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(Expert Reviews (UK))   If you've ever wanted to buy a tablet with either 30% or 60% less storage space than you paid for...then Feb 9th will be your lucky day   (expertreviews.co.uk) divider line 138
    More: Fail, Microsoft, cloud storage, reverse transcriptases, SkyDrive, Android devices, SSD, dry cask storage, ARM architecture  
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9684 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Jan 2013 at 11:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-28 03:39:12 PM
Does any other company get shiat for advertising their devices' storage capacity before the OS is taken into account? Why is MS getting dumped on for a practice that everybody else engages in?

I'm actually looking forward to getting one of these. I can visit clients, take notes, and if needed, spin up a development copy of their project in visual studio, then whip out the pen and fire up OneNote to do some whiteboarding and spitballing. And if the mood strikes me I can use Sketchbook to doodle during downtime. The only thing I wish it had is cellular connectivity.
 
2013-01-28 03:55:06 PM

The Larch: I feel bad for anyone who buys a Microsoft tablet by accident.

But other than people who get bamboozled by a salesman, anyone who buys one of these things knows what he's getting. I'm not going to worry about it too much.

Microsoft's dismal record with mobile products for the last few years is no secret to anyone who pays any attention to the market. The only question anyone has about the Surface is whether it will be around as long as the Kin, Windows Phone 7, or the Zune. And, apart from the same morbid curiosity that makes all of us stare at car accidents, nobody really cares that much about the answer.


The Kin sucked.

Other than that... the products you listed were pretty good, even if they weren't commercially successful.
 
2013-01-28 04:10:59 PM

The Larch: somedude210: to be fair, it is one of the first to have a usb connection. let alone USB 3.0

That's true... I don't have a USB connection on my goldfish. I don't have a USB connection on my kitchen table. I don't have a USB connection on my toaster. A Surface would be one of the first things in my house to have a USB connection.

To be fair, it wouldn't be on of the first TABLETS to have a USB connection. But it would still be one of the first "things".


Where did I say "things"? I was referring to tablets, as we were all well aware that this was the discussion at hand. As such, I'm fairly certain there are few, if any, tablets out there that have USB ports, or an SD port along with it. That was the point. I'm sorry I pissed in your Wheaties.

dentalhilljack: My year old Iconia has both USB and microSD available. It ain't the prettiest or fastest tablet out there, but moving files on and off is a breeze and my movie library for trips is a card swap away.

/Mrs. Hilljack likes having a separate thumbdrive for her sensitive work files.


Iconia? Acer makes tablets? Are they any good?

That said, I thought originally the Surface was going to be the first tablet to offer native USB support. I was mistaken and for that I apologize.

/usb 3.0 support then?
//I swear they were the first tablet to do something
//I personally like win8 on a tablet. It's a nice match
 
2013-01-28 04:13:46 PM
lfixtstore.com
 
2013-01-28 04:26:48 PM

xalres: Does any other company get shiat for advertising their devices' storage capacity before the OS is taken into account? Why is MS getting dumped on for a practice that everybody else engages in?


Actually, people do get upset that the 16 GB iPad only has about 14 GB of usable storage.
 
2013-01-28 05:20:23 PM

ZAZ: There is no difference between 80 GB and 100 GB..


I've never been great at math but I'm almost certain there's a difference between 80 and 100 of something.
 
2013-01-28 05:38:22 PM

fatalvenom: doglover: What I don't get is who upgrades so damn often. I have a Xoom. Had it for over a year. It's still workin' fine. I'm not gonna pay a bunch extra for a freakin' new tablet when mine's still up and runnin'.

Exactly. My GF got me my Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 for Christmas. My friend saw me using it and asked what it was so I told him, he then proceeds to tell me I should get rid of it and get the new Note tablet.

I told him to kindly STFU.


Ha! I laugh at that. I'm one of the 30 people who bought the Lenovo Thinkpad tablet from last year and I'm never giving that up, even though Lenovo apparently has.

/Great piece of gear
//Little to no support, though
 
2013-01-28 05:39:33 PM

somedude210: The Larch: somedude210: to be fair, it is one of the first to have a usb connection. let alone USB 3.0

That's true... I don't have a USB connection on my goldfish. I don't have a USB connection on my kitchen table. I don't have a USB connection on my toaster. A Surface would be one of the first things in my house to have a USB connection.

To be fair, it wouldn't be on of the first TABLETS to have a USB connection. But it would still be one of the first "things".

Where did I say "things"? I was referring to tablets, as we were all well aware that this was the discussion at hand. As such, I'm fairly certain there are few, if any, tablets out there that have USB ports, or an SD port along with it. That was the point. I'm sorry I pissed in your Wheaties.


What few, if any, tablets might look like
 
2013-01-28 05:40:53 PM

Marine1: Try looking at the Acer Iconia W510. There are also offerings from Dell and Samsung, IIRC.

I think you'll see the price of Windows 8 tablets begin to fall along with advances in the Intel Atom line of processors. They're pretty good as-is, and when OEMs figure out that not everyone needs an i5 in their tablets, you'll see more offerings with the Atom configuration.



That Acer tablet does look nice, and I especially like the keyboard dock (which I liked on my Asus Transformer TF101), but it's still pretty pricey at over $700. Even the pricey tablet line, the iPads, cost at least $200 less for the baseline models. My wife's Galaxy Tab 2 7" I got for her off of Woot.com for $160, and full size Android tablets are easy to find new for $300 - $400 - which is half the price.

If the Windows 8 (full) tablets were priced around what the iPad is priced at it would probably be a done deal for me and I'd be buying one for sure. A full version of Windows 8 installed would make it a no-brainer for me. Since they're twice that.... not so much. If I was in the market for a small, light laptop though I'd probably be stoked.
 
2013-01-28 05:42:01 PM

Mi-5: fatalvenom: doglover: What I don't get is who upgrades so damn often. I have a Xoom. Had it for over a year. It's still workin' fine. I'm not gonna pay a bunch extra for a freakin' new tablet when mine's still up and runnin'.

Exactly. My GF got me my Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 for Christmas. My friend saw me using it and asked what it was so I told him, he then proceeds to tell me I should get rid of it and get the new Note tablet.

I told him to kindly STFU.

Ha! I laugh at that. I'm one of the 30 people who bought the Lenovo Thinkpad tablet from last year and I'm never giving that up, even though Lenovo apparently has.

/Great piece of gear
//Little to no support, though


I'm still using an HP Touchpad, myself. Not a bad little tablet. WebOS is dead, dead, dead, but it runs CyanogenMod like a champ.
 
2013-01-28 05:44:31 PM

HeartBurnKid: somedude210: The Larch: somedude210: to be fair, it is one of the first to have a usb connection. let alone USB 3.0

That's true... I don't have a USB connection on my goldfish. I don't have a USB connection on my kitchen table. I don't have a USB connection on my toaster. A Surface would be one of the first things in my house to have a USB connection.

To be fair, it wouldn't be on of the first TABLETS to have a USB connection. But it would still be one of the first "things".

Where did I say "things"? I was referring to tablets, as we were all well aware that this was the discussion at hand. As such, I'm fairly certain there are few, if any, tablets out there that have USB ports, or an SD port along with it. That was the point. I'm sorry I pissed in your Wheaties.

What few, if any, tablets might look like



Yeah, my old Asus Transformer pad TF101 was the first Android tablet they put out (IIRC) and it has microsd, mini DVI, a multi-card reader and a couple full sized USB ports - though you did have to connect the tablet to the keyboard dock for the USB ports and card reader.
 
2013-01-28 06:06:52 PM

Marine1: MrSteve007: gingerjet: UberDave: Well, there's also the fact that it is way overpriced.  Hell, you can buy a Win8 touchscreen laptop for cheaper.  I don't know what the heck MS is thinking.  Maybe they are hoping it will be picked up in the business world.

You can get a MacBook Air cheaper.

/its like Microsoft is trying to fail at this business

It's not like it's hard to look this shiat up.

Apple's 11 inch MacBook Air - Link
Price - $999
Storage - 64 gig
Processor - 1.7Ghz Core i5
RAM - 4GB 1600MHz
Display - 1366 x 768
Weight - 2.38 lbs

Microsoft's Surface Pro - Link
Price - $899
Storage - 64 gig
Processor- Core i5 (speed unknown)
RAM - 4 GB
Display - 1920 x 1080 Touchscreen w/ stylus input
Weight 2 lbs

So with the Surface Pro, you get the same processing specs, a much higher res screen, a dual input touch screen and less weight for $100 less? Yep, that's a total fail.

Shhhhhhhhh. We can't like MS products here.


This things is going to fly off the shelf!!!
 
2013-01-28 06:27:53 PM
Who cares, nobody will ever need more than 4Mb of RAM.
 
2013-01-28 06:43:44 PM

whatshisname: Who cares, nobody will ever need more than 4Mb of RAM.


I remember those days
 
2013-01-28 07:00:45 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: whatshisname: Who cares, nobody will ever need more than 4Mb of RAM.

I remember those days


Back when writing elegant code meant something? or Back when you had no choice but to?
 
2013-01-28 07:06:44 PM

Marine1: The laptop isn't a tablet.


this.

regardless of whether you like Google or MS or Apple, stop comparing laptops to tablets. The overwhelming majority of people who buy tablets want a tablet.
 
2013-01-28 07:08:35 PM

MrSteve007: and far more software available for it


1998 called and it wants its talking point back.

/the software that matters is the software you use
//not how much else there is out there
 
2013-01-28 07:11:18 PM

sno man: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: whatshisname: Who cares, nobody will ever need more than 4Mb of RAM.

I remember those days

Back when writing elegant code meant something? or Back when you had no choice but to?


As someone working within 512 bytes of RAM, I'm getting a kick out of this.
 
2013-01-28 07:17:26 PM

december: MrSteve007: and far more software available for it

1998 called and it wants its talking point back.

/the software that matters is the software you use
//not how much else there is out there


There's still plenty of software Mac can't run natively - unless you want to shell out a hundred or two for a second copy of Windows. Because that's such a smart feature . . . paying for two operating systems.

Pretty much 50% of the software on my computer, and 90% of what we use at the office won't run on OSX.

/anxiously awaiting the release of SimCity 5 in March
//goes back to using Autodesk's Revit and rendering in 3Ds Max
 
2013-01-28 07:29:02 PM
I think it is terrible that precious space is WASTED on the already too small SSD on these devices to make a recovery partition. They should include a 16-32GB USB memory stick to provide recovery. What is the point of sticking recovery data on an SSD?!?!?!?
 
2013-01-28 07:37:00 PM
FOOTLONG 128GB of storage space is a registered trademark as a descriptive name for the sub Surface Pro tablet sold in Subway® Restaurants by Microsoft and not intended to be a measurement of length actual storage space.
 
2013-01-28 07:51:28 PM

MrSteve007: december: MrSteve007: and far more software available for it

1998 called and it wants its talking point back.

/the software that matters is the software you use
//not how much else there is out there

There's still plenty of software Mac can't run natively - unless you want to shell out a hundred or two for a second copy of Windows. Because that's such a smart feature . . . paying for two operating systems.

Pretty much 50% of the software on my computer, and 90% of what we use at the office won't run on OSX.



Name some.
 
rpm
2013-01-28 08:06:52 PM

Intrepid00: It still has more storage for the buck and unlike the iPad you can extend the storage using cloud drives, symbolic links


Can't use cloud storage on an iPad like on a surface, huh?

/Don't have an iPad
//Still know that's a dumb statement
///Currently doing ARM assembly on Android. wheeeee
 
2013-01-28 08:13:13 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Haha. Your monolithic kernel was a terrible idea for a device that's primarily a tablet.

I'm just going to assume that it's actually 22.5 gigs and the other half is actually a factory restore partition of that same bundle of useless drivers and bloatware....


It has to be. My SSD with windows7 only uses 37 out of 64 gb. But I also have stuff like office and photo editing software on that drive.

/Planning a wipe soon to get rid of old crap
//Really like keeping my desktop, documents etc on a different drive
/Never lose stuff during a reinstall
 
2013-01-28 08:13:29 PM

moel: Oh and one more thing, that display sounds great..but windows desktop @1080p in 11 inches of space.....yeah...good luck using windows desktop with that....


720p works perfectly in an 11" if you need to do some work on the go. Really digging touch in that format of notebook. Thumbs are already on the screen and it beats having to use a touchpad. Hate those things.

1080p would be cool for movies.

/hates running non-native resolutions
//sniff, crt
 
2013-01-28 08:26:12 PM
usa.asus.com
+
benchmarks-reviews.com
= not too many complaints on the road.
 
2013-01-28 08:40:49 PM

ProfessorOhki: Egoy3k: ProfessorOhki: Egoy3k: You guys are both lame. I have an even older tablet and it works just fine.

[www.compromise-agreements.org image 285x389]
hotlinked

Oh please, that's just a toy; you can't do any serious computing on one of those. Get yourself a real tablet:
[www.nordisco.com image 560x560]

/hot

I love those things. I'm an engineer who hardly ever does any design any more so I had a lot of those pads laying around. They all got used for designing minecraft structures and wiring.

The reality is though that more real engineering gets done on bar napkins than it does on expensive PCS with modern design software. We'd spend hours staring at a screen trying to figure out a problem only to give up and go for a brew. Sure enough the next day I'd pull a napkin out of my coat pocket and have the solution I needed. Sure the details get worked out on the computer but the basic ideas always seem to come when you aren't at the computer. Well that's my experience anyway.

[images1.vat19.com image 475x316]

:)


That's funny. Just had a conversation about adding a shower to the office for that reason today.

Til that happens, I'll stick with my Hillbilly Palm Pilot:
dissociatedpress.com
 
2013-01-28 08:41:25 PM

DerAppie: //Really like keeping my desktop, documents etc on a different drive
/Never lose stuff during a reinstall


I work for a fairly large company, and each of our 6,000 managed PCs have a separate partition to hold personal files.  Our desktop team can re-image a workstation and have someone back up and running in under 30 minutes.  They got so good at it the governance board relaxed the rules for local admin access since if someone farks up their machine, we can just redo the whole thing without any fuss.

You still get put in the penalty box if you infect your machine, though.  We apparently have some die-hard idiots on staff - they show up in the monthly reports time and time again with compromised boxes, and every time they get compromised, they have to go to a 2 hour remedial "don't fark up your machine" class.
 
2013-01-28 09:36:49 PM

mongbiohazard: Marine1: Try looking at the Acer Iconia W510. There are also offerings from Dell and Samsung, IIRC.

I think you'll see the price of Windows 8 tablets begin to fall along with advances in the Intel Atom line of processors. They're pretty good as-is, and when OEMs figure out that not everyone needs an i5 in their tablets, you'll see more offerings with the Atom configuration.


That Acer tablet does look nice, and I especially like the keyboard dock (which I liked on my Asus Transformer TF101), but it's still pretty pricey at over $700. Even the pricey tablet line, the iPads, cost at least $200 less for the baseline models. My wife's Galaxy Tab 2 7" I got for her off of Woot.com for $160, and full size Android tablets are easy to find new for $300 - $400 - which is half the price.

If the Windows 8 (full) tablets were priced around what the iPad is priced at it would probably be a done deal for me and I'd be buying one for sure. A full version of Windows 8 installed would make it a no-brainer for me. Since they're twice that.... not so much. If I was in the market for a small, light laptop though I'd probably be stoked.


FWIW, the keyboard is optional. Even without it (the touchpad for the cursor farkin' sucks btw), battery life is excellent and performance can run most stuff in a reasonable fashion. Without it, it's $499, which is pretty reasonable.

If Acer had bothered to A) market the thing and B) do a better job with the touchpad... they would have, hands-down, the best tablet for the money on the market today.
 
2013-01-28 10:43:31 PM

Marine1: If Acer had bothered to A) market the thing and B) do a better job with the touchpad... they would have, hands-down, the best tablet for the money on the market today.


Acer has never had and never will be responsible any product that is better than the filth that lives on dog excrement.

That said, there are some excellent Android tablets out there. One of the really great things is that tier-1 OEMs actually did do a really good job of differentiating the products. My Galaxy 8.9" has the same screen resolution as a normal 10" tablet but only weighs about half as much. My Xoom has 128GB of internal storage thanks to its microSD slot. My Thrive has a removable battery and a standard USB port. My Nexus 10 has a completely ridiculous high resolution screen. All those things are awesome if they're the make or break deal for you and at least in the world of Android stuff, you get a choice. Maybe that will happen with Windows Surface and maybe it won't. As it stands right now, I don't really care all that much, but I am excited to see new possibilities for this kind of computing.
 
2013-01-29 08:43:42 AM

somedude210: dentalhilljack: My year old Iconia has both USB and microSD available. It ain't the prettiest or fastest tablet out there, but moving files on and off is a breeze and my movie library for trips is a card swap away.

/Mrs. Hilljack likes having a separate thumbdrive for her sensitive work files.

Iconia? Acer makes tablets? Are they any good?

That said, I thought originally the Surface was going to be the first tablet to offer native USB support. I was mistaken and for that I apologize.


It's solid if unspectacular. My relatives got them for us because they were on sale (not the most technologically astute basis...should have given them better guidance but live & learn). They run Ice Cream Sandwich..hers is a model higher and is supposed to get Jelly Bean. They do what we need - emails, browsing, videos, music, basic office editing, games, etc. Not a high def display on them but I'm not looking for a portable screen to match like my TV. The chips get a little laggy but they recover pretty quickly. It's definitely not an Ipad or a Galaxy, but I don't need it to be. It's a secondary device for me, and for that it fits the bill.
 
2013-01-29 09:05:17 AM

Chevello: Til that happens, I'll stick with my Hillbilly Palm Pilot:


dissociatedpress.com

You found a left hand model?
 
2013-01-29 01:49:15 PM

doczoidberg: I really hope this Surface tablet is a total failure.

Succeeding will only encourage Microsoft to force more of that Metro BS on us with Windows.

People, please! Don't buy the Surface!


I'm running Windows 8 at work and metro isn't as annoying as people first think it is. Delete all of the tiles except for things you use every week (which is about 10 apps for most people) and it's actually pretty convenient.
 
2013-01-29 02:28:21 PM

jonny_q: shill speak./i>

You are VERY bad at your job and should be fired.

Tablets running desktop OS's have existed since the days of Windows 3.1.

Seriously, you need to be fired like now. You suck.

 
2013-01-29 07:38:08 PM
I'm failing to find too much wrong with it. It has a recovery partition that can be deleted, and you can probably remove anything you don't want. If the base install can get down to 10gb or so, that'd probably leave 100gb give or take after formatting. I'm rooting for Microsoft on this one--- I'm an apple guy personally, but I'd love to get a surface pro. Makes me wonder if the 64gb lte iPad mini was a bad decision... Next round of upgrades for me will hopefully have some good choices. ;-)
 
2013-01-30 07:57:11 AM
I'm thinking of buying someone else's used Surface and running Linux on it.
 
2013-01-30 09:24:52 AM

psy5ive: stuff


If you wanted a full fat tablet... Why'd you buy a slate? They've been around since the GRiDPAD by GRiD Computing (later known as Palm) in 1989 or so. They're of equal capabilities, battery life and indeed weight to the Surface Pro.

Which honestly isn't that good a tablet. Kinda like the Surface doesn't seem that good a slate.
 
2013-01-30 05:34:59 PM

Vaneshi: You are VERY bad at your job and should be fired.

Tablets running desktop OS's have existed since the days of Windows 3.1.

Seriously, you need to be fired like now. You suck.


1. You suck at quoting.
2. I said that it would probably suck and not live up to expectations... what part of that makes me a shill
3. I'm aware that tablets have been running desktop OSs for a long time. But not tablets that are both finger-friendly (capacitive touch screen) and stylus friendly (whatever the fark these newfangled things use) Old tablets use resistive screens that work fairly well with styluses but suck balls when you use your finger. Capacitive touch screens are a godsend, but combining them with a stylus friendly input in a tablet is a new development. As far as I know, this is the first tablet that has all that. I'm aware that there are a few Android phones out there with the same tech, but that's not a full desktop general purpose OS.
 
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