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(Wisconsin Gazette)   North Carolina wants to bar the bankrupt and welfare recipients from buying lottery tickets. No jackpots for the poor   (wisconsingazette.com) divider line 300
    More: Interesting, North Carolina, welfare, bankruptcy, mess  
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5339 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jan 2013 at 10:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-26 11:34:43 AM
Who the fark do they think buys all the lottery tickets? Educated, affluent, employed people?

A new level of stupid: preventing the stupid from paying the stupid tax.
 
2013-01-26 11:35:39 AM

Riche: I sometimes think GOP politicians must lie awake almost every night staring at the ceiling, trying desperately to think up new ways to make life just a little more miserable for the poor.


You mean like disabusing them of the notion that they are going to get rich playing the lottery?
You mean like trying to get them to spend that extra few dollars a week on food for their kids?

Or did you mean like trying to slow down, just a little, the stream of bad decisions that have lead them to this place? I'm not saying that all poor people are in that situation due to bad decisions, but I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of poor people who play the lottery regularly are.
 
2013-01-26 11:35:47 AM

MmmmBacon: They are saying that the mythic "Welfare Queen" (which doesn't really exist, other than in the minds of the GOP)


Define "welfare queen", and for any definition you come up with, I bet someone can give a real-life example.
 
2013-01-26 11:35:54 AM

DrewCurtisJr: Via Infinito: But that's even crappier, isn't it? Letting them spending that dollar they found under the cushions on a lottery ticket, but not letting them have the prize when they win? I don't think lottery winners should be allowed to STAY on welfare when they win, but making people ineligible for the prize because they've been dealt a seriously shiatty hand at life just seems incredibly mean-spirited. I'm not sure what kind of point they're trying to make here.

If you have been dealt such a bad hand you would be better off saving any found money instead of spending it on frivolity.


When did Oliver Cromwell get a Fark account?
 
2013-01-26 11:37:13 AM

Proteios1: Being a white male with middle class parents who make enough that I couldn't qualify for food stamps, yet not enough to support me or pay tuition for college, I admit I survived in part due to people on food stamps selling me $20-$50 worth of stamps for $5 or $10 bucks because then they could buy...whatever. It bums me out my role in these people's bad choices and on the other hand, I was able to eat most days and was not involved in crime. I guess this is more of a confession and insight than a witty put down of someone else.


But you were involved in crime - food stamp fraud.
 
2013-01-26 11:39:00 AM

davidphogan: Mugato: davidphogan: I'm sure nobody commits fraud in your sheltered life, but it does happen.

If you had read more than the last sentence in my post you'd see that I'm not arguing that people don't spend money they don't have on gambling. I was referring to people's disproportionate concern with a few welfare recipients spending their money in less than judicious ways when the government spends a shiatton more money on things like corporate welfare, wasteful defense spending, subsidies and so on. And the typical response to that is, "Well we're mad about that too", except they're not nearly as loud about it.

Cute little dig about my "sheltered life", nice touch. No, I'm not exposed to the horrors of the war torn public school system. I hope you all don't have PTSD.

Maybe it helps that I'm not very conservative, but I'm just sick of people defending waste because it's not as bad as some other kind of waste. How about we get all of it under control, or at least admit that our state lotteries might be a great way to fund parks and schools and stuff, but might have negative consequences that we all pay for in some way?


Because there's no such thing as a complex system that is perfect.

It's an issue of resource allocation. Do you think we should spend a ton of money preventing the incredibly small amount of welfare fraud, or would we get more benefit from spending that money on something else? that's the only pertinent question.
 
2013-01-26 11:39:23 AM
i1125.photobucket.com

/So much bootstrappiness.
 
2013-01-26 11:40:01 AM

Real Women Drink Akvavit:


Even my stupid butt knows how to use an ATM and I'm sure if I were on welfare I'd know how to get cash back from the market or use an ATM just as well.


Your butt can read braille ?
 
2013-01-26 11:40:36 AM
As a resident of North Carolina, I am sick and tired of seeing people pay for their groceries with an EBT card (which are normally traded for drugs & alcohol within 10 minutes of leaving the store) and then paying for lottery tickets with cash in the same transaction. This law would put an end to this nonsense.
 
2013-01-26 11:41:12 AM
Kinda chaps a lot of folks arses that the poor on welfare might be squandering their money, doesn't it? Money these folks worked hard to earn and pay in taxes.

Of course, every State Lottery was created to generate funds for the State from ticket sales, plus the government gets 60% of the winnings back on the really big draws -- though not the scratch off tickets.

During economic declines, the lotteries have historically given folks hope and helped finance government programs. This has gone on for hundreds of years. Even organized crime initiated lotteries, adjusting the payout to maximize their profits.

When the Florida Lottery was started, I noticed a whole lot of people made small wins, and it dawned on me that the system had been rigged to pay out more to get folks 'hooked'. Within a year, the frequency of wins dropped.

I understood that. Though, the lottery was approved by popular vote because the profits were to help the failing schools. Within 4 years, we found out huge amounts of the funds were going every place else as State legislators eagerly grabbed up funds from the 'unexpected' bounty, leaving the schools in nearly as bad a shape as they were before.

The lottery is gambling. When you have gambling you'll have a small number of folks who will become addicted to it and the inevitable amount who will try and cheat or who will go bankrupt trying to beat the odds.

However, the State still wins. It develops a new source for billions in additional funds. The most desperate and economically challenged will spend the most on average for a chance of a big, life changing win.

Lotteries give them hope when all other avenues have been exhausted. A series of small wins, easily set by the lottery, encourages them to keep buying.

Your middle class will buy less tickets, knowing that their chances of winning a million dollar payout come to something near the chances of a meteorite landing in their front yard. They'll play the stock market -- and as we saw in the 80's and 90's, as technology allowed everyone to become their own stock broker, screw the market up for everyone.

Others will become 'flippers', buying, repairing and selling cheap homes for a profit, which jacks up the cost of homes in the local market plus tends to increase property taxes. That damages local economies in the long run in low income neighborhoods.

BTW. The poor borrow more money. Since the cap on interest rates was voided years back, we've seen an explosion of privately owned 'Payroll Loan' places, backed by well off folks who rake in 5% on every check cashed and can charge up to 400% interest on a loan made.

Now, don't forget the booze companies who have designed 'special' brands and bottles targeting the poor. Like 40 oz beers -- which also now come in flavors. A predominate wine company which manufactures rotgut to be sold cheaply in low income neighborhoods and those products which have alcohol levels artificially increased.

Convenience stores or 'Bodega's' have popped up, dramatically increasing the cost of products designed to attract the poor.

Pretty much, if you're poor, there's a thousand ways for you to be fleeced out of your money that does not affect the upper classes. Actually, many of the upper classes profit from it.

I once tracked down the owner of a particularly decrepit series of rentals in a poor neighborhood, where the renters paid considerably more for less than I did in my nicer apartment in a better section of town. Repairs were hard to get done. The area was high crime.

The actual owner turned out to be a State Senator. He owned the places through a business he had set up, which had then invested in them. The many lawsuits from the renters never mentioned his name.

So, let the low income folks have their lottery. There's a long list of businesses set up to screw them out of their money anyhow so they deserve some hope for a better future.
 
2013-01-26 11:41:21 AM

davidphogan: I'm just sick of people defending waste because it's not as bad as some other kind of waste


I'm not defending it. I guess I'm just suggesting people prioritize or at least get just as angry over the real government waste in this country. If these people are going to have an aneurism over a tiny portion of their taxes going to some dead beat spending a few dollars on lottery tickets, they should be infinity more pissed at the real things the government blows their tax dollars on. But it's easier to whine about this sort of thing and there's usually an underlying contempt for people receiving a pittance from the gov't for what they think is being lazy (and sometimes is). But it's a drop in the ocean towards the type of spending they should be crying about. That's mostly what I was saying.
 
2013-01-26 11:44:00 AM

leevis: Riche: I sometimes think GOP democratic politicians must lie awake almost every night staring at the ceiling, trying desperately to think up new ways to make life just a little more miserable for the poor take more money out of my paycheck and tell me it's for my own good because they care about me.

Both parties can go EABOD. I've learned how to use the write-in line on my ballot and walk out of the voting booth with a clear conscience.


Ahh, so, you're a nut. Good for you!
 
2013-01-26 11:44:26 AM

Mugato: davidphogan: I'm just sick of people defending waste because it's not as bad as some other kind of waste

I'm not defending it. I guess I'm just suggesting people prioritize or at least get just as angry over the real government waste in this country. If these people are going to have an aneurism over a tiny portion of their taxes going to some dead beat spending a few dollars on lottery tickets, they should be infinity more pissed at the real things the government blows their tax dollars on. But it's easier to whine about this sort of thing and there's usually an underlying contempt for people receiving a pittance from the gov't for what they think is being lazy (and sometimes is). But it's a drop in the ocean towards the type of spending they should be crying about. That's mostly what I was saying.


It is called distraction.
Distract from the real gravy train and fixate fools on the chump change.
 
2013-01-26 11:44:55 AM
Do they use food stamps to pay for the lottery tickets or something? And they act like one of these people wins the lottery every five seconds!!!
 
2013-01-26 11:45:13 AM

space1999: MmmmBacon: They are saying that the mythic "Welfare Queen" (which doesn't really exist, other than in the minds of the GOP)

Sorry, bud, but there are quite a few welfare queens. Sure, they're in the minority, but saying that they don't exist is naive. I have personal experience with them.


I doubt it, since it's pretty much impossible now.

Given how AFDC was terminated and replaced with TANF, which has a lifetime limit on how long you can be on it.

The "Welfare Queen" is this mythic Conservative bogeyman of a woman who doesn't work and doesn't want to (maybe never even worked a day in her life) and has a group of kids which she uses to get money from the state.

She lives on the taxpayer dime, with her housing covered by taxpayer money, driving a Cadillac paid for with "welfare" money, neglecting her kids and giving them only the bare minimum to make all those welfare dollars stretch further so she can live a life of relative luxury on the taxpayer dime and never have to work a day in her life.

You know somebody like this? Now, as in right now? What freaking government programs are the on, since "welfare" as it used to be ended years ago.
 
2013-01-26 11:46:57 AM

way south: Howie Spankowitz: Demonize the poor.  Ignore the real problems that underlie poverty.  Lather.  Rinse.  Repeat.

One of the things that leads to poverty is a willing acceptance of it. People sink into bad habits rather than making the changes needed to get out of the slums and into a more productive way of life.

Welfare should be viewed as a leg up or a loan more than just another entitlement. Putting a few rules on these folks, so we get the most effect from the money, is not unreasonable.

/No drugs, no smoking, no drinking, no gambling, no whores, no frivolities.
/get your ass to job training, counseling, therapy or whatever it takes to straighten you out.
/want to play the lotto? Do it on your own dime or pay Uncle Sam the winnings.


I get where you're going, but saying no smoking or drinking is just draconian.  You can't deny people enjoyment of life.

Drugs are already illegal, as are prostitutes in 99.9% of the country.
 
2013-01-26 11:47:06 AM

snocone: It is called distraction.
Distract from the real gravy train and fixate fools on the chump change.


Thank you. Now I'm going to find a thread and talk about movies.

/dammit, this thing's almost done rendering I actually have to go back to work
//meh, I can do both
 
2013-01-26 11:48:10 AM

gblive: As a resident of North Carolina, I am sick and tired of seeing people pay for their groceries with an EBT card (which are normally traded for drugs & alcohol within 10 minutes of leaving the store) and then paying for lottery tickets with cash in the same transaction. This law would put an end to this nonsense.


No, it would not.
You just don't get it.
And prolly never will.
 
2013-01-26 11:50:45 AM

fredklein: MmmmBacon: They are saying that the mythic "Welfare Queen" (which doesn't really exist, other than in the minds of the GOP)

Define "welfare queen", and for any definition you come up with, I bet someone can give a real-life example.


I don't think the point is that there are *no* welfare queens.  Describe any type of person, and I'm sure that person exists in our 300 million population.

The issue is that some people are pushing the myth that MOST people on welfare are "welfare queens".

That's not true.
 
2013-01-26 11:51:27 AM

RichMeatyTaste: I'm not saying they are living like a "queen" or "king", but when you drop your child off driving a newer/nicer car, and (always) have hair and nails that are always professionally done, always have the latest cel phone, BUT your kid is dressed like a hobo and gets free lunch AND breakfast you might just be abusing welfare. This isn't one family per school per year doing this either.


It's almost like some of those people might be getting income other ways, possibly by doing illegal things.

It's also possible that all those things can be explained legitimately. (Borrowed car, professional stylist friend, family member with cell phone employee discount, etc).
 
2013-01-26 11:53:07 AM

davidphogan: society


Yeah! fark Society! Anarchy! Wooooo!

Also, McCrory wants to eliminate income tax and jack up sales tax. What class warfare?
 
2013-01-26 11:54:15 AM

GilRuiz1: The poor can buy lottery tickets: "OMG TAX ON THE POOR."

The poor can't buy lottery tickets: "OMG THEY'RE BEING OPPRESSED."

/Make up your minds.


It's not a tax on the poor, it's a tax on people who don't understand math.
 
2013-01-26 11:58:58 AM
I live in NC and find it amusing that the state want's to shut down slot machines in stores, but will continue to allow them to sell lottery tickets. Got to keep a tight fist on gambling profits.
 
2013-01-26 11:59:06 AM
I spent 12 years in the rent to own industry and there are plenty of "welfare queens" and "welfare kings" too for what it's worth but you have to adjust your definition of royalty to make it work since they aren't even hitting close to a comfortable lifestyle. If your definition of royalty is $800/month and three small kids then Hail to the King! That isn't the people defrauding the welfare system but as much as people like to trumpet the few examples of people ripping the system off they are in the minority and it is rare to get away with it for long. The only frequent "fraud" I knew of is women that lived in subsidized housing but had a live in boyfriend helping to pay the bills so she'd be charged as little as $80/month for rent rather than market rates. The flipside is that if the women report the boyfriend her rates instantly jump and if he moves out they rarely went back down so she would lose her place. Living on social assistance is tough it isn't a smooth ride.
 
2013-01-26 12:00:15 PM

cptjeff:
Yes, self determination is a right. Spending your money as you wish is a right.

They're free to spend their money, then. But when somebody gives you money, they're also free to attach stipulations to how you spend their money.


Maybe the state should just stop giving people money. Skip the middle man and just give them the items that they should have.
 
2013-01-26 12:01:54 PM

cig-mkr: I live in NC and find it amusing that the state want's to shut down slot machines in stores, but will continue to allow them to sell lottery tickets. Got to keep a tight fist on gambling profits.


Exactly! I can only agree with you on this.
 
2013-01-26 12:04:02 PM

Phoenix_M: not everyone on welfare is black


Well, yeah. Not everyone. There are probably one or two that actually need help (i.e. white people).

But I'm sure it's 99% are black, at least!
 
2013-01-26 12:06:06 PM
I have no idea how they afford lotto tickets. I lost a well-paying job while in college (my 5th year) and I was an at-will employee so even with my 50 hours a week, no health care, no vacations, no paid time off and you could get fired for sick days. Because I was a bartender, unemployment was a little less than $400 every two weeks. The amount I got in food stamps was $180 per month. So on the high end, I got $980 a month. Take out rent, food, transportation, bills, I was tapped out, if not in the negative. I didn't have $2 for a breakfast burrito, let alone a lotto ticket.

I don't care whether or not other folks spend it on the lottery, but I have no idea how they do it.

/have a great job now
//subsidized my job loss with a low-paying weird job in my art department
 
2013-01-26 12:10:04 PM

ghare: leevis: Riche: I sometimes think GOP democratic politicians must lie awake almost every night staring at the ceiling, trying desperately to think up new ways to make life just a little more miserable for the poor take more money out of my paycheck and tell me it's for my own good because they care about me.

Both parties can go EABOD. I've learned how to use the write-in line on my ballot and walk out of the voting booth with a clear conscience.

Ahh, so, you're a nut. Good for you!


And you're naive.
 
2013-01-26 12:10:09 PM

Summer Glau's Love Slave: [i1125.photobucket.com image 634x524]
/So much bootstrappiness.


Good call. needs more trainwreck

lh5.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-01-26 12:10:44 PM
Poor people who have scratch off lottery addictions piss me off
 
2013-01-26 12:11:07 PM
This will result in approximately 0 fewer jackpots for the poor, averaged out.
 
2013-01-26 12:11:30 PM
I'm loving the statements about using public funds to buy lottery tickets. Mainly because it shows that the people commenting these types of things have never had to use a SNAP or TANF card.
 
2013-01-26 12:11:37 PM

Proteios1: Being a white male with middle class parents who make enough that I couldn't qualify for food stamps, yet not enough to support me or pay tuition for college, I admit I survived in part due to people on food stamps selling me $20-$50 worth of stamps for $5 or $10 bucks because then they could buy...whatever. It bums me out my role in these people's bad choices and on the other hand, I was able to eat most days and was not involved in crime. I guess this is more of a confession and insight than a witty put down of someone else.


you were involved in crime
 
2013-01-26 12:11:47 PM
What? And take away their retirement plan? Scoundrels.
 
2013-01-26 12:11:48 PM
The vast majority of states, including their neighbor Virginia, don't allow them to be used for anything but food; raw food at that. You would think that a Republican state would have already made it the same way but something tells me they INTENTIONALLY left it this way so they can say, "welfare queen boogiie oogie!"
 
2013-01-26 12:11:52 PM
And why on earth is this story slugged under LGBT News?
 
2013-01-26 12:12:14 PM

EvilEgg: You can only do so much to protect people from themselves.  Everyone has the right to be mindbogglingly stupid.  The state should not both sponsor and moralize against "sins"


So no state taxes on alcohol!
 
2013-01-26 12:13:13 PM

gblive: cig-mkr: I live in NC and find it amusing that the state want's to shut down slot machines in stores, but will continue to allow them to sell lottery tickets. Got to keep a tight fist on gambling profits.

Exactly! I can only agree with you on this.


Where I get my smokes there are four slots, and every one of them has a player on it and someone waiting to play.
Most of the folks look like they really could use the money for other things, like food for one.
I wonder why the state just doesn't tax the shait out of them, and let the suckers play?
 
2013-01-26 12:14:43 PM

Petit_Merdeux: Phoenix_M: not everyone on welfare is black

Well, yeah. Not everyone. There are probably one or two that actually need help (i.e. white people).

But I'm sure it's 99% are black, at least!


So let me get this straight: 13.6% of the people in the United States are black but 37.2% of the people on welfare are black.

Have you ever taken a statistics course that discussed populations sets, standard deviation, variance and sigma.
 
2013-01-26 12:17:08 PM

cig-mkr: gblive: cig-mkr: I live in NC and find it amusing that the state want's to shut down slot machines in stores, but will continue to allow them to sell lottery tickets. Got to keep a tight fist on gambling profits.

Exactly! I can only agree with you on this.

Where I get my smokes there are four slots, and every one of them has a player on it and someone waiting to play.
Most of the folks look like they really could use the money for other things, like food for one.
I wonder why the state just doesn't tax the shait out of them, and let the suckers play?


They already had a pretty steep state/local tax on each machine that tax revenue was coming from. I think the decision to ban these machines is a bad one for our state,
 
2013-01-26 12:17:58 PM
Wow, I'm sorry I entered this thread.

After reading some of your insightful comments I'm realizing that NC needs to abandon hope for the current generation. They should double down on the "education lottery" and have some small hope of teaching people that THROWING AWAY YOUR MONEY in the lottery is not a good thing.

All the people in this thread suggesting that "hope" and a "modicum of dignity"(really?!) are offered by the lottery should go back to school, or just grab a calculator and take a look at what the odds really are.

Gambling is a growing problem in this country and this thread perfectly captures why it is only going to get worse.

Sigh....
 
2013-01-26 12:18:04 PM

jack_sawyer75: I agree. Now add drug testing, and not allowing them to buy cigarettes, tattoos would make it all perfect.


Can we do the same to all the farmers who get crop subsidies?
 
2013-01-26 12:18:43 PM
Solution: get rid of the lottery.

Why the fark is the govt playing the business of running a numbers racket anyway?
 
2013-01-26 12:19:17 PM
the state gives poor people welfare money, poor people give that money back to the state via the lottery

I don't see the problem here
 
2013-01-26 12:19:34 PM
I live in North Carolina, and extra hurdles for people on welfare to purchase lottery tickets is a good idea (taking any winnings is a stupid one). No idea how they'll implement it, and chances are they won't. The bill won't pass in its present state.


Still, nothing will be done about all the farking internet "sweepstakes" places around, which is a far worse affliction.
 
2013-01-26 12:20:47 PM

Real Women Drink Akvavit: Let them play the stinkin' lottery. Ever since Clinton signed that welfare reform act back in the 90's, any cash aid is a loan anyway. You loan someone money and will garnish their wages when they do start working (or take their tax returns, etc) you really don't have much room to talk about how they spend that loan. If your state isn't collecting the money back when they do start working, that's not on the recipient, that's on the state.

How would a clerk even know if someone was on welfare or in bankruptcy anyway? Even my stupid butt knows how to use an ATM and I'm sure if I were on welfare I'd know how to get cash back from the market or use an ATM just as well. It's just a bunch of "you're filthy poors, now go away" legislation designed to make the self righteous feel even more self righteous.

Heh. For some odd reason, this reminds me of a story from some years back about abortion and birth control. Forget which state it was, but one of them wanted to make abortion illegal unless the preggers chick had used birth control and it had failed. How would they even prove if someone had used a condom or not? Hide a DA under every bed in the state? Man, sometimes I wonder about the lack of thought processes some people display. At least it makes me feel smarter than I really am, I guess.


TANIF is a loan? (temporary assistance to needy families) I don't think so and am not interested enough to check.

Mostly I despise the 'welfare' people I meet or know about, I feel bad for the little kids though.
 
2013-01-26 12:21:40 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: EvilEgg: You can only do so much to protect people from themselves.  Everyone has the right to be mindbogglingly stupid.  The state should not both sponsor and moralize against "sins"

So no state taxes on alcohol!


Yes, we have quite sizeable state taxes on alcohol plus all the hard liquor can only be sold legally in the state-owned ABC stores at inflated prices.

We also have the largest moonshing industry in the South, probably 1/3 of the hard liquor consumed in North Carolina is 'tax-free- from a still in the woods. Watch the show "Moonshiners" on the Discovery channel for details.
 
2013-01-26 12:23:46 PM

NameDot: Mostly I despise the 'welfare' people I meet or know about, I feel bad for the little kids though.


You despise them, huh? I tend to reserve words like "despise" for klansmen, rapists, white power types, and abortion doctor-shooters. Not really the same league as being on welfare.
 
2013-01-26 12:23:52 PM

Revek: EvilEgg: You can only do so much to protect people from themselves.  Everyone has the right to be mindbogglingly stupid.  The state should not both sponsor and moralize against "sins"

You can stop them from using public money to pay for their vice.


I don't support gambling. However, I think a better idea would be to let them purchase the tickets and if they win they have to apply the winnings to whatever equal whatever benefits they are recieving. Trying to regulate sin just isn't a good idea...it never stops at "one" thing.
 
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