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(Ars Technica)   How Newegg crushed the "shopping cart" patent and saved online retail   (arstechnica.com) divider line 191
    More: Hero, newegg, chief legal officers, Jones Day, software company, plain, Thank You for Calling, hardware stores  
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24545 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jan 2013 at 9:55 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-27 09:58:25 PM
Always happy to see a patent troll lose.
 
2013-01-27 10:01:56 PM
Hope this deters other patent trolls.. But I doubt it.
 
2013-01-27 10:03:12 PM
Patent trolls should be just behind Nazis and zombies as the top things it's okay to want to gleefully slaughter.
 
2013-01-27 10:04:40 PM
Good, fark these assholes.
 
2013-01-27 10:05:05 PM
Internet Tough Guy:
This won't stop patent trolls but will deter them. Until we actually start killing them (literally, go to their offices in real life and shoot every mother farker there) this will continue.
 
2013-01-27 10:05:12 PM
Yeah, I don't know... Having read the decision, I think Soverain had a seriously terrible, piss-poor argument for one of their claim elements, and a decent one for the other, but the panel focused on the awful argument so much that they decided the case that way. Specifically, they glossed over the fact that the Compuserve reference (being a stateful rather than stateless communication) lacked any "shopping cart messages" that included product identifiers: they were unnecessary - Compuserve knew what page you were on, so when you said "order", it knew to add that product to your cart. That's not the same in a stateless world where your server doesn't want to keep track of thousands of customers, and you need a robust way of keeping them all and their specific orders straight.
But the panel skipped over that in just a couple sentences, and instead focused on the fact that Soverain was arguing that Compuserve didn't have a shopping cart model, when it clearly did. I think that shot them in the foot.

But, either way, this is just a panel decision, and with $2.5 million on the line from the jury's damages award, it will almost certainly go to the full circuit en banc.
 
2013-01-27 10:06:47 PM
If only I'd filed a patent on the technique of patent trolling.
 
2013-01-27 10:07:26 PM
Patents that should never have been issued in the first place
 
2013-01-27 10:07:47 PM

JesseL: Patent trolls should be just behind Nazis and zombies as the top things it's okay to want to gleefully slaughter.


Hey, hold on there. Zombies were once people.
 
2013-01-27 10:08:12 PM

Theeng: patent troll

ThatBillmanGuy: patent trolls

JesseL: Patent trolls

Satanic_Hamster: patent trolls


You guys all know that Soverain is really just the company that bought OpenMarket, but still sells their product, right? It's like if GlobalCorp bought Intel and kept cranking out chips - GlobalCorp wouldn't be a "troll" in any usual sense of the word.
 
2013-01-27 10:08:21 PM

LincolnLogolas: If only I'd filed a patent on the technique of patent trolling.


someone else would just have patented the same thing but with rounded corners then found a way to sue you for it later.
 
2013-01-27 10:08:46 PM
Great article. Excellent to hear a summary of a patent troll losing.
 
2013-01-27 10:09:45 PM
I feel a little bit better about buying all of my computer parts through Newegg now. Not only do they have excellent customer service, but they fight against the patent trolls too.

From TFA, it sounds like Victoria's Secret is going to save about $20 million bucks due to the outcome of this case too. Maybe they should send some of their models over to Newegg as a thank you.
 
2013-01-27 10:10:19 PM
Theaetetus:
You guys all know that Soverain is really just the company that bought OpenMarket, but still sells their product, right? It's like if GlobalCorp bought Intel and kept cranking out chips - GlobalCorp wouldn't be a "troll" in any usual sense of the word.

Who didn't read the article? That's right Theaetetus didn't read the article.
 
2013-01-27 10:10:44 PM
I like Newegg, but there are a few cases where Amazon really kicks their ass. I was looking at a laptop that was ~$200 cheaper on Amazon, same model and everything. Amazon shipping costs suck, though.
 
2013-01-27 10:10:46 PM
I've always liked NewEgg- bought the parts for my last two desktops from them.

I'll have to order another soon- I'll make sure they get the business.
 
2013-01-27 10:11:54 PM

Theaetetus: Theeng: patent troll
ThatBillmanGuy: patent trolls
JesseL: Patent trolls
Satanic_Hamster: patent trolls

You guys all know that Soverain is really just the company that bought OpenMarket, but still sells their product, right? It's like if GlobalCorp bought Intel and kept cranking out chips - GlobalCorp wouldn't be a "troll" in any usual sense of the word.


According to TFA, they have not made a sale. Ever.
 
2013-01-27 10:13:01 PM

Theaetetus: Theeng: patent troll
ThatBillmanGuy: patent trolls
JesseL: Patent trolls
Satanic_Hamster: patent trolls

You guys all know that Soverain is really just the company that bought OpenMarket, but still sells their product, right? It's like if GlobalCorp bought Intel and kept cranking out chips - GlobalCorp wouldn't be a "troll" in any usual sense of the word.


Soverain bought the patents from a VC firm that acquired them from OpenMarket. They did not acquire OpenMarket and continue their business model.

If your "GlobalCorp" bought Intel and continued making chips, they wouldn't be a patent troll. If "GlobalCorp" bought Intel's patent portfolio, stopped making chips, and sued anyone that made anything remotely like it, they'd be a patent troll, just like Soverain.
 
2013-01-27 10:13:24 PM

Voiceofreason01: Theaetetus:
You guys all know that Soverain is really just the company that bought OpenMarket, but still sells their product, right? It's like if GlobalCorp bought Intel and kept cranking out chips - GlobalCorp wouldn't be a "troll" in any usual sense of the word.

Who didn't read the article? That's right Theaetetus didn't read the article.


I read the article, but more importantly, I read the Federal Circuit decision. Did you read that? No. Shiat, that's like going to Fox News for your journalism and claiming you're better informed than the researchers involved.
 
2013-01-27 10:15:43 PM

Theeng: Always happy to see a patent troll lose.


I'd be happy to see someone go all Jack Ruby on one.
 
2013-01-27 10:16:12 PM

Theaetetus: Voiceofreason01: Theaetetus:
You guys all know that Soverain is really just the company that bought OpenMarket, but still sells their product, right? It's like if GlobalCorp bought Intel and kept cranking out chips - GlobalCorp wouldn't be a "troll" in any usual sense of the word.

Who didn't read the article? That's right Theaetetus didn't read the article.

I read the article, but more importantly, I read the Federal Circuit decision. Did you read that? No. Shiat, that's like going to Fox News for your journalism and claiming you're better informed than the researchers involved.


Sounds like a certain patent attorney just lost a big case...
 
2013-01-27 10:16:16 PM
Now if Newegg would just pay for return shipping on all the damned DOA hard drives they send out, I'd give them a medal.
 
2013-01-27 10:17:11 PM

Hollie Maea: Theaetetus: Voiceofreason01: Theaetetus:
You guys all know that Soverain is really just the company that bought OpenMarket, but still sells their product, right? It's like if GlobalCorp bought Intel and kept cranking out chips - GlobalCorp wouldn't be a "troll" in any usual sense of the word.

Who didn't read the article? That's right Theaetetus didn't read the article.

I read the article, but more importantly, I read the Federal Circuit decision. Did you read that? No. Shiat, that's like going to Fox News for your journalism and claiming you're better informed than the researchers involved.

Sounds like a certain patent attorney just lost a big case...


u18chan.com
I'm not a litigator.
 
2013-01-27 10:17:43 PM
The Q&A with Newegg's Chief Legal Officer at the end of TFA is priceless. Talking about patent trolls, "Then they pop up and say "Hello, surprise! Give us your money or we will shut you down!" Screw them. Seriously, screw them. You can quote me on that."

Glad to see someone standing up to patent troll abuse.

Been a fan of Newegg for a long time. They aren't always the ceapest any more, but they still get my money regularly.
 
2013-01-27 10:18:37 PM

Hollie Maea: Sounds like a certain patent attorney just lost a big case...


Also, that's in no way consistent with the first thing I said in this thread.
 
2013-01-27 10:19:25 PM

Theaetetus: Hollie Maea: Theaetetus: Voiceofreason01: Theaetetus:
You guys all know that Soverain is really just the company that bought OpenMarket, but still sells their product, right? It's like if GlobalCorp bought Intel and kept cranking out chips - GlobalCorp wouldn't be a "troll" in any usual sense of the word.

Who didn't read the article? That's right Theaetetus didn't read the article.

I read the article, but more importantly, I read the Federal Circuit decision. Did you read that? No. Shiat, that's like going to Fox News for your journalism and claiming you're better informed than the researchers involved.

Sounds like a certain patent attorney just lost a big case...

[u18chan.com image 447x335]
I'm not a litigator.


Not for lack of trying, amiright?

/ lighten up, Frances. Just needling you for white knighting these guys.
 
2013-01-27 10:19:30 PM
Patent trolls should be just behind Nazis and zombies as the top things it's okay to want to gleefully slaughter.
you forgot evangelical Republicans
 
2013-01-27 10:20:34 PM
This stuff must be terribly inhibitory  to business.. You know, like all those guvmint regulations we always hear biatched about.
 
2013-01-27 10:21:24 PM
Hopefully the companies who chose to settle rather than go to trial will still be required to uphold the terms of their settlement and pay Sovereign (and continue to pay the 1% royalty on revenue if that was their negotiated settlement). The companies who chose to go to trial, like Avon and Victoria's Secret, should have those judgements voided and any funds they paid returned to them.

Too often companies turn tail and settle rather than grit their teeth and go to trial. Kudos to Newegg for sticking to their guns.
 
2013-01-27 10:24:14 PM

JesseL: Nazi


What about Nazi Zombies?
lh3.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-01-27 10:24:31 PM
Thank you Newegg.
 
2013-01-27 10:24:51 PM
Newegg is, was and will be the bomb.

/ The bomb
 
2013-01-27 10:26:13 PM

Plant Rights Activist: JesseL: Patent trolls should be just behind Nazis and zombies as the top things it's okay to want to gleefully slaughter.

Hey, hold on there. Zombies were once people.


That just means you don't defile their remains, unlike the Nazis and patent trolls.
 
2013-01-27 10:26:16 PM

Theaetetus: I read the article, but more importantly, I read the Federal Circuit decision. Did you read that? No. Shiat, that's like going to Fox News for your journalism and claiming you're better informed than the researchers involved.


I skimmed the decision and didn't see where there was any claim that Soverain was actually using these patents. In fact the original patents were issued for software that is hopelessly antiquated.

/kinda looks like you didn't read the article OR the Federal Circuit decision
 
2013-01-27 10:26:22 PM

jaytkay: Newegg is, was and will be the bomb.

/ The bomb


OF ALL TIME?
 
2013-01-27 10:26:52 PM

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: Patent trolls should be just behind Nazis and zombies as the top things it's okay to want to gleefully slaughter.
you forgot evangelical Republicans


In which case... what would they do for entertainment on the Fark Politics tab?
 
2013-01-27 10:27:07 PM

Hollie Maea: / lighten up, Frances. Just needling you for white knighting these guys.


Again, see the first thing I posted. It's possible to disagree with the judges while not fellating one side or the other. Step away from the politics tab every once in a while: not everything is an our-side vs. their-side dichotomy. It's possible for issues to be more complicated.
 
2013-01-27 10:27:11 PM
Hey! I have bought stuff from Newegg thru eBay and I can attest to the fact that they do indeed sell things!

/csb
 
2013-01-27 10:28:57 PM

Voiceofreason01: Theaetetus: I read the article, but more importantly, I read the Federal Circuit decision. Did you read that? No. Shiat, that's like going to Fox News for your journalism and claiming you're better informed than the researchers involved.

I skimmed the decision and didn't see where there was any claim that Soverain was actually using these patents. In fact the original patents were issued for software that is hopelessly antiquated.

/kinda looks like you didn't read the article OR the Federal Circuit decision


They came out with a new version in 2007, well after they bought Open Market. I know that's a while in software terms, but it's not the same thing as if they shut down production in 2000 like you're claiming.
 
2013-01-27 10:32:57 PM
Hah, my first thought after reading the article was "I bet Theaetetus is in the Fark thread, desperately white-knighting these patent-trolling assholes".
Do you have like a bat-signal or something? Do you surf fark 24 hours a day on the off chance a patent troll needs defending?
 
2013-01-27 10:34:28 PM
Ahh, Newegg. The hardware hub of all the universe.

/Well done, Newegg. Well done.
 
2013-01-27 10:35:22 PM
I know Farkers like to hate on patent trolls but I'm actually more curious about this infamous East Texas district that gives them the mana to fight these annoying battles.

I realize you can't erase East Texas but how long and what would it take away their power to be so pro-patent troll?

/serious question
 
2013-01-27 10:36:18 PM

UsikFark: I like Newegg, but there are a few cases where Amazon really kicks their ass. I was looking at a laptop that was ~$200 cheaper on Amazon, same model and everything. Amazon shipping costs suck, though.


I used to always get my PC parts from NewEgg for years. They had great prices compared to the brick and mortar stores, and I think there was only one time I ever had a defective product from them and their shipping was fast. CompUSA couldn't match them. But now Amazon just has the better prices on most things, and since I have Amazon Prime I get most things in two days free shipping.
 
2013-01-27 10:36:24 PM
Theaetetus:
They came out with a new version in 2007, well after they bought Open Market. I know that's a while in software terms, but it's not the same thing as if they shut down production in 2000 like you're claiming.

So they sued based on a patent they weren't using, then built new software(by necessity using completely new technology) then claimed "oh yeah see we were using it the whole time". Bullshiat. These patents should never have been issued in the first place(obvious, prior art) and the patents were based on a completely different system than what NewEgg(and every other online retailer) uses. It would be like Henry Ford suing every Formula One team because the Model T and F1 cars are both four wheeled vehicles that a person can ride in.
 
2013-01-27 10:36:59 PM

Theaetetus: I read the article, but more importantly, I read the Federal Circuit decision. Did you read that? No. Shiat, that's like going to Fox News for your journalism and claiming you're better informed than the researchers involved.


Congrats, you read the article and the decision and failed to understand anything in it. That's like Fox News, refusing to let facts stand in the way of spouting misunderstandings and fabrications. Soverain didn't sell anything: not actual products, and not systems either. They didn't have a single customer, aside from those who bought new licenses to avoid being sued. Not that that mattered in regards to the decision.
 
2013-01-27 10:37:03 PM

UsikFark: I like Newegg, but there are a few cases where Amazon really kicks their ass. I was looking at a laptop that was ~$200 cheaper on Amazon, same model and everything. Amazon shipping costs suck, though.


What you're paying for on Newegg is the support as much as the product. If I have a problem with something I bought from Newegg, 95% of the time I can return it without any issue at all. Try doing that on Amazon.

Now whether or not it's worth that increased cost differs on the product. $200 difference on a laptop might make it worth it, but I say that as someone who is handy with computers.

Famous Thamas: Theaetetus: Theeng: patent troll
ThatBillmanGuy: patent trolls
JesseL: Patent trolls
Satanic_Hamster: patent trolls

You guys all know that Soverain is really just the company that bought OpenMarket, but still sells their product, right? It's like if GlobalCorp bought Intel and kept cranking out chips - GlobalCorp wouldn't be a "troll" in any usual sense of the word.

Soverain bought the patents from a VC firm that acquired them from OpenMarket. They did not acquire OpenMarket and continue their business model.

If your "GlobalCorp" bought Intel and continued making chips, they wouldn't be a patent troll. If "GlobalCorp" bought Intel's patent portfolio, stopped making chips, and sued anyone that made anything remotely like it, they'd be a patent troll, just like Soverain.


Ursines reoccuring.
 
2013-01-27 10:37:08 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Internet Tough Guy:
This won't stop patent trolls but will deter them. Until we actually start killing them (literally, go to their offices in real life and shoot every mother farker there) this will continue.


i.stack.imgur.com
 
2013-01-27 10:39:05 PM

Gunther: Hah, my first thought after reading the article was "I bet Theaetetus is in the Fark thread, desperately white-knighting these patent-trolling assholes".
Do you have like a bat-signal or something? Do you surf fark 24 hours a day on the off chance a patent troll needs defending?


Considering Theaetetus is the subject matter expert here.....

/not a lawyer
 
2013-01-27 10:39:36 PM
Copying Drew's "how about jack shiat and go fark your selves"
 
2013-01-27 10:39:40 PM

Theaetetus: Theeng: patent troll
ThatBillmanGuy: patent trolls
JesseL: Patent trolls
Satanic_Hamster: patent trolls

You guys all know that Soverain is really just the company that bought OpenMarket, but still sells their product, right? It's like if GlobalCorp bought Intel and kept cranking out chips - GlobalCorp wouldn't be a "troll" in any usual sense of the word.


And with that, you have ounce and for all confirmed that you either work for a patent troll directly, were hired to run internet pr for them, or just have absolutely no credibility on the topic.

Thanks, because I wasn't quite sure if you were a shill, or just well-intentioned and stupid.
 
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