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(Vallejo Times Herald)   High school football coach finds out freshmen players were sexually hazed by varsity players. Coach reports it. Gets fired as a result   (timesheraldonline.com) divider line 59
    More: Asinine, freshman  
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2816 clicks; posted to Sports » on 26 Jan 2013 at 8:41 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-26 08:42:17 AM  
This is a perfectly normal event.  Definitely not news.
 
2013-01-26 08:50:04 AM  
The overtly homosexual behavior of athletes in "hazing" incidents like this makes one wonder why sports seems to be the most machismo-infused activity men engage in.
 
2013-01-26 08:51:31 AM  
Headline is misleading.  He was fired, not for reporting it, he was fired because the school's investigation found that he had improperly supervised his players, making it possible for something like this to go on numerous times.  Had it only been once, when the coaches were dealing with a player injury or something, that's excusable.  The fact that it happened numerous times, while coaches were not around, is not excusable.
 
2013-01-26 08:58:13 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: The overtly homosexual behavior of athletes in "hazing" incidents like this makes one wonder why sports seems to be the most machismo-infused activity men engage in.


Well, I mean, Boy Rape hasn't been that popular since the Greeks...
 
2013-01-26 09:00:18 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: The overtly homosexual behavior of athletes in "hazing" incidents like this makes one wonder why sports seems to be the most machismo-infused activity men engage in.


I don't think "homosexual behavior" describes this in any way. If these little criminals held down a female and rubbed their genitalia in her face, we wouldn't call that "heterosexual behavior" -- we'd call it assault.
 
2013-01-26 09:02:53 AM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Headline is misleading.  He was fired, not for reporting it, he was fired because the school's investigation found that he had improperly supervised his players, making it possible for something like this to go on numerous times.  Had it only been once, when the coaches were dealing with a player injury or something, that's excusable.  The fact that it happened numerous times, while coaches were not around, is not excusable.


As someone who participated in a very limited scale in high school athletics... shouldn't every single person involved with the team be fired as well?

I remember my high school's locker room, and let's just say if you wanted bad things to happen it could have probably happened without any coaches being the wiser, and it could have probably happened all the time. Then again, I didn't go to school in the era where every gym teacher watched as his students were forced to shower or receive a failing grade in gym class, so maybe the perspective of these school administrators is lost on me.
 
2013-01-26 09:02:58 AM  

Blink: AverageAmericanGuy: The overtly homosexual behavior of athletes in "hazing" incidents like this makes one wonder why sports seems to be the most machismo-infused activity men engage in.

I don't think "homosexual behavior" describes this in any way. If these little criminals held down a female and rubbed their genitalia in her face, we wouldn't call that "heterosexual behavior" -- we'd call it assault.


The desire to place one's penis and scrotum on another man's face or have another man put his face on one's anus is not a heterosexual compulsion. It might be if the victim was a woman, and in either case it would be assault, of course.
 
2013-01-26 09:03:55 AM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Headline is misleading.  He was fired, not for reporting it, he was fired because the school's investigation found that he had improperly supervised his players, making it possible for something like this to go on numerous times.  Had it only been once, when the coaches were dealing with a player injury or something, that's excusable.  The fact that it happened numerous times, while coaches were not around, is not excusable.


If the coach has to sit and stare at the players while they change in order to "properly supervise" them, then we've already lost. I grew up a swimmer, soccer player, and a tennis player and don't recall any coaches ever showing up in our locker room -- never once did anything sexual/criminal ever happen. Coaches should not be punished because kids are allowed the privacy to change/get dressed.
 
2013-01-26 09:07:41 AM  
And I'm not defending anything, nor saying anything didn't happen that he should not have "seen," I just saw a statement in the article that made me wonder if this was done moreso because of outside pressure than because he was actually neglectful.

Basically, without further evidence, I'll speculate based on other situations I've seen in athletics across this country: this coach seems like the fall guy for what amounts to institutional sexual assault over the course of what was probably many years involving many people, coaches and players alike. Oh, and this Ryan person... yeah... cover up.
 
2013-01-26 09:08:26 AM  
That's some fine principal work there, Lou.
 
2013-01-26 09:09:24 AM  
The more macho the sport, the gayer the athlete.
 
2013-01-26 09:10:14 AM  

puffy999: this coach seems like the fall guy for what amounts to institutional sexual assault over the course of what was probably many years involving many people, coaches and players alike. Oh, and this Ryan person... yeah... cover up.



yup. whent he lawsuits hit, the school/diocese now have an escape goat. "hey man, we fired the guy that was in charge!"
 
2013-01-26 09:11:42 AM  

puffy999: HideAndGoFarkYourself: Headline is misleading.  He was fired, not for reporting it, he was fired because the school's investigation found that he had improperly supervised his players, making it possible for something like this to go on numerous times.  Had it only been once, when the coaches were dealing with a player injury or something, that's excusable.  The fact that it happened numerous times, while coaches were not around, is not excusable.

As someone who participated in a very limited scale in high school athletics... shouldn't every single person involved with the team be fired as well?

I remember my high school's locker room, and let's just say if you wanted bad things to happen it could have probably happened without any coaches being the wiser, and it could have probably happened all the time. Then again, I didn't go to school in the era where every gym teacher watched as his students were forced to shower or receive a failing grade in gym class, so maybe the perspective of these school administrators is lost on me.


Also, it sends the wrong message to teachers/coaches...Don't report anything bad if you value your job, we'll fire you, because you were in charge.

I sorta get the feeling that the admins wanted to make everything connected with the incident "go away" in a hurry.
 
2013-01-26 09:12:25 AM  

great_tigers: The more macho the sport, the gayer the athlete.


Difficulty: soccer players
 
2013-01-26 09:14:24 AM  
And in reality, no, he should lose his job for not reporting to police instead of his supervisor. But because he ultimately did the right thing I can't complain as much, so he shouldn't necessarily lose his career.

However, this Principal? Yeah, again, she should consider another line of work right now. She deserves to be held TO HER OWN standard. Athletics are part of HER school.
 
2013-01-26 09:16:48 AM  

fatalvenom: great_tigers: The more macho the sport, the gayer the athlete.

Difficulty: soccer players


I was talking about straight athletes with homosexual tenancies. Not the actual gay athletes.
 
2013-01-26 09:18:40 AM  

Blink: HideAndGoFarkYourself: Headline is misleading.  He was fired, not for reporting it, he was fired because the school's investigation found that he had improperly supervised his players, making it possible for something like this to go on numerous times.  Had it only been once, when the coaches were dealing with a player injury or something, that's excusable.  The fact that it happened numerous times, while coaches were not around, is not excusable.

If the coach has to sit and stare at the players while they change in order to "properly supervise" them, then we've already lost. I grew up a swimmer, soccer player, and a tennis player and don't recall any coaches ever showing up in our locker room -- never once did anything sexual/criminal ever happen. Coaches should not be punished because kids are allowed the privacy to change/get dressed.


As someone who has coached at the high school level you might (but probably not) will be shocked to find that times have changed and Yes, as a matter of fact we were required to supervise the locker rooms pretty much at all times. Practice is ending, 80 muddy nasty players start hauling in the equipment - one coach is standing at the equipment shed so nothing happens in there, two more head to the locker room and shower area so nothing can happen in there, two more stay on the field till all the crap is picked up so no one is unsupervised out there....

Hell we have to hire people to stand outside the locker rooms during the day as kids (boys and girls) get changed for gym, just in case.

And despite ALL of that there are still times and spaces that if someone was REALLY intent on doing something stupid they could find a couple minutes where supervision was just far enough away to get away with it. And if a parent REALLY wants to make a legal case out of it they will be able to claim the school/coach whatever failed in their duty to supervise and probably win. These jobs are like walking an endless mine field - you are eventually going to step on a mine no matter how careful you are.
 
2013-01-26 09:19:16 AM  

great_tigers: fatalvenom: great_tigers: The more macho the sport, the gayer the athlete.

Difficulty: soccer players

I was talking about straight athletes with homosexual tenancies. Not the actual gay athletes.


Here I thought you were talking about athletes, not 90-minute power walkers.
 
2013-01-26 09:25:34 AM  

Fizpez: As someone who has coached at the high school level you might (but probably not) will be shocked to find that times have changed and Yes, as a matter of fact we were required to supervise the locker rooms pretty much at all times.


Supervise to realistic human capability, not see all nooks and crannies. And, let's ask, are assistant/JV coaches not applicable? They were when I was in school, though over 10 years ago is when I graduated. ... Maybe it was 9/11?...

Fizpez: Hell we have to hire people to stand outside the locker rooms during the day as kids (boys and girls) get changed for gym, just in case.


Never in my life have I heard of such a thing. I must live in a simpler place, only 800 students at my high school when I graduated.

I liked my school. My athletic hazing was carrying a 300 lb man piggyback around the lockerroom (clothed) and laughing about it.
 
2013-01-26 09:28:26 AM  
Oh, wait, now that I think of it, there actually was a sexual assault case or two after I graduated at my school...

So maybe times HAVE changed.
 
2013-01-26 09:33:00 AM  

puffy999: Fizpez: As someone who has coached at the high school level you might (but probably not) will be shocked to find that times have changed and Yes, as a matter of fact we were required to supervise the locker rooms pretty much at all times.

Supervise to realistic human capability, not see all nooks and crannies. And, let's ask, are assistant/JV coaches not applicable? They were when I was in school, though over 10 years ago is when I graduated. ... Maybe it was 9/11?...

Fizpez: Hell we have to hire people to stand outside the locker rooms during the day as kids (boys and girls) get changed for gym, just in case.

Never in my life have I heard of such a thing. I must live in a simpler place, only 800 students at my high school when I graduated.

I liked my school. My athletic hazing was carrying a 300 lb man piggyback around the lockerroom (clothed) and laughing about it.


Well, you see, you and I are reasonable people - we would accept that it is impossible to be everywhere at all times and there is likely to be any number of gaps in the armor if you will. But if something happens to someones kid that standard goes right out the window - find the right lawyer and you have a case.
 
2013-01-26 09:44:15 AM  
Never go up against an institution with so much experience burying these kinds of things.
 
2013-01-26 09:45:43 AM  

Fizpez: it.

Well, you see, you and I are reasonable people - we would accept that it is impossible to be everywhere at all times and there is likely to be any number of gaps in the armor if you will. But if something happens to someones kid that standard goes right out the window - find the right lawyer and you have a case.


While I get that, particularly in this day, I think that is irrelevant to the not reporting to police thing. But again, "why is the principal not held to that standard?" is my question if it's about how people of authority should be punished.

I went to a cheap-o public school, so maybe things are different, but the Principal made a lot more than the football coach (including his teaching salary).
 
2013-01-26 09:47:12 AM  
Well, punished for the liability protection of the school, not punished because they did "wrong."

I imagine we've not heard the last of this story. And by "we" I mean people who follow this, which I probably won't, unless it's posted on Fark, which it probably won't be.
 
2013-01-26 09:59:56 AM  
They're just preparing for when they join a fraternity in college.
 
2013-01-26 10:12:28 AM  
I know of a situation in the Navy where a captain took over a ship, discovered there was rampant cheating on quals, reported it, and got relieved.
 
2013-01-26 10:15:43 AM  

oh_please: puffy999: HideAndGoFarkYourself: Headline is misleading.  He was fired, not for reporting it, he was fired because the school's investigation found that he had improperly supervised his players, making it possible for something like this to go on numerous times.  Had it only been once, when the coaches were dealing with a player injury or something, that's excusable.  The fact that it happened numerous times, while coaches were not around, is not excusable.

As someone who participated in a very limited scale in high school athletics... shouldn't every single person involved with the team be fired as well?

I remember my high school's locker room, and let's just say if you wanted bad things to happen it could have probably happened without any coaches being the wiser, and it could have probably happened all the time. Then again, I didn't go to school in the era where every gym teacher watched as his students were forced to shower or receive a failing grade in gym class, so maybe the perspective of these school administrators is lost on me.

Also, it sends the wrong message to teachers/coaches...Don't report anything bad if you value your job, we'll fire you, because you were in charge.

I sorta get the feeling that the admins wanted to make everything connected with the incident "go away" in a hurry.


How's that going in Western PA?

Hopefully, they've distracted the DoJ enough to bury it.
 
2013-01-26 10:18:10 AM  

fatalvenom: great_tigers: The more macho the sport, the gayer the athlete.

Difficulty: soccer players


Soccer? really? Sure, they have amazing stamina (so do teh geys. coincidence?). But, really, they're always falling on the ground like little biatches.. "He PUSHED me! Wahhhhh!"

Soccer is only popular because South America, Africa, and eastern Europe use it as a way to escape the fact that they live in squalor.

What's that little boy? You eat out of a trashcan? Your parents were killed in the latest pillage? You have malaria? HERE'S A SOCCER BALL! Now go play, you little scamp...
 
2013-01-26 10:28:03 AM  
Considering the stuff I saw people get away with in my high school's locker room before/after gym (nothing like TFA, just drinking, cheating for other classes, drugs, nothing on the level of stuffing dude's faces into asses) I can't really imagine how you can hold the coaches/gym teachers responsible. The locker room was just too big for even a dozen coaches to keep track of everything going on in there. At least the guy in TFA was paying enough attention to have a student tell him what was going on and report it to his supervisors.
 
2013-01-26 10:33:18 AM  

TiiiMMMaHHH: Soccer is only popular because South America, Africa, and eastern Europe use it as a way to escape the fact that they live in squalor.


So it's like why football is so popular with poor people in the US?
 
2013-01-26 10:34:17 AM  

great_tigers: The more macho the sport, the gayer the athlete.


that sums up the ufc perfectly
 
2013-01-26 10:37:37 AM  
And then when they have coaches "closely supervising" the locker room, one of the kids accuses them of meat gazing and that becomes the next scandal that gets a parent into a huff. Not diminishing this at all (it's clearly sexual assault and the kids need to be found and punished), but the coaches/admin really can't win either way.
 
2013-01-26 10:46:23 AM  

TiiiMMMaHHH: fatalvenom: great_tigers: The more macho the sport, the gayer the athlete.

Difficulty: soccer players

Soccer? really? Sure, they have amazing stamina (so do teh geys. coincidence?). But, really, they're always falling on the ground like little biatches.. "He PUSHED me! Wahhhhh!"

Soccer is only popular because South the world America, Africa, and eastern Europe use it as a way to escape the fact that they live in squalor.

What's that little boy? You eat out of a trashcan? Your parents were killed in the latest pillage? You have malaria? HERE'S A SOCCER BALL! Now go play, you little scamp...


As someone who played soccer at a competitive level, I agree with you to a certain extent. In regards to the poverty angle, yes, you are one hundred percent correct. I "think" it's called the beautiful game because anyone can play, all you need is a ball.

In regards to the physical aspect of it, it is a much rougher game at the amateur level, and it's appreciated that way. You see the diving at the highest levels where stakes are higher. (This has now spread to hockey, and basketball to a lesser degree.)

In amateur sports, your own teammates will tell you "get up, you pussy" if you drop.
 
2013-01-26 11:28:36 AM  

rickythepenguin: puffy999: this coach seems like the fall guy for what amounts to institutional sexual assault over the course of what was probably many years involving many people, coaches and players alike. Oh, and this Ryan person... yeah... cover up.


yup. whent he lawsuits hit, the school/diocese now have an escape goat. "hey man, we fired the guy that was in charge!"


Escape goat? Really?
 
2013-01-26 11:42:22 AM  

puffy999: HideAndGoFarkYourself: Headline is misleading.  He was fired, not for reporting it, he was fired because the school's investigation found that he had improperly supervised his players, making it possible for something like this to go on numerous times.  Had it only been once, when the coaches were dealing with a player injury or something, that's excusable.  The fact that it happened numerous times, while coaches were not around, is not excusable.

As someone who participated in a very limited scale in high school athletics... shouldn't every single person involved with the team be fired as well?

I remember my high school's locker room, and let's just say if you wanted bad things to happen it could have probably happened without any coaches being the wiser, and it could have probably happened all the time. Then again, I didn't go to school in the era where every gym teacher watched as his students were forced to shower or receive a failing grade in gym class, so maybe the perspective of these school administrators is lost on me.


I should think they'd all be relieved of their jobs, especially the one who said it was not his problem.  I could see keeping some coaches, like the Freshman team coaches, or whoever wasn't around at the time, but any coach who was supposed to be supervising the athletes at that time, and didn't, should be let go.
 
2013-01-26 11:56:25 AM  
Remember back in the '80s when everybody had to be frisked for weapons on the way into school?

Me neither.

Surprise! Kids are scumbags. Moreso this year than last. Next year will be worse. And in a few years these assholes will be parents and teachers. Lather, rinse, repeat.
 
2013-01-26 11:59:03 AM  

Blink: HideAndGoFarkYourself: Headline is misleading.  He was fired, not for reporting it, he was fired because the school's investigation found that he had improperly supervised his players, making it possible for something like this to go on numerous times.  Had it only been once, when the coaches were dealing with a player injury or something, that's excusable.  The fact that it happened numerous times, while coaches were not around, is not excusable.

If the coach has to sit and stare at the players while they change in order to "properly supervise" them, then we've already lost. I grew up a swimmer, soccer player, and a tennis player and don't recall any coaches ever showing up in our locker room -- never once did anything sexual/criminal ever happen. Coaches should not be punished because kids are allowed the privacy to change/get dressed.


I current coach soccer at a high school.  Our locker room has a separate coaches office with a large picture window that is attached to the main locker room.  We sit in there, with the door open, while the players are changing before and after practice.  If there's no such set up in other team's locker rooms, then the coaches need to figure out a supervision plan to ensure that they can at least HEAR what's going on in a locker room, while periodically poking their heads in and ensuring no kids are being raped, locked in lockers, pissed on, etc.
 
2013-01-26 12:13:52 PM  

davidphogan: TiiiMMMaHHH: Soccer is only popular because South America, Africa, and eastern Europe use it as a way to escape the fact that they live in squalor.

So it's like why football basketball is so popular with poor people in the US?


Football is expensive to play. Basketball and soccer both require the minimal amount of space and equipment, aside from a ball.
 
2013-01-26 12:54:49 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Blink: AverageAmericanGuy: The overtly homosexual behavior of athletes in "hazing" incidents like this makes one wonder why sports seems to be the most machismo-infused activity men engage in.

I don't think "homosexual behavior" describes this in any way. If these little criminals held down a female and rubbed their genitalia in her face, we wouldn't call that "heterosexual behavior" -- we'd call it assault.

The desire to place one's penis and scrotum on another man's face or have another man put his face on one's anus is not a heterosexual compulsion. It might be if the victim was a woman, and in either case it would be assault, of course.


Neither is it a homosexual one. It is one of dominance and control and not a sexual compulsion.
 
2013-01-26 12:56:27 PM  

Moopy Mac: AverageAmericanGuy: Blink: AverageAmericanGuy: The overtly homosexual behavior of athletes in "hazing" incidents like this makes one wonder why sports seems to be the most machismo-infused activity men engage in.

I don't think "homosexual behavior" describes this in any way. If these little criminals held down a female and rubbed their genitalia in her face, we wouldn't call that "heterosexual behavior" -- we'd call it assault.

The desire to place one's penis and scrotum on another man's face or have another man put his face on one's anus is not a heterosexual compulsion. It might be if the victim was a woman, and in either case it would be assault, of course.

Neither is it a homosexual one. It is one of dominance and control and not a sexual compulsion.


It's a very gay way of showing dominance.
 
2013-01-26 01:28:45 PM  

Droog8912: Football is expensive to play.


In a supervised game at any school or higher level.
However, all you need is a football and an open field to play and at least an even number of participants.
 
2013-01-26 01:36:37 PM  
So if the coach hangs around the locker room he's a Sandusky, if he doesn't he's guilty of not hanging around the locker room. Is that it?
 
2013-01-26 02:27:12 PM  
The coach is the fall guy. I'm a volunteer hockey coach for the local HS and I throw a kid off my team once every three years due to an attempt to haze. Even if you work at the school as a gym teacher, you would one see the kids during practice, games, and gym period. Otherwise they have a good 6 hours a day together at school where you personally can't monitor them and a lot of them hang out together outside of school. All you can do is react to reports that some dipshiat senior tried to start a hazing tradition.

Unless the coach is leaving them alone in the locker room and going "I won't see anything *wink wink*", he's not letting the hazing happen.
 
2013-01-26 02:27:41 PM  
Like killing endangered animals, the moral of the story is never tell anyone about sexual harassment, rape, and/or abuse that goes on around you. Right?
 
2013-01-26 02:40:56 PM  

ha-ha-guy: The coach is the fall guy. I'm a volunteer hockey coach for the local HS and I throw a kid off my team once every three years due to an attempt to haze. Even if you work at the school as a gym teacher, you would one see the kids during practice, games, and gym period. Otherwise they have a good 6 hours a day together at school where you personally can't monitor them and a lot of them hang out together outside of school. All you can do is react to reports that some dipshiat senior tried to start a hazing tradition.

Unless the coach is leaving them alone in the locker room and going "I won't see anything *wink wink*", he's not letting the hazing happen.


Did you RTFA?

The hazing happened during a period of time when the coach was responsible for them.  It's not like it was a bunch of football players during school pulling a kid into the stairwell and hazing him. It happened during practice time.  The coach isn't a fall guy, the coach is responsible for not having an adequate supervision plan in place.
 
2013-01-26 03:02:31 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Headline is misleading.  He was fired, not for reporting it, he was fired because the school's investigation found that he had improperly supervised his players, making it possible for something like this to go on numerous times.  Had it only been once, when the coaches were dealing with a player injury or something, that's excusable.  The fact that it happened numerous times, while coaches were not around, is not excusable.


I guess he should have been in the showers watching them.
 
2013-01-26 03:13:39 PM  

S.A.S.Q.U.A.T.C.H.: HideAndGoFarkYourself: Headline is misleading.  He was fired, not for reporting it, he was fired because the school's investigation found that he had improperly supervised his players, making it possible for something like this to go on numerous times.  Had it only been once, when the coaches were dealing with a player injury or something, that's excusable.  The fact that it happened numerous times, while coaches were not around, is not excusable.

I guess he should have been in the showers watching them.


The word shower doesn't appear anywhere in the article.  In fact, it specifically says that they always happened on Thursdays when coaches weren't around and that the Varsity players would pull their pants down, indicating that they weren't naked when it was happening. Unless Thursdays are dedicated shower days, and the Varsity players are required to shower with their pants on, this didn't happen in the showers.

Ergo, your point....is pointless.
 
2013-01-26 03:34:56 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: The word shower doesn't appear anywhere in the article.


No, but it says:

He said he reported the hazing very shortly after several freshmen football players reluctantly disclosed to him what had happened to them in a school locker room.

It really doesn't matter whether it happened in the showers or the lockers, the point is, is that these young men are in HS, and shouldn't need a coach watching over them every second. The fact that the coach learned about it, reported it, then was fired for reporting it is just trying to sweep things under the rug.

If you have a boy who plays HS sports, do you want a coach standing there, watching their every move as they change?
 
2013-01-26 07:51:33 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: ha-ha-guy: The coach is the fall guy. I'm a volunteer hockey coach for the local HS and I throw a kid off my team once every three years due to an attempt to haze. Even if you work at the school as a gym teacher, you would one see the kids during practice, games, and gym period. Otherwise they have a good 6 hours a day together at school where you personally can't monitor them and a lot of them hang out together outside of school. All you can do is react to reports that some dipshiat senior tried to start a hazing tradition.

Unless the coach is leaving them alone in the locker room and going "I won't see anything *wink wink*", he's not letting the hazing happen.

Did you RTFA?

The hazing happened during a period of time when the coach was responsible for them.  It's not like it was a bunch of football players during school pulling a kid into the stairwell and hazing him. It happened during practice time.  The coach isn't a fall guy, the coach is responsible for not having an adequate supervision plan in place.


Did you RTFA? It says there was another coach there when it happened, and that coach didn't do anything about it. It's how the guy who got fired found out about the incident in the first place, because the frosh were biatching about the other coach letting that stuff happen.
 
2013-01-26 07:52:53 PM  
I'm really embarrassed that my hometown ends up on Fark. At least I never went to that school.
 
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