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(Breitbart.com)   Two suburban housewives are led away in handcuffs for refusing to let smart meters be hooked to their homes. Carry on, citizen   (breitbart.com) divider line 318
    More: Scary, smart meters, handcuffs, energy meter, Chicago metropolitan area, The Blaze  
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18908 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jan 2013 at 8:08 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-27 10:13:35 PM

italie: If we really believe in the whole "We the people" thing, our problems are a lot deeper than gun control and electricity management. We run this country. We are the government. Hording guns or blocking meter installations aren't the answer to the problem, they are the start of a new one.

I've been to other countries. We don't have it all that bad. If someone wants to require a fancy meter on my house for me to get power, so be it. If the government has the ability to tell when I'm taking a shait, so be it. If they arbitrarily and unreasonably decide to cut my power, then I have an issue. If I want to prevent that scenario, I have two decent options. Stand up with my fellow citizens and fight it in a democratic manner, or cut myself off the grid and make my own power.

Shooting my AK into the sky while shouting FRREEEEEEDDDOOOOMMMMM just doesn't seem like it accomplishes much anything of point, nor does it produce power.


Well, you contradict yourself. You snort at the idea of "We The People", but then go on to claim that we're still in charge even if we're powerless to prevent incessant encroachment of our privacy and liberty.

Speak for yourself when you say you don't mind having a compulsory GPS probe up your ass. It's not patriotic to capitulate. How easily you give lip service to the rationale that the capabilities of the new meters, and by extension similar technological intrusions, provide worthwhile advantages. No advantages are worth allowing your privacy and liberty to be chipped away. Now I've done it. Those are probably words the NSA flags.

Why does the utility company need real-time data? Because fark you, that's why. They could make power saving decisions based on hourly readings. They could provide the existing level of service with one reading per billing period. But no, it's real-time, it's compulsory, and there's no opt-out. Because fark you. They could accommodate the tiny tiny number of people who want their analog meters, but no. Seriously no, and we'll send armed goons to drag you away to a cage if you resist, citizen. Enjoy your momentary hope of seeing a drop in your utilities bill. You weren't given any promises, and you're not entitled to promises. Whatcha going to do about it now? We took your guns, hahahaha!
 
2013-01-27 10:58:33 PM

Austinoftx: italie: If we really believe in the whole "We the people" thing, our problems are a lot deeper than gun control and electricity management. We run this country. We are the government. Hording guns or blocking meter installations aren't the answer to the problem, they are the start of a new one.

I've been to other countries. We don't have it all that bad. If someone wants to require a fancy meter on my house for me to get power, so be it. If the government has the ability to tell when I'm taking a shait, so be it. If they arbitrarily and unreasonably decide to cut my power, then I have an issue. If I want to prevent that scenario, I have two decent options. Stand up with my fellow citizens and fight it in a democratic manner, or cut myself off the grid and make my own power.

Shooting my AK into the sky while shouting FRREEEEEEDDDOOOOMMMMM just doesn't seem like it accomplishes much anything of point, nor does it produce power.

Well, you contradict yourself. You snort at the idea of "We The People", but then go on to claim that we're still in charge even if we're powerless to prevent incessant encroachment of our privacy and liberty.

Speak for yourself when you say you don't mind having a compulsory GPS probe up your ass. It's not patriotic to capitulate. How easily you give lip service to the rationale that the capabilities of the new meters, and by extension similar technological intrusions, provide worthwhile advantages. No advantages are worth allowing your privacy and liberty to be chipped away. Now I've done it. Those are probably words the NSA flags.

Why does the utility company need real-time data? Because fark you, that's why. They could make power saving decisions based on hourly readings. They could provide the existing level of service with one reading per billing period. But no, it's real-time, it's compulsory, and there's no opt-out. Because fark you. They could accommodate the tiny tiny number of people who want their analog meters, but no. Serious ...



I'm not contradicting in any way, because I don't feel a smart meter is an unwelcome invasion of privacy. It's also something that I could choose to bypass, leaving me in complete control of said privacy. Power is not a right allotted to me in the constitution, it's a luxury that I am afforded to choose.

The real time data is a valid "thing" that both the power company, and myself, could benefit from. It would be mighty nice to be able to log onto a website and manage my usage. I could actually see how much I'm saving by switching to CFLs, or if that electric heater in the garage is costing more than it's worth. It's a nicety to me, and I welcome it. To the power company, that info is invaluable. Instead of lobbying my state house and senate for another year to jack up fees, they'll find better ways to manage the power they currently generate. Yes, it is that big of a deal. Having real time feedback as to demand would be the next best thing to discovering loss-less transmission. Creating electricity cost money. For every KW they don't have to generate, that is a few dollars they won't have to force on me. At the very least it's a natural resource of one sort or another that gets saved.

Hell, I could still get my daily info from the morning paper so that Google (and the goburnment!) couldn't track my surfing habits. Just seems a bit easier to not give a shait, and use the internet. If some dude from the NSA wants to look at my fark posts and realize that I had nothing better to do on a Sunday night than to discuss this crap, OK by me. (Hi, Mr. NSA guy!)

Dragging her away in cuffs wan't a government conspiracy. It was a poor choice by some piss-ant cops who she ticked off. Was arresting her a little harsh? Probably. Could BOTH sides have prevented it? Yes. This is much ado about nothing. The world is evolving. Come along for the ride.


// If the government really is planning to lockup it's populace, you'd think they would be building more prisons about now....
 
2013-01-28 12:10:10 AM

italie: I'm not contradicting in any way, because I don't feel a smart meter is an unwelcome invasion of privacy. It's also something that I could choose to bypass, leaving me in complete control of said privacy. Power is not a right allotted to me in the constitution, it's a luxury that I am afforded to choose.


Well, the forces at play are working in your favor. You'll very likely get the real-time smart meter you desire. One wonders what your motive is to hit the campaign trail here to try and shush down silly folks like me who don't want such gifts.

// If the government really is planning to lockup it's populace, you'd think they would be building more prisons about now....

Except... oh, right. They are.
 
2013-01-28 01:46:09 AM

Austinoftx: italie: I'm not contradicting in any way, because I don't feel a smart meter is an unwelcome invasion of privacy. It's also something that I could choose to bypass, leaving me in complete control of said privacy. Power is not a right allotted to me in the constitution, it's a luxury that I am afforded to choose.

Well, the forces at play are working in your favor. You'll very likely get the real-time smart meter you desire. One wonders what your motive is to hit the campaign trail here to try and shush down silly folks like me who don't want such gifts.

// If the government really is planning to lockup it's populace, you'd think they would be building more prisons about now....

Except... oh, right. They are.


Funny, last I checked the Bureau of Prisons was broke, and borrowing beds from state institutions.
 
2013-01-28 02:16:05 AM

italie:
Funny, last I checked the Bureau of Prisons was broke, and borrowing beds from state institutions.


I'm so glad you came back!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States
The Land of the Free (tm) leads the world in stuffing it's population into cages.

Again, what are you here to argue for? You're getting your surveillance. You won't talk me into embracing it and you wouldn't benefit whether you did or not.
 
2013-01-28 03:59:44 AM
smartmeterpowerstruggle.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-28 04:01:14 AM

UseTheForksLuke: [smartmeterpowerstruggle.files.wordpress.com image 850x622]


That is also the waveform of the average dubstep track.
 
2013-01-28 05:56:59 AM
I'd love to have a wireless meter. Do you know easy those things are to hack?
 
2013-01-28 06:45:43 AM

rezaxis: od advice from Skirl. If I remember reading here earlier it was mentioned putting insulation directly against the underside of the roof. That is not a good thing. It will trap condensing moisture. Same with insulating the und


Depends on whether you use a humidity barrier or not.
 
2013-01-28 08:19:16 AM

Austinoftx: italie:
Funny, last I checked the Bureau of Prisons was broke, and borrowing beds from state institutions.

I'm so glad you came back!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States
The Land of the Free (tm) leads the world in stuffing it's population into cages.

Again, what are you here to argue for? You're getting your surveillance. You won't talk me into embracing it and you wouldn't benefit whether you did or not.


I guess I'm here to argue that your a little nutter. Maybe I'm here to complain that your arguments are always just a step to the right of proving the point you were making? I dunno, maybe I'm just bored.

Any way you slice it, I ~know~ I'm not here to convince you of anything. Land of the free 'n all. You have the the right to maintain your paranoid delusions, and I won't get in the way/
 
2013-01-28 10:17:34 AM

Vegetative reproduction: It seems signal transmission is intermittent and uses a mesh network. Stationary detection rather than drive by would be best to pull data, but you would get data from lots of meters at once. The data may be encrypted and with data from lots of meters at once, you would still have to match data pulled to each meter for useful information about any particular house.


I doubt they're using any encryption that's remotely strong, and the fact that a single device is being used to access an entire neighborhood indicates that it's probably weak as well. Also, it's easy to identify each house by making a fairly simple program to perform triangulation while accessing each meter multiple times as you move through the neighborhood. Sure, this isn't stuff that a crappy thief will do, but the ability for it to be done exists, and that's the problem.
 
2013-01-28 10:58:41 AM

This About That: 1. Collect your power bill without sending the meter reader out to your house.


This About That: The low power RF needed to drive-by read your meter


You didn't think your statement all the way through, did you?
 
2013-01-28 12:43:48 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Vegetative reproduction: It seems signal transmission is intermittent and uses a mesh network. Stationary detection rather than drive by would be best to pull data, but you would get data from lots of meters at once. The data may be encrypted and with data from lots of meters at once, you would still have to match data pulled to each meter for useful information about any particular house.

I doubt they're using any encryption that's remotely strong, and the fact that a single device is being used to access an entire neighborhood indicates that it's probably weak as well. Also, it's easy to identify each house by making a fairly simple program to perform triangulation while accessing each meter multiple times as you move through the neighborhood. Sure, this isn't stuff that a crappy thief will do, but the ability for it to be done exists, and that's the problem.


A thief that technically skilled probably wouldn't waste his time stealing from the average home. If you are rich enough to worry about theft from professionals, you are rich enough to pay the monthly fee to have a non-smartmeter (not that that would matter since a smart thief could use other methods to track your activity).

Have you known anyone who was burglarized by professionals? My friends have only been burglarized by kids and drug addicts using tools to pry open windows or bricks to smash windows. In every case the damage to property exceeded the value of property stolen (small electronics and prescription medication).
 
2013-01-28 05:52:53 PM

Vegetative reproduction: A thief that technically skilled probably wouldn't waste his time stealing from the average home. If you are rich enough to worry about theft from professionals, you are rich enough to pay the monthly fee to have a non-smartmeter (not that that would matter since a smart thief could use other methods to track your activity).

Have you known anyone who was burglarized by professionals? My friends have only been burglarized by kids and drug addicts using tools to pry open windows or bricks to smash windows. In every case the damage to property exceeded the value of property stolen (small electronics and prescription medication).


There's no reason to believe it would be expensive or difficult to hack this radio mesh. It's amazing what schoolboys with a spare bit of wire are doing these days. Out of boredom. Picture someone within range of the aggregation node (or possibly any node) who sniffs the encrypted data for several hours, or days, cracks it, and from that point forward can sit in the comfort of his room and watch real-time power consumption of all 236 of his closest neighbors. Open-source software will be developed by someone to auto-tag the spikes and patterns, and identify the service addresses with or without a little wardriving. A black market could open up for this kind of data.

It pains me that all of this vulnerability would be avoided by a little obligatory respect for the customer's privacy built into the system. The meters could simply be designed to send out consumption data once a month. Or once a day. Or once an hour IF the temperature is high or low enough that AC or heat will be rumbling.
 
2013-01-28 06:03:05 PM

italie: I guess I'm here to argue that your a little nutter. Maybe I'm here to complain that your arguments are always just a step to the right of proving the point you were making? I dunno, maybe I'm just bored. Any way you slice it, I ~know~ I'm not here to convince you of anything. Land of the free 'n all. You have the the right to maintain your paranoid delusions, and I won't get in the way/


Head, meet sand.
 
2013-01-28 07:35:52 PM
and yall keep voting Democrat....
 
2013-01-28 10:20:29 PM

Austinoftx: italie: I guess I'm here to argue that your a little nutter. Maybe I'm here to complain that your arguments are always just a step to the right of proving the point you were making? I dunno, maybe I'm just bored. Any way you slice it, I ~know~ I'm not here to convince you of anything. Land of the free 'n all. You have the the right to maintain your paranoid delusions, and I won't get in the way/

Head, meet sand.


We're going to the beach? Oh joy!
 
2013-01-28 11:21:32 PM

italie: We're going to the beach? Oh joy!


Yes, it's this lovely place called Omaha Beach. The commanders aren't expecting to see any conflict.
 
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