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(Chicago Trib)   Chicago, with the nation's strictest gun laws, would like to point out that 1 of the 7 homicides last night was a stabbing. No gun was used in that killing   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 451
    More: Sad, Chicago, stabbing, homicides, gun laws, stab wound, Chicago Police Department, Englewood  
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4577 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jan 2013 at 12:30 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-27 02:44:59 PM  
I went to Cabelas the other day and asked where the assault rifle section was, get this, they didn't have an assault rifle section or even an assault weapon section.

On the other side if we pass more gun laws and become more like Chicago won't that make us less safe just like Chicago?
 
2013-01-27 02:45:22 PM  

rga184: stirfrybry: bronyaur1: The NRA dummies keep pounding the pathetic argument that because Chicago has bad gun violence problems and its leaders have pursued gun restrictions, therefore the pursuit of gun restrictions causes gun violence.

If you are so dumb and incapable of logical thought that you sign onto - let alone repeat talking points supporting - this argument, then you might just be (a) too stupid to breed, (b) a Fox viewer, and (c) a redneck.

Idiot. The take-away is that gun control is ineffective, not that it causes crime. Lame strawman is lame

How do we know what the rate of gun crime would have been without gun control laws though? Is there a control city to test the null hypothesis against?

Gun laws in cities, or even states are almost pointless. You can drive an hour to Kenosha from chicago and buy a gun there. Or better yet, go to Gary and pick one up at a pawn shop. We need gun control on a national level and laws preventing against people bringing in guns from elsewhere, and at least a couple of decades for the supply on the street to dwindle down before we see a dent in gun crime.

Also, there needs to be legislation to punish gun owners who knowingly or negligently sold their gun to a criminal or had their gun stolen by a criminal because they didn't keep it safe. Not suggesting across the board punishment for every original gun owner of a weapon that was later used in a crime, but rather those that fail to prove due diligence in selling their gun to somebody legal (consignment at gun shops that perform background checks, maybe?), or keeping their gun in a way that doesn't make it easily obtainable by a robber or burglar.

Of course, the limits placed on enforcement by thee ATF need to be lifted. Conservatives parrot the "enforce current laws" line, but behind the scenes have hobbled the ATF to the point that they can't even have gun shops perform inventory checks. FFS, this is not an industry that is interested in anybody's safety. The ...


So... if your car is stolen out of your garage and someone is killed with it... you'll accept civil responsibility?
 
2013-01-27 02:46:09 PM  
How big were the clips on the 6 guns?
 
2013-01-27 02:46:35 PM  
Clearly the solution is to give every man, woman, and child in Chicago an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine.

Things will be much safer when people have the ability to defend themselves when they've found themselves in any situation that makes them uncomfortable.
 
2013-01-27 02:47:35 PM  

here to help: Mikey1969: here to help: So gun rights people are now using outright, unabashed racism to defend their cause?

WTF?!

What are you talking about? I didn't see "outright, unabashed racism" here, who posted it?

You're right. I'm the racist for noticing the racism.
If you just happen to have a hefty ignore list then my apologies.


No, I'm serious. I saw a few people talk abut things like too many unwed mothers, but I didn't see one where someone said "It's because of all the n**gers!", I was just asking who brought it up.
 
2013-01-27 02:47:57 PM  

3StratMan: lostcat: 3StratMan: Mrtraveler01: Mrbogey: Mrtraveler01: No you don't, it's just a toy. I'm perfectly fine with you guys wanting to keep them but stop kidding me telling me you need these for self-defense or hunting and just tell me it's a toy.

Why do you think of it as a toy?

You need an Assault Rifle for home defense when a shotgun does the same job?

You need an assault rifle for hunting? What on earth are you hunting that requires a weapon as powerful as that?

#1: What the hell gives ANYONE the right to tell another person what they can or can't use to protect themselves and their family? How that fark is it anyone's business what I choose to use to defend myself?

#2: You obviously have NO CLUE about the weapons that you live in fear of. A .223 round, while useful for hunting coyotes, smaller game, and yes, DEER as well, is still far weaker than almost all hunting rifle rounds that most hunters use. Give a 300 WinMag round a try sometime. Makes a .223 seem like Ralphie's eye remover.

I want to use a tactical nuke to defend my family.

You got a problem with that?

Ha ha. Good one. Try again.


So you're saying that we shouldn't have what we can afford, but rather what you deem 'the minimum required' to accomplish the task? So... go ahead and turn in your smartphone for a landline, turn in your fancy computer for a model from 10 years ago, and turn in your car for one that has 65 miles an hour as a maximum possible speed.
There's a word for the government declaring what people are and aren't allowed to have, based on what the government thinks they need: Communism.
 
2013-01-27 02:48:25 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: But if there's 'no difference', then why not just pistols then? It'd save us a lot of money right there.


The pistol is the fallback weapon due to it being light, portable, and good for close quarters. However, a pistol sucks at laying down suppressive fire due to the small magazine and it sucks for distant shooting.

There's an effective difference between the weapons that is situational but there is little to no functional difference.
 
2013-01-27 02:48:27 PM  

Securitywyrm: You have a car that can go 120 mph? What on earth do you need a car that can go 120 mph for, the speed limit is 65. You should be okay with your car having a regulator installed that prevents it from going faster than 65 mph.


Yes, I can have a big black Mustang that can go insane miles per hour on the freeway. Here in the Republican Utopia of Greater Ohio, however, I have to pay an auto insurer crazy amounts of money for the privilege of driving said vehicle on our motorways. Amazingly enough, my right to drive whatever speed I want comes with the responsibility of having to pay through my nose on auto insurance.

So when do we get gun insurance laws? Higher rates for weapons at greater risk to cause damage. Its only fair.
 
2013-01-27 02:49:15 PM  

Somacandra: Gee, its almost as if the reality of guns in an urban setting (where everyone is spatially compressed and differential social problems are thus magnified) is far different from the reality of guns in a rural setting.


Link

Nay, for chicago it is drugs and sausage as the cause of murders.
 
2013-01-27 02:49:20 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: 3StratMan: Actually... soldiers are quite often issued both handguns AND M16's.

But if there's 'no difference', then why not just pistols then? It'd save us a lot of money right there.


Actually the Marines gave up firearms altogether in 2011. Fark gun advocates explained to them that guns are simply one possible tool- if someone wants to kill, they will always find a weapon.

The Army is winding down their use and will be done handguns and rifles by 2016.
 
2013-01-27 02:51:05 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: So when do we get gun insurance laws? Higher rates for weapons at greater risk to cause damage. Its only fair.


When we can buy any weapon we want with no restriction.

Though to be fair, the AR-15 would have the cheapest rate due to its lack of use in most crimes.
 
2013-01-27 02:51:28 PM  

jaytkay: Actually the Marines gave up firearms altogether in 2011. Fark gun advocates explained to them that guns are simply one possible tool- if someone wants to kill, they will always find a weapon.

The Army is winding down their use and will be done handguns and rifles by 2016.


I was responding to this:

Steve McQueen's Motorcycle: There is no difference between an AR-15 and just about any gas operated handgun.


Agree or disagree?
 
2013-01-27 02:51:46 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Securitywyrm: You have a car that can go 120 mph? What on earth do you need a car that can go 120 mph for, the speed limit is 65. You should be okay with your car having a regulator installed that prevents it from going faster than 65 mph.

Yes, I can have a big black Mustang that can go insane miles per hour on the freeway. Here in the Republican Utopia of Greater Ohio, however, I have to pay an auto insurer crazy amounts of money for the privilege of driving said vehicle on our motorways. Amazingly enough, my right to drive whatever speed I want comes with the responsibility of having to pay through my nose on auto insurance.

So when do we get gun insurance laws? Higher rates for weapons at greater risk to cause damage. Its only fair.


But that's not what you say you want. You want people limited to what you deem they 'need' to accomplish a job. You don't 'need' to go faster than 65 MPH, so you should stand by what you preach and agree to trade down to a little clunker car. It'll still get you there eventually, so you should have no problem with this.
 
2013-01-27 02:51:52 PM  
The nations largest outdoors show, Eastern Sports and Outdoors Show, was canceled by the promoters due to a boycott by an overwhelming majority of their vendors and celebrity presenters over their sudden ban on scary "assault rifles" and high capacity magazines in the weeks leading up to it.  The show would have brought in close to $80 million dollars in a couple weeks to Harrisburg PA but Reed Exhibitions made a stand and the people spoke.  Shut it right down.  The mayor of Harrisburg, PA is a whack job too after reading some of her quotes on it.  Glad she lost the money and hopefully the people will see it and vote her out of office next election.
 
2013-01-27 02:54:30 PM  

Mrtraveler01: gerrymander: bronyaur1: The NRA dummies Anyone with a brain will keep pounding the pathetic commonsense argument that because Chicago has bad gun violence problems and its leaders have pursued gun restrictions, therefore the pursuit of increasing gun restrictions causes will not reduce gun violence.

FTFY

But then you look at NYC and DC which have its murder numbers plummet to record levels even though they have strict gun laws as well.

It's almost as if the gun bans aren't the reason behind the rise in violent crimes in Chicago.


It actually stems from the RICO case against the largest gang in the city. They had too much control, and they only took out the top 20 members, which left a massive network of splintered cliques fighting for drug territory.
 
2013-01-27 02:55:08 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: I was responding to this:


I was emphasizing your point
 
2013-01-27 02:55:35 PM  
Hey Larch...
when my cousin lived in Switzerland (not sure what the law is now) every law-abiding head-of-household was REQUIRED to keep & maintain a fully automatic assault rifle and 200 rounds of ammo.
So, I guess the crime rate there is spiraling out of control?
(last I saw, they called in 3 cop cars for an illegally parked car with primer spots)
 
2013-01-27 02:56:09 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Mrbogey: Mrtraveler01: No you don't, it's just a toy. I'm perfectly fine with you guys wanting to keep them but stop kidding me telling me you need these for self-defense or hunting and just tell me it's a toy.

Why do you think of it as a toy?

You need an Assault Rifle for home defense when a shotgun does the same job?

You need an assault rifle for hunting? What on earth are you hunting that requires a weapon as powerful as that?


When you keep referring to light sporting rifles as "assault rifles" it kind of clouds the issue.
 
2013-01-27 02:56:12 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Securitywyrm: You have a car that can go 120 mph? What on earth do you need a car that can go 120 mph for, the speed limit is 65. You should be okay with your car having a regulator installed that prevents it from going faster than 65 mph.

Yes, I can have a big black Mustang that can go insane miles per hour on the freeway. Here in the Republican Utopia of Greater Ohio, however, I have to pay an auto insurer crazy amounts of money for the privilege of driving said vehicle on our motorways. Amazingly enough, my right to drive whatever speed I want comes with the responsibility of having to pay through my nose on auto insurance.

So when do we get gun insurance laws? Higher rates for weapons at greater risk to cause damage. Its only fair.


Gun grab, power grab, and money grab- all rolled into one. Liberals at their finest.
 
2013-01-27 02:58:11 PM  

Tyee: I went to Cabelas the other day and asked where the assault rifle section was, get this, they didn't have an assault rifle section or even an assault weapon section.

On the other side if we pass more gun laws and become more like Chicago won't that make us less safe just like Chicago?


There is a phrase for pendants like you. "Thread counters". It makes responsible and knowledgable gun owners cring to hear the tired old mantra that gun control advocates just don't understand.

STFU

You're not helping.
 
2013-01-27 02:58:49 PM  

The Rest Are Bait: The nations largest outdoors show, Eastern Sports and Outdoors Show, was canceled by the promoters due to a boycot...The show would have brought in close to $80 million dollars in a couple weeks to Harrisburg PA...


And Sandy Hook has led to a nationwide run on AR-15s and ammo. Gun shops are reporting astounding increases in sales.

Moar Sandy Hooks!

Prosperity demands it! Good job gun enthusiasts!
 
2013-01-27 02:59:46 PM  
I think the real news is the fact there was only 7 homicides last night in Chicago.
 
2013-01-27 03:00:51 PM  
As soon as I got to "nation's strictest gun laws" I could tell subby was more interested in bolstering presuppositions than in honest analysis of our nation's problems.
 
2013-01-27 03:01:25 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: jaytkay: Actually the Marines gave up firearms altogether in 2011. Fark gun advocates explained to them that guns are simply one possible tool- if someone wants to kill, they will always find a weapon.

The Army is winding down their use and will be done handguns and rifles by 2016.

I was responding to this:

Steve McQueen's Motorcycle: There is no difference between an AR-15 and just about any gas operated handgun.

Agree or disagree?


My point is 100% accurate and still stands. If it makes you feel better I will add one word to the sentence to make it perfectly clear to you.

There is no functional difference between an AR-15 and just about any gas operated handgun.

The comment was made in reference to the made up, bullshiat term of "assault weapon" the media likes to throw around and people like yourself like to parrot.

How about answering my question?:

As a percentage, how many crimes were committed with any type of rifle over the past several years?
 
2013-01-27 03:01:54 PM  
Sorry, Securitywyrm... I kinda like the old version..
"....the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
Yes, this was written in the time of muskets...but EVERYBODY had a musket...
just what part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?
 
2013-01-27 03:03:36 PM  

jaytkay: The Rest Are Bait: The nations largest outdoors show, Eastern Sports and Outdoors Show, was canceled by the promoters due to a boycot...The show would have brought in close to $80 million dollars in a couple weeks to Harrisburg PA...

And Sandy Hook has led to a nationwide run on AR-15s and ammo. Gun shops are reporting astounding increases in sales.

Moar Sandy Hooks!

Prosperity demands it! Good job gun enthusiasts!


The thing is, it's not a gun show out right.  There is more outfitters, bow hunting, taxidermy, atv, boat, fishing and shamwow dealers than actual gun dealers at that show.  Hell Smith and Wesson doesn't even sell anything there but only showcases their new lineup if I remember correctly.  Reed runs the SHOT show in Las Vegas, an industry trade show for firearms, they let that one go on just a couple weeks ago.  I can't explain why.
 
2013-01-27 03:07:20 PM  
Can any anti-gun nuts show me where in the constitution it says that the arms which the ownership of, shall not be infringed upon, have to be arms for the purpose of hunting?

Hunting was never the given reason for the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Why are you asking those who want not to be infringed upon to justify what they need to hunt with?
 
2013-01-27 03:07:33 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Resident Muslim: 2) "I would rather a thousand guilty men walk free than one innocent man get executed". Again, no. a) as long as juries(sp?) know what is at stake, they would be less likely to convict a person for murder with circumstantial evidence only to have the person who was supposed to have been killed walk into the scene b) letting the guilty 1000 men walk free will only encourage them to act again (see repeat offenders)
3) once criminals understand it is literally their neck on the line -not 3 hots and a cot- murders will drop. But pleeeease, none of this "dies of old age on death row"

Hi, welcome to Earth. Unlike your home world of Vulcan, human beings are irrational illogical creatures who'll do such crazy things as crimes of passion, prosecute beyond the fullest extent to buff the ol' resume, and find guilty due to inherent biases, faulty logic, or whether or not the defendent was wearing white after Labor Day. I know, I know, it sounds crazy, Mr. Spock, but we really are a bunch of McCoys down here.

Aren't you tired of living with bars on your windows and the criminals walking free?

Aren't you tired of living with the fear of one wrong misstep resulting in literally losing your head?

Been there, done that, got tired of it, fixed it. Welcome to the 21st century, you can join us at any time.


Thanks for replying.
I will take your post at face value at try to reply, though forgive me to say you rambled more than I.
:)
Re-Spock: I have been accused of being a Vulcan. Also have been accused of being too sensitive. I blame logic and putting yourself in other people's shoes.
Re-crime of passion: you kill someone, you get killed. I don't care if you did it out of 'love'. I also might link crimes of passion to domestic abuse, but that sounds too much like a straw man, so I digress.
Re- prosecutors: falsify evidence that gets someone killed? Have a seat right over there on the electric chair.
Re-faulty logic/biases: forgive me for not pointing that I meant clear cases of murder, ie, five witnesses, that's him right there on cc tv shooting the clerk...etc. not "he had enough time to leave the party he planned so well, kill the victim and get back to the party and pretend nothing happened.
Re-losing my head: sorry, didn't get that point.
Re-21st century: do you really think we are that civilised? Come a long way? Take a look at the world around you. How many needless deaths? Rapes? Torture? Sorry to say, this century looks too similar to others before it.

Again, I wish it wasn't so, but when criminals go "what's the worse that can happen?" and it doesn't seem so bad...expect more of this stuff.

/again, apologies for rambling and/or completely missing the point //slashies within slashies///
 
2013-01-27 03:08:06 PM  

Steve McQueen's Motorcycle: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: jaytkay: Actually the Marines gave up firearms altogether in 2011. Fark gun advocates explained to them that guns are simply one possible tool- if someone wants to kill, they will always find a weapon.

The Army is winding down their use and will be done handguns and rifles by 2016.

I was responding to this:

Steve McQueen's Motorcycle: There is no difference between an AR-15 and just about any gas operated handgun.

Agree or disagree?

My point is 100% accurate and still stands. If it makes you feel better I will add one word to the sentence to make it perfectly clear to you.

There is no functional difference between an AR-15 and just about any gas operated handgun.

The comment was made in reference to the made up, bullshiat term of "assault weapon" the media likes to throw around and people like yourself like to parrot.

How about answering my question?:

As a percentage, how many crimes were committed with any type of rifle over the past several years?


Oh how cute, another thread counter. Don't you need to get back on the gunsmithing boards to argue optimal trigger pull. I am sure they are missing you.
 
2013-01-27 03:09:10 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Chicago - 2.7 million population - 506 homicides

Detroit - 705,000 population - 411 homicides


Interesting. Louisville, Ky has a city-county population of about 740,000, and in 2012 there were less than 60 murders.
 
2013-01-27 03:09:37 PM  
Wow, yet another reason to dislike Chicago. Moran gun laws, highest sales tax, high crime, bad weather and cubs fans.

Chicago is mahhh kind of town, it is!
 
2013-01-27 03:10:11 PM  

Mrtraveler01: You need an Assault Rifle for home defense when a shotgun does the same job?

You need an assault rifle for hunting? What on earth are you hunting that requires a weapon as powerful as that?


If an AR-15 is not necessary for self-defense, than why does every government agency own a bunch of them? Why do 2 out of every 5 patrol officers in my city have them in their cars to respond to calls where the suspect is seen with a weapon (*any* weapon, including knives)?

There are valid arguments to be made that civilians don't need the same firepower as the military (2nd Amendment arguments and all), but shouldn't the spirit of the 2nd Amendment at least provide civilians armed parity with civilian police departments?

Police are the ones with a history of suppressing citizens and violating their rights, and they seem to be arming themselves with ever greater levels of force, even though the rate of violent crime has fallen 50% since 1991.

assets.nydailynews.com

police-state.net

www.police-state.net
 
2013-01-27 03:10:25 PM  

The Rest Are Bait: jaytkay: The Rest Are Bait: The nations largest outdoors show, Eastern Sports and Outdoors Show, was canceled by the promoters due to a boycot...The show would have brought in close to $80 million dollars in a couple weeks to Harrisburg PA...

And Sandy Hook has led to a nationwide run on AR-15s and ammo. Gun shops are reporting astounding increases in sales.

Moar Sandy Hooks!

Prosperity demands it! Good job gun enthusiasts!

The thing is, it's not a gun show out right.  There is more outfitters, bow hunting, taxidermy, atv, boat, fishing and shamwow dealers than actual gun dealers at that show.  Hell Smith and Wesson doesn't even sell anything there but only showcases their new lineup if I remember correctly.  Reed runs the SHOT show in Las Vegas, an industry trade show for firearms, they let that one go on just a couple weeks ago.  I can't explain why.


There are no gun sales at SHOT, and access is restricted for the general public. Also, many of the attendees represent various law enforcement and other government agencies.
 
2013-01-27 03:11:14 PM  

bronyaur1: Chicago has bad gun violence problems and its leaders have pursued gun restrictions, therefore the pursuit of gun restrictions causes gun violence.


No, but gun restrictions obviously haven't had much effect on gun problems.
 
2013-01-27 03:15:01 PM  

dr-shotgun: Mrtraveler01: You need an Assault Rifle for home defense when a shotgun does the same job?

You need an assault rifle for hunting? What on earth are you hunting that requires a weapon as powerful as that?

If an AR-15 is not necessary for self-defense, than why does every government agency own a bunch of them? Why do 2 out of every 5 patrol officers in my city have them in their cars to respond to calls where the suspect is seen with a weapon (*any* weapon, including knives)?

There are valid arguments to be made that civilians don't need the same firepower as the military (2nd Amendment arguments and all), but shouldn't the spirit of the 2nd Amendment at least provide civilians armed parity with civilian police departments?

Police are the ones with a history of suppressing citizens and violating their rights, and they seem to be arming themselves with ever greater levels of force, even though the rate of violent crime has fallen 50% since 1991.

[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x474]

[police-state.net image 440x330]

[www.police-state.net image 410x350]


It feels like people are missing a huge point.

Police are armed because they are enforcing laws.

The police don't make the laws. Governments make laws.

If you don't like the laws you don't buy a gun and start shooting police officers when they try to arrest you for breaking it.

If you don't like the law you go to your representatives in government and explain to them why the law is a bad idea.

Did they stop teaching Civics in public schools or something?
 
2013-01-27 03:15:29 PM  
Nothing to see here. Chicago's self imposed population control. The sooner they all kill each other, the sooner we can go in and build some fine homes.
 
2013-01-27 03:19:17 PM  

whatshisname: stirfrybry: Idiot. The take-away is that gun control is ineffective,

I think the take-away here is that gun control is ineffective when it's attempted in a small area of a country full of guns.


found this on the first page. can leave thread happy
 
2013-01-27 03:19:40 PM  

Greylight: Oh how cute, another thread counter.


It is one of the most important facts that "assault weapon" ban proponents hates to hear.

A ban will have almost ZERO effect on gun violence.

Why do you immediately dismiss it?

And I am hardly a gun nut. I own several but I rarely use them.

I will however speak out for the basic, very specifically spelled out right my fellow citizens have to own such if they so desire.
 
2013-01-27 03:19:59 PM  

lostcat: It feels like people are missing a huge point.Police are armed because they are enforcing laws.The police don't make the laws. Governments make laws.If you don't like the laws you don't buy a gun and start shooting police officers when they try to arrest you for breaking it.If you don't like the law you go to your representatives in government and explain to them why the law is a bad idea.Did they stop teaching Civics in public schools or something?


People like you are so farking cute. It's becoming a rarity to see this sort of naiveté on display, but when it happens, I just say, "AWWW, that's adorable."
 
2013-01-27 03:20:46 PM  

lostcat: It feels like people are missing a huge point.

Police are armed because they are enforcing laws.

The police don't make the laws. Governments make laws.

If you don't like the laws you don't buy a gun and start shooting police officers when they try to arrest you for breaking it.

If you don't like the law you go to your representatives in government and explain to them why the law is a bad idea.

Did they stop teaching Civics in public schools or something?


You assume that the political process in this country is stable and free of corruption. You also presume that folks have any serious choice in the candidates proffered for office, when in fact the two party system leads to folks having to weigh massive tradeoffs with binary decisions. You also assume an engaged and informed electorate. None of these things are true, nor have they been for the last 15-20 years (our system always had issues, but never the scope or scale of special interest influence and electoral apathy and ignorance that we have now).
 
2013-01-27 03:21:03 PM  

Tyee: On the other side if we pass more gun laws and become more like Chicago won't that make us less safe just like Chicago?


Not necessarily, we could just become like DC and New York City which are recording some of it's lowest murder numbers in years.
 
2013-01-27 03:23:06 PM  
lostcat:
It feels like people are missing a huge point.

Police are armed because they are enforcing laws.


You're missing a huge point also.
Police are sworn to serve and protect. The police do not enforce laws, the courts enforce laws. Police apprehend suspected violators of the law, they protect citizens but always in a reactionary way rather than a proactive way.
 
2013-01-27 03:23:16 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Most of Africa has no gun laws and little taxes, let's move there


Most of wish you would.
 
2013-01-27 03:26:06 PM  

GoldSpider: bronyaur1: Chicago has bad gun violence problems and its leaders have pursued gun restrictions, therefore the pursuit of gun restrictions causes gun violence.

No, but gun restrictions obviously haven't had much effect on gun problems.




Please tell us how you know what Chicago's gun violence rate would have been had there NOT been these restrictions. THEN you can make the claim that they have not had much effect.
 
2013-01-27 03:26:12 PM  

NeoCortex42: Securitywyrm: Why do "Gun-nuts" refuse to accept any sort of restriction? Because the anti-gun lobby will NEVER stop pushing for more restrictions. Even if they agree that the restrictions are reasonable, the people pushing for the restrictions will steamroll past the point of 'reasonable.'

I propose we re-write the 2nd amendment to the following

No restriction placed upon the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall exceed the restriction placed upon law enforcement within the country."

After all, a police officer has no greater legal authority to use deadly force to protect their life than any other law-abiding citizen. Also if you want police officers to be 'better armed' than the people they are supposed to 'protect and serve', namely law-abiding citizens, then the role of the police must be oppression rather than protection. If the police can't have 'assault rifles' then neither can you. If the police can have a handgun, then you can too.

How's that? You'll find these 'gun nuts' willing to give up their 'assault rifles' under such a condition, because there is a standard that adjusts with the times.

Except the average person is generally trying to avoid dangerous situations and has the gun as a method of last resort. The law enforcement officer is specifically meant to put himself in more dangerous situations so that the average citizen doesn't have to. I'm fine with cops and military having more powerful weapons than civilians.


Yet the average person is much more likely to visited with unsought violence because criminals look for victims, not opponents.
 
2013-01-27 03:29:37 PM  

Steve McQueen's Motorcycle: There is no functional difference between an AR-15 and just about any gas operated handgun.


For anyone doesn't get the joke that I think Steve seems to be trying to make, there are no gas operated handguns.

Now back to your regular thread.

// yes, I am aware that there are a tiny number of gas powered handguns that have been made for novelty purposes through the years. But nobody uses them for anything but showing their friends the crazy Frankenstein toy they have...
 
2013-01-27 03:29:55 PM  
Oh... I have to add one more comment, larch....
in the past 20 years I have been in 3 different situations where having a firearm might have been a good idea. In all of those situations, merely displaying said firearm and saying "get out" (or words to that effect - I admit I may have used a few profanities) were sufficient to make the unwanted person(s) to leave the vicinity of my home.
Strangely enough, I was somewhat reluctant to relay to the local authorities what had transpired.
(hmmm.... why might that be?)
As my step-mom would say... "alles ist gut"
basically...it's cool...shut up
And this is the America I want...
Let me do my thing... it's all inside my home; no one is being harmed; no one is having their property taken against their will...I worked for all this stuff... why should they take it?
 
2013-01-27 03:33:33 PM  

Fark It: The Rest Are Bait: jaytkay: The Rest Are Bait: The nations largest outdoors show, Eastern Sports and Outdoors Show, was canceled by the promoters due to a boycot...The show would have brought in close to $80 million dollars in a couple weeks to Harrisburg PA...

And Sandy Hook has led to a nationwide run on AR-15s and ammo. Gun shops are reporting astounding increases in sales.

Moar Sandy Hooks!

Prosperity demands it! Good job gun enthusiasts!

The thing is, it's not a gun show out right.  There is more outfitters, bow hunting, taxidermy, atv, boat, fishing and shamwow dealers than actual gun dealers at that show.  Hell Smith and Wesson doesn't even sell anything there but only showcases their new lineup if I remember correctly.  Reed runs the SHOT show in Las Vegas, an industry trade show for firearms, they let that one go on just a couple weeks ago.  I can't explain why.

There are no gun sales at SHOT, and access is restricted for the general public. Also, many of the attendees represent various law enforcement and other government agencies.


On one hand they are willing to profit off of them and on the other they claim a moral high round.  Hypocrites.  Reed is also in danger of loosing out on the SHOT show over the Harrisburg incident.  The NSSF wrote that they are considering using a different exhibitor.
 
2013-01-27 03:35:40 PM  

Steve McQueen's Motorcycle: Greylight: Oh how cute, another thread counter.

It is one of the most important facts that "assault weapon" ban proponents hates to hear.

A ban will have almost ZERO effect on gun violence.

Why do you immediately dismiss it?

And I am hardly a gun nut. I own several but I rarely use them.

I will however speak out for the basic, very specifically spelled out right my fellow citizens have to own such if they so desire.


So as long as it's not a ban right? Or do any restrictions and special licensing requirements for any class of weapon (even if you disagree with the definition) trigger your objections?

Can you discuss from an educated point of view that gun laws and regulations are nessesary?
 
2013-01-27 03:35:43 PM  

The Larch: For anyone doesn't get the joke that I think Steve seems to be trying to make, there are no gas operated handguns.


Semi auto and full auto guns are almost all gas operated guns, but not gasoline Larch operated.
But that isn't what you meant is it?
 
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