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(AZCentral)   Arizona Senator's suggests that if we really want to get tough with Cuba, we should allow free travel to the country and let the spring breakers do the rest   (azcentral.com) divider line 71
    More: Spiffy, Robert Menendez, U.S. Sen, D-Mass, Senate Foreign Relations Committee  
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5062 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jan 2013 at 10:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-27 01:06:54 PM  

Lsherm: hubiestubert: In fairness, ending this ban on travel, and letting market forces work is probably the way to go. We hold onto our policy because there is a generation of Cuban expatriates who dream that they will regain what they had, and with great vengeance. They are quietly dying off. If anything, the looming threat of the US has cohesed the Cuban government and made their position stronger. Open the doors and let the market do the rest.

With the death of the USSR Cuba got marginally weaker, but they became a much bigger player with oil money in South America.  The US can't let them off the hook yet, if only because Venezuela has turned into a shiathole simply to funnel money to Cuba.

If Cuba wants to play nice, we can play nice, but they are going to have to give up delusions of grandeur about running all of South America by proxy.


Right, only the U.S. should be able to install dictators and wage war on peasants.

You still have stock in United Fruit don't you?
 
2013-01-27 01:20:17 PM  

Lunchlady: Rozinante: JasonOfOrillia: I'm sure the last thing any Brits or Spaniards or Germans or Canadians want is another tropical vacation spot overrun with Americans.

Don't worry, most of them still don't have passports.

Ya cause Germans and brits are such peaches on vacation.


I dunno - when I was living in Antigua the Brits were ok...just a little confused.
 
2013-01-27 01:23:11 PM  
I'll admit it... I voted against Jeff Flake for a variety of reasons... including that in person, he's a bit of a dick...
however...I think he has finally come up with a good idea.
The Soviet Union didn't collapse from internal struggle... it collapsed because they wanted Big Macs and all the other cool stuff that us capitalist running-dog lackeys get.
Considering that they haven't had a new Chevy since 1958, a GM dealership could seriously wreck their whole economy.
 
2013-01-27 01:30:11 PM  

theflatline: Not so much that, the Cuban Missile Crisis is the real reason, they let Russia park nukes there.


I suspect there's also some residual butt-hurt from the failed Bay of Pigs invasion.
 
2013-01-27 01:30:47 PM  

Silly_Sot: Lsherm: hubiestubert: In fairness, ending this ban on travel, and letting market forces work is probably the way to go. We hold onto our policy because there is a generation of Cuban expatriates who dream that they will regain what they had, and with great vengeance. They are quietly dying off. If anything, the looming threat of the US has cohesed the Cuban government and made their position stronger. Open the doors and let the market do the rest.

With the death of the USSR Cuba got marginally weaker, but they became a much bigger player with oil money in South America.  The US can't let them off the hook yet, if only because Venezuela has turned into a shiathole simply to funnel money to Cuba.

And Cuba is willing to take it because it specifically tweaks the USA's stupid little ban. Communism is not fought by becoming communists, but the right-wing commies in the USA refuse to understand this. A collectivist system in which "industry" is so closely in control of government that the two are indisitinguishable is communism in all but name, after all. It doesn't how much it might wave around the American flag and carry the Cross.


WTF are you blathering about?
 
2013-01-27 01:53:42 PM  
There is no travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.

There is a ban on Americans spending USD in Cuba. There's a difference.
 
2013-01-27 02:04:03 PM  

Moopy Mac: theflatline: Gunderson: Flint Ironstag: Always wondered why the US banned all travel and trade with Cuba while buying billions of dollars of Chinese goods. They're both communist.

Because Cuba farked with the Mob. And since the Mob and the politicians in the US are intertwined, using the Transitive property of Farking, they farked with the US government.

Not so much that, the Cuban Missile Crisis is the real reason, they let Russia park nukes there.

.

The full embargo was in effect 8 months before the Cuban Missile Crisis.


I should have wordered it "the real reason the embargo remains."
 
2013-01-27 02:12:36 PM  

Fark Rye For Many Whores: Or it could be the other way around.


Check out her pupils.

She don't lie, cocaine.
 
2013-01-27 02:32:11 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Which is funneled in by the government. Let it happen on the street level...give the individual Cuban a crack at making some bank off the capitalist running dogs. Shiat will change post haste.


And here we have myself and DIA in complete agreement. Yes, the sky is green, fish are in trees, and rivers are running backwards.
 
2013-01-27 02:48:54 PM  
I've been to Cuba a couple of times and it's pretty much southern Atlantic City (not a good thing). The sad part is that there is a ton of potential to recapture the glory days (beautiful climate, gorgous scenery) but they would have to import management to do so. And then it would become southern Las Vegas instead (not a good thing). America never should have banned travel and trade in the first place. Blue jeans, IPhones, and rock & roll are much more effective in defeating communism than bombs and guns.
 
2013-01-27 02:54:34 PM  

theorellior: Dancin_In_Anson: Which is funneled in by the government. Let it happen on the street level...give the individual Cuban a crack at making some bank off the capitalist running dogs. Shiat will change post haste.

And here we have myself and DIA in complete agreement. Yes, the sky is green, fish are in trees, and rivers are running backwards.


Pretty damn much. In this case, all three of us are in complete agreement. Gabriel may be warming up for his solo if we're not careful...
 
2013-01-27 03:11:56 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Always wondered why the US banned all travel and trade with Cuba while buying billions of dollars of Chinese goods. They're both communist.


China is communist in name only.
 
2013-01-27 03:15:51 PM  
The Sun ran a story last week about this immigrant who was claiming £14,508 in benefits a year:

img.thesun.co.uk

Turns out that she was an actress. Oops.
 
2013-01-27 03:17:14 PM  
Posted in the wrong thread like an idiot. Oops. :(
 
2013-01-27 03:18:11 PM  

amquelbettamin: Nice apostrophe, jackass.


Came for this.
 
2013-01-27 03:18:55 PM  

Tunney: Posted in the wrong thread like an idiot. Oops. :(


I was going to say you wanted the 'Creepy Wrinkled Feet of Belarus' thread but I see you caught yourself.
 
2013-01-27 05:15:51 PM  
Well, the bay of pigs.........

I got nothing.
 
2013-01-27 06:00:08 PM  
I've been to Cuba, and the biggest problem with the US and Cuban relationship is that the extremists are the people leading the discussion.

The formal US position on Cuba seems to be we want to restore some semblance of an old regime where the major cornerstones of the economy were booze, gambling and hookers, and most people were illiterate fruit-pickers.

Problem is, restoring Cuba to that model doesn't have popular support in Cuba (duh) - it's now a literate country with good health care and education but shortages of a lot of consumer goods and probably not many options for people who have big dreams. Castro's "revolution" was twenty hipsters in a boat who were helped out by a majority of people and groups they met.

Would the average Cuban like more liberty and democracy in their system? I'm sure the answer is yes, but going back to being the booze, gambling and hooker capital of the Carribean isn't what they want to see. Did some people get screwed over by the Cuban revolution? Yes, war is hell.

The way forward is probably for the US to declare the current Cuban government to be the legitimate government of the island, and that compensation for the Cuban revolution is an internal Cuban matter, followed by an announcement that the U.S. government will lift sanctions on Cuba in phase with certain benchmarks around free and fair elections, market reforms, and lifting travel and media restrictions.

I suspect my plan would work, because I don't think the current Cuban government has much succession planning underway for the inevitable demise of the Castro brothers, and the US doesn't suffer a huge loss of face - of course, this wouldn't fly in some delusional parts of the American electorate.

How would this affect Margaritaville? I don't know. The Mayan Riveria is much nicer and more well-developed spot (although louder, more expensive and more crass), and it would take years for the Cuban travel industry to catch up.
 
2013-01-27 07:52:49 PM  

theorellior: And here we have myself and DIA in complete agreement. Yes, the sky is green, fish are in trees, and rivers are running backwards.


hubiestubert: Pretty damn much. In this case, all three of us are in complete agreement. Gabriel may be warming up for his solo if we're not careful...


It happens to everyone sooner or later...don't worry. it's a good thing.
 
2013-01-27 08:34:08 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: theorellior: And here we have myself and DIA in complete agreement. Yes, the sky is green, fish are in trees, and rivers are running backwards.

hubiestubert: Pretty damn much. In this case, all three of us are in complete agreement. Gabriel may be warming up for his solo if we're not careful...

It happens to everyone sooner or later...don't worry. it's a good thing.


True 'nuff.
 
2013-01-28 07:20:27 AM  
REALLY??? All this an NO pictures of hot, spring break girls with low self-esteem???
 
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