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(Expert Reviews (UK))   If you've ever wanted to buy a tablet with either 30% or 60% less storage space than you paid for...then Feb 9th will be your lucky day   (expertreviews.co.uk) divider line 138
    More: Fail, Microsoft, cloud storage, reverse transcriptases, SkyDrive, Android devices, SSD, dry cask storage, ARM architecture  
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9685 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Jan 2013 at 11:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



138 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-01-28 09:06:30 AM
45G of OS and bloatware?!?  nice.
 
2013-01-28 09:27:59 AM
What I don't get is who upgrades so damn often. I have a Xoom. Had it for over a year. It's still workin' fine. I'm not gonna pay a bunch extra for a freakin' new tablet when mine's still up and runnin'.
 
2013-01-28 09:32:37 AM
In its defence, Microsoft has pointed out that the Surface Pro includes a USB 3.0 port for high-speed connectivity to external storage devices such as pen drives or hard disks, along with a free SkyDrive cloud storage account offering an additional 7GB of web-based storage.

Remarkable tablet, the Surface Pro.  Beautiful plumage!!
 
2013-01-28 09:32:49 AM
The Asus Tai Chi 128 only has 70G out of the 128 it's supposed to have due to OS, bloatware, and "recovery disk." It's called format and reinstall only what you need.
 
2013-01-28 09:39:34 AM

dahmers love zombie: In its defence, Microsoft has pointed out that the Surface Pro includes a USB 3.0 port for high-speed connectivity to external storage devices such as pen drives or hard disks, along with a free SkyDrive cloud storage account offering an additional 7GB of web-based storage.

Remarkable tablet, the Surface Pro.  Beautiful plumage!!


to be fair, it is one of the first to have a usb connection. let alone USB 3.0
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-28 10:00:09 AM
It would be exactly as much storage as I paid for: a lot, but not enough to last forever. There is no difference between 80 GB and 100 GB. There is also no difference between a binary terabyte and a metric terabyte.
 
2013-01-28 10:00:12 AM
With the devices failing to reach the promised capacities - and Barrons claiming that Microsoft may have sold as few as 230,000 Surface RT tablets worldwide - the company may struggle to convince tablet fans to switch from their iPads or Android devices.


Well, there's also the fact that it is way overpriced.  Hell, you can buy a Win8 touchscreen laptop for cheaper.  I don't know what the heck MS is thinking.  Maybe they are hoping it will be picked up in the business world.
 
2013-01-28 10:25:48 AM

UberDave: With the devices failing to reach the promised capacities - and Barrons claiming that Microsoft may have sold as few as 230,000 Surface RT tablets worldwide - the company may struggle to convince tablet fans to switch from their iPads or Android devices.


Well, there's also the fact that it is way overpriced.  Hell, you can buy a Win8 touchscreen laptop for cheaper.  I don't know what the heck MS is thinking.  Maybe they are hoping it will be picked up in the business world.


I don't see any reason for the business world to pick it up.  You can get a hybrid laptop for less.  Get a 128GB Surface Pro with a TypeCover keyboard and you're well above $1100 for something that, for all intents and purposes, is a limited hybrid laptop.
 
2013-01-28 10:46:48 AM

Lsherm: UberDave: With the devices failing to reach the promised capacities - and Barrons claiming that Microsoft may have sold as few as 230,000 Surface RT tablets worldwide - the company may struggle to convince tablet fans to switch from their iPads or Android devices.


Well, there's also the fact that it is way overpriced.  Hell, you can buy a Win8 touchscreen laptop for cheaper.  I don't know what the heck MS is thinking.  Maybe they are hoping it will be picked up in the business world.

I don't see any reason for the business world to pick it up.  You can get a hybrid laptop for less.  Get a 128GB Surface Pro with a TypeCover keyboard and you're well above $1100 for something that, for all intents and purposes, is a limited hybrid laptop.



Pretty much.  I keep thinking they designed it per some industrial spec or something.  There was plenty of buzz around this thing just like the RT.  But when they announced the price which was well beyond competitor tablets, that "buzz" dropped off real quick.

If they don't change something fast, this thing will go the way of the Zune in 1/4 the time.  I'm guessing that they will sell no better than a similarly priced laptop/notebook and in about a year, they will lower the price but by then, it will be dying.  I hope I'm wrong.
 
2013-01-28 10:53:22 AM
Will it sync with my Zune?
 
2013-01-28 11:14:34 AM

wambu: Will it sync with my Zune?


Yes, actually, it will. This runs the full version of Win 8, so you can install the Zune software on the tablet and sync.
 
2013-01-28 11:16:08 AM
I do like the idea of the surface pro w/ its digitizer, but I find the price off putting.
 
2013-01-28 11:16:40 AM

UberDave:


Well, there's also the fact that it is way overpriced.  Hell, you can buy a Win8 touchscreen laptop for cheaper.  I don't know what the heck MS is thinking.  Maybe they are hoping it will be picked up in the business world.



This. There's no way that MS can compete with Apple in the "Look how cool I am!" department. They should going after budget conscious users who don't want to pay Apple prices.
 
2013-01-28 11:18:24 AM

Old enough to know better: UberDave:


Well, there's also the fact that it is way overpriced.  Hell, you can buy a Win8 touchscreen laptop for cheaper.  I don't know what the heck MS is thinking.  Maybe they are hoping it will be picked up in the business world.


This. There's no way that MS can compete with Apple in the "Look how cool I am!" department. They should going after budget conscious users who don't want to pay Apple prices.


But those users are all buying Samsung tablets, and I don't think Microsoft can compete with them on price.
 
2013-01-28 11:18:34 AM
Having USB > every other tablet but still super expensive for how limited tablets are.

/written on iPad3
//piece of shiat
///its like signing up for pop ups from every website
 
2013-01-28 11:19:22 AM

doglover: What I don't get is who upgrades so damn often. I have a Xoom. Had it for over a year. It's still workin' fine. I'm not gonna pay a bunch extra for a freakin' new tablet when mine's still up and runnin'.


Exactly. My GF got me my Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 for Christmas. My friend saw me using it and asked what it was so I told him, he then proceeds to tell me I should get rid of it and get the new Note tablet.

I told him to kindly STFU.
 
2013-01-28 11:20:13 AM
In its defence, Microsoft has pointed out that the Surface Pro includes a USB 3.0 port for high-speed connectivity to external storage devices such as pen drives or hard disks, along with a free SkyDrive cloud storage account offering an additional 7GB of web-based storage.

Does it also have a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time?
 
2013-01-28 11:21:08 AM

Crudbucket: wambu: Will it sync with my Zune?

Yes, actually, it will. This runs the full version of Win 8, so you can install the Zune software on the tablet and sync.


And iTunes as well, so you can sync with an iPod, something an iPad WON'T actually do.

Since it seems to have a nice digitizer, when the price drops it might make a great tablet for digital art, since you can run the full versions of Photoshop and Illustrator without all the bulk and weight previous tablets had. It could be a godsend to artists and designers.
 
2013-01-28 11:25:08 AM
45GB for the OS is before the "updates".
 
Xai
2013-01-28 11:25:36 AM
what, a PC with software pre-installed? I must tell the entire internet about this new and surprising development! Off to fark!
 
2013-01-28 11:25:41 AM

Lsherm: I don't see any reason for the business world to pick it up


If you're looking for an alternative to BES or 3LM, a Microsoft tablet is the way to go.
 
2013-01-28 11:28:01 AM
Same thing happened with my Nook. Bought it with 2 GB of "storage" space, and found out that of that 2 GB, only 250MB was available, because the rest was either the OS, or a dedicated, locked storage for only the books I downloaded from the B&N store. Nice to get access to 12% of the advertised space, isn't it?
 
2013-01-28 11:29:49 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: In its defence, Microsoft has pointed out that the Surface Pro includes a USB 3.0 port for high-speed connectivity to external storage devices such as pen drives or hard disks, along with a free SkyDrive cloud storage account offering an additional 7GB of web-based storage.

Does it also have a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time?


You'll shoot your eye out.
 
2013-01-28 11:33:47 AM
I really hope this Surface tablet is a total failure.

Succeeding will only encourage Microsoft to force more of that Metro BS on us with Windows.

People, please! Don't buy the Surface!
 
2013-01-28 11:34:02 AM

UberDave: Well, there's also the fact that it is way overpriced.  Hell, you can buy a Win8 touchscreen laptop for cheaper.  I don't know what the heck MS is thinking.  Maybe they are hoping it will be picked up in the business world.


You can get a MacBook Air cheaper.

/its like Microsoft is trying to fail at this business
 
2013-01-28 11:36:47 AM

Mad_Radhu: Since it seems to have a nice digitizer, when the price drops it might make a great tablet for digital art, since you can run the full versions of Photoshop and Illustrator without all the bulk and weight previous tablets had. It could be a godsend to artists and designers


Ah.  No.  Windows RT versions of Photoshop and Illustrator do not exist.  And even if it did - I'm betting that performance wise - it would really suck.
 
2013-01-28 11:38:48 AM

Mikey1969: Same thing happened with my Nook. Bought it with 2 GB of "storage" space, and found out that of that 2 GB, only 250MB was available, because the rest was either the OS, or a dedicated, locked storage for only the books I downloaded from the B&N store. Nice to get access to 12% of the advertised space, isn't it?


It has a MicroSD slot. I store all my books and media on that.
 
2013-01-28 11:39:06 AM
35% fraud? That should be a hanging
 
2013-01-28 11:39:23 AM

gingerjet: Mad_Radhu: Since it seems to have a nice digitizer, when the price drops it might make a great tablet for digital art, since you can run the full versions of Photoshop and Illustrator without all the bulk and weight previous tablets had. It could be a godsend to artists and designers

Ah.  No.  Windows RT versions of Photoshop and Illustrator do not exist.  And even if it did - I'm betting that performance wise - it would really suck.


Ah, this is the ARM Surface, not the RT which came out back in October.
 
2013-01-28 11:40:29 AM

Crudbucket: gingerjet: Mad_Radhu: Since it seems to have a nice digitizer, when the price drops it might make a great tablet for digital art, since you can run the full versions of Photoshop and Illustrator without all the bulk and weight previous tablets had. It could be a godsend to artists and designers

Ah.  No.  Windows RT versions of Photoshop and Illustrator do not exist.  And even if it did - I'm betting that performance wise - it would really suck.

Ah, this is the ARM Surface, not the RT which came out back in October.


Ah, I think you mean Surface Pro, not the ARM Surface.

/dumbass
 
2013-01-28 11:47:06 AM
Win8 itself is only 20GB (I checked).

That means there is 20-25GB of additional BLOAT on Surface Pro besides the OS. Office 2013 only needs 3GB.
 
2013-01-28 11:48:20 AM
FTFA:
The issue becomes more pressing when the cheaper 64GB model is taken into account: the space used up by the operating system and pre-installed applications is the same between devices, so - allowing for differences in actual capacity between the two solid-state drives - the 64GB Surface Pro may have as little as 23GB of user-accessible space.

Jesus titty-farking christ. That's pretty farking awful.
 
2013-01-28 11:58:34 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Mikey1969: Same thing happened with my Nook. Bought it with 2 GB of "storage" space, and found out that of that 2 GB, only 250MB was available, because the rest was either the OS, or a dedicated, locked storage for only the books I downloaded from the B&N store. Nice to get access to 12% of the advertised space, isn't it?

It has a MicroSD slot. I store all my books and media on that.


I know that, but I didn't have one, and due to the fact that it was Christmas last year when I got it, money was tight for awhile. The point is that it was the same situation as this surface tablet, they advertise 'X', provide 'Y', and the difference between 'X' and 'Y' is outside of an acceptable range.
 
2013-01-28 12:00:45 PM
It could have a 500GB hard drive, and I don't think anyone would care. The Surface is a mediocre idea aimed to fix a problem that didn't exist in the first place. Even if the price was slashed 50%, I don't see anyone really buying it.
 
2013-01-28 12:03:14 PM

Crudbucket: Crudbucket: gingerjet: Mad_Radhu: Since it seems to have a nice digitizer, when the price drops it might make a great tablet for digital art, since you can run the full versions of Photoshop and Illustrator without all the bulk and weight previous tablets had. It could be a godsend to artists and designers

Ah.  No.  Windows RT versions of Photoshop and Illustrator do not exist.  And even if it did - I'm betting that performance wise - it would really suck.

Ah, this is the ARM Surface, not the RT which came out back in October.

Ah, I think you mean Surface Pro, not the ARM Surface.

/dumbass


This exchange is one of the major problems with the entire surface line: even for someone as technologically savvy as you or me, it's too farking easy to confuse the models. How does MS really expect Joe Consumer to keep them straight?
 
2013-01-28 12:07:03 PM

madgonad: Win8 itself is only 20GB (I checked).

That means there is 20-25GB of additional BLOAT on Surface Pro besides the OS. Office 2013 only needs 3GB.


Well, they have to store an image of the OS + the bloatware if you need to reset the device, so I'd guess that takes up a good chunk of space.
 
2013-01-28 12:07:11 PM

doglover: What I don't get is who upgrades so damn often. I have a Xoom. Had it for over a year. It's still workin' fine. I'm not gonna pay a bunch extra for a freakin' new tablet when mine's still up and runnin'.


Same here. I still have my first gen Nook Color (rooted, Cyanogen), and it's going strong. Don't see the need to buy another one just to get something newer.
 
2013-01-28 12:19:50 PM

The Crepes of Wrath: doglover: What I don't get is who upgrades so damn often. I have a Xoom. Had it for over a year. It's still workin' fine. I'm not gonna pay a bunch extra for a freakin' new tablet when mine's still up and runnin'.

Same here. I still have my first gen Nook Color (rooted, Cyanogen), and it's going strong. Don't see the need to buy another one just to get something newer.


You guys are both lame. I have an even older tablet and it works just fine.

www.compromise-agreements.org
hotlinked

More seriously though I bought my wife an HP envy for school and it cost less than the surface it's pretty thin, has a lot more storage space, outperforms the surface pro and the keyboard is a nice tactile keyboard with a back light. Why would I even consider a tablet?
 
2013-01-28 12:24:42 PM

The Crepes of Wrath: doglover: What I don't get is who upgrades so damn often. I have a Xoom. Had it for over a year. It's still workin' fine. I'm not gonna pay a bunch extra for a freakin' new tablet when mine's still up and runnin'.

Same here. I still have my first gen Nook Color (rooted, Cyanogen), and it's going strong. Don't see the need to buy another one just to get something newer.


In your case, going from a Nook color, to a Nook Tablet HD, the difference is huge.
Even at the same price point, going to a Nexus 7 is a big step up.
It's not so much the latest thing, it's you have a very underpowered tablet.
 
2013-01-28 12:25:58 PM

dahmers love zombie: In its defence, Microsoft has pointed out that the Surface Pro includes a USB 3.0 port for high-speed connectivity to external storage devices such as pen drives or hard disks, along with a free SkyDrive cloud storage account offering an additional 7GB of web-based storage.


The sad thing is, for the minimal expense of adding an SDXC card slot, a lot of this controversy would be mitigated. But thanks to the trend of companies substantially marking up products with a little extra storage for additional profits, this didn't happen.
 
2013-01-28 12:33:56 PM

Supes: The sad thing is, for the minimal expense of adding an SDXC card slot, a lot of this controversy would be mitigated. But thanks to the trend of companies substantially marking up products with a little extra storage for additional profits, this didn't happen.


I think it does have a SD card slot. I'm using a 64gb microSD card in my 32gb Surface RT.
 
2013-01-28 12:34:56 PM

YodaBlues: Ah. No. Windows RT versions of Photoshop and Illustrator do not exist. And even if it did - I'm betting that performance wise - it would really suck.

Ah, this is the ARM Surface, not the RT which came out back in October.

Ah, I think you mean Surface Pro, not the ARM Surface.

/dumbass

This exchange is one of the major problems with the entire surface line: even for someone as technologically savvy as you or me, it's too farking easy to confuse the models. How does MS really expect Joe Consumer to keep them straight?


Agreed. I pay attention, I care, and I STILL have to go online to look up a cheat-sheet to keep the different versions straight when someone asks me the difference. I can just imagine my mom walking into a Windows store, looking at the wall of tablets blankly for a bit, getting frustrated and leaving.

Someone else has mentioned this before, but I too am curious what the return rate is of people buying one version then taking it back a few days later when it turns out it can't run the software they thought it would run.
 
2013-01-28 12:37:23 PM

skazzytl: Supes: The sad thing is, for the minimal expense of adding an SDXC card slot, a lot of this controversy would be mitigated. But thanks to the trend of companies substantially marking up products with a little extra storage for additional profits, this didn't happen.

I think it does have a SD card slot. I'm using a 64gb microSD card in my 32gb Surface RT.


If so, my bad, and Microsoft should just throw in a $20 32GB card to help make up for the storage and offset bad press.
 
2013-01-28 12:44:02 PM

gingerjet: Mad_Radhu: Since it seems to have a nice digitizer, when the price drops it might make a great tablet for digital art, since you can run the full versions of Photoshop and Illustrator without all the bulk and weight previous tablets had. It could be a godsend to artists and designers

Ah.  No.  Windows RT versions of Photoshop and Illustrator do not exist.  And even if it did - I'm betting that performance wise - it would really suck.


As mentioned above, the Surface Pro that we are discussing has Win 8 Pro and an i5 processor, so it is functionally equivalent to a regular Windows computer. Aside from the relatively stingy amount of RAM on the tablet, it should run most content creation software well. Also, with a SSD, Photoshop having to go to the scratch disk might not really hurt performance as much as a regular hard drive.
 
2013-01-28 12:46:56 PM

OceanVortex: This exchange is one of the major problems with the entire surface line: even for someone as technologically savvy as you or me, it's too farking easy to confuse the models. How does MS really expect Joe Consumer to keep them straight?


This exchange is one of the major problems with most of Microsoft's product lines. How many versions of an OS can they possibly sell....
 
2013-01-28 12:51:20 PM

Crudbucket: Ah, this is the ARM Surface, not the RT which came out back in October.


Ah I missed that.  My bad.  But still don't think the performance is there.  But we'll see I guess.
 
2013-01-28 12:58:07 PM
Is this the one where everyone talks about how crappy a product they've never used is?
 
2013-01-28 01:00:15 PM
What do you want to bet it's got some stupidly large paging file configured. It's still Windows on the inside.
 
2013-01-28 01:02:46 PM
Haha. Your monolithic kernel was a terrible idea for a device that's primarily a tablet.

I'm just going to assume that it's actually 22.5 gigs and the other half is actually a factory restore partition of that same bundle of useless drivers and bloatware....
 
2013-01-28 01:03:56 PM
I was considering getting an SSD for my laptop but I worked out that 128GB wasn't enough, especially once you lost the amount for Windows and Visual Studio and other tools.

I don't know how this can be classed as a "pro" machine.
 
2013-01-28 01:04:42 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Haha. Your monolithic kernel was a terrible idea for a device that's primarily a tablet.

I'm just going to assume that it's actually 22.5 gigs and the other half is actually a factory restore partition of that same bundle of useless drivers and bloatware....


Microsoft-sold Windows devices don't come with bloatware. They're given clean installs, short of other Microsoft programs.

The Surface RT didn't include any; I don't see this one including any either.
 
2013-01-28 01:06:55 PM
Believe it or not, I have customers who actually want Surface Pro as an alternative to a full-featured point of sale system. They're already getting completely hosed on POS costs for extremely underpowered hardware, and since these guys are grown-up computers, they're just fine with some kind of oddball stuff like wireless USB hubs for printing support (since their application requires a local receipt printer for some stupid reason) and the like.

Also, having 80GB of free solid-state space isn't exactly roughing it; it's more space than is available on any iOS device or almost any Android tablet. Business systems I support normally wind up using about 60GB of whatever drive I use with them, including apps and updates. Betweem SkyDrive/Google Drive/Dropbox, there's tons of places to put personal data without filling up a local disk.

Finally, I'm pretty sure these are meant to be business machines suitable for fleet deployments, much like a Thinkpad or Latitude machine. Typically, there's a bit of a trade-off between reliability and slightly less than exciting hardware specs... though to be honest, anything with an i5 and a decent SSD is going to be pretty nice no matter what. But yes, these things are expensive compared to shiatty consumer laptops that happen to also have i5s and 128GB SSDs.
 
2013-01-28 01:08:35 PM
Remember that the reason these things do not sell is the hardware manufactures fault.

Not MicroSoft.

Not MicroSoft.

They keep telling everyone that it is somebody else's fault these don't sell.

If only someone else could build the hardware that worked correctly then these things would fly off the shelves.

It's not MS's fault. Really.

/developers developers developers
//all writing iOS applications
 
2013-01-28 01:08:57 PM

gingerjet: UberDave: Well, there's also the fact that it is way overpriced.  Hell, you can buy a Win8 touchscreen laptop for cheaper.  I don't know what the heck MS is thinking.  Maybe they are hoping it will be picked up in the business world.

You can get a MacBook Air cheaper.

/its like Microsoft is trying to fail at this business


It's not like it's hard to look this shiat up.

Apple's 11 inch MacBook Air - Link
Price - $999
Storage - 64 gig
Processor - 1.7Ghz Core i5
RAM - 4GB 1600MHz
Display - 1366 x 768
Weight - 2.38 lbs

Microsoft's Surface Pro - Link
Price - $899
Storage - 64 gig
Processor- Core i5 (speed unknown)
RAM - 4 GB
Display - 1920 x 1080 Touchscreen w/ stylus input
Weight 2 lbs

So with the Surface Pro, you get the same processing specs, a much higher res screen, a dual input touch screen and less weight for $100 less? Yep, that's a total fail.
 
2013-01-28 01:11:16 PM

doglover: What I don't get is who upgrades so damn often. I have a Xoom. Had it for over a year. It's still workin' fine. I'm not gonna pay a bunch extra for a freakin' new tablet when mine's still up and runnin'.


I've had my xoom forever, still use it today, I have it running 4.1.1 JB and oc'd to 1.5ghz(can do 1.7ghz but it gets too hot), still out does almost every tablet.
 
2013-01-28 01:15:04 PM

MrSteve007: gingerjet: UberDave: Well, there's also the fact that it is way overpriced.  Hell, you can buy a Win8 touchscreen laptop for cheaper.  I don't know what the heck MS is thinking.  Maybe they are hoping it will be picked up in the business world.

You can get a MacBook Air cheaper.

/its like Microsoft is trying to fail at this business

It's not like it's hard to look this shiat up.

Apple's 11 inch MacBook Air - Link
Price - $999
Storage - 64 gig
Processor - 1.7Ghz Core i5
RAM - 4GB 1600MHz
Display - 1366 x 768
Weight - 2.38 lbs

Microsoft's Surface Pro - Link
Price - $899
Storage - 64 gig
Processor- Core i5 (speed unknown)
RAM - 4 GB
Display - 1920 x 1080 Touchscreen w/ stylus input
Weight 2 lbs

So with the Surface Pro, you get the same processing specs, a much higher res screen, a dual input touch screen and less weight for $100 less? Yep, that's a total fail.


Shhhhhhhhh. We can't like MS products here.
 
2013-01-28 01:20:56 PM
Microsoft may have sold as few as 230,000 Surface RT tablets worldwide

Maybe the problem is that I can't buy one even if I want to, because I don't live in one of the ten countries where it's being sold? Fark Microsoft, this is the real FAIL.
 
2013-01-28 01:22:29 PM
Didn't read TFA of course, but did they mention the SD slot?
 
2013-01-28 01:23:28 PM

MrSteve007: gingerjet: UberDave: Well, there's also the fact that it is way overpriced.  Hell, you can buy a Win8 touchscreen laptop for cheaper.  I don't know what the heck MS is thinking.  Maybe they are hoping it will be picked up in the business world.

You can get a MacBook Air cheaper.

/its like Microsoft is trying to fail at this business

It's not like it's hard to look this shiat up.

Apple's 11 inch MacBook Air - Link
Price - $999
Storage - 64 gig
Processor - 1.7Ghz Core i5
RAM - 4GB 1600MHz
Display - 1366 x 768
Weight - 2.38 lbs

Microsoft's Surface Pro - Link
Price - $899
Storage - 64 gig
Processor- Core i5 (speed unknown)
RAM - 4 GB
Display - 1920 x 1080 Touchscreen w/ stylus input
Weight 2 lbs

So with the Surface Pro, you get the same processing specs, a much higher res screen, a dual input touch screen and less weight for $100 less? Yep, that's a total fail.


Don't forget though...touch keyboard $100
4 hour battery life vs 8
Laptop you can use on any height desk...vs one that you can't even use on an airline seat tray

/justsayin
 
2013-01-28 01:26:48 PM
Oh and one more thing, that display sounds great..but windows desktop @1080p in 11 inches of space.....yeah...good luck using windows desktop with that....
 
2013-01-28 01:27:05 PM

moel: MrSteve007: gingerjet: UberDave: Well, there's also the fact that it is way overpriced.  Hell, you can buy a Win8 touchscreen laptop for cheaper.  I don't know what the heck MS is thinking.  Maybe they are hoping it will be picked up in the business world.

You can get a MacBook Air cheaper.

/its like Microsoft is trying to fail at this business

It's not like it's hard to look this shiat up.

Apple's 11 inch MacBook Air - Link
Price - $999
Storage - 64 gig
Processor - 1.7Ghz Core i5
RAM - 4GB 1600MHz
Display - 1366 x 768
Weight - 2.38 lbs

Microsoft's Surface Pro - Link
Price - $899
Storage - 64 gig
Processor- Core i5 (speed unknown)
RAM - 4 GB
Display - 1920 x 1080 Touchscreen w/ stylus input
Weight 2 lbs

So with the Surface Pro, you get the same processing specs, a much higher res screen, a dual input touch screen and less weight for $100 less? Yep, that's a total fail.

Don't forget though...touch keyboard $100
4 hour battery life vs 8
Laptop you can use on any height desk...vs one that you can't even use on an airline seat tray

/justsayin


The laptop isn't a tablet.
 
2013-01-28 01:30:39 PM

Marine1: Microsoft-sold Windows devices don't come with bloatware.


What do you call the bundled Bing and Xbox apps? Just because they're Microsoft's add-on crap aimed at marketing other products they're not add-on crap aimed at marketing other products?
 
2013-01-28 01:33:00 PM
This is the tablet we've been waiting for since the inception of tablets. It runs a real desktop OS. It's stylus-friendly and finger-friendly. It can be used with a keyboard and other peripherals. This is the tablet that could finally replace those old Windows XP tablets you see at medical facilities. This is the tablet I would like to have at work to carry around the office when I want to show someone something.

I don't think devoting 1/3 of the hard drive to OS is bad.. but yeah, releasing a 64GB model where 40GB+ is used by the OS is a bit much.

That said, it'll probably be crap and not even remotely live up to what it's supposed to be.The price is ridiculous, too.

Don't expect it to get iPad-level hype. That's not the point. But this is the first tablet in the better part of a decade that has a chance to break into the business market. And if it does, you may see more consumers with them since consumers tend to like to use at home what they use at work.
 
2013-01-28 01:35:40 PM
I still think one of Microsoft's biggest mistakes with this was not including the Touch Cover with the tablet automatically (or +$30 for the Type Cover substituted). It's a deceptive substantial extra expense.
 
2013-01-28 01:40:53 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Marine1: Microsoft-sold Windows devices don't come with bloatware.

What do you call the bundled Bing and Xbox apps? Just because they're Microsoft's add-on crap aimed at marketing other products they're not add-on crap aimed at marketing other products?


I call it integration with the ecosystem. Bloatware is the crap that third-parties make to offer a way for OEMs to "differentiate" their products. It's coded by lobotomized monkeys and is damned near impossible to remove. After using Windows 8 on a tablet, I can confirm that yes, it does add to the experience in a non-intrusive way, and if it really bothers you that much, you hold down on the icon until the bar appears on the bottom of the screen with the "uninstall" button on it.

/you'd be calling them stupid for NOT including those things if they didn't.
 
2013-01-28 01:41:33 PM
I will be buying a new tablet sometime soon. I would love it to be the new Microsoft one like this one in TFA which runs a full version of Windows 8. That way I could navigate through my home network and play my files directly over my LAN.

But it's just too damn expensive. So instead I'll be getting a new Android tablet or iPad and continuing to use Plex instead. Plex is awesome and all, but I like the simplicity of just browsing my LAN instead.
 
2013-01-28 01:41:57 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: In your case, going from a Nook color, to a Nook Tablet HD, the difference is huge.
Even at the same price point, going to a Nexus 7 is a big step up.
It's not so much the latest thing, it's you have a very underpowered tablet.


Oh, I don't argue with that. It's just that my tablet needs are pretty minimal, especially in a 7" profile. Reading during my train commute, and watching movies/TV shows during lunch. For the Nook, that accounts for 95% of my usage. An HD display would definitely be better for the videos, but eh -- still not all that big a deal for me. I do anticipate getting whatever the current Nexus 7 is when the Nook finally dies.
 
2013-01-28 01:45:38 PM

mongbiohazard: I will be buying a new tablet sometime soon. I would love it to be the new Microsoft one like this one in TFA which runs a full version of Windows 8. That way I could navigate through my home network and play my files directly over my LAN.

But it's just too damn expensive. So instead I'll be getting a new Android tablet or iPad and continuing to use Plex instead. Plex is awesome and all, but I like the simplicity of just browsing my LAN instead.


Try looking at the Acer Iconia W510. There are also offerings from Dell and Samsung, IIRC.

I think you'll see the price of Windows 8 tablets begin to fall along with advances in the Intel Atom line of processors. They're pretty good as-is, and when OEMs figure out that not everyone needs an i5 in their tablets, you'll see more offerings with the Atom configuration.
 
2013-01-28 01:50:59 PM

likefunbutnot: Believe it or not, I have customers who actually want Surface Pro as an alternative to a full-featured point of sale system. They're already getting completely hosed on POS costs for extremely underpowered hardware, and since these guys are grown-up computers, they're just fine with some kind of oddball stuff like wireless USB hubs for printing support (since their application requires a local receipt printer for some stupid reason) and the like.


Why not do it with Android?
 
2013-01-28 01:52:33 PM

farkeruk: likefunbutnot: Believe it or not, I have customers who actually want Surface Pro as an alternative to a full-featured point of sale system. They're already getting completely hosed on POS costs for extremely underpowered hardware, and since these guys are grown-up computers, they're just fine with some kind of oddball stuff like wireless USB hubs for printing support (since their application requires a local receipt printer for some stupid reason) and the like.

Why not do it with Android?


Active Directory and a completely new system to deal with.

/Android is the new Windows 9.x
 
2013-01-28 01:54:15 PM

Egoy3k: You guys are both lame. I have an even older tablet and it works just fine.

[www.compromise-agreements.org image 285x389]
hotlinked


Oh please, that's just a toy; you can't do any serious computing on one of those. Get yourself a real tablet:
www.nordisco.com

/hot
 
2013-01-28 01:56:44 PM

moel: MrSteve007: gingerjet: UberDave: Well, there's also the fact that it is way overpriced.  Hell, you can buy a Win8 touchscreen laptop for cheaper.  I don't know what the heck MS is thinking.  Maybe they are hoping it will be picked up in the business world.

You can get a MacBook Air cheaper.

/its like Microsoft is trying to fail at this business

It's not like it's hard to look this shiat up.

Apple's 11 inch MacBook Air - Link
Price - $999
Storage - 64 gig
Processor - 1.7Ghz Core i5
RAM - 4GB 1600MHz
Display - 1366 x 768
Weight - 2.38 lbs

Microsoft's Surface Pro - Link
Price - $899
Storage - 64 gig
Processor- Core i5 (speed unknown)
RAM - 4 GB
Display - 1920 x 1080 Touchscreen w/ stylus input
Weight 2 lbs

So with the Surface Pro, you get the same processing specs, a much higher res screen, a dual input touch screen and less weight for $100 less? Yep, that's a total fail.

Don't forget though...touch keyboard $100
4 hour battery life vs 8
Laptop you can use on any height desk...vs one that you can't even use on an airline seat tray

/justsayin


Plus like the article says the '64GB Hard Drive' isn't really anywhere close to 64GB. I have no clue, however how the MacBook compares in this area.

/don't like Macs one bit
//haven't run Windows in ~4 yrs, aside from a VB for After Effects
 
2013-01-28 02:03:21 PM

SanjiSasuke: Plus like the article says the '64GB Hard Drive' isn't really anywhere close to 64GB. I have no clue, however how the MacBook compares in this area.


The article doesn't say "64GB Hard Drive" anywhere because neither the Surface Pro nor MacBook Air have them. That said, the storage IS what's expected, they tell you the device capacity, not what's left after the OS is installed... you know, like every computer ever manufactured does too?
 
2013-01-28 02:06:41 PM

moel: Don't forget though...touch keyboard $100
4 hour battery life vs 8
Laptop you can use on any height desk...vs one that you can't even use on an airline seat tray

/justsayin


Ok, let's add a touch keyboard - the price is now the *same* as the cheapest MacBook Air, yet it still has a much better screen, touch and stylus input, weighs some 16% less and far more software available for it.

Also, on what planet does the 11 inch MacBook Air get 8 hours of battery life? Even Apple's own spec page says "up to 5 hours". The Surface RT gets 10 hours, and so far Microsoft says the Surface Pro gets half the RT's life. So that means the Surface Pro has the same amount of battery life to a MacBook Air, yet weighs quite a bit less.

And at least with my Surface RT, it works just fine on an airline tray. Why wouldn't it? It has a kickstand. The Pro version has one too.
media.bestofmicro.com

Call me when Apple has a dual input tablet running a full version of OSX vs. a locked down mobile OS. Apple fanboys should get some new talking points, instead of relying on incorrect information to back up their "facts."
 
2013-01-28 02:08:15 PM

Marine1: Is this the one where everyone talks about how crappy a product they've never used is?


pretty much. a few threads down, the 120gb ipad is "cool". so eh, yeah , Fark tech is turning into 4chan-like credibility as of late.

The Angry Hand of God: It could have a 500GB hard drive, and I don't think anyone would care. The Surface is a mediocre idea aimed to fix a problem that didn't exist in the first place. Even if the price was slashed 50%, I don't see anyone really buying it.


You mean an active touch display that could potentially run photoshop and other programs unlike an iOS or Android device? nawww, nobody would want that.
 
2013-01-28 02:08:34 PM

ProfessorOhki: The article doesn't say "64GB Hard Drive" anywhere because neither the Surface Pro nor MacBook Air have them.


Both the Surface Pro and MacBook Air have 64 gig drives in their base configs . . .
 
2013-01-28 02:08:36 PM

MrSteve007: Ok, let's add a touch keyboard - the price is now the *same* as the cheapest MacBook Air, yet it still has a much better screen, touch and stylus input, weighs some 16% less and far more software available for it.


Air should be able to run OS X/Windows/Linux just fine assuming it's like the other MBs.
 
2013-01-28 02:11:09 PM

MrSteve007: moel: Don't forget though...touch keyboard $100
4 hour battery life vs 8
Laptop you can use on any height desk...vs one that you can't even use on an airline seat tray

/justsayin

Ok, let's add a touch keyboard - the price is now the *same* as the cheapest MacBook Air, yet it still has a much better screen, touch and stylus input, weighs some 16% less and far more software available for it.

Also, on what planet does the 11 inch MacBook Air get 8 hours of battery life? Even Apple's own spec page says "up to 5 hours". The Surface RT gets 10 hours, and so far Microsoft says the Surface Pro gets half the RT's life. So that means the Surface Pro has the same amount of battery life to a MacBook Air, yet weighs quite a bit less.

And at least with my Surface RT, it works just fine on an airline tray. Why wouldn't it? It has a kickstand. The Pro version has one too.
[media.bestofmicro.com image 450x201]

Call me when Apple has a dual input tablet running a full version of OSX vs. a locked down mobile OS. Apple fanboys should get some new talking points, instead of relying on incorrect information to back up their "facts."


On planet redmid17 it does. I was given a MAcBook Air to play around with whilst my Thinkpad was getting fixed. The worst battery life I got on a circa late 2011 Air was 6 hours, and half of that was spent actively running GoToMeeting (blech). I've hit 8 just doing day-to-day office work and browsing. The laptop hit automatic hibernate mode by then, but it lasted the entire time I was in the office.
 
2013-01-28 02:12:23 PM

MrSteve007: ProfessorOhki: The article doesn't say "64GB Hard Drive" anywhere because neither the Surface Pro nor MacBook Air have them.

Both the Surface Pro and MacBook Air have 64 gig drives in their base configs . . .


You didn't say "drive" you said "hard drive." Both have SSDs.

/pedantic man, awaaaaaaaaay
//Prior to 2010, there were MBAs with HDD though
 
2013-01-28 02:12:44 PM

farkeruk: Why not do it with Android?


As in, RDP in to the point of sale system? I suggested that. The software vendor does not want to support that usage scenario and since I'm nor willing to become the ultimate expert on somebody's goofy-ass POS to say what should and should not be acceptable, I just nod and do what people tell me.

I wouldn't mind finding POS systems that were Android native, but there seem to be a shiat ton that are just some kind of customized Microsoft Dynamics setup, and this is one of them.

/My other favorite customer system requires a daily dismount, backup, restore and remount of an MSSQL database every single day before it will work properly.
//For a hilarious good time, try teaching THAT to a room full of dental hygienists.
 
2013-01-28 02:15:40 PM

ProfessorOhki: Egoy3k: You guys are both lame. I have an even older tablet and it works just fine.

[www.compromise-agreements.org image 285x389]
hotlinked

Oh please, that's just a toy; you can't do any serious computing on one of those. Get yourself a real tablet:
[www.nordisco.com image 560x560]

/hot


I love those things. I'm an engineer who hardly ever does any design any more so I had a lot of those pads laying around. They all got used for designing minecraft structures and wiring.

The reality is though that more real engineering gets done on bar napkins than it does on expensive PCS with modern design software. We'd spend hours staring at a screen trying to figure out a problem only to give up and go for a brew. Sure enough the next day I'd pull a napkin out of my coat pocket and have the solution I needed. Sure the details get worked out on the computer but the basic ideas always seem to come when you aren't at the computer. Well that's my experience anyway.
 
2013-01-28 02:23:55 PM

redmid17: On planet redmid17 it does. I was given a MAcBook Air to play around with whilst my Thinkpad was getting fixed. The worst battery life I got on a circa late 2011 Air was 6 hours, and half of that was spent actively running GoToMeeting (blech). I've hit 8 just doing day-to-day office work and browsing. The laptop hit automatic hibernate mode by then, but it lasted the entire time I was in the office.


11 inch air, or 13? The 50% chubbier 13" Air does get 7+ hour battery life. The smaller 11" does not.

"The 11-inch MacBook Air's 35WH battery is the component that takes up most of the space internally, yet the capacity is equivalent to a 4-cell. That's not much, but Apple made the most of it. According to the company, the 11-inch MacBook Air will get you about 5 hours of Web surfing time. We tested it running down a MP4 video file in Mac OS 10.6.4, a more aggressive way of running down the battery than Web surfing. The 11-inch MacBook Air finished in 3 hours, 44 minutes."
 
2013-01-28 02:24:48 PM

Egoy3k: ProfessorOhki: Egoy3k: You guys are both lame. I have an even older tablet and it works just fine.

[www.compromise-agreements.org image 285x389]
hotlinked

Oh please, that's just a toy; you can't do any serious computing on one of those. Get yourself a real tablet:
[www.nordisco.com image 560x560]

/hot

I love those things. I'm an engineer who hardly ever does any design any more so I had a lot of those pads laying around. They all got used for designing minecraft structures and wiring.

The reality is though that more real engineering gets done on bar napkins than it does on expensive PCS with modern design software. We'd spend hours staring at a screen trying to figure out a problem only to give up and go for a brew. Sure enough the next day I'd pull a napkin out of my coat pocket and have the solution I needed. Sure the details get worked out on the computer but the basic ideas always seem to come when you aren't at the computer. Well that's my experience anyway.


images1.vat19.com

:)
 
2013-01-28 02:28:44 PM

ProfessorOhki: you know, like every computer ever manufactured does too?


When I buy a laptop or a desktop the hard drive is so big that what's eaten up by the OS doesn't matter. On a 64GB tablet? Eating up over 40GB is a lot of space to be eating up and taking away from the user.
 
2013-01-28 02:33:36 PM

ProfessorOhki: Air should be able to run OS X/Windows/Linux just fine assuming it's like the other MBs.


Ruins the damn battery life, though.  Apple is very good at managing the power on their devices.
 
2013-01-28 02:33:36 PM
This is half as disturbing as a Subway sammich missing 4 inches. By 4 inches, I mean one half to one inch, but If say it's four, it's four.
 
2013-01-28 02:35:56 PM

sno man: 45G of OS and bloatware?!?  nice.


No knuckle head. Most of the bloat is now downloaded as needed. What takes a good chunk is the system image (refresh feature so you don't need a PC to fix it), page file, etc. they probably also leave free x amount of space free to cache updates and use the refresh feature that keeps files.

Also who cares. It still has more storage for the buck and unlike the iPad you can extend the storage using cloud drives, symbolic links, or yes even a USB drive (which now you can get really, really small).
 
2013-01-28 02:38:46 PM

ProfessorOhki: SanjiSasuke: Plus like the article says the '64GB Hard Drive' isn't really anywhere close to 64GB. I have no clue, however how the MacBook compares in this area.

The article doesn't say "64GB Hard Drive" anywhere because neither the Surface Pro nor MacBook Air have them. That said, the storage IS what's expected, they tell you the device capacity, not what's left after the OS is installed... you know, like every computer ever manufactured does too?


Thats why I said I don't know how the Air stacks up once you account for the OS. I imagine with all the complaining, it has more free practical space.
 
2013-01-28 02:45:16 PM

MrSteve007: It's not like it's hard to look this shiat up.

Apple's 11 inch MacBook Air - Link
Price - $999
Storage - 64 gig
Processor - 1.7Ghz Core i5
RAM - 4GB 1600MHz
Display - 1366 x 768
Weight - 2.38 lbs

Microsoft's Surface Pro - Link
Price - $899
Storage - 64 gig
Processor- Core i5 (speed unknown)
RAM - 4 GB
Display - 1920 x 1080 Touchscreen w/ stylus input
Weight 2 lbs

So with the Surface Pro, you get the same processing specs, a much higher res screen, a dual input touch screen and less weight for $100 less? Yep, that's a total fail.


I bought an Asus Zenbook Prime in October for $899.
Screen size: 13.3"
Storage - 128GB (100GB after formatting/recovery partition, about 80 usable before I nuked bloatware)
1.7GHz Core i5
RAM - 4GB
Display - 1920x1080
Weight - 2.8lbs

It's essentially almost identical to an MBA in shape and construction, and the current model has a touchscreen (but retails for a bit more than I paid). That's probably a fairer comparison to the Surface - the Apple Tax tilts things in MS's favour a little otherwise.

/bought mine with Win7 and no touchscreen
//laughed because they were giving me a DISCOUNT to not get things I didn't want
 
2013-01-28 02:58:00 PM

SanjiSasuke: Thats why I said I don't know how the Air stacks up once you account for the OS. I imagine with all the complaining, it has more free practical space.


You'd be right, but that's primarily because Apple, unlike most PCs manufacturers, doesn't store a complete copy of its OS in a recovery partition. On my Asus laptop that sucker's eating about 12 gigs. Macs just have a small partition - a few hundred megs iirc - that contains a utility that connects to the internet and downloads the OS proper - 4GB according to Apple.

There are advantages and disadvantages. Apple's way, anyone on dialup or a mifi with small data plan who needs to restore their Mac can go eat shiat, basically. My 16mbit cable could do it in an hour or so, but my Asus restores in 15 minutes. On the other hand, there's more usable HD space, crucial on a single 128GB drive.

What's also neat about Apples is if you replace the drive on one now, there's actually a tiny utility in firmware that connects to wifi and boots off Apple's servers, just enough that it can download the recovery software and rebuild the computer, no OS discs needed at all. My Asus I had to burn an image of the recovery partition to a couple of DVDs, which will be fun if I ever need to use them because it's an ultrabook with no DVD drive... There are ways around it but it's less convenient than Apple's solution.
 
2013-01-28 02:58:49 PM

Lsherm: ProfessorOhki: Air should be able to run OS X/Windows/Linux just fine assuming it's like the other MBs.

Ruins the damn battery life, though.  Apple is very good at managing the power on their devices.


That and the Ubuntu/Mint/Debian drivers for the Air make using the touchpad feel like my fingers have crisco smeared all over them.
 
2013-01-28 03:00:51 PM

likefunbutnot: /My other favorite customer system requires a daily dismount, backup, restore and remount of an MSSQL database every single day before it will work properly.
//For a hilarious good time, try teaching THAT to a room full of dental hygienists.


As a SQL server developer.... WTF
 
2013-01-28 03:02:49 PM

ProfessorOhki: Egoy3k: You guys are both lame. I have an even older tablet and it works just fine.

[www.compromise-agreements.org image 285x389]
hotlinked

Oh please, that's just a toy; you can't do any serious computing on one of those. Get yourself a real tablet:
[www.nordisco.com image 560x560]

/hot


n00b.

geardiary.com

Mine even has rounded corners.
 
2013-01-28 03:13:12 PM

somedude210: to be fair, it is one of the first to have a usb connection. let alone USB 3.0


That's true... I don't have a USB connection on my goldfish. I don't have a USB connection on my kitchen table. I don't have a USB connection on my toaster. A Surface would be one of the first things in my house to have a USB connection.

To be fair, it wouldn't be on of the first TABLETS to have a USB connection. But it would still be one of the first "things".
 
2013-01-28 03:13:26 PM
Of course the OS is going to take a large amount of space. It's a Windows 8 tablet. Was that ever in doubt?
 
2013-01-28 03:15:41 PM

Intrepid00: Also who cares. It still has more storage for the buck and unlike the iPad you can extend the storage using cloud drives, symbolic links, or yes even a USB drive (which now you can get really, really small).


Do you even have the slightest idea what a "symbolic link" is?
 
2013-01-28 03:26:03 PM
I feel bad for anyone who buys a Microsoft tablet by accident.

But other than people who get bamboozled by a salesman, anyone who buys one of these things knows what he's getting. I'm not going to worry about it too much.

Microsoft's dismal record with mobile products for the last few years is no secret to anyone who pays any attention to the market. The only question anyone has about the Surface is whether it will be around as long as the Kin, Windows Phone 7, or the Zune. And, apart from the same morbid curiosity that makes all of us stare at car accidents, nobody really cares that much about the answer.
 
2013-01-28 03:35:06 PM

The Larch: I feel bad for anyone who buys a Microsoft tablet by accident.

But other than people who get bamboozled by a salesman, anyone who buys one of these things knows what he's getting. I'm not going to worry about it too much.

Microsoft's dismal record with mobile products for the last few years is no secret to anyone who pays any attention to the market. The only question anyone has about the Surface is whether it will be around as long as the Kin, Windows Phone 7, or the Zune. And, apart from the same morbid curiosity that makes all of us stare at car accidents, nobody really cares that much about the answer.


Of course, the major difference this time is that MS is now doing what MS does best: throw their Windows weight into it. Time will tell if it works for them again, or this is finally what ends up breaking the Windows hegemony.
 
2013-01-28 03:37:57 PM

somedude210: to be fair, it is one of the first to have a usb connection. let alone USB 3.0


My year old Iconia has both USB and microSD available. It ain't the prettiest or fastest tablet out there, but moving files on and off is a breeze and my movie library for trips is a card swap away.

/Mrs. Hilljack likes having a separate thumbdrive for her sensitive work files.
 
2013-01-28 03:38:18 PM
Since when doesn't the OS + whatever else is installed count against the available storage?
 
2013-01-28 03:39:12 PM
Does any other company get shiat for advertising their devices' storage capacity before the OS is taken into account? Why is MS getting dumped on for a practice that everybody else engages in?

I'm actually looking forward to getting one of these. I can visit clients, take notes, and if needed, spin up a development copy of their project in visual studio, then whip out the pen and fire up OneNote to do some whiteboarding and spitballing. And if the mood strikes me I can use Sketchbook to doodle during downtime. The only thing I wish it had is cellular connectivity.
 
2013-01-28 03:55:06 PM

The Larch: I feel bad for anyone who buys a Microsoft tablet by accident.

But other than people who get bamboozled by a salesman, anyone who buys one of these things knows what he's getting. I'm not going to worry about it too much.

Microsoft's dismal record with mobile products for the last few years is no secret to anyone who pays any attention to the market. The only question anyone has about the Surface is whether it will be around as long as the Kin, Windows Phone 7, or the Zune. And, apart from the same morbid curiosity that makes all of us stare at car accidents, nobody really cares that much about the answer.


The Kin sucked.

Other than that... the products you listed were pretty good, even if they weren't commercially successful.
 
2013-01-28 04:10:59 PM

The Larch: somedude210: to be fair, it is one of the first to have a usb connection. let alone USB 3.0

That's true... I don't have a USB connection on my goldfish. I don't have a USB connection on my kitchen table. I don't have a USB connection on my toaster. A Surface would be one of the first things in my house to have a USB connection.

To be fair, it wouldn't be on of the first TABLETS to have a USB connection. But it would still be one of the first "things".


Where did I say "things"? I was referring to tablets, as we were all well aware that this was the discussion at hand. As such, I'm fairly certain there are few, if any, tablets out there that have USB ports, or an SD port along with it. That was the point. I'm sorry I pissed in your Wheaties.

dentalhilljack: My year old Iconia has both USB and microSD available. It ain't the prettiest or fastest tablet out there, but moving files on and off is a breeze and my movie library for trips is a card swap away.

/Mrs. Hilljack likes having a separate thumbdrive for her sensitive work files.


Iconia? Acer makes tablets? Are they any good?

That said, I thought originally the Surface was going to be the first tablet to offer native USB support. I was mistaken and for that I apologize.

/usb 3.0 support then?
//I swear they were the first tablet to do something
//I personally like win8 on a tablet. It's a nice match
 
2013-01-28 04:13:46 PM
lfixtstore.com
 
2013-01-28 04:26:48 PM

xalres: Does any other company get shiat for advertising their devices' storage capacity before the OS is taken into account? Why is MS getting dumped on for a practice that everybody else engages in?


Actually, people do get upset that the 16 GB iPad only has about 14 GB of usable storage.
 
2013-01-28 05:20:23 PM

ZAZ: There is no difference between 80 GB and 100 GB..


I've never been great at math but I'm almost certain there's a difference between 80 and 100 of something.
 
2013-01-28 05:38:22 PM

fatalvenom: doglover: What I don't get is who upgrades so damn often. I have a Xoom. Had it for over a year. It's still workin' fine. I'm not gonna pay a bunch extra for a freakin' new tablet when mine's still up and runnin'.

Exactly. My GF got me my Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 for Christmas. My friend saw me using it and asked what it was so I told him, he then proceeds to tell me I should get rid of it and get the new Note tablet.

I told him to kindly STFU.


Ha! I laugh at that. I'm one of the 30 people who bought the Lenovo Thinkpad tablet from last year and I'm never giving that up, even though Lenovo apparently has.

/Great piece of gear
//Little to no support, though
 
2013-01-28 05:39:33 PM

somedude210: The Larch: somedude210: to be fair, it is one of the first to have a usb connection. let alone USB 3.0

That's true... I don't have a USB connection on my goldfish. I don't have a USB connection on my kitchen table. I don't have a USB connection on my toaster. A Surface would be one of the first things in my house to have a USB connection.

To be fair, it wouldn't be on of the first TABLETS to have a USB connection. But it would still be one of the first "things".

Where did I say "things"? I was referring to tablets, as we were all well aware that this was the discussion at hand. As such, I'm fairly certain there are few, if any, tablets out there that have USB ports, or an SD port along with it. That was the point. I'm sorry I pissed in your Wheaties.


What few, if any, tablets might look like
 
2013-01-28 05:40:53 PM

Marine1: Try looking at the Acer Iconia W510. There are also offerings from Dell and Samsung, IIRC.

I think you'll see the price of Windows 8 tablets begin to fall along with advances in the Intel Atom line of processors. They're pretty good as-is, and when OEMs figure out that not everyone needs an i5 in their tablets, you'll see more offerings with the Atom configuration.



That Acer tablet does look nice, and I especially like the keyboard dock (which I liked on my Asus Transformer TF101), but it's still pretty pricey at over $700. Even the pricey tablet line, the iPads, cost at least $200 less for the baseline models. My wife's Galaxy Tab 2 7" I got for her off of Woot.com for $160, and full size Android tablets are easy to find new for $300 - $400 - which is half the price.

If the Windows 8 (full) tablets were priced around what the iPad is priced at it would probably be a done deal for me and I'd be buying one for sure. A full version of Windows 8 installed would make it a no-brainer for me. Since they're twice that.... not so much. If I was in the market for a small, light laptop though I'd probably be stoked.
 
2013-01-28 05:42:01 PM

Mi-5: fatalvenom: doglover: What I don't get is who upgrades so damn often. I have a Xoom. Had it for over a year. It's still workin' fine. I'm not gonna pay a bunch extra for a freakin' new tablet when mine's still up and runnin'.

Exactly. My GF got me my Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 for Christmas. My friend saw me using it and asked what it was so I told him, he then proceeds to tell me I should get rid of it and get the new Note tablet.

I told him to kindly STFU.

Ha! I laugh at that. I'm one of the 30 people who bought the Lenovo Thinkpad tablet from last year and I'm never giving that up, even though Lenovo apparently has.

/Great piece of gear
//Little to no support, though


I'm still using an HP Touchpad, myself. Not a bad little tablet. WebOS is dead, dead, dead, but it runs CyanogenMod like a champ.
 
2013-01-28 05:44:31 PM

HeartBurnKid: somedude210: The Larch: somedude210: to be fair, it is one of the first to have a usb connection. let alone USB 3.0

That's true... I don't have a USB connection on my goldfish. I don't have a USB connection on my kitchen table. I don't have a USB connection on my toaster. A Surface would be one of the first things in my house to have a USB connection.

To be fair, it wouldn't be on of the first TABLETS to have a USB connection. But it would still be one of the first "things".

Where did I say "things"? I was referring to tablets, as we were all well aware that this was the discussion at hand. As such, I'm fairly certain there are few, if any, tablets out there that have USB ports, or an SD port along with it. That was the point. I'm sorry I pissed in your Wheaties.

What few, if any, tablets might look like



Yeah, my old Asus Transformer pad TF101 was the first Android tablet they put out (IIRC) and it has microsd, mini DVI, a multi-card reader and a couple full sized USB ports - though you did have to connect the tablet to the keyboard dock for the USB ports and card reader.
 
2013-01-28 06:06:52 PM

Marine1: MrSteve007: gingerjet: UberDave: Well, there's also the fact that it is way overpriced.  Hell, you can buy a Win8 touchscreen laptop for cheaper.  I don't know what the heck MS is thinking.  Maybe they are hoping it will be picked up in the business world.

You can get a MacBook Air cheaper.

/its like Microsoft is trying to fail at this business

It's not like it's hard to look this shiat up.

Apple's 11 inch MacBook Air - Link
Price - $999
Storage - 64 gig
Processor - 1.7Ghz Core i5
RAM - 4GB 1600MHz
Display - 1366 x 768
Weight - 2.38 lbs

Microsoft's Surface Pro - Link
Price - $899
Storage - 64 gig
Processor- Core i5 (speed unknown)
RAM - 4 GB
Display - 1920 x 1080 Touchscreen w/ stylus input
Weight 2 lbs

So with the Surface Pro, you get the same processing specs, a much higher res screen, a dual input touch screen and less weight for $100 less? Yep, that's a total fail.

Shhhhhhhhh. We can't like MS products here.


This things is going to fly off the shelf!!!
 
2013-01-28 06:27:53 PM
Who cares, nobody will ever need more than 4Mb of RAM.
 
2013-01-28 06:43:44 PM

whatshisname: Who cares, nobody will ever need more than 4Mb of RAM.


I remember those days
 
2013-01-28 07:00:45 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: whatshisname: Who cares, nobody will ever need more than 4Mb of RAM.

I remember those days


Back when writing elegant code meant something? or Back when you had no choice but to?
 
2013-01-28 07:06:44 PM

Marine1: The laptop isn't a tablet.


this.

regardless of whether you like Google or MS or Apple, stop comparing laptops to tablets. The overwhelming majority of people who buy tablets want a tablet.
 
2013-01-28 07:08:35 PM

MrSteve007: and far more software available for it


1998 called and it wants its talking point back.

/the software that matters is the software you use
//not how much else there is out there
 
2013-01-28 07:11:18 PM

sno man: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: whatshisname: Who cares, nobody will ever need more than 4Mb of RAM.

I remember those days

Back when writing elegant code meant something? or Back when you had no choice but to?


As someone working within 512 bytes of RAM, I'm getting a kick out of this.
 
2013-01-28 07:17:26 PM

december: MrSteve007: and far more software available for it

1998 called and it wants its talking point back.

/the software that matters is the software you use
//not how much else there is out there


There's still plenty of software Mac can't run natively - unless you want to shell out a hundred or two for a second copy of Windows. Because that's such a smart feature . . . paying for two operating systems.

Pretty much 50% of the software on my computer, and 90% of what we use at the office won't run on OSX.

/anxiously awaiting the release of SimCity 5 in March
//goes back to using Autodesk's Revit and rendering in 3Ds Max
 
2013-01-28 07:29:02 PM
I think it is terrible that precious space is WASTED on the already too small SSD on these devices to make a recovery partition. They should include a 16-32GB USB memory stick to provide recovery. What is the point of sticking recovery data on an SSD?!?!?!?
 
2013-01-28 07:37:00 PM
FOOTLONG 128GB of storage space is a registered trademark as a descriptive name for the sub Surface Pro tablet sold in Subway® Restaurants by Microsoft and not intended to be a measurement of length actual storage space.
 
2013-01-28 07:51:28 PM

MrSteve007: december: MrSteve007: and far more software available for it

1998 called and it wants its talking point back.

/the software that matters is the software you use
//not how much else there is out there

There's still plenty of software Mac can't run natively - unless you want to shell out a hundred or two for a second copy of Windows. Because that's such a smart feature . . . paying for two operating systems.

Pretty much 50% of the software on my computer, and 90% of what we use at the office won't run on OSX.



Name some.
 
rpm
2013-01-28 08:06:52 PM

Intrepid00: It still has more storage for the buck and unlike the iPad you can extend the storage using cloud drives, symbolic links


Can't use cloud storage on an iPad like on a surface, huh?

/Don't have an iPad
//Still know that's a dumb statement
///Currently doing ARM assembly on Android. wheeeee
 
2013-01-28 08:13:13 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Haha. Your monolithic kernel was a terrible idea for a device that's primarily a tablet.

I'm just going to assume that it's actually 22.5 gigs and the other half is actually a factory restore partition of that same bundle of useless drivers and bloatware....


It has to be. My SSD with windows7 only uses 37 out of 64 gb. But I also have stuff like office and photo editing software on that drive.

/Planning a wipe soon to get rid of old crap
//Really like keeping my desktop, documents etc on a different drive
/Never lose stuff during a reinstall
 
2013-01-28 08:13:29 PM

moel: Oh and one more thing, that display sounds great..but windows desktop @1080p in 11 inches of space.....yeah...good luck using windows desktop with that....


720p works perfectly in an 11" if you need to do some work on the go. Really digging touch in that format of notebook. Thumbs are already on the screen and it beats having to use a touchpad. Hate those things.

1080p would be cool for movies.

/hates running non-native resolutions
//sniff, crt
 
2013-01-28 08:26:12 PM
usa.asus.com
+
benchmarks-reviews.com
= not too many complaints on the road.
 
2013-01-28 08:40:49 PM

ProfessorOhki: Egoy3k: ProfessorOhki: Egoy3k: You guys are both lame. I have an even older tablet and it works just fine.

[www.compromise-agreements.org image 285x389]
hotlinked

Oh please, that's just a toy; you can't do any serious computing on one of those. Get yourself a real tablet:
[www.nordisco.com image 560x560]

/hot

I love those things. I'm an engineer who hardly ever does any design any more so I had a lot of those pads laying around. They all got used for designing minecraft structures and wiring.

The reality is though that more real engineering gets done on bar napkins than it does on expensive PCS with modern design software. We'd spend hours staring at a screen trying to figure out a problem only to give up and go for a brew. Sure enough the next day I'd pull a napkin out of my coat pocket and have the solution I needed. Sure the details get worked out on the computer but the basic ideas always seem to come when you aren't at the computer. Well that's my experience anyway.

[images1.vat19.com image 475x316]

:)


That's funny. Just had a conversation about adding a shower to the office for that reason today.

Til that happens, I'll stick with my Hillbilly Palm Pilot:
dissociatedpress.com
 
2013-01-28 08:41:25 PM

DerAppie: //Really like keeping my desktop, documents etc on a different drive
/Never lose stuff during a reinstall


I work for a fairly large company, and each of our 6,000 managed PCs have a separate partition to hold personal files.  Our desktop team can re-image a workstation and have someone back up and running in under 30 minutes.  They got so good at it the governance board relaxed the rules for local admin access since if someone farks up their machine, we can just redo the whole thing without any fuss.

You still get put in the penalty box if you infect your machine, though.  We apparently have some die-hard idiots on staff - they show up in the monthly reports time and time again with compromised boxes, and every time they get compromised, they have to go to a 2 hour remedial "don't fark up your machine" class.
 
2013-01-28 09:36:49 PM

mongbiohazard: Marine1: Try looking at the Acer Iconia W510. There are also offerings from Dell and Samsung, IIRC.

I think you'll see the price of Windows 8 tablets begin to fall along with advances in the Intel Atom line of processors. They're pretty good as-is, and when OEMs figure out that not everyone needs an i5 in their tablets, you'll see more offerings with the Atom configuration.


That Acer tablet does look nice, and I especially like the keyboard dock (which I liked on my Asus Transformer TF101), but it's still pretty pricey at over $700. Even the pricey tablet line, the iPads, cost at least $200 less for the baseline models. My wife's Galaxy Tab 2 7" I got for her off of Woot.com for $160, and full size Android tablets are easy to find new for $300 - $400 - which is half the price.

If the Windows 8 (full) tablets were priced around what the iPad is priced at it would probably be a done deal for me and I'd be buying one for sure. A full version of Windows 8 installed would make it a no-brainer for me. Since they're twice that.... not so much. If I was in the market for a small, light laptop though I'd probably be stoked.


FWIW, the keyboard is optional. Even without it (the touchpad for the cursor farkin' sucks btw), battery life is excellent and performance can run most stuff in a reasonable fashion. Without it, it's $499, which is pretty reasonable.

If Acer had bothered to A) market the thing and B) do a better job with the touchpad... they would have, hands-down, the best tablet for the money on the market today.
 
2013-01-28 10:43:31 PM

Marine1: If Acer had bothered to A) market the thing and B) do a better job with the touchpad... they would have, hands-down, the best tablet for the money on the market today.


Acer has never had and never will be responsible any product that is better than the filth that lives on dog excrement.

That said, there are some excellent Android tablets out there. One of the really great things is that tier-1 OEMs actually did do a really good job of differentiating the products. My Galaxy 8.9" has the same screen resolution as a normal 10" tablet but only weighs about half as much. My Xoom has 128GB of internal storage thanks to its microSD slot. My Thrive has a removable battery and a standard USB port. My Nexus 10 has a completely ridiculous high resolution screen. All those things are awesome if they're the make or break deal for you and at least in the world of Android stuff, you get a choice. Maybe that will happen with Windows Surface and maybe it won't. As it stands right now, I don't really care all that much, but I am excited to see new possibilities for this kind of computing.
 
2013-01-29 08:43:42 AM

somedude210: dentalhilljack: My year old Iconia has both USB and microSD available. It ain't the prettiest or fastest tablet out there, but moving files on and off is a breeze and my movie library for trips is a card swap away.

/Mrs. Hilljack likes having a separate thumbdrive for her sensitive work files.

Iconia? Acer makes tablets? Are they any good?

That said, I thought originally the Surface was going to be the first tablet to offer native USB support. I was mistaken and for that I apologize.


It's solid if unspectacular. My relatives got them for us because they were on sale (not the most technologically astute basis...should have given them better guidance but live & learn). They run Ice Cream Sandwich..hers is a model higher and is supposed to get Jelly Bean. They do what we need - emails, browsing, videos, music, basic office editing, games, etc. Not a high def display on them but I'm not looking for a portable screen to match like my TV. The chips get a little laggy but they recover pretty quickly. It's definitely not an Ipad or a Galaxy, but I don't need it to be. It's a secondary device for me, and for that it fits the bill.
 
2013-01-29 09:05:17 AM

Chevello: Til that happens, I'll stick with my Hillbilly Palm Pilot:


dissociatedpress.com

You found a left hand model?
 
2013-01-29 01:49:15 PM

doczoidberg: I really hope this Surface tablet is a total failure.

Succeeding will only encourage Microsoft to force more of that Metro BS on us with Windows.

People, please! Don't buy the Surface!


I'm running Windows 8 at work and metro isn't as annoying as people first think it is. Delete all of the tiles except for things you use every week (which is about 10 apps for most people) and it's actually pretty convenient.
 
2013-01-29 02:28:21 PM

jonny_q: shill speak./i>

You are VERY bad at your job and should be fired.

Tablets running desktop OS's have existed since the days of Windows 3.1.

Seriously, you need to be fired like now. You suck.

 
2013-01-29 07:38:08 PM
I'm failing to find too much wrong with it. It has a recovery partition that can be deleted, and you can probably remove anything you don't want. If the base install can get down to 10gb or so, that'd probably leave 100gb give or take after formatting. I'm rooting for Microsoft on this one--- I'm an apple guy personally, but I'd love to get a surface pro. Makes me wonder if the 64gb lte iPad mini was a bad decision... Next round of upgrades for me will hopefully have some good choices. ;-)
 
2013-01-30 07:57:11 AM
I'm thinking of buying someone else's used Surface and running Linux on it.
 
2013-01-30 09:24:52 AM

psy5ive: stuff


If you wanted a full fat tablet... Why'd you buy a slate? They've been around since the GRiDPAD by GRiD Computing (later known as Palm) in 1989 or so. They're of equal capabilities, battery life and indeed weight to the Surface Pro.

Which honestly isn't that good a tablet. Kinda like the Surface doesn't seem that good a slate.
 
2013-01-30 05:34:59 PM

Vaneshi: You are VERY bad at your job and should be fired.

Tablets running desktop OS's have existed since the days of Windows 3.1.

Seriously, you need to be fired like now. You suck.


1. You suck at quoting.
2. I said that it would probably suck and not live up to expectations... what part of that makes me a shill
3. I'm aware that tablets have been running desktop OSs for a long time. But not tablets that are both finger-friendly (capacitive touch screen) and stylus friendly (whatever the fark these newfangled things use) Old tablets use resistive screens that work fairly well with styluses but suck balls when you use your finger. Capacitive touch screens are a godsend, but combining them with a stylus friendly input in a tablet is a new development. As far as I know, this is the first tablet that has all that. I'm aware that there are a few Android phones out there with the same tech, but that's not a full desktop general purpose OS.
 
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