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(The Eagle Tribune)   15 years after the great tobacco industry settlement less money than ever is being spent to stop smoking   (eagletribune.com) divider line 129
    More: Obvious, 46th state, chewing tobacco, proposed state, technical assistance, Philip Morris USA, Philip Morris, smoking cessation, state legislators  
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3484 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jan 2013 at 1:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



129 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-01-27 11:17:43 AM  
nobody ever wants this country to stop smoking - it's far too profitable.  states make bank off tobacco sales taxes, the tobacco companies themselves have a customer base that is literally addicted to their product and finds it difficult to quit smoking.  incidentally, the fact that tobacco companies actually researched ways to make their product MORE addictive pisses me the hell off.  that makes 'em little different from drug pushers or Colombian cartels in my book.  Anyways, nobody wants customers to stop smoking.  sure, making people healthy plays well on the evening news but lets face it - if the choice is between spending money on various/sundry pork barrel projects or funding medical treatment for addicted smokers...the money is gonna go to the pork barrel projects hands down no question.
 
2013-01-27 12:22:33 PM  
Yeah, in MN they used most of the money to plug up unrelated debts and government projects.

In the heyday of the money, I called the new "Smoking Cessation Hotline" to see about getting some patches or gum as I did not have a lot of money and was trying to quit. They said they don't offer those but they would write down my name and number and call me every few days to remind me how important it is to quit smoking.

Money well spent.
 
2013-01-27 12:38:07 PM  
You can't squeeze the goose that shiats the golden egg.
 
2013-01-27 12:54:04 PM  
And in a few more years, they can milk that cash cow again
 
2013-01-27 01:11:30 PM  
Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.
 
2013-01-27 01:16:08 PM  

Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.


Because the fact that smoking is bad for you is what makes it so cool. Smoking an electronic cigarette is like riding around on a motorcycle with training wheels.
 
2013-01-27 01:17:08 PM  

Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.


It's not the same
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-27 01:17:09 PM  
Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere

Framingham, Mass. recently banned them on town property and other towns in the area will follow. (http://www.wickedlocal.com/hudson/news/lifestyle/health/x1058235615/ Me troWest-moving-toward-healthier-choices)
 
2013-01-27 01:18:06 PM  

Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.


As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.
 
2013-01-27 01:20:43 PM  
15 years after the great tobacco industry settlement less money than ever is being spent to stop smoking

That's because the problem was solved.
 
2013-01-27 01:21:36 PM  
Technically, most of the money from the settlement was to reimburse the state for smoking-related medical expenses that the states were responsible for paying a portion of through Medicaid. If they had to borrow money from the general fund to meet these unexpected expenses in the  Medicaid bucket, the settlement money could replace the shortfall.

Not that it wasn't a stupid-ass thing to do, especially in an age of surplus, jes' sayin'.
 
2013-01-27 01:21:50 PM  
You can imagine a conversation at Big Tobacco Co when the original settlement was announced.

Anti-tobacco movement: those funds have to be fenced and used exactly for the purpose intended!

Big Tobacco Co: Nah, tell 'em they can stick it in the general fund. We're ok and trust the government to do what's right. *snicker* - knowing full well the gov will just piss it away on other things.
 
2013-01-27 01:23:35 PM  

A Terrible Human: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.


Interesting! What does the satisfaction derive from, then? I don't smoke, but I'd thought the rituals of smoking an e-cig were similar. What is it missing?
 
2013-01-27 01:23:52 PM  
i291.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-27 01:24:35 PM  
good? good.
 
2013-01-27 01:28:59 PM  
Here's the crazy thing. Smoking does not improve tax income, but to understand that you have to look at how opportunity cost really works..

Smokers:
Pay tax on what they smoke.
Pay lots of money to health insurance.
Have more sick days and are generally less productive (Cigarette breaks, less physically fit etc)
Retire earlier and die sooner

Non Smokers:
Don't pay tax on something they don't buy
Live longer and earn more money as a result
Pay more income tax
Provide more added value into society

And it's this last one that does it. The arguments about smoking making more money is the sort of stupid thinking that only looks at the money. Money is not made, it is pushed around, it is zero-sum. Value, on the other hand, can be created and consumed. It doesn't matter how much you push the money around, if the workforce have fewer productive years, the net effect is less overall value. The money will simply revalue to reflect its value in time.
 
2013-01-27 01:29:09 PM  

Sim Tree: A Terrible Human: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.

Interesting! What does the satisfaction derive from, then? I don't smoke, but I'd thought the rituals of smoking an e-cig were similar. What is it missing?


The flavor and the rush you feel. Just ask any pot smoker, same deal, you can get the get the same look and feel but synthetic is no substitute for the real thing.

/Well guess i'm going on break, be back after my cig.
 
2013-01-27 01:29:54 PM  
A lot fewer people smoke. It's quickly reached the point of diminishing returns to spend money, and the social stigma has done its job.

www.willisms.com

Adults can do what they want, well at least they can smoke tobacco and drink. Let them. We don't have much else.
 
2013-01-27 01:31:13 PM  

mantafirefly: Have more sick days and are generally less productive (Cigarette breaks, less physically fit etc)


fayinc.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-27 01:33:03 PM  

Plastic Trash Vortex: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

Because the fact that smoking is bad for you is what makes it so cool. Smoking an electronic cigarette is like riding around on a motorcycle with training wheels.


E-cigs remove some of the cancer risks but other risks like heart attack and such are still very much there
 
2013-01-27 01:33:57 PM  

eas81: mantafirefly: Have more sick days and are generally less productive (Cigarette breaks, less physically fit etc)

[fayinc.files.wordpress.com image 500x271]


Nice try mate, but you're not going to convicne me that they're going to be more productive. And they do retire and die earlier, often after a rather long an expensive fight against whatever illness gets them (Consuming lots of actual "Value" along the way) which is rather more the point.
 
2013-01-27 01:34:41 PM  

ZAZ: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere

Framingham, Mass. recently banned them on town property and other towns in the area will follow. (http://www.wickedlocal.com/hudson/news/lifestyle/health/x1058235615/ Me troWest-moving-toward-healthier-choices)


what the actual fark
 
2013-01-27 01:36:10 PM  
The things should be banned, pure and simple. It would shut the smoking Nazis up once and for all on the subject. Smokers will get over their jitters in a couple months and be happier for it.
 
2013-01-27 01:36:26 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: A lot fewer people smoke. It's quickly reached the point of diminishing returns to spend money, and the social stigma has done its job.

[www.willisms.com image 448x461]

Adults can do what they want, well at least they can smoke tobacco and drink. Let them. We don't have much else.


Once I stop having to pay for all their health related problems through taxes, debt, health care premiums, etc, I'll be fine with it. Until then, fark smokers. Plus they smell like shiat.
 
2013-01-27 01:37:03 PM  

ZAZ: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere

Framingham, Mass. recently banned them on town property and other towns in the area will follow. (http://www.wickedlocal.com/hudson/news/lifestyle/health/x1058235615/ Me troWest-moving-toward-healthier-choices)


FTFA:  The campaign is not just about promoting exercise, as Framingham recently banned the sale of electronic cigarettes to minors and smoking the battery-powered devices on all town properties, said Board of Health Director Ethan Mascoop.

That's beautiful! Except one does not SMOKE an e-cig! Funny how "new" technology can be misrepresented cuz "SMOKIN IS BAD"!

Even airlines allow e-cigs, yanno the same industry that won't allow electrical devices during take-off and landing.
 
2013-01-27 01:37:46 PM  
Gosh! You mean the government actually took some money and no one knows where it went?
Jeeepers. That's never happened before.
We need a special commission or something.
 
2013-01-27 01:38:13 PM  

Weaver95: nobody ever wants this country to stop smoking - it's far too profitable.  states make bank off tobacco sales taxes, the tobacco companies themselves have a customer base that is literally addicted to their product and finds it difficult to quit smoking.  incidentally, the fact that tobacco companies actually researched ways to make their product MORE addictive pisses me the hell off.  that makes 'em little different from drug pushers or Colombian cartels in my book.  Anyways, nobody wants customers to stop smoking.  sure, making people healthy plays well on the evening news but lets face it - if the choice is between spending money on various/sundry pork barrel projects or funding medical treatment for addicted smokers...the money is gonna go to the pork barrel projects hands down no question.


You know, it doesn't matter about any of that because the smoking rate has plummeted. They should have mentioned it earlier in that long article, but smoking has dropped 50%. So it's not really a big surprise that smoking cessation programs aren't the priority they used to be. The battle is being won.
 
2013-01-27 01:38:17 PM  
Smoking cessation money has
Been spent on other things such as
The general fund
Smokers moribund
Now the ad campaigns lack pizzazz
 
2013-01-27 01:39:18 PM  

Sim Tree: A Terrible Human: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.

Interesting! What does the satisfaction derive from, then? I don't smoke, but I'd thought the rituals of smoking an e-cig were similar. What is it missing?


There is just something satisfying about lighting a cigarette and getting a fixed dosage of nicotine - and everything else in a cigarette and then being "done" with it (for at least a little while).

With an e-cig I'm almost constantly "smoking". I never feel satisfied and the "cartomizers" wear out gradually to the point where you realize you're not getting a decent hit and then you have to fiddle with filling them up.

Meanwhile a cigarette is packaged and ready to go - just so damn easy - and satisfying. I haven't bought cigarettes since last spring so I am saving real money but whenever I hang out with someone who still smokes I'm probably going to bum a couple of real cigs, especially if drinking is involved. I'll even bum Marlboro Lights and I can't stand that brand.
 
2013-01-27 01:39:25 PM  

Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.


Because you can't throw an e-cig on the ground to show your contempt for society and non-smokers.
 
2013-01-27 01:39:47 PM  
As someone has already pointed out. The smoking rates have plummeted. The anti tobacco legislation that was passed such as no smoking in bars/clubs and going as far as public parks in NYC has made it really inconvenient to be a smoker. The anti tobacco people won.
 
2013-01-27 01:41:59 PM  

eas81: Sim Tree: A Terrible Human: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.

Interesting! What does the satisfaction derive from, then? I don't smoke, but I'd thought the rituals of smoking an e-cig were similar. What is it missing?

The flavor and the rush you feel. Just ask any pot smoker, same deal, you can get the get the same look and feel but synthetic is no substitute for the real thing.

/Well guess i'm going on break, be back after my cig.


An e-cig is not synthetic though.  In fact, I would argue that an e-cig actually removes all of the synthetic ingredients from your nicotine.  It's not the same because you aren't getting the same combination of chemicals, you're getting the pure product.
 
2013-01-27 01:42:16 PM  
"Provide more added value into society..."

Oh, you mean like those non smokers who didn't get the flu shots this year and were sick and constantly out of the office, or the co-worker who has gastrointestinal problems that kept her out of the office for two months minimum, or the overweight co-worker who's had a running tab of medical issues lately? They all provided more added value into society.

You're farked.
 
2013-01-27 01:44:13 PM  

A Terrible Human: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.


Have you considered taking up public farting?  It's almost as annoying and gross as smoking but without all that pesky lung cancer.
 
2013-01-27 01:44:51 PM  

RockChalkH1N1: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

It's not the same


A Terrible Human: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.



Interesting. I realize it wouldn't be exactly the same but I thought as long as you got the nicotine it would at least satisfy that craving. I talked to I think 6 guys and girls and they love it and totally got them off cigs.

So there must be something other than the drug that makes cigs appealing. Or you're just shills for the tobacco industry. I keed! I keed! I'm honestly surprised Big Tobacco kept those things suppressed for as long as they did. Maybe try to figure out what that elusive satisfaction is. Cause it seems like a great solution to me. But I don't smoke so I can't really talk.
 
2013-01-27 01:45:41 PM  

skinink: "Provide more added value into society..."

Oh, you mean like those non smokers who didn't get the flu shots this year and were sick and constantly out of the office, or the co-worker who has gastrointestinal problems that kept her out of the office for two months minimum, or the overweight co-worker who's had a running tab of medical issues lately? They all provided more added value into society.

You're farked.


Are you implying that we smokers are some how immune to those things? Sweet!

/Not really sure why I still do except 'I like it', the plan is to quit before kids or whenever I just feel like stopping, which-ever comes first.
 
2013-01-27 01:47:33 PM  
Cigarettes? Yech. I say ban them

myarmiscompleteagain.files.wordpress.com

These on the other hand...
 
2013-01-27 01:52:12 PM  
I smoked occasionally (weekends, at bars) for the past 5 years and started smoking regularly about a year and a half ago, and quit two months ago.  I'm glad I did, it was hard enough and I don't know what it'd be like if I had smoked more or for longer.

/slipped up on Friday and bought a pack.  Smoked one, broke the rest in half and tossed them.
//not worth it.
 
2013-01-27 01:53:20 PM  
Why should it cost anything to stop smoking?

Step one: Stop smoking.


If you fail, you'll die off eventually.
 
2013-01-27 01:53:54 PM  
I failed every time I tried to quit smoking.
Then I decided I no longer wanted to smoke. It was easy to stop.
Not sure why. Maybe it took the focus off of the cigs and onto me or I could visualize myself not smoking ,
If that makes sense to anyone and you want to stop, give it a shot. It's free.
 
2013-01-27 01:56:21 PM  

skinink: "Provide more added value into society..."

Oh, you mean like those non smokers who didn't get the flu shots this year and were sick and constantly out of the office, or the co-worker who has gastrointestinal problems that kept her out of the office for two months minimum, or the overweight co-worker who's had a running tab of medical issues lately? They all provided more added value into society.

You're farked.


On average, yes, it's not like smoking on top of their problems would've helped any of them is it? "More" doesn't necessarily mean "Positive" though.
 
2013-01-27 01:56:50 PM  

Sim Tree: Technically, most of the money from the settlement was to reimburse the state for smoking-related medical expenses that the states were responsible for paying a portion of through Medicaid. If they had to borrow money from the general fund to meet these unexpected expenses in the  Medicaid bucket, the settlement money could replace the shortfall.


You're making the assumption that smokers add to the state's costs. Smokers do, to a point, but then they die early. That results in a tangible savings in social security / retirement benefits that more than offsets the healthcare costs.

You want citation I'm sure:

A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.
 
2013-01-27 01:57:00 PM  
And?
 
2013-01-27 01:57:39 PM  

pivazena: /slipped up on Friday and bought a pack. Smoked one, broke the rest in half and tossed them.
//not worth it.


That's awesome. I never smoked but I'm a drunk and so I know you're a bad ass for doing that. Every time you think about smoking, remember how shiatty it makes you feel afterwards.
 
2013-01-27 01:58:32 PM  

Ed Finnerty: Yeah, in MN they used most of the money to plug up unrelated debts and government projects.


Um, yeah. That was the point. The lawsuit was for damages; as in, the states sued Big Tobacco because they paid for public healthcare costs for people who got addicted to their product. That Big Tobacco had reams of data that showed they KNEW their product was addictive and damaging and only researched ways to make it worse meant they had a case. And they won.

The money was never specifically earmarked for smoking prevention, though Big Tobacco agreed to spend some of their own money for that purpose (disingenuously of course). It was to close a budget gap that they proved was due to health care cost overruns that would've otherwise been spent on. . . government projects.
 
2013-01-27 01:58:37 PM  

Riche: A Terrible Human: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.

Have you considered taking up public farting?  It's almost as annoying and gross as smoking but without all that pesky lung cancer.


Farting can become a very addictive habit. I tried stopping once, but I gained a lot of weight.
 
2013-01-27 01:58:37 PM  
Didn't anybody else notice the photo?
Maybe its just my phone browser.
 
2013-01-27 01:59:15 PM  

Chagrin: Sim Tree: Technically, most of the money from the settlement was to reimburse the state for smoking-related medical expenses that the states were responsible for paying a portion of through Medicaid. If they had to borrow money from the general fund to meet these unexpected expenses in the  Medicaid bucket, the settlement money could replace the shortfall.

You're making the assumption that smokers add to the state's costs. Smokers do, to a point, but then they die early. That results in a tangible savings in social security / retirement benefits that more than offsets the healthcare costs.

You want citation I'm sure:

A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.


Now compare that to the amount of money they paid towards their medical costs through taxation in that time.
 
2013-01-27 02:00:53 PM  

AcneVulgaris: Why should it cost anything to stop smoking?

Step one: Stop smoking.


If you fail, you'll die off eventually.


You're gonna die if you don't smoke too.
 
2013-01-27 02:00:57 PM  
ANYONE who thought these tobacco lawsuits would benefit anyone other than lawyers or
the state coffers was an idiot. It was a money grab, pure & simple.
 
2013-01-27 02:03:14 PM  
Not in my city. Idiots in the city council banned smoking in indoor businesses, INCLUDING TOBACCO SHOPS, and also BANNED electronic cigarettes, even after they went to the city council & showd that e-cigarettes CONTAIN NOTHING BUT WATER VAPOR.....morons.

Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere

 
2013-01-27 02:05:54 PM  

pivazena: I smoked occasionally (weekends, at bars) for the past 5 years and started smoking regularly about a year and a half ago, and quit two months ago.  I'm glad I did, it was hard enough and I don't know what it'd be like if I had smoked more or for longer.

/slipped up on Friday and bought a pack.  Smoked one, broke the rest in half and tossed them.
//not worth it.


I slipped up a year after I stopped and got five into the pack before I realized how sick they were making me feel.  I gave the rest of mine to a roommate, because I just couldn't deal with wasting the $7 or so bucks.

Every time I feel the desire, I think back to that day.

/every time the smokers I work with step out for one, I ask them to smoke one for me as well
 
2013-01-27 02:05:55 PM  
Me too. I farted until my late thirties but got sick of getting sick and quit.
 
2013-01-27 02:05:59 PM  

Weaver95: nobody ever wants this country to stop smoking - it's far too profitable.  states make bank off tobacco sales taxes, the tobacco companies themselves have a customer base that is literally addicted to their product and finds it difficult to quit smoking.  incidentally, the fact that tobacco companies actually researched ways to make their product MORE addictive pisses me the hell off.  that makes 'em little different from drug pushers or Colombian cartels in my book.  Anyways, nobody wants customers to stop smoking.  sure, making people healthy plays well on the evening news but lets face it - if the choice is between spending money on various/sundry pork barrel projects or funding medical treatment for addicted smokers...the money is gonna go to the pork barrel projects hands down no question.


I inherited a few shares of RAI stock in 2008 when my grandmother died, and it's one of the only ones that's gone up and stayed there since the crash. The only reason I haven't dumped it yet is because it's the only one paying dividends and I don't have other income to invest (I buy other stocks with it). My sister and I can't even figure out why she had it since her brother died of lung cancer, but we think maybe she also inherited it.

Either I dump it if I have a major financial issue come up, or as soon as I get a real job... I dislike having a stake in that business.
 
2013-01-27 02:08:11 PM  

p51d007: Not in my city. Idiots in the city council banned smoking in indoor businesses, INCLUDING TOBACCO SHOPS, and also BANNED electronic cigarettes, even after they went to the city council & showd that e-cigarettes CONTAIN NOTHING BUT WATER VAPOR.....morons.


And nicotine.  Moron.
 
2013-01-27 02:09:19 PM  

A Terrible Human: As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.


I tried it and found that I had it out constantly. And yeah, it's not the same, but it does help fight the urge to choke the living shiat out of some jack ass.
 
2013-01-27 02:11:36 PM  

jotamono: AcneVulgaris: Why should it cost anything to stop smoking?

Step one: Stop smoking.


If you fail, you'll die off eventually.

You're gonna die if you don't smoke too.


The more radical anti-smokers think that they will, indeed, live forever if they can just stay clear of secondhand smoke. True fact!
 
2013-01-27 02:12:44 PM  
I quit smoking in June.

Here's what I did.

I stopped buying them.
 
2013-01-27 02:14:22 PM  
So what? Society is still paying for smoker's health care, tobacco taxes go into the pot that is depleted by that expense, and the higher per-pack costs reduce the number of smokers. I fail to see a problem here. The higher per pack cost and no-smoking zone laws are cheap (or revenue positive) steps that make a real difference. The advertising and hotlines are of dubious value.

I irrationally hate smoking, but I think how the state handles tobacco is an excellent model for how it should handle a large majority of drugs (marijuana, LSD, cocaine). Regulate the hell out of to the point that the only person it conceivably is going to hurt is the individual, and then tax it heavily to cover the costs that it will still accrue to society.
 
2013-01-27 02:14:47 PM  

lstywnch: A Terrible Human: As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.

I tried it and found that I had it out constantly. And yeah, it's not the same, but it does help fight the urge to choke the living shiat out of some jack ass.


Exactly. Might as well do the Real Thing.

I know it is politically incorrect to admit this, these days, but... I LOVE to smoke. There, I said it. Boo, hiss, etc.

/wishes it were legal to shoot annoying anti-smokers who cough and wave at a smoker 50 feet away
 
2013-01-27 02:20:45 PM  

jenlen: I know it is politically incorrect to admit this, these days, but... I LOVE to smoke.


Sure, it's not like smoking is still the lazy filmmaker's way of marking the badass protagonist, or that chomping a cigar is the Rich White Man's way to be daringly rebellious.

Please. Get over your persecution complex. Anti-smokers don't like smokers because after your nose starts working again stale cigarette smoke smells as appealing as the passed out drunk hobo with diarrhea soaked pants on the subway.
 
2013-01-27 02:23:20 PM  
They can make people stop smoking by mandating that they be shaped like a penis.
Can't wait for the Tobacco companies to sue for their money back because of state fraud.
 
2013-01-27 02:26:43 PM  

jenlen: I know it is politically incorrect to admit this, these days, but... I LOVE to smoke. There, I said it. Boo, hiss, etc.

/wishes it were legal to shoot annoying anti-smokers who cough and wave at a smoker 50 feet away


I have days where I like it and days that I don't really.
The city outlawed smoking in the bars here. The first thing that happened was people stood in front of the bars and smoked, and threw butts and ash all over the place, because the city council neglected to put any sort of butt receptacle anywhere around the bars. So they spent a ton of money to attach ash trays to the garbage cans and street posts That took care of the litter problem. However, the ordinance says you must be 10 feet away from doors and windows. The majority of said ash trays are less than 6 feet from doors and windows. The police here said they wouldn't enforce the ordinance. Fast forward to more recently, the same people who complained about people smoking in the bars now complain that they have to walk through a wall of smoke to get into the bar. Even better, the one woman who led the charge and crusaded to have the ordinance put in place has since left town. There really is just no pleasing some people.
 
2013-01-27 02:33:11 PM  
The most rabid anti smoking assholes that I know, the ones who rail the most about second hand smoke, are all heavy pot smokers. They are firmly convinced smoking pot is good for them and nothing bad will ever come from it.
 
2013-01-27 02:34:55 PM  
This thread just decided my movie choice for the afternoon.

www.badmovieplanet.com
 
2013-01-27 02:35:24 PM  
lstywnch:  Even better, the one woman who led the charge and crusaded to have the ordinance put in place has since left town. There really is just no pleasing some people.

Heh, I think she moved here... I've seen her ilk crusading everywhere for the past twenty years. After they win, they move on to find fresh prey. It's not about smoking in and of itself, really, with people like that. It is about you, and you doing something that gives you pleasure that they do not approve of. Puritans, more or less.

And most of the laws and bullshiat we put up with stems from one thing, mentioned in a reply to my earlier post above: it stinks, to non-smokers. They don't like the smell. There is the source of ninety percent of the smoking bans.
 
2013-01-27 02:35:40 PM  
Less money than ever? Really?
 
2013-01-27 02:38:01 PM  

lstywnch: Fast forward to more recently, the same people who complained about people smoking in the bars now complain that they have to walk through a wall of smoke to get into the bar.


People who hated smoke in bars now hate to walk through a wall of smoke to get into a bar? Quick, call Ric Romero!
 
2013-01-27 02:40:03 PM  

jenlen: And most of the laws and bullshiat we put up with stems from one thing, mentioned in a reply to my earlier post above: it stinks, to non-smokers. They don't like the smell. There is the source of ninety percent of the smoking bans.


I tend to agree with you. It's completely different for someone to say, "I truly believe you standing there and smoking is affecting my health adversely and would appreciate you not doing it around me," than it is to say, "OMG That stinks and you stink and I hate you because you stink!!" One is a very adult thing to say, and one sounds like a third grader.
 
2013-01-27 02:41:17 PM  
jenlen: it stinks, to non-smokers. They don't like the smell.

Bingo. Unresolved childhood issues about the grandpa who fell over dead from it (and there were an awful lot who did) is often a factor, but the aggressiveness of the smell is a big factor too. If you hang out around smokers for an hour, your clothes smell like smoke until you wash them. It's actually worse than the crap and alcohol bum smell - that doesn't cling.
 
2013-01-27 02:43:23 PM  

lstywnch: "OMG That stinks and you stink and I hate you because you stink!!" One is a very adult thing to say, and one sounds like a third grader.


More like "You smell like shiat and I hate you because you are smearing that shiat smell into my clothes and hair. I don't actually hate smokers, but they have no clue how strong and persistent that smell is. (Talking cigarettes; there are some fine smelling pipes and cigars out there.)
 
2013-01-27 02:46:53 PM  
I think they're just waiting for them all to die off.
 
2013-01-27 02:47:10 PM  

Surpheon: People who hated smoke in bars now hate to walk through a wall of smoke to get into a bar? Quick, call Ric Romero!


I just find it amusing. No ratsin' frackin' smokers are gonna get in the way of me getting my drunk on!
 
2013-01-27 02:49:37 PM  

lstywnch: jenlen:
Oooh, thank you :)

 
2013-01-27 02:51:14 PM  

Surpheon: lstywnch: "OMG That stinks and you stink and I hate you because you stink!!" One is a very adult thing to say, and one sounds like a third grader.

More like "You smell like shiat and I hate you because you are smearing that shiat smell into my clothes and hair. I don't actually hate smokers, but they have no clue how strong and persistent that smell is. (Talking cigarettes; there are some fine smelling pipes and cigars out there.)

More like "You smell like shiat and I hate you because you are smearing that shiat smell into my clothes and hair." I don't actually hate smokers Axe-users, but they have no clue how strong and persistent that smell is.


Anyone can complain about odors or scents, ya know.

I've not had any complaints in my adult life about my "stench" as a smoker. Most people are actually polite or, gasp, don't care? I was told in grade school that I smelled like an ashtray (thanks Mom!). Third graders, indeed.
 
2013-01-27 02:52:46 PM  

lstywnch: lstywnch: jenlen:
Oooh, thank you :)


High-five for putting up with the shiat these days just because you smoke :)
 
2013-01-27 02:56:12 PM  

Surpheon: lstywnch: "OMG That stinks and you stink and I hate you because you stink!!" One is a very adult thing to say, and one sounds like a third grader.

More like "You smell like shiat and I hate you because you are smearing that shiat smell into my clothes and hair. I don't actually hate smokers, but they have no clue how strong and persistent that smell is. (Talking cigarettes; there are some fine smelling pipes and cigars out there.)


After I quit, I was farking astounded at how much everything in my house smelled.  Granted, I was being *really* dumb and smoking indoors (ew).  But about a month after I quit, I ended up moving to a new house.  I'd open up boxes as I was unpacking and be totally floored at how the smell was lingering.

5 loads of laundry and two bottles of febreeze later, I think we're good
 
2013-01-27 02:58:12 PM  
I resent the fact that the powers to be seem to think it's OK to tax people, high enough, to modify their behavior.
If they don't like a particular product, just tax it high enough until people quit using that legal product.
Don't like smog? Let's tax gasoline an extra $1 per gallon, claim it's for smog reduction. Too many people are using alcohol on the weekends, let's tax every can of beer, bottle of whisky, a few more bucks to offset the cost of having police respond to alcohol related incidents. Fat people should pay more at the fast food chains, because they are fat and we want them to be healthy.
The list could go on and on, but the bottom line is it's just plain wrong to implement excessive taxes on anything, just because you don't happen to agree with it.
It's also funny that the article didn't mention that some states sold their master settlement agreement funds years ago to investment groups for a lump sum of cash. So funds slated for their state are no longer available. They already spent the money.
 
2013-01-27 03:02:03 PM  

pivazena: After I quit, I was farking astounded at how much everything in my house smelled. Granted, I was being *really* dumb and smoking indoors (ew). But about a month after I quit, I ended up moving to a new house. I'd open up boxes as I was unpacking and be totally floored at how the smell was lingering.

5 loads of laundry and two bottles of febreeze later, I think we're good


I'm not denying it's offensive. But there are other things that are just as offensive that people don't get all up in arms and start talking "Let's ban shiat" about. Heavily scented body sprays come to mind. Those also cause breathing problems and migarine headaches for folks, but I haven't recently seen any move to tax them and legislate them out of existence.
 
2013-01-27 03:02:40 PM  

Weaver95: nobody ever wants this country to stop smoking - it's far too profitable.  states make bank off tobacco sales taxes, the tobacco companies themselves have a customer base that is literally addicted to their product and finds it difficult to quit smoking.  incidentally, the fact that tobacco companies actually researched ways to make their product MORE addictive pisses me the hell off.  that makes 'em little different from drug pushers or Colombian cartels in my book.  Anyways, nobody wants customers to stop smoking.  sure, making people healthy plays well on the evening news but lets face it - if the choice is between spending money on various/sundry pork barrel projects or funding medical treatment for addicted smokers...the money is gonna go to the pork barrel projects hands down no question.


Blue Cross Blue Shield wants you to stop smoking, and they sure as Hell have more influence then some surgeon. ..
 
2013-01-27 03:20:08 PM  

jenlen: I don't actually hate smokers Axe-users, but they have no clue how strong and persistent that smell is.

Anyone can complain about odors or scents, ya know.


I have never in my life been around anyone so doused in AXE or perfume that their smell permeates my clothes until I wash them. Ever.

As I said, smokers just don't seem to understand know (they can't, their nose is literally unable to smell it) how persistent and strong the smell of cigarette smoke is. Blowing cigarette smoke at someone is the same as spraying them with your favorite bottle of AXE as far as the phyisical disposition of persistent odor particulate is concerned.

lstywnch: Heavily scented body sprays come to mind. Those also cause breathing problems and migarine headaches for folks


They do not cause breathing problems to the same extent as cigarette smoke. And as I've mentioned before, unless you are literally spraying that shiat on people around you, it is not as persistent. Smoking around someone is the same as literally spraying them with a can of AXE spray - which is illegal BTW. The products of combustion permeate fabrics and hair and require washing to remove them. That is just not true of standing next to an over perfumed grandma, hipster, douche or douche hipster grandma.
 
2013-01-27 03:27:16 PM  

Surpheon: As I said, smokers just don't seem to understand know


Doh, I meant to say "As I said, smokers just don't seem to understand know..."

Markup fail.
 
2013-01-27 03:27:17 PM  
Cannot. resist.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-27 03:29:08 PM  
And whyinell should TFH surprise anyone? Who can stop it besides gubbermint, and who in gubbermint is going to try and stop it when it provides so much revenue? Which continues to be increased?

/that is all
 
2013-01-27 03:30:16 PM  
Never sat next to an over perfumed grandma, hipster, douche or douche hipster grandma on an airplane have you?
 
2013-01-27 03:34:09 PM  

A Terrible Human: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.


Spend more money on the equipment. That was the first thing I learned doing the research and it seems to be the difference. I've got premium kit with a refillable tank. The cartomizers were cool for a while but the tank is a big step up in smoothness. Just ordered a pass through so I only need batteries for traveling.
I smoked for 20 years.
 
2013-01-27 03:35:53 PM  

mantafirefly: Now compare that to the amount of money they paid towards their medical costs through taxation in that time.


Well they pay more in insurance, and they pay (probably) $2.50 a day in taxes. Let's just say a grand a year on average. Smoke for 40 years, thats 40K, which if used wisely by the government (it isn't) would go a long ways towards offsetting the costs, not to mention the aforementioned increased health premiums. Add to that the fact that they die earlier and don't get most (if any) of the social security they paid in, they are probably a net positive on the system.

Plus as a (now) non-smoker I can't even get non-smoking rates. Why? Because I've used the gum and the patch, which (to insurance companies) still makes me a smoker until a year from the date I last used either of these. Use an e-cig? To an insurance company you are a smoker.

I really hope they legalize pot everywhere and tax the everliving shiat out of it, making it more expensive than it is now.
 
2013-01-27 03:49:27 PM  

Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.


Because I hate myself and I'm killing myself in the only way I have the stones for.
 
2013-01-27 03:56:08 PM  

Surpheon: lstywnch: "OMG That stinks and you stink and I hate you because you stink!!" One is a very adult thing to say, and one sounds like a third grader.

More like "You smell like shiat and I hate you because you are smearing that shiat smell into my clothes and hair. I don't actually hate smokers, but they have no clue how strong and persistent that smell is. (Talking cigarettes; there are some fine smelling pipes and cigars out there.)


There are two kinds of non-smokers.

Non-smokers and anti-smokers. A non-smoker doesn't give a shiat. An anti-smoker smells it absolutely everywhere. I only started smoking about 5 years ago, and not once in the preceding 21 years did I experience anything like the massive stench you describe.
 
2013-01-27 04:01:20 PM  

mjbok: mantafirefly: Now compare that to the amount of money they paid towards their medical costs through taxation in that time.

Well they pay more in insurance, and they pay (probably) $2.50 a day in taxes. Let's just say a grand a year on average. Smoke for 40 years, thats 40K, which if used wisely by the government (it isn't) would go a long ways towards offsetting the costs, not to mention the aforementioned increased health premiums. Add to that the fact that they die earlier and don't get most (if any) of the social security they paid in, they are probably a net positive on the system.

Plus as a (now) non-smoker I can't even get non-smoking rates. Why? Because I've used the gum and the patch, which (to insurance companies) still makes me a smoker until a year from the date I last used either of these. Use an e-cig? To an insurance company you are a smoker.

I really hope they legalize pot everywhere and tax the everliving shiat out of it, making it more expensive than it is now.


Actually, that's stupid.

Weed is so simple and easy to grow high yield crops, you can sell it at 1/4 of street cost at 50% taxation and still make a profit.
 
2013-01-27 04:10:42 PM  

Surpheon: I have never in my life been around anyone so doused in AXE or perfume that their smell permeates my clothes until I wash them. Ever.


You haven't dated much, or even gone to strip clubs at all then.

Everyone leaves a scent behind if they're close enough, bedsheets to clothes to chairs. BO to perfumes. Yes, BO, not necessarily stank, but just smell. Skin has a smell, as does hair.

Either that or your nose is practically dead but sensitive to a few things.

Me, I'm a smoker and have a great sense of smell. Despite what you apparently think, all people, regardless of habits, have varying degrees of how well they can see, feel, smell, and taste. Some may be affected slightly, some more so, some not at all, and some are super sensitive to some things, and some are sensitive to everything.

Surpheon: I have never in my life been around anyone so doused in AXE or perfume that their smell permeates my clothes until I wash them. Ever.

As I said, smokers just don't seem to understand know (they can't, their nose is literally unable to smell it) how persistent and strong the smell of cigarette smoke is. Blowing cigarette smoke at someone


Between your ignorance, prejudice, and willingness to voice your opinions, I can understand why you're so well informed on how smoke blown at you can linger.
 
2013-01-27 04:13:10 PM  

Surpheon: They do not cause breathing problems to the same extent as cigarette smoke. And as I've mentioned before, unless you are literally spraying that shiat on people around you, it is not as persistent.


Eh.... I have to say, though cigs linger like crazy, there's some perfumes that are just awful.  My bosses, an older couple, seem to try to out-do each other in their old-lady perfume and old man musk cologne to the point that I can tell whether they were in my office half an hour after they left.  Male boss was being nice and gave me a ceramic travel mug with one of those silicone tops that was gathering dust in his office, and I *never* got the smell of that cologne out of the top.

But yes, cig smoke is bad, and I can say personally that I didn't realize how bad I smelled.
 
2013-01-27 04:17:12 PM  

pivazena: I didn't realize how bad I smelled


Oh!  But also, cigerette smoke lingers on different people in different ways.  There are some people where the smell just sticks to them in a horribly pungent way, and there are others where I am SHOCKED to learn that they smoke.  I think that explains a lot of the variation
 
2013-01-27 04:23:32 PM  
My mother died of lung cancer caused from smoking. Specifically caused from smoking. I was with her when the lung doctor told her as such. I never gave up hope that she would beat it. She had a 25% chance. I lived a great life never thinking negative about anyone or anything. I didn't smoke, drink, or do drugs to deal with the stress. I prayed every single night that she would beat it. Then it spread to her brain. That is what killed her. She did beat the lung cancer, but it metastesizing is what killed her. There was nothing but scar tissue left on her lungs. Maybe I shoulda been more specific in my prayers o_O. When it spread to her brain I prayed for a miracle. I did end up getting a cancer miracle. My seven year old nephew was taking to the emergency room, and they did scans on him. He was having pain in his bladder. There was a 'large unknown mass'. He was immediately sent to the Vanderbilt Children's Cancer ward. They had a bed waiting for him and everything. Then the next morning my Mom woke me up to tell me that it wasn't cancer after all. That it was a fairly common occurance amongst children. I got my miracle. My mother was just meant to die. When she was terminal I told myself that something good will come from this. People in my family will realize what smoking does and they will stop. Nobody did. Nobody has.

Point is: Some things are meant to happen, and nicotine is one hell of an addictive drug. The entire business is insidious, because it feeds on addiction. The sort of addiction that sneaks up on a person. Nicotine itself isn't harmful. It's the tobacco plant itself. Sure, the additives make it worse, but even American Spirits can cause cancer just as easily as other cigarettes. The tobacco plant is just toxic.

With the advances in technology it makes me wonder if it's possible to create a tobacco plant that isn't radioactive in its DNA. Anything to make it a little less harmful. I hope the e-cigarette thing catches on. It has been slowly and surely. Despite what the FDA says it really is a safe alternative to smoking cigarettes. Some people use it to quit. Some use it to continue smoking without worrying about lung cancer.

Nicotine, one hell of a drug. Highly addictive, and it does the worse thing possible: It helps. It helps a lot.

I know this was too damn long for most to read, but that's my story. Stop while you can. Don't leave your children without a mother.
 
2013-01-27 04:29:41 PM  

pivazena: pivazena: I didn't realize how bad I smelled

Oh!  But also, cigerette smoke lingers on different people in different ways.  There are some people where the smell just sticks to them in a horribly pungent way, and there are others where I am SHOCKED to learn that they smoke.  I think that explains a lot of the variation


This. Smoking in the cold or wind can cause it to stick in a different way than a warm/humid environment. You'd think the wind would help get it away, but isn't necessarily the case.

Also field stripping a butt and pocketing it is very nasty, those filters are like a skunks butthole once they cool and sit a few minutes. They emanate the smell constantly and it's a very penetrating smell. If I have to do that I'll pull the cellophane off the pack and wrap it tightly inside, and still get rid of it at the nearest opportunity.

When in the military dorms, I'd use a bowl of nice smelling carpet powder as an ashtray. People were amazed I smoked in my room, constantly asking permission to do so, etc.

Sanitary habits can help a lot as well, washing the face/hands a few times a day can really help reduce any lingering personal smell.
 
2013-01-27 04:32:19 PM  

LavenderWolf: Surpheon: lstywnch: "OMG That stinks and you stink and I hate you because you stink!!" One is a very adult thing to say, and one sounds like a third grader.

More like "You smell like shiat and I hate you because you are smearing that shiat smell into my clothes and hair. I don't actually hate smokers, but they have no clue how strong and persistent that smell is. (Talking cigarettes; there are some fine smelling pipes and cigars out there.)

There are two kinds of non-smokers.

Non-smokers and anti-smokers. A non-smoker doesn't give a shiat. An anti-smoker smells it absolutely everywhere. I only started smoking about 5 years ago, and not once in the preceding 21 years did I experience anything like the massive stench you describe.


well some people like it up the ass
some people don't
 
2013-01-27 04:38:29 PM  
Smokers cost society less. Die much earlier and much more quickly. Savings on: health care (yes, really), social security, retirement/pensions. And they pay insane taxes.
Not that I'd encourage it, but govt quietly is.
 
2013-01-27 04:54:17 PM  
As someone who had my wife of 33 years pass away suddenly a week ago from respiratory failure stemming mainly from 39 years of smoking, I'm having a problem with this.

Not looking for pity, just stating a fact. She tried all of the pills, e-cigarettes,for years, always started back up. I would give everything I have just to have 1 more day with her. It was her only vice. Some of you smokers who read this will suffer the same fate.

Challenge accepted?

go ahead and flame away, I don't give a shiat anymore.
 
2013-01-27 04:58:55 PM  
Maybe smokers could fund their own quit smoking efforts with the money they used to spend on cigarettes.
 
2013-01-27 04:59:19 PM  

Ordinary Average Guy: Challenge accepted?

go ahead and flame away, I don't give a shiat anymore.


Sorry about your loss. Sometimes life doesn't make sense. There was a group of us that were all friends growing up. We all drank, smoked weed, and some of us smoked. Some of us still did. There was one guy who never did any of that stuff. Never smoked, did drugs, or drank (much, he might have had a beer or two, here and there.) At the age of 25 went in for a routine doctor's visit. Lung cancer. Was dead two months later.

//The funny thing is if he had EVER smoked he would be a smoking statistic.
 
2013-01-27 05:03:21 PM  

skinink: "Provide more added value into society..."

Oh, you mean like those non smokers who didn't get the flu shots this year and were sick and constantly out of the office, or the co-worker who has gastrointestinal problems that kept her out of the office for two months minimum, or the overweight co-worker who's had a running tab of medical issues lately? They all provided more added value into society.

You're farked.


I take my gastrointestinal problems to the office with me. It saves on babysitting, and nobody complains about my lengthy bathroom breaks.
 
2013-01-27 05:05:19 PM  

Ed Finnerty: Yeah, in MN they used most of the money to plug up unrelated debts and government projects.

In the heyday of the money, I called the new "Smoking Cessation Hotline" to see about getting some patches or gum as I did not have a lot of money and was trying to quit. They said they don't offer those but they would write down my name and number and call me every few days to remind me how important it is to quit smoking.

Money well spent.


THIS Arkansas quit line is the same way. I offered to pay them to quit calling me and being a pain in my ass, pissing me off so that I'd want a damn cigarette. Screw that waste of money.
 
2013-01-27 05:10:42 PM  

E5bie: Maybe smokers could fund their own quit smoking efforts with the money they used to spend on cigarettes.


no maybe they should fund it with their weed money
 
2013-01-27 05:10:48 PM  
I am a cheap bastard!! Thirty years ago when cigarettes hit $1 per pack I quit & have never looked back!!
 
2013-01-27 05:18:09 PM  
I own an ad agency and i wish I could get one of those cushy, useless gigs that are state funded to discourage smoking. Seems like those gigs always go to people with better connections than I have. I'm sure it's a coincidence.
 
2013-01-27 05:23:42 PM  

Time Traveler: I am a cheap bastard!! Thirty years ago when cigarettes hit $1 per pack I quit & have never looked back!!


i quit when they hit 0.79
 
2013-01-27 05:35:13 PM  
Liberal hypocrites run screaming out of a room if someone lights up a cigarette within 25 yards, they create more and more laws outlawing it but now smoking weed is some how ok and becoming more legal every day.
m5.paperblog.com
 
2013-01-27 05:36:39 PM  

mjbok: There was a group of us that were all friends growing up. We all drank, smoked weed, and some of us smoked. Some of us still did. There was one guy who never did any of that stuff. Never smoked, did drugs, or drank (much, he might have had a beer or two, here and there.) At the age of 25 went in for a routine doctor's visit. Lung cancer. Was dead two months later.

//The funny thing is if he had EVER smoked he would be a smoking statistic.


In the past couple/several decades, a lot of deaths have been contributed to smoking that weren't necessarily apt. Spent entire life in construction, in steel mills, grain bins, paint manufacturers, and ripping out asbestos? At age 98? Ah, he smoked cigarettes, that's the cause!

From what I've read, it's more about genetics than cigarettes specifically. Some people are prone to have their dna break down, and those that are can have it happen from a multitude of sources/triggers. That's the nature of entropy. We all break down eventually.

Yes, death is saddening. But to villify others is just as bad, if not worse. No, Average wasn't doing that, but others in the thread are.

Ordinary Average Guy: Some of you smokers who read this will suffer the same fate.

Challenge accepted?


Yes. I enjoy life, and know full well the risks. In my opinion, I'm richer than most who life a frugal and sheltered life of sacrifice who sneer when they see others enjoying themselves.

I really am sorry for your loss, I cannot imagine losing someone that close. I know it's maybe hard to hear, and you've maybe heard it already making that worse, but try to be happy that you had the time you did, try not to wallow in regret.(I mean well here, hell, maybe you don't have family and friends telling you this, I really don't know).

I had an aunt who lost her husband about a year ago, but it was not sudden, it was drug out over months and years. Utterly horrific for all involved, living with that impending certainty and the need to care for him 24/7. He didn't want visitors at all in those last months, he recognized that people don't find real pleasure in it, and wanted to be remembered as he was before he fell ill, not the needy an unable man he was at the end.

He wanted people to remember the good times, the fun and entertaining parts of his life we were all fortunate to have enjoyed.
 
2013-01-27 05:37:03 PM  

KidneyStone: Plastic Trash Vortex: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

Because the fact that smoking is bad for you is what makes it so cool. Smoking an electronic cigarette is like riding around on a motorcycle with training wheels.

E-cigs remove some of the cancer risks but other risks like heart attack and such are still very much there


So... it's like fast food then?
 
2013-01-27 05:43:01 PM  
I don't know about other places but here in Southern MN there are very few places you can smoke , outside only and not all properties allow it either.

Seems to be a real bothersome thing to do , and it is funny watching people smoke outside their vehicle .
 
2013-01-27 05:47:50 PM  

ParagonComplex: My mother died of lung cancer caused from smoking. Specifically caused from smoking. I was with her when the lung doctor told her as such. I never gave up hope that she would beat it. She had a 25% chance. I lived a great life never thinking negative about anyone or anything. I didn't smoke, drink, or do drugs to deal with the stress. I prayed every single night that she would beat it. Then it spread to her brain. That is what killed her. She did beat the lung cancer, but it metastesizing is what killed her. There was nothing but scar tissue left on her lungs. Maybe I shoulda been more specific in my prayers o_O. When it spread to her brain I prayed for a miracle. I did end up getting a cancer miracle. My seven year old nephew was taking to the emergency room, and they did scans on him. He was having pain in his bladder. There was a 'large unknown mass'. He was immediately sent to the Vanderbilt Children's Cancer ward. They had a bed waiting for him and everything. Then the next morning my Mom woke me up to tell me that it wasn't cancer after all. That it was a fairly common occurance amongst children. I got my miracle. My mother was just meant to die. When she was terminal I told myself that something good will come from this. People in my family will realize what smoking does and they will stop. Nobody did. Nobody has.

Point is: Some things are meant to happen, and nicotine is one hell of an addictive drug. The entire business is insidious, because it feeds on addiction. The sort of addiction that sneaks up on a person. Nicotine itself isn't harmful. It's the tobacco plant itself. Sure, the additives make it worse, but even American Spirits can cause cancer just as easily as other cigarettes. The tobacco plant is just toxic.

With the advances in technology it makes me wonder if it's possible to create a tobacco plant that isn't radioactive in its DNA. Anything to make it a little less harmful. I hope the e-cigarette thing catches on. It has been slowly and surely. Despite what the FDA says it really is a safe alternative to smoking cigarettes. Some people use it to quit. Some use it to continue smoking without worrying about lung cancer.

Nicotine, one hell of a drug. Highly addictive, and it does the worse thing possible: It helps. It helps a lot.

I know this was too damn long for most to read, but that's my story. Stop while you can. Don't leave your children without a mother.


Sad story.

The plant itself is not the problem though, burning and curing it is.

If you take out the center vein and steam the fresh leaves (rather than age or flue cure it) there are nitrosamine levels low enough to eat. Look into Swedish snus sometime.

This does not diminish your loss, I'm just advocating for risk reduction rather than a ban. Order some Etan snus pouches for your relatives. They are delicious and satisfying. Don't fall for American snus either. Tastes like shiat.
 
2013-01-27 05:49:13 PM  
I used to work in a cigarette factory doing computer work.

Generally speaking, the manufactured cost of a pack of cigarettes is about 25 cents. That includes the tobacco, fillers, flavoring, filter, wrapping, labor, and the equipment. The difference between a generic and premium cigarette is how much they can charge for it and still keep the market share they want to have.

The rest is profit for either the cigarette company or the government.
 
2013-01-27 05:55:36 PM  

Surpheon: More like "You smell like shiat and I hate you because you are smearing that shiat smell into my clothes and hair. I don't actually hate smokers, but they have no clue how strong and persistent that smell is. (Talking cigarettes; there are some fine smelling pipes and cigars out there.)


The smell is the only marketing left to tobacco companies.  There is a term in the business called "loft" which describes how much the smoke rises.  Cigarette smoke today doesn't go up like it used to 40 years ago, it sticks to the ground to remind other smokers that they should be smoking.

In Australia the smoking rates are 15 to 18% depending on which stats you want to look at but some group has recently reported 13%.  The majority of new smokers in the country are student visitors from China but the local council is sending people around watching them drop butts on the street and then fining them $600 or even more if it is still smoking.  Also the electronic cigarettes are banned unless they have no nicotine.
 
2013-01-27 05:55:55 PM  

skantea: Spend more money on the equipment. That was the first thing I learned doing the research and it seems to be the difference. I've got premium kit with a refillable tank. The cartomizers were cool for a while but the tank is a big step up in smoothness. Just ordered a pass through so I only need batteries for traveling.
I smoked for 20 years.


I'm not even sure on the difference between a "cartomizer" and a "tank". Is it just size? As for spending more money, at least I am spending less than I would on actual cigarettes but give me a break. Volt, Vision Spinner, Inferno, they're mostly the same. I've seen a couple that were more expensive but are starting to get comical. Do I really need an e-cig with a LCD display? I've seen people proclaim that variable voltage is awesome....My Vision Spinners are variable voltage. I never vary the voltage though.

They just don't hit like cigarettes do. I can't think of the name of it, but there was a product that actually vaporized tobacco. I may have to dig it up because I think that's more appealing but IIRC it wasn't a cost savings over cigarettes - and plus they always get you with the high up-front cost just to see if you like their product.

I used to smoke these:

d2pzmkulz8di6u.cloudfront.net

Eclipse, but they don't sell them around here anymore. They're basically pre-packaged vaporizers which use charcoal that is lit as a heat source. Not quite as clean as an e-cig or electronic vaporizer, but much cleaner than conventional cigs.
 
2013-01-27 06:01:53 PM  
CSB: I was walking on an El platform one morning when a guy down a ways was smoking. Technically you're not supposed to smoke there, but whatever. It's outside. Anyway, another guy walks by him and starts faux-coughing like he's in a gas chamber. Guess which of the two I more wanted to push onto the tracks?
 
2013-01-27 06:41:41 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: I used to work in a cigarette factory doing computer work.

Generally speaking, the manufactured cost of a pack of cigarettes is about 25 cents. That includes the tobacco, fillers, flavoring, filter, wrapping, labor, and the equipment. The difference between a generic and premium cigarette is how much they can charge for it and still keep the market share they want to have.

The rest is profit for either the cigarette company or the government.


I don't really doubt that. When I started smoking in the late '80s cost wasn't much of an issue for me even though I was a poor college student. You typically paid less than $1 a pack and often there were specials (buy 2 get 1 free or whatever). Then there were a lot of lawsuits and big tobacco lost a few of them and prices started to creep up. And they kept creeping up. I remember being OUTRAGED the first time I paid $2 for a pack of cigarettes. It was at a bar at a ski resort and everything was overpriced. I swore I would quit if $2 ever became the norm. And then it became the norm. And then it became a good price.

And then people started in with this myth that most of the price of cigarettes is tax. That's bullshiat. I paid $70 and change for the last carton I bought - that's $7 a pack. $1.01 federal tax and (in my case) $0.84 in state tax. Let's call it $2 if you count sales tax (close enough). Okay, that's significantly more than when I started smoking and paid $1 a pack or so but it doesn't even approach half the cost let alone most of the cost which so many people seem to believe.

Has it really gotten that much more expensive to grow tobacco and manufacture cigarettes? I'm sure lawsuits had a certain impact, but come on dudes. The outrage that really stands out to me is what happened when Obama took office. I don't want to turn this into a political thread, but it was his idea wasn't it? Federal cigarette taxes were raised on April 1, 2009 but cigarette prices went up in farking January. I went from paying $48 a carton to over $70 a carton and the tax hadn't even taken effect!

Did they think we didn't know the tax hadn't taken effect? And ALL of the tobacco companies did this. Are they colluding? Were they testing the waters to see if people would quit at such an increase? And if so, why didn't they gradually increase the price? Well, they got me. I didn't quit, but I was super-farking pissed and started calling all over to see if I could get a better deal....and I found out I couldn't.

And I don't even remember what the fed tax was before, but a $25 increase to cover a whole $10.10 (per carton) in federal tax?

Tobacco companies are really assholes. I don't fault them for selling an addicting product. I don't fault them for using terms like "lights" (even if they mislead some people). I don't even fault them for trying to make their products more addictive (some would say "better").

I do fault them for being such dicks about their prices and I'm glad I'm not funding them anymore.

What's wrong with 100% profit? If it truly only costs 25 cents per pack....for argument's sake, let's say it's actually $1. Okay, so $1 to the fed, say another $1 to the state, $1 to cover manufacturing and $1 in farking profit. If the tobacco companies had done that, a lot of people who have quit would still be smoking.

And while I'm in rant mode, why the fark did the distributor stop selling my brand of cigs? It may have been a low-volume brand but it was a guaranteed sale on a weekly basis and it wasn't just me as I found out when running around town for the last carton available in the state. RJR swore to me they were still making them but they can't convince a distributor to carry them? How much does it really cost to carry an additional SKU?

That really amazes me. Okay, I'm only one customer and maybe they thought there was a chance that I'd opt for a more popular brand, but how would they know it would be their brand? They could have driven me to Phillip Morris, but instead they just drove me away.

Oh, and thanks to all the states making tax laws difficult. I used to be able to do mail-order with RJR directly, and they made sure that state sales taxes were paid but eventually they just threw up their hands and said fark it - it's too difficult to comply with all the different state laws.
 
2013-01-27 06:44:45 PM  

Happy Hours: skantea: Spend more money on the equipment. That was the first thing I learned doing the research and it seems to be the difference. I've got premium kit with a refillable tank. The cartomizers were cool for a while but the tank is a big step up in smoothness. Just ordered a pass through so I only need batteries for traveling.
I smoked for 20 years.

I'm not even sure on the difference between a "cartomizer" and a "tank". Is it just size? As for spending more money, at least I am spending less than I would on actual cigarettes but give me a break. Volt, Vision Spinner, Inferno, they're mostly the same. I've seen a couple that were more expensive but are starting to get comical. Do I really need an e-cig with a LCD display? I've seen people proclaim that variable voltage is awesome....My Vision Spinners are variable voltage. I never vary the voltage though.

They just don't hit like cigarettes do. I can't think of the name of it, but there was a product that actually vaporized tobacco. I may have to dig it up because I think that's more appealing but IIRC it wasn't a cost savings over cigarettes - and plus they always get you with the high up-front cost just to see if you like their product.

I used to smoke these:

[d2pzmkulz8di6u.cloudfront.net image 480x654]

Eclipse, but they don't sell them around here anymore. They're basically pre-packaged vaporizers which use charcoal that is lit as a heat source. Not quite as clean as an e-cig or electronic vaporizer, but much cleaner than conventional cigs.


I didn't name the brand because they don't pay me to advertise, but the one I chose is number 2 on this list:
Link
I spent about 125 for the kit, and then another 20 for the tank. I don't know how much on extras.
The other thing you should do is watch the user videos on youtube. Lot's of good tips.
For me it was a good investment.
 
2013-01-27 07:16:53 PM  

omeganuepsilon: mjbok: There was a group of us that were all friends growing up. We all drank, smoked weed, and some of us smoked. Some of us still did. There was one guy who never did any of that stuff. Never smoked, did drugs, or drank (much, he might have had a beer or two, here and there.) At the age of 25 went in for a routine doctor's visit. Lung cancer. Was dead two months later.

//The funny thing is if he had EVER smoked he would be a smoking statistic.

In the past couple/several decades, a lot of deaths have been contributed to smoking that weren't necessarily apt. Spent entire life in construction, in steel mills, grain bins, paint manufacturers, and ripping out asbestos? At age 98? Ah, he smoked cigarettes, that's the cause!

From what I've read, it's more about genetics than cigarettes specifically. Some people are prone to have their dna break down, and those that are can have it happen from a multitude of sources/triggers. That's the nature of entropy. We all break down eventually.

Yes, death is saddening. But to villify others is just as bad, if not worse. No, Average wasn't doing that, but others in the thread are.

Ordinary Average Guy: Some of you smokers who read this will suffer the same fate.

Challenge accepted?

Yes. I enjoy life, and know full well the risks. In my opinion, I'm richer than most who life a frugal and sheltered life of sacrifice who sneer when they see others enjoying themselves.

I really am sorry for your loss, I cannot imagine losing someone that close. I know it's maybe hard to hear, and you've maybe heard it already making that worse, but try to be happy that you had the time you did, try not to wallow in regret.(I mean well here, hell, maybe you don't have family and friends telling you this, I really don't know).

I had an aunt who lost her husband about a year ago, but it was not sudden, it was drug out over months and years. Utterly horrific for all involved, living with that impending certainty and the need t ...


I am thankful that she did not suffer very long, minutes, actually, and I have have children and grandchildren. she was involved in a MVA 20 years ago this year that left her disabled, so every day in those ensuing years truly was a blessing. Its just that 33 years was not enough.
 
2013-01-27 07:33:43 PM  

Ordinary Average Guy: Its just that 33 years was not enough.


No matter how long you knew someone, if they're close, it's never long enough.

When I go, I want people I knew to celebrate my life. Drown themselves in drinking and merriment, if they're able, for a night, spend a day laughing off the terrible hangover and the shenanigans of the night before, and then move on with life. Everyone wants to be remembered, but no one really wants to be a drain, for others to suffer once they're gone.
 
2013-01-27 07:57:16 PM  

skantea: I didn't name the brand because they don't pay me to advertise, but the one I chose is number 2 on this list:
Link
I spent about 125 for the kit, and then another 20 for the tank. I don't know how much on extras.
The other thing you should do is watch the user videos on youtube. Lot's of good tips.
For me it was a good investment.


Interesting. Maybe I'll try it. My biggest concern is that I might be more addicted to nicotine than when I quit smoking. It's sort of hard to quantify without medical tests.

Nicotine is a bad drug kids, don't even start. Do something safe like crack instead.
 
2013-01-27 07:58:01 PM  
If people don't know by now that smoking is bad for them, then all the money in the world spent on tv ads isn't going to do any good.

Its like living on fast food. If people want to do that to themselves, then fark'em.
 
2013-01-27 08:42:38 PM  

omeganuepsilon: In the past couple/several decades, a lot of deaths have been contributed to smoking that weren't necessarily apt. Spent entire life in construction, in steel mills, grain bins, paint manufacturers, and ripping out asbestos? At age 98? Ah, he smoked cigarettes, that's the cause!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment

Calment smoked from the age of 21 (1896) to 117 (1992), though according to an unspecified source, she smoked no more than two cigarettes per day. After her operation, Calment needed to use a wheelchair. She weighed 45 kilograms (99 lb) in 1994.
 
2013-01-27 09:20:10 PM  

letthepossumlive: I failed every time I tried to quit smoking.
Then I decided I no longer wanted to smoke. It was easy to stop.
Not sure why. Maybe it took the focus off of the cigs and onto me or I could visualize myself not smoking ,
If that makes sense to anyone and you want to stop, give it a shot. It's free.


Yup...woke up one day with a harsh throat from the previous night and realized I was fifty years old, been smoking since I was fifteen and that was farking long enough.

(checks Stop Smoking tracker)

290 days smoke free, $1740 saved
 
2013-01-27 10:01:03 PM  
i47.tinypic.com

it'z verking!
 
2013-01-28 05:41:43 AM  

Salmon: Me too. I farted until my late thirties but got sick of getting sick and quit.


i.ytimg.com
 
2013-01-28 12:35:45 PM  

lstywnch: It's completely different for someone to say, "I truly believe you standing there and smoking is affecting my health adversely and would appreciate you not doing it around me," than it is to say, "OMG That stinks and you stink and I hate you because you stink!!" One is a very adult thing to say, and one sounds like a third grader.


You're assuming too much. The fact is that I can immediately identify someone who smokes inside because the stale cigarette smoke stinks terribly... it smells worse than kitchen garbage to me sometimes. I can smell outdoor smokers much of the time too. I'm an ex-smoker and I honestly don't worry about second-hand smoke. I don't do the stupid, fake cough many non-smokers do. If my mom is visiting and wants to smoke in my car, I let her.

Cigars are banned in most places that still allow cigarettes for the reason you give above. Many cigarette smokers who fully realize they're harming their own health, think that cigars stink. Stinks in this case means actually stinking, not in the 3rd grade form you cite.

Having said that, I think any business should be permitted to allow smoking if they choose. Simply put a sign on the door that says "smoking permitted in this establishment." Even though I no longer smoke, I prefer bars where smoking is allowed.
 
2013-01-28 02:09:46 PM  
Hot Topic!

People do stuff that is unhealthy. Holy Fark!

News at 11.
 
2013-01-28 04:19:27 PM  

DON.MAC: Also the electronic cigarettes are banned unless they have no nicotine.


That's farking stupid. Ecigarettes are the most proven way to quit smoking actual tobacco. So they're making it even more difficult to quit.
 
2013-01-28 07:33:52 PM  

RockChalkH1N1: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

It's not the same


yeah but they're missing an MAOI-B inhibitor named harmine
which *enhances* the high and makes it more addictive
 
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