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(The Eagle Tribune)   15 years after the great tobacco industry settlement less money than ever is being spent to stop smoking   (eagletribune.com) divider line 129
    More: Obvious, 46th state, chewing tobacco, proposed state, technical assistance, Philip Morris USA, Philip Morris, smoking cessation, state legislators  
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3497 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jan 2013 at 1:13 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-27 05:03:21 PM  

skinink: "Provide more added value into society..."

Oh, you mean like those non smokers who didn't get the flu shots this year and were sick and constantly out of the office, or the co-worker who has gastrointestinal problems that kept her out of the office for two months minimum, or the overweight co-worker who's had a running tab of medical issues lately? They all provided more added value into society.

You're farked.


I take my gastrointestinal problems to the office with me. It saves on babysitting, and nobody complains about my lengthy bathroom breaks.
 
2013-01-27 05:05:19 PM  

Ed Finnerty: Yeah, in MN they used most of the money to plug up unrelated debts and government projects.

In the heyday of the money, I called the new "Smoking Cessation Hotline" to see about getting some patches or gum as I did not have a lot of money and was trying to quit. They said they don't offer those but they would write down my name and number and call me every few days to remind me how important it is to quit smoking.

Money well spent.


THIS Arkansas quit line is the same way. I offered to pay them to quit calling me and being a pain in my ass, pissing me off so that I'd want a damn cigarette. Screw that waste of money.
 
2013-01-27 05:10:42 PM  

E5bie: Maybe smokers could fund their own quit smoking efforts with the money they used to spend on cigarettes.


no maybe they should fund it with their weed money
 
2013-01-27 05:10:48 PM  
I am a cheap bastard!! Thirty years ago when cigarettes hit $1 per pack I quit & have never looked back!!
 
2013-01-27 05:18:09 PM  
I own an ad agency and i wish I could get one of those cushy, useless gigs that are state funded to discourage smoking. Seems like those gigs always go to people with better connections than I have. I'm sure it's a coincidence.
 
2013-01-27 05:23:42 PM  

Time Traveler: I am a cheap bastard!! Thirty years ago when cigarettes hit $1 per pack I quit & have never looked back!!


i quit when they hit 0.79
 
2013-01-27 05:35:13 PM  
Liberal hypocrites run screaming out of a room if someone lights up a cigarette within 25 yards, they create more and more laws outlawing it but now smoking weed is some how ok and becoming more legal every day.
m5.paperblog.com
 
2013-01-27 05:36:39 PM  

mjbok: There was a group of us that were all friends growing up. We all drank, smoked weed, and some of us smoked. Some of us still did. There was one guy who never did any of that stuff. Never smoked, did drugs, or drank (much, he might have had a beer or two, here and there.) At the age of 25 went in for a routine doctor's visit. Lung cancer. Was dead two months later.

//The funny thing is if he had EVER smoked he would be a smoking statistic.


In the past couple/several decades, a lot of deaths have been contributed to smoking that weren't necessarily apt. Spent entire life in construction, in steel mills, grain bins, paint manufacturers, and ripping out asbestos? At age 98? Ah, he smoked cigarettes, that's the cause!

From what I've read, it's more about genetics than cigarettes specifically. Some people are prone to have their dna break down, and those that are can have it happen from a multitude of sources/triggers. That's the nature of entropy. We all break down eventually.

Yes, death is saddening. But to villify others is just as bad, if not worse. No, Average wasn't doing that, but others in the thread are.

Ordinary Average Guy: Some of you smokers who read this will suffer the same fate.

Challenge accepted?


Yes. I enjoy life, and know full well the risks. In my opinion, I'm richer than most who life a frugal and sheltered life of sacrifice who sneer when they see others enjoying themselves.

I really am sorry for your loss, I cannot imagine losing someone that close. I know it's maybe hard to hear, and you've maybe heard it already making that worse, but try to be happy that you had the time you did, try not to wallow in regret.(I mean well here, hell, maybe you don't have family and friends telling you this, I really don't know).

I had an aunt who lost her husband about a year ago, but it was not sudden, it was drug out over months and years. Utterly horrific for all involved, living with that impending certainty and the need to care for him 24/7. He didn't want visitors at all in those last months, he recognized that people don't find real pleasure in it, and wanted to be remembered as he was before he fell ill, not the needy an unable man he was at the end.

He wanted people to remember the good times, the fun and entertaining parts of his life we were all fortunate to have enjoyed.
 
2013-01-27 05:37:03 PM  

KidneyStone: Plastic Trash Vortex: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

Because the fact that smoking is bad for you is what makes it so cool. Smoking an electronic cigarette is like riding around on a motorcycle with training wheels.

E-cigs remove some of the cancer risks but other risks like heart attack and such are still very much there


So... it's like fast food then?
 
2013-01-27 05:43:01 PM  
I don't know about other places but here in Southern MN there are very few places you can smoke , outside only and not all properties allow it either.

Seems to be a real bothersome thing to do , and it is funny watching people smoke outside their vehicle .
 
2013-01-27 05:47:50 PM  

ParagonComplex: My mother died of lung cancer caused from smoking. Specifically caused from smoking. I was with her when the lung doctor told her as such. I never gave up hope that she would beat it. She had a 25% chance. I lived a great life never thinking negative about anyone or anything. I didn't smoke, drink, or do drugs to deal with the stress. I prayed every single night that she would beat it. Then it spread to her brain. That is what killed her. She did beat the lung cancer, but it metastesizing is what killed her. There was nothing but scar tissue left on her lungs. Maybe I shoulda been more specific in my prayers o_O. When it spread to her brain I prayed for a miracle. I did end up getting a cancer miracle. My seven year old nephew was taking to the emergency room, and they did scans on him. He was having pain in his bladder. There was a 'large unknown mass'. He was immediately sent to the Vanderbilt Children's Cancer ward. They had a bed waiting for him and everything. Then the next morning my Mom woke me up to tell me that it wasn't cancer after all. That it was a fairly common occurance amongst children. I got my miracle. My mother was just meant to die. When she was terminal I told myself that something good will come from this. People in my family will realize what smoking does and they will stop. Nobody did. Nobody has.

Point is: Some things are meant to happen, and nicotine is one hell of an addictive drug. The entire business is insidious, because it feeds on addiction. The sort of addiction that sneaks up on a person. Nicotine itself isn't harmful. It's the tobacco plant itself. Sure, the additives make it worse, but even American Spirits can cause cancer just as easily as other cigarettes. The tobacco plant is just toxic.

With the advances in technology it makes me wonder if it's possible to create a tobacco plant that isn't radioactive in its DNA. Anything to make it a little less harmful. I hope the e-cigarette thing catches on. It has been slowly and surely. Despite what the FDA says it really is a safe alternative to smoking cigarettes. Some people use it to quit. Some use it to continue smoking without worrying about lung cancer.

Nicotine, one hell of a drug. Highly addictive, and it does the worse thing possible: It helps. It helps a lot.

I know this was too damn long for most to read, but that's my story. Stop while you can. Don't leave your children without a mother.


Sad story.

The plant itself is not the problem though, burning and curing it is.

If you take out the center vein and steam the fresh leaves (rather than age or flue cure it) there are nitrosamine levels low enough to eat. Look into Swedish snus sometime.

This does not diminish your loss, I'm just advocating for risk reduction rather than a ban. Order some Etan snus pouches for your relatives. They are delicious and satisfying. Don't fall for American snus either. Tastes like shiat.
 
2013-01-27 05:49:13 PM  
I used to work in a cigarette factory doing computer work.

Generally speaking, the manufactured cost of a pack of cigarettes is about 25 cents. That includes the tobacco, fillers, flavoring, filter, wrapping, labor, and the equipment. The difference between a generic and premium cigarette is how much they can charge for it and still keep the market share they want to have.

The rest is profit for either the cigarette company or the government.
 
2013-01-27 05:55:36 PM  

Surpheon: More like "You smell like shiat and I hate you because you are smearing that shiat smell into my clothes and hair. I don't actually hate smokers, but they have no clue how strong and persistent that smell is. (Talking cigarettes; there are some fine smelling pipes and cigars out there.)


The smell is the only marketing left to tobacco companies.  There is a term in the business called "loft" which describes how much the smoke rises.  Cigarette smoke today doesn't go up like it used to 40 years ago, it sticks to the ground to remind other smokers that they should be smoking.

In Australia the smoking rates are 15 to 18% depending on which stats you want to look at but some group has recently reported 13%.  The majority of new smokers in the country are student visitors from China but the local council is sending people around watching them drop butts on the street and then fining them $600 or even more if it is still smoking.  Also the electronic cigarettes are banned unless they have no nicotine.
 
2013-01-27 05:55:55 PM  

skantea: Spend more money on the equipment. That was the first thing I learned doing the research and it seems to be the difference. I've got premium kit with a refillable tank. The cartomizers were cool for a while but the tank is a big step up in smoothness. Just ordered a pass through so I only need batteries for traveling.
I smoked for 20 years.


I'm not even sure on the difference between a "cartomizer" and a "tank". Is it just size? As for spending more money, at least I am spending less than I would on actual cigarettes but give me a break. Volt, Vision Spinner, Inferno, they're mostly the same. I've seen a couple that were more expensive but are starting to get comical. Do I really need an e-cig with a LCD display? I've seen people proclaim that variable voltage is awesome....My Vision Spinners are variable voltage. I never vary the voltage though.

They just don't hit like cigarettes do. I can't think of the name of it, but there was a product that actually vaporized tobacco. I may have to dig it up because I think that's more appealing but IIRC it wasn't a cost savings over cigarettes - and plus they always get you with the high up-front cost just to see if you like their product.

I used to smoke these:

d2pzmkulz8di6u.cloudfront.net

Eclipse, but they don't sell them around here anymore. They're basically pre-packaged vaporizers which use charcoal that is lit as a heat source. Not quite as clean as an e-cig or electronic vaporizer, but much cleaner than conventional cigs.
 
2013-01-27 06:01:53 PM  
CSB: I was walking on an El platform one morning when a guy down a ways was smoking. Technically you're not supposed to smoke there, but whatever. It's outside. Anyway, another guy walks by him and starts faux-coughing like he's in a gas chamber. Guess which of the two I more wanted to push onto the tracks?
 
2013-01-27 06:41:41 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: I used to work in a cigarette factory doing computer work.

Generally speaking, the manufactured cost of a pack of cigarettes is about 25 cents. That includes the tobacco, fillers, flavoring, filter, wrapping, labor, and the equipment. The difference between a generic and premium cigarette is how much they can charge for it and still keep the market share they want to have.

The rest is profit for either the cigarette company or the government.


I don't really doubt that. When I started smoking in the late '80s cost wasn't much of an issue for me even though I was a poor college student. You typically paid less than $1 a pack and often there were specials (buy 2 get 1 free or whatever). Then there were a lot of lawsuits and big tobacco lost a few of them and prices started to creep up. And they kept creeping up. I remember being OUTRAGED the first time I paid $2 for a pack of cigarettes. It was at a bar at a ski resort and everything was overpriced. I swore I would quit if $2 ever became the norm. And then it became the norm. And then it became a good price.

And then people started in with this myth that most of the price of cigarettes is tax. That's bullshiat. I paid $70 and change for the last carton I bought - that's $7 a pack. $1.01 federal tax and (in my case) $0.84 in state tax. Let's call it $2 if you count sales tax (close enough). Okay, that's significantly more than when I started smoking and paid $1 a pack or so but it doesn't even approach half the cost let alone most of the cost which so many people seem to believe.

Has it really gotten that much more expensive to grow tobacco and manufacture cigarettes? I'm sure lawsuits had a certain impact, but come on dudes. The outrage that really stands out to me is what happened when Obama took office. I don't want to turn this into a political thread, but it was his idea wasn't it? Federal cigarette taxes were raised on April 1, 2009 but cigarette prices went up in farking January. I went from paying $48 a carton to over $70 a carton and the tax hadn't even taken effect!

Did they think we didn't know the tax hadn't taken effect? And ALL of the tobacco companies did this. Are they colluding? Were they testing the waters to see if people would quit at such an increase? And if so, why didn't they gradually increase the price? Well, they got me. I didn't quit, but I was super-farking pissed and started calling all over to see if I could get a better deal....and I found out I couldn't.

And I don't even remember what the fed tax was before, but a $25 increase to cover a whole $10.10 (per carton) in federal tax?

Tobacco companies are really assholes. I don't fault them for selling an addicting product. I don't fault them for using terms like "lights" (even if they mislead some people). I don't even fault them for trying to make their products more addictive (some would say "better").

I do fault them for being such dicks about their prices and I'm glad I'm not funding them anymore.

What's wrong with 100% profit? If it truly only costs 25 cents per pack....for argument's sake, let's say it's actually $1. Okay, so $1 to the fed, say another $1 to the state, $1 to cover manufacturing and $1 in farking profit. If the tobacco companies had done that, a lot of people who have quit would still be smoking.

And while I'm in rant mode, why the fark did the distributor stop selling my brand of cigs? It may have been a low-volume brand but it was a guaranteed sale on a weekly basis and it wasn't just me as I found out when running around town for the last carton available in the state. RJR swore to me they were still making them but they can't convince a distributor to carry them? How much does it really cost to carry an additional SKU?

That really amazes me. Okay, I'm only one customer and maybe they thought there was a chance that I'd opt for a more popular brand, but how would they know it would be their brand? They could have driven me to Phillip Morris, but instead they just drove me away.

Oh, and thanks to all the states making tax laws difficult. I used to be able to do mail-order with RJR directly, and they made sure that state sales taxes were paid but eventually they just threw up their hands and said fark it - it's too difficult to comply with all the different state laws.
 
2013-01-27 06:44:45 PM  

Happy Hours: skantea: Spend more money on the equipment. That was the first thing I learned doing the research and it seems to be the difference. I've got premium kit with a refillable tank. The cartomizers were cool for a while but the tank is a big step up in smoothness. Just ordered a pass through so I only need batteries for traveling.
I smoked for 20 years.

I'm not even sure on the difference between a "cartomizer" and a "tank". Is it just size? As for spending more money, at least I am spending less than I would on actual cigarettes but give me a break. Volt, Vision Spinner, Inferno, they're mostly the same. I've seen a couple that were more expensive but are starting to get comical. Do I really need an e-cig with a LCD display? I've seen people proclaim that variable voltage is awesome....My Vision Spinners are variable voltage. I never vary the voltage though.

They just don't hit like cigarettes do. I can't think of the name of it, but there was a product that actually vaporized tobacco. I may have to dig it up because I think that's more appealing but IIRC it wasn't a cost savings over cigarettes - and plus they always get you with the high up-front cost just to see if you like their product.

I used to smoke these:

[d2pzmkulz8di6u.cloudfront.net image 480x654]

Eclipse, but they don't sell them around here anymore. They're basically pre-packaged vaporizers which use charcoal that is lit as a heat source. Not quite as clean as an e-cig or electronic vaporizer, but much cleaner than conventional cigs.


I didn't name the brand because they don't pay me to advertise, but the one I chose is number 2 on this list:
Link
I spent about 125 for the kit, and then another 20 for the tank. I don't know how much on extras.
The other thing you should do is watch the user videos on youtube. Lot's of good tips.
For me it was a good investment.
 
2013-01-27 07:16:53 PM  

omeganuepsilon: mjbok: There was a group of us that were all friends growing up. We all drank, smoked weed, and some of us smoked. Some of us still did. There was one guy who never did any of that stuff. Never smoked, did drugs, or drank (much, he might have had a beer or two, here and there.) At the age of 25 went in for a routine doctor's visit. Lung cancer. Was dead two months later.

//The funny thing is if he had EVER smoked he would be a smoking statistic.

In the past couple/several decades, a lot of deaths have been contributed to smoking that weren't necessarily apt. Spent entire life in construction, in steel mills, grain bins, paint manufacturers, and ripping out asbestos? At age 98? Ah, he smoked cigarettes, that's the cause!

From what I've read, it's more about genetics than cigarettes specifically. Some people are prone to have their dna break down, and those that are can have it happen from a multitude of sources/triggers. That's the nature of entropy. We all break down eventually.

Yes, death is saddening. But to villify others is just as bad, if not worse. No, Average wasn't doing that, but others in the thread are.

Ordinary Average Guy: Some of you smokers who read this will suffer the same fate.

Challenge accepted?

Yes. I enjoy life, and know full well the risks. In my opinion, I'm richer than most who life a frugal and sheltered life of sacrifice who sneer when they see others enjoying themselves.

I really am sorry for your loss, I cannot imagine losing someone that close. I know it's maybe hard to hear, and you've maybe heard it already making that worse, but try to be happy that you had the time you did, try not to wallow in regret.(I mean well here, hell, maybe you don't have family and friends telling you this, I really don't know).

I had an aunt who lost her husband about a year ago, but it was not sudden, it was drug out over months and years. Utterly horrific for all involved, living with that impending certainty and the need t ...


I am thankful that she did not suffer very long, minutes, actually, and I have have children and grandchildren. she was involved in a MVA 20 years ago this year that left her disabled, so every day in those ensuing years truly was a blessing. Its just that 33 years was not enough.
 
2013-01-27 07:33:43 PM  

Ordinary Average Guy: Its just that 33 years was not enough.


No matter how long you knew someone, if they're close, it's never long enough.

When I go, I want people I knew to celebrate my life. Drown themselves in drinking and merriment, if they're able, for a night, spend a day laughing off the terrible hangover and the shenanigans of the night before, and then move on with life. Everyone wants to be remembered, but no one really wants to be a drain, for others to suffer once they're gone.
 
2013-01-27 07:57:16 PM  

skantea: I didn't name the brand because they don't pay me to advertise, but the one I chose is number 2 on this list:
Link
I spent about 125 for the kit, and then another 20 for the tank. I don't know how much on extras.
The other thing you should do is watch the user videos on youtube. Lot's of good tips.
For me it was a good investment.


Interesting. Maybe I'll try it. My biggest concern is that I might be more addicted to nicotine than when I quit smoking. It's sort of hard to quantify without medical tests.

Nicotine is a bad drug kids, don't even start. Do something safe like crack instead.
 
2013-01-27 07:58:01 PM  
If people don't know by now that smoking is bad for them, then all the money in the world spent on tv ads isn't going to do any good.

Its like living on fast food. If people want to do that to themselves, then fark'em.
 
2013-01-27 08:42:38 PM  

omeganuepsilon: In the past couple/several decades, a lot of deaths have been contributed to smoking that weren't necessarily apt. Spent entire life in construction, in steel mills, grain bins, paint manufacturers, and ripping out asbestos? At age 98? Ah, he smoked cigarettes, that's the cause!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment

Calment smoked from the age of 21 (1896) to 117 (1992), though according to an unspecified source, she smoked no more than two cigarettes per day. After her operation, Calment needed to use a wheelchair. She weighed 45 kilograms (99 lb) in 1994.
 
2013-01-27 09:20:10 PM  

letthepossumlive: I failed every time I tried to quit smoking.
Then I decided I no longer wanted to smoke. It was easy to stop.
Not sure why. Maybe it took the focus off of the cigs and onto me or I could visualize myself not smoking ,
If that makes sense to anyone and you want to stop, give it a shot. It's free.


Yup...woke up one day with a harsh throat from the previous night and realized I was fifty years old, been smoking since I was fifteen and that was farking long enough.

(checks Stop Smoking tracker)

290 days smoke free, $1740 saved
 
2013-01-27 10:01:03 PM  
i47.tinypic.com

it'z verking!
 
2013-01-28 05:41:43 AM  

Salmon: Me too. I farted until my late thirties but got sick of getting sick and quit.


i.ytimg.com
 
2013-01-28 12:35:45 PM  

lstywnch: It's completely different for someone to say, "I truly believe you standing there and smoking is affecting my health adversely and would appreciate you not doing it around me," than it is to say, "OMG That stinks and you stink and I hate you because you stink!!" One is a very adult thing to say, and one sounds like a third grader.


You're assuming too much. The fact is that I can immediately identify someone who smokes inside because the stale cigarette smoke stinks terribly... it smells worse than kitchen garbage to me sometimes. I can smell outdoor smokers much of the time too. I'm an ex-smoker and I honestly don't worry about second-hand smoke. I don't do the stupid, fake cough many non-smokers do. If my mom is visiting and wants to smoke in my car, I let her.

Cigars are banned in most places that still allow cigarettes for the reason you give above. Many cigarette smokers who fully realize they're harming their own health, think that cigars stink. Stinks in this case means actually stinking, not in the 3rd grade form you cite.

Having said that, I think any business should be permitted to allow smoking if they choose. Simply put a sign on the door that says "smoking permitted in this establishment." Even though I no longer smoke, I prefer bars where smoking is allowed.
 
2013-01-28 02:09:46 PM  
Hot Topic!

People do stuff that is unhealthy. Holy Fark!

News at 11.
 
2013-01-28 04:19:27 PM  

DON.MAC: Also the electronic cigarettes are banned unless they have no nicotine.


That's farking stupid. Ecigarettes are the most proven way to quit smoking actual tobacco. So they're making it even more difficult to quit.
 
2013-01-28 07:33:52 PM  

RockChalkH1N1: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

It's not the same


yeah but they're missing an MAOI-B inhibitor named harmine
which *enhances* the high and makes it more addictive
 
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