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(KPTV Portland)   The legal battle over overweight wienerdog Obie has ended. He gets to stay with the woman helping him lose weight   (kptv.com) divider line 55
    More: Followup, KPTV, rescue groups, overweight, Washington County, Nora Vanatta, foster homes  
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6039 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jan 2013 at 10:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-26 08:54:48 AM
fark yeah!
 
2013-01-26 09:12:11 AM
static1.fjcdn.com
 
2013-01-26 09:24:01 AM
Marv and Dexter would like to pass along their congratulations

i781.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-26 11:01:46 AM
Isn't this person also a Farker?
 
2013-01-26 11:03:21 AM

LockeOak: [static1.fjcdn.com image 349x356]


Came to say this. Thank you good sir.
 
2013-01-26 11:06:58 AM
Amazing. It brings a tear to my eye seeing life falling on the right side of things. It doesn't happen as often as it should, but at least it happened for Obie.
 
2013-01-26 11:07:27 AM
I don't get it. Why is this a custody battle? It's not explained in the 'article'. The article just says a settlement was reached, without explaining why there was a legal battle in the first place.

As for the other article: "Vanatta said the former owners, an elderly couple from Marysville, WA, couldn't care for the dog properly. A family member of the couple contacted to dog rescue group for help."

That's nice that she's a foster mom to this dog who was obviously loved by the original elderly couple, but taking the dog away from the people who loved him because they were unintentionally cruel instead of serial killer cruel is kind of lame.

Does the original elderly couple get visitation rights with their baby doxie, in this settlement? Why did Vanatta have to fight the Oregon Dachshund Rescue, who took in the dog after the elderly couple's family asked them to, in the first place?
 
2013-01-26 11:08:29 AM
HOT OFF THE PRESS
 
2013-01-26 11:08:49 AM
Dealt with one of these supposedly-not-for-profit rescue groups once, never again. The Humane Society is the way to go.
 
2013-01-26 11:10:53 AM
Nevermind, here is the other link:

"The attorney alleges Vanatta has not provided Obie with the manner of veterinary care promised and required. Instead, the rescue organization claims the woman has been "exploiting him for the sensationalistic promotional value of his unusual obesity, earning money off his public exhibition on national and regional television shows."


.... oh. So was they upset because she was getting famous off the dog, or were they upset they hadn't thought to exploit the dog before she did? I wonder which interview/request for donations from Vanatta set off the rescue, first?
 
2013-01-26 11:11:05 AM
FYI, if you live in the Portland area and want to meet Obie, he'll be at the Lucky Labrador Brewery on SE Hawthorne around 3pm, today.
 
2013-01-26 11:18:02 AM

Sgt Otter: FYI, if you live in the Portland area and want to meet Obie, he'll be at the Lucky Labrador Brewery on SE Hawthorne around 3pm, today.


I'm guessing only light beer for Obie?
 
2013-01-26 11:21:16 AM

Sgt Otter: FYI, if you live in the Portland area and want to meet Obie, he'll be at the Lucky Labrador Brewery on SE Hawthorne around 3pm, today.


That's mighty open-minded of the Labradors.
 
2013-01-26 11:22:48 AM
Good.
 
2013-01-26 11:26:08 AM
I hear that the thickness of your wiener is more important than it's length.
 
2013-01-26 11:27:15 AM

diaphoresis: Good.


Good.
 
2013-01-26 11:27:40 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: .... oh. So was they upset because she was getting famous off the dog, or were they upset they hadn't thought to exploit the dog before she did? I wonder which interview/request for donations from Vanatta set off the rescue, first?


That was my thought as well.....they saw the dollar signs and bamm...wanted the bucks for themselves.
 
2013-01-26 11:29:52 AM

Sgt Otter: FYI, if you live in the Portland area and want to meet Obie, he'll be at the Lucky Labrador Brewery on SE Hawthorne around 3pm, today.


Where's his real family?
 
2013-01-26 11:32:17 AM

BizarreMan: ExperianScaresCthulhu: .... oh. So was they upset because she was getting famous off the dog, or were they upset they hadn't thought to exploit the dog before she did? I wonder which interview/request for donations from Vanatta set off the rescue, first?

That was my thought as well.....they saw the dollar signs and bamm...wanted the bucks for themselves.


don't quote me, I'm just remembering from a former thread, but I don't think she's ever asked for money or donations.
 
2013-01-26 11:37:14 AM

al's hat: Sgt Otter: FYI, if you live in the Portland area and want to meet Obie, he'll be at the Lucky Labrador Brewery on SE Hawthorne around 3pm, today.

I'm guessing only light beer for Obie?


img.photobucket.com

I'm not sure if there is a Dawg Grog Lite.

/It's non-alcoholic.
 
Skr
2013-01-26 11:44:10 AM
upload.wikimedia.org
I'll crack open one of these to the pup's continued road to good health
 
2013-01-26 11:44:13 AM

BizarreMan: ExperianScaresCthulhu: .... oh. So was they upset because she was getting famous off the dog, or were they upset they hadn't thought to exploit the dog before she did? I wonder which interview/request for donations from Vanatta set off the rescue, first?

That was my thought as well.....they saw the dollar signs and bamm...wanted the bucks for themselves.


It possible but given that she was a foster, meaning that the shelter probably uses its limited funds to pay for Obie's food and care, they may also have been miffed to find out she had set up a Paypal account and was collecting donations on his behalf herself instead of collaborating with the shelter. Probably could have been handled better on all sides.


ExperianScaresCthulhu: I don't get it. Why is this a custody battle? It's not explained in the 'article'. The article just says a settlement was reached, without explaining why there was a legal battle in the first place.

As for the other article: "Vanatta said the former owners, an elderly couple from Marysville, WA, couldn't care for the dog properly. A family member of the couple contacted to dog rescue group for help."

That's nice that she's a foster mom to this dog who was obviously loved by the original elderly couple, but taking the dog away from the people who loved him because they were unintentionally cruel instead of serial killer cruel is kind of lame.


The sort of people who let a dachshund get to 79 pounds (over 4 times the weight he should be) may love the dog, but they are likely too mentally unstable to continue to own a pet. He needed to be taken away from them. The shelter just wanted to get him into a healthier environment.

The reason it is a custody battle is because the shelter technically owns Obie and demanded he be given back, but the foster mother wanted to keep him.
 
2013-01-26 11:49:03 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-26 11:54:22 AM

david_gaithersburg: Dealt with one of these supposedly-not-for-profit rescue groups once, never again. The Humane Society is the way to go.


Some are OK but like this one, some are assholes, they saw the money the dog was bringing in and were pissed they lost cash.....

I know our two cats were traumatized by who we adopted them from and it pisses me off.
 
2013-01-26 11:54:58 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com

The cat is not pleased.
 
2013-01-26 11:57:26 AM
Well, I guess it wouldn't hurt Officer Obie to lose a few pounds.
4.bp.blogspot.com
/shovels, rakes and implements of destruction
 
2013-01-26 11:58:55 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: taking the dog away from the people who loved him because they were unintentionally cruel


People who cause obesity in those they "care for" should not be trusted in that role.

Your dog is your responsibility, your privilege, your friend.

// They take care of you, take care of them
 
2013-01-26 12:01:33 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Nevermind, here is the other link:

"The attorney alleges Vanatta has not provided Obie with the manner of veterinary care promised and required. Instead, the rescue organization claims the woman has been "exploiting him for the sensationalistic promotional value of his unusual obesity, earning money off his public exhibition on national and regional television shows."


.... oh. So was they upset because she was getting famous off the dog, or were they upset they hadn't thought to exploit the dog before she did? I wonder which interview/request for donations from Vanatta set off the rescue, first?


From my understanding they were pissed she threw an overweight obese dog on a plane to New York to do TV when they all offered to fly out to Washington to interview her at home instead
 
2013-01-26 12:05:57 PM

tiamet4: BizarreMan: ExperianScaresCthulhu: .... oh. So was they upset because she was getting famous off the dog, or were they upset they hadn't thought to exploit the dog before she did? I wonder which interview/request for donations from Vanatta set off the rescue, first?

The sort of people who let a dachshund get to 79 pounds (over 4 times the weight he should be) may love the dog, but they are likely too mentally unstable to continue to own a pet. He needed to be taken away from them. The shelter just wanted to get him into a healthier environment.

.

Not to get all nitpicky, but it's slight over three times the expected weight. I agree with everything else.
 
2013-01-26 12:08:32 PM
i781.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-26 12:08:52 PM
The idea behind the suit was stupid. Even if she was using the dog for fame and money, who cares? She's taking good care of the dog and making sure it's healthy and happy.
 
2013-01-26 12:15:49 PM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: tiamet4: BizarreMan: ExperianScaresCthulhu: .... oh. So was they upset because she was getting famous off the dog, or were they upset they hadn't thought to exploit the dog before she did? I wonder which interview/request for donations from Vanatta set off the rescue, first?

The sort of people who let a dachshund get to 79 pounds (over 4 times the weight he should be) may love the dog, but they are likely too mentally unstable to continue to own a pet. He needed to be taken away from them. The shelter just wanted to get him into a healthier environment.

.
Not to get all nitpicky, but it's slight over three times the expected weight. I agree with everything else.


Most dachshunds I see around under or around 20 pounds at their ideal weight. The breed standard on the AKC website says the acceptable weight is 16-32 pounds but 32 pounds is a pretty big weener dog. I was assuming his healthy weight was on the lower end.
 
2013-01-26 12:15:50 PM

tiamet4: It possible but given that she was a foster, meaning that the shelter probably uses its limited funds to pay for Obie's food and care, they may also have been miffed to find out she had set up a Paypal account and was collecting donations on his behalf herself instead of collaborating with the shelter. Probably could have been handled better on all sides.


styckx: From my understanding they were pissed she threw an overweight obese dog on a plane to New York to do TV when they all offered to fly out to Washington to interview her at home instead


Thank you both for the additional information.

Who paid for the hotel stay in New York, and the plane tickets?

How will this sort of situation be prevented in the future?

/the foster care fked up, didn't have a legal case
//Vannata is not an angel
///so the elderly couple were never taught how to properly care for their baby, so that they don't repeat the same mistake with a new one?
 
2013-01-26 12:20:29 PM
www.charlieplace.com
 
2013-01-26 12:23:04 PM
i786.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-26 12:28:46 PM
Since this is a dog thread, I have a question/need advice:

How do you get a dog to stop 'submissive peeing'? (She's housebroken, but if she's startled or thinks you're mad or is happy to see you, sometimes she'll just sort of... let loose, in a whole "See see you are in charge" sort of deal). Given that she's doing it to *show* submission, I'm thinking a rebuke/stern 'no' isn't necessarily going to curb it. Currently, my solution is to put her back in her crate for a bit when she does that, though I've only started doing so recently. Is that the right tactic?

I think it comes from the fact that she was neglected/abused before the foster group got ahold of her.

Said foster group kind of neglected to mention this to us. (The submissive peeing bit, not the neglected/abused bit)

(They also sort of neglected to mention that, yes, while she was house trained, she was trained to go in a fenced-in yard, and had been trained to *not* go to the bathroom while on walks. ... Given that we live in an apartment, this was a problem for the first week or so, but she got ahold of it.)

Any advice is appreciated!
 
2013-01-26 12:34:33 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: tiamet4: It possible but given that she was a foster, meaning that the shelter probably uses its limited funds to pay for Obie's food and care, they may also have been miffed to find out she had set up a Paypal account and was collecting donations on his behalf herself instead of collaborating with the shelter. Probably could have been handled better on all sides.

styckx: From my understanding they were pissed she threw an overweight obese dog on a plane to New York to do TV when they all offered to fly out to Washington to interview her at home instead

Thank you both for the additional information.

Who paid for the hotel stay in New York, and the plane tickets?

How will this sort of situation be prevented in the future?

/the foster care fked up, didn't have a legal case
//Vannata is not an angel
///so the elderly couple were never taught how to properly care for their baby, so that they don't repeat the same mistake with a new one?


Not sure but I'd imagine it was all paid for by the TV studios.

I don't think Nora purposely meant to attention whore in light of the dogs fame I honestly think early on she got caught up in the spectacle of it all and was sort of dragged in.. Hence the trip to New York to do TV and such. She seems to have good intentions and we all make mistakes and get caught up in the moment of things.
 
2013-01-26 12:35:36 PM

Felgraf: Since this is a dog thread, I have a question/need advice:

How do you get a dog to stop 'submissive peeing'? (She's housebroken, but if she's startled or thinks you're mad or is happy to see you, sometimes she'll just sort of... let loose, in a whole "See see you are in charge" sort of deal). Given that she's doing it to *show* submission, I'm thinking a rebuke/stern 'no' isn't necessarily going to curb it. Currently, my solution is to put her back in her crate for a bit when she does that, though I've only started doing so recently. Is that the right tactic?

I think it comes from the fact that she was neglected/abused before the foster group got ahold of her.

Said foster group kind of neglected to mention this to us. (The submissive peeing bit, not the neglected/abused bit)

(They also sort of neglected to mention that, yes, while she was house trained, she was trained to go in a fenced-in yard, and had been trained to *not* go to the bathroom while on walks. ... Given that we live in an apartment, this was a problem for the first week or so, but she got ahold of it.)

Any advice is appreciated!


What breed is she? (Large, small, medium) Why does she spend time in a crate? Does she go out for a walk on a regular basis? Does she have someone with her most of the time? Could be some sort of separation anxiety.
 
2013-01-26 12:40:18 PM
I blame Garfield.

No, wait.

Obama.

Yeah. Obama's the one to blame.
 
2013-01-26 12:48:40 PM

offmymeds: Felgraf: Since this is a dog thread, I have a question/need advice:

How do you get a dog to stop 'submissive peeing'? (She's housebroken, but if she's startled or thinks you're mad or is happy to see you, sometimes she'll just sort of... let loose, in a whole "See see you are in charge" sort of deal). Given that she's doing it to *show* submission, I'm thinking a rebuke/stern 'no' isn't necessarily going to curb it. Currently, my solution is to put her back in her crate for a bit when she does that, though I've only started doing so recently. Is that the right tactic?

I think it comes from the fact that she was neglected/abused before the foster group got ahold of her.

Said foster group kind of neglected to mention this to us. (The submissive peeing bit, not the neglected/abused bit)

(They also sort of neglected to mention that, yes, while she was house trained, she was trained to go in a fenced-in yard, and had been trained to *not* go to the bathroom while on walks. ... Given that we live in an apartment, this was a problem for the first week or so, but she got ahold of it.)

Any advice is appreciated!

What breed is she? (Large, small, medium) Why does she spend time in a crate? Does she go out for a walk on a regular basis? Does she have someone with her most of the time? Could be some sort of separation anxiety.


Medium dog. She's a lab/beagle mix, or so we think. She's very lab-looking, if *small* for a lab, and has a very beagley-bark. Currently has to be crated because we can't currently trust her out of the crate (She's a bit... destructive, but she's also still only 9-10 months, and she's starting to mellow). She's also really, really food motivated/obsessed, and a bit too clever for her own good-we suspect that may stem from the aformentioned neglect (she was... REALLY underweight when we got her. Ribs were visible. Wasn't the foster's fault, they'd only had her for a few weeks). But that makes us nervous to leave her out of her crate, even if we make sure to remove everything from the area she could be in. What if we missed something she could get into?

I hadn't thought of the seperation anxiety problem, that could very well be it. Unfortunately, My fiance and I both currently work, though we try to stagger our schedules so she's not crated *too* long (and we give her toys to play with, generally with food hidden in them. Which is fine, because she is... or was... *really* underweight...)

She gets at least an hour to an hour and a half of walking a day, and quite a lot of play between me and the other (much smaller) dog (including getting down on the floor and playing with them). I'll look into the separation anxiety problem, and we'll also try to see if we can leave her out someday soon (after... I don't know, removing MOST of the things she could chew and destroy from reach.).

We do fall within the weight limits for our apartment, and the foster people often also had to crate her (since they were vet students, and spent about the same time of the day away that we did), but they never mentioned this... still, could be separation anxiety, aye.
 
2013-01-26 01:04:37 PM

Felgraf: offmymeds: Felgraf: Since this is a dog thread, I have a question/need advice:

How do you get a dog to stop 'submissive peeing'? (She's housebroken, but if she's startled or thinks you're mad or is happy to see you, sometimes she'll just sort of... let loose, in a whole "See see you are in charge" sort of deal). Given that she's doing it to *show* submission, I'm thinking a rebuke/stern 'no' isn't necessarily going to curb it. Currently, my solution is to put her back in her crate for a bit when she does that, though I've only started doing so recently. Is that the right tactic?

I think it comes from the fact that she was neglected/abused before the foster group got ahold of her.

Said foster group kind of neglected to mention this to us. (The submissive peeing bit, not the neglected/abused bit)

(They also sort of neglected to mention that, yes, while she was house trained, she was trained to go in a fenced-in yard, and had been trained to *not* go to the bathroom while on walks. ... Given that we live in an apartment, this was a problem for the first week or so, but she got ahold of it.)

Any advice is appreciated!

What breed is she? (Large, small, medium) Why does she spend time in a crate? Does she go out for a walk on a regular basis? Does she have someone with her most of the time? Could be some sort of separation anxiety.

Medium dog. She's a lab/beagle mix, or so we think. She's very lab-looking, if *small* for a lab, and has a very beagley-bark. Currently has to be crated because we can't currently trust her out of the crate (She's a bit... destructive, but she's also still only 9-10 months, and she's starting to mellow). She's also really, really food motivated/obsessed, and a bit too clever for her own good-we suspect that may stem from the aformentioned neglect (she was... REALLY underweight when we got her. Ribs were visible. Wasn't the foster's fault, they'd only had her for a few weeks). But that makes us nervous to leave her out of her crate, ev ...


You both sound like good responsible people to have as owners for her. We had a pit/lab mix once that we adopted as a puppy from the Humane Society who had pretty much the same problems as yours does (He had been abused). We live in a rural area so room wasn't the issue, but we couldn't leave him outside (my wife and I were both working at the time) because he would either jump the fence or dig his way out so we had to leave him inside while we were away. I don't know how many sets of bedsheets and pillows we went through because of his separation anxiety. He got over it as he got older so we didn't have to buy new sheets and pillows every week. He passed away 3 or 4 years ago. He was a good friend. We still miss him even though we have two other dogs with us still. We use to call him "Mr. Teeth" although his real name was Jake.
 
2013-01-26 01:07:57 PM

Felgraf: Since this is a dog thread, I have a question/need advice:

How do you get a dog to stop 'submissive peeing'? (She's housebroken, but if she's startled or thinks you're mad or is happy to see you, sometimes she'll just sort of... let loose, in a whole "See see you are in charge" sort of deal). Given that she's doing it to *show* submission, I'm thinking a rebuke/stern 'no' isn't necessarily going to curb it. Currently, my solution is to put her back in her crate for a bit when she does that, though I've only started doing so recently. Is that the right tactic?

I think it comes from the fact that she was neglected/abused before the foster group got ahold of her.

Said foster group kind of neglected to mention this to us. (The submissive peeing bit, not the neglected/abused bit)

(They also sort of neglected to mention that, yes, while she was house trained, she was trained to go in a fenced-in yard, and had been trained to *not* go to the bathroom while on walks. ... Given that we live in an apartment, this was a problem for the first week or so, but she got ahold of it.)

Any advice is appreciated!


One thing to try: do NOT greet the dog when you first get home. Ignore her. Don't even look at her. Put your stuff away, do whatever, then when everyone is settled and calm, give calm affection.
 
2013-01-26 01:10:47 PM

almandot: The cat is not pleased.


Christ, what an asshole.
 
2013-01-26 01:11:07 PM

offmymeds: You both sound like good responsible people to have as owners for her. We had a pit/lab mix once that we adopted as a puppy from the Humane Society who had pretty much the same problems as yours does (He had been abused). We live in a rural area so room wasn't the issue, but we couldn't leave him outside (my wife and I were both working at the time) because he would either jump the fence or dig his way out so we had to leave him inside while we were away. I don't know how many sets of bedsheets and pillows we went through because of his separation anxiety. He got over it as he got older so we didn't have to buy new sheets and pillows every week. He passed away 3 or 4 years ago. He was a good friend. We still miss him even though we have two other dogs with us still. We use to call him "Mr. Teeth" although his real name was Jake.



Aye, we let the foster group come tour our apartment. I really, REALLY wish we could afford/had a house-I would love to give her (and the other dog, a terrier mix... but really friendly and sweet for a terrier. He's only territorial towards other dogs approximately his size) a yard to run around in. Ah well, perhaps once I am no longer a grad student and actually have a job that pays more! I may also see if I can convince the apartment complex to build a dog park, there's a good bit of unused (and largely unuseable) green space in the complex...

Once the weather gets warmer, I'm tempted to take them to the local dog park (even if it is on the other side of town), save that I suspect Luna (the lab/beagle) maaaayyy spend her entire time there trying to eat all the poop.

It's weird, I was never a dog person until I met my fiance. (Still probably *more* of a cat person, but I do quite like dogs now.)
 
2013-01-26 01:55:40 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: I don't get it. Why is this a custody battle? It's not explained in the 'article'. The article just says a settlement was reached, without explaining why there was a legal battle in the first place.

As for the other article: "Vanatta said the former owners, an elderly couple from Marysville, WA, couldn't care for the dog properly. A family member of the couple contacted to dog rescue group for help."

That's nice that she's a foster mom to this dog who was obviously loved by the original elderly couple, but taking the dog away from the people who loved him because they were unintentionally cruel instead of serial killer cruel is kind of lame.

Does the original elderly couple get visitation rights with their baby doxie, in this settlement? Why did Vanatta have to fight the Oregon Dachshund Rescue, who took in the dog after the elderly couple's family asked them to, in the first place?


This was all about money. The shelter people got pissy because people donated so much money to help the dog but it went to the lady taking care of him not the shelter--who would have used it for other things like vacations and pay raises and other stuff.
 
2013-01-26 01:58:04 PM
YAY!
 
2013-01-26 02:00:23 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: tiamet4: It possible but given that she was a foster, meaning that the shelter probably uses its limited funds to pay for Obie's food and care, they may also have been miffed to find out she had set up a Paypal account and was collecting donations on his behalf herself instead of collaborating with the shelter. Probably could have been handled better on all sides.

styckx: From my understanding they were pissed she threw an overweight obese dog on a plane to New York to do TV when they all offered to fly out to Washington to interview her at home instead

Thank you both for the additional information.

Who paid for the hotel stay in New York, and the plane tickets?

How will this sort of situation be prevented in the future?

/the foster care fked up, didn't have a legal case
//Vannata is not an angel
///so the elderly couple were never taught how to properly care for their baby, so that they don't repeat the same mistake with a new one?


i'm not sure if you a really bad troll, or just dumb.

Everyone knows you can't teach an old dog(owner) new tricks
 
2013-01-26 03:32:21 PM

Felgraf: Since this is a dog thread, I have a question/need advice:

How do you get a dog to stop 'submissive peeing'? (She's housebroken, but if she's startled or thinks you're mad or is happy to see you, sometimes she'll just sort of... let loose, in a whole "See see you are in charge" sort of deal).


I am no help but my dad has a rotter that does this too when she sees me. I lived at home during her formative years and spent a lot of time with her. Now I don't get home as much and when she does see me, she pees herself with doggy joy. She's 4 years old now. Haven't bothered trying to correct it because she's an outdoor farm dog anyway. She was not at all abused and was very much loved.
 
2013-01-26 05:11:44 PM

namegoeshere: Felgraf: Since this is a dog thread, I have a question/need advice:

How do you get a dog to stop 'submissive peeing'? (She's housebroken, but if she's startled or thinks you're mad or is happy to see you, sometimes she'll just sort of... let loose, in a whole "See see you are in charge" sort of deal). Given that she's doing it to *show* submission, I'm thinking a rebuke/stern 'no' isn't necessarily going to curb it. Currently, my solution is to put her back in her crate for a bit when she does that, though I've only started doing so recently. Is that the right tactic?

I think it comes from the fact that she was neglected/abused before the foster group got ahold of her.

Said foster group kind of neglected to mention this to us. (The submissive peeing bit, not the neglected/abused bit)

(They also sort of neglected to mention that, yes, while she was house trained, she was trained to go in a fenced-in yard, and had been trained to *not* go to the bathroom while on walks. ... Given that we live in an apartment, this was a problem for the first week or so, but she got ahold of it.)

Any advice is appreciated!

One thing to try: do NOT greet the dog when you first get home. Ignore her. Don't even look at her. Put your stuff away, do whatever, then when everyone is settled and calm, give calm affection.


Very true. Wait until she is calm and quiet to greet her calmly and quietly. Also, you're right in your initial thought: never scold or punish her for the submissive urination (no matter how unhappy you are). Clean it up and ignore her. I wouldn't crate her because that could also be seen as a punishment. Punishment just makes them fearful and increases the likelihood that they will pee. You can't punish it away anyway. It's not something they can control.

You can also try giving her something to do during exciting situations that prevent her from peeing (toss a ball for her to chase or set out a Kong with goodies if you are, say, trying to usher in a bunch of interesting visitors).

If she submissively pees when being punished, I would also think about the punishment you're using. Punishments for dogs should be brief and occur within 10 seconds of the behavior you're trying to punish for the dog to make the connection. Keeping it brief and to the point will probably help curb that. If you're, say, scolding her while dragging her over to the trash she got into an hour ago you're better off getting a stronger lock on your trash can.

It's a frustrating problem but a lot of dogs will get better about it with age. Sometimes they also develop better sphincter control when they are adults (I'm not sure how old your dog is)
 
2013-01-26 05:52:36 PM

Sgt Otter: FYI, if you live in the Portland area and want to meet Obie, he'll be at the Lucky Labrador Brewery on SE Hawthorne around 3pm, today.


I wish I had seen this earlier.
 
2013-01-26 06:54:50 PM

Felgraf: Since this is a dog thread, I have a question/need advice:

How do you get a dog to stop 'submissive peeing'? (She's housebroken, but if she's startled or thinks you're mad or is happy to see you, sometimes she'll just sort of... let loose, in a whole "See see you are in charge" sort of deal). Given that she's doing it to *show* submission, I'm thinking a rebuke/stern 'no' isn't necessarily going to curb it. Currently, my solution is to put her back in her crate for a bit when she does that, though I've only started doing so recently. Is that the right tactic?

I think it comes from the fact that she was neglected/abused before the foster group got ahold of her.

Said foster group kind of neglected to mention this to us. (The submissive peeing bit, not the neglected/abused bit)

(They also sort of neglected to mention that, yes, while she was house trained, she was trained to go in a fenced-in yard, and had been trained to *not* go to the bathroom while on walks. ... Given that we live in an apartment, this was a problem for the first week or so, but she got ahold of it.)

Any advice is appreciated!


Here's a pretty decent bit of information from my vets office

https://www.vetsecure.com/williamsburgvetclinic.com/articles/111
 
2013-01-26 07:11:38 PM

Felgraf: Since this is a dog thread, I have a question/need advice:

How do you get a dog to stop 'submissive peeing'? (She's housebroken, but if she's startled or thinks you're mad or is happy to see you, sometimes she'll just sort of... let loose, in a whole "See see you are in charge" sort of deal). Given that she's doing it to *show* submission, I'm thinking a rebuke/stern 'no' isn't necessarily going to curb it. Currently, my solution is to put her back in her crate for a bit when she does that, though I've only started doing so recently. Is that the right tactic?

I think it comes from the fact that she was neglected/abused before the foster group got ahold of her.

Said foster group kind of neglected to mention this to us. (The submissive peeing bit, not the neglected/abused bit)

(They also sort of neglected to mention that, yes, while she was house trained, she was trained to go in a fenced-in yard, and had been trained to *not* go to the bathroom while on walks. ... Given that we live in an apartment, this was a problem for the first week or so, but she got ahold of it.)

Any advice is appreciated!


Hi,

I'm not a professional trainer, but I'm on the behavior team for a rescue group. I've had LOTS of training from professional trainers and worked with a lot of dogs on a variety of behavior issues including many that were abused.

So, for submissive peeing:

You're right that a stern rebuke/no isn't going to do. Putting her in her crate after she does it also isn't helping.

This often happens with dogs that have been abused, they're actually trying to get the abuse to stop by indicating that they're not a threat. You said that she also does it when she thinks you're happy; that sound like "excitement" peeing, not submissive peeing. What you have is two types of peeing but you're going to correct them both essentially the same way.

Puppies, even after they're housebroken, are still learning bladder control. This should improve as she gets older.

Is the dog a spayed female? Sometimes spayed females develop a weak bladder sphincter. So check with your vet for this possibility. Usually dogs with this problem also "leak." She'll get up and leave a wet spot behind, she doesn't even know she peed. So it's always to to check with a vet to see if there's any physical cause.

Always clean up urine with Nature's Miracle, following the directions. Any smell of urine tells the dog that it's an okay place to pee. It may smell fine to you, but a dog's sense of smell is ~10,000x more sensitive that a human's. Nature's Miracle will neutralize the smell so that your dog doesn't smell urine. Do not use any cleaner with ammonia. Urine contains ammonia so if you use a cleaner with ammonia, you're giving the dog many more places that are okay to pee. I would get a black light and check the house, cleaning any spots with Nature's Miracle. It will be nearly impossible to stop the submissive peeing if the dog is getting any signs that it's okay to pee somewhere in the house.

I don't want any of the following to sound like I'm blaming you. I'm not. But you're the one who is going to have to change what you're doing in order to resolve the problem.

The peeing is a learned behavior response. You have to stop the behavior that is triggering the response. You need to determine EXACTLY when she does the submissive peeing. You said she does it if she thinks you're mad. What precisely are you doing that makes her think you're mad? Is it your tone of voice? Do you loom over her? Leaning over, touching the top of the head or neck, those are dominant behaviors. When exactly is the "happy" trigger? When you talk to her? When you lean over to pet her? When you go to pat her on the head? Is there something the dog does right before she pees? Drop her tail? Look around? You need to observe yourself very carefully to determine the precise trigger, then stop doing that. Observe the dog very carefully to see if there's some signal she gives that she's about to pee. Watch for that signal (there may not be one) and turn around and walk away when you see it. I don't mean to sound flip by saying "stop doing that" but something you're doing is signaling her to pee.

For excitement peeing, try not going up to the dog to greet her when you come home. Wait and let her come to you. Instruct visitors to do the same. Just give her a quick calm greeting, don't get her all worked up (this is also part of resolving separation anxiety, which I'll also address).

There should be no reason to get angry with her. I don't know if you're actually expressing anger or it's just something she interprets as anger. Remember, she was essentially trained to do this by someone else and you need to avoid giving her the signal to pee.

Confidence building helps tremendously with this. Have you taken her to training classes? If not, sign up. It's always good to start with the basics, even if you think she's already learned the basics. It's a fine-tuning with professional help. And it would also be good to get some suggestions from a professional who has observed the dog. Make sure you go to a quality training facility (not PetsMart). What ever you do, don't go to a place called "Sit Means Sit" unless you want to increase the peeing. Look for a place that stresses positive training methods ONLY.

Once she's completed a basics class, sign up for a class on tricks or some agility training. Talk to the trainer about what class class will be best for her. As you build her confidence and trust in you, the peeing should stop.
 
2013-01-26 07:42:39 PM
Felgraf : (She's a bit... destructive, but she's also still only 9-10 months, and she's starting to mellow). She's also really, really food motivated/obsessed, and a bit too clever for her own good-we suspect that may stem from the aformentioned neglect (she was... REALLY underweight when we got her. Ribs were visible. Wasn't the foster's fault, they'd only had her for a few weeks). But that makes us nervous to leave her out of her crate, even if we make sure to remove everything from the area she could be in. What if we missed something she could get into?

I hadn't thought of the seperation anxiety problem, that could very well be it. Unfortunately, My fiance and I both currently work, though we try to stagger our schedules so she's not crated *too* long (and we give her toys to play with, generally with food hidden in them. Which is fine, because she is... or was... *really* underweight...)

She gets at least an hour to an hour and a half of walking a day, and quite a lot of play between me and the other (much smaller) dog (including getting down on the floor and playing with them). I'll look into the separation anxiety problem, and we'll also try to see if we can leave her out someday soon (after... I don't know, removing MOST of the things she could chew and destroy from reach.).


Many dogs that have been abused and are underweight are food obsessed. The good news is that high food motivation makes training easier.

Toys with food in them are excellent. Do you have kongs? Stuff them with peanut butter and put them in the freezer. Many dogs love canned pumpkin (100% pumpkin, NOT pumpkin pie mix). Mix in some chopped up carrots. You can also stuff them with a mixture of meat baby food, rice flour and powdered milk. Read the baby food label carefully to make sure there are no onions.

Make her the crate a happy fun place. Make sure it has good padding. Toss toys and treats in there. The crate is her den, her happy place, her retreat place. Make sure her crate is the right size. It should be big enough for her to stand and turn around but no more. Any bigger and she'll pee in the crate. PetsMarts sells adjustable crates, they're ideal.

She definitely has separation anxiety; the destruction is a symptom. You definitely want to put her in the crate when no one is home. It's stressful for her to be out of the crate when she's alone at home. Trying to remove most things she can chew/destroy is not a solution; she'll still be anxious and looking for an outlet for her anxiety.

Once you resolve the separation anxiety you can leave her out when you're gone if you like. Some trainers will say to always leave the dog in the crate when you're gone no matter what. Personally, I disagree. The crate is a tool, not a doggie storage device. But there is nothing wrong with putting her in the crate while you're out. It's the best thing to do in this case since, as I said, it's stressful for her to be out when no one is home.

Dogs, and puppies in particular, like to chew. When you're home, give her a variety of things to chew-toys, puppy chews (rawhides when she's older), etc. Don't give her chewy things when she's not supervised. This is especially important with rawhide; dogs can (and have) choked to death on a piece of rawhide.

To address the separation anxiety, your comings and goings should not be major occasions. Don't make a big deal out of saying good bye on your way out. When you come in (or let her out of her crate), don't greet her immediately. Walk around, put your stuff down, then give her a a calm greeting.

Make sure your visitors give her a calm greeting. Tell them to ignore the dog when they first come in, let the dog come to them, and just give her a quick pet and hello. Don't let them get her worked up (and don't do it yourself either) or you're going to see the peeing.

Try not to have a specific routine when you leave the house. Do you always get up, shower, get dressed, eat breakfast, pick up your keys and backpack and leave, in that some order? Mix it up. Get up, eat breakfast before you shower or before you get dressed. Take your backpack out to the car before breakfast, come back in and eat. The key is that you don't want the dog to know that you're going to be leaving.

If you do this for a while and want to try leaving her alone out of the crate, start by doing it for very short periods of time, maybe 1 minute, no more than 5. Go in and out with no big production, good-bye or greeting. Vary the amount of time and gradually increase it. Some dogs never get over the separation anxiety enough to be out when no one's home. If you dog is one of those, don't worry about it. She's happy when you're home, relaxed and contented when she's in her crate. No anxiety.

Keep up the walks and the playing. About half of all behavior problems can be resolved through more exercise. She's getting plenty of exercise, I just mention if for anyone else who might be reading.
 
2013-01-26 08:01:24 PM
also for Felgraf:

You don't mention any unwanted behaviors while you're home, but almost every dog has them and I'm on a roll, so I'm going to give you a method for dealing with those. And it's especially important in your case to avoid sounding angry. I would say that you don't want to work on correcting behavior until you've resolved the peeing issue but talk to your trainer.

It's up to you to define an unwanted behavior. It you're okay with the dog jumping on the couch, barking when anyone walks by, counter surfing, etc., then it's not an unwanted behavior. But let's say to don't want your dog grabbing food off the coffee table.

This is a system called "too bad." You're going to need two things:

a "time out" space (NOT the crate). The bathroom is usually ideal for this. You want a small space with no toys, food, stuff to chew on, etc. You want an empty space or as close to empty as you can get.

A drag lead. Do NOT use a leash. The leash is only for walks and other fun activities. You can use a smallish thickness of rope but not a string or anything that will wrap around a table leg. You don't want the dog getting caught and stuck. The cables sold for tying down a dog outside are usually ideal but you only need about 6'.

Attach the drag lead to the collar. It will remain there whenever you're home and the dog is out of her crate.

When you see the bad behavior, pick up the drag lead, say "too bad" and talke her to the time out room. Put her in a close the door. Be noncholant about picking up the lead and taking her to the TO room. Act as if you're just strolling by. Don't look at her, talk to her or interact with her in any way.

Once she's in the room, set a timer for 20 minutes. You're waiting for 20 quiet minutes. If there's barking or howling or scratching, restart the timer. When there have been 20 quiet minutes, walk by the room, open the door and just keep walking. No interaction for 1 full minute (you don't want her anticipating getting out as a fun thing).

You're teaching her that whenever she does X, she gets removed from her pack, her toys, all the good stuff. It will make her stop doing X.

After you've had 15 time outs, you can reduce the time out to 2 minutes. She has the idea. You should get to the 15 within one week, try for at least 3 TOs a day. If you're not seeing the bad behavior enough for that, then set her up. Deliberately leave food on the coffee table. Get a friend to walk by the house. Do whatever to get the dog to engage in the unwanted behavior so you can correct it.

After a few weeks, your dog will understand that the phrase "too bad" means "stop doing that" and will likely walk to the T.O. place herself.

I hope this all helps. If you have questions, leave them here. I'll check back.
 
2013-01-28 06:42:54 AM

andyofne: This was all about money. The shelter people got pissy because people donated so much money to help the dog but it went to the lady taking care of him not the shelter--who would have used it for other things like vacations and pay raises and other stuff.


The groups form 990 filings would seem to indicate that this is a distinct possibility. Just at a casual glance at their 2010 filing (the last year I could find), it appears that only about 42 percent of what they receive in donations goes to the actual rescue and placement of dogs. The rest appears to go to the support of the organization president.

/I could be wrong
//have been wrong before
///will probably be wrong again
(although I could be wrong about that)
 
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