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(NJ.com)   "However, a district-by-district system would accomplish much the same thing [as a popular vote], so I wonder why more of these characters aren't pushing it"   (blog.nj.com) divider line 159
    More: Dumbass, NBC, elections, 38th state, swing states, microstate  
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2829 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Jan 2013 at 8:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



159 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-01-26 04:13:25 PM  
How long before these guys want to change the system to a "one lie, one vote" construct?
 
2013-01-26 04:46:09 PM  
No mention of gerrymandering or the fact that it would not be equivalent to popular vote if it isn't being adopted by all states. Sounds fair and balanced.
 
2013-01-26 05:53:19 PM  
Except for the fact that it would be the complete opposite, sure.
 
2013-01-26 05:55:58 PM  
These liberals at NBC may not like that. But that's the reality - at least to those of us who understand politics.

Nothing like closing the article with some condescending douchebaggery.
 
2013-01-26 05:57:56 PM  
And as I have also noted, the Maine-Nebraska system is already in place in seven other states as well. In every state that has just one congressman, there is no difference between winner-take-all and the district system.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen said.
 
2013-01-26 05:59:42 PM  

DamnYankees: And as I have also noted, the Maine-Nebraska system is already in place in seven other states as well. In every state that has just one congressman, there is no difference between winner-take-all and the district system.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen said.


Well, you're not one of those people (like him) that understands politics.
 
2013-01-26 06:50:13 PM  
So if the intent is to have electoral results better match the popular vote, why not just use the popular vote?

Oh, yeah.  Because your guy got his ass kicked in the past two elections by that method too.

It's a little hard to claim this isn't about rigging the election when you propose to replace the current system with one that would have given your guy a majority of the electoral vote when his opponent had a majority of the popular vote.
 
2013-01-26 06:50:50 PM  
Let's see how that worked out for the House of Representatives, which is a district-by-district system:

Oh, right, Democrats got 1,362,351 more votes than Republicans in House races, but got 33 fewer seats.

I don't even know why this has to be said. Who believes that district-by-district=popular vote?
 
2013-01-26 07:06:34 PM  
These are the same people assuring us Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Republican, so, why should we question their assertions?
 
2013-01-26 07:11:29 PM  

nmrsnr: I don't even know why this has to be said. Who believes that district-by-district=popular vote?


...ignorant morons?
 
2013-01-26 07:17:18 PM  

DamnYankees: And as I have also noted, the Maine-Nebraska system is already in place in seven other states as well. In every state that has just one congressman, there is no difference between winner-take-all and the district system.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen said.


It is shockingly stupid.
 
2013-01-26 07:19:30 PM  
there's nothing particularly natural or preferable about the winner-take-all system system for awarding electors.

Except for the fact that it tends to track the national popular vote pretty well while still preventing insanity like "Romney wins if the votes are the same but the rules are changed." But please continue.

/wouldn't have too big of a problem with making the presidential race a popular vote contest through the NPVC
//but that's not what this is
///you gerrymandering farks
 
2013-01-26 07:20:57 PM  

abb3w: ...ignorant morons?


::sigh:: I always forget how many of them there are.

The question I always have is, is the writer an well-intentioned idiot, or a deliberately misleading piece of garbage who believes that lying to people in order to promote your own agenda is a desirable form of political discourse?
 
2013-01-26 07:25:26 PM  

nmrsnr: abb3w: ...ignorant morons?

::sigh:: I always forget how many of them there are.

The question I always have is, is the writer an well-intentioned idiot, or a deliberately misleading piece of garbage who believes that lying to people in order to promote your own agenda is a desirable form of political discourse?


Yes.
 
2013-01-26 08:22:42 PM  
When my 8 year old daughter makes up a game to play with her 5 year old brother.  She always wins.  She just constantly adjusts the rules until she does.
 
2013-01-26 08:25:45 PM  
Make it proportional for ALL states, including the little 4-6 electoral vote backwards ones. Yeah, California adds 50+ to the blue team, but the south does the same thing for the red team. Let Republicans make gains in New York if Democrats can make gains in Texas.

But farking with key states is the Republicans admitting they've got nothing else to run on but election fraud.
 
2013-01-26 08:36:11 PM  
At the risk of getting another one of my posts deleted for "trolling the modmins" (???, I know right? I guess I hurt the modmitter's feelings that day)

This is a painfully stupid article and it's green only serves as troll bait.

Something tells me from my TF months there are much better green candidates than this. (but probably not trollish enough for fark)
 
2013-01-26 08:37:03 PM  
He's totally right, in that cute way Republicans can be totally right while being totally wrong.

/ If being Republican isn't not being right, I don't wanna be right.

// This ain't wasn't can't be not a lie.

/// Double-negative slashies.
 
2013-01-26 08:37:08 PM  
Look at me. I write a blog. I call everyone naive. That makes me smart.
 
2013-01-26 08:38:25 PM  
How about a system that gives every single state, regardless of size, the same amount of electoral votes. Total popular vote in a state awards the electors and then just do straight math from there.

Hell, eliminate all the districts. Keep the number of representatives based on state population, but make them have to do all of their races state wide like senators.
 
2013-01-26 08:40:42 PM  
This article reads like a 9th grade Civics paper
 
2013-01-26 08:41:53 PM  

Codenamechaz: How about a system that gives every single state, regardless of size, the same amount of electoral votes. Total popular vote in a state awards the electors and then just do straight math from there.

Hell, eliminate all the districts. Keep the number of representatives based on state population, but make them have to do all of their races state wide like senators.


How about we just decide the number of electors for each state based on the square root of the votes in California divided by the inverse cosine of the current temperature in Florida, as measured up the current Governor's ass?

/ It's more democratic, goddamnit.
 
2013-01-26 08:44:29 PM  
If it would accomplish much the same thing as popular vote, then just go with popular vote. Unless you know your argument is grade-A bollocks.
 
2013-01-26 08:45:33 PM  

Codenamechaz: How about a system that gives every single state, regardless of size, the same amount of electoral votes. Total popular vote in a state awards the electors and then just do straight math from there.

Hell, eliminate all the districts. Keep the number of representatives based on state population, but make them have to do all of their races state wide like senators.


So Wyoming should equal California?  WTF?
 
2013-01-26 08:46:23 PM  
FTA: "Meanwhile efforts to install the Maine-Nebraska are not just politically possible. They're politically inevitable - once Republicans finally figure out the advantage for them."

Wait, so Republican control of the country is destiny, but Republicans are just too dumb to see it?
 
2013-01-26 08:46:56 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: These are the same people assuring us Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Republican, so, why should we question their assertions?


When he spoke on behalf of the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party and the 1964 Democratic National Convention, he was totally working as a sleeper agent for the Goldwater campaign.

/Study it out!

Link
 
2013-01-26 08:49:51 PM  
I'm kind of scared of where the Republican party is heading. They have two big policies at the moment. The first is to disenfranchise voters and gerrymander the hell out of everything to essentially make the people's votes worthless if they're able to vote at all. The second is to make military-grade firearms freely available with zero accountability, under the repeated mantra that citizens are obligated to effect change in their government through threat of violence.

The WASP demographic is quickly losing power, and they know for a fact that they'll never get that power back through a democratic process. The only solution is to destroy democracy and call for an armed revolution to topple the current government so they can set themselves back into power.
 
2013-01-26 08:54:32 PM  
Disingenuous asshole.
 
2013-01-26 08:55:09 PM  

Fast Moon: I'm kind of scared of where the Republican party is heading. They have two big policies at the moment. The first is to disenfranchise voters and gerrymander the hell out of everything to essentially make the people's votes worthless if they're able to vote at all. The second is to make military-grade firearms freely available with zero accountability, under the repeated mantra that citizens are obligated to effect change in their government through threat of violence.

The WASP demographic is quickly losing power, and they know for a fact that they'll never get that power back through a democratic process. The only solution is to destroy democracy and call for an armed revolution to topple the current government so they can set themselves back into power.


As a member of said demographic I have no intention of overthrowing anyone ever violently or otherwise. Your attempts at painting all members of my group with your broad stereotyping brush are WASPism plain and simple, good sir, and I demand satisfaction!

Martin Luther King Jr would be on the side of WASPs, as fox news keeps telling me lately.


/I feel dirty for saying that even in jest...
//goes to take a shower
 
2013-01-26 09:00:09 PM  

Fast Moon: I'm kind of scared of where the Republican party is heading. They have two big policies at the moment. The first is to disenfranchise voters and gerrymander the hell out of everything to essentially make the people's votes worthless if they're able to vote at all. The second is to make military-grade firearms freely available with zero accountability, under the repeated mantra that citizens are obligated to effect change in their government through threat of violence.


What? No love for making women second class citizens.

So Three, THREE big policies...
 
2013-01-26 09:02:09 PM  

Evil Twin Skippy: Fast Moon: I'm kind of scared of where the Republican party is heading. They have two big policies at the moment. The first is to disenfranchise voters and gerrymander the hell out of everything to essentially make the people's votes worthless if they're able to vote at all. The second is to make military-grade firearms freely available with zero accountability, under the repeated mantra that citizens are obligated to effect change in their government through threat of violence.

What? No love for making women second class citizens.

So Three, THREE big policies...


And making Evangelical Christianity the state religion.

So Four, FOUR big policies...
 
2013-01-26 09:03:57 PM  
The GOP and their fan club are still the greatest threat facing America. Also, it's worth mentioning that this guy's blog sucks.
 
2013-01-26 09:11:36 PM  
like the popular vote would be electoral votes distributed evenly based on a statewide popular vote. you can't gerrymander state lines.
 
2013-01-26 09:12:55 PM  
I'm going to continue to call this a naked power grab meant to bypass the will of the people until Republicans start proposing these changes in red states.
 
2013-01-26 09:15:25 PM  
I can't figure out for the life of me why the Star-Ledger is having a hard time selling newspapers with such insightful editorials like this one.
 
2013-01-26 09:16:23 PM  
TFA: Two: Nonsense. You can't "speed up efforts" to make something happen that is politically impossible. And an amendment creating a national popular vote is politically impossible.

This is either willful ignorance or real ignorance. States can use the exact same process to create a national popular vote - states combining for more than 50% of the EVs can each locally decide to give their EVs to the national popular vote winner. There is no need for a constitutional amendment, so this entire section of his argument falls down.

Additionally, he's arguing that a national popular vote would be against the interest of the small states so they wouldn't agree, but to me it seems like the Maine-Nebraska plan would be against the interests of states like Ohio and they're still talking about it. It's not like Ohio was not getting enough attention last election, and it wouldn't get near the same amount of attention if it was splitting its EVs.

/In general this reads like a deliberate attempt at justifying the bullshiat the GOP is trying to pull.
//Because that's exactly what it is.
///Probably.
 
2013-01-26 09:17:55 PM  
Range voting seems like a better idea every passing day...

=Smidge=
 
2013-01-26 09:19:39 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Evil Twin Skippy: Fast Moon: I'm kind of scared of where the Republican party is heading. They have two big policies at the moment. The first is to disenfranchise voters and gerrymander the hell out of everything to essentially make the people's votes worthless if they're able to vote at all. The second is to make military-grade firearms freely available with zero accountability, under the repeated mantra that citizens are obligated to effect change in their government through threat of violence.

What? No love for making women second class citizens.

So Three, THREE big policies...

And making Evangelical Christianity the state religion.

So Four, FOUR big policies...


Aside from subverting democracy, arming the mentally ill, rolling back women's rights and setting up a theocracy, what have the GOP ever done for us?
 
2013-01-26 09:21:59 PM  

Nanny Statesman: /In general this reads like a deliberate attempt at justifying the bullshiat the GOP is trying to pull.
//Because that's exactly what it is.
///Probably.


Its worse than that. Based on his previous articles, he seems to be one of those "Both sides are bad so vote Ron Paul" types.

It's always interesting to see their blissful naive view of the world.
 
2013-01-26 09:22:57 PM  

jake_lex: So if the intent is to have electoral results better match the popular vote, why not just use the popular vote?

Oh, yeah.  Because your guy got his ass kicked in the past two elections by that method too.

It's a little hard to claim this isn't about rigging the election when you propose to replace the current system with one that would have given your guy a majority of the electoral vote when his opponent had a majority of the popular vote.


The Republicans have won the popular vote just once since George H.W. Bush was elected.
 
2013-01-26 09:24:12 PM  

fusillade762: These liberals at NBC may not like that. But that's the reality - at least to those of us who understand politics.

Nothing like closing the article with some condescending douchebaggery.


did you notice that he only linked to himself in his argument? classic d-bag
 
2013-01-26 09:34:54 PM  
OW MY BRAINH. I READ THAT WHOLE ARTICAL AND COMMENTS. I THINK I HAD ANYURASM.

PLEESEW HELP.
 
2013-01-26 09:40:57 PM  

King Something: nmrsnr: abb3w: ...ignorant morons?

::sigh:: I always forget how many of them there are.

The question I always have is, is the writer an well-intentioned idiot, or a deliberately misleading piece of garbage who believes that lying to people in order to promote your own agenda is a desirable form of political discourse?

Yes.


Needed a small adjustment. Now I agree.
 
2013-01-26 09:44:07 PM  
If it's the same as a popular vote, why don't we just go straight to the popular vote system and not complicate things?

Oh right, your side gets the advantage the other way.
 
2013-01-26 09:44:19 PM  
One: Changing the way electoral votes are awarded is not "rigging the system."

Actually, that's exactly what it is.
 
2013-01-26 09:45:10 PM  

Target Builder: arming the mentally ill


and denying them health care, natch.
 
2013-01-26 09:50:02 PM  

Fast Moon: I'm kind of scared of where the Republican party is heading. They have two big policies at the moment. The first is to disenfranchise voters and gerrymander the hell out of everything to essentially make the people's votes worthless if they're able to vote at all. The second is to make military-grade firearms freely available with zero accountability, under the repeated mantra that citizens are obligated to effect change in their government through threat of violence.

The WASP demographic is quickly losing power, and they know for a fact that they'll never get that power back through a democratic process. The only solution is to destroy democracy and call for an armed revolution to topple the current government so they can set themselves back into power.


Encouraging a revolution...it's the ultimate enactment of the GOP's grand philosophy..."Government is always bad...here, watch us prove it."
 
2013-01-26 10:00:24 PM  
Just get rid of the Senate and be done with it.
 
2013-01-26 10:20:25 PM  

Larry Mahnken: jake_lex: So if the intent is to have electoral results better match the popular vote, why not just use the popular vote?

Oh, yeah.  Because your guy got his ass kicked in the past two elections by that method too.

It's a little hard to claim this isn't about rigging the election when you propose to replace the current system with one that would have given your guy a majority of the electoral vote when his opponent had a majority of the popular vote.

The Republicans have won the popular vote just once since George H.W. Bush was elected.


And that one victory in the last 20 years was not without the appearance of electoral fraud (discrepancy between exit-polling and official results beyond the margin of error, the guy about to testify against Karl Rove getting killed in an airplane "accident," etc.)

4 years after that one, they lost to a black guy named Hussein by over 9 and a half million votes.
 
2013-01-26 10:41:47 PM  

vygramul: Just get rid of the Senate and be done with it.


Fear will keep the local systems in line
 
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