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(1 Corinthians 7:5)   And God spoke and saith, "have a lot of sex to keep Satan away." And lo, Bible study just got awesome   (biblegateway.com ) divider line
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13953 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jan 2013 at 8:29 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-01-27 04:45:31 PM  
5 votes:
Out of context Bible quotes get greenlights now?
2013-01-27 09:17:06 PM  
4 votes:
Yeah, the fact that parts of the Bible are sex positive, (in the specific context of a heterosexual marriage where the husband is in charge) is not exactly a secret. However, Paul was still pretty negative about sex in general, and was massively hung up on standards of sexual purity. A few verses later in Chapter 7, he says:

Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.

......

I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs-how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world-how he can please his wife and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit.

......

So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better.


Paul, like most of the apostles in the first century, believed that the world was about to end, and that therefore a Christian should devote his whole life to evangelism and remaining holy until the end came. Paul in particular believed that marriage was at best a distraction from serving God, but was an acceptable compromise if it prevented people from lusting or having premarital sex. These verses fetishizing celibacy are among those considered to be a rationale for the mandatory celibacy of the Catholic priesthood and monastic orders. Paul here is pretty clear that your sex drive is a weakness, and that those who are able to suppress it to serve God are doing better than those who aren't. Even leaving out the myriad scandals that the Catholic church has been involved in, I still shudder to think of the lives that have by reluctantly deciding that complete abstinence is a higher calling.

Moreover, in the preceding two chapters, Paul lays down a pretty hard line against anything he blanketly terms "sexual immorality," ("pornia" in Greek.) In chapter 6 (I'm excerpting), he says:

....Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men [the exact context/translation here may or may not be referring to temple prostitution] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.....

...The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never!

...Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.


And, back in chapter 5, Paul describes how to deal with fellow Christians who are "sexually immoral:"

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

So, while Paul may have thought that married sex was "just okay," he was pretty adamant that any kind of non-married sex was the moral equivalent of idolatry or thievery, and that as a Christian you ultimately have no rights over what you do with your own body. Moreover, he commanded his followers that anyone who didn't adhere to his purity code wasn't allowed into community unless they completely repented, and that until that time they were to be completely shunned. "Do not even eat with such people," he said. The instructions in 1 Corinthians have been used as a authoritarian bludgeon to marginalize and people for the last 2000 years. You'll have to excuse me if I don't get on-board with all the "hip" pastors who quote selectively from 1 Corinthians 7 so that they can boost attendance with with an "edgy" sermon series on "godly sex."
2013-01-28 07:58:01 AM  
3 votes:

TrojanRabbit: I suspect that verses like this, combined with others that set the husband as the final authority in the household, made it easier to justify laws in the West that defined spousal rape as a non-criminal act. Not a fan.


You might be surprised to find out that the Bible is actually quite a bit more progressive towards women than most other belief systems of the time (or even many today).

The Old Testament records quite a few feats of heroic women, and even has an entire book telling the story how one particular woman saved the Jews from annihilation. Then we get to Proverbs, which has quite a lot to say about good (and bad) women. Read Proverbs 31 and tell me that the ancient Jews didn't have great respect for their housewives.

Then we get to the New Testament, which flat out says that women and men are equal in God's eyes. Jesus frequently hung out with women, and there were several who were important to his ministry. Then Paul comes along, who writes passages like the one in this thread, saying that it's not only a man's duty to frequently sex up his wife, but to make sure she enjoys it ("due benevolence" is the phrase used in the KJV). He also says that husbands are to love their wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for it, i.e. total, self-sacrificing love, not possession. Reading between the lines there: guys, if you want the respect and obedience of your wife, you have to earn it. After that, he goes on to say that all church leaders must be married (I guess the Catholics missed that one...), because Lord knows the guy can't do the job by himself.
2013-01-27 09:06:07 PM  
3 votes:
if you read the stuff around that verse, it basically means the following:
yes, abstaining is good... it lets you focus on spiritual matters. however, depriving your spouse might drive them to sin, so don't do it.
2013-01-27 09:24:32 PM  
2 votes:

Martian_Astronomer: men who have sex with men


Also, as a quick aside on the homosexuality issue: My understanding of the liberal/progressive Christian view on these verses was that the Greek word that Paul uses to describe homosexual acts tends to imply homosexual acts that took place as part of pagan religious ceremonies, and not necessarily monogamous homosexual relationships. For the sake of argument I can concede that Paul may not have been familiar with the idea of loving gay relationships, but it's a tremendously irresponsible leap to then claim that Paul "totally would have been okay with it if he'd just known some gay people."
2013-01-27 09:26:35 PM  
1 vote:

Martian_Astronomer: I still shudder to think of the lives that have been harmed by reluctantly deciding that complete abstinence is a higher calling.


Martian_Astronomer: The instructions in 1 Corinthians have been used as a authoritarian bludgeon to marginalize and control people for the last 2000 years.


I really need a personal copy editor.
2013-01-27 09:25:56 PM  
1 vote:
If Fark had some kind of Like/Insightful/Thumbs Up system I'd be clicking on it for Martian_Astronomer's post.
2013-01-27 09:19:24 PM  
1 vote:

Martian_Astronomer: Yeah, the fact that parts of the Bible are sex positive, (in the specific context of a heterosexual marriage where the husband is in charge) is not exactly a secret. However, Paul was still pretty negative about sex in general, and was massively hung up on standards of sexual purity. A few verses later in Chapter 7, he says:

Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.

......

I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs-how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world-how he can please his wife and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit.

......

So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better.

Paul, like most of the apostles in the first century, believed that the world was about to end, and that therefore a Christian should devote his whole life to evangelism and remaining holy until the end came. Paul in particular believed that marriage was at best a distraction from serving God, but was an acceptable compromise if it prevented people from lusting or having premarital sex. These verses fetishizing celibacy are among those considered to be a rationale for the mandatory celibacy of the Catholic priesthood and monastic orders. Paul here is pretty clear that your sex drive is a weakness, and that those who are able to suppress it to serve God are doing better than those ...


Of course, all of this depends on whether or not you care about what Paul has to say in the first place.

/I mostly do not.
2013-01-27 09:13:37 PM  
1 vote:

serial_crusher: Via Infinito: Donnchadha: Out of context Bible quotes get greenlights now?

Your comment reminds me of this. (Possibly NSFW)

Meh, while the imaginary guy in that video is an idiot, this particular quote pretty obviously applies to married couples.

I lke the parts after it though:
I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7But I wish everyone were single, just as I am. Yet each person has a special gift from God, of one kind or another.
8So I say to those who aren't married and to widows-it's better to stay unmarried, just as I am. 9But if they can't control themselves, they should go ahead and marry. It's better to marry than to burn with lust.

Is that where they got the idea for priests to be celibate?  Sounds like this guy just got tired of all the rejection.


Actually, I think the Catholic Church should have read past verse 8
2013-01-27 08:48:56 PM  
1 vote:
Jesus want you to dring good wine.

John 2:10 - A host always serves the best wine first," he said. "Then, when everyone has had a lot to drink, he brings out the less expensive wine. But you have kept the best until now!"
2013-01-27 08:47:16 PM  
1 vote:

whistleridge: The problem with taking the Bible literally is that you run into all sorts of contradictions. For example, you have the fun bits mentioned in the link, but you also have the bit that says:

"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it." 

Are  yougoing to make yourself a eunuch for Christ,  subby? Like this guy did?


There was a whole cult of eunuchs and suchlike in Russia and Poland around the middle of the 19th Century, if memory serves. They called themselves the "Skoptje" after their leader. Men had the whole package cut off, women had their labias removed and some cut off their breasts. They also refrained from sex. Somehow, they won enough converts to keep the cult going for 150 years despite never having kids. I don't see the attraction, myself.
2013-01-27 07:26:58 PM  
1 vote:
What a proponent of this divine edict might look like:

www.scene-stealers.com
2013-01-27 05:42:15 PM  
1 vote:
The problem with taking the Bible literally is that you run into all sorts of contradictions. For example, you have the fun bits mentioned in the link, but you also have the bit that says:

"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it." 

Are  yougoing to make yourself a eunuch for Christ,  subby? Like this guy did?
2013-01-27 05:37:21 PM  
1 vote:
Genesis 1:28 "...and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth..."

www.ladyofthecake.com

BUT WE DON'T WANT THE IRISH!
2013-01-27 05:23:10 PM  
1 vote:
lh6.googleusercontent.com

And to be fair, if Christina Hendricks is doing a reading...

lh4.googleusercontent.com
2013-01-27 04:52:27 PM  
1 vote:

Donnchadha: Out of context Bible quotes get greenlights now?


Your comment reminds me of this. (Possibly NSFW)
 
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