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(WTOP)   So just what the heck is an "assault weapon," anyway? A clip? A magazine? Here's your handy-dandy gun glossary so you can sound infromed for the next flamewar   (wtop.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, assault weapons, flame wars, semiautomatic firearms, design change, private ownership, target shooting, Uzi  
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10299 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jan 2013 at 9:53 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-25 10:32:30 AM  

Frank N Stein: ph0rk: Frank N Stein: Also, Alton Brown says fark your gun control

[www.armoryblog.com image 600x803]

Has he actually said anything on the record? Doesn't appear so.

No, but his armory suggest that he's pretty pro-gun. He owns a "SCAR 17, an H&K P30, a Kahr, and a Kimber 1911. And a few dozen others." Link

He's also a pretty devout Christian, which surprised me.


I never liked his show, so his positions don't really affect me. Wise of him not to say anything on-record though.
 
2013-01-25 10:32:45 AM  

Thunderpipes: So the 2nd amendment is the right to hunt?

I doubt the founding fathers intended that to be the meaning, quite the opposite.


Actually the founding fathers were avid sportsmen and were really fond of hunting. I've heard that they intended to pass amendments protecting all sorts of sporting activities from government control: fishing, chess, kite flying, ballet, etc. It was very important to then that no tyrant would come of age and take these leisurely activities from the people.

They only passed the second amendment, however, as that is how fond they were of hunting.
 
2013-01-25 10:32:49 AM  

Minus 1 Charisma: Antimatter: I think the issue will come down to how they define it. me, i'd base the bann of models, or off rate of fire + action (direct gas, gas piston, etc).

I'm not in favor of a ban, however, would be ultimately pretty pointless.

Now, magazine size restrictions could have some effect, as many crimes do involve the use of pistols with high capacity magazines, but you'd never dry up the existing supply of 10+ round mags. With 3d printing, you could quite easily make many of them as well.

Do you know how long it takes to switch magazines in..well..any firearm? Roughly 0 seconds. I dont understand the purpose of this at all.


the VT killer had a single 15 round mag and a backpack full of 10 round magazines. He fired over 150 shots.
 
2013-01-25 10:32:58 AM  
Any Farkers own a Garand? Putting in my order to the CMP today for an M1, a bayonet, and a couple hundred rounds of 30-06.

www.tri-eagle-firearms.com

fark an assault rifle. I'm getting a battle rifle
 
2013-01-25 10:33:07 AM  

Minus 1 Charisma: Do you know how long it takes to switch magazines in..well..any firearm? Roughly 0 seconds. I dont understand the purpose of this at all.


Yeah, I agree. I'm going to feel just as fcucked, regardless of whether the guy shooting at me has a 100-round drum or three 30-round mags.
 
2013-01-25 10:33:17 AM  

Minus 1 Charisma: Antimatter: I think the issue will come down to how they define it. me, i'd base the bann of models, or off rate of fire + action (direct gas, gas piston, etc).

I'm not in favor of a ban, however, would be ultimately pretty pointless.

Now, magazine size restrictions could have some effect, as many crimes do involve the use of pistols with high capacity magazines, but you'd never dry up the existing supply of 10+ round mags. With 3d printing, you could quite easily make many of them as well.

Do you know how long it takes to switch magazines in..well..any firearm? Roughly 0 seconds. I dont understand the purpose of this at all.


Uh, these gunmen are often tackled when reloading. Even if it only takes a second or two, its still a longer pause than the shotest possible time between shots on a semi-automatic, unless you're dealing with someone who is really good and highly trained.
 
2013-01-25 10:33:25 AM  

odinsposse: You may be thinking of the earlier military rifle, the m14. That had 20 round magazines but also had a larger round (7.62mm instead of 5.56mm).


www.imfdb.org

actually, i think the early versions did have a 20-round magazine.

www.nd.gov

the later versions had the 30-round mag.
 
2013-01-25 10:33:29 AM  
Bear in mind, "assault weapons" are spray fired weapons designed to be held at the hip, and designed to kill as many as people as possible in a short amount of time.

This is why the police department in every town, city, county, state across the country will still be able to buy them at will.
 
2013-01-25 10:33:47 AM  

Rich Cream: HansoSparxx: I thought that an "Assault Weapon" was just a weapon primarily used to Assault someone with.

How many bullets does it normally take to kill a harmless fuzzy creature anyway?


Please define a defensive weapon that has no offensive capability.


Keyword you used is "Weapon". Weapons assault.

Did you have a point to make?
 
2013-01-25 10:34:08 AM  

Frank N Stein: Any Farkers own a Garand? Putting in my order to the CMP today for an M1, a bayonet, and a couple hundred rounds of 30-06.

[www.tri-eagle-firearms.com image 850x558]


hey, look! clips!
 
2013-01-25 10:34:11 AM  

Dimensio: Would Senator Feinstein's proposal cause the replacement of the barrel of my Springfield Armory XD45 Compact with a threaded barrel transform the firearm into an "assault weapon"?


Yes.

The Walther P-22 is also an "assault weapon" because it has a threaded barrel.
 
2013-01-25 10:34:37 AM  
An "assault weapon" is whatever the anti's say it is. They're constantly redefining and expanding the phrase.

When the police have the same thing, they call them "patrol rifles".
 
2013-01-25 10:34:56 AM  

dinch: How many millions of AR-15's have been sold in the US? How would a weapons ban, at this point, do anything to limit their use in crime? Make people with an FFL take a course in picking up on mental derangements would do more than a weapons ban.


Best guess? Something more than 3.5 million sold.

This New York Time article says 3.2 to 3.5 million since 1986:

Gun makers do not release sales figures for specific types of firearms. But Mr. Halbrook, who compiled manufacturing estimates for a lawsuit, said that by a conservative estimate, 3.3 million to 3.5 million AR-15s were made in the United States from 1986 through the first half of this year and were not exported.

The AR-15 was first sold to civilians in 1964, so it's likely to a bit higher, and remember, those numbers are "conservative". It could be significantly higher.

The AR-15 approaches the popularity of the quintessential bolt action deer rifle, the Remington 700, of which roughly 5 million have sold since its introduction in 1962.
 
2013-01-25 10:35:09 AM  

Frank N Stein: Any Farkers own a Garand? Putting in my order to the CMP today for an M1, a bayonet, and a couple hundred rounds of 30-06.

[www.tri-eagle-firearms.com image 850x558]

fark an assault rifle. I'm getting a battle rifle


that's a pretty weapon. but personally i want a lee-enfield .303.
 
2013-01-25 10:35:58 AM  

Source4leko: Huh, the BAR isn't on that list. Because its not like that was designed for warfare or anything. Oh wait, its not a scary looking black rifle, nevermind.


I thought they banned the BAR in the 30's?
 
2013-01-25 10:36:38 AM  

FlashHarry: hey, look! clips!


BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG PING!
 
2013-01-25 10:36:39 AM  

CPennypacker: Uh, these gunmen are often tackled when reloading. Even if it only takes a second or two, its still a longer pause than the shotest possible time between shots on a semi-automatic, unless you're dealing with someone who is really good and highly trained.


They're almost never tackled while reloading.

The major ones-virginia tech and sandy hook had the shooter reloading multiple times without it apparently making a difference. At VT, he brought 19 magazines and investigators found 15 empty mags strewn about; at Sandy Hook, the shooter left half loaded magazines everywhere.
The Aurora shooter simply switched guns when his jammed.

The only time anyone can say that magazines did anything at all is Tucson. Once.
 
2013-01-25 10:37:39 AM  

CPennypacker: Uh, these gunmen are often tackled when reloading


I can only think of Laughner being tackled.....who are the others?
 
2013-01-25 10:37:41 AM  

pedrop357: The Aurora shooter simply switched guns when his jammed.


Ah, so if his mother had been only able to own one gun...
 
2013-01-25 10:37:53 AM  
 
2013-01-25 10:37:56 AM  
I'm so old I gave up during the engine-motor debates.
 
2013-01-25 10:38:13 AM  

tommyl66: Are we almost done with all the "I Love My Guns" and "Your Guns Are Scary" dick-waving already? Can we move on to more important things, like figuring out how we can improve mental health care so John Q. Wackadoodle gets the help he needs before he decides shooting up his office is the only choice he has?


Would impoving mental health care have prevented 9/11?
 
2013-01-25 10:38:17 AM  

ph0rk: pedrop357: The Aurora shooter simply switched guns when his jammed.

Ah, so if his mother had been only able to own one gun...


Er, not his mother. Same knee-jerk point though.
 
2013-01-25 10:38:32 AM  

FlashHarry: Frank N Stein: Any Farkers own a Garand? Putting in my order to the CMP today for an M1, a bayonet, and a couple hundred rounds of 30-06.

[www.tri-eagle-firearms.com image 850x558]

hey, look! clips!


Assault clips.
 
2013-01-25 10:38:59 AM  

ph0rk: " The police carried lasers."


What year was this?
 
2013-01-25 10:39:02 AM  

Giltric: Citrate1007: Dimensio: Citrate1007: Radical gun nuts are attracted to "assault weapons" because they get a power trip liking themselves to Rambo. This god complex is often present in sociopath so there is a reason why they are often used for mass murder. The thing is, if you deny them the shiny Rambo guns it will not stop their god complex. They will just bust a nut over whatever weapon they can find that makes them feel powerful.

Your hypothesis is interesting, and I eagerly await the references to the substantial body of supporting data that you will be able to provide.

Exhibit A

If he wanted real unadulterated power he should have ran for office to exert his will on the people.


He wasn't evil enough to be a politician.
 
2013-01-25 10:39:03 AM  

Dimensio: Would Senator Feinstein's proposal cause the replacement of the barrel of my Springfield Armory XD45 Compact with a threaded barrel transform the firearm into an "assault weapon"?


That military high-capicity clip would.

Not the 10 round.
 
2013-01-25 10:39:16 AM  
Given the extra control one gets from a pistol grip, I wonder if there may be an ADA complaint to be made with any law that restricts or bans pistol grips.

Oh and Dimensio, I went with the Butler Creek folding stock in stainless steel for mine. The balance is excellent, much better than the all-plastic models.
 
2013-01-25 10:39:50 AM  

Minus 1 Charisma: Antimatter: I think the issue will come down to how they define it. me, i'd base the bann of models, or off rate of fire + action (direct gas, gas piston, etc).

I'm not in favor of a ban, however, would be ultimately pretty pointless.

Now, magazine size restrictions could have some effect, as many crimes do involve the use of pistols with high capacity magazines, but you'd never dry up the existing supply of 10+ round mags. With 3d printing, you could quite easily make many of them as well.

Do you know how long it takes to switch magazines in..well..any firearm? Roughly 0 seconds. I dont understand the purpose of this at all.


It's because the left won't listen to anyone who knows anything about guns, and the right won't budge on anything about guns. So we have one side that has all the information and willfully ignorant other side who won't talk to the side with the information. Gun owning liberals like myself would happy to talk with Sen. Feinstein and VP Biden about guns. Heck, Joe could talk to his son who is in the Army (even though he's a pog). But no one will talk to anyone else. The Army trained me on how to drop mags and reload as quickly as possible. We used to do mag drills just for fun when we were bored. Overcoming magazine restrictions just takes training and someone who is dedicated can change magazines before anyone even realizes the shooting has stopped. I wish they would just ask. Not all gun owners are foaming at the mouth die-hard conservatives. I learned to love to shoot in the Army and I consider the AR I own to a tangible link to my past life as a Soldier. It also bothers me a little that the government trained me to use their most basic weapon (which I can kind of own as a civilian) but doesn't trust me anymore once I am a civilian. This is not an argument that M1 crews should be able to own a tank, or ADA can own a stinger, but I can already own an AR and I'm not likely to miss use it or be irresponsible with it.
 
2013-01-25 10:40:28 AM  
Gun farm.
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-25 10:40:29 AM  

JohnCarter: ph0rk: " The police carried lasers."

What year was this?


According to John Haldeman, around 2023.
 
2013-01-25 10:40:49 AM  
"AR" does not stand for "assult rifle".
 
2013-01-25 10:40:51 AM  

PC LOAD LETTER: Source4leko: Huh, the BAR isn't on that list. Because its not like that was designed for warfare or anything. Oh wait, its not a scary looking black rifle, nevermind.

I thought they banned the BAR in the 30's?


nope.

they range in price from 5k to like 20k.
 
2013-01-25 10:41:41 AM  

FlashHarry: Frank N Stein: Any Farkers own a Garand? Putting in my order to the CMP today for an M1, a bayonet, and a couple hundred rounds of 30-06.

[www.tri-eagle-firearms.com image 850x558]

fark an assault rifle. I'm getting a battle rifle

that's a pretty weapon. but personally i want a lee-enfield .303.


I've owned both, and quite frankly, I'd take the M-1 over the SMLE.

Don't get me wrong, I love me a good No 4, and owned one for two decades. If I were limited to just a bolt-action battle rifle, the SMLE would be my first pick over the Springfields, Mausers, and what-have-you. But the M-1 Garand is, well, *SPECIAL*.

Of all the guns I've owned and sold over the years, that's the one I regret selling the most.
 
2013-01-25 10:42:06 AM  

Ivandrago: It's because the left won't listen to anyone who knows anything about guns,


I think if a group knowledgeable about guns had some proposals other than "arm everyone, everywhere" people, including "the left" would listen.


But there does not appear to be any group offering that message, at least not that the public can see.
 
2013-01-25 10:42:55 AM  

impaler: FYI: the "plastic parts" are for people that have to carry a gun around on their person, for weeks at a time, in various environmental conditions (you know, soldiers). There, it's nice to have a lighter weapon.

For the nutball that picks up a gun and goes out shooting, it gives no advantage.


I agree. It's a stupid reason to buy a weapon.

It's an equally stupid reason to ban one.
 
2013-01-25 10:43:00 AM  

Deep Contact: Gun farm.
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 392x263]


I'm assuming someone spilled a bunch of 7.62x39mm in a field somewhere.
 
2013-01-25 10:43:24 AM  

Ivandrago: Gun owning liberals like myself would happy to talk with Sen. Feinstein and VP Biden about guns. Heck, Joe could talk to his son who is in the Army (even though he's a pog).


I would speak to Biden on the issue. He seems reasonable enough. Feinstein, however, set the gun control bar too high for me being interested in meeting her at the negotiation table.

And yes, he is a pog. Even though, as a former Coast Guardsmen myself, I have no right to speak as combat wasn't our main objective.
 
2013-01-25 10:43:39 AM  

pedrop357: CPennypacker: Uh, these gunmen are often tackled when reloading. Even if it only takes a second or two, its still a longer pause than the shotest possible time between shots on a semi-automatic, unless you're dealing with someone who is really good and highly trained.

They're almost never tackled while reloading.

The major ones-virginia tech and sandy hook had the shooter reloading multiple times without it apparently making a difference. At VT, he brought 19 magazines and investigators found 15 empty mags strewn about; at Sandy Hook, the shooter left half loaded magazines everywhere.
The Aurora shooter simply switched guns when his jammed.

The only time anyone can say that magazines did anything at all is Tucson. Once.


LIRR Massacre - 1993

Link

Thurston High School Massacre - 1998

Link

Thats two from a 5 second google with no effort. Plus Tuscon. And I'm sure if I wanted to put the effort into it I'd find more.

But carry on with the "it wouldn't do ANYTHING so we shouldn't do it" BS
 
2013-01-25 10:44:06 AM  

Deep Contact: Gun farm.
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 392x263]


Don't fark with gunfarmers.
 
2013-01-25 10:44:29 AM  

dittybopper: Of all the guns I've owned and sold over the years, that's the one I regret selling the most.


Get yourself a CMP M1 while you can. Current supplies will probably run out within the next few years.
 
2013-01-25 10:44:45 AM  

pedrop357: Bear in mind, "assault weapons" are spray fired weapons designed to be held at the hip, and designed to kill as many as people as possible in a short amount of time.

This is why the police department in every town, city, county, state across the country will still be able to buy them at will.


Nad don't forget kiddies: the proper stance to fire a handgun is by holding it's grip on a horizontal plain (firin' gangsta) or firing at your intended target while rolling on the ground between perfectly good points of cover.

(hopefully you were being as sarcastic when you were talking about the extensive use of "hip firing" in armed conflict).
 
2013-01-25 10:44:49 AM  
Duh. An assault weapon has a shoulder thing that goes up.
 
2013-01-25 10:45:42 AM  

ph0rk: I think if a group knowledgeable about guns had some proposals other than "arm everyone, everywhere" people, including "the left" would listen.


Strawman.

No one is saying that everyone should be armed everywhere. We are "pro-choice". If you don't want to be armed, fine, I don't want to force to do be armed against your will.
 
2013-01-25 10:45:44 AM  

ph0rk: Ivandrago: It's because the left won't listen to anyone who knows anything about guns,

I think if a group knowledgeable about guns had some proposals other than "arm everyone, everywhere" people, including "the left" would listen.


But there does not appear to be any group offering that message, at least not that the public can see.


Thank you. Your response is a perfect illustration of ph0rk's statement: you entirely ignored the primary content of his statement to argue against a position that he did not take.
 
2013-01-25 10:45:48 AM  

The Smails Kid: Duh. An assault weapon has a shoulder thing that goes up.


A rocket powered grenade?
 
2013-01-25 10:46:24 AM  
You call that an assault weapon? Now this is a scary assault weapon.
 
2013-01-25 10:46:47 AM  

dittybopper: I've owned both, and quite frankly, I'd take the M-1 over the SMLE.

Don't get me wrong, I love me a good No 4, and owned one for two decades. If I were limited to just a bolt-action battle rifle, the SMLE would be my first pick over the Springfields, Mausers, and what-have-you. But the M-1 Garand is, well, *SPECIAL*.


being born and raised british, i have an affinity for the SMLE. but the garand is a great weapon for sure.
 
2013-01-25 10:47:22 AM  

boozehat: "AR" does not stand for "assult rifle".


i thought it stood for armalite - the company that developed it in the 50s.
 
2013-01-25 10:47:54 AM  

syrynxx: It would be more helpful if it clarified that the term "assault rifle", which a lot of people mis-use, is a fully-automatic-capable rifle and there are very few of them in actual circulation.

An "assault weapon" is a political term only, and unless you live in a state like California or Connecticut with a state law, there is no such thing as an assault weapon under current laws.


Exactly...

Nobody will go to this link, but I am going to repost it anyway, this seems like as good a place as any...

The Truth About Assault Weapons

 
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