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(Sportige)   He's still not 26, but by the end of 2013, there's a good chance Lionel Messi will become the leading all-time scorer in Spanish Football   (sportige.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Messi, Spanish football, Spanish, La Liga, Copa, youth system, Athletic Bilbao, FA Cups  
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535 clicks; posted to Sports » on 28 Jan 2013 at 9:56 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-28 10:17:04 AM  
Soccer fans:

Please stop. Most of us don't know who this is and the ones who do don't care. There's a reason that issue of TIME came out with him on the cover everywhere else but the states, and here the cover story was about household cleaners or something. Except for a small deviant minority in this country, nobody likes soccer.
 
2013-01-28 10:18:36 AM  

Super_pope: Soccer fans:

Please stop. Most of us don't know who this is and the ones who do don't care. There's a reason that issue of TIME came out with him on the cover everywhere else but the states, and here the cover story was about household cleaners or something. Except for a small deviant minority in this country, nobody likes soccer.


I guess I'm a deviant then. I enjoy the sport.

F*ck you.
 
2013-01-28 10:20:34 AM  
Well of course he is subby. They don't call it "Sight beyond sight" for nothing!
 
2013-01-28 10:21:51 AM  
I'm glad I get to see Messi. Kid is incredible. This must be like the old timers felt about seeing Pele and Maradona in their prime.

/I do have to say though, he benefits from having a team of some of the best players in the game with him every match.
 
2013-01-28 10:23:04 AM  

strangeguitar: I guess I'm a deviant then


There's no guess work involved. Its just you and me in here. A pro wrestling thread would have 1000+ posts by now. Football player getting hurt? Multiple threads with 300 posts each. Some soccer guy's historic accomplishment? 2.

Three now.

Give it up people.
 
2013-01-28 10:27:06 AM  

Super_pope: Soccer fans:

Please stop. Most of us don't know who this is and the ones who do don't care. There's a reason that issue of TIME came out with him on the cover everywhere else but the states, and here the cover story was about household cleaners or something. Except for a small deviant minority in this country, nobody likes soccer.


Someone made you read the article and then leave a comment? Fark you, some of us are fans of the game, and are wildly impressed with his talent.
 
2013-01-28 10:27:47 AM  

Super_pope: strangeguitar: I guess I'm a deviant then

There's no guess work involved. Its just you and me in here. A pro wrestling thread would have 1000+ posts by now. Football player getting hurt? Multiple threads with 300 posts each. Some soccer guy's historic accomplishment? 2.

Three now.

Give it up people.


Fail. If only you had the choice not to post...

Anyway, anyone else find it hilarious that Ronaldo had a hattrick yesterday, only to be upstaged a couple of hours later with Messi scoring four goals?
 
2013-01-28 10:34:36 AM  
I think it's safe to say he is the Highlander
 
2013-01-28 10:35:47 AM  

TonnageVT: Super_pope: strangeguitar: I guess I'm a deviant then

There's no guess work involved. Its just you and me in here. A pro wrestling thread would have 1000+ posts by now. Football player getting hurt? Multiple threads with 300 posts each. Some soccer guy's historic accomplishment? 2.

Three now.

Give it up people.

Fail. If only you had the choice not to post...

Anyway, anyone else find it hilarious that Ronaldo had a hattrick yesterday, only to be upstaged a couple of hours later with Messi scoring four goals?


*raises hand*

Back to the topic: Yes, Messi is the farking man. A lot of people criticize him for his performances with Argentina. In his defense: even the great George Best couldn't get N. Ireland into a World Cup.
 
2013-01-28 10:46:51 AM  
...and he's a joy to watch. Doesn't flop, and doesn't exhibit a mega-ego like a certain someone who plays for Real.

/Still don't get the soccer hate. WV native, and I have followed it internationally since the 80s.
 
2013-01-28 10:53:45 AM  

Super_pope: Soccer fans:

Please stop. Most of us don't know who this is and the ones who do don't care. There's a reason that issue of TIME came out with him on the cover everywhere else but the states, and here the cover story was about household cleaners or something. Except for a small deviant minority in this country, nobody likes soccer


Actually, except for a small deviant minority in this country, most people don't hate soccer either. But that small deviant minority, of which you are a member, is for some reason threatened enough by the sport to try to suppress enthusiasm for it.
 
2013-01-28 11:02:06 AM  

Super_pope: Soccer fans:

Please stop. Most of us don't know who this is and the ones who do don't care. There's a reason that issue of TIME came out with him on the cover everywhere else but the states, and here the cover story was about household cleaners or something. Except for a small deviant minority in this country, nobody likes soccer.


Get ready. It's going to start taking American Football players away.
 
2013-01-28 11:02:30 AM  
It still blows my mind that people hate soccer yet still love sports like baseball. They claim that soccer is boring b/c there isn't enough scoring, yet say that baseball is great and is a thinking man's game. Let's for a second ignore the diving aspect and soccer and focus on the fact that at any given second of a game, you have 20 players actively moving (i'm leaving keepers out of it). You can focus on any player during a game and see that they are not standing still. In fact, a well trained team is moving in concert. they are making blindside runs and the ball is being delivered from 60 yards away, only to be dropped at their feet. This is done without a coach shouting the play so that each player knows where to go. This is done without a 30 second break after every play. This is done on a 120X65 yard field for 90 minutes. This is done while involving every player on the field.
There are few games that do so much (hockey/lacrosse/basketball), but none of them do it for the extended periods on such a big field. That is why the world loves soccer. Why america doesn't absolutely blows my mind.

Super_dope, please tell me what is so fantastic about your favorite sport?
 
2013-01-28 11:07:27 AM  

Rwa2play: Back to the topic: Yes, Messi is the farking man. A lot of people criticize him for his performances with Argentina. In his defense: even the great George Best couldn't get N. Ireland into a World Cup.


The problem is that Messi is a great scorer AND a great playmaker. On Barcelona they have Xavi and Iniesta, who are even better playmakers, so it makes sense for them to use him in a scoring role. On Argentina he's easily their best playmaker, so he's not going to be scoring as many goals if he's used in that capacity.
 
2013-01-28 11:17:21 AM  
Serious question, would Messi be as good as he is on any premier league side?
 
2013-01-28 11:20:10 AM  

TonnageVT: Serious question, would Messi be as good as he is on any premier league side?


He would fit right into Arsenal, for one.

/They always try to walk it in
 
2013-01-28 11:21:33 AM  

TonnageVT: Serious question, would Messi be as good as he is on any premier league side?


Yes and no.
His talent is undeniable, but his style of play is very different than EPL style. If you want your comparison, look at CR7. He did great at Man U, and i think he won the scoring title one season, but at Real, he is much more dangerous.
I think Messi would easily be the high scorer, or one of the highest scorers in the EPL, but he wouldn't shine as he does at Barca.
 
2013-01-28 11:23:02 AM  

TonnageVT: Serious question, would Messi be as good as he is on any premier league side?


Perhaps on Chelsea with their 3 playmakers in behind Torres/Ba. United would need a playmaker (Eriksen from Ajax? Goetze from Dortmund?) for Messi to play off of I would think, then again Rooney could fill that role in a 4-4-1-1. Arsenal would with Wilshire and Cazorla...but they need a holding MF (yeah Wenger, I'm still waiting for you to get off your duff and sign a holding MF! Sissoko was there for the taking and you let Newcastle get him!).

Honestly now: imagine Swansea with him. Maybe they have nowhere close to the talent of Barca; but with the pace of the BPL, he'd get a few goals.
 
2013-01-28 11:30:31 AM  
I think that if David Silva and Juan Mata can do so well in the Premier League, there's no reason Messi won't be a star there as well. Sure, not the same position, but he's more talented than the both of them.
 
2013-01-28 11:35:17 AM  
I haven't really seen Messi get hit, so I don't know how he'll take to the physicality of the PL. Until he gets a reducer or two, we'll never really know how he handles the league. That said, on the right team with the right system and the right players, he'll be phenominal.
 
2013-01-28 11:36:42 AM  

TonnageVT: Serious question, would Messi be as good as he is on any premier league side?


He'd be as good, but his numbers wouldn't be, I don't think.
 
2013-01-28 12:02:27 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: Well of course he is subby. They don't call it "Sight beyond sight" for nothing!


Too obscure?
 
2013-01-28 12:40:15 PM  
Glad to see I'm not the only one who doubts whether he would put up the same numbers outside the Spanish leagues. He still is a rare talent and would be damn good anywhere he went though.

/La Liga is too top heavy: Barca and Real M only win, maybe Valencia in an odd year
//its no EPL or Bund
 
2013-01-28 12:48:18 PM  

ADubs86: I haven't really seen Messi get hit, so I don't know how he'll take to the physicality of the PL. Until he gets a reducer or two, we'll never really know how he handles the league. That said, on the right team with the right system and the right players, he'll be phenominal.


Good lord what would happen if Barca ever play Stoke. For all the skill Barca are a little powder puff when it comes to the rough stuff and with people like Shawcross sticking the boot in it could get very ugly.

The big problem with Barca is that they don't have a classic midfield enforcer or proper centre backs. Now with the players they have its not much of an issue as most teams don't have the skill to exploit it but some do. Just look at what Chelsea did in the champions league though they managed to out play them. Out of curiosity has Barca ever faced a good Italian side in the knock out rounds of the champions league?
 
2013-01-28 12:55:11 PM  

TonnageVT: Super_pope: strangeguitar: I guess I'm a deviant then

There's no guess work involved. Its just you and me in here. A pro wrestling thread would have 1000+ posts by now. Football player getting hurt? Multiple threads with 300 posts each. Some soccer guy's historic accomplishment? 2.

Three now.

Give it up people.

Fail. If only you had the choice not to post...

Anyway, anyone else find it hilarious that Ronaldo had a hattrick yesterday, only to be upstaged a couple of hours later with Messi scoring four goals?


Those vehemently anti football people always remind me of those people in school who were always the first to bully people for being a "homo" and then ten years later are arrested for picking up men in public toilets.

Sports are like women. The only thing that matters is that you like them.

/watches football, rugby, cricket mostly
//plus the Olympics, American football, F1
 
2013-01-28 12:57:08 PM  

Norfolking Chance: Out of curiosity has Barca ever faced a good Italian side in the knock out rounds of the champions league?


Knocked out in the 2010 semis by Jose Mourinho's Inter, 3-2 agg. Pretty sure that's the only time.
 
2013-01-28 01:01:02 PM  

FireZs: Super_pope: Soccer fans:

Please stop. Most of us don't know who this is and the ones who do don't care. There's a reason that issue of TIME came out with him on the cover everywhere else but the states, and here the cover story was about household cleaners or something. Except for a small deviant minority in this country, nobody likes soccer

Actually, except for a small deviant minority in this country, most people don't hate soccer either. But that small deviant minority, of which you are a member, is for some reason threatened enough by the sport to try to suppress enthusiasm for it.


Well at least we know Frank Deford's Fark Handle.
Seriously, why so threatened Pope? I've grown up with the game and it never detracted from my enjoyment of other sports. I know that usually the hate of the game comes from being the fat kid that nobody picked but who found a home as a second string lineman in flag football, but, that may or moay not apply to you. I played both helmetball and soccer (baseball too) throughout high school and I never felt the need to bash water polo or golf. I don't get the hate, unless, you know, the whole fat kid thing.
 
2013-01-28 01:09:00 PM  
So that's, what, three goals?
 
2013-01-28 01:24:14 PM  
I wish short black kids in America would take up soccer. Seriously, we would destroy other teams. A kid I play soccer with now was like hundreds of other short black kids I played basketball & football with - quick as hell, phenomenally athletic, but at 5'6", was never going to get very far. He focused on soccer and was a four-tear starter at Stanford.

Can you imagine Allen Iverson on the soccer field?
 
2013-01-28 01:39:42 PM  

germ78: Glad to see I'm not the only one who doubts whether he would put up the same numbers outside the Spanish leagues. He still is a rare talent and would be damn good anywhere he went though.

/La Liga is too top heavy: Barca and Real M only win, maybe Valencia in an odd year
//its no EPL or Bund


There are currently 4 Spanish teams remaining in the Champions League (Real Madrid; Barcelona, Valencia and Malaga), vs. only 2 for the EPL (Arsenal and Man U) and 3 for the Bundesliga (Dortmund and Bayern).

And it's a weaker argument, obviously, but the fact that Spanish clubs have won 5 of the last 9 Europa League titles (while England has 0) speaks somewhat to the quality of teams below the big 2.

Also, if you look at the UEFA coefficients, there were 3 Spanish clubs in the top 10 last year, along with 3 English clubs. This year there are 4 Spanish sides vs. 3 English sides.
 
2013-01-28 01:39:55 PM  

Norfolking Chance: ADubs86: I haven't really seen Messi get hit, so I don't know how he'll take to the physicality of the PL. Until he gets a reducer or two, we'll never really know how he handles the league. That said, on the right team with the right system and the right players, he'll be phenominal.

Good lord what would happen if Barca ever play Stoke. For all the skill Barca are a little powder puff when it comes to the rough stuff and with people like Shawcross sticking the boot in it could get very ugly.

The big problem with Barca is that they don't have a classic midfield enforcer or proper centre backs. Now with the players they have its not much of an issue as most teams don't have the skill to exploit it but some do. Just look at what Chelsea did in the champions league though they managed to out play them. Out of curiosity has Barca ever faced a good Italian side in the knock out rounds of the champions league?


I think if Barca were to play Stoke they would eventually run circles around them, but it's not just playing Stoke that gets you. It's playing Stoke Saturday, Sunderland Wednesday in the Cup, then going to Chelsea on the following Saturday, then have Napoli in the Champions League on the following Tuesday. It's the constant grind that gets you. It's the no winter break, and in fact instead of taking time off, they play every three days. It's January in the Premier League, where there are an insane number of games you could possibly play.

The Premier League, especially the top of the Premier League, is not for the faint of heart.
 
2013-01-28 01:48:07 PM  

Norfolking Chance: Good lord what would happen if Barca ever play Stoke. For all the skill Barca are a little powder puff when it comes to the rough stuff and with people like Shawcross sticking the boot in it could get very ugly.

The big problem with Barca is that they don't have a classic midfield enforcer or proper centre backs. Now with the players they have its not much of an issue as most teams don't have the skill to exploit it but some do. Just look at what Chelsea did in the champions league though they managed to out play them. Out of curiosity has Barca ever faced a good Italian side in the knock out rounds of the champions league?


Carles Puyol is a damn fine center back, though he's slowing down due to age and injuries, a little bit. Madrid have tried to muscle Barcelona into submission with Pepe and Sergio Ramos, with only occasional success. The fact is that Barcelona will just keep the ball from you and take the fouls if needed. Once you're down to 10 men the game is theirs.

Spain's national team plays a lesser version of Barcelona's tiki-taka style, and they've prevailed over some outright muggings to win two Euros and World Cup

cdn.tuvez.com
 
2013-01-28 01:50:40 PM  
Wow, the all time leading scorer. So he will have what, like, 6 goals?
 
2013-01-28 01:52:54 PM  

ADubs86: Norfolking Chance: Out of curiosity has Barca ever faced a good Italian side in the knock out rounds of the champions league?

Knocked out in the 2010 semis by Jose Mourinho's Inter, 3-2 agg. Pretty sure that's the only time.


They played AC Milan last year in the quarters.
 
2013-01-28 01:54:11 PM  

ADubs86: This must be like the old timers felt about seeing Pele and Maradona in their prime


Thanks for making me feel old... :)

germ78:/La Liga is too top heavy: Barca and Real M only win, maybe Valencia in an odd year
//its no EPL or Bund


Kindly explain how the EPL isn't "top heavy". I enjoy watching the EPL as much as the next guy, but at the moment there's only three teams that can possibly win the league: United or a team with a billionaire owner pumping substantial quantities of their own money into the team with no thought of getting a return on that investment. Honestly, the best a non-Chelsea/City/United team can hope for in the EPL currently is the 4th CL play-in slot. That's awfully top-heavy in my book...

Fun fact, since the inception of the EPL in the 1992-93 season, only five different teams have won the EPL and five different teams have won La Liga. In both cases, two of those five only have a single title (City, Rovers, Atletico and Deportivo). Valencia as two titles and Arsenal/Chelsea have three apiece). During that time, there were only two seasons where neither Barcelona or Real Madrid were champions or runners up in the league. Also during that time, there were only three seasons when Manchester United was neither the champion or the runner up.
/EPL fan
//...still thinks it's very top heavy
 
2013-01-28 02:04:49 PM  

TheMatchHare: United or a team with a billionaire owner pumping substantial quantities of their own money into the team with no thought of getting a return on that investment.


So, like United? Well, I guess the Glazers are borrowing money to pump into the club, but you know.

Fun fact, since the inception of the EPL in the 1992-93 season, only five different teams have won the EPL and five different teams have won La Liga

It's been almost 10 years since it was somebody other than those two. There's been four different champions in the Premier League since then.
 
2013-01-28 02:05:51 PM  

Norfolking Chance: The big problem with Barca is that they don't have a classic midfield enforcer or proper centre backs. Now with the players they have its not much of an issue as most teams don't have the skill to exploit it but some do. Just look at what Chelsea did in the champions league though they managed to out play them. Out of curiosity has Barca ever faced a good Italian side in the knock out rounds of the champions league?


Mascherano plays the role of their midfield enforcer, and Pique/Puyol are proper center backs. The problem is when Pique/Puyol get injured they don't have any good proper center backs left, so they have to make do with Mascherano/Busquets/Song in center back, with predictably terrible results. It's fine if they can score 5 or 6 (see: Barca at Deportivo La Coruna 10/20/2012), but it's not sustainable. They need more depth at the back.
 
2013-01-28 02:18:52 PM  

mitchcumstein1: So, like United? Well, I guess the Glazers are borrowing money to pump into the club, but you know.


Very fair point.

mitchcumstein1: It's been almost 10 years since it was somebody other than those two. There's been four different champions in the Premier League since then.


...and, again, fair point. I don't mean to imply that I don't like the EPL, but I just get sick of people claiming it's that much better than La Liga in terms of competitive balance.
 
2013-01-28 02:20:08 PM  

mitchcumstein1: It's been almost 10 years since it was somebody other than those two. There's been four different champions in the Premier League since then.


In any given year, there are 3 teams with a chance to win the title: Man U, Chelsea, and then either Arsenal or (more recently) City. These days a fan of Spurs, Newcastle or even Arsenal or Liverpool is, on average, no better off than a fan of Valencia, Bilbao or Atletico Madrid. In both cases, you know going in that you're best hope is a deep run in your Cup competition and qualification for Europe.

The EPL is ever so slightly more competitive, but it's really splitting hairs.
 
2013-01-28 02:55:24 PM  

chechcal: mitchcumstein1: It's been almost 10 years since it was somebody other than those two. There's been four different champions in the Premier League since then.

In any given year, there are 3 teams with a chance to win the title: Man U, Chelsea, and then either Arsenal or (more recently) City. These days a fan of Spurs, Newcastle or even Arsenal or Liverpool is, on average, no better off than a fan of Valencia, Bilbao or Atletico Madrid. In both cases, you know going in that you're best hope is a deep run in your Cup competition and qualification for Europe.

The EPL is ever so slightly more competitive, but it's really splitting hairs.


It's not the top 3 or top 5 that make the EPL better, it's the teams 10-17. Stoke, Swansea, West Ham, Norwich, hell Newcastle, these are quality sides that in the bottom half of the table.
 
2013-01-28 03:37:50 PM  

FLMountainMan: I wish short black kids in America would take up soccer. Seriously, we would destroy other teams. A kid I play soccer with now was like hundreds of other short black kids I played basketball & football with - quick as hell, phenomenally athletic, but at 5'6", was never going to get very far. He focused on soccer and was a four-tear starter at Stanford.

Can you imagine Allen Iverson on the soccer field?


Not for practice
 
2013-01-28 04:32:16 PM  

northguineahills: ...and he's a joy to watch. Doesn't flop, and doesn't exhibit a mega-ego like a certain someone who plays for Real.

/Still don't get the soccer hate. WV native, and I have followed it internationally since the 80s.



Followed international for about 4years here. Really getting into it. Taking my son to a USMNT game in Chicago this summer since he really likes it. Of course being in middle of an american football area, we are looked down upon. As some fathers say, your son will be a sissy playing soccer. I politely say true...but his brain wont be swiss cheese by time he is 25 from concussions.
 
2013-01-28 04:42:29 PM  

mitchcumstein1: It's not the top 3 or top 5 that make the EPL better, it's the teams 10-17. Stoke, Swansea, West Ham, Norwich, hell Newcastle, these are quality sides that in the bottom half of the table.


Not saying that they aren't quality teams, but are they better than Malaga, Bilbao, Levanta, etc. of Spain? Performance in the Europa League and the UEFA coefficients say no, they aren't. But as I said previously, that's not exactly an iron-clad argument, so it's mainly a matter of conjecture and opinion. Also there's the simple fact that we see far more EPL games in the US than we do La Liga games.
 
2013-01-28 04:46:24 PM  

rcantley: So that's, what, three goals?


thegdouble: Wow, the all time leading scorer. So he will have what, like, 6 goals?


So he is going to end up with like 5 goals or so? Am I doing it right?
 
2013-01-28 05:00:43 PM  
Why do you guys engage the socially disabled in their worthless trolling attempts? If I saw a fark headline recently posted with no comments about baseball, golf, NASCAR or some other equally boring (to me) quasi-sport, it wouldn't occur to me to click on the comments and compose an ignorant, spittle-fueled rant about how the sports I like are better than the sports other people like. I would probably come across as a kid who models for autism awareness ads, with a healthy dose of narcissism and an inflated sense of badassery. Christ, hit "Ignore" and move on.

And Messi has to face shiatgigglers like Pepe in ten thousand Clasicos every season, he could probably handle Stoke.
 
2013-01-28 05:11:30 PM  

eagles95: northguineahills: ...and he's a joy to watch. Doesn't flop, and doesn't exhibit a mega-ego like a certain someone who plays for Real.

/Still don't get the soccer hate. WV native, and I have followed it internationally since the 80s.


Followed international for about 4years here. Really getting into it. Taking my son to a USMNT game in Chicago this summer since he really likes it. Of course being in middle of an american football area, we are looked down upon. As some fathers say, your son will be a sissy playing soccer. I politely say true...but his brain wont be swiss cheese by time he is 25 from concussions.


Right, tell the jabronis to run 12 Miles on a soccer pitch in 90 minutes or less and less see them say something after that
 
2013-01-28 05:13:25 PM  

eagles95: northguineahills: ...and he's a joy to watch. Doesn't flop, and doesn't exhibit a mega-ego like a certain someone who plays for Real.

/Still don't get the soccer hate. WV native, and I have followed it internationally since the 80s.


Followed international for about 4years here. Really getting into it. Taking my son to a USMNT game in Chicago this summer since he really likes it. Of course being in middle of an american football area, we are looked down upon. As some fathers say, your son will be a sissy playing soccer. I politely say true...but his brain wont be swiss cheese by time he is 25 from concussions.


cache.boston.com
uh, what?
 
2013-01-28 05:14:20 PM  

TheKnownUniverse: And Messi has to face shiatgigglers like Pepe in ten thousand Clasicos every season, he could probably handle Stoke.


Yeah, Messi gets hard physical play constantly from defenders in all competitions, as many defenders would rather risk the foul than star in a Messi highlight reel. What's impressive is that he beats them more often than not anyway, even when he's fouled (which is where many of the "Messi doesn't dive" examples come from). I agree, he'd be fine against Stoke. The only way that argument makes sense is if the officials let absolutely everything go.
 
2013-01-28 05:28:21 PM  

chechcal: Not saying that they aren't quality teams, but are they better than Malaga, Bilbao, Levanta, etc. of Spain?


Well, Malaga sits in 4th and Levanta in 8th currently, so I would hope that they are better than teams in the bottom half of the table in the EPL. I would say that Sp*rs, Arsenal(even with their maddening form at times) and Everton are every bit as good as those two squads though. As far as Bilbo? Yeah, I'd take Stoke and Swansea and probably Newcastle over them.

Maybe a better way to put it would be that the EPL is tougher. The Spanish league does not play the same grueling schedule that the English sides do. There's no break in England, and when everybody else istaking theirs the English sides are actually playing more games. Maybe if England did that, it would help in European competitions.

And the Europa League, it seems, doesn't mean as much in England as it does in other countries. When the bigger squads crash out, or don't make the cut for the Champions League, they don't put very much into trying to win it. Look at Sp*rs, and United and City last year. It's not that big a deal. Athletico Madrid crashes out, they try to win it, Man City does and they play their younger kids and focus on the league, and getting back to the Champions League.
 
2013-01-28 05:32:02 PM  

TheKnownUniverse: And Messi has to face shiatgigglers like Pepe in ten thousand Clasicos every season, he could probably handle Stoke.


Stoke would beat on him like he hasn't been before, there's not one shiatgiggler, there's 4.

Ryan Shawcross will try to separate your foot from your ankle and you'll get booed for it.
 
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