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(Slate)   In an attempt to make you forget about everything else he has said, Silvio Berlusconi claims Mussolini wasn't so bad. Godwini's law has just been invoked   (slate.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, Berlusconi, Mussolini, Jewish laws, Berlusconi claims  
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2128 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jan 2013 at 8:16 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-28 04:35:53 AM  
I want to see Trump and Berlusconi in a cage match. We'd all win.
 
2013-01-28 04:37:04 AM  

miniflea: If only there were some political ideology that actively encouraged wrong information that made the state look good. Getting things right is important.


I don't think that a commonly used remark about Mussolini "making the trains run on time" is mission-critical, dearie. Certainly not when I was commenting to someone laboring under the delusion that Mussolini was "a pretty decent leader." I'm kind of concerned that you seem to think that that was a more essential correction than fixing a much longer post about how much good Mussolini did for Italy.
 
2013-01-28 08:05:38 AM  

JackCanuck: rattchett: But he did ally with Hitler

So did the rest of Europe sans Britain and France, on account of the threat posed by a rapidly industrializing and militarizing Soviet Union.

rattchett: he was weak

He was very popular domestically and internationally. I fail to see how you could call him a weak leader.

rattchett: he assisted in the final solution

Italy was a better place to be a Jew than much of the rest of Europe, and the deportation of Jews only occurred in German-occupied Italy following the Italian-Allied armistice. Mussolini was a hostage at this point.

rattchett: he was a racist

Mussolini: Race? It is a feeling, not a reality. Ninety-five per cent, at least. Nothing will ever make me believe that biologically pure races can be shown to exist today.... National pride has no need of the delirium of race.

rattchett: his military was pathetic and basically lost every battle it ever participated in

This myth is the result of British and German propaganda. German leaders often blamed their failures on the quality of Italian troops. Admittedly, Italy lacked the quality of equipment of other countries, but that is to be expected from a minor power, just as no one expected Romania, China, or Turkey to produce world-class armour or arms.

rattchett: he invaded Ethiopia

How is this any different from the atrocities committed by the other European powers in the Scramble for Africa, or the crimes they were then-currently committing against their subjugated populaces? Italy's actions in Ethiopia were brutal, but war is brutal, and the Italians never participated in the wanton meaningless slaughter perpetrated in Belgian, yes Belgian, Congo. Their is far more blood on the hands of Belgium's leaders of the era than Mussolini.

rattchett: El Duce was a douche.

You think you're clever, but that is one of the most childish lines I've ever read.

Mussolini was not a monster, and in fact was a pretty decent leader. He increased agricultural output, reduced malaria, improved the Italian economy, reduced the influence of the mafia, and restored Italian national pride. Furthermore, he guaranteed Austrian independence until it was clear that he would have no support from Britain or France, and was one of the few European leaders to actively stand against Hitler.


Totally childish line. No argument there. I also would agree that he brought about some positive changes in Italy. However I do not agree with your interpretation of history - he was a racist and the inferiority of others was central to his philosophy.

He caused the Manifesto of Race to be passed in 1938 which took away the rights of Jews. If he did not believe in the racist laws he passed, and if it was done to appease the Nazis, he was weak for doing so.

He murdered his political opponents and he was a dictator who employed violence and torture to coerce compliance.

He colluded with the mafia; and

He used chemical weapons against Ethiopia.
 
2013-01-28 10:45:42 AM  

Gyrfalcon: miniflea: If only there were some political ideology that actively encouraged wrong information that made the state look good. Getting things right is important.

I don't think that a commonly used remark about Mussolini "making the trains run on time" is mission-critical, dearie. Certainly not when I was commenting to someone laboring under the delusion that Mussolini was "a pretty decent leader." I'm kind of concerned that you seem to think that that was a more essential correction than fixing a much longer post about how much good Mussolini did for Italy.


I never claimed it was more essential. I am kind of concerned that you think it is ok to repeat a falsehood that you appear to know is false. The fact that it is a 'commonly used remark' is all the more reason for it to be corrected. I maintain my position that getting things right is important, especially when discussing something as historically sensitive as facism. I was commenting on that aspect of your post alone.

And don't call me dearie, please. It is condescending.
 
2013-01-28 12:23:19 PM  
ciberido: That's a myth, actually. He didn't do a damn thing for the trains.

Gyrfalcon: Is there some kind of quirk that makes people have this need to correct every comedic tic and humorous comment in their writings? I mean, you read my whole post and that was the ONE THING you took out of it--that I made an inaccurate comment about Mussolini that referred to an unsourced (and probably apocryphal) quote about the trains? And you needed to come back here and fix that? Who the hell cares? (I mean, besides you, because you took tim ...


I'll explain it to you.

1) It's not easy for people to tell when you're joining and when you're serious, because this is a text-only medium. Unless you use some sort or irony mark or sarcasm font or tell people explicitly that you're joking, we can't really know.

2) It's not my job to respond to your post in its entirety. I get to respond to as much or as little of it as I like.

3) As for who the hell cares, I cared enough to take the time to make that post. That's really the only person who needs to care.

Sorry if that bothers you, but that's kinda how Fark works.

/The introductory clause of the previous sentence was sarcastic.
 
2013-01-28 02:47:30 PM  
Mussolini was hilarious.

I love reading about him.

Best dictator ever!
 
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