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(AlterNet)   Yes, It Has   (alternet.org) divider line 160
    More: Obvious, dictators, mass unemployment, C. Wright Mills  
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20668 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jan 2013 at 10:13 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-27 12:23:59 PM

Deathfrogg: a deranged authoritarian prick with no sense of what his actual job responsibility


Probably. Sounds like you got unlucky that night.
 
2013-01-27 12:24:59 PM

lymond01: The oversomnambulance of the reticular digression was decisively constabulatory to the extreme of self-revelation.

Obviously.


WORD

/;^)
 
2013-01-27 12:26:29 PM
If America WERE truly authoritarian, the ability to discuss said authoritarian state would be non-existent. So, no, it hasn't.
 
2013-01-27 12:28:34 PM
I don't care how authoritarian things get, as long as they don't touch my reality TV.
 
2013-01-27 12:29:15 PM

KangTheMad: Wayne 985: KangTheMad: Well, I figure that since Fox and friends throw around communist and socialist, around so much, I should explain what those terms mean.

I'm glad you did - just irritated that it even needs to be done.

Yeah...some people think Hitler was left-wing socialist.

//you could argue that since Hitler's party was named the National Socialist Workers Party, he was socialist in name, and you'd be correct. But his policies were very much fascist. He called his party socialist because communism at the time was popular in Germany.


"Huh. As a German in 1930's Germany, I really like some of the ideas of the communist party, but they're a little too extreme on some stuff. I know, I'll go with this Hitler guy and his socialists. It's like communism light, without all of the extremism. That's the ticket."
 
2013-01-27 12:29:53 PM

wombatsrus: I don't care how authoritarian things get, as long as they don't touch my reality TV.


If Obama cancels Honey Boo Boo, i'll be ok with that.
 
2013-01-27 12:31:37 PM

KangTheMad: Wayne 985: KangTheMad: Well, I figure that since Fox and friends throw around communist and socialist, around so much, I should explain what those terms mean.

I'm glad you did - just irritated that it even needs to be done.

Yeah...some people think Hitler was left-wing socialist.

//you could argue that since Hitler's party was named the National Socialist Workers Party, he was socialist in name, and you'd be correct. But his policies were very much fascist. He called his party socialist because communism at the time was popular in Germany.



oooh a vast oversimplification and dismissal. He was left wing in more than name. He was nationalist on top of it. and to top it all off he decided that genocide was a good move. Saying Hitler is right wing in some manner would be like saying that Grape Jelly is Right Wing and Grape Jam is left wing. *cough* Hitler was in no way right wing. Imperialism crosses all political lines.
 
2013-01-27 12:33:17 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: America's been dead for about 11 years and 3 months now. Oh, it was circling the drain for a few decades, what with our involvement in Vietnam and the War on Drugs, but there was always a glimmer of light that radiated out from America. The Land of the Free. Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. We still had something to say about being great, and other countries believed it, just as much as we did too.

But 11 years and 3 months ago our beacon of hope was snuffed out. We turned from the Home of the Brave into the home of the cowering pusillanimous slaves to Fear. Once upon a time, we had nothing to fear but fear itself. These days we do everything we can to satisfy those who scare us. We pretend to be strong, but the fear defines and limits us. We take action against our fear, but to the detriment of our freedom. We aren't Americans anymore. We're American'ts.

So when you hear the government calling for more restrictions on our freedoms, especially ones specifically enshrined in our Constitution, tell that government to stick it in its ear. If we as a collective nation can't be a beacon of freedom for the world, at least let us as individuals be a small torch of freedom.


This.
 
2013-01-27 12:35:52 PM
Neo-feudal Robber Baronetcy.
 
2013-01-27 12:35:53 PM

edmo: The fact that America is becoming increasingly conservative did not seem to figure into the calculus.


I dunno. It seems that the last election proved pretty clearly that America is starting to finally wake up from the hazy crack dream of right wing zealotry.
 
2013-01-27 12:39:23 PM
For the people arguing about economics:  save it for another thread.   The government can put cameras on your property.  They can put gps trackers on your car. They can enter your home without a warrant.  They can take your stuff,  This is just the beginning of what we need to fight back against.  These are the things our elected officials need to address,
 
2013-01-27 12:40:11 PM

TV's Vinnie: edmo: The fact that America is becoming increasingly conservative did not seem to figure into the calculus.

I dunno. It seems that the last election proved pretty clearly that America is starting to finally wake up from the hazy crack dream of right wing zealotry.


I'll happily buy into that if the Right loses more seats in Congress in 2014.
 
2013-01-27 12:42:39 PM

RobertBruce: For the people arguing about economics:  save it for another thread.   The government can put cameras on your property.  They can put gps trackers on your car. They can enter your home without a warrant.  They can take your stuff,  This is just the beginning of what we need to fight back against.  These are the things our elected officials need to address,


They can, but then I'd sue them and win.
 
2013-01-27 12:44:59 PM

TV's Vinnie: edmo: The fact that America is becoming increasingly conservative did not seem to figure into the calculus.

I dunno. It seems that the last election proved pretty clearly that America is starting to finally wake up from the hazy crack dream of right wing zealotry.


I dunno - my parents still vote.
 
2013-01-27 12:48:50 PM
Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right Left Right .... go the boots
 
2013-01-27 12:55:11 PM

Wayne 985: Rich Cream: AverageAmericanGuy:
But 11 years and 3 months ago our beacon of hope was snuffed out. We turned from the Home of the Brave into the home of the cowering pusillanimous slaves to Fear. Once upon a time, we had nothing to fear but fear itself.

[img707.imageshack.us image 241x538]

Your 20th century leader signed an order permitting internment camps because people were scared of the Japanese. I'd like to see a current politician do that to Arabs; they wouldn't be able to, because we've progressed significantly.



The graphic speaks in generalities. No one in the 21st has actually said flee anything either. It's more about the presentation from our glorious leaders.

/when the Arabs attack Pearl Harbor (ie start a real war) our current leaders would easily sign an order
 
2013-01-27 12:56:28 PM
No, it's not. If America was truly authoritarian or totalitarian, it'd be more efficient and wouldn't have lasted as long with an essentially unchanged main governmental structure. Most of our problems arise out of the fact democracy (and representative democracy in particular) is designed to be a relatively slow, imperfect, but durable system. If you ask me, the problem is the refusal of the legislator to constructively work with itself or the executive. Arguably, this has always, and was intended to be the problem, but it is the most fragile link in the chain because of that. If America ever fails completely, you can be sure as hell that congress is going to be holding the dynamite when it blows up in our face. That's why I support term limits (or at least consecutive term limits) for representatives and senators, it stops them from being able to create impermeable walls of party politics and oligarchy as easily. It'll never happen because congress would need to pass it. We occasionally have things become more extreme, more totalitarian, and there is idiocy involved with that, but the fact of the matter is that very few americans fear what their government will do if they merely speak their mind, and even those who do often refuse to censor themselves.
 
2013-01-27 01:04:53 PM
I've always been under the suspicion that we've been running a soft fascism over here, though it's harder to pin down when we made that transition. '94 and the GOP eventually going berserk over Clinton's penis and the then Dems very corporate friendly attitudes? '80 and Reagan's revolution bringing all the religious crazies out of the woodwork? '63 and Kennedy, allowing for the ramping up of violence in Viet Nam? Earlier than that even?
 
2013-01-27 01:32:50 PM

KangTheMad: wombatsrus: I don't care how authoritarian things get, as long as they don't touch my reality TV.

If Obama cancels Honey Boo Boo, i'll be ok with that.


i'd become democrat.
 
2013-01-27 01:40:25 PM
With the end of the Cold War the military-industrial complex has been trying to justify its existence.

Without an external locus for its paranoia and aggressiveness it has to find an internal enemy.

Even if it has to manufacture one.
 
2013-01-27 01:45:48 PM

impaler: It's becoming more of a corporate oligarchy, if anything.


You mean fascist.
 
2013-01-27 01:47:24 PM

born_yesterday: I think people place too much emphasis on Orwell's predictions of the evolution of totalitarianism with regards to this country, and not enough on Huxley's. I think Huxley was far more accurate regarding the soothing effects of capitalist consumerism and the resulting indifference towards societal decline. How nice that both of these authors' worst observations about society have merged into a giant ball of suck.


Yet more people immigrate to America every year than any other country.

If we are so bad, the rest of the world must be a shiat hole.
 
2013-01-27 01:49:19 PM
" The paranoid style is not confined to our own country and time; it is an international phenomenon. Studying the millennial sects of Europe from the eleventh to the sixteenth century, Norman Cohn believed he found a persistent psychic complex that corresponds broadly with what I have been considering-a style made up of certain preoccupations and fantasies: "the megalomaniac view of oneself as the Elect, wholly good, abominably persecuted, yet assured of ultimate triumph; the attribution of gigantic and demonic powers to the adversary; the refusal to accept the ineluctable limitations and imperfections of human existence, such as transience, dissention, conflict, fallibility whether intellectual or moral; the obsession with inerrable prophecies...systematized misinterpretations, always gross and often grotesque."
This glimpse across a long span of time emboldens me to make the conjecture-it is no more than that-that a mentality disposed to see the world in this way may be a persistent psychic phenomenon, more or less constantly affecting a modest minority of the population. But certain religious traditions, certain social structures and national inheritances, certain historical catastrophes or frustrations may be conducive to the release of such psychic energies, and to situations in which they can more readily be built into mass movements or political parties. In American experience ethnic and religious conflict have plainly been a major focus for militant and suspicious minds of this sort, but class conflicts also can mobilize such energies. Perhaps the central situation conducive to the diffusion of the paranoid tendency is a confrontation of opposed interests which are (or are felt to be) totally irreconcilable, and thus by nature not susceptible to the normal political processes of bargain and compromise. The situation becomes worse when the representatives of a particular social interest-perhaps because of the very unrealistic and unrealizable nature of its demands-are shut out of the political process. Having no access to political bargaining or the making of decisions, they find their original conception that the world of power is sinister and malicious fully confirmed. They see only the consequences of power-and this through distorting lenses-and have no chance to observe its actual machinery. A distinguished historian has said that one of the most valuable things about history is that it teaches us how things do not happen. It is precisely this kind of awareness that the paranoid fails to develop. He has a special resistance of his own, of course, to developing such awareness, but circumstances often deprive him of exposure to events that might enlighten him-and in any case he resists enlightenment.
We are all sufferers from history, but the paranoid is a double sufferer, since he is afflicted not only by the real world, with the rest of us, but by his fantasies as well."
 
2013-01-27 01:51:23 PM

Wayne 985: If you think America is "authoritarian", you're a naive pansy with no concept of the outside world.


Free speech zones. Attacking protesters just for being protesters. Police asking "papers, please" in airport checkpoints to all the citizens who need to travel. Extending those checkpoints to cover rail and bus. State intelligence services monitoring citizens and keeping databases on their lives.

Naiveness.
 
2013-01-27 01:53:24 PM

Arctic Phoenix: If America WERE truly authoritarian, the ability to discuss said authoritarian state would be non-existent. So, no, it hasn't.


You mean, like this?
 
2013-01-27 02:01:08 PM

TDBoedy: oooh a vast oversimplification and dismissal. He was left wing in more than name. He was nationalist on top of it. and to top it all off he decided that genocide was a good move. Saying Hitler is right wing in some manner would be like saying that Grape Jelly is Right Wing and Grape Jam is left wing. *cough* Hitler was in no way right wing. Imperialism crosses all political lines.


The left/right wing nonsense doens't describe ideology. It only describes seating arrangements in a legislative assembly. People who opposed each other were seated in their corner, and that's it.

The term left/right wing policies is also meaningless, because the original left and right wings were separated by issues such as support for the monarchy.

Meanwhile, there are elected groups who, although they describe themselves as extreme left/right wing, they actually defend the exact same things. For example, in my country we have both the far left (communits) and the far right (neo-nazis) demanding public spending cuts and lower taxes, and the communists even go to the press demanding that some public-private partnerships continue although that goes against their fiscal responsibility stance and it increases public spending significantly.

So, the best thing to go around this is to simply label those who talk about left/right wing as morons who blindly follow/hate a set of labels. Because that's what they are, really.
 
2013-01-27 02:03:19 PM
My first thought was that subby is a histrionic tool who has never lived in an ACTUAL dictatorship.

Then I read an email I just received from a representative of Google, wherein they have informed me that they are confiscating my intellectual property, and not allowing me to publish a book of my own writings, despite having never made any agreements with them (I posted a serial many, many years ago on a site that they later acquired.)

Yeah, we have a problem with authoritarianism in this country, and the only solution is a centralized democratic government large enough and powerful enough to represent individuals against the non-state actors imposing their will on a helpless public.
 
2013-01-27 02:05:19 PM

maggoo: Meanwhile, there are elected groups who, although they describe themselves as extreme left/right wing, they actually defend the exact same things. For example, in my country we have both the far left (communits) and the far right (neo-nazis) demanding public spending cuts and lower taxes, and the communists even go to the press demanding that some public-private partnerships continue although that goes against their fiscal responsibility stance and it increases public spending significantly.


So, are you Greek or Hungarian?
 
2013-01-27 02:06:27 PM
People seem to have forgotten that a lot of the stupid laws we have to put up with are the result of our fellow citizens complaining to their representatives. Most of the other stupid laws are the result of lobbying by various industries.

The government doesn't tend to spend a lot of time trying to come up with laws in a vacuum.

Here's an idea...Get your neighbors to stop suing each other over the stupidest little thing. Lawsuits tend to draw attention to "issues" that need to be legislated.

Also, stop people from injuring one another in car accidents. The majority of our stupid traffic laws come from the evaluation of accidents to determine what would prevent future accidents.
 
2013-01-27 02:09:19 PM

ourbigdumbmouth: If you don't like it you can leave.


I don't like it and those who do can leave.
 
2013-01-27 02:11:06 PM
Subby obviously hasn't set foot in the Middle East. If you think American is authoritarian, you don't know jack about the subject.
 
2013-01-27 02:16:08 PM
America should just stop being united, and let the country divide up into littler countries.

Redneckistan, Texas, North Mexico, Weedland Republic, Chicongo, Mormonia, and New England No Guns Allowed.
 
2013-01-27 02:25:52 PM
tl;dr.

However, the TREND exists.
 
2013-01-27 02:33:44 PM

netgamer7k: America should just stop being united, and let the country divide up into littler countries.

Redneckistan, Texas, North Mexico, Weedland Republic, Chicongo, Mormonia, and New England No Guns Allowed.


"Hail to thee Mormonia, a land I didn't make up."
 
2013-01-27 02:39:17 PM

Agarista: This is actually a very well-written article. Unfortunately, it places too many BS buzzwords in the first few paragraphs, restricting the readership to the dedicated few.


In English 101, they teach you that the thesis statement goes at the end of the first paragraph, and you don't ramble in a formal paper. If you're ignoring English 101, it's not a good paper, much like if you think Velveeta is an appropriate cheese, you do not have a good sammich.
 
2013-01-27 02:47:04 PM

maggoo: TDBoedy: oooh a vast oversimplification and dismissal. He was left wing in more than name. He was nationalist on top of it. and to top it all off he decided that genocide was a good move. Saying Hitler is right wing in some manner would be like saying that Grape Jelly is Right Wing and Grape Jam is left wing. *cough* Hitler was in no way right wing. Imperialism crosses all political lines.

The left/right wing nonsense doens't describe ideology. It only describes seating arrangements in a legislative assembly. People who opposed each other were seated in their corner, and that's it.

The term left/right wing policies is also meaningless, because the original left and right wings were separated by issues such as support for the monarchy.

Meanwhile, there are elected groups who, although they describe themselves as extreme left/right wing, they actually defend the exact same things. For example, in my country we have both the far left (communits) and the far right (neo-nazis) demanding public spending cuts and lower taxes, and the communists even go to the press demanding that some public-private partnerships continue although that goes against their fiscal responsibility stance and it increases public spending significantly.

So, the best thing to go around this is to simply label those who talk about left/right wing as morons who blindly follow/hate a set of labels. Because that's what they are, really.


fair enough.
 
2013-01-27 02:48:16 PM

PsiChick: Agarista: This is actually a very well-written article. Unfortunately, it places too many BS buzzwords in the first few paragraphs, restricting the readership to the dedicated few.

In English 101, they teach you that the thesis statement goes at the end of the first paragraph, and you don't ramble in a formal paper. If you're ignoring English 101, it's not a good paper, much like if you think Velveeta is an appropriate cheese, you do not have a good sammich.


Hey now, velveeta makes damn fine grilled cheese.
 
2013-01-27 02:55:33 PM

udhq: PsiChick: Agarista: This is actually a very well-written article. Unfortunately, it places too many BS buzzwords in the first few paragraphs, restricting the readership to the dedicated few.

In English 101, they teach you that the thesis statement goes at the end of the first paragraph, and you don't ramble in a formal paper. If you're ignoring English 101, it's not a good paper, much like if you think Velveeta is an appropriate cheese, you do not have a good sammich.

Hey now, velveeta makes damn fine grilled cheese.


I dunno, it tastes pretty bland to me, but maybe I just cook it wrong.
 
2013-01-27 03:16:45 PM
www.exponentialimprovement.com

If Mittens won you may have has a case the the US is moving in a authoritarianism direction, but since we're stuck with Obama looks like that's not the case.

Besides if you think the current state of affairs in America resembles those in Saudi Arabia, North Korea or Russia then you are just beyond hope.
 
2013-01-27 03:32:13 PM
Yeah, we're so horribly oppressed here in America. It's just awful. I sure lament the loss of the good old days when the cops brutally enforced racism and we could legally discriminate against anyone who wasn't a while male Protestant. All this equality stuff is so terrible. I just can't stop crying about how oppressive life is in America.
 
2013-01-27 03:46:09 PM

dennysgod: [www.exponentialimprovement.com image 665x574]

If Mittens won you may have has a case the the US is moving in a authoritarianism direction, but since we're stuck with Obama looks like that's not the case.

Besides if you think the current state of affairs in America resembles those in Saudi Arabia, North Korea or Russia then you are just beyond hope.


wheres Adolph Hitler? top left?
 
2013-01-27 04:35:15 PM
i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

Swear to GOD, some days it feels like I'm the only one who remembers the Bush years.

(Do people attending Obama speeches have to sign Loyalty Oaths, or was that just a Republican thing?)
 
2013-01-27 04:37:03 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: wheres Adolph Hitler? top left?


In order to put Barack Obama right of center, he had to be scrolled off the side completely.

/you're looking at one FARKer's unimportant opinion in graphical form
//take from it whatever you want, it seriously doesn't matter at all
///not even enough to respond to directly
 
2013-01-27 04:56:25 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: dennysgod: [www.exponentialimprovement.com image 665x574]

If Mittens won you may have has a case the the US is moving in a authoritarianism direction, but since we're stuck with Obama looks like that's not the case.

Besides if you think the current state of affairs in America resembles those in Saudi Arabia, North Korea or Russia then you are just beyond hope.

wheres Adolph Hitler? top left?


Actually, he'd be the center top because that's where a real socialist would be, the middle, because socialism takes the good in capitalism and the good the Marxism/Communism and mixes them up so socialist tend to hang around the middle vertical axis. Contrary to popular belief communism and socialism are two different things but, just like the little under the nose mustaches, socialism got a bad rap because it was associated with Hitler.

People on top left would be Mao, Stalin and Lenin and other communist dictators.
 
2013-01-27 05:02:45 PM
good. i hope he DIES
 
2013-01-27 05:29:37 PM
 
2013-01-27 06:05:22 PM
The 1st Amendment keeps us free. And before any of you gun nuts opens their mouth about the 2nd Amendment protecting that right, I'd just like to point out that MLK would disagree with you.
 
2013-01-27 06:07:33 PM

maggoo: Wayne 985: If you think America is "authoritarian", you're a naive pansy with no concept of the outside world.

Free speech zones. Attacking protesters just for being protesters. Police asking "papers, please" in airport checkpoints to all the citizens who need to travel. Extending those checkpoints to cover rail and bus. State intelligence services monitoring citizens and keeping databases on their lives.

Naiveness.


Yes, showing a passport and photo ID when you're getting on a plane is like being searched by the Gestapo. One minute you're showing a driver's license and the next you're being shipped to Obama's gas chambers.
 
2013-01-27 06:20:47 PM
No problem, subby. Just move to New Hampshire.
 
2013-01-27 07:06:01 PM
How many people in this thread are under the sword of arrest for what they've said here?

Anyone?
 
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