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(New York Daily News)   Armor contractor invents bulletproof whiteboards for teachers to use during school shootings. Next up: tear-gas erasers   (nydailynews.com) divider line 105
    More: Asinine, George Tunis, Second Amendment Foundation, school shootings, University of Delaware, Murphy's Law  
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3428 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2013 at 8:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-25 04:12:58 PM

spacelord321: Keizer_Ghidorah: spacelord321: BraveNewCheneyWorld: spacelord321: What do you believe "the root fundamental reasons for violence" are?

Don't hold your breath for an answer. He wants to say the root cause is guns, but he can't because it's demonstrably false, but he won't say the root cause is anything else, because then he'd be admitting that his gun control fixation is pointless.

We have thousands of years of proof that laws, and disarmament do not prevent violence. The best we can do is allow our fellow man to be ready when he's targeted.

I know. I hold out hope, however.

So you've already forgotten about the list I posted in the other thread? I thought we were cool.

And to you, BraveNewCheneyWorld, your psychic mind-reading powers are not working, because I do not want to say that and never have. I've spent plenty of time telling you this and offered a list of possible solutions that did not "blame" guns. The least you could do is try to discuss things in an intelligent and civil manner..

Oh, I like you. I believe you truly want compromise. Your "blood of the innocents and children" part was over the top, however, and equivalent to the "commie socialist" response that you have come to expect. I don't remember you list, to be honest. Their are a couple antis that I feel do present themselves well and I can tend to confuse who brought up what. There are a ton of trolls, and it's hard to wade through the crap.

My response to Cheney was about the apparent hoplesness of the gun debate in general. I've seen concede a point or two, and as I said, hold out hope.


Sometimes it seems that's the real motive, since I've yet to see a lot of ideas or options from the pro-gun side (on Fark at least) that isn't "Arm everyone and their mother" or "Doing anything at all violates my rights". Yes, I've seen the "Ban them all" people on the anti-gun side, but they're fewer in number, and the people who want something done without infringing rights get attacked with just as much ferocity and broad-stroking by the pro-gun side (as BraveNewCheneyWorld so helpfully demonstrates. No matter how much I tell him I'm on his side, don't want a ban, offer my solutions, be civil with him, and ask him to stop deflecting with "More people die in car accidents, why aren't we doing anything about that?!", every single response he makes to me is filled with "YOUR SIDE! YOU PEOPLE!", personal attacks, repeating himself, and generally being a temperamental little kid).

Honestly, I'm on both sides here. I don't think banning will work, but I also don't think arming everyone and armor-plating everything is the answer either.
 
2013-01-25 04:14:08 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: spacelord321: BraveNewCheneyWorld: spacelord321: What do you believe "the root fundamental reasons for violence" are?

Don't hold your breath for an answer. He wants to say the root cause is guns, but he can't because it's demonstrably false, but he won't say the root cause is anything else, because then he'd be admitting that his gun control fixation is pointless.

We have thousands of years of proof that laws, and disarmament do not prevent violence. The best we can do is allow our fellow man to be ready when he's targeted.

I know. I hold out hope, however.

So you've already forgotten about the list I posted in the other thread? I thought we were cool.

And to you, BraveNewCheneyWorld, your psychic mind-reading powers are not working, because I do not want to say that and never have. I've spent plenty of time telling you this and offered a list of possible solutions that did not "blame" guns. The least you could do is try to discuss things in an intelligent and civil manner..


Actually, I do remember the list as being mostly reasonable. For some reason I remember you being fairly hostile to the 2nd amendment, I could have been thinking of someone else.
 
2013-01-25 04:34:14 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Keizer_Ghidorah: spacelord321: BraveNewCheneyWorld: spacelord321: What do you believe "the root fundamental reasons for violence" are?

Don't hold your breath for an answer. He wants to say the root cause is guns, but he can't because it's demonstrably false, but he won't say the root cause is anything else, because then he'd be admitting that his gun control fixation is pointless.

We have thousands of years of proof that laws, and disarmament do not prevent violence. The best we can do is allow our fellow man to be ready when he's targeted.

I know. I hold out hope, however.

So you've already forgotten about the list I posted in the other thread? I thought we were cool.

And to you, BraveNewCheneyWorld, your psychic mind-reading powers are not working, because I do not want to say that and never have. I've spent plenty of time telling you this and offered a list of possible solutions that did not "blame" guns. The least you could do is try to discuss things in an intelligent and civil manner..

Actually, I do remember the list as being mostly reasonable. For some reason I remember you being fairly hostile to the 2nd amendment, I could have been thinking of someone else.


I was never hostile to the 2nd Amendment.
 
2013-01-25 04:35:31 PM

spacelord321: Pert: This would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

The US seems to be looking at bandaid solutions to patch up the symptoms, not the causes of the problems.

Measures like this one (or arming staff, or fortifying schools) should shame the entire country. The US is looking more and more like a lawless, third world hell hole than the fine country I know it to be.

Can anyone find me another first world developed country that feels it has to put these measures in place to stop mass shootings?

Seems to me like every single section of your society has to compromise except the gun owners.

Are you going to offer ideas, or just whine about everyone elses?

The pro gun crowd has given up a lot of ground over the past couple decades. You want more? Keep working through legislation, and we'll continue to fight it through legislation. Our solutions are no less valid than yours, from our point of view, so we must learn to sway each other with facts and reason. The ideas / morals of this country, and the mechanisms for altering them, are bigger then any one of us. We must respect those mechanisms of state, even if they shield our political opponents, because they are also our fellow citizens.

This a knee-jerk solution to knee-jerk reactions. WTF are you doing so special? Have you at least written you congressman?


Don't have one. Am British.
 
2013-01-25 09:00:25 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: spacelord321: Keizer_Ghidorah: spacelord321: BraveNewCheneyWorld: spacelord321: What do you believe "the root fundamental reasons for violence" are?

Don't hold your breath for an answer. He wants to say the root cause is guns, but he can't because it's demonstrably false, but he won't say the root cause is anything else, because then he'd be admitting that his gun control fixation is pointless.

We have thousands of years of proof that laws, and disarmament do not prevent violence. The best we can do is allow our fellow man to be ready when he's targeted.

I know. I hold out hope, however.

So you've already forgotten about the list I posted in the other thread? I thought we were cool.

And to you, BraveNewCheneyWorld, your psychic mind-reading powers are not working, because I do not want to say that and never have. I've spent plenty of time telling you this and offered a list of possible solutions that did not "blame" guns. The least you could do is try to discuss things in an intelligent and civil manner..

Oh, I like you. I believe you truly want compromise. Your "blood of the innocents and children" part was over the top, however, and equivalent to the "commie socialist" response that you have come to expect. I don't remember you list, to be honest. Their are a couple antis that I feel do present themselves well and I can tend to confuse who brought up what. There are a ton of trolls, and it's hard to wade through the crap.

My response to Cheney was about the apparent hoplesness of the gun debate in general. I've seen concede a point or two, and as I said, hold out hope.

Sometimes it seems that's the real motive, since I've yet to see a lot of ideas or options from the pro-gun side (on Fark at least) that isn't "Arm everyone and their mother" or "Doing anything at all violates my rights". Yes, I've seen the "Ban them all" people on the anti-gun side, but they're fewer in number, and the people who want something done without infringing rights get attacked ...


Ok. Armor plating, max security schools, I am not for. Banning I am not for. CCW faculty is the only reasonable way I can see to confront the immediate problem. These attacks are just too random to believe that any kind of stop measures will be enough without a rapid, on site response with equal or greater force.

As many have said, legislation will only force the shooter to create a plan that works around legal restrictions, not deter the attack. The only legislation I support is all firearm sales must go through a FFL holder. Still, I believe this will do nothing for our societal problem of mass shootings.

Now to really adress the problem requires us to step back and actually look at the situation we have in this country. Minimum wage must be raised. This will ruin small business owners. Capital gains must be taxed to the point where it is no longer viable to do anything but reinvest into an actual production based economy. This will cripple our positions internationally, as we are the go to place for the worlds money, and our standing in other countries relies largely on this. I could go on but I think you see where I am going with this. Economics.

As for mental health, ignoring the ill effects of growing wealth disparity and lowered standards of living, that may be even more complicated. We have to ask ouselves who we are as a culture? Our so driven to suceed that we must live in near serfdom and use drugs to repeat the process everyday, whether prescription or otherwise? Or is it even a choice? Or does our nations collective addiction simply hedonism? Do these disgrunteled kids have anything to do with the breakdown of the family unit as more and more adults of working age are forced into the working world? Our ideas of success and competition so farked up that we are not respecting the faults and failures of the ones we love?

Could it be that America was never the utopia we have thought it was and instead was just resting on its laurals after the largest economic expansion in world history? An expansion that itself was an unsustainable bubble created by the western empires' colonial wealth redistribution of the past two centuries?

The point of all that rambling is to shine a light on the fact that America, and indeed the world, is in an extreme state of flux right now, and any number of things can make someone "snap". No method of prediction can stop it, and guns are too prolifent here to believe that you can remove them completely from our society. It would take years to even try.

So, once again in closing, the only way to stop these shootings in the immediate future is a gun. Right then. Right there.
 
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