatherChaos: Just because no one has posted it yet. DURRRK A DURRR!!

America has always been a nation of innovation. Our technological improvements are one of the reason we're sitting at #1 in the world's economy. However, as has been stated in this article, that's because these advancements have been to enhance our work and not necessarily to replace human workers. One bulldozer can do the work of 100 guys, but you still need a guy driving the bulldozer. Nowadays, it seems there are so many jobs that can be done automatically that we're advancing ourselves to the unemployment line.


No you don't. I work with these guys. The entire mining industry in Australia is going automated. If you can fly a plane and bomb terrorists from a hemisphere away, you can dig rocks too.

autonomoussolutions.com
Link
 
2013-01-28 09:18:37 PM  

inclemency: Internet Meme Rogers: kindms: The only thing holding back automation in tons of industries is that its still cheaper to pay someone $8 an hour to do it.

I work for a company that sells automation, and at the bottom of each sales proposal we have a line that says "This machine works for $X an hour." It's nearly always less than you'd have to pay a person to do the same job, and not as well as the machine will do it.

Getting a kick out of TFA and this thread, since my job is taking away other people's jobs.

Good luck in hell.


Yes, I'm going to hell for selling CNC routers. LOL

/don't believe in hell
//believe in slashies
 
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