Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Daily Mail)   They got a car, man, that runs on air. It runs on AIR, man   (dailymail.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Peugeots, Coming Soon, compressed air, hybrid cars, industrial action, bedrock, currency crisis, Politics of France  
•       •       •

4259 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Jan 2013 at 10:05 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



51 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-01-28 09:48:34 AM  
Having a compressed air tank with enough PSI to power the car around the city is exactly what I want sitting directly under the driver's seat.
 
2013-01-28 09:49:28 AM  
But if it looks just like an ordinary car how will its owners be able to show off and feel smug?
 
2013-01-28 09:51:18 AM  

UberDave: Having a compressed air tank with enough PSI to power the car around the city is exactly what I want sitting directly under the driver's seat.


If that's how cars had always been powered and someone suggested putting a tank full of highly flammable/borderline explosive fuel in a tank a couple of feet away you'd feel just the same.
 
2013-01-28 10:21:56 AM  
www.topgear.com

Rubbish!
 
2013-01-28 10:23:23 AM  
This has been a thing for some time. I await further developments.
 
2013-01-28 10:29:54 AM  
Doesn't the Tata Nano do that too?
 
2013-01-28 10:31:21 AM  

Nilatir: [www.topgear.com image 560x315]

Rubbish!


Came for Clarkson, leaving satisfied.

Wait, that didn't sound right.

/Would totally buy an air hybrid.
 
2013-01-28 10:36:03 AM  
Old news is old.  I saw this years ago on one of those 'next big thing' shows they used to have on the History channel.
 
2013-01-28 10:38:54 AM  
How much energy does it take to compress the air?
 
2013-01-28 10:39:44 AM  
Is it gleaming alloy, and two lanes wide?
 
2013-01-28 10:42:03 AM  
What are the relative efficiencies of regenerative braking using air storage or capacitors? I can see air storage being lighter but I wonder at the number of watt hours per volume in both systems.
 
2013-01-28 10:42:45 AM  

cgraves67: Doesn't the Tata Nano do that too?


Sort of, the Tatas are completely driven by compressed air. Though Wikipedia claims they're having some problems with temperature.

/haha, tatas
 
2013-01-28 10:48:35 AM  

Valiente: This has been a thing for some time. I await further developments.


Yeah, thus far it hasn't really been used much because it requires massive compressors and the storage tanks needed for any kind of range are a packaging headache.

For those who aren't familiar with it, it's almost a throwback to steam expansion engines but without the boiler... the air is already compressed and stored onboard. As the air is allowed to expand, it turns a crankshaft. Heck, there's also not much difference between it and a normal internal combustion engine... just without the air intake and actual combustion. Internal combustion is just a method by which air is made to expand (it pushes on a piston connected to a shaft, which gets you the motive force you are after).
 
2013-01-28 10:48:45 AM  

zedster: How much energy does it take to compress the air?


How much energy does it take to run an ICE at idle while sitting in traffic and not moving?
 
2013-01-28 10:50:18 AM  

UberDave: Having a compressed air tank with enough PSI to power the car around the city is exactly what I want sitting directly under the driver's seat.


I remember reading about how another air car company designed non exploding tanks. The tanks are made out of some type of special carbon fiber.
 
2013-01-28 10:50:41 AM  
It has some advantages, in that sooner or later batteries wear out. The air tank can be just serviced with replacement of the seals and things of that nature. Overall though I'm not really seeing the advantages. Batteries can leak unpleasant things, but something at high PSI suddenly failing is unpleasant in other ways.

Batteries are just going to get better and cheaper as more and more industries pour money into R&D. Whereas this air tank is a fringe system that some of the second tier companies are toying with. In a couple years the Prius will be cheaper than this, unless Peugeot can keep pace.
 
2013-01-28 10:51:32 AM  

zedster: How much energy does it take to compress the air?


It hardly matters since most of it is regenerative from braking. The bigger issue (and the main stumbling block to the Tata) is that compared to gasoline, compressed air doesn't really hold that much energy. I doubt their 117mpg claims but having a system where you are not simply wasting your breaking energy is still a good idea.

It only takes about 11 hp to make a car cruise at 55. Using compressed air for the bulk of the work of accelerating should make a huge difference (in theory anyway).
 
2013-01-28 10:53:01 AM  
Disappointed in all of you (if he cared, which he doesn't because he is aloof and stoned):
30.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-01-28 11:01:12 AM  

Theory Of Null: UberDave: Having a compressed air tank with enough PSI to power the car around the city is exactly what I want sitting directly under the driver's seat.

I remember reading about how another air car company designed non exploding tanks. The tanks are made out of some type of special carbon fiber.


Non exploding means really low odds of exploding. Compressed air represents potential mechanical energy which can do things like grant shards of exploding tank kinetic energy. I have no doubt they have all kinds of things in place to ensure that energy goes elsewhere. That said the question is:

Odds of a battery catching on fire or exploding and spewing nasty chemicals everywhere vs the odds of the air tank peppering you with shrapnel. Plus of course the practical odds of either of them happening.
 
2013-01-28 11:10:43 AM  

zedster: How much energy does it take to compress the air?


You have to pump it quite a bit
 
2013-01-28 11:15:37 AM  
Wait, is this the thread where we latch on to an inferior and crummy technology and try to imagine that physical constants can be broken because fark materials science that's why and pretend that the device is actually better than the internal combustion engine?
 
2013-01-28 11:18:51 AM  
Those tall oxygen tanks seen in welding setups?

I saw one lose its regulator head. Almost crapped my pants.
 
2013-01-28 11:19:52 AM  

wingnut396: zedster: How much energy does it take to compress the air?

How much energy does it take to run an ICE at idle while sitting in traffic and not moving?


42?
 
2013-01-28 11:23:01 AM  
i212.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-28 11:39:33 AM  
You could have a $5k car with the safety of a tank and 125 mpg, and you can bet your ass it would be available everywhere but the USA.
 
2013-01-28 11:42:16 AM  
don't gasoline engines technically... run on air?
 
2013-01-28 11:47:19 AM  
I want to build an air powered motorcycle.
 
2013-01-28 11:52:42 AM  
 
2013-01-28 11:53:13 AM  
Oh yeah? Air Man and his buddies are NOT going to let this happen. Will stop to Megamans vehicular fantasies yet!

www.vgmpf.com
 
2013-01-28 12:18:53 PM  

etherknot: Oh yeah? Air Man and his buddies are NOT going to let this happen. Will stop to Megamans vehicular fantasies yet!

[www.vgmpf.com image 256x224]


Air Man + Quick Man + Crash Man = Flash Man + Heat Man + Metal Man.
 
2013-01-28 12:30:05 PM  

Fano: Wait, is this the thread where we latch on to an inferior and crummy technology and try to imagine that physical constants can be broken because fark materials science that's why and pretend that the device is actually better than the internal combustion engine?


Does it help that we don't have to buy our air from the Saudis?
 
2013-01-28 12:30:19 PM  
Not that different from the Australian Hydraulic Launch Assist. With regeneration and an engine, you don't need much storage. With air providing the acceleration, the engine can be tiny, no more than what is needed to cruise at highway speeds. Even a full-sized car can do that with a 20kW engine, with the A/C/ and headlights on.
 
2013-01-28 12:31:25 PM  

UberDave: Having a compressed air tank with enough PSI to power the car around the city is exactly what I want sitting directly under the driver's seat.


And gasoline is safer? All you would have from a compressed air explosion is probably shrapnel, whereas a gas explosion would be shrapnel, burning fuel spraying all over the place, AND the explosion.
 
2013-01-28 12:33:11 PM  
News flash, people. Any system that holds enough potential energy and specific power to move a car long distances at high speed is potentially dangerous (and that includes your precious, precious gasoline). The bigger problem with compressed air is that it has low specific energy.
 
2013-01-28 12:43:21 PM  

stupiddream: Old news is old.  I saw this years ago on one of those 'next big thing' shows they used to have on the History channel.


Yeah, but the difference is that it is not longer a History Channel "next big thing", but a ready-to-roll 'the big thing is here'. Sorry if you're all jaded and shiat, but I guess it DOES make you cool for being so well-informed.
 
2013-01-28 01:11:29 PM  

ha-ha-guy: It has some advantages, in that sooner or later batteries wear out. The air tank can be just serviced with replacement of the seals and things of that nature. Overall though I'm not really seeing the advantages. Batteries can leak unpleasant things, but something at high PSI suddenly failing is unpleasant in other ways.

Batteries are just going to get better and cheaper as more and more industries pour money into R&D. Whereas this air tank is a fringe system that some of the second tier companies are toying with. In a couple years the Prius will be cheaper than this, unless Peugeot can keep pace.


Yeah, but batteries are also heavy and space hogs. I could also see this as being a possible cheaper alternative, so that Hybrid can be more affordable.
 
2013-01-28 01:15:43 PM  
Planning a trip to Air Force one, they're out there, man
 
2013-01-28 01:16:59 PM  
FTA: "Citroen believes it can put an air-powered vehicle on the road by 2016 . . . By 2020, the cars could be achieving an average of 117 miles a gallon, the company predicts."

Also hot off the AP Wire: "MrSteve007 believes he could have a threesome with Scarlett Johansson & Salma Hayek in the near future - the Farker predicts."

Just because I believe something could happen doesn't mean it has a chance in hell of coming true.
 
2013-01-28 02:01:31 PM  
They have a car that runs on compressed air
Air car
 
2013-01-28 02:24:19 PM  

Mikey1969: stupiddream: Old news is old.  I saw this years ago on one of those 'next big thing' shows they used to have on the History channel.

Yeah, but the difference is that it is not longer a History Channel "next big thing", but a ready-to-roll '.'the big thing is here'. Sorry if you're all jaded and shiat, but I guess it DOES make you cool for being so well-informed.


Damn, is it 2016 already?!?!  I missed three years somehow.

My point is that this has been around for awhile as mentioned by many of the folks in this thread.  And yes I'm cool as well as informed because I read and comprehended the article.
 
2013-01-28 03:12:31 PM  

Mikey1969: UberDave: Having a compressed air tank with enough PSI to power the car around the city is exactly what I want sitting directly under the driver's seat.

And gasoline is safer? All you would have from a compressed air explosion is probably shrapnel, whereas a gas explosion would be shrapnel, burning fuel spraying all over the place, AND the explosion.


Says someone who has obviously never witnessed a pressure vessel failure.

I don't necessarily agree that this is unsafe, proper design and judicious use of sacrificial seals can ensure the failure results in a safe decompression 99.99999% of the time but lets not pretend that these don't have inherent risk.
 
2013-01-28 03:33:29 PM  
Oddly enough, it isn't *that* crazy (although I'm pretty sure if they ever get it to work better than gas it will be already done in by electric). Every gas engine compresses air to something like 150psi (right before the spark plug fires) and diesel will go even higher. If you change one of the valves on the cylinder to a "feed the air bladder" valve (controllable when you want to fill it or not) and turn off the (preferably direct) fuel injectors you should have a serious supply of compressed air. Personally, I'd use it as a turbo-lag eliminator (intercooler? how about 150psi rushing towards ambient!). [I could have sworn I read about somebody trying this (only using the compressed air to push the cylinder) in arstechica but my google-fu isn't strong enough].

In all seriousness, compare this thing to a diesel SMART. No room (equal), no power (equal), incredible l/km (close, especially since Euro-types measure it this way). No way the compressor and air tank costing only 1000GPBs.
 
2013-01-28 04:45:34 PM  

Hollie Maea: News flash, people. Any system that holds enough potential energy and specific power to move a car long distances at high speed is potentially dangerous (and that includes your precious, precious gasoline). The bigger problem with compressed air is that it has low specific energy.


that's why I like this idea of using it in a hybrid capacity and not as the sole energy source of the car. there are multiple ways to store/release energy in a hybrid to reduce fuel consumption and I'll just think of this as joining the ranks of batteries, capacitors, and flywheels. the more brains we have pursuing different technologies the better!
 
2013-01-28 09:00:23 PM  
Too bad that when it is finally offered for sale it will look like this:
www.reocities.com
Hot like the air in an otto cycle engine.
 
2013-01-28 09:14:00 PM  

wraithmare: Nilatir: [www.topgear.com image 560x315]

Rubbish!

Came for Clarkson, leaving satisfied.

Wait, that didn't sound right.

/Would totally buy an air hybrid.


I would so buy one of these: Link

Runs on a compressed air driven electric generator.
 
2013-01-28 10:10:57 PM  
Hey modmins, I have a great idea.

Let's just greenlight every shiaty Daily Fail thread automatically. In fact, let's not greelight anything else. Better yet. Just shut down the servers, turn off the lights, and everybody can just go read Daily Fail instead.

DAILY FAIL. DAILY FAIL. DAILY FAIL.

Looking forward to tomorrow's "DISGUSTING LAZY SLACKERS BOAST ABOUT SMOKING CRACK WITH YOUR MONEY" headline.
 
2013-01-29 02:00:10 AM  

Hardy-r-r: Those tall oxygen tanks seen in welding setups?

I saw one lose its regulator head. Almost crapped my pants.


I see and raise.
 
2013-01-29 09:40:45 AM  

Hella Fark: Hollie Maea: News flash, people. Any system that holds enough potential energy and specific power to move a car long distances at high speed is potentially dangerous (and that includes your precious, precious gasoline). The bigger problem with compressed air is that it has low specific energy.

that's why I like this idea of using it in a hybrid capacity and not as the sole energy source of the car. there are multiple ways to store/release energy in a hybrid to reduce fuel consumption and I'll just think of this as joining the ranks of batteries, capacitors, and flywheels. the more brains we have pursuing different technologies the better!


Yeah. There's other factors in play besides specific energy, also. A compressed air tank (especially one used as a small supplement to the overall power system) will likely look good from a weight, cost, and mechanical complexity perspective.

If the tank's main job is to hold energy otherwise wasted during deceleration, it might be preferable to batteries. This may be especially true in China/India where cost is a much stronger constraint.
 
2013-01-29 11:23:46 AM  

Flint Ironstag: UberDave: Having a compressed air tank with enough PSI to power the car around the city is exactly what I want sitting directly under the driver's seat.

If that's how cars had always been powered and someone suggested putting a tank full of highly flammable/borderline explosive fuel in a tank a couple of feet away you'd feel just the same.


Not necessarily. A small leak in a gas tank is potentially dangerous. A small leak in a 1200psi (or whatever pressure they're using) air tank quickly becomes a BIG leak, releasing an enormous amount of undirected energy. Not saying it can't be done safely, but it needs some consideration. I'm sure they've addressed it. We'll just have to see how.
 
2013-01-29 04:07:54 PM  

RobotSpider: Not necessarily. A small leak in a gas tank is potentially dangerous. A small leak in a 1200psi (or whatever pressure they're using) air tank quickly becomes a BIG leak, releasing an enormous amount of undirected energy. Not saying it can't be done safely, but it needs some consideration. I'm sure they've addressed it. We'll just have to see how.


A number of US cities use compressed natural gas to power their buses and other public vehicles. Their service pressure is 3600 psi at 70F, which means the tanks have to be built for 5000+ psi for long days in the sun.

They carry enough fuel for 350+ miles of travel, and their fuel is extremely flammable. They use a mixture of technologies (nested layers of exterior linings, automatic venting in certain crisis situations, on-board monitoring, etc.), but the net result is that these tanks are really, really hard to rupture. I haven't heard any horror stories of exploding buses or anything.

Compare that to a small compressed air system for regenerative braking and I think the engineering is both non-scary and largely worked out.
 
Displayed 50 of 51 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report