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(NYPost)   Brazen gun dealer shows us how you sell guns on the streets of New York. You know, that city with all those laws   (nypost.com) divider line 212
    More: Scary, New York, arms trafficking, gangster movie, gun dealers, Rikers Island, manhattan da, assault weapons, Sentell Smith  
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12420 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jan 2013 at 10:06 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-25 12:38:55 PM  

DubyaHater: [dancingczars.files.wordpress.com image 504x367]


ahh the ol' Hitler gun control myth...

research...is fun

/yes it would require reading
 
2013-01-25 12:39:15 PM  

here to help: morgen_benner: 2. The Newtown shooting unfolded in what a few minutes?

Oh and that part of my proposal is aimed at keeping high powered weapons from being sold to/stolen by the filthy criminals ya'll claim to be so worried about.


It could however stop some massacres by:

a) verifying the person picking up the weapons is indeed the owner of said weapons

b) if the gun owner is acting sketchy or a warrant has already been put out for their arrest or their gun owner status has changed due to the onset of mental problems

c) it can give police a list of potential suspects if a crime takes place making it easier for them to track them down
d) general deterrent and a chance for someone in rage mode have an opportunity to calm down/think about what they are about to do and possibly choose not to
 
2013-01-25 12:40:40 PM  

Kit Fister: here to help: morgen_benner: 2. The Newtown shooting unfolded in what a few minutes?

Oh and that part of my proposal is aimed at keeping high powered weapons from being sold to/stolen by the filthy criminals ya'll claim to be so worried about.

frankly, there're enough options out there to store firearms securely and prevent the theft of weapons that casual theft should be extremely difficult. Someone should have to literally cut open your safe, or cut off a body part to steal your weapon, because it's secured in such a way as to be inaccessible by anyone.


Mine are in a 900+lb safe that has 14 1.5" hardened steel locking bolts and it's bolted to the floor. This is in a house with nobody living in it but me. Good enough??
 
2013-01-25 12:40:58 PM  

Farkage: Kit Fister: Farkage: The coast guard is not a militia. And along the same lines, if you own a car you must now spend 2 days a month using it as a taxi and complete taxi driver training as well. Just because I've decided it's the right thing to do.

I didn't say COAST guard. I said NATIONAL guard. You know, the weekend warriors. The amateur leaguers they send to screw stuff up in Iraq and A-stan.

What I'm saying is, we have those of us who train and train and play with guns also stand in as the homeland defense rather than having a special paramilitary force which can be misused to fight wars, while also providing help and support during disasters, etc.

Better training, better availability of equipment, but at the same time, you have the requirement for training so that the nutjob 'tards get identified really fast and taken care of.

Sort of like Switzerland, except keeping a standing army for EXTERNAL defense.

My mistake, I meant National Guard. I was talking to someone while I typed that, but my statement of you "volunteering" for taxi duty still applies. Thank you for your service.


I did that in Colorado -- I volunteered to pick people up that traveled along the same route to work I did, and dropped them off at their jobs, and then gave them a ride back to the designated spots where they wanted to go. Split the cost of gas and all that, and occasionally they'd buy the coffee/breakfast.

That being said, I think that if we're really serious about saying "Look, I own this weapon for self defense, defense of home, etc." then it's rather dumb that those same people wouldn't say, on a voluntary basis, "sure, I'd like to get more skilled at other aspects of defense that would make me more effective" and at the same time acknowledge that the oft-touted Militia clause of the US Code means that, should it be necessary, they are there to backstop the Police and the Military in aiding for the common defense of the country.
 
2013-01-25 12:42:15 PM  

Kit Fister: frankly, there're enough options out there to store firearms securely and prevent the theft of weapons that casual theft should be extremely difficult. Someone should have to literally cut open your safe, or cut off a body part to steal your weapon, because it's secured in such a way as to be inaccessible by anyone.


Unless of course a family member or acquaintance manages to get a hold of the key on the sly or through force... which is what seems to have happened in Newtown. But I'm not clear as to whether the mother actually had the guns under lock and key but the point still stands.
 
2013-01-25 12:42:19 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Do you know who else had laws?


i had lols....then i had them again. for the lols..

OH LAWS...never mind...

this guy..he has kids so..he has laws....

data.whicdn.com
 
2013-01-25 12:42:41 PM  

Farkage: Kit Fister: here to help: morgen_benner: 2. The Newtown shooting unfolded in what a few minutes?

Oh and that part of my proposal is aimed at keeping high powered weapons from being sold to/stolen by the filthy criminals ya'll claim to be so worried about.

frankly, there're enough options out there to store firearms securely and prevent the theft of weapons that casual theft should be extremely difficult. Someone should have to literally cut open your safe, or cut off a body part to steal your weapon, because it's secured in such a way as to be inaccessible by anyone.

Mine are in a 900+lb safe that has 14 1.5" hardened steel locking bolts and it's bolted to the floor. This is in a house with nobody living in it but me. Good enough??


Just wait, with tools, until you leave.
 
2013-01-25 12:42:41 PM  

Farkage: Kit Fister: here to help: morgen_benner: 2. The Newtown shooting unfolded in what a few minutes?

Oh and that part of my proposal is aimed at keeping high powered weapons from being sold to/stolen by the filthy criminals ya'll claim to be so worried about.

frankly, there're enough options out there to store firearms securely and prevent the theft of weapons that casual theft should be extremely difficult. Someone should have to literally cut open your safe, or cut off a body part to steal your weapon, because it's secured in such a way as to be inaccessible by anyone.

Mine are in a 900+lb safe that has 14 1.5" hardened steel locking bolts and it's bolted to the floor. This is in a house with nobody living in it but me. Good enough??


Good enough for me, but I ain't the one ya gotta deter, brother.
 
2013-01-25 12:46:11 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: Farkage: Kit Fister: here to help: morgen_benner: 2. The Newtown shooting unfolded in what a few minutes?

Oh and that part of my proposal is aimed at keeping high powered weapons from being sold to/stolen by the filthy criminals ya'll claim to be so worried about.

frankly, there're enough options out there to store firearms securely and prevent the theft of weapons that casual theft should be extremely difficult. Someone should have to literally cut open your safe, or cut off a body part to steal your weapon, because it's secured in such a way as to be inaccessible by anyone.

Mine are in a 900+lb safe that has 14 1.5" hardened steel locking bolts and it's bolted to the floor. This is in a house with nobody living in it but me. Good enough??

Just wait, with tools, until you leave.


Look, there's no way that ANY system of preventing weapons from getting into the hands of criminals will work. Banned from private ownership? Kill a cop and steal his guns. Can't do that? Break into a Nat'l Guard armory and steal their guns. That doesn't work? Call up some well-connected drug dealers and buy 'em from the Cartels who bought them from the Bolivian military among other people. Cartels out? Travel to the middle east and buy some from the terrorists. Or, know a crooked machine shop? Pay them to make you an AK (which can be done in crude 3rd world countries with little sophistication).

The ONLY way to theoretically prevent ANY gun crimes from EVER occurring is to completely rid the planet of them, and the knowledge of how to make them, and the materials used to make them, and any other weapon possibly used to kill until you lock everyone up in a pod and let them out only in a virtual world.
 
2013-01-25 12:46:16 PM  

here to help: iheartscotch: Gun control really only affects law-abiding citizens. If you think for one second that banning semi-automatic weapons will prevent crazies or criminals getting ahold of them; I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I would sell you.

/ plus, a rock that prevents tiger attacks

People like to say this crap about cities like New York and Chicago but many of those guns come from the surrounding areas and states where the laws are looser. If that weren't the case the GC laws in those cities would be more effective.

*fart*


So although all of Canada has very strict rules governing access to handguns, the ease with which criminals are able to aquire them is because they are easier to get in nearby countries with looser laws like Mexico and Russia?
 
2013-01-25 12:46:21 PM  

here to help: here to help: morgen_benner: 2. The Newtown shooting unfolded in what a few minutes?

Oh and that part of my proposal is aimed at keeping high powered weapons from being sold to/stolen by the filthy criminals ya'll claim to be so worried about.

It could however stop some massacres by:

a) verifying the person picking up the weapons is indeed the owner of said weapons

b) if the gun owner is acting sketchy or a warrant has already been put out for their arrest or their gun owner status has changed due to the onset of mental problems

c) it can give police a list of potential suspects if a crime takes place making it easier for them to track them down
d) general deterrent and a chance for someone in rage mode have an opportunity to calm down/think about what they are about to do and possibly choose not to


A) Indeed, only the person who owns the gun could use it to commit a crime. A *possible* reduction in crime.
B) Who defines sketchy? Since when is the minimum-wage lackee behind the counter a qualified psychologist?
C) Who cares about a list of suspects if the shooting already happened. Arrest and prosecution don't undo the crime.
D) Maybe, but often in mass murder, the plot was planned out for a while...you have to use mass killings as the test because the original plan was to leave revolvers and such at home which would mean one could still murder a few people at will without checking out their gun first.
 
2013-01-25 12:48:23 PM  

here to help: I personally don't think anyone needs anything beyond some pistols for home and about town protection (preferably low capacity revolvers), rifles for hunting specific local game and a shotgun.


What about shop keepers during a riot, or in a natural disaster like a hurricane? Infrequent, to be sure, but not unheard of.

Also, are you comfortable dictating that your fellow citizens are only ever to be allowed the absolute minimum means of defending themselves? Why would we put the possibility of mis-use above the ability of fellow citizens being best able to defend themselves?
 
2013-01-25 12:48:40 PM  

Kit Fister: Farkage: Kit Fister: here to help: morgen_benner: 2. The Newtown shooting unfolded in what a few minutes?

Oh and that part of my proposal is aimed at keeping high powered weapons from being sold to/stolen by the filthy criminals ya'll claim to be so worried about.

frankly, there're enough options out there to store firearms securely and prevent the theft of weapons that casual theft should be extremely difficult. Someone should have to literally cut open your safe, or cut off a body part to steal your weapon, because it's secured in such a way as to be inaccessible by anyone.

Mine are in a 900+lb safe that has 14 1.5" hardened steel locking bolts and it's bolted to the floor. This is in a house with nobody living in it but me. Good enough??

Good enough for me, but I ain't the one ya gotta deter, brother.


Agreed, but there is just only so far you can go as well. You can make the argument that places that seel blasting supplier are vulnerable to someone with the time and determination to get them.
Personally, I refuse to let mine walk away. Can someone get them? Yep. Will they at least have to earn the hell out of it? Yep.
 
2013-01-25 12:49:03 PM  
Of course, I could do that and it wouldn't be illegal.
 
2013-01-25 12:49:04 PM  

morgen_benner: A) Indeed, only the person who owns the gun could use it to commit a crime. A *possible* reduction in crime.
B) Who defines sketchy? Since when is the minimum-wage lackee behind the counter a qualified psychologist?
C) Who cares about a list of suspects if the shooting already happened. Arrest and prosecution don't undo the crime.
D) Maybe, but often in mass murder, the plot was planned out for a while...you have to use mass killings as the test because the original plan was to leave revolvers and such at home which would mean one could still murder a few people at will without checking out their gun first.


You are not interested in discussing solutions.

*fart*
 
2013-01-25 12:52:13 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Also, are you comfortable dictating that your fellow citizens are only ever to be allowed the absolute minimum means of defending themselves? Why would we put the possibility of mis-use above the ability of fellow citizens being best able to defend themselves?


Pistols and shotguns are good enough to defend yourself until you can escape a volatile situation. What are you, freaking Rambo? You're gonna start machine gunning down a riot instead of getting the frack out of there? lol... responsible gun owner.
 
2013-01-25 12:52:31 PM  
This article refers to him as a gun dealer.....I call bullfark.....what is his FFL License number.....He is not a dealer he is just a criminal.
 
2013-01-25 12:53:01 PM  

Farkage: Mine are in a 900+lb safe that has 14 1.5" hardened steel locking bolts and it's bolted to the floor. This is in a house with nobody living in it but me. Good enough??


Mine is slightly lighter, slightly fewer bolts, but is anchored to the cement slab underneath my living room with 6 Red Head anchors. We have 4 IP cameras that record locally and in a cloud application, and a remote monitored alarm. I feel like I have done as much as or possibly more than a range would do to guarantee the safety of my firearms.
 
2013-01-25 12:53:19 PM  

Farkage: Kit Fister: Farkage: Kit Fister: here to help: morgen_benner: 2. The Newtown shooting unfolded in what a few minutes?

Oh and that part of my proposal is aimed at keeping high powered weapons from being sold to/stolen by the filthy criminals ya'll claim to be so worried about.

frankly, there're enough options out there to store firearms securely and prevent the theft of weapons that casual theft should be extremely difficult. Someone should have to literally cut open your safe, or cut off a body part to steal your weapon, because it's secured in such a way as to be inaccessible by anyone.

Mine are in a 900+lb safe that has 14 1.5" hardened steel locking bolts and it's bolted to the floor. This is in a house with nobody living in it but me. Good enough??

Good enough for me, but I ain't the one ya gotta deter, brother.

Agreed, but there is just only so far you can go as well. You can make the argument that places that seel blasting supplier are vulnerable to someone with the time and determination to get them.
Personally, I refuse to let mine walk away. Can someone get them? Yep. Will they at least have to earn the hell out of it? Yep.


If I really wanted to, I could get explosives from construction sights. They're not even all that well secured, comparatively. It's a matter of desire.
 
2013-01-25 12:55:25 PM  

Kit Fister: Farkage: Kit Fister: Farkage: Kit Fister: here to help: morgen_benner: 2. The Newtown shooting unfolded in what a few minutes?

Oh and that part of my proposal is aimed at keeping high powered weapons from being sold to/stolen by the filthy criminals ya'll claim to be so worried about.

frankly, there're enough options out there to store firearms securely and prevent the theft of weapons that casual theft should be extremely difficult. Someone should have to literally cut open your safe, or cut off a body part to steal your weapon, because it's secured in such a way as to be inaccessible by anyone.

Mine are in a 900+lb safe that has 14 1.5" hardened steel locking bolts and it's bolted to the floor. This is in a house with nobody living in it but me. Good enough??

Good enough for me, but I ain't the one ya gotta deter, brother.

Agreed, but there is just only so far you can go as well. You can make the argument that places that seel blasting supplier are vulnerable to someone with the time and determination to get them.
Personally, I refuse to let mine walk away. Can someone get them? Yep. Will they at least have to earn the hell out of it? Yep.

If I really wanted to, I could get explosives from construction sights. They're not even all that well secured, comparatively. It's a matter of desire.


Yeah, pretty much my point...
 
2013-01-25 12:58:26 PM  
Anyway... got some stuff to do. I find it a little weird that the thread I came into acting like a complete arsehole is the one that garnered an actual reasonable discussion as opposed to the threads I've participated in being reasonable and then getting hammered on.

Perhaps there is hope for Fark after all.
 
2013-01-25 01:00:15 PM  

here to help: morgen_benner: A) Indeed, only the person who owns the gun could use it to commit a crime. A *possible* reduction in crime.
B) Who defines sketchy? Since when is the minimum-wage lackee behind the counter a qualified psychologist?
C) Who cares about a list of suspects if the shooting already happened. Arrest and prosecution don't undo the crime.
D) Maybe, but often in mass murder, the plot was planned out for a while...you have to use mass killings as the test because the original plan was to leave revolvers and such at home which would mean one could still murder a few people at will without checking out their gun first.

You are not interested in discussing solutions.

*fart*


First, the little "Fart" thing is cute...in like 4th grade.

Second, I am interested in discussing solutions. Safe storage requirements, fine. Education for firearms owners, fine. Greater penalties and enforcement of laws pertaining to illegal purchases, fine. Better access to mental care, fine. Spending my tax money on mental care, fine.

The proposed solution didn't work because a revolver is just as deadly as an AR-15 if you're trying to shoot one or two people. The proposed solution only attacked the rare mass shooting instead of the all-too-common single homicide. The vast majority of people killed with firearms are killed with the kind it was proposed to leave unattended with their owner.
 
2013-01-25 01:02:43 PM  

here to help: Pistols and shotguns are good enough to defend yourself until you can escape a volatile situation.


Not when it's your home. Not when you are outnumbered, not when you cannot get away. If you can get away, you shouldn't even be resorting to a gun in the first place.

I'm not a gun nut (fired a gun four times in my whole life). But I am pointing out that it is a bit much for you to feel that your opinion of "likely scenarios" is sufficient to determine what you consider to be the "acceptable minimum defensive weapon" is. We saw this in the various LA riots, in the wake of Katrina, etc. Again, not a common scenario, but not unheard of either. The police cannot be everywhere. A shop-owner has the right to defend his livelihood.

In most cases, just the prescence of a gun is sufficient to convince a gang of hoodlums to move on down the street, and that's the ideal.

But I'm not quite following your presumption that citizens with a constitutional right should only be allowed the minimum level of protection.

To say nothing of why the criminal acts of a tiny fraction of people cause us to strip away the property and accesability to the weapon of their choice from millions and millions of citizens who have never broken the law? I'm just not seeing the logic. It won't stop a single criminal or madman.
 
2013-01-25 01:02:46 PM  

Kit Fister: The ONLY way to theoretically prevent ANY gun crimes from EVER occurring is to completely rid the planet of them, and the knowledge of how to make them, and the materials used to make them, and any other weapon possibly used to kill until you lock everyone up in a pod and let them out only in a virtual world.


Bingo!

So let solve some other problems that significantly affect more people first then get back to this minority issue.
 
2013-01-25 01:07:39 PM  

here to help: People like to say this crap about cities like New York and Chicago but many of those guns come from the surrounding areas and states where the laws are looser. If that weren't the case the GC laws in those cities would be more effective.


And if the entire USA banned guns (and pressed the magic button that destroyed every single gun in civilian hands), then guns would be smuggled in from Mexico, just like Illegals and Drugs are now.

What's your point?
 
2013-01-25 01:10:08 PM  

fredklein: here to help: People like to say this crap about cities like New York and Chicago but many of those guns come from the surrounding areas and states where the laws are looser. If that weren't the case the GC laws in those cities would be more effective.

And if the entire USA banned guns (and pressed the magic button that destroyed every single gun in civilian hands), then guns would be smuggled in from Mexico, just like Illegals and Drugs are now.

What's your point?


I think the point is, fear.
 
2013-01-25 01:10:44 PM  

Farkage: I stopped reading TFA at "magazine clip"


Ditto after a laugh and a facepalm.

It's like they don't know what to call it so they call it everything just to be safe.

"...along with its magazine clip bullet sheath and 5 bullet rounds of hollow-point teflon-coated cop-killer shells."
 
2013-01-25 01:15:29 PM  

GanjSmokr: Farkage: I stopped reading TFA at "magazine clip"

Ditto after a laugh and a facepalm.

It's like they don't know what to call it so they call it everything just to be safe.

"...along with its magazine clip bullet sheath and 5 bullet rounds of hollow-point teflon-coated cop-killer shells."


Hahaha! Well put!!
 
2013-01-25 01:28:15 PM  

thurstonxhowell: I don't see why we have theft control laws. Things are stolen everyday, proving that these laws are ineffective. If you think that theft control laws will stop criminals from stealing, you're an idiot.


Laws regarding theft are intended to penalize the act, laws banning guns (or anything else) are intended to prevent the act. Fail analogy is fail.
 
2013-01-25 01:35:37 PM  

generallyso: thurstonxhowell: I don't see why we have theft control laws. Things are stolen everyday, proving that these laws are ineffective. If you think that theft control laws will stop criminals from stealing, you're an idiot.

Laws regarding theft are intended to penalize the act, laws banning guns (or anything else) are intended to prevent the act. Fail analogy is fail.


Laws banning theft are intended to prevent your things being stolen. They penalize someone stealing your things.
Laws banning guns are intended to prevent the ownership of guns. They penalize the ownership of guns.
 
2013-01-25 01:37:22 PM  

JerseyTim: Brazen gun dealer shows us how you sell guns on the streets of New York. You know, that city with all those laws the second lowest rate of gun deaths in the country.


So where is NYC on the total deaths? Oh and can you compare NYC to Chicago and DC please?
 
2013-01-25 01:41:26 PM  

thurstonxhowell: If anything, I would think gun lovers like you would like to see more articles like this. Existing gun laws were enforced to catch a man in the act of selling a weapon in the criminal market. Without requiring any new gun control laws.


We do, this is exactly what needs to be happening. The only problems I have with the article is the headline that implies he's a legal dealer rather than his true status as a fence/thief//previously convicted felon and a few politically slanted lines. As far as the actual prosecution goes, they can lock him up forever and I wouldn't care.
 
2013-01-25 01:45:14 PM  

davidab: JerseyTim: Brazen gun dealer shows us how you sell guns on the streets of New York. You know, that city with all those laws the second lowest rate of gun deaths in the country.

So where is NYC on the total deaths? Oh and can you compare NYC to Chicago and DC please?


The gun laws in Chicago and DC are more strict than in NYC, which is why there is less gun crime there.
 
2013-01-25 01:46:48 PM  

here to help: The problem with your comparison is in gun terms the current laws would allow people who have never taken a driving lesson in their life or even read a driver's manual buy an unregistered tractor trailer and drive through residential neighborhoods drunk at 120 mph.


Questionable, likely dishonest metaphor. Firing a gun in most non-rural areas is illegal, outside of shooting ranges. I'd be prepared to accept "rural highways" instead of "residential neighborhoods."
 
2013-01-25 01:49:03 PM  

Farkage: The gun laws in Chicago and DC are more strict than in NYC, which is why there is less gun crime there.

mybroadband.co.za
 
2013-01-25 01:49:14 PM  
Some of these arguments would be ridiculous if they were referencing medicine. Just because you can't eliminate a problem 100% doesn't mean you shouldn't pursue harm reduction.
 
2013-01-25 01:49:50 PM  

morgen_benner: Laws banning theft are intended to prevent your things being stolen. They penalize someone stealing your things.


If you're under the notion that punishment functions as a deterrent I'm just going to point you to the death penalty.
 
2013-01-25 01:50:22 PM  

JustGetItRight: thurstonxhowell: If anything, I would think gun lovers like you would like to see more articles like this. Existing gun laws were enforced to catch a man in the act of selling a weapon in the criminal market. Without requiring any new gun control laws.

We do, this is exactly what needs to be happening. The only problems I have with the article is the headline that implies he's a legal dealer rather than his true status as a fence/thief//previously convicted felon and a few politically slanted lines. As far as the actual prosecution goes, they can lock him up forever and I wouldn't care.


It's like "gunshow loophole."

Intellectually dishonest.
 
2013-01-25 01:51:53 PM  

here to help: morgen_benner: 2. The Newtown shooting unfolded in what a few minutes?

Oh and that part of my proposal is aimed at keeping high powered weapons from being sold to/stolen by the filthy criminals ya'll claim to be so worried about.


Define "high powered."
 
2013-01-25 01:52:51 PM  

GUTSU: here to help: morgen_benner: 2. The Newtown shooting unfolded in what a few minutes?

Oh and that part of my proposal is aimed at keeping high powered weapons from being sold to/stolen by the filthy criminals ya'll claim to be so worried about.

Define "high powered."


Weapons that peasant are not allowed to have.
 
2013-01-25 01:56:56 PM  

generallyso: If you're under the notion that punishment functions as a deterrent I'm just going to point you to the death penalty.



Can you cite a similar society to ours, but without theft laws, to show that theft rates remain unchanged?
 
2013-01-25 02:01:12 PM  
Hey, that cop purchased an illegal firearm. He should be arrested and charged.
 
2013-01-25 02:02:06 PM  

untaken_name: Hey, that cop purchased an illegal firearm. He should be arrested and charged.


There was no crime until the cop showed up.

Isn't Satan the tempter?
 
2013-01-25 02:06:51 PM  

WordyGrrl: Some of these arguments would be ridiculous if they were referencing medicine. Just because you can't eliminate a problem 100% doesn't mean you shouldn't pursue harm reduction.


And if those medicines/drugs were widely available from other sources illegally, people would still take them. It's a good thing we have that war on drugs, otherwise millions wouldn't be addicted to coc-wait, no, they are. Well, weed then...oops, my bad... Meth? Hmmm, nope, that's pretty prolific too...What about regulated prescription meds that are only taken by doctor's directives? What? people still buy and take those all the time illegally? Well, shiat, isn't there ANYTHING that restricting drugs has done for us to reduce harm? What's that you say? Nearly 60% of non-suicide gun crimes are related to drugs/gangs that sell drugs? And over 80% of our federal prison population is because of drugs?

Yep, that pursuit of harm reduction sure did prove effective there, WordyGrrl!
 
2013-01-25 02:08:12 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Giltric: There was an article here recently about people getting paid to shill for certain causes

What cause does this shill for?

If anything, I would think gun lovers like you would like to see more articles like this. Existing gun laws were enforced to catch a man in the act of selling a weapon in the criminal market. Without requiring any new gun control laws.


if the article read like the existing laws were working I would approve. However the language used is pandering to the fear mongering going on with these weapons. The truth is rifles (all rifles including bolt action rifles) killed fewer than 350 people in 2011, while fists and feet killed more than 1600 the same year.

Offensive language designed to demonize the Auto-loading Rifle model 15 (yes that is AR 15)
* he carried a loaded assault rifle - Assuault rifles were banned in 1934
* according to evidence in a frightening Manhattan weapons trafficking trial - wait a minute didnt the article also say this happens more than once a month (on average)? "in 2010, the Violent Criminal Enterprises Unit, working with NYPD undercover cops, has taken down 15 trafficking rings"
* magazine clip (the same phrase used by Diane Feinsten who is the face of this movement)
* same caliber as the AR-15-style assault-weapon used in the Newtown massacre - how is the caliber or Newtown pertinent to this case? Isnt it illegal to hunt deer with .223 in a lot of states because it is under powered?

secondamendmentsupporters.com
 
2013-01-25 02:08:13 PM  

here to help: BojanglesPaladin: Also, are you comfortable dictating that your fellow citizens are only ever to be allowed the absolute minimum means of defending themselves? Why would we put the possibility of mis-use above the ability of fellow citizens being best able to defend themselves?

Pistols and shotguns are good enough to defend yourself until you can escape a volatile situation. What are you, freaking Rambo? You're gonna start machine gunning down a riot instead of getting the frack out of there? lol... responsible gun owner.


Pffft, right? How dare people defend their homes, business, and families?
 
2013-01-25 02:08:47 PM  

davidab: JerseyTim: Brazen gun dealer shows us how you sell guns on the streets of New York. You know, that city with all those laws the second lowest rate of gun deaths in the country.

So where is NYC on the total deaths? Oh and can you compare NYC to Chicago and DC please?


With an overall homicide rate of 6.3 per 100,0000, New York CIty is 46th out of 73 American cities with populations over 250,000. New Orleans has the highest rate (57.6) and Lincoln, Nebraska has the lowest (1.5).

And, no, you can't compare NYC to Chicago and DC. NYC is a much better city.
 
2013-01-25 02:12:36 PM  

Kit Fister: WordyGrrl: Some of these arguments would be ridiculous if they were referencing medicine. Just because you can't eliminate a problem 100% doesn't mean you shouldn't pursue harm reduction.

And if those medicines/drugs were widely available from other sources illegally, people would still take them. It's a good thing we have that war on drugs, otherwise millions wouldn't be addicted to coc-wait, no, they are. Well, weed then...oops, my bad... Meth? Hmmm, nope, that's pretty prolific too...What about regulated prescription meds that are only taken by doctor's directives? What? people still buy and take those all the time illegally? Well, shiat, isn't there ANYTHING that restricting drugs has done for us to reduce harm? What's that you say? Nearly 60% of non-suicide gun crimes are related to drugs/gangs that sell drugs? And over 80% of our federal prison population is because of drugs?

Yep, that pursuit of harm reduction sure did prove effective there, WordyGrrl!


I can't get what used to be a common OTC drug for allegies, any more. I am harmed.
 
2013-01-25 02:12:48 PM  

Kit Fister: WordyGrrl: Some of these arguments would be ridiculous if they were referencing medicine. Just because you can't eliminate a problem 100% doesn't mean you shouldn't pursue harm reduction.

And if those medicines/drugs were widely available from other sources illegally, people would still take them. It's a good thing we have that war on drugs, otherwise millions wouldn't be addicted to coc-wait, no, they are. Well, weed then...oops, my bad... Meth? Hmmm, nope, that's pretty prolific too...What about regulated prescription meds that are only taken by doctor's directives? What? people still buy and take those all the time illegally? Well, shiat, isn't there ANYTHING that restricting drugs has done for us to reduce harm? What's that you say? Nearly 60% of non-suicide gun crimes are related to drugs/gangs that sell drugs? And over 80% of our federal prison population is because of drugs?

Yep, that pursuit of harm reduction sure did prove effective there, WordyGrrl!


ftfm
 
2013-01-25 02:19:44 PM  

davidab: However the language used is pandering to the fear mongering going on with these weapons.



Look at how well it's working on people. Like 9/11 all over again. People clamoring for the government to take whatever they want, just make them safe from that event that's statistically about as likely as being struck by lightning.

I'm sure that this first round of legislation will nip that problem right in the bud, too. After all, the first round of PATRIOT legislation worked just fine. No further restrictions and bannings, because the criminals just gave up, and didn't do anything like shifting tactics in response. Nope, when crimes committed with pistols are utterly unaffected by these laws, I'm certain that we won't see any legislation targeting them. After all, why does someone in an urban environment actually need a pistol? They aren't hunting with it.
 
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