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(Breitbart.com)   Two suburban housewives are led away in handcuffs for refusing to let smart meters be hooked to their homes. Carry on, citizen   (breitbart.com) divider line 318
    More: Scary, smart meters, handcuffs, energy meter, Chicago metropolitan area, The Blaze  
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18913 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jan 2013 at 8:08 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-27 11:32:08 AM  

HoneyDog: Seriously. Time to stop posting. You're just embarrassing yourself.

Take your own advice. You were proven wrong when you accused me of making things up.


Honey, outlined in those TOS is the fact that the meter and service equipment is the power company's property. They also are guaranteed access to it. Look at your local regs again.
 
2013-01-27 11:33:17 AM  

Void_Beavis: And yes, the electric company owns those meters. It's their property. Like it or not they can do whatever they bloody well please with them. And if they have a court order (which they did in this case, hence the police escort) you legally have no recourse.


Well, they should have found a way to access their property without trespassing on someone else's property. This whole "We'll get a judge to let us break the law" thing is what people are up in arms about. They are trespassing on someone else's property.

Why is the electric company's property more important than their customer's* property?

*I use the term loosely, since "customer" implies a relationship where there's a choice.
 
2013-01-27 11:36:01 AM  
Ah, wifi fear. Nothing like suffering due to your own rebranding.

It's a freaking walkie talkie for Christ's sake.
 
2013-01-27 11:36:52 AM  
Alright...I work at a public power utility. I was on the team to evaluate a business case for deploying smart meters. We have a test center with different types of smart meters to learn more about their behaviors. We've also disassembled a few.

The two biggest benefits provide immediately to a utility are the ability to remotely read the meter without sending anyone out to either visually see the meter or drive by it and the tell the utility your power is out without anyone having to notify us. Item one saves on personnel and vehicle costs. Item two allows us to respond to outage faster. The faster we get the power back on, the faster we start earning revenue again.

The ability to do a remote power on/off is available as an option on many meters. It's essentially a relay switch within the meter. The one I'm most familiar with can only be remotely powered on/off a few times before the meter has to be replaced. This option has to be specifically ordered with the meter and it is about $100 extra per meter. We considered them for customers who have a history of nonpayment.

The ability to watch the power load curves throughout the day is another optional setting. Yes, we can probably infer when you wake up, leave, come home, etc. But unless we are actually watching your house, we would be guessing, Yes, we can infer when your dryer or stove went on. But we don't know unless we see you turn it on or you put sensors on your appliances that you allowed to be hooked to your smart meter and report it to us. We don't have the time nor the people to monitor things like this. We have enough problems dealing with federal regulations and keeping the power on.

Unless you give us the ability, we cannot turn on or off your AC. You would need to put a remote control device on your AC and then give us access to it.

Your microwave puts out more radiation than the meter does.

Security of meter data is a huge issue and I'm not convinced they have it locked down yet. Could someone hack the meter and shut it down? Quite possibly. Would someone take the time to hack one person at a time? Probably not. They would probably try to kill a few thousand meters at once. Or just attack the transmission grid itself.

For most utilities, we own everything up to the meter. The meter socket, the weatherhead, and the line down to the service panel belong to the customer. We retain the right to access and maintain our equipment, including the meter. If we find the customer equipment to be damaged and a danger, we will remove our meter, disconnect the service line, and will not reenergize the house until repairs are made and inspected.

For our utility, the thought behind giving people access to their load data is so that they can choose to conserve energy or not. We would just be providing data and answering questions on said data. The final result of our study was that installing smart meters was a break even proposition over a 15 year pay back. We almost pulled the trigger on the project, but we needed to replace a few IT systems first to handle the amount of data. We'll probably do something in afew years.
 
2013-01-27 11:38:57 AM  

Mechanicum: HoneyDog: Seriously. Time to stop posting. You're just embarrassing yourself.

Take your own advice. You were proven wrong when you accused me of making things up.

Honey, outlined in those TOS is the fact that the meter and service equipment is the power company's property. They also are guaranteed access to it. Look at your local regs again.


Correct. Additionally it's against the law to deny access to the power company to service their equipment on your property. And it's against the law to tamper with that equipment, or to threaten or perform violent acts to those service people. It's also against the law to allow your attack dog to guard that property, denying access to it.

Fact remains, these are laws. They've been in existence for quite some time. They've been challenged in court. If you don't like them, you may also challenge them or vote for someone who will repeal them in your legislature. But to wave your arms around claiming its a totalitarian takeover is not only disingenuous, it's asinine.
 
2013-01-27 11:39:12 AM  

Mrtraveler01: mr_a: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01-24/news/chi-naperville-sma r t-meter-arrest-20130123_1_meter-opponents-smart-meter-wireless-meters

Seems legit.  And Jenny seems hot.

//not subby

FTFA:

Two vocal opponents of Naperville's initiative to install wireless electric meters on homes were arrested after interfering with the installation process, according to city officials.

This is a city ordinance they're fighting against? It's not even a Federal or State Law they're protesting? So why is Breitbart biatching?

Jesus Christ, just move to Aurora, Plainfield, or Joliet already and STFU.


Naperville has serious coin, the others are shiat holes - plus gangs.

/lived and born in aurora...had to go
//was nice in the 70's
 
2013-01-27 11:39:52 AM  
 
2013-01-27 11:40:01 AM  
These women are not mentally competent to raise children. They should have been taken away and locked up a long time ago, along with everyone else who believes that the RF emitted by a smart meter is somehow going to kill them, when none of the other radiation emitting devices in their homes will.

Get a farking life, Breitbart. The world will be better when we round up your collection of drooling idiots, too.
 
2013-01-27 11:40:39 AM  
Honey, outlined in those TOS is the fact that the meter and service equipment is the power company's property. They also are guaranteed access to it. Look at your local regs again.

Where did I say the meter wasn't their property? Where did I say they couldn't come read it. The fact is though, I did not sign a contract. In fact, in the case of the electricity, when I called the electric company to "start service" I was notified by the company that the people we bought the house from notified the electric company that they sold the house to us.
 
2013-01-27 11:40:51 AM  

Mattbastard: mrlewish: Solution. Solar panels.
Insulated bolt cutters.

Actually...

[media.thereadystore.com image 365x320]
Seriously, put it around the meter.


It also makes great reflectors for government mind control.

weeklyworldnews.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-27 11:42:20 AM  
So, if I understand the article correctly, they got arrested, in part, for violating a law that SCOTUS just found unconstitutional. Brilliant.
 
2013-01-27 11:43:24 AM  

HoneyDog: Seriously. Time to stop posting. You're just embarrassing yourself.

Take your own advice. You were proven wrong when you accused me of making things up.


My god, anybody reading this thread will see that you assumed that the power company could turn your AC down with these meters since you asked about it's affect on your dog/s. Then when it was proven that they couldn't, you played it off as "that's not what I meant" and "I''m not that dumb" when your own comments show otherwise. Then you claim that you didn't actually sign anything like a contract and when it's shown that you don't have to and a verbal contract is enough for them to cut your power/read your meter/access your property you're still acting like a moron about it. This entire thread has been a big farking FAIL on your part and all you're doing is making yourself look foolish(which is pretty hard to do on Fark). Anybody reading through it can see that. And WhippingBoy is right, you should have stopped while you were ahead.
 
2013-01-27 11:43:43 AM  

skylabdown: Private property rights are a nice fantasy.


To my knowledge, no one is forced to use public utilities, and the property easements that come along with them.
 
2013-01-27 11:45:05 AM  
My god, anybody reading this thread will see that you assumed that the power company could turn your AC down with these meters since you asked about it's affect on your dog/s. T

Keep reading, in one post I point blank said that I said that tongue in cheek. Thanks for playing though.
 
2013-01-27 11:45:26 AM  

fredklein: phaseolus: Maybe my imagination is failing me, here, but I can't conceive of any reason how a power utility could possibly benefit from a.) collecting and b.) paying attention to that kind of data on an individual house basis.

One simple example: "People in this neighborhood turn on their TVs at 5:30. Maybe a business in that neighborhood might like to buy advertising at 5:31??"


If you're claiming that these things are monitoring individual appliances, that's a pretty extraordinary claim that I believes deserves a citation.
 
2013-01-27 11:46:13 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: When I first moved into my apartment here, I was leaving for work and a woman dressed in the power utility uniform tried to enter the building just as I left. We have an automatic door which requires either a key or someone to buzz you in. She had been standing just outside the door waiting for someone to come out so she could sneak in.

I stopped her and asked her what she was doing trying to sneak in. She said she was coming to check the power meter. Granted the power meters for each apartment are on the inside of the building, and so the power company reader would have to come into the building somehow.

I ushered her back outside and suggested she call the building manager if she wanted access. We waited outside the automatic door until it closed and locked and I left for work. I suppose she stood around the entrance until someone else came out.

I don't have a problem with power meter readers coming in, but I'm certainly not the one to be authorizing that kind of thing for the whole building. If they need to read the meters, they should either have an access key or have an appointment with the manager to let them in. Sneaking in by skulking around the door waiting for people to leave seems really unprofessional and suspicious.


So does your landlord not providing a key or meeting the meter reader in front of the building.
 
2013-01-27 11:47:19 AM  
I wonder which one of these idiots would vote for the massive tax increases and higher power costs, not to mention the environmental impact, of having to upgrade our aging power grid "dumbly" just so they can have their "rights". Which aren't even "rights" at all since the power company actually owns this equipment.

Something tells me none of them.
 
2013-01-27 11:47:55 AM  

Beretta3000: The two biggest benefits provide immediately to a utility are the ability to remotely read the meter without sending anyone out to either visually see the meter or drive by it and the tell the utility your power is out without anyone having to notify us. Item one saves on personnel and vehicle costs.


Why should I be worried about your company's costs? Unless the power company is planning on passing those savings on to me in the form of a reduced bill (LOL ROFL)

What instead ends up happening, is that the cost savings of smart meters do not get passed to customers. People who opt out simply get charged extra. So, I'm paying the same rate to help the power company save money, and my neighbor (who doesn't have a smart meter) gets his rates jacked up just because fark you). So whether or not you submit to having a smart meter, you're still getting screwed and the power company wins.
 
2013-01-27 11:48:04 AM  
I think that if those people don't want to have power company equipment so they can have power they don't have to. It isn't a right or anything. Cut their power and be done with them.
 
2013-01-27 11:48:09 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Well, they should have found a way to access their property without trespassing on someone else's property. This whole "We'll get a judge to let us break the law" thing is what people are up in arms about. They are trespassing on someone else's property.

Why is the electric company's property more important than their customer's* property?

*I use the term loosely, since "customer" implies a relationship where there's a choice.


You are also using the term trespassing very loosely, since that implies illegal access. They could have chosen to keep their old meters and pay the fee, but refused. Or they could have chosen not to get electricity. Either was their right, but they did not have the right to stop the electric company accessing the meters. But since they still want electricity, they have to have a meter, and that meter is part of the utility easement.

From the Illinois Commerce Commission Rules Applicable to Electric and Natural Gas Utilities:
Under Theft of Services:
Tampering

Customers are prohibited by law from removing, tampering with, or bypassing the meter and must provide any authorized company representative access to the meter and the company's other equipment. The meter must be kept free from obstructions, pets must be restrained, and obstacles must be removed that would prevent the meter reader from correctly reading the meter.

Don't want to let them get to their meter? Don't get your electricity from them.
 
2013-01-27 11:48:49 AM  

Vegetative reproduction: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Mrtraveler01: And do they know that the electric company already keeps track of how much electricity they use?

Or am I missing the point here.

Rf devices are usually pretty easy to break into. They're not concerned with what info the electric company has on them, they're worried that these devices essentially open up their data for the world to see. And quite honestly, the fees they must pay to maintain the same type of data collection they always had are absurdly high.

It is a lot easier to walk up to a new or old fashioned meter and see how fast it is spinning than to scan for an RF signal.


Can you do that from your car? Can you do it on several houses at once? Can you manually check meters as fast as a signal can travel?

Walking into the yard of dozens of people will attract attention, driving slowly down the street will not.
 
2013-01-27 11:49:35 AM  

Beretta3000: Alright...I work at a public power utility. I was on the team to evaluate a business case for deploying smart meters. We have a test center with different types of smart meters to learn more about their behaviors. We've also disassembled a few.

The two biggest benefits provide immediately to a utility are the ability to remotely read the meter without sending anyone out to either visually see the meter or drive by it and the tell the utility your power is out without anyone having to notify us. Item one saves on personnel and vehicle costs. Item two allows us to respond to outage faster. The faster we get the power back on, the faster we start earning revenue again.

The ability to do a remote power on/off is available as an option on many meters. It's essentially a relay switch within the meter. The one I'm most familiar with can only be remotely powered on/off a few times before the meter has to be replaced. This option has to be specifically ordered with the meter and it is about $100 extra per meter. We considered them for customers who have a history of nonpayment.

The ability to watch the power load curves throughout the day is another optional setting. Yes, we can probably infer when you wake up, leave, come home, etc. But unless we are actually watching your house, we would be guessing, Yes, we can infer when your dryer or stove went on. But we don't know unless we see you turn it on or you put sensors on your appliances that you allowed to be hooked to your smart meter and report it to us. We don't have the time nor the people to monitor things like this. We have enough problems dealing with federal regulations and keeping the power on.

Unless you give us the ability, we cannot turn on or off your AC. You would need to put a remote control device on your AC and then give us access to it.

Your microwave puts out more radiation than the meter does.

Security of meter data is a huge issue and I'm not convinced they have it locked down yet. ...


No, you're wrong. Why should we take your word over the word of a housewife who has no degree in Electrical Engineering or any experience whatsoever with what she's talking about?
 
2013-01-27 11:49:41 AM  

HoneyDog: What the HELL are you talking about???

Do try to follow the conversation. I said, sarcastically, that why should a power company be allowed to use a smart meter to turn off my AC during the day when nobody is home. (obviously it isn't something possible at this time). Some fool thought should turn it off during the day or at least be charged a different rate. So my response is why should my dogs suffer or die because the AC is off during the day. The same fool said was my prerogative to have my AC on during the day. So I was merely mentioning that I have a programmable thermostat so I can set it to be warmer but not off when we are out of the house.

And as an aside, our local power company just was granted a rate increase. Why? Because so many of us were using our power wisely that they were losing money due to decreased demand. Fun little scenario: 1) urge people to use less so they save money, 2) people respond by getting more energy efficient gadgets and being wise with their power usage, 3) power company raises rates so all savings the people realized by following their original suggestions goes up in smoke.


Umm, quit talking, please. You're just making yourself look more stupid. A smart meter does not control the AC in your home. All it does is enable real time monitoring of your meter. People have explained this to you many times in this thread.
 
2013-01-27 11:49:55 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Void_Beavis: And yes, the electric company owns those meters. It's their property. Like it or not they can do whatever they bloody well please with them. And if they have a court order (which they did in this case, hence the police escort) you legally have no recourse.

Well, they should have found a way to access their property without trespassing on someone else's property. This whole "We'll get a judge to let us break the law" thing is what people are up in arms about. They are trespassing on someone else's property.

Why is the electric company's property more important than their customer's* property?

*I use the term loosely, since "customer" implies a relationship where there's a choice.


Except for the fact that this has been argued in court and defeated. Many times.
 
2013-01-27 11:50:37 AM  

HoneyDog: My god, anybody reading this thread will see that you assumed that the power company could turn your AC down with these meters since you asked about it's affect on your dog/s. T

Keep reading, in one post I point blank said that I said that tongue in cheek. Thanks for playing though.


Yeah, after you were called on it. Here's your exact question(your Weeners).

How do they know if there is nobody in the house? I work from home some days. And what about my dogs? Why should they suffer in the heat?

You were serious when you asked that question. When it was pointed out you were wrong you then proceeded to act as if that's not what you "really" meant. Now you're saying you were joking about it. No you weren't. And it's damn plain to see that you weren't.
 
2013-01-27 11:51:09 AM  

HoneyDog: My god, anybody reading this thread will see that you assumed that the power company could turn your AC down with these meters since you asked about it's affect on your dog/s. T

Keep reading, in one post I point blank said that I said that tongue in cheek. Thanks for playing though.


Oh for the love of Christ. No one is buying it. This was your Boobies and nothing seems to indicate it was tongue in cheek. This is perhaps one of the most stupid arguments I've seen on Fark in a very long time.

HoneyDog: 2. It allows the utility to adjust the price in real time against the real time demand, thus allowing us to adjust our usage to make the best use of the energy we buy. Charge the electric car or do the laundry at night. Turn off the air conditioner if everyone is at school or work during the hottest part of the day. Use the energy when it is cheapest. A dumb power meter can't tell the difference, but a smart meter can.


How do they know if there is nobody in the house? I work from home some days. And what about my dogs? Why should they suffer in the heat?


If you really were trying to come across as tongue in cheek, then you did a terrible job at it.
 
2013-01-27 11:52:06 AM  

udhq: To my knowledge, no one is forced to use public utilities, and the property easements that come along with them.


Fortunately, where I live, the weather extremes aren't deadly. But for many people, without electricity, they would die. And many places forbid stuff like diesel generators and solar panels (think townhomes/apartment complexes) So their choice is between the power company or death. Sounds like a legit choice.
 
2013-01-27 11:53:31 AM  

Bad_Seed: phaseolus: Maybe my imagination is failing me, here, but I can't conceive of any reason how a power utility could possibly benefit from a.) collecting and b.) paying attention to that kind of data on an individual house basis. Since that kind of data is the exact opposite of "interesting", why bother to collect it at all? Also, supposing they *did* do that, wouldn't they need some kind of super secret department with all its workers sworn to secrecy to make sure the embarrassing info doesn't become public? It makes more sense to me that a smart meter only keeps track of the Watt-hours used during the various billing periods.

You can't see the benefit of what amounts to a real time surveillance system inside people's homes? Well for one, lots of companies are willing to pay good money for that sort of information. You haven't noticed how all sorts of corporations are busy collecting every single scrap of data they can on people? You used to have to buy something by card, or type something into Google for them to get something. Now every time you switch something on, they get more info on you. Instead of a super secret department, there's a fine print clause in your contract saying they can use or sell your data in any way they wish.

I'm an electrical engineer, but my area of expertise is industrial controls & instrumentation as opposed to utilities and services, so I *could* be mistaken here -- any good Electrician should be better informed on this than I am, hopefully there's one on Fark who can weigh in and confirm or deny what I'm about to say -- but the component you'd need to remotely disconnect a 100A or 200A electrical service would be either an electromechanical or solid-state relay, either one of which would be physically large at those sizes - at least as big if not bigger than a traditional residential Watt-hour meter. Alternately they could mount these remotely somewhere, I guess. Me, I h ...

The manufacturer says they can. They don't go into details o ...


You read that wrong... it said it can disconnect the meter, not the power. There's a difference there when it comes to smart meters. Disconnecting the meter and reconnecting it is useful for when the connection goes wonky (which happens a lot in a wireless connection). And seeing as electric meters are connected to the system as a tap, not as a break point, phaseolus is correct, the meter itself cannot interrupt the power. There is still a manual cutoff that they would need to send out a technician for. Having just resided the house, and gotten my meter replaced with a smart meter, and as a network engineer by trade, I was very interested in this device going in and was present at the wiring. The technician was very helpful in describing what exactly the process was for how it monitors and what information it delivers. And I never lost power when they were switching the meter, so yeah, there's no break point in these meters. All they do is tap into the flow of electricity coming in (or out, depending on how you view the theory of electricity and electron flow) and measure how fast it's going.
 
2013-01-27 11:54:04 AM  
Ha, autocorrect change (your first) to (your Weeners) in my previous comment. How strange.
 
2013-01-27 11:54:13 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Beretta3000: The two biggest benefits provide immediately to a utility are the ability to remotely read the meter without sending anyone out to either visually see the meter or drive by it and the tell the utility your power is out without anyone having to notify us. Item one saves on personnel and vehicle costs.

Why should I be worried about your company's costs? Unless the power company is planning on passing those savings on to me in the form of a reduced bill (LOL ROFL)

What instead ends up happening, is that the cost savings of smart meters do not get passed to customers. People who opt out simply get charged extra. So, I'm paying the same rate to help the power company save money, and my neighbor (who doesn't have a smart meter) gets his rates jacked up just because fark you). So whether or not you submit to having a smart meter, you're still getting screwed and the power company wins.


For the private utilities, your point is dead on.

On the public utility side, we are trying to prevent future rate increases with this technology.
 
2013-01-27 11:54:31 AM  

roadmarks: Customers are prohibited by law from removing, tampering with, or bypassing the meter and must provide any authorized company representative access to the meter and the company's other equipment. The meter must be kept free from obstructions, pets must be restrained, and obstacles must be removed that would prevent the meter reader from correctly reading the meter.


I'll admit I didn't know that (a first on Fark for sure), however I'd say the fact that a trespass exemption is actually written in law is even more of an outrage!
 
2013-01-27 11:56:37 AM  

Void_Beavis: I wonder which one of these idiots would vote for the massive tax increases and higher power costs, not to mention the environmental impact, of having to upgrade our aging power grid "dumbly" just so they can have their "rights". Which aren't even "rights" at all since the power company actually owns this equipment.

Something tells me none of them.


This isn't upgrading our power grid in the slightest.  All it is doing is maximizing the amount of money the electric company can siphon off from you.

Our aging power grid (here in the Northeast) is still not completely repaired from a storm from late October.  Talk about a joke.  We're third farking world country when it comes to distributing energy. The German power grid has outages at an average rate of 21 minutes per year. (you read that right... an average of 21 minutes)
 
2013-01-27 12:00:51 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: roadmarks: Customers are prohibited by law from removing, tampering with, or bypassing the meter and must provide any authorized company representative access to the meter and the company's other equipment. The meter must be kept free from obstructions, pets must be restrained, and obstacles must be removed that would prevent the meter reader from correctly reading the meter.

I'll admit I didn't know that (a first on Fark for sure), however I'd say the fact that a trespass exemption is actually written in law is even more of an outrage!


Not sure I understand the outrage here. Would you require people to buy install and service their own meters for the power company? I think that could cause quite a few problems. Or do you think that someone should be able to keep the company from getting to the meter they own? What would the recourse be for the power company if someone tampered with it, or refused to let them read it?
 
2013-01-27 12:02:14 PM  

WhippingBoy:

No, you're wrong. Why should we take your word over the word of a housewife who has no degree in Electrical Engineering or any experience whatsoever with what she's talking about?


You're right. I don't know I was thinking.

/slinks back into the dark
 
2013-01-27 12:06:54 PM  
No, you didn't. You were called out and changed your story. Sort of how you refuse to provide evidence for the meters being a net cost.

Did you miss this? (and yep, it was posted by somebody else, but anybody could easily have found it if they weren't too lazy to look:

After receiving numerous complaints about health, hacking, and privacy concerns with the wireless digital devices, the Public Utility Commission of the US state of Maine voted to allow customers to opt out of the meter change at a cost of $12 a month.[18] In Connecticut, another US state to consider smart metering recently, regulators declined a request by the state's largest utility, Connecticut Light & Power, to install 1.2 million of the devices, arguing that the potential savings in electric bills do not justify the cost. CL&P already offers its customers time-based rates. The state's Attorney General George Jepsen was quoted as saying the proposal would cause customers to spend upwards of $500 million on meters and get few benefits in return, a claim that Connecticut Light & Power disputed.[19]
 
2013-01-27 12:07:57 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: machodonkeywrestler: HoneyDog: My god, anybody reading this thread will see that you assumed that the power company could turn your AC down with these meters since you asked about it's affect on your dog/s. T

Keep reading, in one post I point blank said that I said that tongue in cheek. Thanks for playing though.

No, you didn't. You were called out and changed your story. Sort of how you refuse to provide evidence for the meters being a net cost. Instead you told everyone to "Study it out" (ogoogle it). Or you refuse to believe that you entered a contract when you set up you electric acct. Stop being obtuse, I know you can't help being stupid.

I actually bothered to google it, and even posted a citation showing that the CT attorney general found no evidence that the meters would repay their own cost. If you think a company is going to give you a device that helps you pay them less money, you've got to be pathetically, comically, naive.


Was it the Connecticut Light and Power study, because that study is so flawed it borders on unscientific. If you believe the AG is looking out for you,you've got to be pathetically, comically, naive.
 
2013-01-27 12:08:01 PM  
DNRTFA
DNRTFThread

They threatened the installers, didn't they? And then some idiot on Breitbart turned it into a Really Big Deal. And then a bigger idiot submitted it to Fark. And then the King of the Idiots greenlit it.

That about cover it?

/ what kind of imbecile wouldn't want a smart meter?
// he said in a country full of imbeciles who think that CFL bulbs are the end of all things....
 
2013-01-27 12:08:03 PM  

BunkyBrewman: This isn't upgrading our power grid in the slightest. All it is doing is maximizing the amount of money the electric company can siphon off from you.

Our aging power grid (here in the Northeast) is still not completely repaired from a storm from late October. Talk about a joke. We're third farking world country when it comes to distributing energy. The German power grid has outages at an average rate of 21 minutes per year. (you read that right... an average of 21 minutes)


Yeah, mostly about that but it does keep meter readers from having to deal with assholes and dogs.

The home my ex-wife got in the divorce has 4 big dogs in a fenced yard and the only way they could read our meter was to come on the property. They would have to call in advance and someone would have to leave work to be on site when they arrived. It was a hassle for everybody involved and this will surely help resolve that problem. Not sure how much more money that'll make for Florida Power and Light though, but it's always about money to those folks.
 
2013-01-27 12:08:27 PM  
Seen from the 99%er viewpoint, this sucks and will continue to suck. A utility is a natural monopoly because they built (or bought) the infrastructure to deliver the service to your house, and local utility commissions "protect the public interest" by setting rates that are "fair and balanced". This concept doesn't obtain in situations where the CEO of the power company is married to the sister of the utility commission, but hey who's complaining. It's just like compulsory auto insurance: legalized extortion. But really, this is no new news in America. Even the youngest among us can realize that populations exist increasingly for the benefit of the rich. And those of us over 40? Sh*t dog, good luck having any liberty at all in 50 years.

udhq is right - the only way to be free from the utility company's policies is to disconnect from the grid.
 
2013-01-27 12:09:02 PM  
There's no constitutional right to electricity. Instead of arresting them though, the power company should just uninstall all meters and cut off electricity to their homes. If they don't want the electric company's services they can install solar panels or have a hamster generating electricity on a wheel or something. It would be interesting to see how long she can go without watching Fox News in her house.
 
2013-01-27 12:13:00 PM  

roadmarks: Not sure I understand the outrage here. Would you require people to buy install and service their own meters for the power company? I think that could cause quite a few problems. Or do you think that someone should be able to keep the company from getting to the meter they own? What would the recourse be for the power company if someone tampered with it, or refused to let them read it?


I own my own Cable modem and control the root password. Damned if I'm going to let one of Comcast's mouth-breathers into my home to mess with it. If they want to audit my Internet usage, they have my permission to do it from their end. I'd be more comfortable with smart meters if they were owned by the homeowner and could be accessed remotely only with permission from the homeowner. Certainly not ones that are owned by the electric company and installed by thugs with police escort.

I remember when telephones were owned by the phone company. We're much better off today.
 
2013-01-27 12:13:26 PM  

Mechanicum: You only install those on problem properties with multiple cutoffs. It's not economical to put an expensive cutoff relay on everyone. Again, it's a wireless meter reader. That is literally it, and the unwashed masses continue to prove themselves so dumb that helmets ought to be mandated.


Beretta3000: Alright...I work at a public power utility. I was on the team to evaluate a business case for deploying smart meters. We have a test center with different types of smart meters to learn more about their behaviors. We've also disassembled a few. ... The ability to do a remote power on/off is available as an option on many meters. It's essentially a relay switch within the meter. The one I'm most familiar with can only be remotely powered on/off a few times before the meter has to be replaced. This option has to be specifically ordered with the meter and it is about $100 extra per meter. We considered them for customers who have a history of nonpayment.



Thanks, now it makes more sense.

Out of curiosity, about the expensive meters with the remote disconnect option -- are they engineered to survive all of the spikes and noise you'd reasonably expect to see on the incoming power from nearby lightning strikes or whatever? What about the electronics on all of the meters? And since this technology's been around a few years now, has the hardware demonstrated that it's likely to pretty much forever like the old meters?
 
2013-01-27 12:13:47 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: udhq: To my knowledge, no one is forced to use public utilities, and the property easements that come along with them.

Fortunately, where I live, the weather extremes aren't deadly. But for many people, without electricity, they would die. And many places forbid stuff like diesel generators and solar panels (think townhomes/apartment complexes) So their choice is between the power company or death. Sounds like a legit choice.


You know, I'm not totally unsympathetic to this POV, I just think that people choose to sacrifice a small-but-reasonable amount of sovereignty when they choose to live in major population/economic centers.

I mean, how could we operate these collectivized, socialist public utilities if their administrators are not allowed access to the point of delivery? Because of the way a lot of them are set up, one bad link in the chain can knock out service to entire towns. I think the minor inconvenience that the women in TFA are protesting is worth the benefit of public power, water, sewer, etc., and if a person disagrees, they're free to move somewhere off the grid.
 
2013-01-27 12:14:28 PM  
Again, whether the meters are to be used for a rate increase or not isn't the issue. The fact remains, they're owned by the power company and they have special exemptions to trespassing law to be able to service and replace them.

Power costs have increased over the past 100 years. Big surprise. They get more expensive as we lean more on foreign sources to supply it. And they get more expensive as we realize and try to correct adverse environmental impact caused by the generation thereof. Not to mention the dismantling of public dollars contributing to lengthening of the normal service life of equipment to transmit it from one place to another, leading to higher maintenance costs to upkeep.

So yeah, I guess the meter is the reason why the power bill keeps going up... ROFL.
 
2013-01-27 12:15:11 PM  

Stephen_Falken: udhq is right - the only way to be free from the utility company's policies is to disconnect from the grid.


Oftentimes, disconnecting from the grid is not an option because you can only afford to live in an apartment or town home. You either do business with the power company or die.
 
2013-01-27 12:15:14 PM  

ZodiacMan: There's no constitutional right to electricity. Instead of arresting them though, the power company should just uninstall all meters and cut off electricity to their homes. If they don't want the electric company's services they can install solar panels or have a hamster generating electricity on a wheel or something. It would be interesting to see how long she can go without watching Fox News in her house.


I like the cut of your jib.
 
2013-01-27 12:15:39 PM  

Skirl Hutsenreiter: Have you sealed where the wall cavities meet the attic? I know if air can move between the attic, walls, and crawlspace then rising air in the walls will draw cold air up from under the house in the winter, making even insulated walls cold. In the summer it lets hot attic air surround you bedrooms, rather than just sit on top.


At the top, yes.  The walls are all clapboard, wireframe, and plaster, so getting inside them is not trivial.  From what I've seen there isn't that much of a gap in the walls to begin with.
 
2013-01-27 12:17:15 PM  
This is something that the derpers have been agitating about for over a year now. It appeals to the usual chemtrailers and troofers, but the right-wing media has been pushing it hard to rile other folks up.
 
2013-01-27 12:17:40 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: Was it the Connecticut Light and Power study, because that study is so flawed it borders on unscientific.


Bald assertion. Cite your source.

machodonkeywrestler: If you believe the AG is looking out for you,you've got to be pathetically, comically, naive.


Yeah, the AG never takes up causes in the public interest! I don't know how it works in your state, but ours is generally pretty helpful, so your attempt to reverse my "zing" just made you look a bit retarded.
 
2013-01-27 12:18:48 PM  

HoneyDog: Honey, outlined in those TOS is the fact that the meter and service equipment is the power company's property. They also are guaranteed access to it. Look at your local regs again.

Where did I say the meter wasn't their property? Where did I say they couldn't come read it. The fact is though, I did not sign a contract. In fact, in the case of the electricity, when I called the electric company to "start service" I was notified by the company that the people we bought the house from notified the electric company that they sold the house to us.


First, when you called the power company, you were agreeing to an implicit contract.

Now, look at the back of your bill or statement. Read the tiny little words. When you made your first payment, you agreed to the TOS and sealed the contract.
 
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