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(Reuters)   Islamic radicals torch a library in Africa containing historic manuscripts, this is not a repeat from 642   (reuters.com) divider line 34
    More: Dumbass, Islamism, South Africans, Bamako, collections  
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5250 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jan 2013 at 9:47 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-01-28 09:42:10 AM  
8 votes:

doglover: Not like good Catholics would ever do this. Especially not in the Americas.


Dude, I know we all have to be politically correct and everything but don't try to equate the two, you end up looking like an asshole.
2013-01-28 09:52:41 AM  
6 votes:

Diogenes: FlashHarry: farking religion poisons torches everything it touches.


I might point out that the gatherers and caretakers of these documents over the last 500 years or so are Muslims, and that the torchers also destroyed over 300 Sufi Muslim shrines in Timbuktu.  Extremists are extreme.
2013-01-28 10:52:53 AM  
5 votes:
I have a notion:

Get all the historic manuscripts and crap OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST. They have proven time and time again that they cannot have nice things.
2013-01-28 09:40:22 AM  
4 votes:

doglover: Not like good Catholics would ever do this. Especially not in the Americas.


Well that didn't take long.
2013-01-28 11:11:14 AM  
3 votes:

Joe Blowme: well, since everyone has done it sometime in the past it it must be ok for the death cult to keep doing it in the present? Wow, i expected more from you.


Less an "everyone's doing it" and more a "stop the dick-measuring about who's a better steward of culture; everyone's done it".

I think we can all agree that destroying cultural artifacts is bad.
2013-01-28 11:00:21 AM  
3 votes:

amoral: liam76: doglover: Not like good Catholics would ever do this. Especially not in the Americas.

Any particular reason you feel the need to bring up Catholics on a story about muslims torching a Library?

Any reason you feel the need to bring up islam in a story about extremists torching a library?


hhmmm because the extremists self identify as warriors of Islam and are motivated by that religion.
2013-01-28 10:36:50 AM  
3 votes:

mrlewish: atomicmask: Islam is a wonderful religion and I hope it spreads all over the world so we can all get a sample of this peaceful, enlightened, and prosperous culture that has lead the middle east to a thousand years of peace and a liberal utopia of human rights and education.

I don't think your ironic sarcasm worked. Your statement implies opposites so when you say "liberal" you are actually implying "conservative" which I don't think was your intent. Of course you can not use the word conservative in your statement since by its very nature Islamic fundamentalism like all fundamentalist is conservative and of course implying the opposite of that would not work.

I really think you need to refine your troll statement a bit more or maybe to back to some gun/abortion thread where you may feel more comfortable.


Actually it was my intent, it is ultra conservatism in its full glory. The jab at liberals, is that the irresponsible twats (like yourself) think our culture should be an open door because brown people are incapable of doing any harm, when in truth islam is a plague we should ban and halt the spread of for the good of all humanity.
2013-01-28 10:01:15 AM  
3 votes:

doglover: Not like good Catholics would ever do this. Especially not in the Americas.


Any particular reason you feel the need to bring up Catholics on a story about muslims torching a Library?
2013-01-28 09:04:02 AM  
3 votes:
farking religion poisons everything it touches.
2013-01-28 12:07:45 PM  
2 votes:
Book-burners are not in my good graces generally, but the books destroyed by these hooligans were manuscripts, not copies, and thus archival material. I hope the center digitized or photographed the manuscripts against such a contingency so the contents are not permanently lost.

Timbuktu was a wealthy and powerful city for a short time under a great king and they collected and produced many manuscripts which have been preserved for centuries by families who treat them as treasures and heirlooms and whose prestige and pride are tied up in their libraries.

It's barbaric to destroy such books, even if you regard them as heathen and erroneous, but to destroy the cultural treasures of your own religion is clearly impious. It would be like Christians burning the Library of the Vatican with its massive collection of religious and ethnographic material collected by missionaries as reference works for the Church's mission of evangelization.

Civilization dies at the hands of fanatics and bigots. Iconoclasm and book-burning is wrong whether turned against "heathens" and "unbelievers" or "heretics" and "liberals".

I hesitate to throw away a bad book, let alone destroy a good one, and that is knowing that there is a massive over-supply of printed copies. I have copies of the Bible, the Koran, Mein Kampf, Das Kapital and many other controversial books despite deploring their contents or interpretations of their contents by assorted fanatics, loonies, and even mere liberals or conservatives.

I hope the French manage to get control of Timbuktu before the damage to Civilization is even greater. Many of those manuscripts may not have been published and may exist in only one copy, to be lost forever if that one copy disappears.

Knowledge is the less for it whenever a book is lost. Even stupid books have much to tell us about the minds of stupid people, which otherwise might be incomprehensible to us when we are not similarly stupid.
2013-01-28 11:19:19 AM  
2 votes:
ethics-gradient: Take a big pinch of ignorance, a bucket load of arrogance and stir togther with lashings of bigotry, leave to fester for centuries and voila you have fundamentalism!
Garnish with ugly beards and serve.

Sticky Hands: Ugly NECK beards.

Oh yeah I suspect a lot of these fundis are just the annoying teen boys and young men who got no respect because they were badly socialised ignorant dicks then they join the mujahadeen and grow a "beard" and who's laughing now?
2013-01-28 10:10:58 AM  
2 votes:

liam76: doglover: Not like good Catholics would ever do this. Especially not in the Americas.

Any particular reason you feel the need to bring up Catholics on a story about muslims torching a Library?


It's a particularly strange for of PC that some people seem to have. It is only ok to criticize western institution. So if someone criticizes something else, they seek to find a way to equate something, anything, to be the same and steer discussion back to that. For example if religious intolerance goes on, they'll point out the crusades as though that makes all other intolerance from that point forward ok and forgiven.

It is also probably partially arrogance/narcissism. They need all discussions to be about their culture, not other cultures, and so will try to steer is back.

It's quite stupid, and also quite prevalent online these days.
2013-01-28 02:07:14 PM  
1 votes:
letting third world countries hold on to priceless antiquities is like giving your two year old and a pit bull unsupervised play time with an iPad.
2013-01-28 01:40:03 PM  
1 votes:

I drunk what: religion of peace

DEATH TO ALL CHRISTIANS!


HELL TO ALL NON-CHRISTIANS

you WILL pray for the sweet release of death that will

NEVER EVER COME for all of eternity

AMEN
2013-01-28 01:22:32 PM  
1 votes:
halB: None of them aside from the Aztecs had a written language. And the Aztec's use of that writing was always limited.

Bullshiat. Writing was invented several times in the New World. The Olmec had a written language around 1200 BCE. That is about the same time as the oldest known writing from China, and roughly contemporary with the Mediterranean's Bronze Age Collapse. Link

The Inca developed 3-D "writing" using knotted cords. The Inquisition ordered those records utterly destroyed. Easter Island's Rongorongo language is almost certainly one of the rare writing systems invented in total isolation. All knowledge or its decipherment was wiped out as recently as the mid-1800s.
2013-01-28 12:21:47 PM  
1 votes:

brantgoose: Book-burners are not in my good graces generally, but the books destroyed by these hooligans were manuscripts, not copies, and thus archival material. I hope the center digitized or photographed the manuscripts against such a contingency so the contents are not permanently lost.

Timbuktu was a wealthy and powerful city for a short time under a great king and they collected and produced many manuscripts which have been preserved for centuries by families who treat them as treasures and heirlooms and whose prestige and pride are tied up in their libraries.

It's barbaric to destroy such books, even if you regard them as heathen and erroneous, but to destroy the cultural treasures of your own religion is clearly impious. It would be like Christians burning the Library of the Vatican with its massive collection of religious and ethnographic material collected by missionaries as reference works for the Church's mission of evangelization.

Civilization dies at the hands of fanatics and bigots. Iconoclasm and book-burning is wrong whether turned against "heathens" and "unbelievers" or "heretics" and "liberals".

I hesitate to throw away a bad book, let alone destroy a good one, and that is knowing that there is a massive over-supply of printed copies. I have copies of the Bible, the Koran, Mein Kampf, Das Kapital and many other controversial books despite deploring their contents or interpretations of their contents by assorted fanatics, loonies, and even mere liberals or conservatives.

I hope the French manage to get control of Timbuktu before the damage to Civilization is even greater. Many of those manuscripts may not have been published and may exist in only one copy, to be lost forever if that one copy disappears.

Knowledge is the less for it whenever a book is lost. Even stupid books have much to tell us about the minds of stupid people, which otherwise might be incomprehensible to us when we are not similarly stupid.


Only a few had been digitized, it's only in the last few years with that new library complete (in 2009 I think, either way one of the two destroyed) that they'd been able to.  That and a widespread reluctance by the keepers of these documents to subject them to the process.
2013-01-28 11:41:30 AM  
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: Dr Dreidel: Joe Blowme: well, since everyone has done it sometime in the past it it must be ok for the death cult to keep doing it in the present? Wow, i expected more from you.

Less an "everyone's doing it" and more a "stop the dick-measuring about who's a better steward of culture; everyone's done it".

I think we can all agree that destroying cultural artifacts is bad.

Yes, and we can agree those who continue to do it should be ridiculed, named, and shamed for the retarded savages they are


So ordered - on this 28th day of Janustime, in the year of Our Lord Jesus Twenty and Thirteen - that the world may know of our strength.

// not needling you, I just wanted to be fancy-like
// a round of steaks and blowjobs* for the bar!
* um, to be provided by someone else!
2013-01-28 11:23:54 AM  
1 votes:

Dr Dreidel: Joe Blowme: well, since everyone has done it sometime in the past it it must be ok for the death cult to keep doing it in the present? Wow, i expected more from you.

Less an "everyone's doing it" and more a "stop the dick-measuring about who's a better steward of culture; everyone's done it".

I think we can all agree that destroying cultural artifacts is bad.


Yes, and we can agree those who continue to do it should be ridiculed, named, and shamed for the retarded savages they are
2013-01-28 11:19:10 AM  
1 votes:
"The Caliph said,
'either these scrolls
Repeat the Scrolls of the Koran,
In which case they are unnecessary,
Or they contradict the holy Book.
Either way we are right to burn them."
2013-01-28 11:16:21 AM  
1 votes:

halB: doglover: Not like good Catholics would ever do this. Especially not in the Americas.

What the hell are you talking about? None of them aside from the Aztecs had a written language. And the Aztec's use of that writing was always limited.


The Mayans would like a word with you...
2013-01-28 11:04:43 AM  
1 votes:

ajt167: liam76: doglover: Not like good Catholics would ever do this. Especially not in the Americas.

Any particular reason you feel the need to bring up Catholics on a story about muslims torching a Library?

Nowadays, organized groups of extremist Catholics might protest an abortion clinic. Not saying the Church leaders don't do lousy things, but you have to really stretch to compare like doglover did.


Here's the thing...religious belief demands faith, which is the antithesis of reason. When your decisions are based on the irrationality of faith instead of the rationality of reason, and you add just a bit of righteous belief in your actions, anything is possible.

Now, most religious adherents just go about their day, doing their thing, not giving it a second thought. But there are those few who feel compelled to act. And those are the ones who are most dangerous.
2013-01-28 11:04:29 AM  
1 votes:

brantgoose: kid_icarus: I wonder what people in Timbuktu reference when they want to describe something as being incredibly remote and distant?

I haven't got an answer on that question yet, but I have read that in Finland, people say "from here to Halifax". I expect this originally refered to Halifax, England, but the story I heard was that it refered to Halifax, Nova Scotia, which is definitely far away from Finland.


In Flanders we use 'from here to Tokyo' as a metaphor for something that is very long (e.g. a queue or a traffic jam). I've also heard it used to qualify a gargantuan mental boner.

brantgoose: This can be seen in the name of VD, which is "the French disease" in England, the "Italian disease" in France, the "Spanish disease" (IIRC) in Italy, and so forth, all the way across Europe.


The same can be said about contraception. The English called it a French rubber, while the French called it «une capote anglaise».
2013-01-28 11:00:56 AM  
1 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org
What a library destroyed by extremists may look like

/Sarajevo 1992
//the Serbs destroyed an extensive collection of Ottoman manuscripts and other rare books
2013-01-28 10:53:23 AM  
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: I hope they kept some of the good knowlege then they can pass it on as their own later... oh, this is not a repeat... then they will probably just destroy it all.


Yeah, TFA is reporting on the noble Arab Spring now burning the copies that were made in case the originals were destroyed (which they were last year).

/but I'm sure the threats the Muslim Brotherhood made to level The Valley of Kings were just Zionist propaganda
//no Muslim would ever be so disrespectful of their adopted country's history
///pay no attention to what they've done to the sites in Karnak, there is nothing to see any more, move along
2013-01-28 10:41:50 AM  
1 votes:

kid_icarus: I wonder what people in Timbuktu reference when they want to describe something as being incredibly remote and distant?


I haven't got an answer on that question yet, but I have read that in Finland, people say "from here to Halifax". I expect this originally refered to Halifax, England, but the story I heard was that it refered to Halifax, Nova Scotia, which is definitely far away from Finland.

However, this may be an English language expression as well, as I ran across "from here to Halifax" and "from Hell to Halifax" in a glossary of English words and expressions from the 1940s. No doubt this expression was used during World War II when Halifax, Nova Scotia was a major military staging area for North Atlantic patrols and other wartime activity..

Hell to Halifax: a variation of the phrase "from here to Halifax," meaning everywhere, in all places no matter how far from here. "Halifax" is a county in eastern Canada, on the Atlantic Ocean.
http://www.goldenagestories.com/glossary/orders-is-orders-glossary"> http://www.goldenagestories.com/glossary/orders-is-orders-glossary

Given the layout of North Africa, I would expect the people of Timbuktu to regard Cairo, Egypt as a very distant place, although Mecca is even further and a very strong candidate. The point of these expressions is that they name the most distant place that the user can think of, some place not merely exotic but at the limits of geographical knowledge. The user may be aware of more distant places but the place named is at the limits of the "world" in which they live.

Timbuktu was a fabled city of wealth, power and extreme hostility to the Christian world. It traded in valuable luxury goods across the Sahara and thus its trade goods were known in Europe, but there was little chance of anybody going there (although a number of foreigners have, by ostensibly adopting the Muslim religion and by disguising themselves heavily, managed to visit the city and live to tell the tale).

I wouldn't be surprised if China has been used as such a extreme limit, or India. Canada is at the limits of the world for Australians and New Zealanders, and some Americans. I seem to recall "Canaday" being used as the type of a very distant, foreign and hostile place. I am told that Southerners have used "Canadian" as a euphemism or synonym for "gay" because Canadians are non-Southerners and an invisible minority, so to speak, the way gays are. This is typical. Like VD, easy women, and the place where meat pies grow on trees, the next country over is often regarded as gay or the source of the "gay disease".

This can be seen in the name of VD, which is "the French disease" in England, the "Italian disease" in France, the "Spanish disease" (IIRC) in Italy, and so forth, all the way across Europe.

We may regard Greeks as the inventors of anal sodomy, but the Greeks blame the Turks, and the Bulgarians gave sodomites their name (bugger, from Bulgar) as the Bohemians gave their name to wandering social outsiders.

Mental geography is often quite different from real geography. Medieval Russians regarded Roman Catholic Europe as part of the East because it was full of heretics and a threat to the Fatherland. They weren't too clear on the distinction between liberals, Roman Catholics and Jews, not unlike some Southerners.
2013-01-28 10:38:31 AM  
1 votes:
Filthy animals.
2013-01-28 10:30:46 AM  
1 votes:

halB: doglover: Not like good Catholics would ever do this. Especially not in the Americas.

What the hell are you talking about? None of them aside from the Aztecs had a written language. And the Aztec's use of that writing was always limited.


Disagrees:  http://www.omniglot.com/writing/mayan.htm
2013-01-28 10:29:30 AM  
1 votes:

halB: doglover: Not like good Catholics would ever do this. Especially not in the Americas.

What the hell are you talking about? None of them aside from the Aztecs had a written language. And the Aztec's use of that writing was always limited.


I would send you some knotted rope, but most if them were burned.
2013-01-28 10:15:18 AM  
1 votes:

liam76: doglover: Not like good Catholics would ever do this. Especially not in the Americas.

Any particular reason you feel the need to bring up Catholics on a story about muslims torching a Library?


Nowadays, organized groups of extremist Catholics might protest an abortion clinic. Not saying the Church leaders don't do lousy things, but you have to really stretch to compare like doglover did.
2013-01-28 09:56:23 AM  
1 votes:
Islam is a wonderful religion and I hope it spreads all over the world so we can all get a sample of this peaceful, enlightened, and prosperous culture that has lead the middle east to a thousand years of peace and a liberal utopia of human rights and education.
2013-01-28 09:53:22 AM  
1 votes:
They had also applied amputations for thieves and stoning of adulterers under sharia law.

An eye for an eye. Suck it, limbs.
2013-01-28 09:52:22 AM  
1 votes:
This is why we can't have nice old things.

They're just doing it out of spite at this point, aren't they.
2013-01-28 08:23:33 AM  
1 votes:

kid_icarus: I wonder what people in Timbuktu reference when they want to describe something as being incredibly remote and distant?


Probably Bumf*ck.
2013-01-28 06:16:20 AM  
1 votes:
Leave Brittany the books alone!
 
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