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(Wisconsin Gazette)   North Carolina wants to bar the bankrupt and welfare recipients from buying lottery tickets. No jackpots for the poor   (wisconsingazette.com) divider line 300
    More: Interesting, North Carolina, welfare, bankruptcy, mess  
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5334 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jan 2013 at 10:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-26 10:56:51 AM

RichMeatyTaste: Oh, and I'll admit that I have no answers. When your teacher wife tells you that a third of her kids parents could care less about their kids schooling, let alone their mental or physical health, you start to lose faith in society.


My parents were both teachers and I have no faith whatsoever in society. I think you might be onto something.
 
2013-01-26 10:57:09 AM

IAMTHEINTARWEBS: MmmmBacon: Via Infinito: I can see them not accepting EBT to pay for the lottery tickets, but prohibiting welfare recipients from playing at all seems crappy.

It probably doesn't stop them from playing, but prevents them from winning. So when these desperate Welfare recipients buy a lottery ticket and lose, that's just more money in the system. But if they lose? "Sorry, you're on welfare, therefore you are not eligible for this prize". I doubt it would go back into the pool for the next week, though... Maybe their winnings will go to fund some "state project", instead?

See, If I ran the lottery, I'd make it so that the welfare winner would have to pay back all that they had taken out in welfare from their lottery winnings before they get to take any home. You know, kinda like they take out the welfare from my paycheck each week before I get to take my share home.

At least with the lottery I can choose to fund that system or not.


I guess I see your point, but welfare is funded by taxes and lottery winners are heavily taxed before they can take their winnings home.
 
2013-01-26 10:57:12 AM

way south: Howie Spankowitz: Demonize the poor.  Ignore the real problems that underlie poverty.  Lather.  Rinse.  Repeat.

One of the things that leads to poverty is a willing acceptance of it. People sink into bad habits rather than making the changes needed to get out of the slums and into a more productive way of life.

Welfare should be viewed as a leg up or a loan more than just another entitlement. Putting a few rules on these folks, so we get the most effect from the money, is not unreasonable.

/No drugs, no smoking, no drinking, no gambling, no whores, no frivolities.
/get your ass to job training, counseling, therapy or whatever it takes to straighten you out.
/want to play the lotto? Do it on your own dime or pay Uncle Sam the winnings.


WTF? Really? You think people are poor because they're not trying? If they all just got "straightened out" that somehow tens of millions of good jobs would suddenly materialize for them to take?

Of course, there are people who fail because they're messed up, but to imply that huge swaths of the population are poor because of bad habits is, frankly, disgusting.
 
2013-01-26 10:57:15 AM

Shae123: pearls before swine: Well we all know that poor people aren't really. . . people, so we should be able to take away their rights with impunity.

Playing the lottery is a right?


Probably so, commerce clause and such, or something. Receiving free money from the government isn't a right though, so you'd just have to address it from that end.
 
2013-01-26 10:57:21 AM

Phoenix_M: /not everyone on welfare is black


But do you see how often they presume that as they're trying to 'stick it to the mean Republicans?' I wonder what that says about their view of the world. Oh wait, I don't wonder at all. Exactly like their mouth-foaming on the immigration debate - "why do you hate Mexicans?"
 
2013-01-26 10:57:22 AM

Mugato: count_chimpula: The mush brained liberalism in this thread is at epic levels. Seriously you guys can find better targets to defend than people who waste government handouts on lottery tickets.

And you conservatives are all about less government except when it has to do with women and poor people. And don't talk to me about the poor wasting "your" precious tax dollars. You all have no problem with the obscene amount of money the gov't wastes on defense spending and various subsidies on oil, corn and everything else. None of you said anything about corporate bailouts when Bush was doing it either. So knock it off with the self righteous indignation about a few people on welfare buying a lottery ticket breaking the bank, no one's buying it.


People that spend more than $2 on the lottery a week, these are the real terrorists!
 
2013-01-26 10:57:25 AM

Lucky LaRue: dickfreckle:  Ah, dog-whislting at it's finest. Well, perhaps more along the lines of bullhorn. Are they allowed to have cheap internet to communicate assess the modern job market, or will that be deemed wasteful as well? A refrigerator? Or do those count as items welfare or SNAP recipients could be using to build the first prototype flying car that will lift them from this misery?

 Is poor Sally, who received a ton of grants for college despite there being no guarantee of it helping her also have such restrictions imposed? "Just look at her. Just look at her eating that pizza with MY tax dollarstm.Why isn't she eating Ramen for the 42nd time in a row?" Will we hear that? Of course not.

 This is old-fashioned grandstanding, designed only to light a fire under some rednceks' asses as they see a true Freedom Fighter Rallying for truth.

"Oh sh*t, Bubba, ain't we on food stamps?"

You call it "grandstanding", and maybe it is.. I don't know this guy's motives, but I am willing to bet neither do you. Maybe he is looking for solutions to what is, without argument (IMO) a waste of taxpayer dollars. At the very least, assuming he is the hate-mongerer you would have him be, then he is communicating with civility and tact. It's a page you may want to steal from his book.


Your opinion is wrong.
 
2013-01-26 10:57:52 AM

GilRuiz1: You're not the problem. It's this guy:


If "heavy" saved and invested that money he could retire at 40. He'd be dead at 45 from complications of type II diabetes but it would be a nice 5 years.
 
2013-01-26 10:58:46 AM

Feral_and_Preposterous: Proteios1: Being a white male with middle class parents who make enough that I couldn't qualify for food stamps, yet not enough to support me or pay tuition for college, I admit I survived in part due to people on food stamps selling me $20-$50 worth of stamps for $5 or $10 bucks because then they could buy...whatever. It bums me out my role in these people's bad choices and on the other hand, I was able to eat most days and was not involved in crime. I guess this is more of a confession and insight than a witty put down of someone else.

You WERE involved with crime.


yes, he was. but he's white and male and the crime was victimless so........ doesn't count.
 
2013-01-26 11:00:19 AM

Mister Peejay: EvilEgg: You can only do so much to protect people from themselves.  Everyone has the right to be mindbogglingly stupid.  The state should not both sponsor and moralize against "sins"

It's not really moralizing so much as people shouldn't be pissing away state funds. Granted, the money does go right back TO the state, but it's quite inefficient.


There are way better examples of this than a couple of bucks spent by a "welfare queen". When you justify your bias by concentrating on one (contentious) examples, while ignoring all the myriad examples around you, then it IS moralizing.
 
2013-01-26 11:00:29 AM

Greek: Surprisingly, the dude sponsoring this legislation isn't being a dick about it. He seems to be more anti- gambling than anything. He wants to remove the word "education" from "N.C. Education lottery," and refers to the lottery as a "scam," as well. He also frames his proposal along the lines of "the State taking away the assistance it gives to those who have fallen on hard times" as opposed to using the "lazy welfare queen" line. I, for one, am impressed. Granted, he could be moderating his language intentionally, but this is North Carolina. I don't think that using the harsher language would necessarily be seen as a bad thing. Combined with his anti- lottery statements, I think he's just trying to reduce problem gambling. (one of the symptoms of gambling addiction is gambling when you don't really have the money for it.)


He's crazy like a fox, yes. But there are some unintended consequences to this, even though his real goal is noble. The fall out won't be worth it, for those least able to deal with the fall out.
 
2013-01-26 11:01:04 AM
Jesus, just leave poor people alone. Why do you care how they spend their money?
 
2013-01-26 11:02:07 AM

Ms.Gradenko: cptjeff: dickfreckle: Ah, dog-whislting at it's finest. Well, perhaps more along the lines of bullhorn. Are they allowed to have cheap internet to communicate assess the modern job market, or will that be deemed wasteful as well? A refrigerator? Or do those count as items welfare or SNAP recipients could be using to build the first prototype flying car that will lift them from this misery?

A lottery ticket offers exactly no utility. It's not ramen vs a deli sandwich. Buying a lottery ticket is buying a piece of paper not even useful for wiping your ass, and a lot of poor people do buy them in the hopes that they'll strike it rich, and lotteries market to that hope. They make a lot of money marketing to the despair of the poor, and the poor lose a lot of money with misbegotten hope in a system where they're pretty much guaranteed to lose money. Hell, you could even call this consumer protection.

Every time I buy a $2 lottery ticket, I am certain that it's my winning ticket. For the next five days I imagine all the things I would do with my money, despite the fact that I know that I probably won't win, there is a tiny chance and that's all I need. There aren't a lot of places where I get that much excitement (even with the incredible odds) for $2. Are we really willing to wring out every bit of hope and optimism from people for such a small amount of money?


That's not how poor people are buying these things. They're going down the line with 10, 20 tickets, scratching them in store, cursing when they inevitably lose, and walking out. It's not about fun- it's not entertainment, it's a desperate waste of money in the hopes of striking it rich.

I'm not against playing the lottery. What you're doing is fine, but I'm presuming you have some disposable cash and know that you have absolutely no chance of actually striking it rich. It's fantasy, and you know that, not a realistic route to getting rich. A lot of poor people treat it as if it is a realistic route to getting rich.

As for wringing out hope and whatever other crap, we already govern stuff like food stamp money in a lot of ways. Can't spend it on alcohol, for instance. The same argument could apply, but most everybody seems to be okay with that. We're giving people money for basic necessity. If they save a little money on the side, I'm perfectly fine with them spending their hard earned cash on whatever they like. But I'd really prefer that they not throw the money they get from taxpayers in the garbage, for both their good and for collective society's vis a vis the government's budget.
 
2013-01-26 11:03:10 AM

doczoidberg: Feral_and_Preposterous: Sounds good to me. If you have money to gamble you should not be taking money from the state. If you're bankrupt and have money to gamble you should spend it paying your freaking debts.

If someone is thousands in debt, the few dollars they spend on lotto tickets Isn't going to help them.

The creditors aren't even interested in it. They want EVERYTHING NOW.


It's the principle of the thing. If you owe so much money you can't afford to pay your bills you don't need to be BURNING MONEY. If you're bankrupt YOU DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY. (I know, you might.) This is why we are in such a hole economically. You out of money? THEN STOP BLOWING MORE OF IT ON STUPID CRAP!

I'm in a situation where my employer owes me more than five grand. I might not have a job next month from the looks of things. I have stopped going out, eating out, buying coffee at the coffee shop, and I'm damn sure not going to waste money on Lotto.
 
2013-01-26 11:03:31 AM
Let them play the stinkin' lottery. Ever since Clinton signed that welfare reform act back in the 90's, any cash aid is a loan anyway. You loan someone money and will garnish their wages when they do start working (or take their tax returns, etc) you really don't have much room to talk about how they spend that loan. If your state isn't collecting the money back when they do start working, that's not on the recipient, that's on the state.

How would a clerk even know if someone was on welfare or in bankruptcy anyway? Even my stupid butt knows how to use an ATM and I'm sure if I were on welfare I'd know how to get cash back from the market or use an ATM just as well. It's just a bunch of "you're filthy poors, now go away" legislation designed to make the self righteous feel even more self righteous.

Heh. For some odd reason, this reminds me of a story from some years back about abortion and birth control. Forget which state it was, but one of them wanted to make abortion illegal unless the preggers chick had used birth control and it had failed. How would they even prove if someone had used a condom or not? Hide a DA under every bed in the state? Man, sometimes I wonder about the lack of thought processes some people display. At least it makes me feel smarter than I really am, I guess.
 
2013-01-26 11:03:37 AM

Animatronik: People on the dole should know it.
If you are on welfare you should be trying to get off welfare. People on welfare are like the kid who got held back 2 grades in school. That's how other people look at you if you are able-bodied.


If you're able-bodied, pretty much any "dole" you could qualify to receive, would require that you've been employed recently.
 
2013-01-26 11:05:19 AM

Shae123: pearls before swine: Well we all know that poor people aren't really. . . people, so we should be able to take away their rights with impunity.

Playing the lottery is a right?


Yes, self determination is a right. Spending your money as you wish is a right.
 
2013-01-26 11:06:27 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Feral_and_Preposterous: Proteios1: Being a white male with middle class parents who make enough that I couldn't qualify for food stamps, yet not enough to support me or pay tuition for college, I admit I survived in part due to people on food stamps selling me $20-$50 worth of stamps for $5 or $10 bucks because then they could buy...whatever. It bums me out my role in these people's bad choices and on the other hand, I was able to eat most days and was not involved in crime. I guess this is more of a confession and insight than a witty put down of someone else.

You WERE involved with crime.

yes, he was. but he's white and male and the crime was victimless so........ doesn't count.


Oh yeah, heh, missed that part. My bad...
 
2013-01-26 11:06:40 AM

Mugato: So knock it off with the self righteous indignation about a few people on welfare buying a lottery ticket breaking the bank, no one's buying it.


Maybe you live in a state with limited gambling, but in Oregon we have video poker/slots in almost every bar in town. I've watched co-workers, dates, neighbors, and random strangers put hundreds of dollars in a night into them. This includes people on SSDI, living in S8 housing, using food stamps, etc. When I worked at a gas station in Western NY I had customers who were using food stamps to pay for food spend $40/day on lottery tickets.

Just because you personally haven't seen people who can't afford to waste massive amounts of money on state-sponsored gambling doesn't mean it isn't happening. I dated a girl whose parents bought her things like her PS3, her laptop, her 52" TV, etc, but relied on food stamps and S8 to cover shelter and nutrition. The final straw was when I found out she was selling her EBT card with $40-50 on it to put it into video poker.

I'm sure nobody commits fraud in your sheltered life, but it does happen.
 
2013-01-26 11:06:46 AM

Lucky LaRue: Maybe he is looking for solutions to what is, without argument (IMO) a waste of taxpayer dollars.


They don't get reimbursed for the ticket by some other government agency. Where's the waste? It's not like they mail the dollar back if they don't spend it on lottery tickets.

Besides, lottery money goes back to the state anyway. Even the store where they buy it is taxed on the profits.

Lastly, how much money could we possibly be talking about here? A couple hundred thou a week? Not even worth getting worked up about.

In short: grandstanding.
 
2013-01-26 11:08:29 AM

pearls before swine: Shae123: pearls before swine: Well we all know that poor people aren't really. . . people, so we should be able to take away their rights with impunity.

Playing the lottery is a right?

Yes, self determination is a right. Spending your money as you wish is a right.


They're free to spend their money, then. But when somebody gives you money, they're also free to attach stipulations to how you spend their money.

If you want to scrape together money from your couch cushions and buy a lottery ticket, feel free. Want to use your food stamps? Yeah, the people paying for those food stamps are gonna have a problem with it.
 
2013-01-26 11:09:01 AM

DrewCurtisJr: GilRuiz1: You're not the problem. It's this guy:

If "heavy" saved and invested that money he could retire at 40. He'd be dead at 45 from complications of type II diabetes but it would be a nice 5 years.


$30 * 7 days = $210 a week
$210 week * 4 weeks = $840 a month

Invest $840 monthly for the next 30 years at 6% = $848,011.60
 
2013-01-26 11:09:14 AM

cptjeff: As for wringing out hope and whatever other crap, we already govern stuff like food stamp money in a lot of ways. Can't spend it on alcohol, for instance.


Interesting detail I learned recently: In Oregon if you're over 65 and qualify for food stamps you can get beer with them, but only at stores licensed to sell it to go. You can't go to a bar, but you can get a 6 pack at 7/11 with food stamps. Weird, right?
 
2013-01-26 11:11:20 AM

davidphogan: cptjeff: As for wringing out hope and whatever other crap, we already govern stuff like food stamp money in a lot of ways. Can't spend it on alcohol, for instance.

Interesting detail I learned recently: In Oregon if you're over 65 and qualify for food stamps you can get beer with them, but only at stores licensed to sell it to go. You can't go to a bar, but you can get a 6 pack at 7/11 with food stamps. Weird, right?


Not really. Beer in a bottle is a hell of a lot cheaper than beer at a bar. Not to mention that going to a bar is entertainment, beer in a bottle is grocery.
 
2013-01-26 11:11:31 AM

cptjeff: A lottery ticket offers exactly no utility.


Worse than that, they are a tax on people that are bad at math. Now if it is someone who has money, who plays it just for fun, ok fine, no big deal. Waste of money but then we all waste money on things. The problem is that when people are in a bad financial situation, they don't buy them for fun, they buy them because they really believe it is a way out. Well, it isn't. Your odd suck, if they didn't suck it wouldn't be sustainable.

Also the less you have, the more of a problem it is to waste what you do. People talk about it being expensive to be poor because of fees, but they hit precisely because of shiat like this. Someone will have very little in their bank account, say $20 but decide to blow it on lottery tickets. They'll reason that they are bound to win at least something so it'll be ok. They don't, and then get nailed with an overdraft fee and a bounced check. Now suddenly they went from $20 to -$50 or more because they made a really bad choice.

Gambling really is something that only people with money can afford to do. If you are poor, you want to protect what little you have, not give it to someone else to get nothing in return.
 
2013-01-26 11:13:47 AM
It would make more sense to bar them from buying cigarettes: it's a useless expenditure AND endangers their health, making it more expensive for the state to care for them.
 
2013-01-26 11:13:49 AM

mccallcl: Lastly, how much money could we possibly be talking about here? A couple hundred thou a week? Not even worth getting worked up about.


Oregon, which has 3.9 million people has a state lottery system sold over $700 million in fiscal year 2011. Not all those 3.9 million people are old enough to play, and not all choose to either. Yet they made $700 million.

I think you have no idea how much some people gamble.
 
2013-01-26 11:14:31 AM

cptjeff: davidphogan: cptjeff: As for wringing out hope and whatever other crap, we already govern stuff like food stamp money in a lot of ways. Can't spend it on alcohol, for instance.

Interesting detail I learned recently: In Oregon if you're over 65 and qualify for food stamps you can get beer with them, but only at stores licensed to sell it to go. You can't go to a bar, but you can get a 6 pack at 7/11 with food stamps. Weird, right?

Not really. Beer in a bottle is a hell of a lot cheaper than beer at a bar. Not to mention that going to a bar is entertainment, beer in a bottle is grocery.


I just thought it was strange that it's okay for seniors, but not for anyone else.
 
2013-01-26 11:14:31 AM

cptjeff: pearls before swine: Shae123: pearls before swine: Well we all know that poor people aren't really. . . people, so we should be able to take away their rights with impunity.

Playing the lottery is a right?

Yes, self determination is a right. Spending your money as you wish is a right.

They're free to spend their money, then. But when somebody gives you money, they're also free to attach stipulations to how you spend their money.

If you want to scrape together money from your couch cushions and buy a lottery ticket, feel free. Want to use your food stamps? Yeah, the people paying for those food stamps are gonna have a problem with it.


And here lies the problem with most people's opinion on the subject. IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY. It is money that you paid as taxes, but at this point the only claim you have over it is as one of many constituents of one of many representatives. To claim that these people are spending "My Money" is ridiculous.
 
2013-01-26 11:14:33 AM

MmmmBacon: Via Infinito: MmmmBacon: Via Infinito: I can see them not accepting EBT to pay for the lottery tickets, but prohibiting welfare recipients from playing at all seems crappy.

It probably doesn't stop them from playing, but prevents them from winning. So when these desperate Welfare recipients buy a lottery ticket and lose, that's just more money in the system. But if they lose? "Sorry, you're on welfare, therefore you are not eligible for this prize". I doubt it would go back into the pool for the next week, though... Maybe their winnings will go to fund some "state project", instead?

But that's even crappier, isn't it? Letting them spending that dollar they found under the cushions on a lottery ticket, but not letting them have the prize when they win? I don't think lottery winners should be allowed to STAY on welfare when they win, but making people ineligible for the prize because they've been dealt a seriously shiatty hand at life just seems incredibly mean-spirited. I'm not sure what kind of point they're trying to make here.

They are saying that the mythic "Welfare Queen" (which doesn't really exist, other than in the minds of the GOP) shouldn't get to spend her ill-gotten stipend on a chance at getting rich like they are. She and her 12 illegitimate children might lower the values of the GOP's mansions, should WQ move into their neighborhood.

It is racism and classism, with a hint of "playing to the zealots in our base".


25 years ago I worked at a store that sold lottery. There were a number of regulars who bought food with food stamps but spent $50 a day on lottery tickets 6 days a week. The odds, payouts, and probability dictate that these people would lose about $8,000 a year to the state. At the time the cut off to recieve food stamps was $16,000 income. These people were losing at a minimum half their income to the state lottery.

When I was about 10, my grand mother would give me a dollar every day. I had to take this dollar to "uncle Tommie" down at the corner bar and say "364 straight" he would give me a paper that I would take back to her. Every once in a while she would give me the paper to take back to him, and he would give me $800. Uncle Tommie I found out later worked for the local mafia.

My point is this. The casino industry makes billions with a less than 2% advantage in odds. The mafia is happy with a 20% advantage. The state payout is at most, 50% of the odds. It is really sad that the government screws people over far worse than either private industry or organized crime, especially since most of the money comes from the poor, at least in my experience.
 
2013-01-26 11:15:10 AM
 
2013-01-26 11:15:27 AM

cptjeff: If you want to scrape together money from your couch cushions and buy a lottery ticket, feel free. Want to use your food stamps? Yeah, the people paying for those food stamps are gonna have a problem with it.


You can't buy lottery tickets with foodstamps.
 
2013-01-26 11:15:49 AM

Feral_and_Preposterous: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Feral_and_Preposterous: Proteios1: Being a white male with middle class parents who make enough that I couldn't qualify for food stamps, yet not enough to support me or pay tuition for college, I admit I survived in part due to people on food stamps selling me $20-$50 worth of stamps for $5 or $10 bucks because then they could buy...whatever. It bums me out my role in these people's bad choices and on the other hand, I was able to eat most days and was not involved in crime. I guess this is more of a confession and insight than a witty put down of someone else.

You WERE involved with crime.

yes, he was. but he's white and male and the crime was victimless so........ doesn't count.

Oh yeah, heh, missed that part. My bad...


I don't think he even meant anything ill by what he was saying. He just didn't realize the full impact of what he said. Which is a nice part of the basic invisible knapsack package.

/no harm, no foul because he's not intentionally trying to be a dick on this one
//but now he knows, and knows better, and that's a win win
///hopefully
 
2013-01-26 11:16:16 AM

Mugato: count_chimpula: The mush brained liberalism in this thread is at epic levels. Seriously you guys can find better targets to defend than people who waste government handouts on lottery tickets.

And you conservatives are all about less government except when it has to do with women and poor people. And don't talk to me about the poor wasting "your" precious tax dollars. You all have no problem with the obscene amount of money the gov't wastes on defense spending and various subsidies on oil, corn and everything else. None of you said anything about corporate bailouts when Bush was doing it either. So knock it off with the self righteous indignation about a few people on welfare buying a lottery ticket breaking the bank, no one's buying it.


How do you know what "I" have a problem with? Oh right, you're just projecting your own biases and bigotry onto other people..Must be great to be able to construct a straw man every time you try to defend indefensible behavior,

Thanks for proving my point.
 
2013-01-26 11:16:27 AM

Omnivorous: It would make more sense to bar them from buying cigarettes: it's a useless expenditure AND endangers their health, making it more expensive for the state to care for them.


Sounds good to me. Probably doesn't sound so good to the massive tobacco lobby in NC- despite efforts to transition farmers to new crops, NC still grows a shiatload of tobacco.
 
2013-01-26 11:16:38 AM

EvilEgg: You can only do so much to protect people from themselves.  Everyone has the right to be mindbogglingly stupid.  The state should not both sponsor and moralize against "sins"


You mean, like subsidizing tobacco growers, and at the same time telling everyone how evil tobacco is?

/amidoingitright?
 
2013-01-26 11:17:19 AM

davidphogan: I'm sure nobody commits fraud in your sheltered life, but it does happen.


If you had read more than the last sentence in my post you'd see that I'm not arguing that people don't spend money they don't have on gambling. I was referring to people's disproportionate concern with a few welfare recipients spending their money in less than judicious ways when the government spends a shiatton more money on things like corporate welfare, wasteful defense spending, subsidies and so on. And the typical response to that is, "Well we're mad about that too", except they're not nearly as loud about it.

Cute little dig about my "sheltered life", nice touch. No, I'm not exposed to the horrors of the war torn public school system. I hope you all don't have PTSD.
 
2013-01-26 11:18:29 AM

The Irresponsible Captain: Some states are trying to encourage this - and get their buddies rich in the process.
/Rob the poor to feed the rich!


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-01-26 11:19:22 AM

Mugato: No, I'm not exposed to the horrors of the war torn public school system. I hope you all don't have PTSD.


Oh you weren't the school teacher one. Scratch that last sentence.
 
2013-01-26 11:22:10 AM

pearls before swine: Shae123: pearls before swine: Well we all know that poor people aren't really. . . people, so we should be able to take away their rights with impunity.

Playing the lottery is a right?

Yes, self determination is a right. Spending your money as you wish is a right.


I'm printing that out and sending it to the IRS this year instead of a check.
 
2013-01-26 11:22:26 AM

kid_icarus: Wouldn't this eliminate just about all of the lottery playing crowd?


No shiat. I live in one of the top ten most affluent counties in the country, and the only time I've ever seen someone who looked middle-class or affluent buying a lottery ticket was when the jackpot gets so outrageously huge that it's publicized all of the news. Otherwise, never.

So, yeah, good luck when all of that revenue dries up.
 
2013-01-26 11:22:39 AM

count_chimpula: How do you know what "I" have a problem with? Oh right, you're just projecting your own biases and bigotry onto other people..Must be great to be able to construct a straw man every time you try to defend indefensible behavior,

Thanks for proving my point.


I was basing that assumption on every single conservative I've ever spoken to, which are a lot. So you tell me. Are you as loud about other wasteful government spending as you are all these people living the high life on food stamps?
 
2013-01-26 11:24:13 AM

Mugato: davidphogan: I'm sure nobody commits fraud in your sheltered life, but it does happen.

If you had read more than the last sentence in my post you'd see that I'm not arguing that people don't spend money they don't have on gambling. I was referring to people's disproportionate concern with a few welfare recipients spending their money in less than judicious ways when the government spends a shiatton more money on things like corporate welfare, wasteful defense spending, subsidies and so on. And the typical response to that is, "Well we're mad about that too", except they're not nearly as loud about it.

Cute little dig about my "sheltered life", nice touch. No, I'm not exposed to the horrors of the war torn public school system. I hope you all don't have PTSD.


Maybe it helps that I'm not very conservative, but I'm just sick of people defending waste because it's not as bad as some other kind of waste. How about we get all of it under control, or at least admit that our state lotteries might be a great way to fund parks and schools and stuff, but might have negative consequences that we all pay for in some way?
 
2013-01-26 11:24:48 AM

impaler: cptjeff: If you want to scrape together money from your couch cushions and buy a lottery ticket, feel free. Want to use your food stamps? Yeah, the people paying for those food stamps are gonna have a problem with it.

You can't buy lottery tickets with foodstamps.


And the exact same logic applies here.

machodonkeywrestler: And here lies the problem with most people's opinion on the subject. IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY. It is money that you paid as taxes, but at this point the only claim you have over it is as one of many constituents of one of many representatives. To claim that these people are spending "My Money" is ridiculous.


It's the government's money. The government represents me, and acts on my behalf. The government is perfectly within its rights to insist that that money be used in certain ways, and they do that on behalf of the wider society, myself included.

The trouble arises when you insist that it's you, as an individual, have the right to dictate to the collective. When I say it's my money, I'm speaking as part of a collective. When the people you're thinking of insist that it's their money (and I do know the type), they're speaking as individuals.
 
2013-01-26 11:26:32 AM

Huggermugger: kid_icarus: Wouldn't this eliminate just about all of the lottery playing crowd?

No shiat. I live in one of the top ten most affluent counties in the country, and the only time I've ever seen someone who looked middle-class or affluent buying a lottery ticket was when the jackpot gets so outrageously huge that it's publicized all of the news. Otherwise, never.



My parents bought a few for myself and each of my siblings as a gift for going off to college.
 
2013-01-26 11:26:52 AM

HK-MP5-SD: When I was about 10, my grand mother would give me a dollar every day. I had to take this dollar to "uncle Tommie" down at the corner bar and say "364 straight" he would give me a paper that I would take back to her. Every once in a while she would give me the paper to take back to him, and he would give me $800. Uncle Tommie I found out later worked for the local mafia.


My grandparents never pulled that crap on us. The numbers dude (who was about my grandparents' age) would go door to door in the Old Neighborhood, though, to collect slip info. The Numbers at your doorstep, great service.

I'd never trust younger cats with a job like that, but a respected middle aged/older dude? sure. Between Bingo at the Catholic church basement/rec room, and the Numbers, who needed state lotteries?

I feel you on the State taking a deeper cut and not paying out to the players as much as the 'illegal' games. You say, in your 10th year, your grandmother would occasionally get $800 back? How often does that happen in these days, in a single year, that someone would get that much money back that often... and it being in those times, tack on the inflation value of the money.
 
2013-01-26 11:29:56 AM

IAMTHEINTARWEBS: o that the welfare winner would have to pay back all that they had taken out in welfare from their lottery winnings before they get to take any home.


New york already does this.
 
2013-01-26 11:30:32 AM

PanicMan: Jesus, just leave poor people alone. Why do you care how they spend their money?


Groups like the GOP and ALEC know that issues like this are guaranteed ratings gold. They rile up the rubes and distract them from real issues that can be handled in plain sight while the trailer park trash is screaming at Fox News. There's nothing better than creating racist images: the Welfare Queen is just too played out, but portraying some grizzled old black man who bought a winning lotto ticket is as good as convincing 18th century Transylvanians that the little dead blond girl was killed by a vampire.
 
2013-01-26 11:31:53 AM

The Irresponsible Captain: Some states are trying to encourage this - and get their buddies rich in the process.
/Rob the poor to feed the rich!


Always been that way, always will.

/otherwise you have no "rich"
 
2013-01-26 11:33:04 AM

ghare: Revek: EvilEgg: You can only do so much to protect people from themselves.  Everyone has the right to be mindbogglingly stupid.  The state should not both sponsor and moralize against "sins"

You can stop them from using public money to pay for their vice.

What vice? A state-sponsored method of funding education is a vice?


As noted in the article very little of the money goes to fund education. The lottery money in North Carolina was supposed to be a supplement to the state level educational funding; instead the politicans simply reduce the general fund allotment each year by the amount of the lottery funds so there is no overall increase of educational funding in North Carolina due to the lottery.
 
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