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(NYPost)   State of NY to legal firearms owners, "Register your weapons, it's the law." Legal firearms owners to the State of NY, "Guns? I don't own any guns, and you can't prove it so go fark yourselves"   (nypost.com) divider line 1301
    More: Hero, New York, civil disobedience, Association of Baptist Churches in Ireland  
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17845 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jan 2013 at 4:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-26 07:47:55 PM

justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: ko_kyi: justtray: The unresponsible gun owners that don't want to register their weapons can go to jail where they belong when their unregistered weapons are exposed. If they choose to keep them hidden and never use them or have them seen in public or by a public officer, the goal was still accomplished.

What was the goal again?

To reduce the available supply of guns, and therefore crimes committed by guns.

How wild registration reduce the amount of guns or gum crime?

By creating a system of liability for weapons transferred to people who would use them for illegal acts. It creates a disincentive.

Why would someone intent on doing illegal acts register?

How would someone intent on doing illegal acts get their weapon?


From the black market.
 
2013-01-26 07:47:59 PM

Xcott: GoldSpider: Xcott: It's better to have some policy that just reduces the stunning increase in firearms sales and discourages firearm hoarding as a trendy new hobby

Why? Those aren't the people committing these murders.

What? Adam Lanza's mom was instrumental in his kid being a mass murderer instead of some shmo sending death threats to Garrison Keillor.

There are schizo kids out there, and the more people get into recreational firearm hoarding, the greater the odds one of those kids is going to live with a stash of guns.


Your parents should have kept you away from keyboards
 
2013-01-26 07:49:17 PM

xynix: cameroncrazy1984: That's why I refuse to register my car. It only makes it easier for the government to take it. For some reason. I guess.

Wow I didn't realize cars where in the constitution.. ? Which amendment is that covered under anyway? It's certainly not in the bill of rights. Guess your constitution is a more updated version that the one I'm used to. Is the right to have an internet in there too?


And where in the Constitution does in say you have the right to bear unregistered arms? Oh that's right, it doesn't. Registering does not interfere with your right to bear arms, just adds another step like a background check.
 
2013-01-26 07:49:26 PM

Xcott: What? Adam Lanza's mom was instrumental in his kid being a mass murderer instead of some shmo sending death threats to Garrison Keillor.


She wasn't the apocalypse-prepping, Paul Revere-fantasizing gun hoarder that people here like to hold up as the "average gun owner". She had a few guns, and one of them looked "scarier" than the others.
 
2013-01-26 07:49:27 PM

RINO: Harry Knutz: xynix: Almost universally the guns used in those crimes were obtained illegally.

But the weapons in Newtown were obtained legally. Had the mother in that instance (the mother being the untrained, uneducated person I described above) not been able to purchase extended magazines, the damage might have been less extensive. To be fair, I'm not saying that it would have prevented the rampage from happening in the first place -- that likely would have happened regardless, because the gunman was mentally ill and motivated -- but it might have been mitigated by the need to change magazines.

The weapons were obtained legally? So Amdam Lanza legally killed his mother and legally took possession of firearms belonging to somebody other than himself?


That was always my thought. People get overly hyper about it. It was stated by a friend that his mother always kept the guns locked up, and considering he shot her I consider the guns stolen. I find it hard to believe that she handed him guns and told him to shoot her and then go cause carnage.
 
2013-01-26 07:50:21 PM

craig328: Cheviot: The law already requires that all fully automatic weapons be registered, and a fee paid yearly to continue to own them. The Supreme Court held that the only parties constitutionally protected against registering such firearms were convicted felons, not as a violation of the 2nd amendment, but of the 5th, as they would have to admit to a felony to register the weapon.

Let's let that sink in. The Supreme Court has already held that firearm registration requirements are not unconstitutional.

So, I ask again, given that the constitutional argument was already voided by the Supreme Court, in what way does being forced to register a weapon prevent you from owning it or firing it?

Before I go there...is that the example you really want to use? Are you familiar with just how shaky the ground is that you'd be on if this is your argument?

To give you a hand, whether you're aware or not, the laws you're referring to are the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Gun Control Act of 1968, neither of which has been challenged at the SCOTUS (actually, the 1934 law was challenged, was found to be unconstitutional at the lower court level but was overturned at the SCOTUS because the original defendant was murdered before the case got heard...the defense had nobody to argue their side and the court dismissed it without a hearing on that basis).


The case was not dismissed. The government made its arguments and the justices voted, wrote an opinion and a dissent. The court found for the defense and made it clear in their opinion that while the 2nd amendment did not block the registration requirement, the 5th amendment did, in this case.


The federal laws significantly overstep the 10th Amendment and the interstate commerce clause...they just haven't ever been challenged on that basis.


No law brought before the Supreme Court and defended under the interstate commerce clause has ever been ruled unconstitutional by the court. That's not likely to change any time soon.

And just because it will probably bother you a little more I'll mention that the Supreme Court found it's constitutional to completely ban certain classes of weapons, so if NY so chose, they could simply ban assault weapons and still be within the bounds of the constitution.
 
2013-01-26 07:51:03 PM

TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: ko_kyi: justtray: The unresponsible gun owners that don't want to register their weapons can go to jail where they belong when their unregistered weapons are exposed. If they choose to keep them hidden and never use them or have them seen in public or by a public officer, the goal was still accomplished.

What was the goal again?

To reduce the available supply of guns, and therefore crimes committed by guns.

How wild registration reduce the amount of guns or gum crime?

By creating a system of liability for weapons transferred to people who would use them for illegal acts. It creates a disincentive.

Why would someone intent on doing illegal acts register?

How would someone intent on doing illegal acts get their weapon?

From the black market.


And how does the black market get their weapons?

Are you starting to get it yet? I know basic economics is hard for many farkers.
 
2013-01-26 07:51:15 PM

justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: ko_kyi: justtray: The unresponsible gun owners that don't want to register their weapons can go to jail where they belong when their unregistered weapons are exposed. If they choose to keep them hidden and never use them or have them seen in public or by a public officer, the goal was still accomplished.

What was the goal again?

To reduce the available supply of guns, and therefore crimes committed by guns.

How wild registration reduce the amount of guns or gum crime?

By creating a system of liability for weapons transferred to people who would use them for illegal acts. It creates a disincentive.

Why would someone intent on doing illegal acts register?

How would someone intent on doing illegal acts get their weapon?


Oh there are several ways really, they could make their own, kill someone for one, or just buy one. If you can smuggle a few hundred kilos of cocaine into america, I'm sure you could slip in a few shiatty hipoints.
 
2013-01-26 07:51:25 PM

EasyOsey: Registering does not interfere with your right to bear arms, just adds another step like a background check.


What is the purpose of the registration, again? Beyond a hoop to jump through, I mean?
 
2013-01-26 07:52:47 PM

justtray: And how does the black market get their weapons?

Are you starting to get it yet? I know basic economics is hard for many farkers.


From smugglers and overseas suppliers of cheap and effective arms once domestic supplies dry up. For someone who claims to be an expert at economics, you really fail at seeing the natural progression. The Cartels aren't using Chinese knock-offs in Mexico because there is an abundant supply of domestic weapons.
 
2013-01-26 07:53:35 PM

justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: ko_kyi: justtray: The unresponsible gun owners that don't want to register their weapons can go to jail where they belong when their unregistered weapons are exposed. If they choose to keep them hidden and never use them or have them seen in public or by a public officer, the goal was still accomplished.

What was the goal again?

To reduce the available supply of guns, and therefore crimes committed by guns.

How wild registration reduce the amount of guns or gum crime?

By creating a system of liability for weapons transferred to people who would use them for illegal acts. It creates a disincentive.

Why would someone intent on doing illegal acts register?

How would someone intent on doing illegal acts get their weapon?

From the black market.

And how does the black market get their weapons?

Are you starting to get it yet? I know basic economics is hard for many farkers.


So gun registration means guns will disappear and go away?
 
2013-01-26 07:53:40 PM

muck4doo: Your parents should have kept you away from keyboards


It's been said before and it bears repeating. Keyboards should be registered. The shameless ignorance of some of these posters being spread really is damaging to society, a tragic spreading of misinformation which results in an even more ignorant populace.

/sarcasm

Free speech, and the right to protect ourselves, should not be hampered in any way shape or form, until we prove we're unworthy or an unecessarily high risk. This way, it punishes the individual, not a reduction in rights for us all.

That people don't see this is beyond comprehension.

I think they like to stray from the mental health care focus for reasons of personal interest, as if it would somehow hamper their lifestyle. I wonder why that could be....(In other words, these people are farking crazy).
 
2013-01-26 07:53:54 PM

Chariset: Fark It: If there's one constant in the gun control debate it's that the people who support bans and confiscation will always, without fail, overreach.

Sure.  What's a school full of dead children compared to your personal momentary inconvenience?


Only 20 kids will killed - not a "school full"

The weapon that was used for the horrific crime was not a rifle, nor an assault weapon.

But..way to go on getting the facts straight and keeping your emotions in check.
 
2013-01-26 07:54:01 PM

EasyOsey: xynix: cameroncrazy1984: That's why I refuse to register my car. It only makes it easier for the government to take it. For some reason. I guess.

Wow I didn't realize cars where in the constitution.. ? Which amendment is that covered under anyway? It's certainly not in the bill of rights. Guess your constitution is a more updated version that the one I'm used to. Is the right to have an internet in there too?

And where in the Constitution does in say you have the right to bear unregistered arms? Oh that's right, it doesn't. Registering does not interfere with your right to bear arms, just adds another step like a background check.


Please register your comments before posting to whitehouse.gov
 
2013-01-26 07:54:44 PM

BronyMedic: justtray: And how does the black market get their weapons?

Are you starting to get it yet? I know basic economics is hard for many farkers.

From smugglers and overseas suppliers of cheap and effective arms once domestic supplies dry up. For someone who claims to be an expert at economics, you really fail at seeing the natural progression. The Cartels aren't using Chinese knock-offs in Mexico because there is an abundant supply of domestic weapons.


Just as easy as buying one with no paperwork on any street corner. That's why instead of going to dispensory, I always go straight to the drug lords for my pot.

Give it a few moments, I think the point and argument will eventually sink in. Try not to think only using black and white.
 
2013-01-26 07:55:07 PM

EasyOsey: Registering does not interfere with your right to bear arms, just adds another step like a background check.



Where is it guaranteed that registration can never be used as a step for confiscation? Because history has shown the opposite.

While a newly banned unregistered gun may be illegal, confiscating it would be a fifth amendment violation. But if that newly banned gun is registered, that registration is considered probable cause for police to come in and take it, as has happened several times within the US.
 
2013-01-26 07:55:27 PM

take_flight: RINO: Harry Knutz: xynix: Almost universally the guns used in those crimes were obtained illegally.

But the weapons in Newtown were obtained legally. Had the mother in that instance (the mother being the untrained, uneducated person I described above) not been able to purchase extended magazines, the damage might have been less extensive. To be fair, I'm not saying that it would have prevented the rampage from happening in the first place -- that likely would have happened regardless, because the gunman was mentally ill and motivated -- but it might have been mitigated by the need to change magazines.

The weapons were obtained legally? So Amdam Lanza legally killed his mother and legally took possession of firearms belonging to somebody other than himself?

That was always my thought. People get overly hyper about it. It was stated by a friend that his mother always kept the guns locked up, and considering he shot her I consider the guns stolen. I find it hard to believe that she handed him guns and told him to shoot her and then go cause carnage.


It's pretty simple. The mother purchased the guns and extended magazines legally. If she had not been able to purchase extended magazines, there would have been none available for her son to use in the massacre. As a result, it can be argued that some number of lives may have been saved if he had to stop to reload. But to be fair, yes, he did illegally obtain those weapons by shooting his mother in the face with them.
 
2013-01-26 07:55:34 PM

TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: ko_kyi: justtray: The unresponsible gun owners that don't want to register their weapons can go to jail where they belong when their unregistered weapons are exposed. If they choose to keep them hidden and never use them or have them seen in public or by a public officer, the goal was still accomplished.

What was the goal again?

To reduce the available supply of guns, and therefore crimes committed by guns.

How wild registration reduce the amount of guns or gum crime?

By creating a system of liability for weapons transferred to people who would use them for illegal acts. It creates a disincentive.

Why would someone intent on doing illegal acts register?

How would someone intent on doing illegal acts get their weapon?

From the black market.

And how does the black market get their weapons?

Are you starting to get it yet? I know basic economics is hard for many farkers.

So gun registration means guns will disappear and go away?


Nirvana fallacy.
 
2013-01-26 07:55:48 PM
If it helps reduce gun trafficking, or holds violators to a harsher penalty, I'm all for it. Every firearm should be registered.
 
2013-01-26 07:56:06 PM

truthseeker2083: I don't have any guns, but when people are anti-gun/pro gun control, you aren't helping anything with the bs name calling. Saying 'gun nuts', or saying guns are replacements for small dangly bits, or any of those childish things just push people away from your side. I see gun owners explain how things work much better than I've seen gun control advocates explain their side. Due to the sheer immaturity and childlike name calling, you are hurting your argument. So much so, that while I used to be 'meh' on guns, I'm now leaning towards the gun owner's point of view. It may start with 'oh just register your gun, nothing will happen', but when governments want to crack down further, it'll just be that much easier. Right now it's just registration, what will it be tomorrow?


This.

And thank you :)
 
2013-01-26 07:56:11 PM
Before Cannabis was fully illegal, one step the government took was to require tax stamps for the purchase. Then, they didn't approve any tax stamps, so no one could legally own cannabis. What are the chances the government uses gun registration in the same way? 'You must register to own this gun... oh, wait, we aren't approving any more registrations...' It's happened before, and it will happen again unless we stop it.
 
2013-01-26 07:56:44 PM

pedrop357: LavenderWolf: I don't see the leap in reasoning that makes registering firearms an infringement on using them.

You have to register to vote, how is this different?

The person is registering to vote and you only have to do that once.


This is the dumbest excuse for anything that I have ever read.
 
2013-01-26 07:56:52 PM

take_flight: It was stated by a friend that his mother always kept the guns locked up, and considering he shot her I consider the guns stolen.


Cite?

And what did he shoot her with?
 
2013-01-26 07:56:53 PM

MBrady: Chariset: Fark It: If there's one constant in the gun control debate it's that the people who support bans and confiscation will always, without fail, overreach.

Sure.  What's a school full of dead children compared to your personal momentary inconvenience?

Only 20 kids will killed - not a "school full"

The weapon that was used for the horrific crime was not a rifle, nor an assault weapon.

But..way to go on getting the facts straight and keeping your emotions in check.


... What?
 
2013-01-26 07:56:57 PM

vpb: Amos Quito:

"All those school shootings" combined are but a fraction of a percentage of all gun-related crimes.

So they don't matter and there's no point in doing anything about them, right?


Um...yes.
 
2013-01-26 07:57:03 PM

vpb: Or to hold the owners responsible if they fail to secure them properly and they are stolen and used in a crime, or if they are sold to a criminal.


Shift the blame for a crime to the victim?

I remember when they did that for auto theft. The police came on the television telling everyone car theft was their fault for leaving their keys in the car. They all but gave criminals permission to steal a car that had the keys in it.

You hardly ever heard of a car being stolen outside of the occasional joy ride back them.
 
2013-01-26 07:57:03 PM
Good. Registration is pretty ridiculous anyways.
It doesn't stop violence.
It doesn't stop crime.
Knowing who owned a weapon doesn't change a tragedy after the fact, and doesn't prove who pulled a trigger. Sure, it can provide a lead, but can also provide a FALSE lead and false suspects too.

Fark em.
 
2013-01-26 07:57:14 PM

justtray: Just as easy as buying one with no paperwork on any street corner.


Uh, it's actually QUITE easy to get an illegally purchased or stolen firearm off the streets. Urban or Rural areas. It all depends on who you know.

justtray: That's why instead of going to dispensory, I always go straight to the drug lords for my pot.


Amazing. It's almost as if legalization instead of prohibition encourages determined people to follow the law, rather than use the black market.
 
2013-01-26 07:57:49 PM

justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: ko_kyi: justtray: The unresponsible gun owners that don't want to register their weapons can go to jail where they belong when their unregistered weapons are exposed. If they choose to keep them hidden and never use them or have them seen in public or by a public officer, the goal was still accomplished.

What was the goal again?

To reduce the available supply of guns, and therefore crimes committed by guns.

How wild registration reduce the amount of guns or gum crime?

By creating a system of liability for weapons transferred to people who would use them for illegal acts. It creates a disincentive.

Why would someone intent on doing illegal acts register?

How would someone intent on doing illegal acts get their weapon?

From the black market.

And how does the black market get their weapons?

Are you starting to get it yet? I know basic economics is hard for many farkers.

So gun registration means guns will disappear and go away?

Nirvana fallacy.


Thank you for admitting your argument is a Nirvana fallacy.
 
2013-01-26 07:58:39 PM

Gdalescrboz: LavenderWolf: pedrop357: LavenderWolf: Yes, those big gun grabs in the US. Now no Americans have guns.

So it only counts if they go big? Smaller actual events, and larger proposals don't count?

So issues of scale mean nothing in your world?

Slavery wasn't a big deal either because only a very small number of people owned slaves. That's your logic at work, you farking schmuck


No, retard, the point wasn't "Well it's small scale, so not a big deal."

It was "Okay, you might have taken guns from a few people, but good farking luck on a 'big gun grab' the far-right is constantly worried about."

Issues of scale. Not an issue of whether something is a "big deal" or not.
 
2013-01-26 07:58:43 PM

truthseeker2083: I don't have any guns, but when people are anti-gun/pro gun control, you aren't helping anything with the bs name calling. Saying 'gun nuts', or saying guns are replacements for small dangly bits, or any of those childish things just push people away from your side. I see gun owners explain how things work much better than I've seen gun control advocates explain their side. Due to the sheer immaturity and childlike name calling, you are hurting your argument. So much so, that while I used to be 'meh' on guns, I'm now leaning towards the gun owner's point of view. It may start with 'oh just register your gun, nothing will happen', but when governments want to crack down further, it'll just be that much easier. Right now it's just registration, what will it be tomorrow?


Sorry, I guess I missed all that over being called a "gun grabber" and compared to Hitler for promoting universal background checks.
 
2013-01-26 07:58:57 PM

Wayne 985: If it helps reduce gun trafficking, or holds violators to a harsher penalty, I'm all for it. Every firearm should be registered.


There we go. Someone possesses common sense.
 
2013-01-26 07:59:34 PM

truthseeker2083: Before Cannabis was fully illegal, one step the government took was to require tax stamps for the purchase. Then, they didn't approve any tax stamps, so no one could legally own cannabis. What are the chances the government uses gun registration in the same way? 'You must register to own this gun... oh, wait, we aren't approving any more registrations...' It's happened before, and it will happen again unless we stop it.


You get it, sadly, many here don't.
 
2013-01-26 07:59:49 PM

2 Replies: Good. Registration is pretty ridiculous anyways.
It doesn't stop violence.
It doesn't stop crime.
Knowing who owned a weapon doesn't change a tragedy after the fact, and doesn't prove who pulled a trigger. Sure, it can provide a lead, but can also provide a FALSE lead and false suspects too.

Fark em.


That's... dumb, my friend. By that rationale, we shouldn't look for fingerprints at crime scenes.
 
2013-01-26 08:00:05 PM

Harry Knutz: As a result, it can be argued that some number of lives may have been saved if he had to stop to reload. But to be fair, yes, he did illegally obtain those weapons by shooting his mother in the face with them.


He did reload multiple times. He left partially loaded magazines in various classrooms. Magazine capacity was not an issue for him, nor would limiting magazines have done anything for him.
 
2013-01-26 08:00:32 PM

justtray: BronyMedic: justtray: And how does the black market get their weapons?

Are you starting to get it yet? I know basic economics is hard for many farkers.

From smugglers and overseas suppliers of cheap and effective arms once domestic supplies dry up. For someone who claims to be an expert at economics, you really fail at seeing the natural progression. The Cartels aren't using Chinese knock-offs in Mexico because there is an abundant supply of domestic weapons.

Just as easy as buying one with no paperwork on any street corner. That's why instead of going to dispensory, I always go straight to the drug lords for my pot.

Give it a few moments, I think the point and argument will eventually sink in. Try not to think only using black and white.


Uh what? You realize that you don't have to try that hard to find an illegal gun dealer. Drug lord? Derp.
 
2013-01-26 08:01:26 PM

TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: ko_kyi: justtray: The unresponsible gun owners that don't want to register their weapons can go to jail where they belong when their unregistered weapons are exposed. If they choose to keep them hidden and never use them or have them seen in public or by a public officer, the goal was still accomplished.

What was the goal again?

To reduce the available supply of guns, and therefore crimes committed by guns.

How wild registration reduce the amount of guns or gum crime?

By creating a system of liability for weapons transferred to people who would use them for illegal acts. It creates a disincentive.

Why would someone intent on doing illegal acts register?

How would someone intent on doing illegal acts get their weapon?

From the black market.

And how does the black market get their weapons?

Are you starting to get it yet? I know basic economics is hard for many farkers.

So gun registration means guns will disappear and go away?

Nirvana fallacy.

Thank you for admitting your argument is a Nirvana fallacy.


I would think by all the times you guys use them, you would have realized by now which of your arguments are logical fallacies. But you just keep spewing them out, over and over again.
 
2013-01-26 08:02:17 PM

Zeke The Octopus: truthseeker2083: I don't have any guns, but when people are anti-gun/pro gun control, you aren't helping anything with the bs name calling. Saying 'gun nuts', or saying guns are replacements for small dangly bits, or any of those childish things just push people away from your side. I see gun owners explain how things work much better than I've seen gun control advocates explain their side. Due to the sheer immaturity and childlike name calling, you are hurting your argument. So much so, that while I used to be 'meh' on guns, I'm now leaning towards the gun owner's point of view. It may start with 'oh just register your gun, nothing will happen', but when governments want to crack down further, it'll just be that much easier. Right now it's just registration, what will it be tomorrow?

This.

And thank you :)


No prob. I'm sick of being told that because I don't like my rights being eroded means I'm a traitor, or have a small penis. I don't have a gun but I also don't support giving my right to own one up to the government. Why call for registration to 'save the children' unless you believe that's a way to get rid of guns?

/i hate that all of our rights are under attack by the force whose duty it is to protect them
 
2013-01-26 08:02:50 PM

justtray: Wayne 985: If it helps reduce gun trafficking, or holds violators to a harsher penalty, I'm all for it. Every firearm should be registered.

There we go. Someone possesses common sense.


Your comments need to be registered with the government before appearing in public. Many idiots like yourself and Charles Manson have shown that speech by idiots leads to deaths. Please register first before posting again. After your thoughts have been approved you can then proceed to practice your first amendment rights.
 
2013-01-26 08:02:56 PM

justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: ko_kyi: justtray: The unresponsible gun owners that don't want to register their weapons can go to jail where they belong when their unregistered weapons are exposed. If they choose to keep them hidden and never use them or have them seen in public or by a public officer, the goal was still accomplished.

What was the goal again?

To reduce the available supply of guns, and therefore crimes committed by guns.

How wild registration reduce the amount of guns or gum crime?

By creating a system of liability for weapons transferred to people who would use them for illegal acts. It creates a disincentive.

Why would someone intent on doing illegal acts register?

How would someone intent on doing illegal acts get their weapon?

From the black market.

And how does the black market get their weapons?

Are you starting to get it yet? I know basic economics is hard for many farkers.

So gun registration means guns will disappear and go away?

Nirvana fallacy.

Thank you for admitting your argument is a Nirvana fallacy.

I would think by all the times you guys use them, you would have realized by now which of your arguments are logical fallacies. But you just keep spewing them out, over and over again.


What are you even talking about at this point, you're the one making retarded arguments that have no rationale.
 
2013-01-26 08:03:08 PM

justtray: I would think by all the times you guys use them, you would have realized by now which of your arguments are logical fallacies. But you just keep spewing them out, over and over again.


And as someone who makes it a habit to call people out over fallacious arguments, I'm going to point out you're now resorting to the Fallacist's Fallacy to declare victory.
 
2013-01-26 08:03:30 PM

muck4doo: PsiChick: muck4doo: PsiChick: Okay. Can you please explain to me WHAT THE FARK YOU'RE DISAGREEING ABOUT? I don't like the law, dipshiat! FFS, not everyone is your farking enemy.

You register this post yet? I can't comment back on it till you do.

/OK. Maybe I misunderstood you original post. :)

Lol, my Boobies was just pointing out that 'FU' isn't an actual protest, it's a temper tantrum. Lawsuits, in this case, work better.

/What did you  think I said?

Looked to me like you were saying you didn't have a problem with making people register their arms.


No, I was saying that the law is functionally obnoxious but nothing else (although, since it's totally unsupportable and paves the way for illegal behavior on the part of officials, is deserving of a smackdown). My original post was just saying 'FU != protest'. I had to clarify because I went off on a tangent and forgot to rewrite it.
 
2013-01-26 08:03:31 PM

TheJoe03: justtray: BronyMedic: justtray: And how does the black market get their weapons?

Are you starting to get it yet? I know basic economics is hard for many farkers.

From smugglers and overseas suppliers of cheap and effective arms once domestic supplies dry up. For someone who claims to be an expert at economics, you really fail at seeing the natural progression. The Cartels aren't using Chinese knock-offs in Mexico because there is an abundant supply of domestic weapons.

Just as easy as buying one with no paperwork on any street corner. That's why instead of going to dispensory, I always go straight to the drug lords for my pot.

Give it a few moments, I think the point and argument will eventually sink in. Try not to think only using black and white.

Uh what? You realize that you don't have to try that hard to find an illegal gun dealer. Drug lord? Derp.


Way to miss the point. Bravo.

I can see you're a mental lost cause, so I won't be humoring your dishonest arguments and willful ignorance anymore.
 
2013-01-26 08:04:22 PM

justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: ko_kyi: justtray: The unresponsible gun owners that don't want to register their weapons can go to jail where they belong when their unregistered weapons are exposed. If they choose to keep them hidden and never use them or have them seen in public or by a public officer, the goal was still accomplished.

What was the goal again?

To reduce the available supply of guns, and therefore crimes committed by guns.

How wild registration reduce the amount of guns or gum crime?

By creating a system of liability for weapons transferred to people who would use them for illegal acts. It creates a disincentive.

Why would someone intent on doing illegal acts register?

How would someone intent on doing illegal acts get their weapon?


Illegally, of course.

Steal it from someone. Buy it on the black market. Buy it in Mexico and smuggle it in.

Registration stops none of these.
 
spr
2013-01-26 08:04:43 PM
Someone asked where criminals get their guns.

... from the Department of Justice. Duh.
 
2013-01-26 08:04:52 PM

justtray: Way to miss the point. Bravo.

I can see you're a mental lost cause, so I won't be humoring your dishonest arguments and willful ignorance anymore.


You've been rude and condescending, and acting as a pseudo-intellectual superior towards people who disagree with you this entire thread. You have no right to be offended that people would treat you with the same attitude because of it.
 
2013-01-26 08:05:14 PM

justtray: TheJoe03: justtray: BronyMedic: justtray: And how does the black market get their weapons?

Are you starting to get it yet? I know basic economics is hard for many farkers.

From smugglers and overseas suppliers of cheap and effective arms once domestic supplies dry up. For someone who claims to be an expert at economics, you really fail at seeing the natural progression. The Cartels aren't using Chinese knock-offs in Mexico because there is an abundant supply of domestic weapons.

Just as easy as buying one with no paperwork on any street corner. That's why instead of going to dispensory, I always go straight to the drug lords for my pot.

Give it a few moments, I think the point and argument will eventually sink in. Try not to think only using black and white.

Uh what? You realize that you don't have to try that hard to find an illegal gun dealer. Drug lord? Derp.

Way to miss the point. Bravo.

I can see you're a mental lost cause, so I won't be humoring your dishonest arguments and willful ignorance anymore.


Translation: I'm a arrogant yet ignorant and stupid person that has no point.
 
2013-01-26 08:05:38 PM

pedrop357: Harry Knutz: As a result, it can be argued that some number of lives may have been saved if he had to stop to reload. But to be fair, yes, he did illegally obtain those weapons by shooting his mother in the face with them.

He did reload multiple times. He left partially loaded magazines in various classrooms. Magazine capacity was not an issue for him, nor would limiting magazines have done anything for him.


All you've shown is he didn't empty magazines before reloading. That in no way proves smaller magazines wouldn't have made the murders more difficult.

You may now proceed to your next fallacious argument.
 
2013-01-26 08:06:02 PM

Xcott: djh0101010: Guns are pieces of metal, wood, and plastic. They don't actually do anything by themselves. Weird, but true. Criminals, on the other hand, are people who do bad things, usually in an escalating pattern of evilness.

Instead of taking my 20 round magazines away, or saying I can't buy more of them, which had NO effect in the 10 years the last time your people tried this, could we please, just stay with me here, could we please just have manditory 5 year jail time add-ons for anyone using a gun in a crime?

How does that prevent the next Sandy Hook or VT shooting? The killer was a messed-up kid who took his own life, and probably didn't give a crap what his hypothetical prison sentence would be.

He also had no criminal background: it wasn't an escalating pattern of evilness, it was just suddenly this guy killing a bunch of kids.

You know what would have stopped this schizo kid from shooting up a school? Not living with a gun "enthusiast" mom. This is what made him different from most other schizo kids who don't shoot up schools: this one lived with an arms stash, because it has become a giant fad to stockpile weapons. This guy's mom could have taken up knitting, but she got into "doomsday prepping."

I agree that some limits on extended magazines are not going to reverse the trend. It's better to have some policy that just reduces the stunning increase in firearms sales and discourages firearm hoarding as a trendy new hobby. Something like a 100% sin tax on all firearm and ammunition sales would help. Alternatively, we could use this disaster to effectively shame the conservative media empire that has been scaring half the country into buying gold and AR-15s. We wouldn't have nearly as many people preparing for the economy collapsing if nobody was feeding that dreck to them.


This sort of precaution will completely have NO effect on the VT, the CONN, and the other mass muderers. Those people are 3% of the murderous death creators, at most.

Punishing convicted criminals for their actions, is a much better approach. This way, we jail the people who misuse guns to attack good people, while we encourage the good people, who are not criminals, to help law enforcement to stop the bad guys.

It's not just a fantasy. Project Exile, in the 1990s in Virginia, had mandatory jail time for felons using guns, and violent crime dropped double digit percentages every year that was in effect.

When the Brady campaign, AND the NRA agree on something, and it's proven to work, perhaps that thing should be promoted. Please go read about Project Exile, and, please then follow this up by telling your congressman and senators that you want them to at least consider it.
 
2013-01-26 08:06:49 PM

Harry Knutz: take_flight: RINO: Harry Knutz: xynix: Almost universally the guns used in those crimes were obtained illegally.

But the weapons in Newtown were obtained legally. Had the mother in that instance (the mother being the untrained, uneducated person I described above) not been able to purchase extended magazines, the damage might have been less extensive. To be fair, I'm not saying that it would have prevented the rampage from happening in the first place -- that likely would have happened regardless, because the gunman was mentally ill and motivated -- but it might have been mitigated by the need to change magazines.

The weapons were obtained legally? So Amdam Lanza legally killed his mother and legally took possession of firearms belonging to somebody other than himself?

That was always my thought. People get overly hyper about it. It was stated by a friend that his mother always kept the guns locked up, and considering he shot her I consider the guns stolen. I find it hard to believe that she handed him guns and told him to shoot her and then go cause carnage.

It's pretty simple. The mother purchased the guns and extended magazines legally. If she had not been able to purchase extended magazines, there would have been none available for her son to use in the massacre. As a result, it can be argued that some number of lives may have been saved if he had to stop to reload. But to be fair, yes, he did illegally obtain those weapons by shooting his mother in the face with them.


If his mother could not have purchased extended magazines, then yes, he would have had to reload thus possibly saving lives, but honestly I've always thought that crazy people will always do crazy things, and if he was suicidal, and didn't have access to guns, and determined...he could have walked in to the school strapped with an explosive device and taken out more kids.

I understand your argument, but my friends and I have always had a saying..."You can't trump crazy"...
 
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