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(Business Insider)   Gun-hating Liberal Joe Biden on how people are supposed to protect their homes if assault weapons are banned: Get yourself a doubled barrelled shotgun, you've got a much better chance of taking the punk out with one of those anyways   (businessinsider.com) divider line 351
    More: Amusing, Biden, assault weapons, shotguns, earthquakes  
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2472 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Jan 2013 at 10:27 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-25 09:38:09 AM
He's not wrong. A shotgun is a great option for close range defense.
 
2013-01-25 09:42:37 AM
If your reason to need a firearm is actually for home defense, why you'd need or want anything other than a shotgun is beyond me.

"But what if I am subject to a 24-man home invasion?"

If you need more than a shotgun, you shouldn't even pick up a weapon.
 
2013-01-25 09:44:55 AM

HMS_Blinkin: He's not wrong. A shotgun is a great option for close range defense.


This. An officer once told me half of getting anyone to surrender just meant cocking his shotgun loud enough for the guy to hear it.
 
2013-01-25 09:51:34 AM
Why can't I have a sawed off shotgun?
 
2013-01-25 09:51:53 AM
and a third for for "He's right"
 
2013-01-25 09:52:59 AM

simsite9: "But what if I am subject to a 24-man home invasion?"


if this is common in that person's neighborhood, remind me never to visit.
 
2013-01-25 09:56:20 AM

vernonFL: Why can't I have a sawed off shotgun?


You can, you just need six months of paperwork and a $200 tax stamp.
 
2013-01-25 09:56:56 AM
A $200 tax stamp that, by the way, has not changed in price since the NFA was enacted in the 30's.
 
2013-01-25 09:57:31 AM
I remember a guy in these threads claiming he needed an AR with a thirty-round clip to "clear his house" if he were ever robbed. Talk about overkill.
 
2013-01-25 10:01:14 AM

vartian: HMS_Blinkin: He's not wrong. A shotgun is a great option for close range defense.

This. An officer once told me half of getting anyone to surrender just meant cocking his shotgun loud enough for the guy to hear it.


When I was a kid, Dad's trigger-locked and loaded home-defense gun was big ol' dirty harry-looking S&W .44 Magnum revolver, but the first two chambers had shot shell rather than hollowpoints in them.  Dad's reasoning was that if the unthinkable occured and he had to fire the gun, he''d have a decent chance of not having to kill his target that way.  So why the hollowpoints? Because he figured if you saw that gun, and heard it go off twice while being pointed at you, and you WEREN'T running like hell in the opposite direction or surrendering, then you must be almost supernaturally determined to do him or his family harm and it was time to drop you.
 
2013-01-25 10:01:21 AM
I picked up a Benelli M3 on the cheap from the local pawn shop a few years ago. Semi-automatic with under barrel flashlight and laser sight - though I think the laser is overkill... Holds 7 shells and can be pumped or used in semi-auto mode on the fly. I wouldn't use anything else for home defense..
 
2013-01-25 10:03:29 AM

Jackson Herring: You can, you just need six months of paperwork and a $200 tax stamp.


Why is that limitation okay, but limiting magazines or "assault weapons" not okay?

(I'm asking NRA types, not you specifically)
 
2013-01-25 10:06:49 AM

vernonFL: Jackson Herring: You can, you just need six months of paperwork and a $200 tax stamp.

Why is that limitation okay, but limiting magazines or "assault weapons" not okay?

(I'm asking NRA types, not you specifically)


I don't know, but I am sure that it has something to do with wild hogs.
 
2013-01-25 10:07:15 AM
I'll stick with a handgun. I've seen movies, I know the mess a shotgun leaves. Not to mention the collateral damage to the stuff in your house.
 
2013-01-25 10:08:53 AM
I like how the article writer seems completely perplexed that Biden is actually recommending a gun.

As if they expected Biden to follow the liberal stereotype of "ALL GUNS ARE THE EVILEST THING FROM THE PIT OF SATAN'S COLON AND SHOULD BE BURNED!"
 
2013-01-25 10:09:27 AM

HMS_Blinkin: He's not wrong. A shotgun is a great option for close range defense.


We all learned that from the video game Doom.
 
2013-01-25 10:13:38 AM
Tell that to Nirvana.
 
2013-01-25 10:15:22 AM

I_C_Weener: Tell that to Nirvana.


To be fair, it did successfully save him physical contact with Courtney Love
 
2013-01-25 10:23:53 AM

vernonFL: Why is that limitation okay, but limiting magazines or "assault weapons" not okay?


I speak here from the perspective of a firearm owner but NOT an "NRA type" (I vehemently disagree with many of the NRA's stances and tactics).

Many folks in the shooting "lifestyle," as it were, disagree with the NFA (National Firearms Act of 1934). However, most aren't old enough to remember its implementation (or the gangsters at whom it was targeted).

It seems that the feeling on the ground is that the modern campaign against assault weapons is misdirected -- there's a push for a federal ban on a product that is implicated in statistically insignificant amounts of death compared to more mundane problems such as distracted drivers and poor pool safety -- and that once something is outlawed, it generally does not become UN-outlawed. In short, it's perceived as a slippery slope of limiting firearm ownership. (I'm redacting arguments that devolve into "but tyranny! socialism! HITLARRRR!")

Honestly, though, I'm inclined to mostly agree. There are far costlier social ills that have been blanket permission by the federal government (e.g. smoking and drinking and distracted driving), and that's not even getting into the points made by Constitutionalists.


All that being said, in relation to the article:
A 12-gauge shotgun is an excellent home-defense tool (far superior to a pistol or rifle in this area, IMHO). This is why a Remington 870 clone lives under my bed.
 
2013-01-25 10:26:07 AM

Magorn: When I was a kid, Dad's trigger-locked and loaded home-defense gun was big ol' dirty harry-looking S&W .44 Magnum revolver, but the first two chambers had shot shell rather than hollowpoints in them.  Dad's reasoning was that if the unthinkable occured and he had to fire the gun, he''d have a decent chance of not having to kill his target that way.  So why the hollowpoints? Because he figured if you saw that gun, and heard it go off twice while being pointed at you, and you WEREN'T running like hell in the opposite direction or surrendering, then you must be almost supernaturally determined to do him or his family harm and it was time to drop you.


that makes a lot of sense.
 
2013-01-25 10:27:39 AM

Mugato: I'll stick with a handgun. I've seen movies, I know the mess a shotgun leaves. Not to mention the collateral damage to the stuff in your house.


The good thing with shotguns though is they will rarely penetrate yours and your neighbors walls. A typical .45 rounds will blow through walls like shiat through a goose.. Not brick but sheetrock/plywood/siding absolutely. Even higher going into a 7.62N round will blast through a tree. A .223 round will blow through brick and plywood like it's not even there. Maybe not two complete layers but it will exit your house (I'm talking to you urban commandos).

Even 00 shotgun shells will rarely penetrate through 3 sheets of plywood so imagine shooting in your bedroom, through 1 layer sheetrock, 1 layer plywood, then your siding, then your neighbors siding, 1 more layer of plywood, 1 more layer of sheetrock. It would never make it. Most other rounds would.
 
2013-01-25 10:29:44 AM
Biden is an expert now?  That's all I need, but the guys guarding him need more?  What gives?
 
2013-01-25 10:30:04 AM

TwistedIvory: vernonFL: This is why a Remington 870 clone lives under my bed.


Locked in a gun safe, right?
 
2013-01-25 10:30:17 AM

xynix: Even 00 shotgun shells will rarely penetrate through 3 sheets of plywood so imagine shooting in your bedroom, through 1 layer sheetrock, 1 layer plywood, then your siding, then your neighbors siding, 1 more layer of plywood, 1 more layer of sheetrock. It would never make it. Most other rounds would.


Hmm. Interesting point.
 
2013-01-25 10:30:46 AM

simsite9: "But what if I am subject to a 24-man home invasion by the SWAT team?"


I think that's what the hardest-core gun nuts are worried about.

/or the black helicopters.
 
2013-01-25 10:32:24 AM
Well, for a single invader, sure.  My house is usually invaded by groups of 3-5 rapscallions, and two shots aren't enough.
 
2013-01-25 10:32:47 AM
But what about when a SEAL team attacks after Taxes Ohoulihan declares himself SUPREME ISLAM EMPEROR OF SOCIALISM!? Surely me and my rowdy friends who practice target shooting on weekends would be capable of taking down some of the best trained operatives on the planet if ONLY we had enough armaments!!!
 
2013-01-25 10:33:00 AM
Pretty much all of this.

I once heard of this for your shotgun: one blank round, one rock salt, the rest your lethal shot of choice. As someone posted above--if they don't run when you hear a shotgun cock, fire once. If that doesn't work, fire some rock salt, that will stop just about anything. But in case it doesn't, you have some live rounds to back it up.
 
2013-01-25 10:33:03 AM
Going to have to disagree with Mr. Biden on this.

Pump action shotgun is the way to go on home defense.
 
2013-01-25 10:33:12 AM

TwistedIvory: There are far costlier social ills that have been blanket permission by the federal government (e.g. smoking and drinking and distracted driving)


Have you seen all the shiat you have to do just to have a car and legally operate it on a roadway? How do you feel that compares to what is needed to have a gun?
 
2013-01-25 10:33:34 AM
And if you want to make sure the guy remembers not to enter your house ever again, use rock salt shells so it burns while he's laying in pain waiting for the cops to come arrest him.
 
2013-01-25 10:34:07 AM

Arkanaut: simsite9: "But what if I am subject to a 24-man home invasion by the SWAT team?"

I think that's what the hardest-core gun nuts are worried about.

/or the black helicopters.


My AR is used mainly for http://www.3gunnation.com/">http://www.3gunnation.com/

I can't use an over and under for that.  I've never shot anyone with my AR - why should I not be able buy a new one when my old one wears out?  Why are you persecuting me for the crimes of others?
 
2013-01-25 10:35:02 AM
I don't anticipate needing an assault weapon for home defense, unless we have another Katrina situation, in which case all bets are off and I want to be armed to the teeth if I'm stuck here when all hell breaks loose. But for ordinary home defense situations, a shotgun is a fine choice, although I'm not sure I'd go with a double barrel in case I missed, and then that's not something you can reload quickly, in the dark, adrenaline pumping, and if the assailant gets in too close, then you can't raise the thing to fire.  At least that's what the cops that talked me out of the shotgun and into the S&W .40 told me.
 
2013-01-25 10:35:28 AM

cameroncrazy1984: I remember a guy in these threads claiming he needed an AR with a thirty-round clip to "clear his house" if he were ever robbed. Talk about overkill.


Maybe he has really poor eyesight - or is bloody hopeless at that "aiming" thingee?
 
2013-01-25 10:35:42 AM

bradkanus: Biden is an expert now?  That's all I need, but the guys guarding him need more?  What gives?


Don't be fatuous. You can't be a plot point hostage in a masturbatory Tom Clancy novel, much less valuable in an actual tactical assault on sitting world leaders.
 
2013-01-25 10:35:44 AM

BunkyBrewman: HMS_Blinkin: He's not wrong. A shotgun is a great option for close range defense.

We all learned that from the video game Doom.


I have a rifle actually called the BFG-50.  It is utterly inappropriate for close-range defense.
 
2013-01-25 10:36:16 AM

bulldg4life: TwistedIvory: There are far costlier social ills that have been blanket permission by the federal government (e.g. smoking and drinking and distracted driving)

Have you seen all the shiat you have to do just to have a car and legally operate it on a roadway? How do you feel that compares to what is needed to have a gun?


Probably a fine idea from a practical standpoint, but you don't have a constitutional right to keep and bear motor vehicles on roadways.
 
2013-01-25 10:36:19 AM

Jackson Herring: vernonFL: Jackson Herring: You can, you just need six months of paperwork and a $200 tax stamp.

Why is that limitation okay, but limiting magazines or "assault weapons" not okay?

(I'm asking NRA types, not you specifically)

I don't know, but I am sure that it has something to do with wild hogs.


Or annoying children.
 
2013-01-25 10:36:31 AM

bradkanus: Biden is an expert now?  That's all I need, but the guys guarding him need more?  What gives?


Look how terrible they were, they could even stop your Lord and Savior from being shot by a nerd with a pistol.
 
2013-01-25 10:36:40 AM
A Responsible Gun Owner doesn't care that a shot from his assault rifle will go through a home intruder, an inner wall, his child, an outer wall, and into the house across the street, finally coming to rest in a dog.

A liberal gets a shotgun loaded with 00 Buckshot and makes sure to aim at the intruder.
 
2013-01-25 10:36:51 AM

xynix: Mugato: I'll stick with a handgun. I've seen movies, I know the mess a shotgun leaves. Not to mention the collateral damage to the stuff in your house.

The good thing with shotguns though is they will rarely penetrate yours and your neighbors walls. A typical .45 rounds will blow through walls like shiat through a goose.. Not brick but sheetrock/plywood/siding absolutely. Even higher going into a 7.62N round will blast through a tree. A .223 round will blow through brick and plywood like it's not even there. Maybe not two complete layers but it will exit your house (I'm talking to you urban commandos).

Even 00 shotgun shells will rarely penetrate through 3 sheets of plywood so imagine shooting in your bedroom, through 1 layer sheetrock, 1 layer plywood, then your siding, then your neighbors siding, 1 more layer of plywood, 1 more layer of sheetrock. It would never make it. Most other rounds would.


When I was a kid I rember reading some sort of product sheet about the differences between a .380 round, a .38 special, a .357 Mag round and a 9mm   and one fo the things they listed for each round was "pentration rating" which was a number assinged  to how many 1in thick pine boards the round would penetrate at 50 ft.  I recall the .380 having a rating of 2  but the 9mm having a rating of 10.  even if your stray round was lucky enough to hit a wall stud after going through your drywall, I've yet to see a framing stud that's thicker than about 3 in or so,  meaning the shot from your Glock has enough juice to exit your house and go through the wall of the mcMansion next door with enough energy to still be lethal.
 
2013-01-25 10:37:04 AM
Is it time to consider renaming the politics tab to the gun control tab? Batting 5/5 so far today...
 
2013-01-25 10:37:17 AM

oldfarthenry: cameroncrazy1984: I remember a guy in these threads claiming he needed an AR with a thirty-round clip to "clear his house" if he were ever robbed. Talk about overkill.

Maybe he has really poor eyesight - or is bloody hopeless at that "aiming" thingee?


Or a really big house.  Maybe he's going out "Scarface" style.  "SAY 'HELLO' TO MY LIL' FRIEND!"
 
2013-01-25 10:38:29 AM

cameroncrazy1984: I remember a guy in these threads claiming he needed an AR with a thirty-round clip to "clear his house" if he were ever robbed. Talk about overkill.


This; if you need an AR with a 30-round clip, then you're a bad farkin' shot to begin with.
 
2013-01-25 10:38:56 AM

bulldg4life: TwistedIvory: There are far costlier social ills that have been blanket permission by the federal government (e.g. smoking and drinking and distracted driving)

Have you seen all the shiat you have to do just to have a car and legally operate it on a roadway? How do you feel that compares to what is needed to have a gun?


i remember voting rights threads last year where people said it was an unconstitutional burden to require someone to go to the dmv to get a free voter id because it might cost money to get a copy of a birth certificate or be a pain in the ass to get a ride down to the dmv.

i'm not a gun nut, but if that's the level of protection fark is putting on constitutional rights, then you can't really compare gun ownership to car operation.
 
2013-01-25 10:39:03 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: A Responsible Gun Owner doesn't care that a shot from his assault rifle will go through a home intruder, an inner wall, his child, an outer wall, and into the house across the street, finally coming to rest in a dog.

A liberal gets a shotgun loaded with 00 Buckshot and makes sure to aim at the intruder.


I see what you did there

/not a liberal
//getting a shotgun
 
2013-01-25 10:39:18 AM

Nabb1: Probably a fine idea from a practical standpoint, but you don't have a constitutional right to keep and bear motor vehicles on roadways.


Hey, I'm not the one that keeps bringing up the ridiculous "but more people get killed in car accidents" argument when trying to ignore gun control discussion. But, if people are going to bring it up as some sort of deflection...then I'm going to point out that our "car control" regulations are infinitely more strict that most "gun control" regulations.
 
2013-01-25 10:40:08 AM
The fact that AR-15s are flying off the shelves tells me that everyone buying them for home defense are clueless about firearms, since a pump shotgun is a better option at one-third the cost.
Those .223 rounds have a bad habit of blowing through interior walls and shredding little Johnny asleep in his bed.
 
2013-01-25 10:40:12 AM

Codenamechaz: I like how the article writer seems completely perplexed that Biden is actually recommending a gun.

As if they expected Biden to follow the liberal stereotype of "ALL GUNS ARE THE EVILEST THING FROM THE PIT OF SATAN'S COLON AND SHOULD BE BURNED!"


I'm guessing the writer doesn't understand something called "common sense."
 
2013-01-25 10:41:04 AM
But what about when my castle is under siege by these new breeds of dangerous minorities with chitinous skin huh? Shotguns can't penetrate that shiat!

STUDY IT OUT!
 
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