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(Stabley Times)   When a TV series ends an on unresolved cliffhanger it alienates viewers from new TV shows, gives rise to reality TV era, brings about end of humanity   (stableytimes.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Thomas Veil, television series, reality shows, cliffhangers, human extinction, UPN, television networks, Fringe  
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4112 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 26 Jan 2013 at 3:40 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-25 08:13:40 PM  
...realty TV era...

www.americanrealtyworld.com
 
2013-01-25 08:25:54 PM  

phlegmmo: ...realty TV era...

[www.americanrealtyworld.com image 230x208]


Typo aside, the article actually brings up a fair point. I rarely watch premieres anymore, because I don't want to actually LIKE something only to see it gone 5 episodes later. I made the mistake of getting hooked on Awake just this past year by doing just that, even though it was clear by the 3rd episode or so the show wasn't going to make it.

It's way easier just to wait a season (or midway through the first season if the show is a runaway success). Then you don't get the unneeded attachment to failures, and in these internet days it's incredibly easy to catch up on any show.
 
2013-01-25 08:30:28 PM  
Still pissed about "My Name Is Earl" subby?
 
2013-01-25 08:31:46 PM  
So, give Now and Again a decent ending, then.

Problem solved.
 
2013-01-25 08:32:05 PM  

Supes: Typo aside, the article actually brings up a fair point. I rarely watch premieres anymore, because I don't want to actually LIKE something only to see it gone 5 episodes later. I made the mistake of getting hooked on Awake just this past year by doing just that, even though it was clear by the 3rd episode or so the show wasn't going to make it.

It's way easier just to wait a season (or midway through the first season if the show is a runaway success). Then you don't get the unneeded attachment to failures, and in these internet days it's incredibly easy to catch up on any show.


Agreed.
 
2013-01-25 08:34:51 PM  

Supes: phlegmmo: ...realty TV era...

[www.americanrealtyworld.com image 230x208]

Typo aside, the article actually brings up a fair point. I rarely watch premieres anymore, because I don't want to actually LIKE something only to see it gone 5 episodes later. I made the mistake of getting hooked on Awake just this past year by doing just that, even though it was clear by the 3rd episode or so the show wasn't going to make it.

It's way easier just to wait a season (or midway through the first season if the show is a runaway success). Then you don't get the unneeded attachment to failures, and in these internet days it's incredibly easy to catch up on any show.


THIS.  I didn't even bother watching the last few episodes of "Last Resort" once they announced the cancellation.  What's the point?
 
2013-01-25 08:40:20 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: Still pissed about "My Name Is Earl" subby?


who's not?
 
2013-01-25 08:55:20 PM  
www.technologytell.com
 
2013-01-25 08:56:00 PM  
I just recently watched "Twin Peaks" on Netflix (so I'm 23 years behind). The lack of a resolution annoyed me but the rest if the show made up for it. Even though Enterprise didn't have a cliffhanger per se, it was just starting to get good when it got canned and I wish it got its 7 seasons like the others (except TOS). I never expected "V" or "The Sarah Connor Chronicles" to last long enough to have a resolution so it didn't bother me.

Of course "Lost" is what happens when a show does reach a resolution so you never know.
 
2013-01-25 08:56:20 PM  
On before an except after ends.
 
2013-01-25 08:56:56 PM  

Supes: Typo aside, the article actually brings up a fair point. I rarely watch premieres anymore, because I don't want to actually LIKE something only to see it gone 5 episodes later. I made the mistake of getting hooked on Awake just this past year by doing just that, even though it was clear by the 3rd episode or so the show wasn't going to make it.

It's way easier just to wait a season (or midway through the first season if the show is a runaway success). Then you don't get the unneeded attachment to failures, and in these internet days it's incredibly easy to catch up on any show.



I do one better: I wait until an entire TV show is finished (to high acclaim) and then grab the box set and watch it all at once... usually one season at a time in marathon weekend sessions. It makes following along the serial format easier and without the aggravation of having to wait a week to find out what happens next. Recently did that with 6 seasons of Dr. Who (up until the end of Rose Tyler). Plan on doing that for Heroes and The Wire next (I'm a little behind).
 
2013-01-25 09:07:00 PM  

Ishkur: Plan on doing that for Heroes and The Wire next (I'm a little behind).



I wouldn't recommend that for Heroes.

Seriously, don't bother.
 
2013-01-25 09:08:10 PM  
i1125.photobucket.com

/Two seasons of awesome, and then the bad guys reams everyone and exits stage left, smiling.
//CAWKSUCKER!!!
///And don't even get me started on Firefly.
////But, I don't know what to say about that show that hasn't already been said.
 
2013-01-25 09:17:42 PM  
asycophantic.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-25 09:19:58 PM  

ArkAngel: [asycophantic.files.wordpress.com image 625x313]


That was smart. Way to paint themselves into a corner if they ever wanted to do a movie. Not that they did but still.
 
2013-01-25 09:43:38 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: It's way easier just to wait a season (or midway through the first season if the show is a runaway success). Then you don't get the unneeded attachment to failures, and in these internet days it's incredibly easy to catch up on any show.

THIS.  I didn't even bother watching the last few episodes of "Last Resort" once they announced the cancellation.  What's the point?


Actually "Last Resort" did get a proper ending, of sorts.

Creators Shawn Ryan and Karl Gajdusek got the call of doom from ABC after writing the episode as though it was just Episode 13 and not the series finale. So the pair got out their erasers and rewrote large chunks of the episode to turn it into the final installment of Last Resort. It's totally shiatty that that had to happen, but given the unforgiving circumstances they faced, I'd say Ryan and Gajdusek did a bang-up job. If nothing else, no one can say "Controlled Flight Into Terrain" was boring.

WARNING: Article contains spoilers.
 
2013-01-25 09:59:50 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: Still pissed about "My Name Is Earl" subby?


Screw subby, I'm still pissed about United States of Tara.
 
2013-01-25 10:03:01 PM  
Millenium
Brimstone
Awake
Alphas
Dresden Files


Why do I keep getting hooked?
 
2013-01-25 10:14:36 PM  
So, maybe have everything end like Seinfeld?

Not every show can have a "Goodbye, Farewell and Amen..."
 
2013-01-25 10:15:47 PM  

NuttierThanEver: Awake


I'm not sure they even had anything in mind for Awake.
 
2013-01-25 10:19:36 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: /Two seasons of awesome, and then the bad guys reams everyone and exits stage left, smiling.
//CAWKSUCKER!!!
///And don't even get me started on Firefly.
////But, I don't know what to say about that show that hasn't already been said.


Fark HBO

/"holy cow! Sofie is the Omeg...cancelled"
 
2013-01-25 10:21:21 PM  

sno man: Screw subby, I'm still pissed about United States of Tara.


The curse of Eddie Izzard.  I'm pissed about that and super pissed about The Riches, which should have run for multiple seasons.
 
2013-01-25 10:22:17 PM  

Mugato: I'm not sure they even had anything in mind for Awake.


I think they had a premise, and that's about it.
 
2013-01-25 10:26:10 PM  

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: Mugato: I'm not sure they even had anything in mind for Awake.

I think they had a premise, and that's about it.


Sort of like Lost. But Alcatraz didn't even seem to have a premise.
 
2013-01-25 10:27:44 PM  
I'm still angry about Alien Nation.
 
2013-01-25 10:30:09 PM  

serpent_sky: sno man: Screw subby, I'm still pissed about United States of Tara.

The curse of Eddie Izzard.  I'm pissed about that and super pissed about The Riches, which should have run for multiple seasons.


That Munsters re-do falls into that Eddy Izzard curse too...
 
2013-01-25 10:35:41 PM  

Mugato: Sort of like Lost. But Alcatraz didn't even seem to have a premise.


Lost tried to juggle more than it could keep in the air.

Alcatraz had... well... Alcatraz, I guess.
 
2013-01-25 10:37:30 PM  

sno man: That Munsters re-do falls into that Eddy Izzard curse too...


I never saw it... I didn't even know it actually aired.  I'm not 100% sure that counts, since it didn't seem to have the following United States of Tara and The Riches had.
 
2013-01-25 10:38:33 PM  

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: Mugato: I'm not sure they even had anything in mind for Awake.

I think they had a premise, and that's about it.


Yeah but his performance was just awesome.
Would love if the US shows could be written more like good UK ones with a definete story arc and ending in mind from the get go
 
2013-01-25 10:38:40 PM  

Ishkur: Plan on doing that for Heroes


Honestly just watch season 1. It does end on a semi-cliffhanger, yes, but season 2 sucked so hard it's better to just create whatever ending you want in your head.
 
2013-01-25 10:40:28 PM  
"So tell me, ABC, CBS, NBC, and yes, you too, Fox do you really want that on your conscious?"


*rapid left eye twitch*
 
2013-01-25 10:44:46 PM  

NuttierThanEver: Yeah but his performance was just awesome.


Oh, Jason Isaacs is boss. Really dug his work in The Patriot.


NuttierThanEver: Would love if the US shows could be written more like good UK ones with a definete story arc and ending in mind from the get go


I hear ya on that, aye.

Incidentally, one of my favorite series is a BBC show that ended on a FRUSTRATING cliffhanger: 2008's Survivors.
 
2013-01-25 10:46:28 PM  

serpent_sky: sno man: That Munsters re-do falls into that Eddy Izzard curse too...

I never saw it... I didn't even know it actually aired.  I'm not 100% sure that counts, since it didn't seem to have the following United States of Tara and The Riches had.


I think it (the pilot) aired around Halloween, I saw it online, it wasn't all that bad, but it was not Munsters even a little.
 
2013-01-25 10:46:30 PM  
Well, the way they make shows is, they make one show. That show's called a pilot. Then they show that show to the people who make shows, and on the strength of that one show they decide if they're going to make more shows. Some pilots get picked and become television programs.
Addendum-- Some of the picked shows find a following and develop into a series where the general viewing population becomes invested in the completion of the serial. Others don't. The blogger is pissed about the ones that don't.
 
2013-01-25 10:46:43 PM  

NuttierThanEver: Millenium
Brimstone
Awake
Alphas
Dresden Files


Why do I keep getting hooked?


I've only heard of one of those, and then from the books.

Moral of the story: TV execs are the worst people in the world to run a TV station for product quality. They're there to turn dimes, not change lives.

Artists, on the other hand, are usually the worst people in the world to make money. They can produce good product, but their ability to stay on budget is often low. Take, for example, Terry Gilliam.
 
2013-01-25 10:46:50 PM  

NuttierThanEver: Would love if the US shows could be written more like good UK ones with a definete story arc and ending in mind from the get go


The problem with that is that if a show still has the ratings and they can still afford the cast, they'll go on long after their logical conclusion. Supernatural for example, should have ended after they prevented Armageddon and stopped Lucifer and Michael. But since they still have the numbers and it's almost impossible for a show on the CW to get canceled, it'll go on forever.

You Brits should talk. Dr. Who's been on for like 50 years. At least the 3 Star Trek shows that made it to 7 years quit while they were somewhat on top.
 
2013-01-25 10:51:36 PM  

Mugato: The problem with that is that if a show still has the ratings and they can still afford the cast, they'll go on long after their logical conclusion.


You just described Prison Break in a nutshell. Show was designed to be a mini-series that lasted 13(?) episodes. It was so popular they extended the mini-series to a full season, then three more seasons following.
 
2013-01-25 11:17:07 PM  
Farscape.

OK, so we had a tv movie, but still...
 
2013-01-25 11:39:43 PM  
www.wikinoticia.com

Does not approve
 
2013-01-26 12:30:45 AM  
Yeah yeah yeah, I wanted to know what happened to Alf too, but I got over it 20 years ago. (And no, I don't consider Project ALF to be canon).
 
2013-01-26 12:49:17 AM  
Don't get me started on Carnivale.
 
2013-01-26 01:19:29 AM  
I'm still pissed about Duckman ending on a cliffhanger.

I'm also pissed off about Sliders. Not just how Siffy ended it on a cliffhanger, but how they and Fox ruined the show by putting hacks in charge and by being scared of anything but movie of the week world.
 
2013-01-26 01:19:54 AM  

TheXerox: Farscape.

OK, so we had a tv movie, but still...


FFS
be fair, after the end of season 4, you wanted to kill yourself for them canceling the show.
the tv movie was an EPIC conclusion and avoided having season 5 filled with tons of filler episodes.

I have basically stopped watching new series until they have been canceled. I am DONE with getting screwed. Sarah Connor Chronicles anyone?

Just rewatched Firefly. And I LOVE that show. But. Where would it have gone? How many more episodes of robberies/jobs gone bad, unable to sell the loot, getting screwed, narrow escapes could we really have been interested in? 1 full season?
tons of back story flashbacks to fill in Book and at some point, I am not sure how long the stories could have kept us going. Would have been NICE to have been proved wrong, but still.

B5 got to wrap everything up nicely at the end of season 4, only to be renewed for the abortion of season 5.

At least West Wing got properly canceled at the end of season 4, rather than have some HACKS at network continue without Sorkin.


BUT, reality shows instead???? HAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
I can rewatch a million diff series which are done instead.
 
2013-01-26 01:25:56 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: I'm still pissed about Duckman ending on a cliffhanger.

I'm also pissed off about Sliders. Not just how Siffy ended it on a cliffhanger, but how they and Fox ruined the show by putting hacks in charge and by being scared of anything but movie of the week world.


wait what?!! Duckman was canceled??? sigh
no wait, everytime I try to rewatch it, I give up before I get to the end. I love the show. I love the never ending death of your fluffy and uranus, but still.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8xp8BQxftE
 
2013-01-26 01:37:48 AM  

namatad: B5 got to wrap everything up nicely at the end of season 4, only to be renewed for the abortion of season 5.


B5 was originally planned in the beginning to be a 5 season arc. It was prewritten that way.

When JMS heard it was being cancelled a year early, he had to scramble to shoehorn all of season 5's major plot points into the final eps of season 4 to finish the show organically. And then later the suits decided to renew it for a 5th season anyway, so he had to come up with a new storyline which is why season 4 feels rushed but final and season 5 feels tacked on and utter crap.
 
2013-01-26 02:22:12 AM  

AdolfOliverPanties: I didn't even bother watching the last few episodes of "Last Resort" once they announced the cancellation. What's the point?


"Last Resort" was given a chance to come up with a semi clean series end after it was canceled. I don't know if it worked or not since I haven't yet seen the last few episodes.
 
2013-01-26 02:23:17 AM  

Itchy Feets: I'm still angry about Alien Nation.


This This This^^^^^!
 
2013-01-26 02:37:24 AM  

Ishkur: namatad: B5 got to wrap everything up nicely at the end of season 4, only to be renewed for the abortion of season 5.

B5 was originally planned in the beginning to be a 5 season arc. It was prewritten that way.

When JMS heard it was being cancelled a year early, he had to scramble to shoehorn all of season 5's major plot points into the final eps of season 4 to finish the show organically. And then later the suits decided to renew it for a 5th season anyway, so he had to come up with a new storyline which is why season 4 feels rushed but final and season 5 feels tacked on and utter crap.


yes, I know all this.
actually, a lot of season 5 had been removed from the season 4/5 arc. 
The psi war and shadow war would have been interleaved.
But once the shadow war was over, season 5 became almost "trivial"
YAWNNN ... ok, we jsut fought this amazing good vs evil ... but now we have to deal with the tards back home ... yawn

alas I used renewed as short cut for "canceled and then renewed"
 
2013-01-26 04:06:15 AM  
Want to know what alienates viewers? Mid-season breaks. Take one week off here, three here, three months here (not the summer break, mind you, mid-prime time season), shuffle the time slot for good measure. Stop that! There are a number of shows I was interested in and just never went back after checking in for a few weeks and not seeing a new episode for no reason. If you insist on making 23 episodes, show them consistently, in order, no weird weeks off, and then repeat. How hard is that?
 
2013-01-26 04:19:16 AM  
Conscience!
 
2013-01-26 04:22:35 AM  

Philbb: AdolfOliverPanties: I didn't even bother watching the last few episodes of "Last Resort" once they announced the cancellation. What's the point?

"Last Resort" was given a chance to come up with a semi clean series end after it was canceled. I don't know if it worked or not since I haven't yet seen the last few episodes.


It was obviously a hasty ending to tie things up but the basic premise led to that being doable from the start, (for a submarine based series, being destroyed is an easy game over situation). I didn't see it going past a season anyway without it getting into Lost territory so 13 vs 24 episodes is not too bad really.

I had my own issues with the series but that had to do with the setting and how things actually work more than the plot if I suspended disbelief on my own experience.

/the CO does not have a general alarm switch in his stateroom for starters
 
2013-01-26 04:39:21 AM  

Supes: phlegmmo: ...realty TV era...

[www.americanrealtyworld.com image 230x208]

Typo aside, the article actually brings up a fair point. I rarely watch premieres anymore, because I don't want to actually LIKE something only to see it gone 5 episodes later. I made the mistake of getting hooked on Awake just this past year by doing just that, even though it was clear by the 3rd episode or so the show wasn't going to make it.

It's way easier just to wait a season (or midway through the first season if the show is a runaway success). Then you don't get the unneeded attachment to failures, and in these internet days it's incredibly easy to catch up on any show.


...y'know what shows survive to midseason? Sitcoms. Procedurals. Formulaic shows which have been proven to work, and thus get a longer leash. Shows on cable channels, which have a much lower threshold of success than on a network. Face it: Burn Notice, Suits, Psych, Homeland, Californication, The Walking Dead, even Weeds would all have not even gotten one full season had they been put on a network. Meanwhile, shows like Firefly, Dark Angel, et al probably would have gotten quite a few more seasons had they started on a cable channel first. Just take a look at two "salvaged" network shows: Southland and Cougartown. On NBC, Southland was pulling 7.0 ratings...not good enough on Thursday nights. But on TNT, pulling 2.5 million viewers makes it a hit. For Cougar Town, 1.3 million viewers on TBS makes it "solid" (if unspectacular, even for cable), while three times that amount is why it got canned from ABC in the first place.

In short, TV networks are trying to stay generalized in a niche world, and they're losing the battle. So are cable channels which should be niches, but try to generalize (lookin' at you, Syfy). Meanwhile, the only way to stay competitive and generalized is to not take huge risks, cut costs, and be quick with the plug on something that's expensive. Thus, cookie-cutter procedurals and sitcoms that re-use sets, and reality teevee where the hosts' paychecks, while very large, don't even come close to that of what five or six actors would make over a season's worth of a mid-level show.  And those that wait to hook onto shows they think are good have nothing to hook onto.
 
2013-01-26 04:45:13 AM  

Mugato: NuttierThanEver: Would love if the US shows could be written more like good UK ones with a definete story arc and ending in mind from the get go

The problem with that is that if a show still has the ratings and they can still afford the cast, they'll go on long after their logical conclusion. Supernatural for example, should have ended after they prevented Armageddon and stopped Lucifer and Michael. But since they still have the numbers and it's almost impossible for a show on the CW to get canceled, it'll go on forever.

You Brits should talk. Dr. Who's been on for like 50 years. At least the 3 Star Trek shows that made it to 7 years quit while they were somewhat on top.


People seem to forget, but Doctor Who is a KIDS SHOW! Yes it is written well so that all ages can enjoy it, but the original intent is to be a show that is scary and exciting for children.

Plus the great thing about Who is that if the show starts going south, like it did with Tennant, the bosses can can it, rehire the main character and a new director and start over without having to worry about continuity.
 
2013-01-26 05:45:20 AM  

Itchy Feets: I'm still angry about Alien Nation.


They had like 4-5 tv movies after the series. Was the last one a cliffhanger?

Was thoroughly pissed at them canceling "Nowhere Man". Hadn't thought about the show in years...
 
2013-01-26 06:02:41 AM  

Girion47: Mugato: NuttierThanEver: Would love if the US shows could be written more like good UK ones with a definete story arc and ending in mind from the get go

The problem with that is that if a show still has the ratings and they can still afford the cast, they'll go on long after their logical conclusion. Supernatural for example, should have ended after they prevented Armageddon and stopped Lucifer and Michael. But since they still have the numbers and it's almost impossible for a show on the CW to get canceled, it'll go on forever.

You Brits should talk. Dr. Who's been on for like 50 years. At least the 3 Star Trek shows that made it to 7 years quit while they were somewhat on top.

People seem to forget, but Doctor Who is a KIDS SHOW! Yes it is written well so that all ages can enjoy it, but the original intent is to be a show that is scary and exciting for children.

Plus the great thing about Who is that if the show starts going south, like it did with Tennant, the bosses can can it, rehire the main character and a new director and start over without having to worry about continuity.


It's not a "KIDS SHOW!" it's a Family show.
 
2013-01-26 06:17:50 AM  

Jorn the Younger: Girion47: Mugato: NuttierThanEver: Would love if the US shows could be written more like good UK ones with a definete story arc and ending in mind from the get go

The problem with that is that if a show still has the ratings and they can still afford the cast, they'll go on long after their logical conclusion. Supernatural for example, should have ended after they prevented Armageddon and stopped Lucifer and Michael. But since they still have the numbers and it's almost impossible for a show on the CW to get canceled, it'll go on forever.

You Brits should talk. Dr. Who's been on for like 50 years. At least the 3 Star Trek shows that made it to 7 years quit while they were somewhat on top.

People seem to forget, but Doctor Who is a KIDS SHOW! Yes it is written well so that all ages can enjoy it, but the original intent is to be a show that is scary and exciting for children.

Plus the great thing about Who is that if the show starts going south, like it did with Tennant, the bosses can can it, rehire the main character and a new director and start over without having to worry about continuity.

It's not a "KIDS SHOW!" it's a Family show.


In reference to Doctor Who, Steve 'Little Miss' Moffat has stated that it is a children's show adults can enjoy. On Richard Bacon's Radio 5 show he said:

"Everyone by the end of the opening music is a kid! It is watched by more adults than kids, but there is something at its heart, which belongs to children. All the best stuff is children's. You look at a risotto on a menu and you see the children's menu and there's sausage and chips. All the good stuff belongs to children."

Link
 
2013-01-26 06:29:35 AM  
Dear Liz Lemon: While other women have bigger boobs than you, no other woman has as big a heart. When I saw you getting ready to go out and get nailed by a bunch of guys last night, I knew for sure it was over between us, and for the first time since the '86 World Series, I cried... I cried like a big, dumb homo. And if it was up to me, we'd be together forever. But there's a new thing called "women's liberation", which gives you women the right to choose and you have chosen to abort me, and that I must live with. So tonight, when you arrive home, I'll be gone. I officially renounce my squatter's rights.
 
2013-01-26 07:00:02 AM  
I guess a lot of the problem is they do all the filming before the network decides whether or not to continue the series. And, once the network says "it's done," they don't want to spring for the cost to reshoot an episode that brings the story(ies) to an end.
 
2013-01-26 07:11:20 AM  
I want all writers of TV shows to include a clause in their contracts with the network:

"If the network decides to cancel airing of this show, or decides it will not renew this show for an additional season, it will provide notice to the production staff prior to the beginning of taping of the intended final episode. If this is not possible, the network will pay in full for an additional episode to be written and filmed, including costs associated with procuring the necessary actors, writing and production staff, sets, etc."

It'd take a revolution practically, but that's what I'd like to see. I get that when a show is not producing ratings it needs to be removed, but don't leave us f%$#ing hanging guys.
 
2013-01-26 07:21:29 AM  
lets see.... mine have all been said already but....

CArnivale- season 2 was a bit of a stretch
My name is Earl- Awful cliff hanger
Farscape- I could have kept watching for at least one more season.
Firefly- Fox really screwed the pooch on that one

everything else is just cannon fodder to me since then...
 
2013-01-26 07:24:53 AM  

gadian: Want to know what alienates viewers? Mid-season breaks. Take one week off here, three here, three months here (not the summer break, mind you, mid-prime time season), shuffle the time slot for good measure. Stop that! There are a number of shows I was interested in and just never went back after checking in for a few weeks and not seeing a new episode for no reason. If you insist on making 23 episodes, show them consistently, in order, no weird weeks off, and then repeat. How hard is that?


That's almost as bad as those short season shows that only get 12 or 13 episodes a year. By the time they air again (9 months later) you've completely forgotten what was going on last season.
 
2013-01-26 07:25:02 AM  

yukichigai: I want all writers of TV shows to include a clause in their contracts with the network:

[snip]


Yeah, I'd like that, too. It's gotta be maddening as a writer to try to keep the drama and suspense up, then get told you won't have the chance to resolve any of the issues.
 
2013-01-26 07:30:58 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: I'm still pissed about Duckman ending on a cliffhanger.

I'm also pissed off about Sliders. Not just how Siffy ended it on a cliffhanger, but how they and Fox ruined the show by putting hacks in charge and by being scared of anything but movie of the week world.


Once they strayed from the "What if?" premise and replaced Wade with an uppity skank, it all went downhill. Killing off Arturo was like watching the shark jump a pile of dead sharks.
 
2013-01-26 07:36:36 AM  

gadian: Want to know what alienates viewers? Mid-season breaks. Take one week off here, three here, three months here (not the summer break, mind you, mid-prime time season), shuffle the time slot for good measure. Stop that! There are a number of shows I was interested in and just never went back after checking in for a few weeks and not seeing a new episode for no reason. If you insist on making 23 episodes, show them consistently, in order, no weird weeks off, and then repeat. How hard is that?


Even worse are the shows that give you half a season, then go on hiatus for six months or more. Nothing more than a lame excuse to split one season into two DVD/BR box sets. You already have the whole cast and crew together, so just film the whole f*cking season already!
 
2013-01-26 07:37:54 AM  

Girion47: Jorn the Younger: Girion47: Mugato: NuttierThanEver: Would love if the US shows could be written more like good UK ones with a definete story arc and ending in mind from the get go

The problem with that is that if a show still has the ratings and they can still afford the cast, they'll go on long after their logical conclusion. Supernatural for example, should have ended after they prevented Armageddon and stopped Lucifer and Michael. But since they still have the numbers and it's almost impossible for a show on the CW to get canceled, it'll go on forever.

You Brits should talk. Dr. Who's been on for like 50 years. At least the 3 Star Trek shows that made it to 7 years quit while they were somewhat on top.

People seem to forget, but Doctor Who is a KIDS SHOW! Yes it is written well so that all ages can enjoy it, but the original intent is to be a show that is scary and exciting for children.

Plus the great thing about Who is that if the show starts going south, like it did with Tennant, the bosses can can it, rehire the main character and a new director and start over without having to worry about continuity.

It's not a "KIDS SHOW!" it's a Family show.

In reference to Doctor Who, Steve 'Little Miss' Moffat has stated that it is a children's show adults can enjoy. On Richard Bacon's Radio 5 show he said:

"Everyone by the end of the opening music is a kid! It is watched by more adults than kids, but there is something at its heart, which belongs to children. All the best stuff is children's. You look at a risotto on a menu and you see the children's menu and there's sausage and chips. All the good stuff belongs to children."

Link


Yes. Made for everyone, children, and adults who are children at heart. That's why it's a family show.

Kids shows are shows kids watch, that hold no interest for adults.
Family shows are shows that kids watch, that also appeal to and entertain adults.

/used to work in a video store
 
2013-01-26 07:43:47 AM  
Since it hasn't been mentioned, WTF did SyFy do with Sanctuary?! That show had developed pretty nicely, big stuff going on, and then bzzzt.

Also, "The IT Crowd"! OK, sure, not a massive serialized epic, but goddammit!
 
2013-01-26 07:48:10 AM  

ReapTheChaos: gadian: Want to know what alienates viewers? Mid-season breaks. Take one week off here, three here, three months here (not the summer break, mind you, mid-prime time season), shuffle the time slot for good measure. Stop that! There are a number of shows I was interested in and just never went back after checking in for a few weeks and not seeing a new episode for no reason. If you insist on making 23 episodes, show them consistently, in order, no weird weeks off, and then repeat. How hard is that?

That's almost as bad as those short season shows that only get 12 or 13 episodes a year. By the time they air again (9 months later) you've completely forgotten what was going on last season.


The short seasons have been some of the best programming that I've seen. Battlestar's first season and the regular seasons of Breaking Bad were both around a dozen. I think it's better for on-going story driven series to be allowed a shorter format. Their writers don't have to create fluff to draw out seasons, letting them focus on the main storyline.

Of course it's a pain when you have to wait most of the year for the series. My solution has been to latch onto a few series I enjoy. Breaking Bad, True Blood, Mad Men.

/unfortunately, they all air around the same few months of the year.
 
2013-01-26 08:16:57 AM  

vrax: Since it hasn't been mentioned, WTF did SyFy do with Sanctuary?! That show had developed pretty nicely, big stuff going on, and then bzzzt.

Also, "The IT Crowd"! OK, sure, not a massive serialized epic, but goddammit!


I heard it got canned, along with Alphas.

DAMN YOU SYFY CHANNEL! YOU BLEW IT ALL TO HELL!
 
2013-01-26 08:19:22 AM  

fusillade762: AdolfOliverPanties: It's way easier just to wait a season (or midway through the first season if the show is a runaway success). Then you don't get the unneeded attachment to failures, and in these internet days it's incredibly easy to catch up on any show.

THIS.  I didn't even bother watching the last few episodes of "Last Resort" once they announced the cancellation.  What's the point?

Actually "Last Resort" did get a proper ending, of sorts.

Creators Shawn Ryan and Karl Gajdusek got the call of doom from ABC after writing the episode as though it was just Episode 13 and not the series finale. So the pair got out their erasers and rewrote large chunks of the episode to turn it into the final installment of Last Resort. It's totally shiatty that that had to happen, but given the unforgiving circumstances they faced, I'd say Ryan and Gajdusek did a bang-up job. If nothing else, no one can say "Controlled Flight Into Terrain" was boring.

WARNING: Article contains spoilers.


I never watched the show, but I'm glad they did that instead of trying to force the network's hand by writing in a 'fk you' cliffhanger. More American shows need to follow suit.
 
2013-01-26 08:24:12 AM  

dugitman: Well, the way they make shows is, they make one show. That show's called a pilot. Then they show that show to the people who make shows, and on the strength of that one show they decide if they're going to make more shows. Some pilots get picked and become television programs.
Addendum-- Some of the picked shows find a following and develop into a series where the general viewing population becomes invested in the completion of the serial. Others don't. The blogger is pissed about the ones that don't.


see also: No Ordinary Family .. which found its audience after the show was cancelled. The curse of netflix and DVDs :( Sometimes you don't find the real gems until it's far, far too late.
 
2013-01-26 08:39:54 AM  
My husband and I finally got around to watching the first season of the BBC's Sherlock. People have been bugging us for years to watch it, but with two little kids (and one tv), it's really hard to catch adult tv shows (not that I'm complaining, I never was a big tv watcher). We loved it, and ordered the second season right away. The only show that we catch as it runs is Game if Thrones, because it comes on after the kids go to bed; and if we miss it, we can catch it on demand.
 
2013-01-26 08:40:51 AM  
I'm showing my age here but I'm pissed we never found out who won the election on Benson. It was Governor Gatling vs Benson vs some other guy and the episode/series ended with Benson and Gatling holding hands (not in a gay way) about to see the results. And that was it.
 
2013-01-26 08:49:41 AM  

Tsar_Bomba1: Itchy Feets: I'm still angry about Alien Nation.

They had like 4-5 tv movies after the series. Was the last one a cliffhanger?

Was thoroughly pissed at them canceling "Nowhere Man". Hadn't thought about the show in years...


The series was one season and ended on a cliffhanger. They did end up making some TV movies and mini-series, but it's not the same, ya know?
 
2013-01-26 08:56:10 AM  

Mugato: I'm showing my age here but I'm pissed we never found out who won the election on Benson. It was Governor Gatling vs Benson vs some other guy and the episode/series ended with Benson and Gatling holding hands (not in a gay way) about to see the results. And that was it.


President Reagan mercy-nuked the country to death before the final results were tabulated. Sorry to burst your bubble.
 
2013-01-26 08:57:29 AM  
Journeyman is the first show that pops in my mind when I think of shows cancelled too soon. Others are: Earth 2, Space Above and Beyond, Enterprise, Alien Nation, Chicago Hope, and Chicago Code. (Must be bad luck to have Chicago in the title)
 
2013-01-26 09:01:53 AM  
You know what's worse than not wrapping up a series before it ends?

The final episode of "Lost".
 
2013-01-26 09:13:08 AM  

pladius: Journeyman is the first show that pops in my mind when I think of shows cancelled too soon. Others are: Earth 2, Space Above and Beyond, Enterprise, Alien Nation, Chicago Hope, and Chicago Code. (Must be bad luck to have Chicago in the title)


Was going to mention Journeyman, too. Forgot about S:A&B sadly.
 
2013-01-26 09:26:00 AM  
I'm still pissed about SGU.
 
2013-01-26 09:30:30 AM  

pladius: Journeyman is the first show that pops in my mind when I think of shows cancelled too soon. Others are: Earth 2, Space Above and Beyond, Enterprise, Alien Nation, Chicago Hope, and Chicago Code. (Must be bad luck to have Chicago in the title)


You have to admit, though, that The Chicago Code had a pretty badass ending. Terriers, too, could have gone longer but serves perfectly well as a miniseries.
 
2013-01-26 09:44:17 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: see also: No Ordinary Family .. which found its audience after the show was cancelled. The curse of netflix and DVDs :( Sometimes you don't find the real gems until it's far, far too late.


wait, No Ordinary Family has a following now? I thought it was crap that only benefited from having a good cast.
 
2013-01-26 09:46:09 AM  
I'm glad that Lost Resort at least got enough notice to wrap up its storyline. It was a very quick epilogue that showed they probably had enough material to finish a full season, but at least there wasn't any sort of cliffhanger. Overall, the show would have made a great single-season series, if it had been planned that way from the start.

It was similar to the wrap-up of Pushing Daisies, which was cancelled way too soon. At least they were able to tack on an epilogue to the final episode to bring it to some sort of closure.

Speaking of unresolved cliffhangers, what about Babylong 5: Crusade? Sure, the show was terrible, but they never even bothered wrapping up the plot. Even though they had at least one TV movie after the series was over, they ignored the fact that the entirety of Earth was doomed to die.
 
2013-01-26 10:08:12 AM  
Subby hasn't seen the trailer to this yet.

www.aceshowbiz.com

Lindsay Lohan for the win...
 
2013-01-26 10:23:27 AM  
I'm still mad about the way they ended Forever Knight... with Lacroix about to stake Nick! That was just not nice to the fans! :( They knew the series wasn't ever coming back, why not end it the way it was originally written to be ended - with everyone dying and Lacroix going up to the roof to burn in the morning sun... would have been better closure.
 
2013-01-26 10:39:41 AM  

WhippingBoy: You know what's worse than not wrapping up a series before it ends?

The final episode of "Lost".


"Lost"'s finale was far more compelling than that of The Sopra-
 
2013-01-26 10:43:04 AM  
I get pissed off by science fiction shows that hit their stride, only to be canned.

Stargate Universe, Sarah Conner Chronicles, Enterprise....

Grrrrr...
 
2013-01-26 10:58:31 AM  

BullBearMS: I get pissed off by science fiction shows that hit their stride, only to be canned.

Stargate Universe, Sarah Conner Chronicles, Enterprise....

Grrrrr...


...and Sliders, The 4400, Alphas, Tower Prep, Kyle XY, No Ordinary Family, V...
 
2013-01-26 11:04:44 AM  
Nowhere Man really didn't end on a true cliffhanger - it answered a lot of questions, and left a few open. Of course, answering those questions raised new ones, but I was pretty satisfied.
 
2013-01-26 11:11:12 AM  

FuryOfFirestorm: BullBearMS: I get pissed off by science fiction shows that hit their stride, only to be canned.

Stargate Universe, Sarah Conner Chronicles, Enterprise....

Grrrrr...

...and Sliders, The 4400, Alphas, Tower Prep, Kyle XY, No Ordinary Family, V...


and Eureka....

The thing is, the networks for supposedly being run by smart people are pretty fraking stupid.

They wail and moan that nobody is watching serialized dramas with long story arcs....and yet when they have a serialized drama with a long story arc, that isn't bringing in as many viewers as they think they should be getting, they can it. Leading the viewers to not watch the next one because...fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
 
2013-01-26 11:17:31 AM  

FuryOfFirestorm: BullBearMS: I get pissed off by science fiction shows that hit their stride, only to be canned.

Stargate Universe, Sarah Conner Chronicles, Enterprise....

Grrrrr...

...and Sliders, The 4400, Alphas, Tower Prep, Kyle XY, No Ordinary Family, V...


Okay, I'm going to have to stop you there. I love Sliders. The first two and a half seasons were great, but it was not cancelled in its prime. Season four was terrible, and season five was abysmal.

BizarreMan: and Eureka....


I am also a huge fan of Eureka, but it was beginning to go downhill. Everything since the timeline shift was a bit underwhelming. Almost every case of the week ended up being world-threatening and the Felicia Day arc was way too much of a focus for what seemed like half a season. One more season of the show might have still been good, but the show had a good run of episodes and I'm fine with when it ended.

Personally, I am incredibly disappointed that Alphas got canned. It was excellent, but it was enjoyable and still one of the few new Sci-Fi shows on Syfy.
 
2013-01-26 11:27:05 AM  

FuryOfFirestorm: BullBearMS: I get pissed off by science fiction shows that hit their stride, only to be canned.

Stargate Universe, Sarah Conner Chronicles, Enterprise....

Grrrrr...

...and Sliders, The 4400, Alphas, Tower Prep, Kyle XY, No Ordinary Family, V...


I haven't seen all of those, but Sliders went at least two years too long. There are about a million reasons that show went wrong, but to say it was "hitting its stride" in season five would be a gross misrepresentation of that show.

No Ordinary Family was okay, and I really liked the storyline with Autumn Reeser's character, but that final fight scene may have been the worst thing ever filmed. I was honestly ready for that show to go after that scene.

V was only "hitting its stride" in the sense that they had finally killed off all the annoying characters. They might have been able to do some more interesting things later, but I think it had its run.

BizarreMan:

and Eureka....


I really like Eureka, but that show had the frustrating habit of rebooting the show anytime things started to get really interesting. They probably could have gone on longer, but that's another show that probably ended at a good time.


The thing is, the networks for supposedly being run by smart people are pretty fraking stupid.

They wail and moan that nobody is watching serialized dramas with long story arcs....and yet when they have a serialized drama with a long story arc, that isn't bringing in as many viewers as they think they should be getting, they can it. Leading the viewers to not watch the next one because...fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.


I honestly don't understand this attitude. Television shows aren't like books or movies. With the possible exception of Game of Thrones, they're episodic in nature so that each episode can be viewed on its own, independent of the rest, even in a serialized show. The example I always use is Lost. That pilot is an awesome piece of television and I go back and watch it on its own every now and then. If Lost had been canceled after its first season, would that have made the show any less worth watching? If a show is really that good, closure should be a bonus, the cherry on top at the end of a great ride. And most of the time, when we do get closure, it just end up pissing off a lot of viewers anway. When's the last time a long-running show that got to end things on its own terms had a finale air to universal acclaim? Lost, Battlestar Galactica, The Sopranos, Chuck, Fringe all pissed off some segments of the fanbase to varying degrees.
 
2013-01-26 11:31:06 AM  

rugman11: When's the last time a long-running show that got to end things on its own terms had a finale air to universal acclaim? Lost, Battlestar Galactica, The Sopranos, Chuck, Fringe all pissed off some segments of the fanbase to varying degrees.


Star Trek: TNG had a pretty universally liked finale. Of course, that was an almost purely episodic show. Serialized shows with finales? I don't think there's a way to have one without pissing off a large number of the fans. Maybe Babylon 5, if you ignore the rest of the season 5 episodes?
 
2013-01-26 11:57:12 AM  

Supes: phlegmmo: ...realty TV era...

[www.americanrealtyworld.com image 230x208]

Typo aside, the article actually brings up a fair point. I rarely watch premieres anymore, because I don't want to actually LIKE something only to see it gone 5 episodes later. I made the mistake of getting hooked on Awake just this past year by doing just that, even though it was clear by the 3rd episode or so the show wasn't going to make it.

It's way easier just to wait a season (or midway through the first season if the show is a runaway success). Then you don't get the unneeded attachment to failures, and in these internet days it's incredibly easy to catch up on any show.


This is why I only started watching Breaking Bad this year.
 
2013-01-26 12:16:57 PM  
No mention of Soap?? I randomly stumbled on a marathon Comedy Central was airing for this show like 15 years ago and got completely hooked. I watched every episode over the course of the weekend but then thought I must've missed the damn finale somehow. It wasn't until way later that I found out the series ended on a cliffhanger. Sonofabiatch! Did Jessica die? What happened to Burt??? Come on!
 
2013-01-26 12:21:08 PM  

NeoCortex42: Speaking of unresolved cliffhangers, what about Babylong 5: Crusade? Sure, the show was terrible, but they never even bothered wrapping up the plot. Even though they had at least one TV movie after the series was over, they ignored the fact that the entirety of Earth was doomed to die.


No, they didn't. The finale of Babylon 5 shows that Earth is just fine and dandy some 17-18 years after the Shadow War, and some 12 or so years after the Drahk attacked. Also in the episode "Deconstruction of Falling Stars" at the end, Delenn's epilogue states that they "won the Drakh War." So it was a foregone conclusion that somehow a cure to the Drakh plague would be found. As with B5, the series was never going to be about the Drakh plague itself, rather the search for it would uncover the core part of the story. It would be the equivalent of in B5 thinking that the Raiders were the central enemy after a few episodes.

Words from JMS were that the core part of the story would likely deal with leftover Shadow tech from the war, and deal more and more with the Technomages. There was a series of books who delt with them, but the overall ideas that Crusade was to reveal were never brought to light to my knowledge. But it was never going to just be about the Drakh Plague. It was another 5 year arc.
 
2013-01-26 12:27:11 PM  

NeoCortex42: Star Trek: TNG had a pretty universally liked finale. Of course, that was an almost purely episodic show. Serialized shows with finales? I don't think there's a way to have one without pissing off a large number of the fans. Maybe Babylon 5, if you ignore the rest of the season 5 episodes?


See, I'm one of the few I guess who liked Season 5 of B5. Granted, many of the plot points that were meant for Season 5 were condensed into Season 4 when they thought the P-Ten network was going under and there wouldn't be a Season 5 (TNT bought and saved them at the 11th hour). I heard that Season 4 was originally supposed to end with Sheridan's capture and interrogation, but that Season 5 would start off trying to resolve the Earth conflict by mid-season, and leave the rest as "empire building" with the Telepath crisis and other issues dealing with the new Alliance....and of course Centauri Prime. However when they forced the Earth stuff all into Season 4, it didn't leave a ton for Season 5, but what we did get I thought was good. Some of the best Londo/G'Kar stuff in the entire series, the struggles of setting up a new alliance/government, and a great 4-5 episode wind-down of the show. I really enjoyed Season 5 (well, except maybe Bryon, but I'll admit his character was well portrayed and necessary, he was just as annoying as he probably should be).
 
2013-01-26 12:29:29 PM  

neurodoclove: No mention of Soap?? I randomly stumbled on a marathon Comedy Central was airing for this show like 15 years ago and got completely hooked. I watched every episode over the course of the weekend but then thought I must've missed the damn finale somehow. It wasn't until way later that I found out the series ended on a cliffhanger. Sonofabiatch! Did Jessica die? What happened to Burt??? Come on!


THIS!
 
2013-01-26 01:03:08 PM  

recoil47: NeoCortex42: Speaking of unresolved cliffhangers, what about Babylong 5: Crusade? Sure, the show was terrible, but they never even bothered wrapping up the plot. Even though they had at least one TV movie after the series was over, they ignored the fact that the entirety of Earth was doomed to die.

No, they didn't. The finale of Babylon 5 shows that Earth is just fine and dandy some 17-18 years after the Shadow War, and some 12 or so years after the Drahk attacked. Also in the episode "Deconstruction of Falling Stars" at the end, Delenn's epilogue states that they "won the Drakh War." So it was a foregone conclusion that somehow a cure to the Drakh plague would be found. As with B5, the series was never going to be about the Drakh plague itself, rather the search for it would uncover the core part of the story. It would be the equivalent of in B5 thinking that the Raiders were the central enemy after a few episodes.

Words from JMS were that the core part of the story would likely deal with leftover Shadow tech from the war, and deal more and more with the Technomages. There was a series of books who delt with them, but the overall ideas that Crusade was to reveal were never brought to light to my knowledge. But it was never going to just be about the Drakh Plague. It was another 5 year arc.


The Drakh plague was clearly a McGuffin with the focus of the series being the adventures they went on while searching for a cure. I have no problem with that. Still, it seemed like if they were going to make another TV movie after the series had ended, it would have been worthwhile to give it a proper story and conclusion, instead of just "yep, Earth is fine in the future".
 
2013-01-26 01:06:38 PM  

NeoCortex42: recoil47: NeoCortex42: Speaking of unresolved cliffhangers, what about Babylong 5: Crusade? Sure, the show was terrible, but they never even bothered wrapping up the plot. Even though they had at least one TV movie after the series was over, they ignored the fact that the entirety of Earth was doomed to die.

No, they didn't. The finale of Babylon 5 shows that Earth is just fine and dandy some 17-18 years after the Shadow War, and some 12 or so years after the Drahk attacked. Also in the episode "Deconstruction of Falling Stars" at the end, Delenn's epilogue states that they "won the Drakh War." So it was a foregone conclusion that somehow a cure to the Drakh plague would be found. As with B5, the series was never going to be about the Drakh plague itself, rather the search for it would uncover the core part of the story. It would be the equivalent of in B5 thinking that the Raiders were the central enemy after a few episodes.

Words from JMS were that the core part of the story would likely deal with leftover Shadow tech from the war, and deal more and more with the Technomages. There was a series of books who delt with them, but the overall ideas that Crusade was to reveal were never brought to light to my knowledge. But it was never going to just be about the Drakh Plague. It was another 5 year arc.

The Drakh plague was clearly a McGuffin with the focus of the series being the adventures they went on while searching for a cure. I have no problem with that. Still, it seemed like if they were going to make another TV movie after the series had ended, it would have been worthwhile to give it a proper story and conclusion, instead of just "yep, Earth is fine in the future".


I believe they wanted to, but couldn't come to an agreement with anyone. There was even an "almost" motion picture. The only B5 universe content we have been given since Crusade was the "Lost Tales" DVDs which were basically two short-storys. They were OK, but nothing to get excited over. The idea was to do more of them and make a bit of a series, but that never got off the ground either.
 
2013-01-26 01:09:53 PM  

recoil47: I believe they wanted to, but couldn't come to an agreement with anyone. There was even an "almost" motion picture. The only B5 universe content we have been given since Crusade was the "Lost Tales" DVDs which were basically two short-storys. They were OK, but nothing to get excited over. The idea was to do more of them and make a bit of a series, but that never got off the ground either.


That's a shame. Babylon 5 created a rich universe that has a lot of potential, even away from the titular station. It's a shame it never really got the spin-offs and films Star Trek did, aside from the very short-lived and very interfered-with Crusade.
 
2013-01-26 01:14:35 PM  
Didn't one of the Pretender movies end on a cliffhanger or something?
 
2013-01-26 01:16:58 PM  

BizarreMan: fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...you can't get fooled again..


FTFY
 
2013-01-26 01:22:10 PM  
The X-files made me dump my cable tv.
 
2013-01-26 01:24:39 PM  

TehBoognish: The X-files made me dump my cable tv.


So you didn't want to believe in cable anymore?
 
2013-01-26 01:28:48 PM  

rugman11: I honestly don't understand this attitude. Television shows aren't like books or movies. With the possible exception of Game of Thrones, they're episodic in nature so that each episode can be viewed on its own, independent of the rest, even in a serialized show.


I myself like shows that have one big story or like Dexter, one story per season. Shows that are too episodic have no consequences to anything. The first one that comes to mind is Star Trek Voyager. Every episode the ship was left in shambles and next week they were playing on the holodeck. They must have gone through a dozen shuttlecrafts and I don't know how many crew members. They only started out like like 70 and had no re-enforcements. As long as the creators know how it's going to end and that's a big IF, I prefer a story arc.

The drawback being that you have to wait a week for each story, why it's fortunate that I didn't start watching Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy or Dexter until the 4th seasons and just caught up.
 
2013-01-26 01:38:51 PM  
Pushing Daisy's did have a wrap up (short one) in the last episode.

/available on netflix
 
2013-01-26 01:41:48 PM  
Charmed had a nice, sweet ending. But that was another show that went on a couple seasons too long. Especially when they started grooming the girl from TBBT and her little sister to be replacement Charmed Ones.
 
2013-01-26 01:42:23 PM  

NeoCortex42: Okay, I'm going to have to stop you there. I love Sliders. The first two and a half seasons were great, but it was not cancelled in its prime. Season four was terrible, and season five was abysmal.


Oh, I agree that the last 2 seasons of Sliders was a trainwreck, but it should have been allowed to run a little longer to give the writers a chance to atone for their sins with better material or at least tie up all the loose ends.
 
2013-01-26 01:44:19 PM  

texdent: Didn't one of the Pretender movies end on a cliffhanger or something?


I don't believe so. They had 2 films if I recall, but answered SOME questions, but introduced others. Seemed clear they had no intention of ever bringing full closure to the series, so I don't know if I'd call this a show that was cancelled or abandoned after a cliff hanger --- they had 2 chances to do it in 2 TV movies and took a pass on both. At least Farscape had closure with their miniseries....
 
2013-01-26 01:46:24 PM  

FuryOfFirestorm: NeoCortex42: Okay, I'm going to have to stop you there. I love Sliders. The first two and a half seasons were great, but it was not cancelled in its prime. Season four was terrible, and season five was abysmal.

Oh, I agree that the last 2 seasons of Sliders was a trainwreck, but it should have been allowed to run a little longer to give the writers a chance to atone for their sins with better material or at least tie up all the loose ends.


I doubt they would have been able to. The show had a great concept and we should count ourselves lucky that we got a pretty solid two and a half season out of it. There were just too many behind-the-scenes problems for the show to have a long life. First there was Fox demanding no cliffhangers or serialization, then there was the way and reasons that Wade and the Professor got dropped from the cast, and finally there was Jerry O'Connel realizing how important he was to the show and getting a bit too greedy with his influence.
 
2013-01-26 01:48:02 PM  

rugman11: FuryOfFirestorm: BullBearMS: I get pissed off by science fiction shows that hit their stride, only to be canned.

Stargate Universe, Sarah Conner Chronicles, Enterprise....

Grrrrr...

...and Sliders, The 4400, Alphas, Tower Prep, Kyle XY, No Ordinary Family, V...

I haven't seen all of those, but Sliders went at least two years too long. There are about a million reasons that show went wrong, but to say it was "hitting its stride" in season five would be a gross misrepresentation of that show.

No Ordinary Family was okay, and I really liked the storyline with Autumn Reeser's character, but that final fight scene may have been the worst thing ever filmed. I was honestly ready for that show to go after that scene.

V was only "hitting its stride" in the sense that they had finally killed off all the annoying characters. They might have been able to do some more interesting things later, but I think it had its run.

BizarreMan:

and Eureka....

I really like Eureka, but that show had the frustrating habit of rebooting the show anytime things started to get really interesting. They probably could have gone on longer, but that's another show that probably ended at a good time.


The thing is, the networks for supposedly being run by smart people are pretty fraking stupid.

They wail and moan that nobody is watching serialized dramas with long story arcs....and yet when they have a serialized drama with a long story arc, that isn't bringing in as many viewers as they think they should be getting, they can it. Leading the viewers to not watch the next one because...fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

I honestly don't understand this attitude. Television shows aren't like books or movies. With the possible exception of Game of Thrones, they're episodic in nature so that each episode can be viewed on its own, independent of the rest, even in a serialized show. The example I always use is Lost. That pilot is an awesome piece of television and I ...


The Shield had a pretty awesome finale, it was procedural with lots of shows being crime of the week but there were always asides relating to the bigger plot
 
2013-01-26 01:58:04 PM  

Mugato: rugman11: I honestly don't understand this attitude. Television shows aren't like books or movies. With the possible exception of Game of Thrones, they're episodic in nature so that each episode can be viewed on its own, independent of the rest, even in a serialized show.

I myself like shows that have one big story or like Dexter, one story per season. Shows that are too episodic have no consequences to anything. The first one that comes to mind is Star Trek Voyager. Every episode the ship was left in shambles and next week they were playing on the holodeck. They must have gone through a dozen shuttlecrafts and I don't know how many crew members. They only started out like like 70 and had no re-enforcements. As long as the creators know how it's going to end and that's a big IF, I prefer a story arc.

The drawback being that you have to wait a week for each story, why it's fortunate that I didn't start watching Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy or Dexter until the 4th seasons and just caught up.


Right, but most of those shows still are capable of telling a single story in 40-60 minutes while also weaving in continuity. I can sit down and watch the "Dead Freight" episode of Breaking Bad (with the train robbery) and it's just a damn good episode of television. Sure it weaves in continuity from the season, but it has a distinct story and should be able to be watched and enjoyed without worrying about the show getting canceled before we find out what happens to Walter White.

I just don't understand why people would not watch a show because they're afraid that in four years it'll be canceled after 50-80 episodes and they won't get a full conclusion. Hell, there are people today who will tell you not to watch Lost or Battlestar Galactica because they didn't like the endings as though, somehow, one hour of television can invalidate the 75-125 hours that came before it.

Unlike film, television is as much, if not more, about the journey than the destination. And to lose the trees for the forest to me is just really sad, especially when it creates this cycle of shows getting canceled because people didn't watch out of fear they would be canceled.
 
2013-01-26 01:59:18 PM  
Reaper was canceled after we learned that Heaven apparently had a plan
Joan of Arcadia was canceled with Joan apparently going to fight Satan's guy in the next season.
 
2013-01-26 02:05:53 PM  

rugman11: Unlike film, television is as much, if not more, about the journey than the destination. And to lose the trees for the forest to me is just really sad, especially when it creates this cycle of shows getting canceled because people didn't watch out of fear they would be canceled.


I agree with that sentiment with Twin Peaks which I mentioned earlier that I just recently watched, probably because it was so farking weird I never expected a "satisfying" ending. But and I hate to be another one who belabors over Lost, they just kept building and building all these plot points that really gave the impression that it was all going to be explained in a logical manner and it just didn't. So unlike Twin Peaks, it's not a show I'd ever re-visit.
 
2013-01-26 02:13:54 PM  

NeoCortex42: FuryOfFirestorm: NeoCortex42: Okay, I'm going to have to stop you there. I love Sliders. The first two and a half seasons were great, but it was not cancelled in its prime. Season four was terrible, and season five was abysmal.

Oh, I agree that the last 2 seasons of Sliders was a trainwreck, but it should have been allowed to run a little longer to give the writers a chance to atone for their sins with better material or at least tie up all the loose ends.

I doubt they would have been able to. The show had a great concept and we should count ourselves lucky that we got a pretty solid two and a half season out of it. There were just too many behind-the-scenes problems for the show to have a long life. First there was Fox demanding no cliffhangers or serialization, then there was the way and reasons that Wade and the Professor got dropped from the cast, and finally there was Jerry O'Connel realizing how important he was to the show and getting a bit too greedy with his influence.


Sliders is easily fixed... Real Professor was stuck on Azure Gate Bridge world, finally got a Sliding machine built, and finds His group of Sliders still together with the fake Arturo.

Somewhere along the line, we started watching the adventures of the wrong group, so the last two seasons, and maybe nothing after season 2, didn't happen.

/that would be the one place a copout ending like that would work.
 
2013-01-26 02:14:31 PM  

neurodoclove: No mention of Soap?? I randomly stumbled on a marathon Comedy Central was airing for this show like 15 years ago and got completely hooked. I watched every episode over the course of the weekend but then thought I must've missed the damn finale somehow. It wasn't until way later that I found out the series ended on a cliffhanger. Sonofabiatch! Did Jessica die? What happened to Burt??? Come on!


It was revealed on Benson that Jessica ended up in a coma in South America. Nothing else was ever resolved.
 
2013-01-26 02:27:56 PM  
One thing I have really liked about American Horry Story is the one-storyline per season structure. Just enough time to create a fun, batshiat crazy storyline and finish it out, but not long enough for things to get stupid and repetitive. I particularly thought that the Asylum season that just wrapped up worked really well, especially the Lana and Jude storylines which ended with a lot of closure for the characters. I think more television shows should go for an anthology/mini-series hybrid like that. It really cuts down on the filler and keeps the story from getting unnecessarily dragged out if the show does well, since you can always bring back popular actors in new roles for the following season, like they did with Jessica Lange.
 
2013-01-26 02:29:44 PM  
One show that was cut too short, but still had a satisfying end was Wonderfalls. It works really well as a single-season story arc.
 
2013-01-26 02:29:44 PM  
Sarah Connor Chronicles season two was attrociously boring. S3 was going to have to answer questions like Cameron's real backstory(was she ever actually reprogramed? Was future-John even alive when she went back in time? What was her real model designation and was her new body going to be more human?), AND they were going to have to stop John's uncle from getting shot in the head when they went back to the past.

Eureka ended right where it should have ended. The time reset was a good hail-mary shake up, but it had run it's course.

Dark Angel was a true travesty - spend an entire year destroying the show and then canceling it on a cliffhanger.

Tower Prep is a giant "HUH?" That one still needs a REAL ending.

The only thing that worked in the Xfiles finale was any scene with just
Scully and Mulder, like all of season eight. And the second theatrical film - basically Chris Carter should have given up the show and had someone else tie it up for him.

Have the last three eps of Last Resort on my hard drive, going to watch tonight.

Castle better get a decent ending next season. Prediction: Castle's dad will be instrumental in finally finishing Becket's quest, all live happily ever after.

After seeing the Serenity feature film, I'm glad Joss lost the chance to screw up Firefly. The tonal shift from tv to feature was whiplash inducing, and it seems obvious that he was going to give Mal the same bleak existence that he condemned Angel to.

They should have quit Voyager with season five. Six and Seven got progressively worse and the finale was one of the worst I've ever seen... because I've never watched the finale for Enterprise and X-Files last ep only has like fifteen watchable minutes. Forewarned is forearmed, if you decide to watch Enterprise stop at the penultimate ep of season four

Pushing Daisies only had one year left, and it required a mega happy ending where the pie-maker figures out how to touch the previously dead without perma-killing them.

I don't understand the hate for LOST. The first season was amazing, the second was gawd-awful, the third back to awesome, fourth and fifth kinda blend together, and six was a nice change-up. When people ask about the mysteries, I have to question what show they had been watching because it seemed pretty obvious Bad Robot was making shiat up on the fly the whole time and the important thing about the show was the emotion, and the mysteries were just a vehicle for that.

The Pretender got killed by a merger. I like to pretend that the next movie involves Jarod and Miss Parker teeming up with Sydney and Broots to rescue their son Oliver and finally take down the Triumverate.

Thundercats reboot. Fire whoever canceled it and bring it back.

DC Nation - SAVE IT. Young Justice could easily be better than Justice League. And Green Lantern needs to go PG13(at least) when they do The Blackest Night.

Roughnecks: Starship Trooper Chronicles. Sony already has the audio recorded for the last three episodes and apparently intends to sit on them forever when one final movie would be awesome.

How about another installment of GIJoe: Resolute? That was the exactly the followup to the 80's cartoon that we all wanted.
 
2013-01-26 02:32:31 PM  
Also, Disney is probably gonna cancel Tron: Uprising, and let it end on a cliffhanger.

Wolverine and the X-Men was going to give us the Age of Apocolypse animated(Finally!!!!), but ended on a cliffhanger.
 
2013-01-26 02:35:22 PM  

Jarhead_h: Have the last three eps of Last Resort on my hard drive, going to watch tonight.


I still can't believe they were able to wrap up as much as they did with that show in the last episode. Of course as with the rest of the series, you have to ignore anything you may know about how the Navy or federal government actually works.

Jarhead_h: Thundercats reboot. Fire whoever canceled it and bring it back.


So much this. That show was really going well. I can't believe Cartoon Network didn't want to go with it. Well, at least I still have Korra to look forward to over on Nickelodeon.
 
2013-01-26 02:42:30 PM  

Mad_Radhu: One thing I have really liked about American Horry Story is the one-storyline per season structure. Just enough time to create a fun, batshiat crazy storyline and finish it out, but not long enough for things to get stupid and repetitive. I particularly thought that the Asylum season that just wrapped up worked really well, especially the Lana and Jude storylines which ended with a lot of closure for the characters. I think more television shows should go for an anthology/mini-series hybrid like that. It really cuts down on the filler and keeps the story from getting unnecessarily dragged out if the show does well, since you can always bring back popular actors in new roles for the following season, like they did with Jessica Lange.



I do like the anthology format and I did overall like this past season of AHS, but it did seem like they were going for a kind of half-assed episodic format this season too. While I think it mostly worked, there was a sense that a lot of shiat was being thrown at the wall to see what sticks. I didn't care much for the finale as I think it wrapped up a lot of storylines rather inconsequentially. The first seasons sort of had an episodic format too, but not nearly to the same extent and it felt like there was a logical ending planned out.
 
2013-01-26 02:48:09 PM  

Confabulat: neurodoclove: No mention of Soap?? I randomly stumbled on a marathon Comedy Central was airing for this show like 15 years ago and got completely hooked. I watched every episode over the course of the weekend but then thought I must've missed the damn finale somehow. It wasn't until way later that I found out the series ended on a cliffhanger. Sonofabiatch! Did Jessica die? What happened to Burt??? Come on!

It was revealed on Benson that Jessica ended up in a coma in South America. Nothing else was ever resolved.


Never got a chance to watch Benson -- thank you kind farker.
 
2013-01-26 02:49:39 PM  

Mad_Radhu: One thing I have really liked about American Horry Story is the one-storyline per season structure.


Yeah, in season 2 I only saw the first episode and recorded the rest and now that the season's over I can just watch them all in a row. I wish I had the will power to do that with Dexter. I also would get pissed though if Dexter were spoiled before I watched it, don't care quite as much about AHS.

This thread makes it look like I watch TV all the time but I think I've literally mentioned every show I watch regularly.
 
2013-01-26 02:57:12 PM  

Jarhead_h: The only thing that worked in the Xfiles finale was any scene with just
Scully and Mulder, like all of season eight. And the second theatrical film


I don't remember much of what happened after the first theatrical X-Files but I'm pretty sure they could have ended it there and not lost much. The clear shark jumping moment was when they replaced Mulder and Scully with the T-1000 and the chick from those 1980s movies.

The Enterprise finale was farking appalling. You said you didn't watch it so in case you didn't know it was Riker and Troi recreating an episode of Enterprise on the holodeck for some reason. It was set during a much earlier episode of TNG, except Troi looked older and Riker was bloated. The Voyager finale was bad too, with them approaching earth after seven years and roll credits without anyone beaming down and saying hello to their friends and family. The TNG and DS9 finales were good.
 
2013-01-26 03:04:14 PM  
Just film an ending put it in the can. Then update it as the show continues until cancellation.

/ What happened to Super train did Amtrak discontinue the route ?
 
2013-01-26 03:11:52 PM  
Love them or hate them, at least Lost and Galactica had the opportunity to finish telling their story. What the producers did with that chance that's on them.

Dropping a series with no closure sucks.

This season of American Horror Story was definitely strange. So many plot points and story lines brought up, then just dropped. But they did bring closure to pretty much everything so it's not all bad.

/Jessica Lange demands an Emmy for her performance this season.
//She was robbed of the Golden Globe.
///Hell she deserves an Oscar.
 
2013-01-26 03:24:17 PM  

Mugato: Jarhead_h: The only thing that worked in the Xfiles finale was any scene with just
Scully and Mulder, like all of season eight. And the second theatrical film

I don't remember much of what happened after the first theatrical X-Files but I'm pretty sure they could have ended it there and not lost much. The clear shark jumping moment was when they replaced Mulder and Scully with the T-1000 and the chick from those 1980s movies.

The Enterprise finale was farking appalling. You said you didn't watch it so in case you didn't know it was Riker and Troi recreating an episode of Enterprise on the holodeck for some reason. It was set during a much earlier episode of TNG, except Troi looked older and Riker was bloated. The Voyager finale was bad too, with them approaching earth after seven years and roll credits without anyone beaming down and saying hello to their friends and family. The TNG and DS9 finales were good.


I DID know, that's why I avoided it. Voyager's finale ended with an anti-climatic "We did it." To be honest, the delivery Kate Mulgrew gave makes me think the original line was "It's over. Thank god." Season six and seven only have half-dozen good episodes between them. There are just too many problems to list. They failed miserably with every single character.

X-Files season six wasn't exceptional, but it was watchable. Season seven had a LOT of FUN filler with a GREAT finale. Honestly they could have condensed seven, eight, and nine into one year and not missed anything. Plus they wouldn't have had to deal with Duchonvy walking away two years in a row. In fact, if nine had to happen at all, it should have seen Mulder and Scully BOTH leave(with baby William), coming back just for the finale. If Carter somehow manages to get another movie(doubtful) they need to get their kid back.
 
2013-01-26 03:38:33 PM  
All I'm saying is that I'm glad that they gave Leverage a proper ending.
 
2013-01-26 03:55:48 PM  

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: All I'm saying is that I'm glad that they gave Leverage a proper ending.


Amen brother.
 
2013-01-26 04:00:10 PM  

BizarreMan: Amen brother.


Shame that it had to come after only five seasons, but... hey, I'll take it.
 
2013-01-26 04:05:53 PM  

Jarhead_h: They failed miserably with every single character.


I liked 7 of 9 a lot (not just because of those). Of all the characters who tried to learn about humanity and I think there was one on every show, she was my favorite. The other characters were pretty boring.

It's too bad the last X-Files movie was so Godawful. I don't know what they were thinking with that. The aliens were supposed to invade in 2012 too.
 
2013-01-26 04:23:12 PM  

Jarhead_h: Also, Disney is probably gonna cancel Tron: Uprising, and let it end on a cliffhanger.


If it does have a cliffhanger, it won't be much - it takes place before Legacy anyway.
 
2013-01-26 05:07:32 PM  

Mugato: Jarhead_h: They failed miserably with every single character.

I liked 7 of 9 a lot (not just because of those). Of all the characters who tried to learn about humanity and I think there was one on every show, she was my favorite. The other characters were pretty boring.

It's too bad the last X-Files movie was so Godawful. I don't know what they were thinking with that. The aliens were supposed to invade in 2012 too.


I didn't start watching Voyager until Seven showed up. She brought a new angle to the show- we'll call it the "interesting" one. She gave the doctor a project, the captain a surrogate daughter, Harry a love interest, B'Lanna someone to butt heads with, student to Tuvok and Neelix, and her appearance gave Kess a great sendoff. Then Jeri Taylor was replaced with Braga, the show peaked with "Timeless" and then began a death spiral from which it never recovered.....

.....Oh, yeah, and she ended up with Chakotay!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

DS9 was the best Trek series hands down. My only quibble would be making Odo back into a Changling. They should have had the guts to stick with the storyline.
 
2013-01-26 05:15:15 PM  

kmmontandon: Ishkur: Plan on doing that for Heroes and The Wire next (I'm a little behind).


I wouldn't recommend that for Heroes.

Seriously, don't bother.


Heroes only had one season as far as I'm concerned.
 
2013-01-26 05:22:01 PM  

bigtotoro: kmmontandon: Ishkur: Plan on doing that for Heroes and The Wire next (I'm a little behind).


I wouldn't recommend that for Heroes.

Seriously, don't bother.

Heroes only had one season as far as I'm concerned.


I'm still not sure why Heroes is talked about with the kind of reverence reserved for Twin Peaks or Firefly or something. 1 pretty good season and another 3 awful seasons? It's not like we're talking about The Simpsons where season 2 - 8 more than make up for how bland the show has been since season 10.
 
2013-01-26 05:26:08 PM  

FeedTheCollapse: bigtotoro: kmmontandon: Ishkur: Plan on doing that for Heroes and The Wire next (I'm a little behind).


I wouldn't recommend that for Heroes.

Seriously, don't bother.

Heroes only had one season as far as I'm concerned.

I'm still not sure why Heroes is talked about with the kind of reverence reserved for Twin Peaks or Firefly or something. 1 pretty good season and another 3 awful seasons? It's not like we're talking about The Simpsons where season 2 - 8 more than make up for how bland the show has been since season 10.


Who the hell talks about Heroes with reverence? It's first season was a legitimately good show. If they had gone with the original plan of changing the cast each season, it might have been a good show year after year. Instead, the subsequent seasons were bad enough that it's generally considered a bad show that's worth watching the first year of.
 
2013-01-26 05:27:45 PM  

Jarhead_h: I didn't start watching Voyager until Seven showed up


Good decision, even if it was unintentional. That's when the show started not sucking. Sort of like how DS9 got good when Sisko shaved his head and got the goatee but worse than that because DS9 was never that bad. I wouldn't say Harry was a love interest. He had a crush on her for like one episode and she shot him down. Probably because she figured he wouldn't be alive for much longer since he was always the whipping boy in every episode. If something farked up was going to happen, it happened to him. And yeah, Chakotay. The most boring motherfarker in either quadrant.

And yes, even though Kirk/Spock/McCoy are icons, DS9 was the best overall show. A lot of it had to do with them dropping the "look how perfect and moral humanity is". If it was Picard's responsibility to trick the Romulans into joining the Dominion war, we'd all be speaking Dominion. And if "Hue" the Borg wandered onto DS9 ans Sisko had that paradox virus, the Borg would be one chapter called "The Massacre of Wolf 359...Then the Borg all died somehow".
 
2013-01-26 05:44:30 PM  

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: So, give Now and Again a decent ending, then.

Problem solved.


THIS! And Profit!

Damn we were pissed about these shows getting cancelled. At least they gave Alien Nation a couple of movies to wrap things up.

We pretty much never watch network television anymore because of this. I don't even bother to catch up on good shows that managed to survive, like Breaking Bad. Most television isn't worth the effort. I'll stick with things like Game of Thrones.
 
2013-01-26 05:51:19 PM  

NeoCortex42: FuryOfFirestorm: BullBearMS: I get pissed off by science fiction shows that hit their stride, only to be canned.

Stargate Universe, Sarah Conner Chronicles, Enterprise....

Grrrrr...

...and Sliders, The 4400, Alphas, Tower Prep, Kyle XY, No Ordinary Family, V...

Okay, I'm going to have to stop you there. I love Sliders. The first two and a half seasons were great, but it was not cancelled in its prime. Season four was terrible, and season five was abysmal.

BizarreMan: and Eureka....

I am also a huge fan of Eureka, but it was beginning to go downhill. Everything since the timeline shift was a bit underwhelming. Almost every case of the week ended up being world-threatening and the Felicia Day arc was way too much of a focus for what seemed like half a season. One more season of the show might have still been good, but the show had a good run of episodes and I'm fine with when it ended.

Personally, I am incredibly disappointed that Alphas got canned. It was excellent, but it was enjoyable and still one of the few new Sci-Fi shows on Syfy.


I'll still never forgive them killing off Nathan Stark. His banter with the sheriff made the show and from then on it was much weaker.
 
2013-01-26 06:07:41 PM  

Faddy: The Shield had a pretty awesome finale, it was procedural with lots of shows being crime of the week but there were always asides relating to the bigger plot.


"The Shield" was a show that should have set an example for all other shows, police dramas or not. It did *everything* right, IMHO, and should have been the template that other shows followed (and networks, too, of course). Unfortunately, that didn't happen, and the networks have to understand why I, and many like me, don't bother to watch their shows anymore.
 
2013-01-26 06:39:21 PM  

silvervial: THIS! And Profit!

Damn we were pissed about these shows getting cancelled. At least they gave Alien Nation a couple of movies to wrap things up.


Aw, man... if Now and Again had a wrap-up movie, that would've been the BEST.


silvervial: Faddy: The Shield had a pretty awesome finale, it was procedural with lots of shows being crime of the week but there were always asides relating to the bigger plot.

"The Shield" was a show that should have set an example for all other shows, police dramas or not. It did *everything* right, IMHO, and should have been the template that other shows followed (and networks, too, of course). Unfortunately, that didn't happen, and the networks have to understand why I, and many like me, don't bother to watch their shows anymore.


The Shield and its finale were boss. That series finale should have been the example for all other series to follow.


silvervial: We pretty much never watch network television anymore because of this. I don't even bother to catch up on good shows that managed to survive, like Breaking Bad. Most television isn't worth the effort. I'll stick with things like Game of Thrones.


You might want to consider changing this. Season 4 and the first half of Season 5 were pretty damn good.
 
2013-01-26 06:42:03 PM  

Mugato: Jarhead_h: The only thing that worked in the Xfiles finale was any scene with just
Scully and Mulder, like all of season eight. And the second theatrical film

I don't remember much of what happened after the first theatrical X-Files but I'm pretty sure they could have ended it there and not lost much. The clear shark jumping moment was when they replaced Mulder and Scully with the T-1000 and the chick from those 1980s movies.


I stopped watching X-Files when Scully put Mulder's name plate in the desk drawer and decided not to look for him, and I had been a DEVOTED X-phile up to that point. I was so disgusted, I have never watched seasons 8 or 9 (though I did buy them on discount to keep my collection complete), but I enjoyed the second movie, except for the M/S romance aspects. I was never a 'shipper, I was a slasher, and lived for Mulder/Krycek and Mulder/Skinner moments and fic.

What was done to my beloved show (and Deadwood and Carnivale and so many others) has permanently soured me on TV.

Now I'll watch things like Top Chef, but I will never get invested in another show again.
 
2013-01-26 06:44:34 PM  
I WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO AUTOMAN, DAMMIT!
 
2013-01-26 07:03:34 PM  

silvervial: but I enjoyed the second movie


You were the one?

I was never a 'shipper, I was a slasher, and lived for Mulder/Krycek and Mulder/Skinner moments and fic.

I don't know what that means and I probably don't, do I?
 
2013-01-26 10:34:33 PM  

Mugato: Jarhead_h: I didn't start watching Voyager until Seven showed up

Good decision, even if it was unintentional. That's when the show started not sucking. Sort of like how DS9 got good when Sisko shaved his head and got the goatee but worse than that because DS9 was never that bad. I wouldn't say Harry was a love interest. He had a crush on her for like one episode and she shot him down. Probably because she figured he wouldn't be alive for much longer since he was always the whipping boy in every episode. If something farked up was going to happen, it happened to him. And yeah, Chakotay. The most boring motherfarker in either quadrant.

And yes, even though Kirk/Spock/McCoy are icons, DS9 was the best overall show. A lot of it had to do with them dropping the "look how perfect and moral humanity is". If it was Picard's responsibility to trick the Romulans into joining the Dominion war, we'd all be speaking Dominion. And if "Hue" the Borg wandered onto DS9 ans Sisko had that paradox virus, the Borg would be one chapter called "The Massacre of Wolf 359...Then the Borg all died somehow".


Section 31... we finally got to the bottom of just what force the Federation had that made the quadrant safe for starship captains to make preachy utopian speeches.

Harry was Ensign Butt-monkey. the saddest thing is that I saw Garret Wang at a convention in Frisco back after he had just finished filming "Non Sequitur." The line-up that day was Jimmy Doohan, Avery Brooks, the guy that played Rom, and finally Garret, and Garret was the biggest surprise and hands down the most entertaining. We all looked at each other simply couldn't believe that they didn't just tell him to be himself on camera. He was hilarious and full of energy, on top of the world. If they had let that guy out more often the show would have been markedly improved.
 
2013-01-26 10:48:32 PM  

Jarhead_h: Section 31... we finally got to the bottom of just what force the Federation had that made the quadrant safe for starship captains to make preachy utopian speeches.


I love Section 31. I'm one of those assholes who wants a S31 series. Or at least mention them in the next film but I don't think JJ knows enough about Trek to even know about them.
 
2013-01-26 10:54:38 PM  
images.hitfix.com

Would like a word
 
2013-01-26 11:02:14 PM  
Okay, people, fine!

I'll scratch Heroes off my list.

But the Wire is good, right? ...hell, anything HBO is good, it seems.
 
2013-01-26 11:08:17 PM  

Jarhead_h: Harry was Ensign Butt-monkey. the saddest thing is that I saw Garret Wang at a convention in Frisco back after he had just finished filming "Non Sequitur." The line-up that day was Jimmy Doohan, Avery Brooks, the guy that played Rom, and finally Garret, and Garret was the biggest surprise and hands down the most entertaining. We all looked at each other simply couldn't believe that they didn't just tell him to be himself on camera. He was hilarious and full of energy, on top of the world. If they had let that guy out more often the show would have been markedly improved.


Garratt Wang has a big monologue about that too. Apparently the producers told the cast to play down their emotions week after week in order to accentuate the emotions of whatever aliens they came across. This wasn't hard considering Tuvoc was a Vulcan so good luck getting any emotion from him, Seven is a reclaimed Borg who's lost her humanity, and the Doctor is essentially photonic software (albeit pedantic). Chakotay and Kim were written into wall-paper paste, and Neelix was marginalized because nobody liked him. That leaves Torres, Tom Paris and Janeway as the only characters who were allowed to do anything.

What a crappy show.
 
2013-01-27 03:25:08 AM  

Ishkur: Okay, people, fine!

I'll scratch Heroes off my list.

But the Wire is good, right? ...hell, anything HBO is good, it seems.


Watch the first season of Heroes. It's good TV. The creator never got to make the second season as originally intended, because the network wanted to create a franchise around the characters instead of around the concept (which seems dumb to me because it seems swapping out the actors each season prevents actor saleries from becoming bloated, but hey).

The first season does work as a story unto itself, with a satisfying conclusion. You don't need to skip it because what came after wasn't as good. The various sequels and expansions of Highlander are all on a sliding scale of terrible, but the original movie is still fantastic and completely watchable.

The Wire is fantastic. I first watched it about a year and a half ago. Devoured it, I should say. A year later I did so again. I wouldn't be surprised to find myself watching it again this year.
 
2013-01-27 09:38:35 AM  

Ishkur: Jarhead_h: Harry was Ensign Butt-monkey. the saddest thing is that I saw Garret Wang at a convention in Frisco back after he had just finished filming "Non Sequitur." The line-up that day was Jimmy Doohan, Avery Brooks, the guy that played Rom, and finally Garret, and Garret was the biggest surprise and hands down the most entertaining. We all looked at each other simply couldn't believe that they didn't just tell him to be himself on camera. He was hilarious and full of energy, on top of the world. If they had let that guy out more often the show would have been markedly improved.

Garratt Wang has a big monologue about that too. Apparently the producers told the cast to play down their emotions week after week in order to accentuate the emotions of whatever aliens they came across. This wasn't hard considering Tuvoc was a Vulcan so good luck getting any emotion from him, Seven is a reclaimed Borg who's lost her humanity, and the Doctor is essentially photonic software (albeit pedantic). Chakotay and Kim were written into wall-paper paste, and Neelix was marginalized because nobody liked him. That leaves Torres, Tom Paris and Janeway as the only characters who were allowed to do anything.

What a crappy show.


That's what makes it so frustrating. Two, maybe three good years out of seven. They had a great cast, and if ever there was a premise that lent itself to a five year plan heavy with week-to-week continuity, it was Voyager. Instead we get eps like "Fair Haven" where the captain risks the lives of two of her senior staff to avoid deleting her holographic blow-up doll.

Imagine if they had written it so that Neelix was actually running the whole ship behind the scenes - always there with just the right bit of info or whatever, ultimate matchmaker, etc. What if Seven had actually GROWN as a person, maybe even started wearing blue uniforms like every one else in science. If Harry had continued to show the confidence he displayed in year four and five. What if Voyager had actually evoled into a "godship" because of it's organic components. What if the Captain actually HAD to rely on Chakotay and his angry warrior side, if he had actually been the show's morally gray character? So many missed opertunites.
 
2013-01-27 12:11:13 PM  

Jarhead_h: They had a great cast


I don't want to argue with a Marine but I don't think they had a great cast. I'm not going to bother with their real names for simplicity but Chakotay was utterly unremarkable. Neelix was more annoying than he needed to be (I heard someone say once that he should have been more of a Han Solo character. That would have been badass). Belanna was interesting at first because she's my kind of girl (not the forehead ridges but the hair and the attitude) but they neutered her (or spayed her) and made her a wimp. Paris was just sort of there to make Chakotay look even more boring. Kes, bland. Janeway, I dunno. Not terrible, not remarkable. The Doctor, great character, great actor. Seven, same.

I thought Seven did grow as a person. She made genuine attempts to learn to be human and befriended the little girl (I thought it was cute that she always called her by her full name). I thought she and the The Doctor had a decent character arc.

Another missed opportunity was how quickly the Maqui and Starfleet meshed together. There could have been a lot more tension but by the second episode with a few exceptions they were immediately a happy family.

They took a unique situation and turned it into a show where most episodes could have been episodes of TNG.

I like the idea of an enhanced super-ship with technology they gathered throughout their journey.

I liked a lot of the last couple seasons myself. It's been a while since I watched them though.
 
2013-01-27 08:25:25 PM  
Heroes was an unfortunate disaster that started out as a great idea.

First of all, the studio meddled too much and screwed up the creator's plans.
Second, the writer's strike caused turmoil.
Third, fans were unforgiving when the show took a down-turn, and they wouldn't give it a chance to repair itself.

I'm sure that there's an alternate universe where Heroes ran for 12 seasons, and it was the most popular, best-written science fiction show on television, right after Sliders ended on it's 15th season.
 
2013-01-27 08:51:36 PM  
All I know is that I used to bash Enterprise because I hated the first season and then stopped watching it. When I went back to watch the whole thing on Netflix, I discovered that it was actually one of the best SciFi shows on television at the time, but that it was ultimately damaged by a very weak first season and a truly unfortunate choice of theme song.

And the bummer is that they canceled it just when it was getting great. Dammit. I know it's partially my fault for bailing on it, and I feel bad.

So... I'm sorry they canceled Enterprise, guys.
 
2013-01-28 05:06:14 PM  

namatad:
Just rewatched Firefly. And I LOVE that show. But. Where would it have gone? How many more episodes of robberies/jobs gone bad, unable to sell the loot, getting screwed, narrow escapes could we really have been interested in? 1 full season?
tons of back story flashbacks to fill in Book and at some point, I am not sure how long the stories could have kept us going. Would have been NICE to have been proved wrong, but still.


No, they had a boatload of idea they could've run through. The movie could've been a season-long arc. Figuring out what Blue Sun had to do with things and taking them on could've been a season.

Then Whedon could've redone the great play he made with Angel and have Mal be made head of a settlement somewhere. If he's so good at knowing what's wrong with settlements maybe he should run one?

That's three seasons off the top of my head.

At least West Wing got properly canceled at the end of season 4, rather than have some HACKS at network continue without Sorkin.

Ah, a fellow true believer! Well-met, good sir or madame. *Doffs cap* I agree we are very lucky to have dodged that bullet.
 
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